Kind: captions
Language: en
war is a test of Wills Israel is very
determined to completely eradicate Hamas
it's going to cause years and years of
strategic problems people are going to
seek revenge on them if I was an enemy
of this country I would do everything I
could to fuel the fires of division
within this nation do you think that
China is doing that with Tik Tok
yes why do you think so many people want
you to run for
president I would say
probably if anyone wants me to run for
president it's probably because they
look at the current choices and think
just about anything would be better so
that's that's probably has something to
do with it I will say that you are a
strong man with strong character and if
I had to guess that that's what people
are going for um I know you don't want
to run for office but does that resonate
do can you see why people would
gravitate towards that at this
moment you are correct that I do not
want to run for office I definitely
don't want to be in in politics I I have
friends that are in politics it looks
absolutely horrible their lives look
terrible it does not look like the kind
of the the way I would want to spend my
time because of how people go after them
or something else the whole nine yards I
mean just having to travel to live in DC
a bunch of the year there's pragmatic
selfish
reasons that I look at it and think but
yeah do I want to do I want to go and do
that and and the answer that I usually
give is if things got bad enough in the
country then clearly I I love
America and if that was required then I
would step up and and do
something and then people of course say
to me well how much worse can it get and
I usually say listen it can get a lot
worse things can get a lot worse
everyone right now has a phone and they
have food
and we're we're doing pretty well
comparatively to countries that fall
apart
so would I do it at some juncture if
things got bad enough yes would I do it
if I was maybe older and didn't H still
have you know kids I I got one daughter
left in in high school so it's I wasn't
around much for my other kids cuz I was
deployed all the time so it's nice to be
around a little bit
more and yeah and I think that I would
say that actually probably the reason
that people might look at me and think
hey he might not be bad at that job is
because
I'm pretty levelheaded I would think I
don't fly off the handle I can open my
ears and my eyes and and take in a bunch
of different perspectives and understand
people's perspectives and why someone
might be saying one thing and why
someone might be saying something else
and how they're both probably got some
points that make sense and so I've spent
I spent the my entire adult life really
in leadership positions so I've
constantly been collecting data points
and making decisions and driving things
forward and and I think that probably is
visible to someone on the that that
looks at me so that might be why they're
thinking that and I I apologize for
letting them down but I I really don't
want to do that that kind of job I can
get that I certainly not that a single
person has ever said I should run for
office but I likewise would not want
that role but the thing that makes that
question interesting because I've heard
your answer about not wanting to do it
though we will get to the warlord part
uh at some point today but the I think
it says something really interesting
about what either people covet in a
leader full stop or what they covet in a
leader right now um okay so you laid out
sort of why you think people might be
responding to you but let me ask who
would be the ideal person you would like
to see in real life like who ideally
would you like to see run for president
I think right now what we need is is
someone
that's less polarizing and has a more
open mind and is more concerned about or
looking more to find Solutions and
compromise and figure out how to make
things work rather than hey here's what
the party that put me in this position
wants to have happen and therefore
that's what I'm going to do my best to
make happen because what that results in
is oftentimes nothing happening so if we
can't come to a compromise and figure
out how to move forward we don't make
any decisions we don't make any progress
so I I would like to see someone that
said oh yeah there's some good aspects
to this idea there's some good aspects
to this opposing ideas what can we do to
take those ideas and pull the best
components from that and put together an
idea that's new that will function
correctly and and look you could
say uh there's some saying oh if you're
in the middle of the road you're going
to get run over right there's a saying
like that but look that's the the
reality of life is there's there's
different there's different beliefs
there's different ideas and and everyone
that has an idea there's going to be
some good components to that idea and
there's going to be some things that
won't really work out and in a
leadership position you've got to say
okay what will what will function how
can we move forward and how can we make
compromises that that will benefit
everybody that all feels like the right
gravitational Center but if you had to
pick somebody uh like so what prompted
this question was somebody came up to
you at the Arnold Classic wearing a
shirt I think that said Rogan hannes and
you were like something affirmative I'm
here for that or you know whatever um
maybe ingest or maybe serious
but the people that you know that have
that ability to bring people together
that have an ability to think through a
problem and look for Solutions and not
get caught up in the drama to not become
beholden to their base which I think is
part of what people love about Rogan is
that he is um he'll have whatever he
thinks to be true he's going to tell you
and whether that gets him in hot water
or not he does not seem to care um I'm
certainly not feeding you that as the
answer but I'm just curious if there's
somebody that you know in your life or a
public figure that you're like l really
that person yeah I mean Rogan's a good
example of someone that has an open mind
and he listens to different people's
perspectives and he also changes his
mind he changes his perspective when he
gets new data in he says oh yeah I was
wrong about this subject and you can
he'll he'll openly say oh this is what I
thought before now I've learned this
here's what I'm thinking now and even
when he says he's thinking something now
he doesn't say this is what's correct
now he says no this is what I'm thinking
now so having that kind of an open mind
that's the kind of person that I think
would do a good job in that position I I
can just about guarantee you that Joe
Rogan does not want to be president of
the United States of America but yes
someone with an open mind like that
that's going to that's going to bring in
new information and and put those data
points into the calculus of a
decision-making process that's that's
what I think someone would be good in
that position I don't know if there's
any public figures that I can think of
off the top of my head that that sort of
come to mind I mean uh I'm friends with
Tulsi gabard I think she's a very
squared away woman with a an open mind
and she brings in data points and she's
very articulate I I was honestly quite
quite surprised when she got so
obliterated by the Democratic party
because I thought she was a a good
candidate but I think you know she's a
she's a veteran she's got a great
perspective she's got a great attitude I
think I think she would have been a good
candidate I have no idea what happened
there what happened oh Tulsi gabard so
she was she was uh a Democrat and she
was running as as a Democrat and she
didn't agree with everything that the
Democratic party was saying and she
spoke about the fact that she didn't
agree with everything that the
Democratic party was saying and the
Democratic party just turned on her and
obliterated her so it was it was was
very interesting to watch from the
outside and they did the same thing to
Bernie Sanders you know Bernie Sanders
was very popular within the Democratic
party but he he he got obliterated by
the Democratic party so it's uh it's
been interesting to watch that yeah yeah
politics right now strikes me as very
weird and as I try to zoom in on uh what
I think people should be doing when
they're looking at their leader versus
what they're doing uh it gets very
jarring so I'm I'm currently exploring
an idea that is I think we've stopped
stopped using philosophy because
philosophy became a standin for
something up in the air sort of
pointless it's not grounded why are we
talking about this when in reality if
you get rid of philosophy which I see as
it is the Bedrock from which your
thinking grows if you get rid of that
philosophy now you just have a bunch of
random either facts or thoughts and
there's nothing that congeals it nothing
stated that congeals it and so when
people debate you get this sort of shows
that we're getting right now where it's
name calling ad homonym people even if
they're talking about facts they're not
recognizing that they have different
value systems which is what I mean when
I talk philosophy to me philosophies
philosophy is values plus beliefs so
they're not recognizing we have
different values and so when we look at
the same facts we come up with wildly
different conclusions and because nobody
stops them and goes hey why do you
believe what you believe not what you
believe we've already heard that you've
been screaming it for the last 45
minutes why do you believe what you
believe so looking at that gravitational
Center I think becomes critical so what
I want to see people do is say this is
my stated philosophy this is what I
believe and this is what I'm trying to
achieve so I'll give you mine just by
way of example human flourishing is my
aim and thinking from first principles
is My Philosophy like one ought to build
up literally starting with physics and
then everything from there is about
predictive capabilities so if I believe
uh that politicians are going to vote in
their long-term best interest of getting
reelected am I able to better predict
their choices or can I predict them less
better if I assume that um politicians
are going to stand by their morals can I
better predict or Worse predict their um
their actions less right and
so that that is sort of mind in a
nutshell what would you say is your
Bedrock upon which you build your
thought process my thought process from
a political aspect or just my thought
proc a political person so that seems
like a wasted question so I'll say in
life well I I I I agree that you don't
very often hear politicians talking
about these are the principles that I
believe in and you could you you could
even take that further so there's some
goals right that if you pull any
politician out of Congress and you say
hey do you think
that people should have access to
healthare I mean I can pretty much tell
you that 100% of the people in the US
government would say yeah I believe that
people should have access to healthcare
they all think that like there's a sick
kid they would want to help that sick
kid there's a s sick Grandma they'd want
to help that sick Grandma the the
disparity comes in when how do you get
that healthare to those people right
because on one side of the spectrum it's
like we need to give it to them for free
on the other side of the spectrum is if
you give everyone free health care then
the health care is ends up being pretty
worthless
so these people say nope we need to
charge top dollar for the healthare the
other people say oh no we need to give
that healthcare for free and what needs
to happen is some kind of a balance
right but unfortunately often times it
just turns into an argument I think it
should be for free I think it should be
top dollar and that's what you end up
with is like I like I said earlier you
end up in a situation where no one is
compromising no one's trying to figure
out an actual solution to the problem
and so not knowing what the what like
you're saying not knowing what the
philosophy of a human being is now we
don't we don't we doesn't matter what
end goal they're going to towards
because how are they going to get there
we don't know what measure they might
take so I I think we have to be I think
we should be discussing those things I I
would I I would love to hear a debate
between people where instead of spouting
off like what you said hey here's some
facts and figures which the data is all
manipulated and we all know you can take
that and you can make it say whatever
you want but hey what's the end state
that you're trying to achieve and what's
your belief and how you think we should
get there and there's going to be
changes because no one can come up with
a plan that's perfect to execute
anything so you come up with a flexible
plan and you start to move in that
direction and then you iterate and make
changes to the plan as you get closer
but you're still sticking within the
principles that you believe and still
going towards the end state that you're
trying to reach that's what a leader
should be doing and that's what leaders
should be doing instead of well it's not
what I wanted so I'm going to burn it
down which is what we get a lot of right
now yes why do you think we get that by
the
way well part of it is what you
mentioned right we got people that their
their goal is to make sure that they
stay in their position of power so
that's what they're going to that's
that's the way they're running their
business that's the way their business
being being a politician so when they go
in front of a camera what do they want
they want to get a little more popular
well what kind of what kind of things
get viewed in social media or on the
media right now what what gets viewed
what gets shared it's it's emot things
it's quick sound bites that insult
someone really bad or make someone look
really stupid or make me look really
good or dunk on someone all that so
that's what they do that's what they're
trying for hey I'm going to go out there
and make a statement that's going to get
shared and that's going to get my name
out there and it's going to keep me in
this position of power so instead of
someone saying well you know I've never
really thought about that before let me
get back to you does that get shared no
that doesn't get shared so they they
have some some remark that they're going
to say it's GNA it's going to be
inflammatory and it's going to make the
rounds and so they're going to keep
themselves in power and then of course
they're going to vote for things that
are going to keep them in power they've
got lobbyists that are putting money in
their pockets it's it's a it's it's a
system
that's it's a system that's in many ways
is corrupt yeah yes it is and very
troubling so right now
our corrupt or corrupt adjacent system
is most likely going to be putting
forward two potential candidates for CEO
of
America uh Trump and Biden if you came
into a company and Trump was the CEO
what advice would you give him to
improve his leadership abilities to do
the things that you've laid out which to
consolidate uh you want somebody who is
solution oriented somebody who
understands that you're going to have to
compromise to bring Unity uh somebody
that oper Ates on a goal plan uh
execution pattern somebody that
understands that there's going to be
messiness and you're going to have to
work within that system somebody that
has principles that are articulable that
are knowable uh that they operate on you
said all of that and I'll add one thing
that I think you implied even when it's
hard so even when the sexier thing
that's going to get you farther would be
to um be more salacious so that it goes
viral to not do that and instead to
Anchor around principles um I have a
feeling my audience will resonate with
that very much I certainly do so
assuming that you're Consulting Trump as
the potential CEO of America with all of
that as your center of gravity what
would you knowing what he's like what
would you advise him to do or a CEO like
him clearly he gets himself in a lot of
trouble because he's very
Brash that and he gets himself in a lot
of trouble because he's very Brash he
also is very popular because he's very
Brash and I think that the brashness is
one of the things that got him into the
situation you know that got him elected
in the first place once he was elected I
thought and I would advise him once you
get elected you've used this brashness
we understand it we understand that you
use sound bites we understand that
that's that makes you very popular but
now that you're in this position what we
want to do is we want to build
relationships with with the with the
with everybody so that we listen to what
other people say we make sure that we're
moving in the same direction um and so
yeah I would say let let's let's build
some relationships you've you've you've
said a lot of things you've done a lot
of things and actually really he says a
lot of things that that one one part of
the country finds glorious and he says a
lot of things that one part of the
country finds completely offensive and
so once he was elected I would say all
right let's let try and let's try and
say things that are a little bit more
Center let's try and say things that are
a little bit more uniting instead of
saying things that are very divisive now
that
brashness is one of the main things that
that made him so popular because he
stood up to people
that that that one part of the country
never gets to talk back to and he he
stood up to him and they supported that
so once that again once that election
takes place and you're in that position
now all right let's look to let's look
to unite people instead of divide them
so one of the things I think that makes
Trump um really appealing to people is
this idea of a strong man it's one of
the reasons I think as I said earlier
that people are so drawn to you but
you're a much more interesting variant
where I feel like I can track your
principles seems like you're always
operating in accordance with them uh but
Trump is very much a strong man like he
is not afraid to Brash to bully to
chastise he said something I think the
first go round which which love Trump or
hate Trump I think this is brilliant um
I may be a bully but I'm your bully and
I think people so hunger for that to be
able to draft off somebody it's what I
call the Invincible winner when you
believe somebody's an invincible winner
you always want your big brother to be
an invincible winner you want your dad
when you're a little kid that's the
fantasy dad's an invincible winner and
and there is nothing more traumatic than
watching your dad who you think of as an
invincible winner get his ass kicked
like that that's that would be a
transformative moment for a child to
witness that like whoa the foundation
upon which my world was built just came
crumbling down so I think that's a big
part of the appeal to Trump is nobody's
been listening to me and I don't want to
derail on the whole Elites versus
everybody else but I think that's very
real so understand everything I'm saying
is in that context where people are just
like my life is being run by people I
don't understand I make a living uh in a
more middle class working class way and
this guy's basically telling everybody
to [ __ ] off like he's
just potentially a WWE wrestler but he
nonetheless is your
bully um how do we take somebody that
has those
Tendencies and is known for firing
people inside their cabinet and creating
that instability would you sit him down
and say uh tell me your principal and
standards because this is something I
know you do when you go into a company
would we start there where we're just
trying to get him hey so that you're not
constantly just firing from the hip and
saying crazy [ __ ] like we need to
outline what what do you really believe
in you as the real human or is there
another First Step so in doing what
you're saying because that's essentially
the idea but a big piece for me is
getting people to think strategically
instead of tactically so in in the
military there's
there's three level levels of combat
you've got tactical operational and
strategic I don't really talk about
operational very much because it's
confusing to the civilian world but
tactical is what we're doing right now
this gunfight that I'm in right now
there's machine gun bullets flying at me
how do I get out of here strategic is oh
we've got a war to win we've got we've
got brigades and divisions to maneuver
we've got supply lines to fill we've got
local populace that we need to get on
board that's strategic thinking it's
