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Language: en
talk to me about what's going on at the
border that is uh that one's out of left
field it's pretty wild it's pretty wild
and the fact that it is simultaneously
an undeniable fact I mean you could go
visit it right and you could see it and
it's a it's a
mystery why would
anybody allow this to happen it it
violates all sorts of things that we all
thought were Beyond even needing to be
discussed right and they has to control
its borders that's part
of anyway you asked what's taking place
you want me just to describe what I saw
so um my son and I Zach went uh to
Panama and we traveled to the province
of Darion to the edge of the Darion Gap
actually we went into the Darion Gap um
but we traveled by car to the edge of
it uh the Darian Gap is a broken it's a
section of the Pan-American Highway that
has never been built the Pan-American
Highway runs from prudo Bay Alaska to
the southern tip of South America whoa
you can drive the whole way except for
the 60-mile stretch at the border
between Colombia and
Panama um what is there is a
Wilderness um there's a national park
and it is a extremely a famously
difficult stretch of land to
cross there are currently thousands of
people thousands a day being beckoned
across the Darian Gap largely by the
International Community which is
facilitating this massive migration MH
um some of the people who are migrating
are South Americans there's a lot of
people from Venezuela fleeing uh
economic collapse there um but there are
a lot of people coming from around the
world they fly fly into keto Ecuador the
reason they fly into Ecuador is that
there's no Visa requirement so they can
land in Ecuador without a Visa they can
move Overland uh into Colombia and they
can cross the Daran Gap into Panama so
what we saw was on the Panama side we
saw what I came to understand as two
distinct phenomena there's one massive
migration lots of South Americans lots
of people from elsewhere in the world
from the Middle East
uh
Yemen um people from
Haiti uh the they are housed in
encampments that
are um built in settlements that exist
in Darian already so people are walking
out of the Jungle they are walking into
these little towns that exist on the
edge of the Jungle these towns have had
refugee camps built up by the
International Community so the
panamanians aren't happy to have this
massive migration moving through uh
their habitat but they have no control
over it how's that possible well the
Panamanian border is supposed to be
controlled by the ca front which is the
Panamanian border Authority it's a is it
a separate entity yeah it's
a military police entity that is charged
with uh controlling the frontier and
they don't answer to the penam
government no they do oh they absolutely
do they're part of the Panamanian
government got it so then Panama could
stop this well see this is the thing we
as little people don't understand
international relations could Panama
technically stop it yes they could
technically stop it but what would
happen to Panama if they did presumably
explains why they don't so the
panamanians are not in a position to
override what ever it is that wants this
migration to happen how much of Panama's
stance is public or and how are you
inferring um that is a good question let
us put it this way the discussion of the
migration is not nearly as uh
substantial as you would
expect and in large measure what is
happening is the migrants are being
shunted North as quickly as possible
that from Panama's perspective the best
thing to do is to get these people on
their way where they don't become a
burden to Panama and so they are being
they are being shuttled through Panama
into Costa Rica and through all of the
countries up into North America all of
the Central American countries are
participating in facilitating this
migration for reasons that are not clear
um but I said that I come to understand
this two separate phenomena one of them
is this migration of people who when you
talk to them and we found many migrants
were forthcoming about both the trials
that they had suffered in the
jungle uh which are terrifying almost
all of them had been robbed uh young
women
were uh routinely
raped um people walk out of the Jungle
without their children children walk out
of the Jungle without their parents it's
humanitarian disaster yeah the Darian
Gap is um a very difficult piece of
habitat to Traverse if you know what
you're
doing these people do not they've been
induced to try to cross uh the Gap with
no understanding of how to equip
themselves or what they're actually
going to face there and uh you know it's
the kind of habitat where you can slide
hide down a muddy Hill and break your
leg and that can kill you because it
prevents you from getting out um so it
it takes accidents and greatly enhances
their
lethality um but you've got this
migration all of the migrants who will
speak to us are economic migrants
they're all very clear about this which
means they're not eligible for political
asylum in the US though that is uh the
basis on which they are crossing our
Southern border but there's another
migration which is housed separately
which I found very
surprising um it is a migration that is
almost entirely
Chinese is
predominantly young men whether the fact
that they are of military age is
Meaningful or not is impossible to say
but what I can say is that unlike all of
the other migrants that we encountered
who were surprisingly open about talking
about what they were doing and where
they were headed and what had motivated
them to go the Chinese migrants who were
housed separately by the panamanians
they're housed in places that are not
towns interestingly they're housed
there's a camp called s Vicente which
secretary my orcus visited when he was
in Panama right before it was expanded
greatly um but the Chinese who are
moving through the San vente
Camp
are unwilling to
talk they give off a hostile
air and it's not clear to me why this
should be the case if they were for
example fleeing oppression at the hands
of the Chinese Communist party you would
expect them to be at least curious about
citizens of this country that they were
apparently going to start a new life in
