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Language: en
hey everybody Welcome today we are
talking about Donald Trump on The Joe
Rogan Experience there was weaving whale
psychology whoopy Goldberg some 2020
election denial paperwork that we're
going to get someday and an angle on
Trump as your funny uncle who has those
crazy stories about the time he compared
nuclear arsenals with an unhinged
dictator all right welcome everybody
take it away Drew what was it like for
you it was a ride um the funny uncle
thing lay in with me because the I was I
found myself laughing more than I found
myself educated about his actual policy
and I felt like he tricked me I don't
know if you felt that way I didn't feel
like he tricked me but this was
definitely Rogan as a conversationalist
and look I make no qualms about the fact
Rogan is the goat and on this I went
into it thinking that we might get that
Rogan who pushes and who really pins
people down won't let them walk away
it's like whoa whoa whoa you said this
let's get into it and I think because
it's so such a heavy political thing he
went hard in the opposite direction and
so I mean fair enough he needs to do the
interview that he wants to do um but I
would have loved to have seen the more
hardcore Rogan come out at some point I
think that would have been awesome
absolutely and I I immediately go back
to the Terrence Howard uh episode where
Terrence had PowerPoint presentations
PDFs live models then he brought Eric wi
sign on and they were going at it too
and it's like in that interview I've
seen more policy and debate and and this
interview he was just yeah I paid off
the debt yeah if George Washington and
Abraham Lincoln teamed up they couldn't
beat me like it would in I was like what
in his defense he said somebody else
said that to him but I did love that he
was using that as a bit of credibility
so yeah it oh man it's tough as an
interviewer you really have to decide
what am I trying to do with this
interview and if you're running a debate
you're going to get a lot of NOS there's
no way he's going to get Trump on to
come on if this is going to be basically
him and other experts let's say on the
economy debating whether Trump did or
didn't do something he probably would
have done it if it was him and um kamla
maybe I guess because he turned down the
other debate so I won't say that for
sure he would do that but that might
have had some juice but um Rogan said
look I want to talk to these guys like
they're normal people he still wants to
get kamla on and I would love to see
that for a balance perspective just see
her come on and and because the one
thing that I really did like about this
is the more I dig into Trump and crazy
things that he said when he didn't even
realize that he was being recorded he
sounds exactly like he sounds when he
knows he's being recorded So to me I
think Trump is really very transparent
there's kayf which we talked about last
time for sure there's posturing for sure
but I think the right way to read Trump
is this is a guy that has a hardcore
frame of reference he sees the world
through his lens I think he believes the
things that he says but he is so good at
framing things in a way that makes him
sound good M that if you're on his team
he just gives you everything you need to
repeat to make him sound awesome and if
you think he's out of his mind then he
just sounds like uh somebody who's full
of um hyperbole uh he's just totally why
would you bragado doio I'm not sure what
the right way to say that phrase is but
like he's just bragging all the time
he's big uping himself as the Brits
would say and so that's what you see a
lot in this in this interview the first
claim that we have to talk about is a
2020 stolen election and while I
appreciate how we answered the question
in the sense that he wasn't saying the
voting machines were broken but he added
in the suppression of the hunter bider
ltop Story how some of the legislative
laws around voting were changed very
conveniently and some of this law fair
that we're even seeing now in this in
this election cycle so it wasn't
necessarily they cheated look at what
they did but how it was a coordinated
attack through multiple points and that
was the time where Rogan kind of pushed
him like what do you mean will you show
me these doents like get to the this
this is where he started weaving so um
what really bothered me about that is I
think the election really does for
people that are divided they're divided
largely over is Trump actually going to
become a dictator or not is this
posturing or is he actually going to
become this unhinged guy who just you
let me have a dry run on January 6th I
learned my lesson I know what I need to
do better now and I'm going to get it
right this time and I am going going to
break democracy forever we're never
going to have another election again
that's really what's going on and if
Trump is going to ask people to believe
that the election was stolen he has got
to come with receipts and the fact that
in this interview he said look how about
we do this another time and I'll bring
like all these documents so many
documents you won't believe it and look
I'm somebody that is right now most
likely voting for Trum unless something
changes I'm voting for Trump and even
was like bro like that's crazy that