long-term
thinking versus tactical of short-term
thinking so for a guy like Trump and
I've had this conversation with many
leaders over the years hey you and I get
an argument and I tell you like all
right I've heard enough from you Tom
shut up and get out of my
office and shut up and leave the meeting
right so I just do that to you in front
of 15 people we've got in this meeting
tactically I feel great I showed my
power let out some emotions other people
are going to know they better not mess
with me right so a good tactical win
feels good what happens after the
meeting people are sitting around going
I can't believe he did that to Tom Tom
was just trying to make a point you're
now saying that guy won't even listen to
me now we got your three or four close
friends are saying he's not going to
listen to any of us and now what we end
up with is a problem a long-term
strategic problem because we've got a
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today so I would start talking to him
about okay let's stop acting tactically
and let's start acting strategically and
and I'm not talking about his about his
Global policies I'm talking about his
basically his media and his
reputational impact because he's he's a
very tactical guy I mean Twitter for the
most part is a tactical tool like the
it's so fast it's so rapid you're get
your information out there but it's not
a
longstanding image that you give it's
just a tactical oh I dunked on this
person I made that person look bad I
made myself look good in this moment but
it doesn't help you strategically in the
long term so I would be talking to him
about okay how are we going to think
about building these relationships
strategically over the next four years
so that when you go and you present
something that makes
sense you actually get support there's a
there's a a term there's one one term
called Psychological reactants which is
when I tell you what to do most people
they don't like that they don't like
that but there's also a psychological
mechanism that we have that when I don't
like you for whatever reason oh Tom he's
he's he's he never says hi to me in the
morning he treats me bad he looks down
on me he he made those couple comments
to me in that meeting and now you come
into a meeting and you present an
idea I have an instinct a psychological
instinct to be oh I don't like your idea
your idea is bad Tom's idea is bad I
don't like Tom so I don't like Tom's
ideas and it doesn't matter what your
idea is and we have we saw that you see
that in politics all the time I mean
that is basically the way politics runs
is oh if you're a Democrat and Trump
came up with an idea it's awful if
you're a Republican and Biden came up
with an idea it's awful we hate it and
that's the way that's the way it the the
country is operating right now instead
of saying hold on a second what is the
what's the what's the value of this idea
what's the Strategic value of this idea
where is this going to put us in the
long term I don't really care where it
came from is it a good idea or is it a
bad idea but they take wholesale
everything that TR Trump does or
wholesale everything that Biden does and
say I hate it all I don't support any of
it and you end up with no progress
there's no progress there
so that's what we need to watch out for
so if I was talking to Trump I'd be
saying listen you got to build these
relationships so when you present an
idea that by really any metric makes
sense people will say yeah you know what
that makes sense let's move forward with
it and in order to do that you got to
you got to build some relationships if
you don't have relationships you're just
going to you're just going to get hatred
and that's kind of where that's kind of
where America is right now unfortunately
how do you build relationships with
people that are on the opposite team
there's five
components in my opinion there's five
components to a relationship trust
listen respect influence and
care and so in order to if look if I
don't trust you and you don't trust me
we don't have a relationship if if you
don't listen to me and I don't listen to
you we don't have a relationship if I
don't respect you and you don't respect
me we don't have a relationship if I
have no influence over you and you have
no influence over me we don't have a
relationship and if I don't care about
you and you don't care about me we don't
have a
relationship so I want to build those
things how do I build those things and
the the original idea the original
kernel of this this concept came to me
when people would ask me all the time
how do I get this person to listen to me
and you know how do you get how Tom if I
want you to listen to me what do I do
you're not listening to me what do I do
do I talk louder do I start to yell at
you no actually it's very
counterintuitive if I want to listen to
me I need to listen to
you I need to listen to what you say and
by the way if I want you to respect me I
can't say I'm the boss you better
respect me I actually need to give you
respect if I want to have influence over
you I actually need to allow you to
influence me if I want you to care about
me I need to care about
you if I want you to trust me I have to
put trust into you so if you're going to
build relation ships with people what
you have to do is you have to listen to
them you have to treat them with respect
you have to allow their ideas to
influence
you and if you do those things then that
will open up their mind and now you can
have an actual conversation and you can
try and figure out a good solution as
opposed to just stonewalling each other
not listening to each other and closing
up our
minds that all feels incredibly right to
me the one thing I worry about is that
we are living in a time where uh some
portion of the half of the country that
hates the other candidate which is very
fascinating to me I feel that it's
breaking along evolutionary lines but
that's a conversation for another day
but you have left and right uh and so if
you're on the left you're going to hate
the right candidate if you're on the
right you're going to hate the left
candidate now partly because of social
media we are now at a stage where people
actually believe that the other side
represents an existential threat so very
smart
very intelligent people I have listened
bang on about the fact that Trump is a
legitimate existential threat to the
country uh one do you think he's an
existential threat do I think he's an
existential threat to America yeah okay
so you and I agree on that and and and
nor do I think Joe Biden is an
existential threat to America America is
a big strong giant Empire and one of
these people is not going to take down
this this country now could we get to at
some point maybe in our lifetimes where
we we reach some kind of a point of no
return where yeah this this downward
spiral that we're on right now is now
Beyond hope could we get there in our
lifetimes I guess we'd have to do we'd
have to continually do dumb things and
America's done all kinds of dumb things
but normally thankfully when we do dumb
things we look around and we go that was
kind of dumb we need we need to fix this
that's why we get the kind of classic
pendulum going from the left to the
right we kind of get that that swing
going back and forth we do dumb things
we we get ourselves squared away we take
that too far we do something else dumb
we go back in the other direction but
America is a strong country the the
people of the country the other thing
you got to remember is you talk about
social media right and the fact that
you'll see on social media that the the
left thinks that Trump is an existential
threat and the right thinks that Biden
is an existential threat to the
country that's what you hear on social
media look I have a consulting company I
travel around this country I talk to
businesses and and and industries all
the time all the
time all over the place uh energy
companies insurance companies
construction companies manufacturing
companies all these different companies
and you know what those people talk to
me about they talk to me about how they
can build a better product how they take
care of their client how they can take
care of their people what they can do to
unify their team they're not talking
about these these polarizing political
situations they're talking about how do
they make their company and their world
better so that's the vast majority of
the country now are there a bunch of
loud
mouths that sit on social media and and
attack each other yes there absolutely
are there absolutely are and by the way
if you get the chance like if if you get
the chance to go to the
mountains and you don't look at your
social media for 7 days while you're in
the mountains when you come back nothing
will have changed those people will
still be yelling at each other you
didn't get any aggravation from it it
didn't impact what happened and it's
going to be fine so we could shut down
those things right now and it wouldn't
make that big of a difference it's
really interesting it's a great point
about detaching uh I have in myself many
times not knowing about something is the
same as it not happening at least from
your perspective uh so okay uh you don't
think either side poses an existential
threat but going back to what triggered
this in my mind uh we're Consulting
Trump and you're telling him look we
have to be more um unifying we've got to
bring people together love the brashness
you got yourself elected totally respect
your ability to do that with the media
uh but that's not going to fly now we
have to stop being tactical we need to
start being strategic we're going have
to bring people together however the
other side does think he's a problem and
whether it's just that they want to win
as a team and they're going to use a
faux sense of you're an existential
threat as as the push back the reason to
shut the door whatever they're going to
do that but I really believe the thing
that you laid out is absolutely true
about what has to be done so in terms of
building a relationship so now the
question becomes when you have somebody
who I mean just swimming with sharks
right so how do you befriend a shark
somebody who is politically motivated to
never give an inch with
you let's also have you ever seen those
um compilations where they have the past
I don't know probably 20 elections where
people are saying this is the most
critical election in the history of our
democracy and our democracy at
stake for sure they're going to keep
saying this so let's not get too crazy
there our our democracy is going to be
okay and like I said could there be some
things that we could do where we could
get to a point where yeah we can't
recover we could get there we're not
even close we're not even close to that
right now okay so now I've got someone
that is a complete antagonist to
me just wants me out of that job wants
to take care of themselves what do I
have to do I've got to do the same
protocols that I just talked about
you've got problems with me Tom come in
and let's talk about those problems you
I'm going to listen to you I'm going to
allow what you're saying I'm going to
try and understand your perspective I'm
going to actively try and allow you to
influence what my plan is I'm going to
make that happen I'm also going
to consistently and
repetitively ask you why you want to do
something what is the outcome that
you're looking for why why do you want
to do that why do you wanna spend money
in that marketing campaign right if you
and I are working together you come in
look Joo you're shutting down all of our
marketing we need to put money into this
marketing campaign okay well talk to me
about why well because that is a a group
we've never talked to before okay do you
what makes you think they're going to
want our product well I got this Market
data oh okay so you just taught me
something I didn't know about this
Market tell me more and all of a sudden
when I open my mind and I started
listening I and say oh I didn't know
that we had Market let me see that
market data oh you're right this this
would have a good impact for us here's
something I didn't tell you Tom the
reason we pulled back all of our
marketing budget is because we're losing
money and we don't have much left oh so
now you're thinking how can I do this
more effect effectively and efficiently
and save money while still addressing
this new market that we have an
opportunity in so now we start having a
conversation and guess what we start
doing we start solving the problem so if
I go yeah you know what Tom's just a he
just always wants to spend money a
maniac he's going to come into my office
and you say hey I'd like to spend some
Morey we're losing money you're talking
about spending money we're losing money
it's because you don't understand get
out of here it's a fail but if I say all
right Tom tell me tell me what you want
to do tell me why you want to do it
let's let's try and find a solution to
What's Happening Here our country
doesn't do that right now and look you
don't have to go back that
far 15 20 30 years where these these
government officials these elected
representatives on both side of the
aisle they were friends they had
conversations they talked to each other
they went to Banquets together like
that's what they used to do they don't
really do that
anymore so we've completely thrown these
relationships out and it's a problem so
if you want if you're in an organization
which as you said the the government is
an organization and you're trying to
solve problems you have to work together
so guess what I have to do as the leader
I have to put my ego in check look Tom
did everything in his power to make sure
I didn't get elected he said nasty
things about me he said horrible things
he lied he tweeted a bunch of stuff he
brought up stuff from my past he's he he
hates me guess what I have to do I have
to say okay you know what what's more
important than my ego our country what's
more important than mudslinging our
country so you've got people in our
government that put their own agenda
their own ego their own personality
their own election above the most
important thing which is America our
country so
until well there's two things until
those people in those offic in those
positions recognize that and until we as
voters recognize that what we need is
someone that's going to affect change
not someone that's going to yell and
scream
so I want to vote for someone that is
going to build relationships and and
affect change I I'm not voting for
someone the reason oh I'm voting for
this guy because I saw him on social
media and he really blasted the other
side he really made the Republicans look
like idiots or he really made the
Democrats look like idiots I'm gonna
vote for that person no it's like wait
wait a second what did you what did you
accomplish have you you know I don't
know when this is coming out but we just
signed like a $1.3 trillion bill
and I just really quickly on my way up
here was going through it to see you
know like what we're spending money on
trillions and trillions and trillions of
dollars that that we're spending money
on it's a bill that's a thousand pages
that has to be voted on like today yeah
or tomorrow no one has time to discuss
that and I get it that there's staffers
that run the numbers and put those
things together but guess what when I'm
in a POS when I'm in a leadership
position of course yeah I have my
staffers and my subordinate leadership
put things together and I trust them but
I still need to go through those numbers
and assess what we're spending the money
on and that's clearly not happening you
can't do it you can't do that on a
thousand page bill in 24 hours you can't
do that
so that's what that's that's what's
happening inside of our government right
now and we as voters apparently we're
okay with it because we keep voting the
same people in there
yeah that that becomes a complicated
question as to why we keep going for it
I think a big part of it's not the only
part and in a conversation like this
there's a certain amount of
simplification you have to do just to
have the conversation but the velocity
and volume of information can be
leveraged as a weapon I see people do it
on social media all the time Trump is a
master at this where he's just going to
give you another crazy thing to deal
with you know 45 minutes later and so
each thing more crazy than the next and
just you just sort of get numb to it
same thing you give somebody a thousand
page bill in 48 hours to go through it
uh you're going to skim you're just
going to try to find out like what are
the things that I know they're trying to
sneak in here I'm going to look at that
I'm going to ignore everything else and
then once it's a part of the government
man getting rid of it is very hard now
you said something though that I want to
go back to um so you were saying that
what's more important than my ego
America this is where I start to get
distressed so I grew up in the 80s and
be America was the best as an American
obviously and I always believed if you
live in England you should think England
is the best if you're in Japan you
should think Japan is the best India
India is the best but if you're in
America you should think America's the
best it's your team and it that was just
like obvious that America was the best
it was in all the movies I mean the just
the the Heyday of all of those movies
where PS it was a guy with an accent
nine times out of 10 Schwarzenegger
whoever that was American so you know it
wasn't n necessarily homegrown but it
was this ideology that we could all
believe in around freedom and that you
could rise from the bottom to the top
all of it so that idea is tied to
something I can't remember where I first
heard this but the idea that we all need
to kneel before something and if there's
nothing to which you will kneel you're
you're going to get caught up in your
ego and so I'm very curious to know one
what is it that you think people ought
to kneel before whether
it's the family unit the American flag
whatever and then in a world now where
you have Americans that hate America so
much there was a kid I forget what um
what school but there was a a high
school kid who was told he had to remove
the American flag from his car because
it was considered offensive I was just
like what that's crazy if I was to try
and figure out something that I think
people should kneel before I would say
freedom and the reason I say that is
because there's some people that there's
some people that would choose to kneel
before God there's some people that
would choose to kneel before the country
there's some people that would choose to
kneel before a different God there's
some people that would choose to kneel
before science and Academia and and I
don't think that I or anyone else has
the authority to tell
people what they worship what they look
look up to and what they kneel before so
therefore there's only one thing that
protects you to do any of those things
and that's Freedom so if you're going to
kneel before one thing in my opinion it
should be freedom and you have the
freedom to kneel that gives you the
freedom to kneel before whatever you
want so that's what I think on that case
on the other case of
why people might start to
[Music]
lose sight of the fact that America is a
is an awesome place is because they're
spoiled we're we're super spoiled we're
super spoiled in America it's It's
amazing
And if you you know if you've got like
I've got kids and if you know I think if
my kid says the Wi-Fi the Wi-Fi in my
bedroom is I only got two bars in
there guess what
I'm I'm a good dad you know what I'm
saying right if if if we're complaining
about like oh the Wi-Fi in my bedroom
isn't that good you go to another
country there's no Wi-fi there's no
bedroom there's no
bed so we're at that point where we as a
nation some people in this nation are
complaining about the fact that they
don't have Wi-Fi in their bedroom or
they don't have strong enough Wi-Fi
signal in their bedroom when they forget
the fact that there's some people that
don't have Wi-Fi some people don't have
bedrooms some people don't have beds
some people don't have houses some
people don't have roofs so
metaphorically
look what what what is going on in this
country well all kinds of stuff there's
all kinds of people with all kinds of
different ideas and they're saying wild
things and they can say
them and they have the right to say them
and that's okay so what protects
people's ability to say those things
freedom and what protects Freedom
America it's your first amendment right
you could say what you want that's