that would be a natural thing and even
if they were afraid to talk because they
were afraid of what might happen uh if
word got back you would not get a
hostile sense you would get a sense that
they were uh conflicted or trapped and
couldn't couldn't talk but that was not
at all the impression they left the
impression they left was one of
hostility and
mockery and it
was decidedly
disturbing so I began to think of this
as an invasion moving in parallel and
being cloaked by a migration the
migration is real the migration is
alarming in its own right it is a
humanitarian disaster at the level of
what is happening to the people doing
the migrating and it is very definitely
being encouraged and facilitated by the
International Community which appears to
have the idea that migration is
inherently a good thing now I don't know
how anyone could possibly be that
confused but this is visible if you look
at the web pages of the organizations
that are doing the facilitating they say
this that Migra it is their mission to
induce migration they believe that
migration is
positive but that migration is cloaking
something else I can't say exactly what
that something else is but it would be
irresponsible not to consider the
possibility that it is um an
international
competitor taking advantage of our open
border uh
to arrange some kind of harm that will
be more easily orchestrated that way
than it would be on a battlefield okay I
know you tell your kids that um when
they have a hypothesis they need to
assign a percentage likelihood that it's
accurate what percentage likelihood of
accuracy do you give the invasion
hypothesis so let's be clear on what
that hypothesis is if that hypothesis is
that the Chinese Communist party is
sending people across our Southern
border with the intent to do harm to the
United States I would
say 60%
whoa okay um now there are lots of other
possibilities uh you know
does
spying fall under that hypothesis no I
don't think that is specifically to do
harm so so you think it's more than
spying so there's the 60% is like
proper
harm you know here's the thing I know
how crazy that sounds and well my my
final question will be around that like
so one of the early questions I asked
you was is there ever hypothesis so far
out that it's better not to even float
it out we've already had that
conversation um the what I want to
understand that with this is what
happened that gave you that much
confidence because I agree with you that
this is on the table as one of the
things that it very well could be and I
don't think you just said this but I've
heard you say this before which is
really powerful if you believe that
there is some element of financial
corruption in our system which I think
everybody agrees there's a lot of money
in our system whether we call it
corruption or not is almost a moot point
that there's a ton of money in our
politics money moves the needle here if
people know that from the outside would
they not leverage that to get what they
want so that could be paying a ton of
money to ensure that the migrants are
allowed in the country um but what I
want want to know is this is such a high
degree of certainty from somebody I
consider so cautious in their thinking
um but this falls into that bucket that
you're playing with more and more as you
got battered through the covid situation
it felt to me like you got I don't know
if frustrated or angry but you started
like making Bolder claims Bolder claims
and this one is the one help me
understand what are the building blocks
that make it up so we know they had
their own migration going in they didn't
act in the way that you expected them to
act they were hostile well first of all
let me say this is part of why I decided
I had to go in
person because had you already been
hearing this before you yeah the the
folks
who um who showed Zach and me this
migration had been sending materials for
better part of a year so I was quite
aware of what I was like to see but it
made no sense and frankly I talked
almost not at all about it because I did
not want to find
myself broadcasting things that turned
out not to be what had been represented
to me I was very cautious about it and I
you know it was hard to justify going
it's not an especially safe place to
go um what was I going to see that I
couldn't deduce from a video but I was
very glad glad that I did go because the
physical relationship between these two
different
migrations and most
importantly
the
the approach that the migrants in the
Chinese C uh Camp had to us was
unmistakable it was hostile now why was
it hostile
it's hard to so part of the reason that
you find that number as high as you find
it is that given what I saw it is hard
to come up with other explanations for
it right were these people
fleeing
oppression that was inconsistent with
the way they dealt with us it did not
feel right now can I convey that to you
in a way that you would
have uh a degree of certainty about it
not really you know I don't think you
know me well enough to know what it
would take to trigger that circuit for
me um but here's the other
question we have a southern border that
is effectively open yep we are not doing
even the most basic due diligence with
respect to establishing who is crossing
that border and
why given that do you believe that our
antagonists abroad will take advantage
of that fact
I find that almost
certain yes so um I find the hypothesis
compelling but I thought you were going
to say like 7 to 10% um so let me lay
out the part where you and I agree and
then as the person that's just armchair
quarterbacking it I'll give you sort of
my take knowing I haven't been there and
so I really I'm just pulling the [ __ ]
out of my ass but uh
so I heard from enough analysts of China
that the Chinese diaspora is a very
meaningful thing and that some
percentage of the people in the Chinese
diaspora really view themselves still as
Chinese regardless of where they live
now this is just analysts that I've
heard speak this is not me forming a
firsthand account so I know that this is
part of my distortion on my lenses this
is not I don't trust this but in terms
of hypothesis being very unsure but it's
an interesting guess that warrants
exploration
