Kind: captions
Language: en
my heart absolutely aches for all the
people out there that feel lost and
inadequate people try to look good on
Instagram They Don't Really worry about
who they actually are I want to compare
and contrast to two people okay uh one
being Andrew Tate where many people
considered the Pinnacle of modern
masculinity the other being Marcus
Aurelius known as the last of the five
Great Emperors of Rome who should people
be looking up to and most important why
I think it's hard to be a man in the
world these days where as we have
corrected you know mistakes of the past
some of the things that sort of would
have been
reassuring or purposeful or even just
Mooring like tie you to who you are and
why you're here for men has gone away
right less people go to church than ever
before less people work at the same job
their whole life than ever before you
know all these things that would explain
who you were how you should be why you
mattered those have fallen away
and so I don't I'm not surprised by the
fact that from that sort of emptiness or
vacuum people would be attracted to
someone who both tells them what they
want to hear and sort of sets down kind
of an aspirational model where yeah
you're good with women you're
financially successful you seemingly
emanate power and confidence I get why
all that's attractive but I find him to
be repulsive wow well I mean first off
he's a sex trafficker and uh what if he
was proven innocent because I I would
love to set that aside because if he is
that and God knows some of the things
I've seen make it seem like it probably
it's it's dark no matter what and it may
be just unbearably heinous but
I I want to address the part that made
people like go to him because I think
that that will break the spell if it
ends up being true I think he'll just
disappear yeah but prior to that there
was the sense of strong could fight very
articulate tons of money
um seem to be the kind of guy that
people wanted to be around so I'm using
him as a stand-in for hyper masculinity
or the the modern model yeah and I think
you make a good point let's say perhaps
he's innocent it still doesn't change
the fact that the business model from
which his wealth has been derived is
about uh the sort of a modern form of
prostitution or pimping right like this
is I don't think this is the the Stokes
don't have any problem with making money
right being financially successful
Seneca says uh what does it matter if
the philosopher is rich in so far is
that his money is not stained by Blood
right and so I think it's great to be
successful to make money I think how how
you made that money is more important
than how much you have or don't have
right so I find I find the Enterprise to
be uh repulsive let's let's I just want
to stipulate that but if we're sort of
contrasting some of the sort of hyper
masculinity manosphere red pill kind of
maleness with uh some of the ideals in
stoicism I think that's a fascinating
contrast because there was actually a
recent maybe it was the American
Psychological Institute or there were
some medical
uh institution that was sort of laying
out what they thought the primary
attributes of toxic masculinity were and
one of them is stoicism like they're
laying out stoicism as in non-emotional
as in unemotional invulnerable sort of
suppressive which I think is obviously a
fundamental misreading of stoicism but
but I do think the the contrast between
those two things is interesting there's
like maybe what people call would call
lowercase stoicism and uppercase dose
and I'm obviously interested in in the
sort of the actual philosophy of Doses
and the Market's a realist version of
stoicism it's interesting you you
pointed them out as one of the five
Great Emperors actually the the
historical term there is he's the last
of the five good Emperors which which I
think is an important distinction
because he is great I mean you don't
become the most powerful man in the
world without some form of greatness
there you don't stay the most powerful
man but he was just appointed so you
definitely you could his son for the
love of God was a tyrant psychopath but
what's interesting about Marcus is how
he gets there right but pointing out
that great and good are not the same
thing and then a lot of people aspire to
be great uh but don't really care if
they're good in the process and I think
to me what's truly impressive what true
greatness is is both it involves both
being Talent and masterful and powerful
and successful but also fundamentally
decent and generous and honest and fair
and uh kind of all these other
attributes that can sometimes get lost
in
a Cutthroat ambitious
real world scenario right but Marcus's
story is so interesting because he's
more than just appointed right so what's
so fascinating about the five good
Emperors is basically for five
consecutive Emperors there is no male
Heir I think we all agree a hereditary
monarchy is not a great system it
doesn't tend to create good leaders so
why do you have five in a row it's
because the emperor was not simply
naming his eldest son his successor so
what happens is Hadrian who is two
Emperors before Marcus
is without a son he's probably gay you
know sort of an eccentric interesting
guy he's a pretty good Emperor he's
flawed in a lot of ways but he's a good
Emperor right no one would say he's a
great a good man but he was a he was a
great emperor and he's starting to look
around who's going to succeed me and he
looks at this boy marks realist is is
pretty young then he doesn't come
they're not related anyway but he is
from a prestigious Roman family and
there's something about this kid that
strikes Hadrian he nicknames him uh
verismus or the truthful one so he has
some fundamental honesty or decency to
him that makes Hadrian think like this
kid has potential he's smart he's
philosophically inclined quite early
doesn't want to be Emperor right which
is I think also a positive sign in a
leader like the leader that wants the
power the most is the one you have to be
the most worried about so Hadrian
decides hey there's something in this
kid but he also knows that the worst
thing you could possibly do is make a
kid a king you know and so he has to set
in motion some training program that
would make this kid a great emperor and
so he realizes he needs like a stop Gap
he needs like a placeholder before
Marcus is ready and Marcus not having a
male relative who could do this
Hadrian settles on this guy named
antoninus who's the most powerful
politician in Rome at that time who's
sort of worked his way up through the
ranks honest decent good and Hadrian's
considering maybe he's the successor and
he the story is that he notices one day
uh antoninus helping his stepfather his
elderly stepfather up a flight of stairs
no one's watching and he just sees this
moment of kindness or goodness in a
person who is otherwise a very talented
ambitious powerful politician so what
Hadrian does is he names antoninus his
successor
in exchange antoninus has to name Marcus
Aurelius his successor and so Hadrian
probably thinks Marcus will reign for
that antoninus will reign for three or
four years or ten years right life
expectancy there is not super long and
antoninus ends up ruling for like two
decades and he and Marcus have this
incredible relationship where he seems
to actively be interested in teaching
Marcus and modeling good behavior for
Marcus and Marcus in turn doesn't see