what's happening so just like a spoiled
kid that you know I I wanted the
convertible Mercedes dad right that that
actually happens you go and talk to like
some rich 18-year-old kid that got a
Mercedes for their birthday and it
wasn't the convertible they're
mad so do we have some of that in
America yes we do
yes we do there's places in the world
right now if you go into those places
you do not have these freedoms you do
not have these freedoms you can't kneel
before this God or that God you can't
participate in Academia there's all
kinds of parts of the world where you
don't have these freedoms
so I would recommend when someone when I
talk to someone like that I don't say
you're an idiot and I say well what is
it you don't like about America CU
America is far from perfect America's
flawed just like any person's flawed
we're America's made up of humans human
beings are flawed human beings make
mistakes there's there's all kinds of
things that America has done that are
absolutely terrible absolutely
terrible
yeah and while we when we do things that
are
terrible what what do we do do we
continue down those paths no we try and
fix ourselves we try and fix ourselves
and if someone you know if Tom was a
drug
addict and now he's clean and you come
to apply to a job for a job with me do I
say you sorry you were a drug ad I I I
don't trust you I don't like you or
maybe you just failed out of you dropped
out of high school and then you went
back and you got your GED and now you
graduate n no you you quit high school
so that means you're no good to me no
people make mistakes and we as a country
have made mistakes but we try we strive
for we strive to be better and on top of
striving for to be better that whole
time we've done our best to protect
Freedom human Freedom that's the most
valuable that's the most valuable thing
in in in
life is is freedom so we it's very easy
to forget that it's very easy to forget
that in America especially it's it's so
easy to forget that because we abs
absolutely take it for granted we
absolutely take it for
granted we do whatever we want you know
it's interesting I I I gave a speech the
other day and I was talking about life
liberty and the pursuit of
happiness that that's that's that's what
we're founded
on and I was talking to some veterans
and and what I was saying is that that's
what
veterans put on the altar of
sacrifice life liberty and the pursuit
when you join the military you're not
it's not about your Pursuit of Happiness
anymore you're going to do this job
that's what's going to happen Liberty
you're not going to do what you you
don't have freedom they they they it's
shocking that's the shocking thing about
going to boot camp in the military is
your your freedom is gone your freedom
is gone your Pursuit of Happiness is
gone you're no longer look and I'm
talking about boot camp of course
eventually you I have had I had the best
times ever with my friends in the
military but you go to boot camp that
Pursuit of Happiness Is Gone the freedom
that you had you you're going to get
dictated what you're going to do what
time you're going to wake up what time
you're going to go to bed what you're
going to do all day that's going to get
dictated to you and finally life you are
going to put you're going to you're
going to possibly sacrifice your
life for Freedom so that's what the
military does very small percentage of
people join the military
normally normally military people
appreciate Freedom why do they
appreciate freedom because they had it
taken away they were put into a job
where it's like you you don't have very
much Freedom
anymore and like I said eventually in
the military there's you have to have an
open mind to have Victory like there's
there's a bunch of things but when you
go to boot camp all those things are
taken away from you that's one of the
reasons why military people generally
are very
patriotic they've had those things taken
away from them part one part two they've
gone to other parts of the world and
they've seen what other parts of the
world are like especially parts of the
world that are run by tyrants that have
have no freedom and when you see that
you get home and you're very
thankful so what do I kneel before or
what do I recommend people kneel before
or what could we universally kneel
before I think the answer is freedom are
you surprised that we have tried to
bring freedom and democracy to countries
that don't seem to want it am I
surprised no because just like any other
leadership situation if I try and impose
my way of life on you you're not going
to like it that's not freedom and that's
what happens we've we've we've done a
poor job in some cases when we gradually
introduce things when we when we
allow freedom to flourish without
forcing it down someone's throat look
what's your favorite
food let's just go with Chinese to make
it easy like specifically oh orange
chicken and so egg fried rice I'm going
to take orange chicken and EG egg fried
rice and I'm going to cram it down your
throat that's less fun doesn't no matter
how good a food tastes it doesn't taste
good when you cram it down someone's
throat so when we go in and we try and
impose our culture on other cultures
they reject it of course they do we're
trying to force it down their throat
when we gradually or when freedom is
gradually exposed to other
cultures over time they nod their head
and they say yeah that looks like a good
deal we we want to get in on that and
that's why that's that's that's what
caused the spread of democracy
throughout the world not we didn't
spread democracy through the
sword when we try to spread democracy
through the sword it doesn't work or it
seldom Works what you have to do is show
people what's out there show people the
opportunities and and allow them to find
their own path yeah agreed values have
to find their way into culture otherwise
and freedom I would say is is simply a
value that we happen to hold very
aggressively in the west the thing that
maybe makes me more pessimistic than you
um long term I think we're going to be
fine but I really do for the first time
in my life anyway feel
that in the west specifically here in
America we are adopting ideas and values
that do not lead to human flourishing so
uh if if somebody's trying to map my
thinking they they have to understand
that's what I'm pointed at and then they
would have to understand what I think
leads to that freedom being just a huge
part of it and I believe any culture
that doesn't have that is not as close
to human flourishing as they could be
I'm not saying that it's a bad place to
be I've been to some countries that
don't have that uh and certainly it's
lovely but I think there is a reason
that um we've been able to create the
things that we've created the level of
prosperity the level of growth the fact
that so many people from all over the
world want to come here uh is for the
ability to choose what they kneel before
I think that's a a really important
concept uh but I'm watching what's
happening in America and I see people
that the value system that's burning
through culture is now one of I would
much rather be safe and in fact I want
to step back what do you think people
are trading freedom for right now if you
agree that it is its Primacy as the
defining value of America is slipping uh
which I certainly believe that it is
what are they trading it for is it
safety is it power is it something
else I would say that you have to have
limitations on things and that's just a
constant it's a constant sort of
balancing act
between freedom
and I guess for lack of a better word
discipline but but law you have to have
Law and Order and and and that has there
has to be some level of structure and
rules that people are going to follow
and that that component expands and
contracts you know with like I said a
pend a pendulum that's going to swing
back and forth it expands and contracts
and sometimes they impose more laws and
once laws start getting imposed usually
at a certain juncture people say wait a
second you've gone too far with these
laws we don't we don't want these laws
anymore and you go back in the other
direction to where all right now we wait
wait somebody needs to put some
restrictions over here because this is
totally out of control
so it's a balancing act and and what we
have to realize is
that we're going to bump up against the
guard rails and it happens and and laws
get put into place that shouldn't get
put into place and and then they get
rejected and all laws get removed and
all of a sudden things get a little bit
out of control so I I think what you're
witnessing I don't I would say that it's
not necessarily A a
drift towards tyranny which sounds like
you're talking about a drift towards
tyranny very much so yeah I think that
there's a the guard rail that prevents
us from going into tyranny we we'll bump
into it and when we bump into it we get
straightened we get straightened back
out there's
there's plenty of
Americans that recognize
when that when the when the control and
the order is being imposed on them and
it's getting to be too much and they
push it back and say yep that that one
we're not buying into I it was an
interesting you know during the the
during the pandemic the level got I
think I I think it kind of reset some
some
parameters because there was a level of
control that was imposed and I think
most Americans had
grown trusting enough of the government
that they said well I guess the
government's trying to help out here and
you could see that in the beginning
that's kind of what most people thought
the government's trying to help out
they're doing their best and then as
time went on you start to get the people
the guard rail that protects Freedom
they started to get louder and louder
and say hold on a second and and I mean
what do you think would happen if they
said hey there's another variant of
covid right now and we're going to lock
everyone down again what do you think
would happen uh I think there would be
massive protests I think there would be
no lockdown I think there would be no
lockdown I don't think that I think it
would become hyper Regional I think that
uh if you're in a predominantly Blue
State like California where people still
sometimes wear masks here which I'm I'm
just what uh so I think it would become
tribal and people that back themselves
into a corner by saying no I stand with
it it had to be this way and all that
now they have congruence they will lock
down other places will be like
absolutely not Over My Dead Body never
again and now you've got the people that
like there were those guys that had the
gym that just refused ref and refuse and
refuse I don't know if they finally got
arrested they were find and stuff and
now you have them to look to so you can
be like okay I want to be like that I'm
not going to be tricked this time so I
think it you you would have rival
factions now there's I I always want to
remind myself things how how big are the
factions percentage wise well so the
country breaks almost exactly 50/50 so
then the question becomes how intense is
the Spectrum on either side I think it's
a very small number of people that will
take to the streets but living in La man
in 2020 from my balcony I actually
watched La Burn yeah and somebody posted
uh an image of my house and said burn
the rich and so it was like this is real
like you you can feel like when a mob
breaks did you see that recent footage
of the um girl that got her head beat
against the pavement I saw it there's
something that happens when the crowd
snaps oh for sure and for however long
period of time they're not human per se
it it just becomes the mob and so I
agree with you I think our democracy's
robust I actually don't have fears about
that I think those fears are way
overblown but I do think at the street
level it could get pretty nasty pretty
fast and maybe it's just these quick
spikes punctuated but um yeah I I can
feel that we're testing the veracity of
the guard rails and that makes me
nervous I won't even say that I see the
bolts wobbling which I think some people
look at January 6 and they're like the
bolts are about to Shear off I don't
have that same sense but it does make me
uncomfortable and this is exactly what
happens Joo here is my worldview MH
everything is is uh built up from the
ideas that a populace takes on board and
makes their invisible value system they
don't realize they've done it it just
becomes an idea and this is why when you
ask them about it most people they can't
answer and their argument falls apart
and people laugh and like oh look how
dumb they are that's the wrong way to
look at somebody that is a person who is
in the grips of a bumper sticker they
heard an idea that's memeable because
it's simple and therefore it can spread
and now when you ask me I have a simple
retort and I just say the whatever the
slogan is that's what happens and so
when freedom is the slogan I feel great
when Live Free or Die is the slogan I'm
here for it
uh when it becomes authoritarian slogans
which I'm beginning to hear I get very
uncomfortable and so again things are
almost never as bad as you think they're
going to be they're Never As Good As you
hope they will be so you're probably
right that we just bash up and against
these
things but I'm a a just obsessive
student of
history when it breaks it breaks so
terrifyingly that I I have made myself a
promise that I will not be one of the
people that remains silent and so maybe
I'm speaking up a little early maybe
it's a little ridiculous but if you read
the gulg archipelago or ma the unknown
story and you
realize 100 million people killed like
in horrible ways humans are capable of
tremendous evil and I never want to lose
sight of
that yeah
um there's a lot
of there there has to be there's a lot
of personal
sacrifice that would have to
occur that to to to for things to to
actually break like for instance it's
it's shocking the American Revolution is
shocking because the guys that led the
American Revolution were willing to
sacrifice their way life which was they
were a bunch they like the wealthy land
owners they were the rich guys they were
making money for the most part and they
decided you know what we're not going to
be under this Tyrant anymore we're going
to fight they they normal normal humans
go eh dude I'm not look I you know I'm
going to kind of stick with what I got
that's how that's how things do slowly
drift over time but I when you've got a
a plentiful food supply when the people
that are rioting because they've because
of the misjustice they've suffered but
they're doing it with a $1,200 cell
phone that they're filming everything
with there's a lot of things that
there's a lot of sacrifice that would be
have to be made that people aren't
aren't people don't people wouldn't be
willing to make they might make it for a
night and they you know during during
the riots and everything there was like
those sacrifices might have got made for
a night but that was about
it that's actually a really uh
comforting take I remember when the Chaz
chop yeah thing was happening and it was
like this is not going to end well this
is going to devolve but I never read it
as oh yeah they stopped having fun
pretty quick and they backed off no
other reason than that actually when it
happened as it was happening I was like
oh
yeah let's see how long this lasts
because people people take for granted
the infrastructure that we have in the
country people take for granted the the
remember the couple scenes from the Chaz
or the chop or whatever when something
bad was happening people in the chopper
yelling call the cops call the cops it's
like yeah so people talk a big
game but there's a lot of sacrifice that
would personal sacrifice that would have
to be made and and in my mind the people
that are that would actually be willing
to make that sacrifice is the ones that
would stand up to protect freedom
and people that are would trying to
impose tyrannical rule in
America I don't think they I don't think
they would have the willingness to
sacrifice it's a really interesting take
um George Washington is certainly who I
thought of when you were talking about
the um people that fought the British
because to your point he was wealthy uh
and I remember there was a period where
he was like Bill building a new foyer or
something in his uh house back in
Virginia um to host parties and things
like that and he's literally looking at
plans on the battlefield and sending it
back home and for him it was this is
this is my only way to sort of stay sane
is to remind myself I'm G to do this I'm
G to fight for our freedom because it
matters that much to me but one day I
really do want to get back to that and
it becomes comes this really magical
moment in our history and and look just
so I don't have to I try to to predict
the comments whenever I can yes I'm well
aware that George Washington was a slave
owner uh obviously horrendous that that
is a cultural moment more than anything
else anyway we'll set that aside I I
understand that but you also had a guy
that for years and years and years lived
in the muck in the cold constantly
risking his life putting himself out
front there were times where bullets
would go through his jacket like this is
not somebody that you know stood at the
back and let his men um be at risk when
they had to cross back over the river
and in one fight in the uh in the mist
and everything because they were trying
to escape because they knew they were
about to get slaughtered he was like I
will not cross over until I'm the last
person to do so and people were freaking
out and they're like please like we need
to protect you have to get AC cross he
wouldn't do it anyway becomes the first
president has the opportunity to affect
L become the king of America people ask
him to they want him to stay uh and he
does his terms and he says no I I
remember that space that I was building
that I used to fantasize about on the
Battlefront I'm now going to go do that
thing I don't want the power and that's
the kind of thing like it's like in The
Lord of the Rings when the one elf holds
it for a second she turns into like
almost like a demon all powerful and
then she calms herself down and hands
the ring back and said I needed to know
if I could pass that test where I could
hold the ring know that I am now in this
moment all powerful I could kill
everybody before me and go rule the
universe but no I'm going to I'm going
to hand the ring back
and those values to me like the things I
just said like that borders on
pornography for me I'm just like that's
so rad like I want to I want to be that
kind of person and I will not claim to
be but man do I aspire to that that to
me is really cool and yet I know if I
were to hang an American flag outside my
house you and I know a person I won't
call him out on this podcast uh he was
here at the house and he was like oh I
hung an American flag at my house I was
like that's going to get ripped down and
he goes it already
has and I was like I hated that that was
predictable and then I hated that it had
come true but all the things that I just
said is what the American Flag
represents for me but because I believe
bad ideas are sweeping across the youth
mostly the American flag now represents
the one part of that conversation where
I was like yes I acknowledged that he
was a slave owner and so if I'm right
that ideas matter then it becomes very
important that the right ideas get
propagated because the bolts in the
guard rails in my estimation are the
ideas that people believe in and if
those ideas go the guard rails
go well I guess I have a little bit more
of a posit attitude than you and the
fact
that I I really I believe in
Freedom and I believe that
freedom
wins I believe that I believe that
freedom wins and so as I see the guard
rail get hit as I saw the see the bolts
start to come loose as I see people's
minds start to explore the idea of
tyranny and control and
authoritarianism I
believe
that
freedom and
light defeats that
Darkness all day and look it's a battle
it's a battle but it's a battle that
that freedom wins because I think that
inherently human
beings especially
Americans H but human beings want to
have
freedom and is there a part of human
beings that wants is there part of some
human beings that wants to control other
human beings yes there is there is is
there a part of some human beings that
wants to make sure that other human
beings are free yes there are and in
again this is these are my beliefs you
asked about my principles and and my
guiding philosophy I believe that
freedom is superior it's the superior
mode of human existence and because it's