so to your point uh governments are
going to do what they can to get a leg
up we are in a pure competitor
relationship with China uh China has
every reason to want to know more about
what we're doing as we have every reason
to want to know what China's doing
now breaking from that I will say it is
very possible that China is in a pretty
rough economic situation right now if
the housing issue there is as big as
some pundits are making it out to be
again no firsthand knowledge don't know
but certainly interesting I could see
not being of that culture missing cues
misreading cues so that they seem
hostile or whatever again they could be
throwing things at you spitting I don't
know but uh that'd be pretty tough to
misread but if it were more of just a
body language refusal to interact
scowling that kind of thing um then well
well beyond that okay um give me the
craziest thing they did well I don't
know that any of it was crazy but
uh we attempted to interact with several
different groups at the San Vicente
Camp uh one
gentleman attempted to mislead us into
believing that he was
Korean
and uh Micha Leon who took us to
Daran who has spent time in China um red
him up and revealed that this was a
deception at which point there was
laughter amongst the group
who uh had witnessed this attempted
deception and then following that there
was no willingness to talk about the
reality it wasn't that this had been a
practical joke on you know some naive
foreigners and that that broke the ice
right this was a deception that was
exposed and it led nowhere I also
believe that we
were um monitored in the camp so there
was a particular guy I was watching who
repositioned himself as we moved to
different places in order to witness
what was taking place there and I
believe he was keeping tabs on us I
don't know why that would be didn't
strike me
as uh a normal behavior for somebody who
is you know involved in a major
migration to a new Homeland it still
feels qualitative though so we have
qualitative feedback because I can so
you don't know this about me but my
background is actually writing so I
often ask myself If This Were a
character and I were writing them what
would have to be true for them to act
this way one could be I'm here as a spy
for sure or I'm here to do harm but
honestly if I'm coming to [ __ ] you up
the last thing I'm going to do is be
openly antagonistic I'm going to be
super friendly cuz I do not want you to
be queued into what I'm really doing but
if I have a dim view of Americans and
I've got some sense of I'm going to
America because I want
to bring my culture to another great
place and I want to spread the Chinese
diaspora and I have no idea what uh
inside of China they say about America
they could say lovely things I have no
idea but I know that like across Europe
it hasn't been a I came to England
because I want to embrace English values
it is in many cases is I've come to
England and I plan to stake my values
and I'm trying to bring as many people
over as I can so that we can really have
our own at least Pockets where our
culture is the culture and given that
America hopefully still has that Vibe of
like yeah we want diaspora people we
want people to come here and make this a
cooler place now I think that we have to
reckon with that because I don't think
you can bring this many people over at
once I think we're going to have
problems but like I still like the vibe
of the Statue of Liberty give me your
tired we huddled masses like I [ __ ]
love that Vibe anyway uh I can write a
bunch of backstories for these guys
where yes they're clowning on the idiot
Americans even though they're trying to
get to America now whether they're
fleeing China because China with my
archetype is not the kind of place I
would want to be or they're coming over
as an invasion I don't know the only
thing I would say is I can paint a lot
of scenarios where they
are probably still problematic from a
whole host of very nons Sinister nons
spyy reasons but it could also be
exactly what you're saying I just would
have again I have not been there so I've
not seen the things that you see so I'm
in the DMT position again of I haven't
met the little guy uh but it feels to me
with qualitative data that it
warrants a more cautious percentage well
the question is what would you think if
you had been there I don't and I might
be way more hardcore than you I might be
90% don't know nobody has any trouble
accepting
that uh China's building
weaponry and so the point is it's not
beyond our thought process to imagine
that somebody might be preparing for war
with
us but for some reason this bargain hey
their southern border is open
can we do anything with that is it worth
sending in you know maybe maybe the
decision to utilize them hasn't been
made but the ideas it would be a shame
not to take advantage of that open
border while it's still open and who
knows how long it will be do you have an
estimate of how many Chinese have
crossed I believe it's tens of thousands
whoa It's a lot okay for a second let's
just pretend that the dark scenario is
the true scenario which you've 60% I'm
like 7% but whatever do you think that
we're going to have a reckoning like if
you send tens of thousands of people
that still have allegiance to the
Homeland and the Homeland wants to do
you dirty I don't even like thinking
like this this is interesting this is
triggering some World War II Vibes in me
uh which I'm not loving but let's finish
the thought experiment I get your friend
hates that but uh do you think we have a
reckoning coming with a
potential problem where the call came
from inside the
house I
I don't understand why this is
even tough because it seems self-evident
that an enemy would want to do this
given a manifestly open Southern
border you don't think anybody's going
to notice that they can send people over
it and utilize I mean how many years did
we spend taking off our shoes in
airports right I mean and the the
the absurdity of you know if you come
across the border if you come home from
Central
America you will be monitored they will
know exactly who's crossing the border
at exactly what moment you're doing it
right it's a whole different situation
you will have scrutiny exerted in your