this adopted stepfather as arrival in
any way as an impediment in any way but
has someone to learn from someone to
model himself on and so for 20 odd years
antoninus leads while preparing this kid
to to succeed him and that's what
ultimately ends up happening and I think
a testament to antoninus's uh tutoring
and to Marcus's learning and inherent
decency the first thing Marcus does when
he becomes Emperor is he names his
step-brother co-emperer
right so the first thing he does with
absolute power is give part of it away
which is you know unprecedented in the
annals of history and so all of this is
to say what makes Marcus great is not
just that he's a great leader he's a
great military campaigner that he's
smart that he's good at communicating
that he knows how to broker you know
compromises but that sort of
fundamentally there is a decency there a
goodness there a a sense of
community-mindedness in it and
meditations he talks about the common
good 40 or 50 times right like what what
what's in Marcus that makes Marcus I
think a worthy model for young men and
for young women is that you know he's
not corrupted by the power that he has
he doesn't feel the need to prove
anything to anyone he has this sense
this inner code that he's trying to live
by and he wants to be great but he he
doesn't necessarily want to do it
through the piling up of wealth or
honors or accomplishments but by you
know making a positive difference in the
world all right what I want to talk
about is that inner code so what I find
interesting about this whole setup is
all right so uh I don't know a lot about
Andrew Tate but it does seem like he had
quite a dysfunctional relationship with
his father Yes fatherlessness is tied to
a lot of bad outcomes part of the
question because and that's for boys and
girls part of the question becomes why
what's that Dynamic but what what I find
interesting in life if if it's all
predetermined and you either are just
born a good person and you're going to
be fine or you're born a sociopath and
nothing that happens to you is going to
make any difference
legitimately close my company quit
because the whole point what's the point
yeah yeah for me literally it's called
impact Theory because I really believe
that there are a set of ideas that you
can give to people and if they deploy
those ideas it will make their life
better and so all I am trying to do is
actually articulate these ideas now they
get extremely complicated you and I were
talking before we started rolling for me
this is really gone in three phases and
that's kind of how I want to walk
through this today so phase number one
for me was the inner code so I needed to
build a belief system and that was the
beginning of my show was just that I was
just trying to help people Cobble
together what I called mindset if you
get the right mindset which I now
probably refer to as frame of reference
so you build a frame of reference
intentionally most people do it
completely on accident yeah but I would
want them to take control of that
process so you're building a frame of
reference from beliefs and values what
is what do I choose to believe is and
then what ought to be yeah then once you
have that you go into phase two which is
deploying it in your immediate life so
I'm going to deploy it in my
relationships in my career and my
personal finances I'm sure a lot of the
things because honestly I came to
stoicism not by reading stoicism but by
going what works yeah sure and so you
end up and then you hear it for the
first time you're like whoa like this is
exactly the kind of thing that I've been
steering myself towards and then phase
three becomes what I'll shorthand to the
reality Distortion field portion of your
life you get to the point where okay
I've I've built the right lens through
which to view the world and myself I've
deployed it in my immediate region and
now I want to see how much I can really
push this out into the world now
originally I would have thought of it as
creating the world that you want but as
the modern world ratchets up and throws
more Temptations more ease at people I
find that a lot of what I think about is
knowing what to resist what not to do
what to turn away from
so walk me through what what is that
inner code that
somebody who's aiming at the the I'm
going to call the the ease of Tate right
get rich quick uh fast and flashy not
necessarily about long-term
relationships and then
comparing to somebody like Marcus
Aurelius that's really about self-denial
anchoring not giving into Power I
remember I I I understand that position
very well because I wasn't
wasn't that long ago that I was there I
remember I was 19 years old someone had
recommended that I read Marcus
aurelius's meditations I was sitting in
my college apartment it arrived in the
mail I went and I got it and I sat down
and I read it and here you have the
thoughts of the most powerful man in the
world sort of explaining like his code
how a person should be what a person
should do what greatness was what
goodness was what virtue was
and I remember being struck so much by
the this sense that like no one had ever
talked to me this way before my dad
hadn't talked to me about this way I
hadn't really heard that in church or in
school or on TV you know there there is
this sense I think that like kids will
just figure it out people just figure it
out or that you know it's obvious and
it's not obvious people need guidance
they need structure they need advice
like
it's it's absurd that you would just
expect them to figure this stuff out by
trial and error because you can end up
going down these blind hours it could
take you years to find out that hey this
trait you picked up this way of living
isn't actually the right one or isn't
working for you it's not as meaningful
as you think it was so what so struck me
about the Stokes was that it answered
this same question that I think people
are
feeling like the Andrew Tates or random
YouTubers or tick-tockers are are
answering which is like
how should I be like what is the good
life right
what do I need to do in the world to get
ahead or how do I prevent myself from
being taken advantage of or being weak
or or failing right like how do I deal
with this hole that I have inside me and
I think it's a shame that we don't think
of philosophy as a way to address those
existential questions because that's
fundamentally what philosophy was from
the very beginning today we think of
philosophers as like somebody who works
in the philosophy department at Harvard
or we think of some unpronounceable
German name but you know Socrates is
walking around trying to answer the
questions about knowledge and wisdom and
insight and goodness uh diogenes you
know famously walks around with his
Lantern and he's he says show me a good
man he's looking for for for that kind
of person the founding of stoicism Xeno
is this successful young Merchant he
inherits the family business suffers a
shipwreck he washes up on in on Shore in
Athens having lost everything and he
walks into this bookstore and the
Bookseller is reading the works of
Socrates right one of the dialogues of
Socrates
and he says he walks up to the
Bookseller and he goes where can I find
a man like that and the FL and the
Bookseller points to this this uh cynic
philosopher named crates and that sets
Zeno on this mission right he's lost
everything he doesn't know where to go
he doesn't know what to do and
philosophy