makes you sound absolutely terrible and
you have to understand that if if you
have the receipts lay them out
systematically go through them one by
one don't make big promises like you're
getting on the biggest podcast in the
world this is your shot and the fact
that he said uh we'll do it another time
it's like dude we're nine days out from
the election this is never going to
happen so it's clearly an election Ploy
and so I would much rather see him just
let go of that like it it is what it is
the 2020 election played out the way
that it played out we're back now this
is about moving forward this is about
doing what you know I believe is right
for the country if he had even that
little modom of uh presidential language
of wanting to unite people of moving
forward accepting defeat being gracious
talking about what we need to do is
Safeguard our elections then it's like
you just chip away at those things that
people use to discredit him but he gives
people all of these ways like that that
is going to be played on a loop on a
loop on a loop for people trying to take
him down that he's just weaving as he
said to get away from and the entire 30
three- hour interview they're going to
take that 30 seconds and say see this is
what we mean but to somebody who just
admitted that if the election was
tomorrow you are leaning Trump how do
you Rectify that quote unquote fear of
him being dictator on day one do you
think he has it like how are you
reconciling that emotion that fear to
say you know what that's I still want to
actually commit that vote toward in that
direction so to me it comes down to what
is going to be better for the country
and so I look at him and I think that he
has the right instincts from an economic
standpoint to move the country in a
better Direction than when I look at
kamla Harris I also have when when I
think about what are the big fears that
drive me there really are too the
economy because ultimately it people
feel good when the economy is growing
when their wages are growing that makes
such a difference there may not be much
else when it comes to the emotional
well-being of the nation as a whole
obviously individually it's a different
story but when you look at the nation as
a whole when people are making more
money when their kids are likely to do
better than they did like everything
just feels good and when the opposite is
true everything just feels bad so that's
a huge thing for me yeah and then
ironically because everybody thinks
thinks that Trump is going to become a
dictator if they dislike him uh tyranny
is the other thing that for me is is
Absol absolutely terrifying and when
I've talked about this endlessly and I
will keep talking about it until
everybody that can hear my voice has
read these three books but Ma the
unknown unknown story The gulg
archipelago and the rise and fall of the
Third Reich paint a story of recent
memory of how badly things go when
people rule from the top down and what I
hear with KLA Harris's language it is
all a bureaucratic blob I don't even
know that she has her own company of
what she believes like Trump is as far
as I can tell is completely transparent
so if you think he's a lunatic believe
him because he's just saying what he
thinks uh whereas she has changed like
wholesale cloth I think following where
she thinks the country is going I don't
think she has this like hardcore thing
that she believes that she's going to
push forward and she's talking about
things like price controls dude every
alarm Bell I have goes off when people
talk about price controls when they talk
about um companies gouging it's like
that is not where you're concerned
should be all the free money stuff it's
just all of that really makes me deeply
concerned and then of course the thing
I've talked about many many times before
is the fact that she wants to tax
unrealized gains that that is just
Financial illiteracy so you have
financially illiterate changes with the
wind and likes top
down like it becomes not me moving
towards Trump because I could make a
very compelling case about all the
things about him that make me nervous
it's more that I'm moving away from that
the the tyranny of a blob that has
authoritarian tendencies that that is
the thing that ultimately freaks me out
copy so if I could just kind of
summarize that in one sentence it's the
rhetoric that Trump uses while it might
be divisive you think is more kayfabe
whereas kamla
is endorsing policies that historically
directly lead to tyranny so I would
rather take somebody who might say
something off-handed but then doesn't
have the policy backing to make that
happen versus on the other side somebody
who's backing policies that always lead
to not quite because I think that I
think Trump does have the policy
instincts to reduce the amount of
Regulation to reduce the talking
specifically about like the dictator on
day one like some of the rhetoric that
we call devices I I have not heard
anything that people are quoting him as
saying that when you listen to you're
like yeah he actually said that
everything I've ever heard I'm like he
was either talking about something else
bloodbath he was clearly talking in the
he's talking about the automotive
industry and the phrase bloodbath is a
common phrase it does not mean there are