case and in another case there's no
scrutiny that that is a mystery to me
how did that happen when I ask obvious
questions
like we have a corrupt political system
it's pay for
playay what is to have stopped our
antagonists abroad from having purchased
influence with which to get us to harm
ourselves isn't that the obvious
bargain if they can do it well in a way
where I don't realize that's what the
money's for
I think it's something
good yeah I could for sure I see a lot
of really bad ideas get a lot of energy
not saying I think this has happened but
I it certainly fits the incentive model
I I think the the thing that I don't
understand is that we apparently
spend I don't know how many hundreds of
billions of dollars
on the intelligence Community to think
way outside of the box and figure out
how a very clever enemy could
possibly get inside our system and
compromise us and we've left the most
obvious mechanisms wide open and to talk
about the what my assessment is that the
most obvious loopholes are being
utilized you know is like well do you
have the evidence for
that the evidence that we have
antagonists abroad and that we we have
people who never sleep because they're
concerned that those enemies might get
the jump on
us that evidence
exists I don't know what the reason is
that the southern border is as open as
it is I don't know why the International
Community is encouraging migrants into
the Darion I don't know why the Chinese
are housed separately I don't know why
the
Chinese appear to be facilitated in
their migration by their government oh
but there there's one other thing I
wanted to mention to you and again this
goes back quite a number of years in
fact this is goes back enough years that
I had in fact forgotten it and it did
not come back up as I was looking at
this Chinese migration phenomenon in
Darion when the Chinese one child
policy was in full force I wrote a an
essay I was not a public figure I don't
know that anybody read the essay
but I wrote an essay about a
paradox there is a principle in
evolutionary biology that goes back to
Ronald fiser Ronald fiser realized
something important about sex ratios he
wasn't thinking about
humans and what he realized was that
although males and females differ
tremendously in how many offspring they
can produce in a lifetime that on
average given uh some very basic
assumptions on average they produce the
same number of Offspring and there is
therefore no advantage to producing
males over females or vice versa that is
to say a male might produce a thousand
times as many offspring as a female in a
given case but on average they produce
the same number so if there are too many
males you should produce females and if
there are too many females you should
produce males because you tend to
succeed better evolutionarily if you
produce the rare
sex now that logic should apply to
people and it should have applied to
China if you were a Chinese person and
you were going to only be able to have
one child and they were going to grow up
in a nation with an abundance of males
you should want to produce a female a
male might well not find a mate a female
would not only be all but certain to
find a mate but she would have her
choice because females would be in high
demand so why I wondered all of these
years ago did that not cause the Embrace
of the production of females why did the
Chinese continue to produce excess males
and what I came up with was the sobering
realization that there was another
evolutionary force that might well be in
play which is that in a world of lineage
versus lineage
competition that there might be a reason
to produce a generation with excess
males if you were preparing for
war that excess males actually are the
perfect substrate for lineage against
lineage violence because men who have no
reproductive prospects at home who are
sexually frustrated can be armed and
sent abroad with a desire to come back a
hero and that that would be a very
effective mechanism for picking up
territory the same process I described
you when we were talking about genocide
that if you wanted does that seem though
like it would be a it's the thing you do
when you find yourself a surplus males
it isn't the thing you set out to do
well I don't see I agree with you that
it would be unnatural if you happened to
end up with Surplus m
but I don't see any reason that you
wouldn't have an evolutionary tendency
to especially in a culture that is as
farsighted as the Chinese have been it's
interesting I will say that there might
be
other hypotheses that don't require them
to be so calculated which seems tough to
get your whole culture like all you're
doing is applying the pressure you only
have one child and the nation Builds an
army for you strikes me as well not
impossible strikes me as very unlikely I
also have a base assumption that could
be wrong but it's a base assumption in
my operating system that China's not
very imperialist so I think that people
will confuse their desire to get Taiwan
back with a and we want to go get more
like they're pretty like let the world
do what the world's going to do like yes
we want to be financially invested so
that everybody owes us one but we don't
want to take them over we don't want to
run their countries um but they they
want Taiwan back because that's part of
the original Vision so anyway if you've
got a nation that is not Imperial in
nature and they were literally worried
about people starving to death which is
why they said ah you can only have one
kid and so then you'll get a brief burst
of we want a mail because the that's how
you pass the lineage on that's how you
pass the cash on like just give me a boy
that's all I want I have a feeling that
if it had kept going on they would have
gone oh that was a really dumb strategy
I now I want to have girls because this
balance is all out of whack but because
they end up nipping that in the butt I
think in the 90s so it only runs for
like 20 years so you really only have
like one generation to be like oh
terrible idea now so if it had gone on
longer and they kept like making sure
that they were only having guys then I
might be a little bit more like okay
maybe
but yeah I mean I I hear what you're
saying um