the superior mode of human existence it
wins it it just wins and again it can
be tumultuous it it's a battle it's a
fight there's
blood
but it wins is that in the long Arc of
History it wins or in the any one
human's lifetime they can expect it to
win it's the long Arc of of humanity and
look it can get snuffed out for extended
periods of time well I mean we've we
have seen that in our lifetime you know
we got to see the Berlin Wall come down
we got to see you know we got to see
what it was like when you don't have
freedom and as as John F Kennedy said
we've never built a wall around America
to keep people
in we don't have to do that
here they have to do that in those
countries or they had to do it in those
countries they still do it in let's say
North Korea right you're not allowed to
leave we don't have to do that in
America we have to build a wall to keep
people out because everybody wants to
come
here so that idea of freedom is is a
powerful thing and I believe that it is
the I believe it's I believe it's part
of human nature and yes there's part of
human nature that wants to that that
there's some part of human nature and
some human beings that want to control
their people but they don't have the
they don't have the for lack of better
word they don't have the right they
don't have the right to do that and so
you can try look and and if we break
this down to a smaller scale you work
for me I'm your boss I can rule you
tyrannically right I can say I want you
showing up at 6: in the morning I want
you to have this stuff done for me you
better work you you don't leave a minute
before 5:00 at night I can be a
tyrannical leader like that for you and
I can control you and by the way if we
have 20 employees and I can be a
tyrannical leader for all of them and
guess what they will have to listen to
me for a while
but eventually you go hey man I'm going
to start my own company you guys want to
come with me and every single person
says yep and what happens in these
tyrannical countries over time
eventually and and and like I said The
more Extreme Measures that are used by
the authoritarians to keep and subdue
human Freedom the longer they can the
the more they can prolong their eventual
downfall and so when I look at a country
that's being run in a tyrannical manner
I think yeah they're going to prolong
they if they're very authoritarian if
they're not afraid to use violence if
they're not they're not afraid to just
kill people like they did in the Soviet
Union hundreds of millions of people or
in China like oh we we're going to
people are going to die we don't care if
they do that they can suppress they can
suppress the the the Instinct for
Freedom that human beings have for a
certain period of
time but I don't
believe that they can actually
extinguish the flame of freedom I don't
believe it's possible to extinguish the
flame of
Freedom
infinitely that that flame can't you can
subdue it you can suppress it and you
can do that for
generations and maybe I don't I don't
know if this has happened maybe you can
you
can get control of that of that instinct
and subdue do it to a point where where
it becomes a a nominal Factor but even
then even then man you know there's
people in the
world that that little Ember of freedom
is like what is in their soul and it
doesn't matter what you do to them I
mean we know these these these are our
Patriot Patriots that formulated this
country that said Give me liberty Give
me liberty or give me death that's what
they said you couldn't under threat of
death you couldn't extinguish the Ember
that was burning in their soul for
Freedom so can you tamper it down yes do
I worry about anybody or any system
truly being able to
extinguish the spark of freedom in the
soul of mankind I don't really think
that's possible I don't think that's
possible I love that man and maybe the
slight pessimism I have is only one of
time scale um I again just you look at
enough history and you start to see uh
guess what nature does not care about
any one person's life and so yeah there
might be the long Arc of History I
actually do believe bends towards
Justice it's just that is of cold
comfort to one of the people people that
is you know snuffed out at 15 or
whatever because the tyrannical
government comes in was like we didn't
like something your dad said at
Parliament today and so now you're dead
too um there's just so many crazy
stories like that so I'm I am very
inspired by what you were saying like
literally I could hear music playing in
my mind as you were talking like I am so
motivated by that stuff um and am very
much a person Lord knows I hope I'm
never tested um but I like to believe
that I am a person that would sooner die
fighting for freedom than that would
just roll over and accept a tyrannical
government um I don't beat that drum too
hard because untilt tested I'll just
assume I'm uh G to be weak in in the
wrong moment but I do need to remind
myself not not the path I want to walk
uh so yes all of that's amazing I just
think it's it's a very cold comfort and
so in any one moment I think um it
matters whether we have a lot of people
like you or we have who who would die
clearly willing to Die For Freedom in
fact let me ask you when you were in
radi were you fighting for Freedom or
was that something
else yeah we
were we were and on a strategic level
that we were talking about earlier was
that what we were fighting for no we
weren't fighting for freedom on a
strategic level there was no threat to
my family's freedom in America
so from a strategic level we were
implementing the policy of the United
States government that's what we were
doing however on the ground at a
tactical level in the city of raditi
there
was extreme tyrannical
elements that eventually became Isis but
at the time was known as al-Qaeda in
Iraq and what they were doing was
oppressing violently oppressing the
local populace in that City that cowered
in fear because they did not have the
capability to stand up to the
insurgents and we did we did have the
will we had the capability and we also
had the capability to
help train the local
populace
to step up and eventually handle the
violence and the insurgence within their
own city
so we liberated that City from the
insurgents and when I say we I mean the
incredible soldiers and marines that
were on the ground with us the Iraqi
soldiers that were on the ground with us
the Iraqi police that eventually took
over that
prevented their the insurgence from
coming back into ratti the local tribes
that United with Coalition forces to
stand up and take care of their own
neighborhoods because they wanted to be
free so were we fighting for freedom in
radi yes we
were and we won yeah I would imagine
that would be very hard to do something
so dangerous to see people dying to take
life and not have a pretty extraordinary
why um did you guys talk about that like
would you rally around like this is a
battle for Freedom these are the bad
guys they are oppressing raping
murdering and we're going to stop them
no r y was a very simple one the enemy
the insurgents in that city were killing
Americans first and foremost they were
killing US soldiers and Marines then you
go to two or three Memorial services for
a 23y old Soldier or a 19-year-old
Marine you recognize that there's
sacrifices that are being made and we
know that we could help and then on top
of that the civilian populace in the
city of ratti you know there's like two
components of your emotions that get
pulled at one of them is oh they killed
a a freaking 19-year-old marine or a
23-year-old Army Sergeant or a
30-year-old Army Captain who has a
family and then on top of that you see
what they do to the civilians you see
what they do to a a 14-year-old girl
where they rape an abuse her then they
then they behead their father and then
they skin the mother alive that's what
they did Jesus so it it doesn't take if
you're if you're a good human being and
you're over there the wise is
self-evident it's evident as soon as you
see these things that are happening and
you're part of a part of a a task unit a
sealed task unit you're part of a army
company or Marine platoon or whatever
you see that happening and there's
there's no need to sit down and do a
daily discussion about why we're doing
this you know why we're doing this we
we're doing this because there's evil
and the evil needs to be stopped and
we're here we have the power to stop it
we have the capability to stop it and
we're going to stop it that is super
heavy
when somebody
dies if you're consoling whether it's
their fellow brothers in combat or their
family members um me as the outside lay
person who's never actually gone through
that it's interesting my brain goes to
they died to protect Freedom right
something that in the reality of is
hopelessly
generic what do you actually turn to is
it um they were courageous they
protected their brothers they like in
that moment where somebody who loved
them comes smack up against the the just
pain of it all how do you make sense of
it yeah it's
it's yes I've had those conversations
and yes the answer is number one they're
protecting their friends and brothers
that's what that's what they're doing
and on top of that they were doing the
right thing for the right reasons trying
to protect the civilian populace from
from demonic
evil and that's what it is you know you
and it got it became more clear when you
saw the activities of Isis what they
what they did in in
mosul but those same elements came from
raditi they came from fuah before that
they so the these were the same people
they just got a different they they
rebranded so yeah that's what it is how
do people become evil I mentioned
earlier that there's some people that
have you know the tyrannical bent to
their personality and they want to
control other people I don't I don't
know where that comes from I don't know
where that comes from I don't know
whether it's nature or nurture or
combination of both I I would imagine
it's some kind of combination of
both
but it's
there do you enjoy history I do enjoy
history so have you read about um the
wild west and as America begins her
expansion and especially coming up
against the commanches have you read
that part um that I mean look this is me
God it's always interesting having these
conversations with you because you've
lived it and for me it's just stuff in
books but um that opened my eyes maybe
more than anything to the circumstantial
cruelty of humans and
what would happen on both sides of that
was horrendous in ways I can't imagine
from skinning people alive raping them
kidnapping them killing them torturing
them like on both sides uh finding a
pregnant woman and cutting her fetus out
and um slicing it up in front of her I
mean just what is happening things that
I would otherwise not my it is a pure
failure of my imagination like I never
would have thought through those things
so it's interesting
uh it feels to me so Soulja niton um for
people that don't know him wrote a book
called The gulg archipelago he was in
the Russian
Googs and uh he writes this book about
his experience and he he creates the
what is now a pretty famous line the
line between good and evil runs through
the center of every human heart and I
found that distressing when you start
looking at history at okay how do people
break bat and I think I mean going back
to my central thesis I think think
people get caught up in ideals and
there's no doubt the Meli Massacre shows
you can have one guy that's like what
are you doing stop killing immediately
and then everybody stops but you also
have those same ordinary men two minutes
before killing innocent
civilians and it's it maybe some of the
slight difference that we see this in is
that like I'm so afraid of how the mob
breaks I'm so afraid of how an idea can
Gra a person or a group of people and
for a minute they just are suddenly
doing horrendous things that you can't
imagine uh there's a book called
Ordinary men uh about I think it was a
Polish I forget it it was they went to
Poland okay they were cops before that
and then they get sucked in by um
Hitler's forces and they're trained to
kill people in just the most horrendous
ways humanly possible um and and they
end up doing it and going from ordinary
men to just savages savages on a level
that I can't comprehend so yeah I do
think that maybe I think that the human
psyche is maybe more fragile than you
think it is or maybe I'm just focused on
a more narrow timeline because I swear I
am optimistic I love people uh but even
I like as I have more of these
conversations find myself representing
the more like I'm a little unnerved part
of the camp well the
both those cases this a leadership and
you're right in in the mili Massacre
there was a leader Lieutenant William C
and he his attitude was he had a
terrible attitude he had obviously a a a
vein of evil in his soul and he led
those guys to rape mutilate and murder
about 500 innocent people in that
Village and so all those people were so
malleable the troops were malleable to
go along with that and as you mentioned
it was Hugh Thompson who was a
helicopter pilot that flew over saw what
was happening intervene went back to
headquarters and said hey they're out
there massacring people right now you
need to stop it they made one radio call
and said stop killing people and
everyone immediately
stopped so what does that mean that
means that when leadership leads people
in the right direction they will do good
things or they will do evil things and
that that's exactly what happened there
now a little bit more positive thing is
when when those events are viewed from
the
outside people recognize that it's ter
it's it's it's atrocious it's a war
crime it's so it's horrible and and same
thing when we now what what what is it
that intrigues us about the the book
ordinary men what why is it why is it
read to this day because people look at
it and go okay we got to watch out for
that everyone says we got to watch out
for that as an individual human and as a
group we don't say how do we do that
again that's not what we're saying so we
say oh that's a warning Unit 731 have
you read that book about the Japanese
what the Japanese did to the to the
Chinese that's it's the same It's
actually an even more extreme level of
evil it's it's medical experimentation
absolutely
heinous so when you have leadership
that's evil they will lead people in an
evil
direction and you know in those cases
they get viewed from the
outside when people when people get out
of that
mob they look at it and say this was
wrong even the guys that were in mili
the the young 20-year-olds that were in
Mei like yeah we I lost my mind it's
obviously it's horrible they didn't look
at it and say oh no it's kind of cool
they didn't say that
so again a little bit of a you might
think that the mob leans a little bit
breaks a little bit bad I'm GNA in my
opinion look can the mob break bad for
period of time yes and this is something
I teach leaders all the time when you're
in charge of an organization you're a
mob leader you're in charge of the mob
but you can't be in the mob because if
you're in the mob and the mob starts
doing things that are they shouldn't be
doing and you're in the mob you won't
see it you can't be in the mob you've
got to be outside the mob look sometimes
when you're a mob leader and the mob
starts doing they start doing positive
things you've done it in your companies
where everyone's doing the right things
everyone's moving in the right direction
you don't have to restrain the mob you
can even encourage the mob a little bit
but even then you can't get into the mob
you need to take a step back you can't
be in the mob when you're in a
leadership position you need to be
outside the mob then if they do start to
turn start doing something negative you
can stop it
immediately so as a leader you can't get
caught up in the mob you need to be step
back you need to be
detached if you're not detached you're
going to be emotional you be caught up
in the Mayhem and you're going to allow
things to happen that shouldn't be
happening you're not going to see what
you should see so we as leaders have to
take a step back detach look at what's
happening and and actually lead not
follow all comes back to leadership so
let's step back we uh did some
Consulting for Trump let's do some
Consulting for Biden so you walk in to
this company called America and the CEO
is Biden what advice do you have for him
well I I think it might become pretty
evident at this point that the things
that I'm going to tell Biden are the
same things that I was going to tell
Trump I I'm but is that in reality
because if the what I expected you to
say
was this is going to be hard with
somebody that I'm not sure is
functioning at the level that he needs
to function yeah okay well from that
perspective yeah I I guess I kind of
jumped the jumped ahead a little bit or
I gave the benefit of the doubt that you
know I had somebody that was had the
cognitive capability to to to understand
what we were talking about and yeah um I
what I would probably do is talk to him
and see where he's
at certainly from
the from the outside it it doesn't look
like he's got a great you know cognitive
awareness of what's happening so I would
want to yeah want to talk to him and do
an assessment of where he's at from from
a mental perspective and and see what
we're dealing
with I think that's pretty
straightforward all right let's assume
that it's like okay uh we can see over
the years you're obviously off a step
but let's say that his ability when
there's not a lot of stress he can still
process the information he's still able
to lead in accordance with his own
principles and all that so you walk away
saying okay I you know we're we're not
dealing with Dementia here we're dealing
with Decline and so we're going to
manage that how would you um I've heard
you talk before like know thyself you
have to understand what you're good at
what you're not and so yeah what would
you say assuming for the sake of the
argument it's not it isn't dementia but
it is it's a performance decline well
actually I think I think that
conversation whoever consulted with that
Administration is already doing that
because clearly you don't see Biden out
answering questions he he doesn't do
press conferences like they're not
exposing him to scenarios where he's
going to have the opportunity
to say things and and and not say
things that are going to really be bad
and so he just has you know he's very
insulated from from interacting openly
with other people and you know I watched
the State of the Union Address
like I was I was surprised that he was
able to actually carry the whole thing
so they did a good job of getting him
some good rest getting him some good
supplementation or something to to get
him very kind to get him up to a point
where he could deliver you know an
hourong address and you know he's
reading from a teleprompter so it's not
that hard
but you know they were able to pull that
off I think I think that it's back into
hiding and yeah if I was if I was the if
I was the consultant that was brought in
I would say yes let's keep him from the
public view keep him from interacting in
any large
capacity
because when he does speak when he does
get out there when he does get asked
questions he's not he's not really he's
not that coherent and so it I I would I
would mitigate that as much as possible
yeah makes sense let me ask if you knew
that we were going to go to war with a
country and you wanted to use
psychological warfare either to um
nullify them completely or at least
weaken them a little bit what would be
certain ideas values beliefs you would
try to pump into that country to weaken
them
militarily is this a leading question uh
not really but I find that it is it's
really again the driving force for me is
ideas this is all ideas okay and so yeah
um here's what I would do I would I
would not put a
single value into that country what I
would do is I was put opposing values
into that country and I would try and
divide them so they're arguing with each
other so they hate each other so they
rip each other apart that's what I would
do I would fuel the fire of divisiveness
as much as possibly could so whatever
little granules they had that separated
them I would emphasize those I would
grow those and I would cause a civil war
that's what I would do how often are you
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I suppose it did turn into a leading
question do you see uh any of those
similar traits happening right now with
social media being sort of the self
inflicted wound
100% 100% that's we're we're destroying