is that light it is that North Star and
so I really put a point on that for a
second because as I was researching for
this episode I took
a whole bunch of sort of Journal style
notes on the idea of philosophy yeah so
I think that we all have a god-shaped
hole in US yes and
it has been I I'm not even sure how to
categorize what's happened to religion
because in some ways we're like becoming
more religious but in other ways it
really does feel somewhat empty and it
feels like there's a huge fragmentation
and so there is no one galvanizing sense
of who you ought to be and what you
ought to become and religion is
political now as opposed to a guide To
Living in the world which is what it was
supposed to be you know uh
2000 years ago you think of the Ten
Commandments right it's like do this
don't do this right
um and and
philosophy and religion were intertwined
right aren't they one and the same it's
just one is backed up by a deity and one
is not I mean what I what I mean this
more literally like uh Paul is known as
Paul of Tarsus Saint Paul is was known
before he becomes Saint Paul's Paul of
Tarsus and Tarsus is the center of stoic
philosophy it leaves Athens and it goes
to Tarsus and he studies stoic
philosophy right and and uh Christianity
absorbs a bunch of the ideas from stoic
philosophy which I think because I lost
the threat a little bit but like you
said what is the code right what is the
code for living that philosophy teaches
us well so we're we're back with Zeno
he's been on the Shipwreck the reason
that I wanted to really drill that point
home is so I started this by saying my
heart bleeds for the people that feel
lost and inadequate yeah and why does my
heart believe from them because I've
been there I know intimately what that's
like
um for me I found taoism and then
business forced me into something
probably more like stoicism but you when
you begin to create a category of
thought in your mind about how things
ought to be how you ought to be and you
start steering towards that then you can
create meaning and purpose in your life
yes and so now all of a sudden and I
mean look this is a straight uh quote
from the stoics you can't control what
happens to you but you can control how
you react yes and so that's what's so
fascinating about that moment is you've
got this guy that had everything loses
it in a shipwreck and whether it's
apocryphal or not like he's I'd imagine
dripping wet as he walks into the
bookstore you know and is like how do I
reconceptualize of my life now yeah it's
the moment in Fight Club when his
apartment gets blown up and he loses
every and he's having to look at life
with new eyes for the first time and
Xeno would would say later he would joke
he says you know I lose everything he
says I made a great 4 Fortune when I
suffered a shipwreck because he lost
everything financially he lost
everything as far as his identity goes
his work his his sort of family's Legacy
and what he finds his philosophy he
finds this code of living and Zeno is
the first of the stoic philosophers to
articulate the four virtues which
stoicism is built around courage
self-discipline Justice and wisdom which
also any Christian would recognize as
the cardinal virtues so stoicism and
Christianity share the same
underlying operating system if you will
one says that God gave it to us and
maybe the Stokes would say it's from the
gods or they would say it's from you
know our ruling reason our rational
sense I I think it doesn't really matter
what matters is that those are four
traits for Bedrock values that you can
build a great and a good life around out
courage self-discipline Justice and
wisdom every situation good or bad in
life every moment big or small
one or all of those virtues is
appropriate is demanded right everything
The Stokes would say is an opportunity
to practice one of those virtues so you
know famously uh when Marcus really is
talking about how the obstacle is the
way he's not saying that hey this
shipwreck is awesome he's saying that
this shipwreck is an opportunity to
practice one or more of the stoic
virtues this betrayal by your business
partner is an opportunity to practice uh
one or more of these four stoic virtues
right this loss of a family member this
horrible warrior in the middle of right
also this incredible success you've just
become the emperor of Rome courage
self-discipline Justice wisdom all of
that and more is demanded of you and so
like the stoicism isn't a list of
Commandments do this don't do that but
it is these sort of four Bedrock values
which you're supposed to build your life
life and your decisions and your
individual actions around and towards
you can unlock ad-free videos downloads
and background play with YouTube premium
I am a psycho for this I use this all
the time I cannot recommend it highly
enough with YouTube premium there's
nothing getting in between you and your
favorite channels you won't have to wait
for ads you can keep your videos going
in the background and download them to
watch anytime anywhere plus you also get
premium access to the YouTube music app
where you can play all the music you
want ad-free offline and in the
background get everything you love about
YouTube with background play downloads
and no ads try YouTube premium today
click the link in the description if you
click the link I may get a commission
the thing that I find
um so I don't believe in God but I so
relate to the idea of that that sense of
there is a hole in me and I need
something to fill it and for me
I think all of this whether it's
religion whether it's philosophy what
it's trying to get at is evolution has
planted these drivers algorithms in your
mind and there's just no escaping them
and the reason there's no escaping them
is they are the things that you have to
do in order to survive long enough to
have kids that have kids yeah and so the
the Epitaph on my Tombstone
ought to read you're having a biological
experience and what I want people to
understand is death is a biological it's
a hundred percent yeah and whether uh
God gave us evolution in the body
whether this is all a simulation none of
it matters sure what what it boils down
to is the the way that you interface
with life the way we interface with each
other the most importantly the way we
interface with ourselves is
pre-programmed like you you are going to
feel some kind of way you are going to
be prone to love you were going to be
prone to jealousy you are going to be
prone to uh Envy Joy all of it like the
The Human Experience as varied as it is
is so narrow when you compare us to
other animals and and what they go
through and once people realize that and
you realize okay there there is no way
to escape certain pressures yeah and so
now whatever philosophy that you have
ought to align with the things that are
going to make you I would say fulfilled
yes so I'll round it to human
flourishing right so to me uh something
you've said and the note that I took
even before we started is you need a
North star there needs to be something
that you're aiming at and so you know I
hold up Andrew Tate and Marcus Aurelius
as two potential North Stars as a bundle
of ways of approaching the world of
deciding what's a value of deciding what
to believe but which one of those you
choose one is going to be more aligned
with the the algorithms that you already
have running in your mind and thusly are
going to lead you to a lot life of more
fulfillment it's probably worth me