and the problem is that the current
governance of China is a departure from
the historical true uh so anyway I find
it interesting that you have a violation
of a known evolutionary principle The
Balancing of sex ratios seems to me that
this would have been obvious to an
individual um that even if the society
viewed uh male children in a particular
way that you could
calculate that for your own lineage the
chances of your child finding a mate uh
suggested that actually it would be
clever to have girls so I don't know to
me it's an open question and the fact
that we have uh what looks like an
invasion uh from what looks like one of
our principal I I don't like the term
enemy but looks like a competitor
competitor antagonist abroad well one
thing that could be interesting again
hypothesis that I have no real reason to
believe is actually happening but is
worthy of exploration would be that this
is more of a Viking model where oh I
find myself with excess males
intentionally or otherwise and oh my
primary rival has an open Southern
border and uh the Chinese diaspora is
real so I know they will still feel a
pretty strong allegiance to the Homeland
let me send them over which probably
isn't a hateful idea oh man I can't
remember there was a guy that was made a
spy and uh he from Russia uh he was
actually East German but anyway gets um
recruited to be a spy in the west and he
was like oh the thought of like living
in America he's like they didn't have to
convince me I was totally here for it um
so I could see them being like no
authoritarian rule no uh social credit
score I'm here for it let's go well I
will say the scenario you laid out does
fit uh if if the scenario you laid out
was right then my
60% uh estimate is includes it right an
opportunistic invasion that does fit um
but I also wanted to point out that the
Chinese as much as they have a multi-
millennium history of effectively being
insular uh is engaged in what is called
the belt and Road initiative which is uh
an
expansive plan that uh looks you know
like a modern
Imperial you think that looks Imperial I
think it looks like I want you to owe me
one I don't want to be Imperial I do not
want to have to rule over you guys cuz
that [ __ ] is messy but boy oh boy do I
want to control your infrastructure do I
want you to have relationships with me
trade deal want to control the flow of
resources and labor to facilitate a
sinocentric future I'm not faulting all
the good without Chinese having to
govern you right I'm not fa ing the
Chinese for advocating for their own
wellbeing I do view much as I view our
government as not synonymous with our
population I see our government is in
large measure hostile to the well-being
of the citizens and I feel the same way
about the relationship of the Chinese
government to the Chinese people but
nonetheless if there is
any I don't fault the Chinese for uh
viewing the world in competitive terms
that's that's the adult way to to
recognize how things work um but I do
think we are being naive not at least
publicly entertaining the possibility
that our antagonists abroad would take
advantage of our uh lack of
security our famous lack of security uh
on our Southern border and the
international community's facilitation
of massive migration would be the
perfect cover for something that was not
collaborative
all right I have a nasty question I want
to ask about the 2024 election many
people think Trump is the rational
monster is he I don't think
so I I don't I don't want him to be
president because I don't think he has
the uh the time the temperament or the
team building skills to do the job that
is necessary but I do believe he is at
least a departure from the ruling cabal
which is clearly hostile to the
well-being of average people um that
said I believe there is only one
rational choice left to us in this
election and it is Bobby Kennedy Jr you
don't think that'll split the
vote I don't even know what to think
about that
question the Democratic Party appears to
be Fielding a candidate who was
too mentally decrepit for years ago to
be
elected to the
presidency running him again is so
Preposterous that it's not obvious to me
how any American can in good conscience
vote for Biden it is incon consistent
with
our constitutional republic that we have
a decrepit figurehead who is standing in
for a cabal whose names we don't know
people who are unelected cannot be
called in front of Congress and
questioned if we are attacked in the
night who takes the phone call and
decides whether we launch the nukes you
cannot have a person as far gone as Joe
Biden in that office that is a different
country so my feeling
is the Democratic party has an
obligation to field a reasonable
candidate before there is
any vote to split in the absence of that
every single rational American should be
fleeing the Democratic party in favor of
whatever makes the most sense and again
in my opinion there's really only
one plausible candidate for the job
running for the office how the one
plausible candidate running for the
office is a long shot I have not figured
out but here you have a guy who
has an encyclopedic knowledge of what
has just happened to us over the course
of the covid crisis he's the one guy
who's in a position to sort out the
implication of what took place so that
we can get a proper Reckoning and make
sure that doesn't happen again what's
more you have a guy who has a deep
understanding of the deep State and is
obviously willing to risk his life over
the question of how
to uh disengage it from governance so
that we can go back to being a
Democratic
Republic I also I personally know him I
like him a great deal I trust him and I
believe that um
his legal
knowledge and his
uh his wisdom the fact that this is
somebody I mean his personal familial
story is tied up in the exact trauma
that our nation has lived under since
1963 right to have the possibility of
putting him in that office to finally
move us past that chapter into
some uh renewed phase of American
strength to restore the consent of the
Govern seems to me like the obvious
thing to do we are lucky that we have
that option on the table and I can't
believe that we would in in the face of
that be embracing tired tropes like
