Kind: captions
Language: en
we deliberately confuse maleness with
masculinity and femaleness with
femininity in order to be more
comfortable having the conversation I
actually don't that isn't my hangup
because for me ma male female is easy
right it's when somebody is
using uh male female as monikers for
feeling masculine or feeling feminine
that this gets all tangled up well this
is what I'm
saying these thing I have fale friends
who are very masculine in terms of how
they think and behave I have a female
wife that's like that so I know exactly
what you mean now does that make her
less female no so in other words how you
feel and whether you feel masculine or
feminine is not a determinant of whether
you're male or female correct therefore
feeling female does not make a male
female correct therefore this whole
conversation is pointless false
that's where I would say that it is
deranging as I watch very smart people
either act as if they can't see the
difference in what people are saying
because what we need is just another
word for uh the way that I feel so I map
my internal emotions
onto uh the standard human withd vagina
right hold on the claim that that trans
ideology makes and trans activist make
is that if I say the words I am a woman
I am now
female that is the claim so I may be
arguing for the wrong thing and so if
they're saying that saying it means that
you suddenly have a vagina that's what
self-identification means I identify as
a woman means I feel feminine therefore
the fact that I have a penis doesn't
matter because my feelings overrule the
biological reality is that really what
they're saying yes and I'm there but
hold on how do they explain the penis
it's a female
penis okay so it's a female penis great
suck it that's what they
want suck the female
penis Fair now I will say that uh that
that's what I'm getting at is we we have
to I have to do that no too too funny to
to pass up as a fan of Comedy I'm here
for it uh but that that begs
the point that I'm trying to make which
is we have to differentiate between this
human is male female which I think
because for all of human history that's
what we've called it let's just stick
with that and so we need a new thing
that's like I feel like I believe I have
the internal brain
structure that's probably very
misleading because I could scan your
brain to see it's not true I have the
internal uh brain makeup because it will
be it will be I think hypothesis
hypothesis much better to say I feel
then well we're going to get to the I
feel part but I have a feeling that the
I feel part is nudged by that 20 side of
dice that some people were we able to
truly just map all the Confluence of
things that make you feel masculine
feminine just like my wife there's
something about her from the time she
was little kid she was tomboyish so it's
like she's got a thing that just like
predisposes her to being a little bit
aggressive
um not being as emotional I know some
people are going to freak out about that
but my wife is very um not as
emotionally sober as me which she will
be the first to tell you but way more
emotionally sober than um somebody else
uh that falls more typically on the
feminine Spectrum Jesus this is why we
need words for this so well this is why
Simplicity solves this you I don't think
it does it it really really does I'm
going to listen tell me look maybe I'm
not letting you talk but let's come back
to the female penis I love you so much
talking to you about this is amazing
you've given me all the space I just
want to make sure that I understand
where you're coming from so the trans
ideology claim the trans activist claim
is that self-identification is how you
know whether someone is female or
male self-identification means
Abracadabra
Stacy having uttered the
incantation I am a woman I become Stacy
okay yes and then therefore I am
entitled to be treated in our society
the way a woman is treated I am entitled
to be housed in a female prison I
entitled to go into a female changing
room I am entitled to compete on female
sports I'm entitled to be treated as a
woman because I am a woman that is
completely outrageous and unacceptable
if the claim were I am male but I feel
that I have a set of behaviors that are
our society conventionally Associates
with females and I therefore wish to
wear a dress wish to have my hair long
wish to wear makeup wish to paint my
fingernails wish to uh change the way I
speak wish to dress in a way that most
women
do cool go do it be you but the moment
you make the claim that you are a woman
you are making a claim a a truth claim
that isn't true and B a claim that
entitles you to the certain protections
that we allocated to women uh in our
society which you're not entitled to by
virtue of the fact that you're not
female does that does that work as a
starting basis for this conversation it
works as a starting basis for this
conversation I'm going to steal man
everything you said because that is as I
understand it and I think that there is
a thing a demarcation point that we have
to draw that uh I think
ultimately I I won't prognosticate about
where we end up
uh so I'm going to steal man the
argument let me know if I miss anything
so uh a trans activist would say that
the thing that makes me male or female
is the way that I feel and if I
regardless of whether I have the
genitalia of a male if I feel female and
I say that I'm female then I I am a
woman if I feel like a woman and I say
I'm a woman I am a woman uh and
therefore you should treat me and give
me all the protections that a woman
would get so spaces that are reserved
for women I should have access to that
prisons that are reserved for women I
should have access to that um Sports I
should be able to play in sports and
compete against other females have I
understood the argument yes okay so
operating from that and I will say I'm
I'm talking to everybody now like hey
everybody that wants to have this
conversation there is a conversation to
be had but you really have to begin to
break these things apart now given what
what you just said I think there's going
to be a bone of
contention here here's how I feel that
on the trans activist side there is a