ourselves when someone is listening to
this right now and they're a far right
person or they're a farle person and
they're listening to this right now and
they're
saying um I can't believe that Joo said
that about Trump I can't believe Joo
said that about Biden I can't believe
Tom is is hinting when you have this
anger and it and it's polarizing you
you're you're just you're you're falling
a victim you're falling a victim to it
instead of being like Oh Tom's got an
interesting perspective there well gez
what that must be weird when you see a
picture of your house and City's on fire
and they're saying kill the rich and
you're a rich person in one of the
houses that they're identifying
that damn that that must feel weird
instead of saying you're damn right what
do you need all that money for Tom right
so we that's what that's what social
media's been doing and again it's just
playing on human psychology because if
someone said put a picture of your house
and
said
that's I bet that person worked
hard no one's retweeting that no one
really cares but if someone puts a
picture of your house and says kill the
rich people are going to ret that that's
emotional it's going to strike a
nerve saying oh that's a good
architecture no one no one's retweeting
that very few people so we're we're
trained and we're psychologically
impulsive to retweet what makes us
emotional either very angry or very
triumphant if your house was on fire
hell yeah here's a picture this rich
person's house they're losing their
house hell yeah that's triumphant I'm
going to repost that so yes social media
is not helping our country and if I was
an enemy of this country I would do
everything I could to fuel the fires of
division within this
nation do you think that China's doing
that with Tik Tok yes oh [ __ ] this is
actually an issue I haven't thought
about uh tell me more well it's not just
Tik Tok I think that when any of these
you know what I'm sure you've heard
these figures that the groups there's
groups on Facebook that 90% of of their
members come a Russian bot farm and
youve I'm sure you heard those stories
Rogan had guests on there that talked
about they set up like a like
a patriot march across the street from a
black lives matter March and in
somewhere in
Texas two group these uh social media
groups some some
patriotic people on one side and some
black lives matter folks on the other
side they set up Marches On like the
same
street it was all just fabricated and
then supporters of those two elements
going to show up going to cause problems
but the the the the the pages that set
up those marches were not
Americans so this is what's happening
and we're buying into it Americans are
buying into it Americans are buying into
saying don't listen to that side don't
listen and our politicians are fueling
it too because they're trying to shore
up their support as rigidly as they
possibly can so they fuel it as well and
they say Trump's the threat to democracy
and Biden's the threat to democracy and
that's what they're doing dude wait
Biden's a threat to democracy all
right Trump's a threat to democracy oh
all right so our own politicians are
fueling it social media fueling it
foreign interest absolutely fueling it
everyone has a big ego so they think
they know everything even when they
don't know anything
so they dig in in their positions and
once they're dug in their positions they
get attacked so that makes them dig even
more it's it's
uh that's the phenomenon that we're
living in right now do you see I don't
buy into it by the way like when I see
some some rhetoric inflammatory rhetoric
it has no impact on me I go oh yeah I
can see that's inflammatory rhetoric I
always say I'm a when it comes to like
online sales or even salespeople like
trying to sell me I'm the worst person
to sell anything to you know when they
hit me with all these things it's like
yeah I I know what you're doing
I hope that more people start to
recognize what is happening to them when
they have a strong emotional reaction to
something that's been created to give
them a strong emotional reaction you
shouldn't be having a strong emotional
reaction to things that don't involve
your immediate family how's that sound
that's interesting is that a rule for
you no I set it off the top of my head
but if I'm looking at a piece of
news it's
propaganda it's propaganda there's very
few sources of information right now
that aren't aren't woven with some kind
of propaganda and some kind of agenda in
them so therefore if you know that you
learn to look at that for what it is
it's a piece of information that has
been
doctored or spun or manipulated to give
you an emotional reaction to affect your
assessment of what's actually happening
and if you don't know
that you're going down the path
following a leader that's leading you to
a horrible place if you recognize oh I
see what's happening this is clearly
written in a way to make me emotional to
make me share it and retweet it and
comment on it that's how they wrote it
that's what they did that's what they
did and they're good at it that's why
you're seeing it so stop it look at it
detach from it don't get emotional about
it try and understand what the facts are
but don't allow
their perspective and not even just
their perspective it's not their
perspective you want to understand other
people's perspective don't allow their
warping of information to warp the way
you think that's what people I think a
lot of us in America are falling victim
to that
and the the the fact that it's so
readily
available the the idea of an infinite
scroll the the idea of likes and
dislikes the idea of clicks the whole
nine yards it's all it's all led us to
to this point where what we're producing
for consumption of information is highly
emotional highly polarizing and that's
what's selling for lack of a better word
right now yeah I think the average
person is is ridiculously easy to
manipulate because the human mind works
in a certain way you're very famous for
this idea of Detachment uh that's
clearly going to be part of the answer
to what I'm about to ask but how do you
form your opinions so that you're not
just sucked into what has the most
emotion what's most viral what's most
simplistic um how do you take in data
actually seek to understand the other
side and then still form an opinion what
does that process look like I I think
one of the premises that I kind of avoid
is actually
forming an opinion or having an opinion
that's formed because that means it's
not moving
anymore and I don't like to do that I
want to have an open mind I want to say
I I want to look at any any idea or any
situation or any piece of information
that comes in and think that this is a
perspective that's going to change I I
talk a lot about a statement about being
in the military which is the first
report is always
wrong and there's a reason that the
first report is always wrong because Tom
when you're in the field and you send me
a report that says we're under attack
we're going to get overrun there's
hundreds of other enemy out here that
report is going to be wrong not going to
be completely wrong but it's only your
perspective you only see you're only
seeing what you're seeing you're being
impacted by the emotions of the
situation that you're in because you're
scared and you're adrenaline fueled and
you're emotional because you just lost
two guys like there's a lot of reasons
why what you're telling
me is going to be through a lens that is
not 100% focused and it's not it's it's
not able to capture everything that's
actually happening so that's what that's
what goes on with the news the first
report comes in I look at it it's like
okay there's a report I don't know if
it's right or wrong there's some data
points guess what in a little while
there's going to be more data points and
a little while after that there's going
to be more data points and I'm going to
start to see some granularity in a
picture eventually but even when that
picture appears to be clear I know that
there are other components and
perspectives that I'm not seeing so I
don't complete that picture in my head I
have an image and I recognize that that
image is probably going to change and
that issue whatever it might be is
probably going to morph still in my head
okay so you've got all these ideas
flying at you how do you uh you're aware
of the potential manipulation you're
aware you don't want to close your mind
but I assume you also know that at some
point you have to make a decision on how
you're going to act so how do you decide
what ideas to keep and what ideas to
reject I call this the iterative
decision- making process which means I'm
going to make the smallest decision that
I can I'm going to take the smallest
step that I can and then I'm immediately
going to reassess the feedback that I
get from that decision that I made and
what does my view look like now so this
is this has been this was very helpful
for me when I was in the military this
has very been very helpful for me with
my civilian companies and it's very
helpful when I'm thinking about issues
that come up in the news so when I see
something I go
oh I guess I got to make a small
decision you know if we're out in the
field and we start taking fire I don't
say hey everyone run away no I say oh
everyone
let's Tom go to the rooftop and tell me
what you see so you go to the rooftop
and you get a better picture you say oh
Jo there's just one guy with an AK-47
cool all right cool we don't need to run
away in fact we can move forward and I
can continue to make small steps like
that in the business world you don't go
hey there's a a part of town we're not
in right now I'm going to go buy a
building hire nine employees to run the
retail
area no I'm not going to do that I'm
going to put a kiosk on one of the
corners down there that's what I'm going
to do I'm going to see what kind of
crowd we get and see what kind of
product we sell and then if that goes
well yeah in you go two years maybe I
buy a building cuz it's a a hot market
after I put five kiosks in all the
neighborhoods and realize it was great
and it's the same thing with these
whatever issues we might be discussing
from a political perspective or what
what should we do in Ukraine what should
we do in Gaza what oh I don't say well
just run away from Gaza let let let the
let Hamas have it or I contrarily I
don't say oh just level Gaza because
Hamas attacked no it's like oh well
let's do an assessment how about we get
for control over the situation same
thing with Ukraine well okay Ukraine got
invaded what should we do attack Russia
well that doesn't sound like a good idea
world
war3 the ukrainians how can we support
them how much support do we give them if
we continue to support them what's the
outcome look like it's going to
be is it going to be significantly
better if we support them or might it
get to a point where it's not
better and I'm going to make small
decisions I'm not going to make big
giant decisions I'm going to make small
decisions and I'm going to continually
assess and that's what I'm doing all the
time and that's what a good leader does
do is looks and makes small adjustments
and pays attention to the feedback and
this is where our egos get
involved because I say oh we gotta this
happened in oh we we took fire Tom we're
going to attack and now we start to
attack and Tom starts going hey actually
Joo I think there's a lot more people
than I thought there was going to be and
I say doesn't matter I said attack we're
going to attack and we keep going
forward and we all get
killed because I didn't take the
feedback of oh Tom first said there was
one bad guy up there now he's saying
there's 38 now he's saying there's 300
and we only have 30 guys that's not good
odds we don't want to get in that fight
but I made the decision so we're going
forward and people do this stuff all the
time instead of saying oh you know what
I was actually wrong about this hey I
was wrong
about putting in kiosk in that
neighborhood yeah yeah there that's not
our Market we're going to shut that
thing down it's going to cost us another
eight grand because we had to rent the
kiosk and everything but we're shutting
it down it's not like oh I dumped $4
million into this building and we're
going to make this work we're losing
money we're losing money we're losing
money we got a business we're bankrupt
why because I didn't make small
decisions and make adjustments based on
those
decisions yeah it's very intriguing to
me that you're so known for your
military career but this stuff is now
applying so directly to business and it
really really tracks the idea of um the
first note I took when you were talking
about that is just getting the
information you're trying to figure out
what's what and so being humble enough
to know I don't have enough data points
and so I'm going to gather data with an
open mind I'm going to figure out what's
going on I'm going to place a small bet
but as small as I can to get a realistic
answer before we you know overcommit
really really smart um you brought up
Ukraine and Russia um obviously knowing
that you're very much on the outside of
this but how in terms of the small moves
that you'd want to see made um how do
you want that to play out if that feels
like something you can talk to or how do
you think it's going to play
out well how do I want it to play out I
want there to be peace and I don't want
any more of these kids to get killed
even if we have to compromise they have
to compromise well yeah I think you you
have to compromise you have to
compromise
and I think that they will end up
compromising whether they want to or not
the
ukrainians and it's going to be a huge
price and blood and treasure for the
ukrainians and and for the Russians as
well
so it's a terrible situation it's a
terrible situation and
it's you know it's
it's a lot of lives being
destroyed um because
people couldn't sit down and talk and
figure out a solution war is a test of
wills and the reason you go to Wars
because you're not sure whose will is
stronger because if you knew whose will
is stronger you'd settle it at the table
and not on the
battlefield and
we we make mistakes on interpreting
other people's wills and how strong
their will is and you know the Vietnam
Wars an example I like to give on this
is the the battle of the idang valley
was one of the first big battles that
took place
and Americans killed the the Vietnamese
the North Vietnamese on a scale of about
150 to1 whoa yeah and after that battle
the the thought was oh well we can win
because we just have to kill 150 of them
for every one of us to die and that's
how we'll win the war we just Prov we
can do
it and what we didn't realize
is
R1 meant more to us than their 150 meant
to them
so they were willing to sacrifice they
had the will to sacrifice at a much
greater rate than we did and we killed
millions of
Vietnamese and we lost
58,000 and every one of those is a
tragedy and at the end we said yeah
we're we're leaving and you can have you
can you can have this country is
basically what we said we didn't say
that but in effect that's what we
said so when you sit here and you look
at Russia and Ukraine it's a test of
Wills well the ukrainians this is their
home this is their home this is their
freedom which I talked about
earlier so how strong is their will
going to be it's going to
be as it's going to be strong it's going
to be as strong as imaginable and then
on the other side you have Russia how
much does
Russia how much does Putin care about
the level of sacrifice that's made we
don't know but we're starting to see I I
would say we kind of know we're more
familiar now that he's not that
concerned so that's what we have we have
a test of Wills because each side
thought their will was going to be a
little bit stronger and and guess how we
find out we find out by fighting and we
find out by killing each other until
it's
over
so again I think that the
ukrainians are their will is
absolute but they also lack the numbers
and unfortunately they're in a war of
attrition because when you ask me what I
think of it or what I think would be the
outcome I was in the beginning of the
war thinking that Ukraine would fight a
Guerilla
War an asymmetric war
and they have entered in more of a of a
conventional war and this is this is a
conventional War for the most part very
quickly turns into a war of attrition
and now it's we have more people than
you we can make our ammunition faster
than you and look America can keep
sending bombs and guns but at a certain
point somebody's got to wield those
bombs and guns and it's if it becomes a
war of attrition which it is absolutely
morphing into that outcome is not going
to be good for the ukrainians because
they don't have the same number of
soldiers stilling the same number of
people what sucked them into a
traditional
conflict
I I think it happened
because they they were able to achieve
some some what appeared to be and what
felt like conventional victories so I'm
sure you saw images of of of patrols and
convoys of Russian Vehicles going in and
being bombed and being and and it looked
as if oh this almost looks like
conventional Warfare It's these tanks
against a smaller number of Tanks but
against conventional type forces
maneuvering against the Russians and
they were
winning which they did but when you
knock out 20 Russian
tanks and you feel like it's a win and
it is a
win until the Russia sends 20 more tanks
or when you
kill 50 Russian soldiers
and you lost Five Guys you think hey
that's a win and it is a win it's a
tactical win but then the Russians send
50 more soldiers and 50 more soldiers
and 50 more soldiers and 50 more
soldiers
so War should be the absolute last
option and I I think it got moved up in
the in the in the list of options
unfortunately yeah it does not feel
globally like uh people are waiting
until the last second for war right
about now uh I would have said 10 years
ago probably that maybe we really are at
the end of History that's certainly how
it felt didn't feel like there was going
to be any of these sort of conquering
Nation Vibes uh anymore and obviously
that that tweet would have uh aged very
poorly had I sent it so the question
becomes how do we get them to pull back
so
again you talk about Detachment so
they're trying a strategy probably not
going to work if you went in to advise
them I assume it would go something like
uh guys play this one out doesn't end
well you're not going to be able to
match them troop for troop so I get it a
lot of reputations on the line that this
was the right play but we just have to
look at the data and say this isn't
going to work then what go go back to
gorilla Warfare would that be their only
shot gorilla Warfare yep gorilla Warfare
and do you think there's just too much
much political Machinery in the way for
that to happen or why haven't they
figured that out themselves I mean and
don't get me wrong they are doing some
Guerilla type Warfare but they also get
drawn into oh this is our city we're
going to hold it is that the problem
like it's a raccoon trap that type of
thing that type of thing has happened
this is our city we're going to hold it
we're going to fight for it it's like if
you fight for it and you kill a thousand
Russians but you lose a 100
ukrainians okay there's going to come a
thousand more
Russians and I'm sure you've seen
pictures the the young kids that are now
putting their uniforms on in Ukraine and
they're going to go fight this is this
is what happens human capital and yes if
I was there advising them I would be
telling them to fight a gorilla war no
Guerilla War doesn't feel good if you're
if you're a country like Ukraine these
are proud
soldiers in a country that has a trained
military it is it is the it's almost the
antithesis of the way they would think
to fight and the way they would want to
fight they would want to fight manto man
on the battlefield and Guerilla Warfare
is not manto man on the
battlefield it's roadside bombs it's
snipers that's what it is and if you've
been on the receiving end of roadside
bombs and snipers it's horrifying
so but you'd have to kind of culturally
change them
to have the attitude that we're going to
fight an asymmetric war against a
numerically Superior enemy which is what
they're facing who's the greatest
Guerilla force in history that you've
studied the greatest Guerilla force in
history uh there's there's there's tons
of them I mean you already mentioned
some of the some of the Native Americans
that out there on the planes they were
they were outstanding obviously you know
the the the Viet Kong they were
outstanding They Carried train uh tanks