spoiler and the lesser of two evils
right you those tropes make no sense in
an era where the DNC is Fielding Joe
Biden in his state of of uh disrepair it
just it's inconsistent with it we this
is an emergency and we we have somebody
that we can vote for who makes perfect
sense couldn't inhabit the office has
the skills has the temperament would
likely have eight years in which to get
the job done all of those things are
powerful arguments in favor of this
person and um I really hope people will
rethink their reflex of embrace of what
amounts to a a jersey color over reason
I've been apolitical my entire life uh
the system has worked well for me so
I've never um had a problem I've just
always been like I'm going to outwork
everybody I don't give a [ __ ] what you
try to do to slow me down like I'm going
to keep going and because it has worked
well for me it I don't immediately find
myself gravitating towards the problems
now Andrew Yang comes onto the scene and
I'm looking at I remember telling my
employees the night before the Trump
election guys he cannot get elected like
he he is on tape he said I grabbed them
in the [ __ ] it it's done like I I was
so I was literally laughing I'm like you
guys are panicking he is fundamentally
unelectable it can't happen and so I was
like go to bed rest everything's going
to be fine and so the next morning when
I say that I was like what I I was so
caught off guard and taken by surprise
was just anyway a very surprising moment
so that was the first time where I
thought Whoa man maybe votes really do
count like you know that I I should have
voted I didn't vote never even really
thought I'm like I live in California
it's like it's a default you know
State's going to go Blue so never
thought about the need to vote never
even took inventory of am I conservative
or um am I liberal none of it just
didn't think about
it as this all starts happening and the
the Trump thing is kicking off and I
start with just default assumptions that
he's a psychopath and he is like
literally ruining this country and then
Yang comes around because I'm like who
am I going to vote for in the next
election because now I realize I really
do need to vote and yang came along and
I'm like yo this dude and I was really
into him and obviously he gets sort of
railroaded off but then I had him on my
podcast and I was way opposed to LBI uh
Ubi Ubi and uh when I had him on the
podcast I'm talking to him and I'm like
you know man I'm still not sure if I
agree with Ubi or not but like I really
believe in this dude like and if this
dude has looked at this problem that
close and is like yo we really have to
take this into consideration I'm just
willing to say either I need to go
figure it out for myself and do all the
hardcore research or I need to find a
proxy that I can trust and I felt so
good about him so when you came out with
unity and and off camera I told him dude
you better [ __ ] run again next cycle
because one you look super preent now
that because this was right after Co hit
um and I just really think people are
going to get used to your way and there
there could be a real shot for you and
so when you started talking Unity 2020
and the people that you were putting
forth that he happened to be one I was
like ah there's he gave me the clear
sense of what you meant by a
patriot and okay so that's the framework
with which I'm now stepping into the
first time I hear about Unity 2020 and I
think o this is interesting but my first
problem is Tick Tock man we are running
up against it so how are you not worried
about and forget it I know you're going
to pull the plug if we can't but I'm
just saying I really want it to happen
so how do we get enough done in the
really small amount of time that we have
like can you even get on the ballot
everywhere well see that's the thing
everybody asks this
question you have to realize something
you probably hadn't heard a plan like
Unity 2020 before in other words you've
you've probably heard the Lesser evil
thing a dozen times right you've heard
why you can't engage in this and then
the answer is oh there's actually a very
simple solution to that puzzle ballot
access has this element if you think
well ballot access is a matter of
collecting signatures there's a date in
every state and that's it then we're
cooked that's true we are cooked you
can't do it that way it's not the only
way so the question is is there
something that you are not seeing and I
can promise you there is can I promise
you that we're going to get there oh I
absolutely can't what we need is a
ground swell in order to find out right
everything depends on people realizing
what I think even in what you just said
uh I think is missing which is I don't
think there's any guarantee that
something recognizable makes it to 2024
for Andrew Yang to run again I think
Andrew Yang is thinking that it does
right in fact I saw an interview in
which he ominously said that he had
signed something that said he was going
to step out of the race this time and
not do anything that might interfere
with it who is asking him to sign what
this is a democracy who knows what the
future holds why would any honorable
person ask somebody who is clearly
capable qualified for the job why would
you take anybody off the map with their
signature shouldn't a handshake do it
and say look under foreseeable
circumstances I'm not planning to run
shouldn't that be good enough for just
about anybody so anyway something
ominous is a foot in our system that
wishes to take Andrew out of circulation
we saw it act during the primaries right
we saw all sorts of shenanigans played
in order to to limit his influence I
think it's very clear why you know again
the Democratic party does not want to
represent the public because it has
other priorities Andrew Yang would
clearly represent the public so he's a
non-starter frankly I think he'll be a
non-starter in 2024 2028 you know
whatever it is right the the problem
within the current system well let's put
it this way why is he behaving like a
good soldier in the current system if
the current system cannot allow Andrew
Yang to be Andrew Yang I mean there's
something just seriously off so uh in
any case the um the thing about Andrew