actually going to be people shot and
dying in the streets yeah that one was
super clear to me uh there's good people
on both sides same thing they're still
pumping that narrative um so him saying
that he's going to be a dictator for a
day he's joking he's being hyperbolic
that's why I think the one good thing to
come out of that just being a true
conversation versus an interview where
is digging deep is that you can see just
the personality of trump you can see one
that he will talk out of both sides of
his mouth crooked Hillary uh Comey dter
Dirty by saying oh this horrible thing
but she didn't really do it this
horrible thing but you know we find
there's nothing there but he called her
crooked Hillary and I could have put her
away and they had so much on her all
while saying Comey shouldn't have been
tying her to those things so he
definitely talks out of both sides of
his mouth he definitely tries to make
himself look good he uh talks very
hyperbolic like he said oh I think I
should be a whale psychologist people
are going to clip that out of context he
was obviously kidding so it's like he as
somebody who I have been clipped out of
context and I am easy to make look crazy
I know what they're doing with him so
that stuff I totally put to the side now
what I do take seriously is his frame of
reference is that he's essentially
always right and once he believes
something it is very hard to pierce his
frame of reference and so what you are
trusting is that he has the right
instincts already now seeing the team
that he's putting around him he's at
least saying okay these people align
with where I'm headed so you've got the
make America healthy again huge
proponent of that uh you've got the
fears around the Deep state I'm a huge
proponent of that you've got Elon Musk
talking about regulatory burden Free
Speech huge proponents of that stuff so
judging by the people that he's
surrounding himself by I think that he
has the better instincts of the two and
I've had four years with him already so
I know what I'm going to get um but
that's my read is there really are the
bad things that you can point to on his
side like you don't have to make them up
and people keep making it up copy that
and that is you made a you brought up a
good point that through this interview
his personality shined through and some
of the things that the media has ran
with are more personality traits my
example is when he says when Joe asks
him how do you say in such good shape
and he's like um do you think it's Golf
and Trump was like no it's genetics and
it's hilarious because he's overweight
he's a little bit bigger like he's not a
6'4 bodybuilder but the fact that he can
say that with a straight face and keep
talking is like oh okay you're one of
those guys let's run a thought
experiment for a second let's say Trump
gets in we have four years of him what's
your approach what's your first reaction
walk us through you just see Trump crack
270 on the Electoral College like how do
you feel what do you think is happening
next yeah so I think this is a really
important idea that people should do now
is Project into a future where kamla
Harris won Project into a future where
Donald Trump won it's going to reveal
what your actual gut level reaction is
for me if KLA Harris wins I immediately
go to okay the economy is my big concern
uh freedom of speech is my big concern
the attacks on the founding documents
those are my big concerns but I I don't
want a preemptive strike like if they're
if they're not actually doing it if
they're not pursuing it if they're not
trying to chip away or if gridlock is
working and things are going well I want
obviously want to make sure that my
voice is heard and I have a platform and
I'll speak um but at the end of the day
it's those are going to be the things
that I am concerned about those are
going to be the areas that I'll put my
attention into I'm certainly not going
to be like the election was stolen and
all of that whatever if it's really
really close let it play out in the
normal way through the court system if
Trump wins now I'm thinking okay uh I
want to make sure that he isn't going
unhinged I want to make sure that there
are checks and balances I want to make
sure that I am correct that he is going
to govern like a moderate in the the way
he did in the first um goor round with
him and that January 6th was not some uh
tip of this crazy leaf that he's turned
over and now he's just going to gobble
up power and he uh tried this coup that
it didn't work but like I always teach
people you learn from your failures and
you know that he's putting his head down
and figuring out okay what do I need to
do and so
then if you start seeing on either side
that this is really going in a dark
Direction then you respond accordingly
but at that point it's going to be
cooler heads need to Prevail and look
not to I don't want to be hyperbolic
about this but that's why we have the
Second Amendment you've got freedom of
speech if people are trying to take that
away then you've got recourse but what I
worry about is that when people run the
thought of experiment of either Trump
gets elected or KLA gets elected
depending on what side of the fence
you're on that you want to do a
preemptive strike that that brings out
this like attack dog in you that you