defining what I mean by fulfillment so
to me fulfillment is the only
neurochemical state that is pleasant and
can survive something like grief because
Joy or happiness does not survive grief
you cannot be joyful and grieving at the
same time but I think
curious to see if you agree with that
yeah I think that you can be fulfilled
and grieving at the same time so I think
fulfillment has a recipe and that recipe
is you must work really hard like that
nature is going to ensure that you work
really hard and that that is pleasurable
and that you have a sense of disease if
you don't because otherwise you're going
to die in an evolutionary context so you
must work really hard
to gain a set of skills
that you enjoy for whatever reason that
allow you to serve not only yourself but
the group yeah and so that recipe to me
is everything the whether it's stoic
whether it's taoism whether it's
Christianity Islam whatever it's the the
one that's going to win is going to be
the one that most aligns you with the
things that make you feel grounded like
you have meaning and purpose you feel
secure and worthwhile all the things
that I lament for people that feel lost
and inadequate what's interesting how
Timeless this discussion we're having is
I mean Marcus would have recognized it
himself right
um in meditations Marx surrealist talks
quite a bit about the other Emperors who
come before him right this is an elite
club he's in some are more famous than
others but you know he talks a lot about
Alexander the Great right who was sort
of the historical model for manliness
and greatness and success and ambition
is the greatest conqueror that ever
lived you know one of the great military
Minds how far before Aurelius was he
Alexander the Great dies not long before
Zeno makes his way to Athens so it's a
long time and we're talking 500 years or
so it's interesting how we we sent we
tend to think like the ancient world is
so compressed Mark surilis quotes poets
in meditations that were further away
from his time than Shakespeare is from
ours whoa so this goes back this is a
long tradition and and the debates about
greatness uh and ambition and power it's
there you know the Xerxes the Persian
king who wanted to conquer the world
Alexander the Great who does conquer the
world you know Alexander the Great he is
this great brilliant conqueror and you
know he makes it to the end of the Earth
and his men finally Rebel like we want
to go home we've been doing this for you
know 20 years and he says what are you
gonna he's like are you gonna go home
and let it be said that you left
Alexander the Great alone to finish
conquering and they they were like yeah
and and there's some argument that his
men killed him
um but Marcus Aurelius tries to talk to
himself in meditation you can't compare
yourself against this guy he goes he's
like it's important that you remember
that Alexander the Great and his mule
driver both died and they were both
buried in the same earth right that
death is this great equalizer that you
don't get to take these accomplishments
with you and so to be insatiable in life
is really a kind of an emptiness kind of
a torture that that doesn't pay off the
way that you think it does right and and
so
in the ancient world they were
constantly looking at these figures and
there's this famous exchange I mentioned
diogenes earlier diogenes is this great
philosopher sort of a predecessor of the
Stokes and he meets Alexander the Great
Alexander the Great's a big fan he's a
he's a student of philosophy himself and
uh you know he comes across uh Alexander
Alexander comes across diogenes who's
you know like laying by the side of the
road just sunning himself and Alexander
the Great sort of walks over him and he
says um hi I am Alexander the Great you
know what can I do for you thinking that
you know he can bestow favors on this
man and impress him and and diogenes
looks at him and he says you can stop
blocking my son and the idea that the
contrast the reason the Angels would
tell this story was was to say that
actually diogenes is greater than
Alexander the Great because diogenes is
self-sufficient diogenes has reduced his
needs to zero diogenes doesn't need to
prove anything to anyone
um and he he had sort of taken a
different path in life and I think
there's probably a middle ground between
these two that we want to embody but
um you know Stephen pressfield right
yeah Stephen pressfield uh writes a
great novel about Alexander the Great
called uh uh the virtues of War I think
and there's a scene a fictional scene
between Alexander and diogenes and he
sort of renders another one of their
meetings and I think it illustrates his
tension you know
Alexander the Great goes to diogenes and
says I have conquered the world what
have you ever done and diogeny says I
have conquered the need to conquer the
worlds right and so I think it's it's
great to to be driven to try to do
things but the Stokes would say
are those things driving you or are you
driving them right are what are you a
slave to right who's actually in control
of your life and so I think oftentimes
the people that we hold up as heroes or
that we admire if you actually get up
close with them and you see
that they're not as free as you think
they are they're not as powerful as you
think they are they're a slave to
something or someone even if it's just
like their over scheduled calendar and
so you know what's beautiful about
meditations is you have this immensely
powerful man trying to get to the root
of what it actually means to be powerful
and I think he settles on the idea of
being in command of yourself is actually
a rarer thing than being in command of
an army or an Empire or a you know a a
great legacy or you know whatever
whatever one is after in life
okay so this idea of being a slave to
the things that you're into that's one
of the things that I worry about a lot
with the modern world so you have uh
porn beginning to skew people the idea
that you could see more uh attractive
naked women in a single session than
most men would have seen in their entire
lives sure uh is pretty crazy only fans
which is a a whole thing I don't even
know how to conceptualize with that
that's when I had my head down and I was
just working for her you know whatever
two decades I look up and only fans is
the thing that I don't necessarily I'm
fully grappled with what that means
drugs uh just food like there are so
many things I mean you can get on a
plane for 200 and travel basically
anywhere you want right at any time like
the it's wonderful how accessible
and uh real real like technology and
capitalism has made things but it also
makes it hard
to be self-contained to be
self-sufficient to be in control of your
life and not controlled by the endless
urges and temptations and distractions
and Pleasures that are out there are the
pleasures bad well the Stokes would say
that pleasure isn't bad per se but they
would ask you know how do you feel the
morning after right they would ask uh
what what regrets come from it right
what negative consequences come from it
masonous Rufus is one of the great
Stokes he's the teacher of Epictetus he
says you know when you work hard on
something it's painful but the pain
passes quickly and The Virtue or the
accomplishment remains but he says when
you do something for pleasure the
pleasure passes quickly but the shame
remains and so when I think about the
things that people do whether it's drugs