Yang that I really like and the reason
that I named him as a member the the
left leaning member of the the
prototypical ticket is that he is uh
very insightful he's clearly motivated
by the right things to be honest with
you I'm not sure I believe in Ubi as
presented but my sense is there it's a
problem that needs to be addressed Ubi
is a proposal it proves that Andrew is
interested in the right things he's
focused in the right place personally I
would argue that something like
participation income might be a better
instantiation but here's the thing I
know for sure let's say that Andrew Yang
found himself in the white
house there's no problem saying look Ubi
was a cool idea here's why it doesn't
work here's an idea that fixes the
problem with Ubi and addresses the same
thing that IT addresses Andrew Yang
would look at it and if he thought
actually that does work better there's
no obstacle to it right he would accept
it or if he understood something about
participation income that wasn't as
effective at Ubi he'd throw back that
argument and we'd find out right there's
no there's nothing in the system there's
no reason he'd be committed to it
there's no constituency that uh is
favoring Ubi that is actually driving
his claim to believe in it so again it's
just a simple matter of let's let
democracy work by taking people who can
afford to listen to any idea who don't
have a dog in the fight personally who
can actually speak on our behalf so yeah
Andrew's perfect for that because he's
smart he's open-minded he's Patriot I
mean hell yeah
so as we um there's some way that you
guys see that we can get on the ballot
in time when do you plan to announce
announce uh who the candidates are and
what does that is that process of
selecting those candidates something
that you pass off or do you have to have
the unity um the unity party that you
know has their own sort of version of
the DNC that does this like what CU I I
will say I'm I'm the guy that um
you probably are aiming at convincing
right like I'm ready I'm ready to be
convinced but right now I feel like if I
wasn't obsessed with you as a thinker um
I just wouldn't pay attention because I
don't have enough details y so it's like
and if I'm saying that like uh there's
just not enough details here so I'm just
not even going to think about it because
I go to a pessimistic place if they're
never even going to be able to get on
the ballot it's just too [ __ ] late um
and that there is hopelessness in that
but I think that that level of sort of
um just unquestioned hopelessness right
i' I'm only processing through this
because I'm sitting in front of you now
right so otherwise I wouldn't it just
would be sort of background like oh
that' be cool but you know we're just
it's just not going to happen in time um
okay how do how do we give the the you
know the optimism and the sense of like
[ __ ] this could really happen Okay so uh
there are a couple answers to the
question one I don't think there's any
point in actually attempting to deliver
a ticket it if we don't have the ground
swell that makes it plausible because
for one thing what it does is it
actually damages the people who we would
name right interesting we we want them
empowered in order to empower them to uh
to work on our behalf they have to be
drafted into this movement which
requires the ground swell if we don't
get the ground swell then it doesn't
make sense to do it however here's the
thing that I think you're looking for
let's say that this plan fails and we're
not on track by uh well we can't
actually say when because we don't know
how the ballots are going to be
delivered and therefore when voting is
actually going to take place but let's
say we're not on track in
time but let's say that we have managed
to uh to accumulate a movement of people
that understands that we are now rolling
the dice with all of the most dangerous
processes on earth right a the world
superpower is now gambling with the
possibility of Civil War right we
haven't even begun to talk about what
happens if we fragment not only is there
no geographical solution that suggests
itself in this case but um somehow we're
talking about not only a nuclear Arsenal
but we're talking about U nuclear
reactors that need to be carefully
managed how you know how is a transition
to some other structure in which the
United States ceases to exist going to
work so all I'm saying is the magnitude
of the danger that we are putting the
world in even before you get to the
question of what happens next if the
United States fails because we tear
ourselves apart that
empowers um China is China the
next uh you know pole of the of the
world single pole um you know is it
going to be Russia what happens in the
absence of a powerful United States
we're putting the world in Jeopardy here
so we're putting the world in Jeopardy
the process seems to be moving
incredibly rapidly such that we can have
a discussion about whether or not uh
there's going to be something to salvage
in 2024 or not um this is an amazing
level of danger that we are putting
ourselves and the world in in light of
that it seems to me that it makes sense
for every person with ears to hear um
that
predicament to gather around well what
is the chance that we can road to shore
why wouldn't you take a shot at
something like Unity 2020 and here's the
thing if it fails to elect a ticket to
the White House it could still cause um
all of the projects that aim for a
better world to to uh collect into one
we've got the open source movement
movement we've got the cryptocurrency
movement um we've got makers we've got
game B right all of these things we've
got IDW all of these things aim to solve
problems in the Legacy World why
wouldn't they join together and
understand that in effect the entire
game is can we bring the things that
we've learned in all of these different
contexts into uh a structure that has
the power to implement them or to clear
the obstacles so in essence the answer
to your question is whether we succeed
or fail in 2020 we can succeed in
creating the best hope for the future
will it be enough nobody can guarantee
that I certainly won't but is it the
best hope we've got I haven't heard a
better one
so you know what's holding us back from