want to charge forward um that makes me
nervous and so I can feel everybody sort
of couching language about you know if
the election is free and fair you
certainly hear Trump saying it um and I
don't want people leaning into that that
I think would be the only
mistake I was that's a very good point I
was having a conversation with my
roommate yesterday and we were talking
about the election and the fear that's
kind of surrounding politics and to me
it feels like everybody is worried about
a zombie apocalypse in some distant
future but nobody's paying attention to
the giant 100 foot hole in the middle of
our living room and everybody what do
you see as the giant
hole the law fair that's happening in
elections right now the fact that we're
having free and fair politics but RFK
was getting sued in every state that he
was on the ballot that he rightfully
gained signatures for there trying to
come and make an as trick about his
residency making him invalid uh the
primary process being kind of sped
through where the back door delegates
was like oh well she was on the ticket
with Biden four years ago she's good we
don't need to challenge her um and on
the very same Vein on the Republican
side where Nikki Haley was talking to
four empty stools because nobody else
showed up but then she got 10% of the
vote Donald Trump got 90 and that was
that was it and to me there there's
this one the fact that this is a billion
dollar presidential election is crazy to
me and I'm not one of those people that
that should have gone to the homeless
kids or nothing like that but it's
ridiculous that we are okay with this
level of politics this level of money
inside of politics full stop first and
foremost second these auxiliary lawfare
this is a great example like I don't
know if you've been on this Mormon wave
that's happening and I promise you the
the Mormon wave like there's these
Mormon reality shows I promise I'm
landing the
plane I've heard about soaking that's
all I know so
well they don't drink and they don't
smoke because it's against the law and
bad for the religion and it makes up
messes up your closeness with God it's
not against the law right just against
like more exactly but then on the flip
side there's like soda bars that they
freaking all the time and they drink
like 50 ounces of soda every day so it's
like they trans they don't drink alcohol
because it's a Al it's addiction and
they don't want to do that but they
drink soda every day and that's their
addiction so this is kind of like it's
the same action but because this is this
looks this way it's okay where this
looks that way it's bad and I relate
that to politics in the sense that we're
already corroding we already have so
many things that need to be fixed so
whether you're a comma person or a trump
person and I'm voting third party
because I need that 5% so that way they
can actually be properly funded um so
that's my protest vote but I I really
feel like we need to fix this cycle and
it's not just Dominion voting boost and
it's not just mailing ballots but we
really need to look at like elections in
general and say okay somebody giving a
million dollars a day is kind of weird
somebody raising a billion dollars in 2
weeks is kind of weird as well like we
need to re focus our priorities on
something more
productive and and fruitful from the
election process I I'm off my soap box
but that just kind of got me activated
just now no man I love it so here is
what I think is the reality that all of
these things move in cycles and there's
no way to not be in the part of the
cycle that you're in and this is all
tied to debt and I know that people are
going to think that's overly simplistic
but I don't think it is I think that the
way all of this goes is what ends up
happening in the beginning everything is
fresh and new uh there's only
opportunity and if you are the reserve
currency of so much power and you get
into that I mean this is everything goes
back and back and back and back and back
forever and ever and ever I believe we
live in a deterministic universe so take
that with a grain of salt but this is
literally billiard bals bouncing around
so let's just clock it from the end of
World War II end of World War II we
become the reserve currency uh we're the
only major power that didn't get bombed
into Smith arines in the western world
and so now we step into this incredibly
formidable position where a lot of
people owe us money and we're still in
great shape we're the strongest economy
in the world all of a sudden and now we
get to grow and we start growing we have
the baby boom everything is just going
phenomenally well and then for a whole
host of reasons that are outside of the
scope of today's podcast um the breaks
end up falling off we end up going off
of the gold standard which I think was a
catastrophic error that you can debate
with people about whether you need an
inflationary economy or whether uh
deflation is good or bad anyway set that
aside but looking at the way that these
debt Cycles go you just start
accumulating a ton of debt and the only
way to pay down the interest on that
debt is to print money printing money is
stealing you're stealing money from
people and all of a sudden they can't
get ahead and this is why you've got the
w ETF happened in 1971 this is when the
whole process begins to break down and