refusal they they've created a category
maybe so what I was going to say is uh
from the trans activist side there's a
refusal to create a category for people
that are in alignment both with the
physical sex of their body and their
feelings no they call those yes yeah so
that's why I stop myself um so what I uh
they're they are um perhaps not being
intellectually honest about how we need
to categorize things so let me walk
through this the the way that I would
want to have a productive conversation
is
um everything in its category so that we
may then talk honestly about the
consequences the second and third order
consequences of these
categorizations so um
one I'm introducing a a new thing to the
argument because even if I'm willing to
adopt CIS which I'm not there's
something about that that makes me feel
manipulated because they're trying to
co-op something that's existed for so
long I'm totally cool for introducing a
new category there's something that I
haven't thought through about why I
don't like the co-opting of something
old that feels um slight of hand so I'm
going to set that aside for a second uh
so I'm introducing a new idea to this
discussion or trying to which is that um
I think that there is there is something
to be said about being nudged and
there's a malleability in here and if
we're not being honest about the
malleability we won't understand why
it's important to get the categorization
right because I'm saying that there is a
uh once we once we say okay the the
biology is pretty clear you're either
male or female and yeah look some things
in the margins pretty fascinating but so
marginal for people that have both a
penis and a vagina which does happen
crazy but true um
setting that aside for a
second everything about the brain does
feel like it's a hyper fragmented and B
that everything's a spectrum which is
why I've always considered myself to
have a slightly more feminine
temperament my wife has a slightly more
masculine temperament and that is one of
the reasons that our marriage is so good
and when I give marriage advice to
people I always feel a little bad
because I'm like well if your wife is
hyper feminine and you're hyper
masculine this is all going to be a
[ __ ] nightmare and good luck because
you guys one of you really is from Mars
and the other really is from [ __ ]
Venus and your alien species and godamn
you can raise kids but holy hell like
the two of you trying to like really um
be each other's soulmates and get all
the things that I'm telling you you're
going to get probably not so much don't
know that's been exactly my experience
yes but are you hyper masculine yeah
okay cool then it can work out he's
calling out my masculinity right on
camera unbelievable because I have an
internal definition of hyper masculine
of the Joo willink is hyper masculine
and if he's able to do it then word
being masculine isn't about having
muscles but
anyway it's not can we agree that there
is a category of human that I call a pub
brawler in the UK and you can take one
look at that [ __ ] and be like oh
I know a lot about you based on the
shape of your head yes okay so I'm just
saying there really are things that
manifest physically that like you've
defined Ulin in a very narrow way I
haven't defined masculinity I have not
made any attempt to Define masculinity
yet okay sorry other than I have earlier
big can I know if viewers are having as
much fun listening as I am talking we'll
keep going cool uh okay so I'm trying to
introduce this idea of nudge ability we
are malleable we we are shapable you can
sway somebody my wife has made me more
masculine over time because she's
actually more into that she probably
takes for granted the part of me that's
hyper communicative and in touch with my
my emotions and able to admit my
insecurities she probably just takes it
for granted but honestly there was a
time in our relationship where she
straight said to me your insecurities
aren't sexy and I quote and I was like
oh godamn so I realized a that's true I
need to [ __ ] toughen up here deal
with my insecurities be a bit more manly
and she was way more into that was she
rewarded them with sexual attention I'm
[ __ ] nudge like you can encourage me
in directions so anyway I want nudge
ability malleability shape ability in
here so that then we have to ask
questions what direction are we going to
nudge people because you're going to
nudge people whether you mean to or not
and seeing celebrities dress their boys
up in dresses you're nudging them
whether you mean to or not you're
nudging you're shoving them so but hey
blue and trucks and all that one could
argue is not nudging is shoving whatever
but let's have that on the table okay so
if we are somewhat malleable
but trying to push somebody all the way
in a direction ends in [ __ ] disaster
I forget the kid's name the set of twins
born circumcised the circumcision
machine burns his penis off uh I think
his name was David or his code name was
David and do you remember the John money
is the guy who did money thank you and
so he said oh doesn't matter blank's
late raise him as a as your daughter
it's going to be fine he'll never know
and of course ends up committing suicide
his brother commits suicide [ __ ]
crazy Stu and Joe money was a pedo
lovely uh if that's written and taken
out of context I'm kidding that's
obviously
hor uh there are limits to how far we
can Edge them we need we need the
categories we need to understand where
people are going to fall so that we are
we are very open and honest about yeah
you can push people in a direction there
will be second and third order
consequences you need to really be
thoughtful about what that is and when
in doubt
I would
say looking at history to find a way of
something that has worked not perfectly
but reasonably well uh would be probably
the place to start with that I'm going
to pause there know that finished let me
say a couple of things at this juncture
I love you I really look up to you I
learn a hell of a lot from you I really
admire you and I have no [ __ ] idea
what you're talking about okay if you
like that clip check out the full
powerful episode here and I'll see you
there