just simply getting behind this idea it
doesn't carry any ideological content
that would cause anybody to look at it
and say oh that's not that's not me
right that's it has deliberately been
pruned of ideological content so that it
can uh it can cause these other things
to gravitate to each other and isn't
that the movement that we're looking for
one that understands um the uh the value
of crypto and open source and and all of
these other
things I think the real answer to the
question of what's holding us back is
you don't have sex appeal yet
so like what what is going to be the
hook you know what I mean so part and
and I have not thought through this well
enough to know if what I'm about to say
is actually true or not I feel very
confident about what I just said you
lack a hook that's sexy enough to get
people um excited but there is there's
so much noise right now um I I can't
tell you how much my YouTube viewing
habits have changed in the last like
three months it it is so surreal to me
even to think um like now I'm I'm just
sort of almost like I'm watching news
right I'm looking for things that came
out right now that are super contextual
to what's happening in this moment
there's there's a cacophony of voices um
and because I was apolitical and didn't
watch news I didn't even realize that um
that news had become Kabuki theater and
it's so weird to see like if I see this
same thing being covered on CNN versus
Fox it actually looks like different
things happened I mean it's so [ __ ]
bizarre and not having an allegiance in
either direction I'm just like
this is fundamentally problematic like
if you follow this out to its natural
conclusion you're just more and more and
more polarized because there's this
weird friction in fact uh um I know I'm
I'm going a field of where I was
originally headed but this is actually
interesting so there's a weird friction
as you adopt one narrative or the other
of the same factual thing that happened
but one narrative feels right to you
feels like you're now cheering for your
team yes they're covering it in a way
that's speaks to me there's friction in
in the other one because neither are
true so the other one isn't oh I'm
getting to truth it's you're asking me
to actually adopt the opposing team's
narrative which already didn't resonate
with me on a subconscious level anyway
so now that I'm consciously looking at
it it really feels anathema to who I am
this does not feel good I don't like
this so it it is far easier to go from
one interpretation to another if both
had a sincere effort to get to the facts
and one just missed something or you
know that wasn't said as well as it
could be and so you could gravitate to
oh I see this is actually what happened
cool I can make that leap but when the
sensemaking apparatus is intentionally
now so deep into the world of narrative
I can't cross that divide and so that's
what scares me is there's already people
seek things that confirm the
confirmation bias confirm what they
already believe but that's a lot less
problematic when the disconfirming
evidence doesn't trigger um some weird
destruction of your identity in the way
that now it forces you to because you
have polarized narratives um and how
we get past that and have sex appeal is
where like this starts to worry me so my
we we you cannot let me end this
interview without us talking about
shutdown stem which to me when I look
around and I go okay people with guns
and riots and stuff okay that's all
troubling but the one that scares the
[ __ ] out of me is shut down stem and we
can get into why but the once people
detach themselves from what works what
moves you towards your goal then it it
is it you you can no longer in any
effective way move forward and that's
what worries me so when I think about
what the effective way forward here is
in this moment with unity 2020 you have
to capture the imagination of people and
you're competing against a narrative
that gets people feeling like there is a
dragon to be slayed and they're willing
to run out the streets it's intoxicating
and even if like dude I know you know
Ma's China um the the revolution the the
Red Guard that rose up and you had
students actually killing teachers and
dude when I stop and think about what I
was like in high school and this really
bother this really bothers me I remember
when Jordan Peterson said when you look
back on World War II don't imagine
yourself hiding um you know a Jewish
person in your addict think of yourself
as an SS guard and I thought oh God but
when I think about me being 16 during
the uprising of the Red Guard I'd have
put dun caps on my teachers and you know
hit them with a stick I would have dude
because it just it felt so I felt so
right about everything at that
age well I get that I have to say I uh I
think Jordan Peterson is right although
personally I there's not I feel a
certain amount of security that I
wouldn't have ended up an SS
guard no no that not not because I'm
Jewish let's let's put me in uh you know
in uh in an I don't know Aryan skin or
something somehow there's something
about me that is uh so incompatible with
a certain kind of authority that I just
it's impossible your movements with
Evergreen make that hard to argue yeah
well anyway um let's go back to the
question of
um sex appeal for
one
um here's the thing there's a saying
that I'm very fond of it's a Hopey
saying we are the ones we've been
waiting for right and I I think it's
just impossibly deep actually and so
here's the thing you're you're a guy
who's trying to build a new Disney right
you're the sex appeal guy right you know
we're in danger that's part of why we're
having this conversation
so the question is what is the answer to
that I know full well that you're right
that at some level what I have deployed
reaches a certain number of people who
were ready but it doesn't reach a large
enough group now it's not that there's
anything wrong with the idea I'm sure of
that but you're right the question is
can you deliver it narratively in a way
that people get it instantly they
understand what it is why they have to
be part of it and it seems to me that
this is the same the the same question
we were dealing with earlier the dynamic
tension that