now all of a sudden you can't save your
way into a retirement you have to gamble
your way into a retirement because you
have to beat inflation and so now all
this money is pouring into the stock
market some of that is for sure the
creation of amazing companies I do not
want people to think that I think that
the stock market is fake the stock
market is not fake but when you look at
it right now you've got like seven
companies less than 10 companies that
carry the vast majority of what's going
on and with AI we're still in the
speculative phase so even though I'm big
hyped on AI you have to be honest that a
lot of what's going on in the companies
that are getting a lot of love like
Nvidia around AI maybe it pays off maybe
it doesn't maybe they're you know over
indexing maybe they're not but we'll see
like that still has to play out but
what's really happening is the value of
the dollar is declining and so when you
have property like a house the house
isn't actually going up in value unless
you're suddenly finding yourself in like
Austin where suddenly everybody's
pouring into that state and there's
legitimately more demand than there is
Supply and then the property values are
actually going up and they're outpacing
inflation but for the most part even
something like property is you're
essentially taking out a um insurance
policy against inflation you're saying
I'm going to pay into this house to
upkeep it pay my property taxes all that
to make sure that the value of the
property keeps up inflation so when I'm
old or when I die that I've now got a
savings account essentially MH and so as
all of this is happening it's deranging
culture and so Ray alio says that
there's six stages of that debt cycle
and Stage six is absolute collapse he
pegs us at being at Phase 5.5 and so we
are at the end stage where now
everybody's fighting over what feels
like a limited Pi because that growth
isn't happening anymore and so all of a
sudden it's like wait a second our kids
are going to do worse than us
financially our kids have less money in
their 20s than we had and dude life
expectancy is going down and when you
look at why it's death of Despair for
males it's absolutely bananas and so all
this like crazy stuff becomes the the
gunk and the gears of the Machinery that
is society and so you can just feel us
bogging down in the west and so we're
like ah fighting at each other's throats
and the energy is going to transfer
somewhere else and the question becomes
where is the energy going to transfer to
is it going to go to South America is it
going to go to the Middle East now I
think think the only 5.5 play is to
assume that you can reverse it I don't
think you can give up I don't think that
makes any sense and so you have to act
as if you can be the first generation
that reverses the trend but when I
really am sitting there all alone at
night man I'm like I have a feeling that
you just ride the phase that you're
given man uh that got dark that got dark
you did it so here's the thing and this
is why
okay so one act as if act as if these
things can change act as if we can pull
each other back to the middle act as if
you can get people to um let go of all
the negativity act as if the Next
Generation if you raise them right and
you educate them and you create
opportunity for them that they will let
go of some of the anger and bitterness
that we see certainly in Millennials
younger Millennials especially like
there's just res
act as if we can let go of that and move
towards something more beautiful it does
not make the only thing you're going to
do is accelerate the negativity if you
lean into it so I think people have to
act as if but I am not a kayfabe fan so
I don't ever want to fake what is
actually going on inside my head and I
know that drives people crazy because
I'll have these um headlines and
thumbnails that are like you have to
worry about this thing but like when you
actually get into the content I'm like
all right look everything we're going to
find a path
even if I'm worried that we
won't there is a lesson that we can all
learn from race car driving which is if
you want to avoid hitting the wall look
down into the turn where you want to go
don't look at the wall the second you
look at the wall you crash into the wall
so you're going to go wherever your
focus is so if we focus on all the
things that are falling apart instead of
because you have to know they're there
instead of the solutions you've got a
problem so I'm not saying don't address
those I think you're right hey there's a
gigantic hole in our living room okay
awesome but now let's talk about what
are the solutions that we're going to do
to address that this is a big part of
why I don't want to see people do these
preemptive strikes it's like what's the
policy don't worry about ruining the
other team what are the policies that
you want to see them adopt how can you
work with them this is one of the things
I actually like about
Trump he'll walk into Kim jong-un's
layer I don't know what they what do
they
have what is c is Palace is whatever I
think layer is the right word uh and
he'll joke around with him you know like
you've got a red button but I've got one
and mine's even bigger than yours
um you have to deal with that thing and
actually come up with a solution and so