over a mountain range that's insane to
me yep yep
and I mean the history is just filled
with I
mean look look at
Afghanistan that was they didn't that
wasn't a conventional war that
was we left
Russia left Russia left England left so
three and0 are they good at what they're
doing yeah they're good at what they're
doing it also shows you how powerful
asymmetric Warfare is because uh a force
that's untrained that doesn't have the
technology but they have
time I'm sure you heard that about the
Afghans it's like the Afghans were like
oh yeah you guys have bullets you guys
have bombs we have
time this is where we live that's what
the that's what the ukrainians have
that's where they live they have
time and to try and fight the Russians
in that way is bad and then once that
happens the Russians what the Russians
should do is say hey look we don't want
this kind of
beef we don't want because
you try and occupy a country which is
what Russia would have to do or occupy
those those
regions now you've got occup OCC ation
forces occupation forces get picked off
for a year 3 years 5 years 10 years and
eventually they go all right we don't
want to do this anymore that's what
America said in Vietnam that's what
America said in
Afghanistan look we we don't want to do
this
anymore
so that's the way and and I
actually you ask me how I think this
will play out I think that is how it
will play out it's just going to take
a much larger amount of casualties to
get there because I don't think the
ukrainians are going to surrender or
anything but they're going to get to a
point where they can no longer attempt
to to
fight face to face against the Russians
so they're going to be forced into a
into a
Insurgency and then it'll be a long
drawn out process I that was when people
had originally asked me about what was
going to happen I said this is going to
be a 15-year War it's going to be an
Insurgency by the ukrainians in the
occupied zones of the
Russians and that didn't happen it
didn't happen because it turned into a a
conventional War very much a
conventional War not a total but a much
more conventional
war that is not as advantageous to the
ukrainians do you have a read on Putin
what do you think are his Ambitions
there's been much debate about um is he
an imperialist who's not going to stop
until he's gobbled up all of Ukraine is
he really just trying to create a border
from uh NATO do you have a sense I could
tell you my sense I don't know I don't I
don't wouldn't put much weight on my
assessment
um so I whether it's worth even chiming
in on I I don't know I I mean we the
West
definitely pushed Putin and cornered him
and Putin is the type of guy that you
can't corner you need to give him a way
out you need to give him a
a way to save face and I don't think we
did a good job of doing that um he's a
proud guy and when you corner someone
that's proud this is why people are
worried about him using nuclear weapons
because they know that much about him
he's a proud guy he's proud of his
country and you Corner a guy like that
you don't get him a way out they do dumb
things ego right yes indeed all right I
have to ask because I actually want to
know uh you get elected president and
and uh Putin's like all right I I'm
going to beat this guy in Jiu-Jitsu and
then we we can call the whole thing off
mhm can you take him yeah yeah he's he's
he's a j he's a judo practitioner and so
he's gonna be very good skilled on the
feet and he's gonna have Judo also has
excellent groundwork as well but how old
is Putin right now I think he's 70 or
pushing yeah yeah he's gonna have real
problems with me if that's what it's
going to come down to um but I think
yeah
I I I I would take I would take Putin
now somebody uh I asked for uh fans of
yours for things they wanted to ask that
nobody's ever asked and one of them was
how hard do you choke so since we're
talking about uh tapping Putin how hard
do you
choked uh I mean till people
tap yeah I mean it's it's not that big
of a deal that it's weird you know for
you like choking is a big deal but for
people that do Jitsu it's just it's like
how hard do you shake someone's hand
it's like that's just the way things go
and that's life and you get choked and
and Putin's an old guy and if a
70-year-old guy had to fight me it would
be a bummer you know like if I had to
fight a 27y old Jiu-Jitsu Champion it'd
be a problem for me right and and I
actually do that pretty regularly and
it's usually a problem
so uh all right so there are two major
conflicts in the world right now um
what's your take on what what's going on
with Israel Palestine uh is that going
to play out tactically as um they just
keep bombing from the air have they
already started backing off from that I
think I heard they had um are the
tunnels going to be the problem like how
does this one play out the way it's
going to play out I I think that Israel
is very determined to completely
eradicate Hamas do you think they have a
metric by which they judge that like
they obviously don't have a roll call of
who everybody is and you go find them
and when the checklist is done you're
done or do they um I bet they have
pretty good Intel I mean
there's once you start having Intel
sources inside of a country like you can
know a lot about what's going on and I
bet you they have a pretty good roster
you know whether they have a roster
that's down to a man I don't know but
they they know and I think they've
determined that they need to eradicate
Hamas and I think they're going to
eradicate Hamas and I
don't it certainly does not appear
through their current actions that
they're going to relent at all until
they've gotten Hamas eradicated do you
think the international pressure for
them to uh dramatically drop the body
count will force them to go tunnel by
tunnel house by house or do you think
they're just going to be like ah [ __ ] it
like we're just going to keep bombing
the bomb you still once you bomb you
still have to go in so they're going to
have to go in one way or the other and
so I I think they're going to make the
judgment on that question question not
based on International pressure I think
they're going to make that judgment
based on when they are tactically ready
they feel like they've got it to a point
where they can go in and do the street
to Street hous to house tunnel clearance
then then then they'll do it but I don't
I think the inter the international
pressure came so quickly that it didn't
like Mount the international pressure
didn't mount it just it pegged it
redlined and it's just staying there and
I think Israel's sort of saying okay
well that's the international pressure
it's redlining but we're going to keep
doing what we're doing until we get this
threat completely eliminated do you have
fears of that
escalating it's going to cause years and
years of strategic problems for Israel
because they're going to have to you
know people are going to seek revenge on
them for the next hundred years so do I
think it's going to be an issue yep
might it be some short-term thinking for
them
yep is that the mode that they're in
right now after they have their you know
people massacred yep how close have you
looked at that
situation in terms of the historical
context
decently is this intractable on anything
remotely approaching a realistic
timeline like sure maybe over a thousand
years it unwinds but is this something
that can unwind in the next two
generations no not there's zero options
zero options what is the sticking
point um lack of
forgiveness and
egos so if you and I have a problem and
whatever happened in the past we can't
forgive each other we will not have
resolution and there's been a is on both
sides and
there's enough people on each
side that will not forgive that the
people that will not forgive and will
not move forward will continually drag
the rest of
those both sides down will they drag
them down or will they suck them in suck
them in drag them down whatever you want
to call it yeah well it's interesting to
me there's a very big uh Chasm between
those two ideas so idea number one is
that hatred is so powerful and I can
rally you around your hatred and the
misery the squalor that you live in and
I can pull that front and center and I
can say they've done this to you and not
only um as as an act of divine Justice
must you strike them down um but it's
the only way forward for us to finally
have what God wants us to have we have
to do this that's sucking them in um
sucking them down would be uh hey please
stop don't don't strike them again for
the love of God like let us just live
our lives and then they go strike anyway
and then you get bombs and so I I am not
close enough to that problem to
understand like whether the populace is
like no we we elected them this is who
we want to lead us and they are right
and this is just and this what's
happening to us now is is merely more
proof of the Injustice of of these
people that have held us down for so
long uh I don't know if that's how they
read it or if it really is like oh my
God like if we could just get leadership
in here that wasn't um constantly
provoking them we could finally achieve
balance of some kind the answer is yes
both those things are occurring and
there's there's both people that are
wishing that they there's people in in
both Israel and in Gaza that are wishing
that the damn governments would stop and
we could just like carry on with our
normal lives and and Shake Hands there's
people in both those elements I mean you
see protesters you see protesters in
Israel you don't see them so much in in
Gaza right now uh but there is there is
there was like I saw images and videos
of people in Gaza lashing out at Hamas
especially when it comes time for Aid to
get delivered so there's there's people
on both sides that that that would just
assume hey we've had enough of this
let's shake cans and let's carry on and
there's also people that are
completely so what was that well that
was sucked in or is that sucked down
okay that's sucked down and there's also
people that are sucked in on both sides
that are like nope the only way that
this is what they did the Israelis right
now October 7th and whatever other the
countless other atrocities and then the
the Palestinians and their land and
their atrocities and you take both those
things things and they're not going to
stop they're not going to forgive
they're not going to forget and they're
going to fight all right let's say that
you were living in a portion of America
that became qualitatively like Palestine
is right now that feels like warlord
territory for me which you have somewhat
jokingly said if things ever got bad
enough I would just become a benevolent
warlord uh I would take over and you at
one point you said something like I
wouldn't say that I was stoked if we
were at end of days but uh I'm ready for
it um what what would you actually do
like so I you may not know this about my
background but uh I actually came up as
a writer film guy uh I've written
screenplays comic books all kinds of
stuff like in and I love the quote about
a science fiction author that your job
is not to forecast the automobile it's
to forecast the traffic jam so you're
trying to figure out like okay what I
know know about humans how how is this
going to play out so it I get I'm asking
you to imagine a fictional scenario but
in said fictional scenario knowing what
you know about you and other people and
what it would be like because I'm going
to assume you'd be trying to lead people
to something better and more hopeful and
um but that you actually have the
ability to be violent to be dangerous to
um back down the the dogs at the door so
what would that really look like
if there was some sort of an apocalyptic
event that took place where where
legitimately I mean I'm trying not to
say what would if you were in Palestine
what would you do but like if you were
in a situation just like that where
you've got bad Warlords and they are
holding the population Hostage to some
extent uh it's rubbled the [ __ ] out man
I mean this place is just you're you're
literally getting MREs dropped from the
sky and that is the only way that you
guys are subsisting you just watched
however many years of billions of
dollars of Aid pour in and it all went
to military tunnels and stuff like that
there did not go to projects that make
the people's lives better uh knowing
that you're um the core thing that you
build up from is freedom um ready go do
you start like being that charismatic
leader that organizes people or do you
find the person that's going to be the
mouthpiece I would say you've got so
much credibility I'd expect it to be I I
hate to um drill down like this but are
you talking about a hypothetical
situation where there's a apocalyptic
event and now there's Mayhem going on or
you talking about if I was a Palestinian
right now in Palestine or sorry in
Gaza what would I do those are like very
different questions then then we'll
start with you're in Gaza right now but
you're you are
Palestinian so that you're you're one of
the people what would you do well the
the other assessment or the other
assumption that we have to make is
that I'm Palestinian I'm in Gaza but I
have an open mind right so I I my mind
is my mind is is free to assess what's
happening so yeah if I was there right
now what I would do is I would start
looking around going okay the situation
that we're in is absolutely horrific and
we cannot continue down this road what
is happening all right do
the through the Palestinian people
around me my friends my family what what
what's happening with them right now
what do we need to do so that we can
secure and stabilize our lives and our
like small area our building our city
block whatever the case may be I'm going
to get that thing stable and secure and
one of the ways that I'm going to be
able to do that is my family my friends
my close friends we're going to start to
secure my area and then guess what I'm
going to go across the block to the next
people over say hey what's going on with
you guys
where where you at how many people you
got how many how many able humans do you
have here because we got to make some
things happen number one we got to
figure out a way to get the food that's
getting dropped onto the beach I want to
help us get that done and I want to do
it in a in a way that we can help as
many people as we can right now we got
injuries happening because people are
fighting each other for that stuff so
let's get some control over that so
that's what I would do I would start
very small with my family and my
immediate friends and getting some kind
of control over a small area once I have
control over that small area now I'm
going to start expanding that and what
we're going to be looking to do is we're
going to be looking to stabilize things
as opposed to dis destabilize things and
and so what do I have to do that means
the Hamas guys that are down the street
will be like hey you guys you guys are
getting bombed you're not going to get
us bombed so you don't come over here if
you go come over here we're going to
have a problem and I'm going to go to
the border and talk to the Israelis and
say hey you guys are bombing us don't
bomb here this is going to be a problem
if you bomb here so don't here's where
we're at so I would start to try and
communicate and I would start to try and
build relationships with these two
opposing elements so that I could best
support the people that I'm trying to
now take care of man uh I love that this
is the beginning of something very
interesting so I don't know how far
we'll be able to take the hypothetical
but at each of the things you're
describing I'm able to track how you
view the world in a really interesting
way uh so your first safety right so
maso's hierarchy of needs we're going to
just make sure everybody's sheltered
they've got food they've got water uh
then we're going to try to stabilize
access to the resources that we're going
to need then we're building alliances
whether it's with the person next door
or whether it's with with the um the
other military and in fact as you were
going to first Hamas and then the
Israeli military I could feel you
reaching out to who are the bodies that
matter like what what swings the needle
here let me identify those things go out
and do it it's what's so interesting
about that analysis is that is exactly
what you do in business except nobody's
shooting at
you um but in terms of like okay where
are we at now we need to stabilize we
need to gain access to and business
capital I need the resources I need to
know what my run rate is how far how
long can I either lose money or how much
profit am I making to be able to scale
and grow um keeping an open mind getting
ego out of the way knowing who to talk
to but also there's a little bit of
threat in the [ __ ] that you say which
uh I just come back to is I think a big
part of the reason that people you're an
archetype for people and that they keep
wanting you to run for president because
they hunger for that archetype they
hunger for a strong man with the
tactical and strategic ability to do
that who has a set of morals which I
think is so important which I think
you've called principles
um yeah that's kneeling before something
which you didn't specifically say in
this but it feels like you're kneeling
before the family the people on your
team I'm here to serve you I'm going to
make sure you guys are okay I have to
imagine that would be a lot of the
rhetoric as your Coalition building like
look treat us well don't do anything
[ __ ] stupid we've got your back
you're going to be well taken care of
um how am I doing so far yeah trying to
get people to think more strategic about
what's happening and and hey this is
where we are right now we can lash out
over here or lash out over there but
where does that get us in the long run
where does that get us strategically and
if it's not going to help us
strategically then we shouldn't be doing
it so that that ties into what I would
be saying to my people
what would you do because here's the
thing I think in reality you would run
into um you have an implicit goal in
that which is I want everyone here to
thrive that's my goal and so that's what
I'm working
towards uh you're going to run up
against people who their goal is to
punish the enemy what would you do when
it's they understand your goal they just
don't buy into it they have a totally
different goal how would you handle that
yeah what's what's your long-term
strategic goal look like because you're
saying you want to hurt the enemy what
does that do where does that get us
because we can go hurt the enemy tonight
and hey we can go hurt the enemy on
October 7th right that's exactly what
they did they they hurt Israel badly
where's it gotten them so that's what
it's it's getting people to think
strategic instead of think
tactically and getting people to think
with logic instead of think with their
ego and their emotions which is not easy
and you can't just you can't just say
don't get emotional you can't you can't
pull emotion and ego completely out of
the completely out of the calculus of
your decision-making but you have to
wait them a lot less because I've got
people same thing with the Israelis the
Israelis can't be like hey they attacked
us so but you know we can't get
emotional we need to have a measured
response like no it's like you have to
put that emotion into the calculus my
wife and daughter and son were just
murdered and we need to do something
about it now like okay we got to we got
to take this it's real the emotion is
real so you got to put that in the
calculus at the same time you also can't
let emotions be the heaviest weight in
your decision-making process you can't
let your country's ego be the biggest
weight in your decision-making process
do does it have to have weight in there
yeah but it can't be the biggest weight
that's now driving you to do things that
don't make sense in a long-term
strategic way yeah that's why to me this
all comes down to goals uh because if
your goal is simply to hurt and kill as
many people as you can on your enemy
side and that death for you is perfectly
acceptable there is no problem with that
uh in fact it is simply the gateway to
Eternal Paradise that's where it gets
tricky uh and probably part of why this
is so difficult to unwind because in the
emotion of they must be hurt Justice
must be served Divine Justice and if I
die in the service of that Justice
that's fine um you now have a loop
because you you don't have a way to back
them out of that by saying well I have a
better goal for you right look at your
son your daughter because my initial