or drink thinking or
sexual stuff or or just any of the
pleasures that we chase you know it's
fun in the moment it's rewarding in the
moment but the costs come later and and
you can't separate those costs you can't
you can't go I had an awesome time
drinking last night without integrating
the morning hangover into that cost
benefit analysis but that's kind of the
problem that we do right it's like
you're eating whatever you want you're
not exercising because it's hard well
you don't see the consequences of that
until you look in the mirror six months
from now right and vice versa when you
decide to work out and to eat clean and
to push yourself
and to be disciplined you know you don't
see the benefits of that until later and
and our inability to deal with that I
think is
big part of why we're not the people we
want to be or the people that we can be
I have a thesis yeah
many people need to be chased by a lion
and you know obviously as a metaphor in
order to have their life
focused
take on meaning because then it you you
have a thing to deal with you have a
thing that provides that structure yeah
and so when I look at the Modern
landscape the thing that I really worry
about is that there is no like you can
in a modern context you can live in your
parents basement until you're 35 and
there's really no major consequence for
that right and
what do you think about that so like
what do you make of something like only
fans where when you know I've been
married for 21 years I will often give
relationship advice or have relationship
guests on the show and one of the
comments you will see in the thread is
one person will be like oh I think you
should listen to Tom's advice he's been
married for 21 years then somebody else
would be like yeah he got married 21
years ago there was no social media uh
there was no swiping right like one
you'll see a lot is women women would
settle back then so I was like thanks
guys yeah yeah you know and
like what do you think about that what
what is the thing that has broken that
has left men spending inordinate amounts
of money yeah on a woman they're never
going to meet right who almost certainly
is uh they're not actually talking to
them you're talking to like probably a
guy that's running their account all
while and here's where my brain broke
all while you could go get free porn
yeah so this isn't just about
masturbating like that there's free
stuff that you could do you don't have
to pay for what the like what's
happening yeah I mean I don't think one
thing broke I think a lot of things
broke right and so what are those things
well I mean first off yeah the the an
unlimited amount of high definition
pornography it's an incredible
temptation to any lonely person right I
get porn far more than I get only fans I
mean at a certain point watching
pornography is lonely and unrewarding
because human beings desire and need
Connection in relationships but if you
have been
Left Behind like we talk about people
who've been left behind like workers
right you're a factory worker and now uh
that that job can be done cheaper in
China or it requires way more education
than you have you're left behind but I
think a lot of people are left behind
when all of a sudden the dating Market
is so much more efficient right where
um the competition is so much more uh
severe right where people don't have to
settle like you're saying because they
have access to unlimited fish in the sea
and so this means if you don't have your
life together if you're you know not
taking care of yourself if you don't
have the emotional wherewithal and
skills like I it's it's always been hard
to be a person and to find your people
right it I by that I mean friends and I
mean potential spouse or life partner
it's always been hard but then you know
what we ask of people to day is so much
greater we demand emotional awareness
like I I've young kids the emotional
awareness and the uh the load that I'm
supposed to carry and the level of
involvement I'm supposed to have in
their lives is
enormously bigger than my father had and
incomprehensibly bigger one to two
generations back right and then you
think about the technological prowess
that a person has to have you think
about
um how expensive things like it's just
hard to be a person and so people are
left behind and so if
suddenly
you can fool yourself into thinking that
this beautiful adult actress or sex
worker is into you
that illusion is going to be more
comfortable than facing the hard reality
have you ever watched the the MTV show
Catfish
no you know what catfishing is right
it's it's actually a really revealing
show
um about intentionally catfishing people
no no the show is is people who think
they're being catfished and then they
come and help them investigate to see
whether they are or not and I think it's
actually a really revealing look into
what it it's like to be one of these
kinds of people in the world because
these kind of in cells what are we
talking about incel's a strong word but
somebody who is struggling like
struggling to find real people in real
life right and invariably
the person has fallen for someone that
is not just out of their league but
but obviously out of their league to
everyone but them right it's like and so
cognitive dissonance is a powerful force
and so when this male or female model
randomly slides into your DMs on social
media and falls for you an unemployed
person working in your parents you know
living in your parents basement and
they're really successful but they don't
have a phone that works so that's why
you can't FaceTime like they're not
seeing what's obviously there because to
see what is there would mean despair
right to see that they have been wasting
their life or that the world is unfair
or unjust or you know much you know more
difficult than they would like it to be
that's a hard that's a hard truth to
face and I think it's easier to turn to
Illusions like falling in love with some
you know random person who's tricking
you and ultimately going to take money
from you
and and you know a lot of what's
happening on adult websites or or only
fans is just
um
a slightly more ruthless version of that
same thing they're they're creating a
parasocial relationship with someone
um where you feel like it's a two-way
street and it's fundamentally a one-way
Street and uh
you would rather live in those delusions
than
go to the gym
go back to school
go to therapy you know deal with
the
unfair or awful hand that life dealt you
but it even if it is unfair even if it
is is unjust it doesn't change the fact
that that's what you were dealt and you
got to figure out what you're gonna do
with that
what would the stoics say to an incel
oh no I don't know I mean it's hard it's
hard to
it's hard to think about
what that is because I think it's it's
such a complicated it's psychological
and it's economic and it's you know the
sort of radicalization of the internet
but I I do think the stoics would say
like look uh
all the things that you don't like about
the world all the things you don't like
about yourself uh you know being mad at
other people about them you know
resenting them uh lamenting them it's
not going to make it any better for you
and so how do you focus on what you
control here on what you can do here and
I I do think you know at the core of
stoicism although it has this reputation
for being sort of resigned the core of
stoicism is this strong sense of agency