him joking and building a relationship
these are the steps that you can make to
say okay how do we find a path forward
instead of just saying uh it's called
thus CD's trap where you've got these
two great powers that are just rushing
headlong towards each other because one
is rising and one is declining and they
just end up smashing into each other so
Trump I think has a personality that
could actually avoid that because he's
done business for so long in New York
bro you got to deal with the mafia and
so it's I'm not saying the mafia as like
today I'm just saying coming up in the
80s I cannot imagine that doing real
estate in the 80s and he was in Atlantic
City he definitely dealt with the m yeah
facts so
um that's where I think if you have a
solution oriented mindset you deal with
the world the way that it is not the way
that you wish it would be that you can
actually find Solutions but if you're
not willing to put everything out on the
table and look at where we actually then
you never going to find a path forward
so I want to know we're in Phase 5.5 but
then I don't want to stare at the wall I
want to look at the solutions and
actually chart a course forward I love
that all right you made me feel better
thank you I might be able now we
actually have to find the the course and
we have to stop people from fighting
because what I worry about is that both
sides are in a preemptive strike
mentality and both are going to cry foul
both are going to freak out no matter
what happens uh and that I worry about
that 100% And the media already kind of
picking sides I don't think helps either
because everybody's going to go to their
respective bubbles to watch the results
and depending on what you're watching
it's going to be a great day or a bad
day and yeah like you said after that it
could derange really fast yeah and I
think so uh um let me know how naive
this is in fact I don't need to be naive
what do I know about
people okay so when half of us our team
isn't going to lose sorry half of us our
team isn't going to
win and in that moment now it's got to
be okay cool so we have the other side
is in power how do we work together to
be persuasive how do we make sure that
we get our agenda done even that makes
me feel expansive versus thinking like
oh my God they're going to run into the
ground
uh KLA Harris is going to be it's going
to be she's the face of the blob that's
going to take me into tyranny it's like
I don't want to allow my mind to go in
that direction so if people can want
good things for each other you've got a
chance but if people hunker down and are
just bitter about losing we're in
trouble we shall see nine days away all
right lightning round I got a couple
things for you you ready ready what's
your funniest moment of the interview uh
when Trump was talking about Kim junun
and comparing the size of their nuclear
Arsenal I know that's dark that is like
straight out of uh how I learned to stop
worrying and love the bomb Doctor
Strange Love but it it was Darkly
hilarious this one's a two-parter
okay November 6 happens November 5th the
election happens a week later do you see
violence
happening I am legitimately concerned
yes I've always had sort of a 2020
vision of pockets of protesting that's
mostly peaceful Happy on the flip side
of that are you in generally are you in
general politically optimistic I do feel
like this is a new awaking there's a lot
of eyes on politics right now do you see
a political hope in the
future if I want to continue to earn my
own respect I will constantly find an
optimistic option to move forward that
doesn't mean being polyana is you need
to look at the way things really are um
but I don't want to be even if I'm
really worried we're headed in the right
direction you've got to find something
to move towards not just something to
move away from that'll be very important
to me nice who do you think
wins if the election is today it seems
like Trump has more energy so my gut
instinct is that it's going to be
ridiculously close which is the one
thing I don't want uh but that Trump
wins who is the next
superpower oh very clearly China that's
the only people that are in contention
with us there is nobody else not even
close Russia is a a regional power but
on the world stage there's only the US
and China nobody else has a big enough
economy I thought there was more like
bubbling but I guess that's a really
good point not in
close does China overtake the US in the
next five years man that's interesting
they've really falling off the radar
because we're so focused on the election
I'll be very keen to get people talking
about that again because um I don't know
what to believe about the state of their
economy if their economy is as bad as
some people are saying that could delay
them a very long time and it'll be
interesting to see how they get out of
that um but I would never underestimate
China those guys are not for play uh so
I think that China has they're they're a
pure competitor and so if we are not
very very strategic and what we do with
our economy yes they will overtake us at
at on certain levels I think they
already have overtaken us so um yeah
they're not they're not to be taken
lightly copy that all right that's all I
got there we go all right everybody
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