reaction and I still believe the
following statement is true but it's
probably incomplete and probably a
little naive uh but when I think about
whatever the solution is going to be the
solution is going to involve
Palestinians believing that their kids
have a bright future and the they don't
believe they have a bright future all
hope is lost now them believing that
their children have a bright future now
that comes down to definition of bright
future uh and a bright future is being a
martyr that becomes more problematic uh
so anyway I fully acknowledge that I'm
thinking through this I'm so early in my
thought process I do not have enough of
the information but I do think it's
valuable uh for people to leave
breadcrumbs about how they think through
a problem um so yeah very very
interesting all right uh I want to go
back to something that you said a minute
ago you were saying I would go over and
ask how many able-bodied people do you
have you didn't say men and I'm assuming
you didn't say men for a reason what are
your thoughts about female leadership in
battle well in a situation like that
where we've got a limited number of
people and I can take females and put
them on sniper rifles and put them into
positions where they can utilize their
skill sets that they have that's of
course in any when you have an
existential threat you're going to
you're going to need everybody so I mean
that's one of the reasons Israeli the
Israeli military does have prominent
female um members I mean everyone serves
male and female and Leadership
specifically do you see any difference
in um ability at just a general level
well yes all leaders have various levels
of ability but that's what I mean like
on on aages so average male average
female um certainly there's strength
discrepancies but are there
leadership propensities that differ you
know I work with all kinds of male and
female leaders and the good male leaders
and the good female leaders all have the
same fundamental characteristics and
they follow the same principles and all
the bad leaders that are male and female
all have the same terrible
idiosyncrasies and and Egos and
emotional issues and so it's more based
on the individual human being than it is
based on what uh whether they're male or
female uh do you find that guys have a
problem following a female Superior I'm
sure some guys have a problem following
a female Superior and I can also tell
you factually that there are many many
guys that have a problem following male
right superiors so if some if if you're
a guy with a big ego you don't like
listening to anybody and you'll find
whatever thing it is about them oh
freaking Tom is not you know he's he
hasn't been to college or Tom he hasn't
done this job before or Tom he doesn't
even know what it's like to whatever I
can find plenty of reasons that I
shouldn't have to listen to you and if I
can make it because you have uh brown
hair or whatever or make it because
you're a female it's all it's all just
ego talking and it's you're going to
find that that person that doesn't want
to be led by a female is going to have
whatever kind of beef with whatever kind
of person is in that
situation if you were would you have a
problem following a female leader no
yeah no I mean I've got so uh well three
of the bigger companies that I have um
Joo fuel which is a supplement company
our our coo is is a female Echelon front
which is a leadership consulting company
our our coo is a female
so and and then origin USA which is a
clothing Manufacturing Company our coo
is a female So In fairness though you're
the CEO of all those companies so while
you clearly have high level leadership
that are women uh if if you and let's
put it on the battlefield if you had a
um high- performing very competent
female leader platoon leader sure uh
would you have any problem falling in
line and following her the way that you
would follow any male leader of similar
competence so hold on a second you're
asking me right now if there was a
highly competent leader yep that I had
to work for would I have any problem
with it yes if it was female like this
is no Factor this it's it's no Factor
yeah I I agree violently I don't
understand why anybody looks at anything
other than competence so if if a woman
if a anything can lead me to where I'm
trying to get to that is all I care
about I find it very weird that people
don't use as their North Star utility
efficacy like is this going to work or
not I mean the discrepancy that you
already mentioned which is the
discrepancy in combat is the is the
physical component that's the
discrepancy in in a combat situation
is uh generally speaking females are
smaller and weaker and so in
combat that depending on your job that
can be a significant issue and sometimes
your job isn't what you expect your job
to be because sometimes your job is
picking up your friend that weighs 200
lb and then another 200 another 70
pounds with gear on and that's a problem
so so for for when you're talking about
specifically in combat there's a there's
a physical discrepancy
that that that
causes women to very seldomly have the
physical capability to be in combat
units it's why they they're not a ton of
them in combat units I mean there's been
some females have went have gone through
Ranger school um so I think there's been
yeah so obviously there's females have
gone through Airborne School
but there's there's I think there's
there's an infantry
Marine right now female I I
believe but I'm not 100%
sure but that's that that boils down
doesn't boil down to their um cognitive
capacity or anything like that or their
leadership capability it just boils down
to their their
biological uh
structure yeah I mean I partly asked
just so that people can hear you
somebody obviously that they will really
respect at this level um say the the
north star's
competence yeah I think is very very
wise as we move forward as a country
there is a very big potential that we
could face China as a
a either cold war or flirting with a hot
War if something kicks off in Taiwan is
that something that you think about uh
is it is it something that you think is
plausible would you ever want to see
American boots on the ground in
Taiwan definitely not I definitely
wouldn't want to see that but I don't
think it I don't think
the I think the Chinese will
wait I think the Chinese will wait and
let us let
us um let us go to war with ourselves
first and when we're going to war with
ourselves even not not even a hot war in
America but just a a cold war in America
a cold Civil War which is like sort of
what we're in the beginning of right now
and you know it's funny now that I think
about it you know I mentioned that hey
These people aren't willing to sacrifice
in a hot War but we could definitely get
into a cold Civil War here where we
can't progress we can't make decisions
and if China can do wait until we're at
kind of the height of a of a cold Civil
War they could probably get away with
anything and they know that yeah ch is
patient uh that is for sure they think
in much longer time Cycles than we do um
yeah it it will be very interesting
given how much technology comes out of
Taiwan it's so critical it really will
become a question I think of uh if XI
ever feels like he's got time pressure
on him and he needs to make a move um I
don't I'm not close enough to that whole
thing and how X thinks but um certainly
talking to enough highlevel people that
there's some concern even if it's not
necessarily foot on the gas My Hope Is
that the Chinese economy has taken a big
enough hit uh right now that they're
just not going to be in a position where
now would be the time we'll see we'll
see uh I don't like kicking the can down
the road for somebody else just to have
to deal with it I'd rather figure out a
way around the problem certainly felt a
lot better when we were a far more
Global Society uh but the unwinding of
that is very interesting speaking of
that in fact uh you manufacture in the
US so this it is that in some ways a
reaction to the gutting of American
manufacturing as we globalized or it's
100% it's 100% a reaction to that we
took our manufacturing and we sent it
overseas and we are bringing it back to
America so it's 100% a reaction to that
and is that for uh we need a thriving
middle class what's the what's the on
the ground
result you want to
achieve bring manufacturing back to
America because that means you have a
thriving minute uh middle class it means
you have the ability to manufacture it
means you don't have to rely on on
people overseas to make things for you
which is almost where we were at so
there's a whole plethora of reasons I
mean I grew I grew up in New England in
New England all the manufacturing jobs
were sent overseas especially in in the
clothing industry they were sent
overseas
and we have literally bought machines
from overseas and brought them back to
America so we are 100% bringing it back
so that we as a nation can become
self-sufficient again not to mention if
you care about look I mentioned Freedom
a little bit during this if you care
about Freedom at all and you're
supporting companies that
manufacture in overseas sweat shops
whereas basically slave labor that's a
problem and if you support environmental
causes well when you manufacture stuff
overseas they don't care about the
environment at all they get done dying a
pair of blue jeans and whatever's left
over they dump it in the river which
goes to the ocean kills everything they
don't care when they have to put
something in the wash to to to break
down some of the material there's
chemicals in that wash what do they do
with that when it's done they dump it in
the ocean they don't care they don't
care at all they don't care about their
workers getting injured they don't care
about anything and so if you care about
Freedom if you care about the
environment if you care about the
economy if you care about America being
self-sufficient if you care about those
things your goal would be to one of your
one of the primary ways you could do
that is to bring manufacturing back to
this country and that's exactly what
we're doing okay so self-reliance uh is
something I am getting as one of your
drivers I'm IM imagining you standing
before the people that work at your
company there I have done this at my own
company so I know what this is like and
one of the things I always tried to do
was paint what does it mean to work at
the time Quest right what does it mean
to work there what what is the part of
your identity that I want to breathe
life into what's the galvanizing
identity if you have one that you try to
give your workers and I imagine that the
sort of America American Spirit is part
of that literally everything I just said
and everybody that works for us knows
and understands and believes in what
we're doing and in what they're doing
because they're what make it possible
you you have to have people ready to
work and that's what we have we have an
incredible force of people that are that
have these skills that are learning
these skills and that are going to take
these skills and continue to grow with
us so they
all they all innately understand
understand the importance of this
100% that's what we're doing that's
that's why we're doing it and that's
what we're doing that's why we're doing
it and those people are the why the the
people that that that work with us they
are the why we are the
why it's America they all know that they
all understand that there's this is and
and it's actually been awesome to see
because now I'm starting to see a lot
more other companies are trying to bring
manufacturing back I'm supporting as
much as I can but everybody is starting
to look around and say oh yeah we need
to bring manufacturing back to America
and it's happening it's it's absolutely
happening and look Co helped out with
that as well right because all of a
sudden you had the shipping problems you
had the Customs problems all that stuff
made people realize how weak our supply
chain was and good companies looked
around and said that's not a that's too
vulnerable of a position to be in and it
is too vulnerable of a position to be in
not only for a business not only for an
economy but for a nation you can't be
riant on other countries especially
adversarial countries to to allow you to
buy goods from them that's
insanity but
our corporations corporations in this
country
they decided that profit was more
important they decided that if they
could make a pair of blue jeans for $2
less and make $2 more and fire a bunch
of American workers and shut down our
supply chain they decided it was worth
it and they did it and then they lied
because they lied they lied to us and
have said we don't have the ability to
do that anymore that's a lie that's a
lie this is
America this is America we can make
anything and we will and we're going to
show the world that's dope man so as
somebody who also manufactured here in
America at the beginning of quest I
can't speak to it now because I left but
um when I was there all of it in America
and it was awesome now the crazy thing
is I don't know if this is true for you
as well but we were Manufacturing in
Compton city of Industry like places
where people came up hard hard
and to be able to give people a
legitimate business where they had
opportunity to grow and to get health
insurance and um just be a part of
something and especially in the early
days when nobody knew who we were and it
was just like all right we're here to do
something like we're because we as a
company had a mission that we were
really trying to turn Health around and
that we so my wife and I uh have said
for a long time it doesn't matter who
you are today it only matters who you
want to become and the price you're
willing willing to pay to get there and
so we were talking and I was like do we
really mean that or is that just some
cool rhetoric and we were like no we we
really do mean that and I was like okay
then if we mean that we should be
willing to consider somebody for
employment even if they have a felony
conviction and she's like yeah so I was
like went to my partners I'm like what
do you guys think they're like yeah
let's do it so we decided to tell people
hey even if you have felony conviction
we'll consider you for employment we had
people lined up around the building to
interview I had to interview people in
groups there were so many people coming
in we were growing so fast and I
remember telling them at one point I
started what I called quest University
and I said I will teach you anything you
want to know about entrepreneurship and
the reason I'm going to I'll come in
early I'll stay late I'll teach you how
to build a competitive nutrition company
and the reason I want to do it is I
really believe that if you understand
that I care more about your future than
your own mother that you're probably
going to stay here and if you if the
more empowered you get the more likely
you are to leave one fine like if you
can go off and do amazing things in this
world I'm here for it but I have a
feeling that I'm going to be able to
retain a ton of you just because you're
like yo this really matters and this
means something to me and thank you and
dude it ended up being exactly that like
seeing that moment where somebody thinks
um because I remember one kid came in
and told me cuz I would give them like
guys you have to understand like you see
an after picture of who I am now you
don't know who I used to be and it's
just a set of ideas it always comes back
to that for me that took me from when I
was broke and had no idea how to control
my life to now running this billion-
dollar company and I can teach you those
ideas and it will have a similar impact
on your life and this one kid came to me
and he's like but I you know I I just
have a hard time believing in this
because my mom told me that people look
that look like me uh the world doesn't
want them to succeed and I was like
homie listen you cannot think like that
and Kobe Bryant has this incredible
quote booze don't block dunks and I was
like you can get so good at something
that even if people want you to fail
they can't stop you and so the goal is
just to get that good get so good that
nobody can stop you from doing this
thing and so just so many of these guys
went on to change their lives and do
incredible things and obviously Quest
ends up becoming this historic uh run
and partly because we just had so many
people there bleeding to make it happen
it it really was extraordinary so from
the outside hopefully people want to
bring manufacturing back to America but
when you're in the middle of it it is
intoxicating of like the sense of Pride
and creating something and being a part
of something it's it's really pretty
incredible I see the exact same thing on
all fronts I mean ashon front our
consulting company we got people
traveling around the country in the
world teaching people these leadership
principles that's going to make their
life and their business so much better
the the supplement company Joo fuel the
the extent that we went through to make
the cleanest possible product was
extraordinary and everybody on the team
knows that the standard is so high it's
unmatched um the the the energy drink
here like this is just to give you an
indication I didn't want to have
chemical preservatives in it and so the
only way to overcome that was to
pasturize pasteurize the drink which
means heat up and there was no lines
that had pasteurization
tunnels to make the drink in America at
all at all so we pushed back our
timeline almost a year and had a line
built that had the pasturization in it
so we could put the cleanest product out
there that and my standard is like the
the anecdotal standard for me is I want
my kids to have this so my own kids I
want them to drinking this it I don't
want to make I'm not going to make
anything that I wouldn't be happy that
my kids are drinking or consuming and
that's the standard so everybody knows
it there and then yeah at origin
USA say same thing everybody knows and
they know they've got an opportunity
especially you know you go up into well
we got factories in North Carolina we
got factories in Maine those are areas
that were
decimated decimated and now no jobs and
now we've got people that were from that
industry are now coming back and they're
taking that knowledge and passing it on
to the next generation and is just
phenomenal and you have the the the
feeling that you get and we we do the
same thing like hey we we invest as much
as we can into our people and sure they
can look around and go I think I could
go do this myself okay I'll invest if
you you want to go try this go but most
actually almost every one of them says
no we want we're we're in we're on the
we're on the train let's go so it's uh
it's an amazing it's an amazing
opportunity and a blessing to be able to
have this opportunity but I think that
this mentality is is is spreading
because people recognize again due to
covid due to what's going on in the
country I mean one of it's one of the
problems that we have why are people
sitting around looking at social medias
because they don't even they don't have
a career that they are invested in they
don't have a skill set well if you come
and you learn how to work Al Loom and
you learn how to weave material all of a
sudden you got a a job and a skill and
value and that's awesome so I I think
these things they're going to have
impact and they're going to continue to
have impact not just you know from an
economic perspective but really from a
cultural perspective inside the
country So speaking to that meaning and
purpose finding that at work one thing
I've heard you say that um we're looking
at the same data and we're seeing
something very different
is you say I hear all the time that
young men are really struggling there's
something unique going on there's
nothing unique going on this always been
an age that people go through whether
you're back in the 40s 80s whatever it
doesn't matter you're always going to
see it
um I look at the data and the data seem
to suggest that there really is uh
something unusual happening I wrote a
bunch of the statistics down um so
according to Mission Readiness um 75% of
17 to 24 year olds uh back in 2009 were
ineligible for military service due to
lack of Education obesity and other
physical problems that numbers declined
to 71% but hasn't exactly uh gone to a
great number the former under Secretary
of the army Joe reer said imagine 10
young people walking into a recruiter's
office and seven of them getting turned
away we cannot allow today's Dropout
crisis to become a national security