that you don't control a lot of what's
happened before or in the future but you
control who you are right now what you
do in this moment and the decision to to
be a responsible adult Joan Didion
famously said you know the decision to
take responsibility for yourself in your
own life
is the source from which all
self-respect Springs facts and facts
totally and and the the decision to go
this isn't my fault but it's my problem
this sucks but I don't want to live a
sucky shitty life so I'm going to do
something about it I'm not going to
blame other people for the fact that I
am undesired that I am unhappy that I am
unsuccessful I'm going to do something
about that that is the first choice that
is the number one thing that is up to
you let's say you're Quasimodo yeah I
don't know the Hunchback I actually
don't know the story so I don't know
what the punch line in the movie is but
uh because the the black pill Community
I've I've not engaged with much I I know
very little about it but when I think
about these things
um if I'm Quasimodo and like it really
is out of the cards for me like I I am
broken in a way that nobody is ever
going to find attractive
um
I feel like look that's really brutal
and I would never want that to be true
but at some point you either say okay
that part of my life is dead and I'm
gonna have to go find something
somewhere else
um
or it's going to drive you mad like I
couldn't let that become the core of my
identity there's no doubt that that
would be a part of it you can't get away
from that you don't want to pretend that
it isn't what it is but at the same time
like I when I think about again this all
comes back to frame of reference for me
what do you believe is true about the
world and how ought the world be yeah
and I would say though okay what is in
that moment I'm not going to find a
traditional relationship where physical
attraction is the the first um thing
that's going to lead me down that path
but the world ought to be such that
people fill that need for love and being
loved with something with some kind of
contribution like you need to go do
something dude go work at an animal
shelter it's not romance but it it is
being loved and it is companionship like
I that's where my mind goes like you
have to find an outlet for that
otherwise you end up in despair man yeah
and you know when I think about people
getting to the point where they believe
they can never be happy again and
suicide is the only option it's like
whoa whoa whoa like I'm not here to say
that there aren't major problems but I
am here to say knowing what I know about
how the mind works you still can point
your mind to something that will give
you that sense of fulfillment that that
recipe that I was talking about you you
can get to that point but it does
require you to force that North Star
upon yourself I mean first off I would
say you're not Quasimodo like you're
almost certainly not right like uh so
much of what I think
people are down about themselves when
you when you look at people who are in
true despair they've written themselves
up there's there's
ironically a kind of ego in it right
it's this sense like imposter syndrome
right imposter syndrome at the root of
it is incorrect in the sense that it
presumes anyone is thinking about you at
all right nobody is thinking about you
um but there is this sense I think when
you are down when things are not working
when you're unhappy that no one has ever
felt the way that you've ever felt no
one has ever had it as hard as you have
it and that your situation is unique and
it's not there's a great uh James
Baldwin quote he says you know you think
you're suffering in your pain is so
special and unique and then you read
right and then you realize you you are
opened up to a world in which people
have had it so much worse than you right
um have been dealt incredible hands of
adversity and suffering and
disfigurement and loss and pain and
those people got out of bed every
morning and tried and worked on
themselves and even the people that you
are jealous of that you think have it so
good are often dealing with secret pain
and baggage and loss and so the decision
to go hey I'm going to stop making this
so much about me I'm going to stop
making this so much on what has happened
or what I am worried is going to
continue happening and I'm just going to
focus on what I can do here and I love
your idea you go work in an animal
shelter you you get a job you uh you
meet friends like you you stop trying to
get get this one thing so bad and you
just focus on things that are much more
attainable and easy and you
you find in life that momentum is an
incredible thing and that oftentimes we
despair of some destination some far-off
change or transformation because we
don't see how we're going to get there
when really we should be focused on like
what the most immediate attainable
realistic next thing is you know if
you're 200 pounds overweight imagining
yourself you know ripped and yoked is
probably
inconceivable but like you could lose
five pounds you could lose 10 pounds you
could get up and go for a walk
um you know you you you haven't uh been
touched by a member of the opposite sex
and however long well you can still say
hi to someone in line you know what I
mean like that you you have to start so
much smaller than you think and and the
stoics talk about this they talk about
how like no one can stop you from doing
that they can stop you from some far off
outcome but they can't stop you from
doing that immediate next right thing
and it accumulates Xeno who we can
imagine Zeno he loses everything right
it's seems utterly hopeless that the
idea that he would become this world's
changing world-famous philosopher in his
own life he sought after by Kings and
you know
rebuilds his life and his fortune and
his relationships that was inconceivable
to him at that moment when he's
penniless and broke but he says later he
says well-being is realized by small
steps but it is no small thing and if if
we can understand these small steps
these little things that everyone talks
about that that are very well
established you know just basic best
practices of Life they add up in a big
way and they create something that is
big and transformative what are the
small steps of well-being I just mean
you know like some of them are cliches
but it's like you know wake up early go
to bed early eat well you know like I
try to do something hard every day like
physically hard every day
um why
because I like the challenge of it and
more importantly I like being a person
who
has is has a track record of doing hard
things that I don't want to do the
Stokes talk about they say you know we
treat the body rigorously so it's not
disobedient to the mind I want to
cultivate the practice of I'm a person
who pushes through hard stuff I'm a
person who decides what I'm going to do
and do it right and I wasn't always that
way no one is actually born that way
it's a it's a culmination of doing it of
building the Habit building the practice
which becomes a ritual which becomes an
identity which becomes a fact right like
um those basic practices like you could
get it off any random Instagram account
any diet book you know any self-improved
this is not rocket science but it is
hard work and it's the work like of a
lifetime you know waking up early three
days in a row that's not going to
magically make you who you are who you
want to be but the decision to wake up
early
focus on what you eat you know to
challenge yourself to put yourself out
there to do the thing you're afraid to
do these are you know habits that
compound and they
they you know they they shape you as you
are shaping them
yeah this is why I want people to
understand they're having a biological
experience so I want to remove all the
sort of hoity-toity-ness of why one
ought to do that the reality is there's
in your brain that is messing with
you and you are going to feel a profound
sense of disease if you don't do hard
things yes like the reason you should do
hard things is not because it makes you
a better person it is because there is a
a subroutine running in your brain that
is saying you're a piece of because
you don't do hard things now I wish that
that thing wasn't there your life would
be much easier if you weren't being
chased by a lion that you could still be
all right but the fact is that you it
will just niggle at you because that is
what evolution has had to program into
us to make sure that back when you were
going to get potentially eaten by a
saber-toothed tiger that you still went
out and braved it time and time again to
move forward to make a better life
disease is a great word that you're
using there on Wii would be another one
you know there is this sense it's not
just that you you dislike yourself
because you're not doing hard things but
you also have an anxiety or an
insecurity because you know things could
get worse you know things could happen
to you at any moment and because you
haven't tested yourself because you're
not actually sure if you're strong
you're worried right you're worried
about what tomorrow could bring Seneca
famously would practice poverty he was
very wealthy born to a wealthy family we
was successful was powerful and you
would try to spend like one day a month
he would like wear his worst clothes you
would he would he would you know walk
the streets he would you know survive on
bread and water and his point he said
the purpose of this practice was to be
able to look at like abject poverty and
go this is what you feared right like he
he could go through life taking risks
because he wasn't concerned about his
ability to handle a reversal of Fortune
right and so when you do hard things
whether it's running or uh you know
getting up on stage or you know lifting
heavy rocks like whatever it is what
you're cultivating is the the uh kind of
resilience and a kind of confidence like
I have a cold plunge right
um and there's supposedly a bunch of
health benefits to having this thing
right what temperature do you set Yours
at 39. oh that's cold it is cold it is
cold it's on bars down to like 50 52 and
that hurts it's awful at 52 it
hurts 39 is like a whole nother level of
suffering it is an unpleasant experience
right but there's also makes me feel
like a wuss over here there's all sorts
of research that you know it helps your
circulation and it helps your immune
system and it helps your whatever right
and you will feel different and and I
trust you know that the research is
legitimate but I actually don't give a
right like yeah it could all be
disproven tomorrow and I would still do
it fast because the the the benefit is
the sliding in and the unpleasantness
for the first minute or two minutes when
you're like this was a terrible mistake
this is deeply unpleasant this is not
natural I shouldn't be doing this and I
go no I decide I decided before I got in
how that I was gonna do it and how long
I was going to do it for and that's what
I'm cultivating what do you do does your
mind scramble when you hit the cold
water it I feel like a flurry and then
one of the exercises that I'm practicing
is
I want if I'm gonna do it for three
minutes it's not three minutes of
gritting my teeth and just enduring
something unpleasant but I also want
three minutes of presence so like Define
that for me like I have my you know it's
got a leading arm I am are you I'm hyper
aware that I'm sitting in the cold or
are you trying to be like cold is just
the thing I don't need to sort of be
captured by it well one of the core
things I'm trying to do in that moment
is not look at my phone which is telling
me how long I've been in it right right
like I want to sit and just be for as
long as I can
trying not to distract myself trying not
to count and to just actually be so I
try to I try to combine the cold or the
plunge experience with a couple minutes
of sort of present mindfulness okay so I
want to know more about what present
mindfulness is for you so I'll I'll give
you a description of what I'm doing in
the cold tell me if this is anything
like what you do so I hit the water and
my brain it it is screaming danger it's
actually telling me you're being injured
get out right now and so there's a
almost a sense of electric confusion
where I can't even tell what part of my
body hurts anymore it's it's just weird
like I couldn't it's almost like I'm
blinded for a second because it's so
confusing and it's so cold and it's just
like I just want to get out and so my
thing is how rapidly can I get to the
point where I feel at ease yes so I'm
not tense I'm completely relaxed I'm not
trying to get out of the water in fact
this is what's that guy's name game
something's Paradox who's Paradise
stockto Paradox stock doe Stockdale
Stockdale yeah stockdale's Paradox he
said the people uh Vietnam uh
concentration camp no what do they call
them War can't prison camp uh prisoner
of war prisoner of war so he's a
prisoner of war in Vietnam and somebody
asked him like who struggles the most in
a prisoner of war camp and he said oh
that's easy the optimistic people right
because they think I'm gonna be home by
Christmas I'm going to be out in a month
and then they're not and when he was
drifting down in his parachute he's like
okay I'm gonna be here for years like at
least seven years this is gonna suck I'm
almost certainly going to be tortured
this is going to be very painful and in
that like okay I just completely accept
what's happening and you sort of relax
into it like admittedly cold water is
not a pow camp but it's that same thing
of like this is where I am and I'm going
to force myself to be completely calm in
the face of my lizard brain
screaming at me to get out yes it's it's
a minor attainable way of practicing or
flexing
the muscle that people have had to flex
in real adversity and real difficulty
right and so the sense for instance you
know when you get in the cold that it's
going to be unpleasant and you're going
to want it to be over quickly but your
mind is going to tell you that time is
going faster than it is right so if if
I'm sitting there and then I glance over
and I'm expecting like seven seconds
yeah two and a half minutes through and
it's actually been 23 seconds you know
I'm going to be disappointed I'm going
to be crushed it's gonna be harder so
it's it's just the ability to to sort of
you get in and like you said your brain
scrambles and then you want to re-assert
control reinsert sort of presence and
then for me the next step is not letting
my mind wander or drift into something
like work or a grudge I'm nursing or an
anxiety I feel about some other thing or
the sense that uh I need to finish this
and then get in the shower and then I
need get home to beat traffic to do X Y
or Z right and
to just be this is all I have to do for
the next few minutes it's going to be
hard it's going to be unpleasant but I'm