crisis men are physically weaker than
they were 30 years ago grip strength is
down 26 lbs for men age 25 to 29 obesity
rates uh for young men have Skyrocket
for young people have skyrocketed
skyrocketed fewer young men are having
sex that one's a big trigger for me uh
more men are committing suicide which
obviously is terrifying anxiety and
depression rates are off the charts uh
and the military in general just has a
recruiting problem largely for the thing
that I said above but also there's just
a negative sentiment against the
military
um but you look at that and you think
same as it ever was well you know
according to your numbers it's not same
as it ever was so if you think you're a
person that's listening to this right
now and you might be on that list for
one reason or another I got some ideas
for you go to the gym start training
Jiu-Jitsu clean up what you're eating
try and figure out a skill that you want
to learn go learn that skill go be
productive go make money go meet some
girls apparently if you've got some
issues where you're not having sex so I
think these are all things that you can
you can remedy I mean they're clearly
things that you can remedy and as far as
the military goes what they probably
need to do is some kind of a program
where we take people that aren't
physically ready for the military and
put them through a program for four
weeks and you could probably get just
about anyone ready for the military in
four weeks of training maybe six weeks
so yeah that's uh it's sad to hear those
things you know it's probably the reason
that I don't see a lot of it is because
well I own a
gym in San Diego California called
Victory MMA I own a gym and guess what
the Gym's filled with a bunch of people
that are trying to get better a bunch of
men and women and girls and boys that
are in there training learning Jiu-Jitsu
lifting weights doing pull-ups like it's
that's what I see and it's and it's a
lot of them and then obviously the
supplement company you see people all
the time we sell a lot of product why we
doing that well because people want to
get better they want to eat healthier
they want to be they want to have clean
fuel in their system so that indicates
to me that people are shifting in the
right direction and ashalon front we do
events all over the country often times
when we do those events the questions
that we get asked are about being being
physically in shape how to manage your
health how to stay on the right path so
even though there's some anecdotal
information and it's not even anecdotal
even though you've got some facts there
that paint a pretty sad picture I would
go so far as to say we might be at some
kind of a bottom of the trough right now
and people have recognized that that's
where we're at and now people have
turned the corner and recognized that we
got to get back into shape get off of
your phones get out into the gym get
into the field get outside go walk go
hike go run GO train Jiu-Jitsu and go
get after it and I think that is again I
would venture to say that we are
probably at the bottom of a trough right
now and we're climbing out of it and
we're about to rebound and end up higher
on the other side how's that for some
positivity coming at you I like it it
was good it was very as well that's what
I see all the time that's what I see I
see these people I I I have a gym I go
to I see these people every single day
and there's new people signing up every
single day we sell supplements that make
you stronger and healthier and people
buy them all the time that's a huge
indicator of where people's minds are I
think Co helped because I think during
Co people started doing research people
started to recognize how important it
was to be healthy so I think there's
some things that are going to swing
swing us out of this trough and we're
going to be stronger faster and smarter
than we ever were in this country I love
it I'll sign up for that message uh when
people ask me hey I want to get into
business what should I do the first
thing I will tell them very often is get
in the gym and get in
shape why do you want to see people uh
get control of their body that's using
my language but why do you want to see
him get in the gym because everything
else in your life will get better
everything everything else in your life
will get
better everything else in your life why
do you think that
happens you know take take your car to
the shop and get it tuned up it's it's
going to do better it's going to do
everything better it's going to
accelerate better it's going to break
better the radio is going to sound clear
everything's going to be better going to
smell better why do I need my body to be
in
shape yeah it's it's it's it will help
everything that you do if you start to
exercise and I recommend look exercise
whenever you can you got to make it work
I recommend you exercise in the morning
I recommend you get up you get out of
bed you go exercise get on a program it
doesn't matter what the program is and
if you're if you haven't worked out in
20 years and you're totally out of shape
cool start by start by walking start by
doing a 10minute walk 15 minute walk
then a 20 minute walk then a f minute
Jog and then a 10-minute Jog and then
get yourself a pullup bar and start
hanging on that
thing and then start doing a couple
push-ups like just start to
build and every part of your life is
going to get better it's it's not just
oh this knucklehead jonco sitting here
saying your life is going to get better
no you will be healthier you will
be more cognitiv cognitively aware of
what's going going on like your brain is
sharper when you're exercise your you
will sleep better you will think more
clearly everything's going to be better
you'll perform better at your job no
matter what that job is so yeah go get
after
it yeah I I really agree this is one of
those um I think the best thing I ever
did for getting good at business was get
control of my body uh one to get control
of your body you first have to get
control of your mind that helps and then
there's also this really fascinating
thing that happens that when you realize
I showed up every day consistently I
pushed myself to failure I did things
that were hard that were I was very
awkward in the beginning and my body
changed I was able to you know um bend
over and pick up a weight that when I
first came into the gym I could not do
it's really hard to track when you're
getting mentally more capable it's very
easy to see that you're getting
physically more capable and so those two
things correlate for sure they correlate
so when you become more physically
capable you will become more mentally
capable when you become physically more
resilient you'll become mentally more
resilient that that is a that is what
will happen that is what will happen for
sure um talk to me about fear and
compartmentalizing that so this idea of
get after it I love that again another
thing I think people are Intoxicated by
with your personality is um as you've
said many times but people look at Buds
and and it is this mental thing of could
I do it right the number of times I've
asked myself whether would I make it uh
I think 15% or something make it um so
that's part of this um but also just
you've been in a situation where bullets
are flying at your head and you've had
to be calm and detach and step back and
tell people where to go and face that I
could make a call that gets somebody
killed um that you're not playing a game
that on the other end of your gun is a a
human whose life you are actively trying
to take and victory is killing them it's
surreal it's something that that
operators touch a lot but the rest of us
man that that is like the
most
unfathomable I can't believe this
actually happens to people kind of thing
and so the fact that you can control
your mind in that situation is
unbelievable how how do you control your
mind is it just exposure H how do you
get yeah there's certainly some exposure
therapy behind it and and that's one
thing I learned once I once I was
towards the end of my career in the SEAL
Teams and I was teaching and I was
instructing and I was running the
advanced SEAL training what I got to see
was I got to see I got to watch How I
could put somebody that doesn't have
much experience into a pressure
situation and I could watch them fall
apart and then I could talk to them we
could rehearse some things and you put
them in another pressure situation and
they'd be a little bit better and then
you do it again they're a little bit
better and usually there would be a
moment of sort of a profound moment
where I don't know what's a good uh it's
almost like riding a bike you know how
you can't ride a bike and then you
can that's that's what I feel happens
with the ability to detach and take a
step back it's like you can't ride a
bike and then you can or you you you
can't you never stood up on a surfboard
and then you did it's like that kind of
thing so I'd see guys get a little bit
better and then all of a sudden there'd
be a switch that would go and they'd be
able to take take a step back toach
they'd be calm and how do we do that we
put them in those pressure situations
repetitively talk them through sometimes
I'd have to be
like there's Mayhem going on it's a
training scenario but there's Mayhem
going on there's paint ball flying
everywhere there's explosions going off
and I'm looking at you and you're the
leader and you got a look on your face
you're totally overwhelmed
and sometimes I would literally say hey
Tom come here and I I'd take you I'd
pull you into the into the corner of a
building where there's no paintballs
gonna hit you and I go take a breath
and dude take a
breath all right look around take a look
around all right what's your next move G
to be and just by doing that you'd
realize oh my gosh 25 seconds ago I was
totally focused on that one window over
there where I think we're taking fire
from and I had this guy yelling over
here and I didn't know what to do with
him and I I I got someone was calling me
on the radio and I didn't know what that
was about I took a step I got myself
into a spot where I could look around I
took a breath and now I can see yep we
need to flank the guy in that window the
wounded guy is yelling a lot but he's
going to be okay and I need to get my
forces Consolidated on this building and
it would be that
clear
so sometimes I would have to kind of
hold someone's hand as they're detaching
or I'd have to pull them out of the
scenario a little bit so they would de
facto be detached from it sometimes we
take it if you were having a real hard
time as a leader I'd be like all right
Tom you you're coming with me as from
the instructor Viewpoint and now you're
not in the firefight anymore now you're
looking around like why don't they just
go over
there you and I would literally be
standing one foot away from the leader
that's supposed to be making the call
and you'd say to me hey why do why don't
they just go over there and I'd say well
it's easy to see right now isn't it yeah
it's so so obvious why is
that cuz your your your subordinate
leader that's right there right next to
us can't see this most obvious thing why
because he's all emotional he's all
caught up in the scenario he's panicking
and you since you're not in the scenario
you're one foot away and you can easily
see the solution and so can I so what
you need to do Tom is you need to learn
that when you're in that Mayhem you need
to learn to detach take a step back and
look around take a breath and then make
a call that's what you're going to do
and that would help guys to have that
Eureka moment where they went from being
a panicked emotional overwhelmed human
to being a calm detached squared away
leader yeah I think that's really
powerful and um that's something I want
to train more in
myself uh I think it's something that
either I am I have just a mild natural
advantage or uh just maybe business has
put me in that situation so many times
but I'm very sad that the following is a
true story um a couple years ago
Christmas Eve Man Of All Times we are
having a party and uh the guy that we
were gonna play poker and pay a
professional dealer he comes in he
brings a table all that set up the table
I go in the kitchen to get a drink and
my wife comes running in and she's like
you have to hurry uh the Dealer's having
a heart attack and I come running into
the room and the only thing is to do
nothing or deal with it there there's no
gunfire or anything it's just this one
person is now in a very bad situation
and it was fascinating to see the
different reactions in the room there
were some people that just moved away
the fact that they came to get me
instead of dealing with the situation
was already like okay that's interesting
so I go into the room and you just go
into uh I'm I'm a big believer Solutions
ultimately are all the matter so it's
just like okay one we need to assess
what's going on because I looked at him
I'm like he's not having a heart attack
I'm like he's having a stroke and so
stop identify and then you start telling
people what to do you call 911 and come
back I remember being trained on that
call 911 and come back I don't know why
that always stuck with me uh and then it
was you know the person on the call is
like hey you need to start doing chest
compressions and and you just do the
thing but it was I really had this
strong impulse in me I don't want to be
dealing with this and so I had to like
step past that and I needed to have
thought a million times before that
moment just always look for the solution
what's the solution move towards it so
obviously you have to first know your
goal to know what the solution is save
this guy's life okay cool save his life
what now are the Solutions in order to
do that but it was interesting to me
that there's still this tremendous
amount of friction from the moment that
my wife came in and said he's having a
heart attack I wasn't like hurah I'm not
that guy right I wasn't like oh my God
this is great I get approved what you're
just like I hold myself accountable in
this moment to overcoming this friction
becoming solution oriented and doing the
thing but I was like if people don't
sort of pre- rehearse have a plan train
for whatever life is going to throw at
you if they feel the same amount of
friction I feel to not wanting to be in
a situation where somebody is having a
stroke it's [ __ ]
terrifying uh they're going to back off
and so you could just see that happen in
the room where there was uh a small
number of us that had obviously mentally
rehearsed these kind of moments and so
we handled it and then there were people
for whom their rehearsal was I know who
to get if anything ever kicks off and so
they acted accordingly it's very very
interesting and so
um how do like for the average person
that's never going to be in
combat what are the things that they can
do to answer questions like will I show
up in that moment would I do myself
proud they're never going to know if
they'll do themselves proud in buds but
will I be able to do myself proud in
moments where they get hard like um Mark
Divine does something coco or I don't
know do you know Mark Divine I I know
who he is maybe SE uh runs a sort of um
buds for the average person who just
wants to see if they can make it and
it's done over three days or whatever um
what can we do to better prepare
ourselves to know who we will be in
moments of difficulty do hard things
whether that's uh you know waking up
every day and working out whether that's
going to Jiu-Jitsu class whether that's
going to some kind of environment where
there's going to be a stress that you're
not used to what what what kind of thing
makes you afraid oh Heights makes you
afraid cool let's learn how to parachute
oh public speaking makes you afraid cool
let's go do some public speaking going
out of your comfort zone and overcoming
the butterflies that are going to be in
your stomach and the little mini panic
attacks that you're going to have go do
those things and do them as often as you
possibly can and you will get used to
all these little feelings that that that
arise when some pressure situation
unfolds and it it's funny you said that
you you had like a friction of when
you're what well they came in and said
hey something's wrong and you went into
the mode of like okay well we're going
to go solve the problem that's what
you're used to doing you know you were
the CEO of a company how many times say
the manufacturing there's we got a call
from the customer the shipping didn't
happen you you dealt with a lot of
problems a lot of problems and no they
weren't like someone's life was at stake
like it was in this particular moment
but the process that you go through
through we've got a bad situation okay I
can run away from it that's not going to
help I can complain about it that's not
going to help I can Panic that's not
going to help I can find a solution
that's going to help that's what I'm
going to go do and so you go out and you
do things that are challenging and you
will build some muscle memory of what to
do in pressure situations so you don't
panic you don't do dumb things and
there's companies out there uh you know
Tim Kennedy's got a company called sheep
dog response and they do this kind of
training my friend Mike Glover has a
company called fieldcraft survival and
they travel around the country doing
events where you're going to put get put
in pressure situations we have an event
at echam front which is we call it the
FTS a field training exercise so we we
it's very leadership focused but it also
provides some Panic scenarios because
we're going to put you into simulated
combat situations we have a really
highspeed it's basically a laser tag
system but it's a really high speed
laser tag system we have role players we
have explosions going off Smoke Filled
air Mayhem going on missions to go
accomplish and we get to see people
panic people freak out we also get to
see the switch turn where they go oh
yeah I know I can't panic I know I can't
freak out I know what I need to do is
lead Step Up make decisions this is how
I do it this is my protocol take a step
back take a breath look around make a
call we teach people how to do that
that's what we do so the from a
leadership perspective and from an
individual perspective that's why we
created a program like that field
training exercise Echelon front boom you
go in there you learn some basic tactics
but it's not a tactical course it's a
course to
learn how to handle stress and how to
lead in stressful Dynamic environments
and when we get done with that when we
when someone gets done with that course
where they're they got a hostage to
rescue there's explo expion going off
they they're missing people out on the
battlefield there's down men there's
screaming there's yelling they go back
to work on Monday morning and it's like
okay you something's wrong with the
supply chain all right talk to me talk
me through the problem let's get a
solution it puts everything in
perspective and most important they
learn a protocol of how to deal with
stress and how to detach from that
stress and how to lead in those
stressful environments Joo may we never
need need you as a warlord but good Lord
I am so glad that you spend so much time
talking to people and running companies
and doing all this it's really
incredible where can people follow along
on your incredible journey jco.com
that's that's real simple and then yeah
I'm on I'm on all the this social
media atjo willink so Instagram Twitter
X I call it Twitter X now uh Twitter x
Facebook I'm on all those things uh
don't spend too much time on them you
want to come on there and check it out
then check it out but don't get sucked
into those algorithms they're trying to
they're trying to polarize you and send
you flying in some extreme Direction
don't let it happen that they are so
yeah then joof fuel.com origin USA so I
didn't I don't know if I mentioned the
name of the company manufacturing stuff
in America it's origin usa.com you can
get Jiu-Jitsu GES jeans boots t-shirts
hoodies all made 100% in America hunt
gear all made 100% America so yeah
origin usa.com and then ashon front I
just talked ason front ason front.com
that's where we do leadership Consulting
leadership training and outstanding
company I love it right on man all right
everybody if you haven't already be sure
to subscribe and until next time my
friends be legendary take care peace if
you like this conversation check out
this episode to learn more where World
War II looks different than World War II
is that World War II is being fought
through these proxy wars Third Country
battles oftentimes poor or imp
battles