not going to die I've done it before I
know I'm going to come out of the other
side refreshed so I'm going to just do
what I have to do and and I didn't put
your locus of attention while you're
doing that or is it on like for me I do
it on the breath yeah and am I relaxed
it can be it can be breath and sometimes
like I'll cheat and I'll count but not
to record time or just like the the
counting of the in and outs of the
breath right
um and the reason I I like this again
the health benefits ancillary secondary
it's his bonus but the metaphor of this
is also the process of starting page one
of a book that I'm writing or learning a
new skill or moving to a new place or
anything that you have to do in life the
practice of it's gonna be hard uh it's
gonna be unpleasant
I'm gonna doubt myself I'm gonna have
Dark Knights of the soul but I'm a
person who pushes myself to do hard
things I don't give up I don't cut
Corners I don't make excuses for myself
I push through and I'm proud of who I am
on the other side of it that's the meta
skill that's the metaphor that you're
trying to build in your life and in your
mind because it's the most transferable
and beneficial thing there is
so I like the in fact I looked this up
um the definition of stoic the actual
word uh uh did I put it down it's the
the definition of stoic itself is is the
thing you were saying earlier that
people weren't going to like I'm
convinced I have it here did you look it
up there it is
yeah so sorry read that again a person
who can endure pain or hardship without
showing their feelings or complaining
yeah so I love that I like the idea of
being in control of my emotions I don't
want to and people that have only know
me online they don't know whether what
I'm about to say is true or not but it
is true I don't stuff my emotions down I
process them I think it's very important
to process pain and
um insecurity hurt all of it grief grief
for sure you have to process it
um when my dog died as silly as that is
I was ruined for days and
but at the same time I want my emotions
to have their place yes and it is very
important to me that I have a healthy
distrust of my emotions I don't just
assume when I get in cold water that I
need to LEAP back out I don't assume
when I'm starting something new and I
feel like an idiot that I need to stop
and give up
I don't assume when I started this
YouTube channel and we had to go around
to the seven people in the company say
hey could you please subscribe because
we only have four there's seven of us
and we only have four subscribers so the
awkwardness of being bad or not visibly
successful at a thing is a very
underrated skill like I people want to
be a famous YouTuber or be a
best-selling author like I'll hear
people they want to like hire me to
consultants and book project and I and I
go so show me some stuff that you have
published and they're like well I've
never put they've never put a single
thing out right and so they want that
the outcome but they they're totally
paralyzed and intimidated by the process
of being a nobody at that thing for a
long period of time which is what it
takes right and that that ability to be
like I'm gonna start this channel even
though some people think it's weird even
though some people I went to high school
with are going to be talking about it
amongst each other and making fun of me
um and to think not only that not only
to do it because you think it will be
successful in the future and you're just
you're just willing to put up with it
that is outcome dependent I like it that
you're doing it because you are
interested in doing it you want to get
good at it and you think it's important
right and and that's that's a a very
important skill because you can't get
you can't get good at anything if you're
not willing to First be bad at that
thing right and people aren't willing to
be bad at that thing and so they would
rather be on their couch a lonely incel
than to go strike out
trying to meet people right they would
rather
continue to be the thing that's making
them miserable than to experience some
new form of discomfort or misery that is
trying that is failing that is getting
rejected and you have to be willing to
do that you have to have the courage and
the discipline both of those things in
concert with each other to be able to
get better what say you though to people
that
don't want men to be stoic like that's
you know we started with that that
that's really become part of the
definition of toxic masculinity whereas
I would say man or woman if you are the
slave to your emotions yeah that's just
as bad as being a slave to social media
or pornography or whatever it's it's
just the idea that the stoic is
emotionless is to Totally Miss what the
philosophy is and I think there's a big
difference between being emotionless and
being less emotional right would you say
is is it less emotional because I will
say it's about being in control of your
emotions meaning if you have uh if you
spark Rage which let me just tell you
running a company there are times where
someone will do something and anger
Wells up inside of me sure now just
because I'm feeling angry doesn't mean
I'm going to act angry and I don't think
people have enough distrust of their
emotions like literal distrust that I
shouldn't be angry right now I shouldn't
be hurt I shouldn't be upset I shouldn't
be wanting to cry if I really want to
get under somebody's skin so yeah I
think that you should be like yeah maybe
this isn't a time to be weeping if we
can make the distinction between
stuffing the emotion down and then
processing it I think we're in a great
place right I think people if you think
stoicism is you don't feel it you
pretend it doesn't exist you think it's
weak to have it
um then yeah I would I would agree
that's wrong but if stoicism is the
processing of the emotions the
questioning of the emotions the talking
through the emotions the having the
emotions for a brief period of time and
then going I'm done with that and I'm
moving on then I'm all for it right like
there we don't have a lot of stories
about Marcus Aurelius right like not a
lot of stories about who he was as a
person but we have three that involve
him crying three so
we've got to imagine that this is not an
utterly emotionless person
um there's a moment early in his life
where he loses uh his favorite teacher
his teacher dies and one of his stoic
teachers goes to him and says you gotta
stop crying like this isn't what men do
and antoninus his stepfather says let
the boy be human he says philosophy and
Empire don't take away personal feelings
right so he's letting the kid have this
emotion we know of Marcus crying uh
while he
um Mourns the victims of the antonine
plague millions of people die in this
heinous tragedy and then the other one
in between these two which I think is
also really revealing she supposedly
cries when he learns he is going to
become emperor
and sad tears he's he's overwhelmed by
the enormity of the responsibility
that's about to be thrust upon him and
he doesn't know if he can do it he was
said to be crying at the thought of all
the bad kings that had gone before him
which I think is important like if
you're like I obviously have this I'm
the best I excel at everything to me
that's a person who is almost certainly
going to fail because they're not taking
it seriously they're not intimidated by
what should be an intimidating thing
responsibility is difficult being
responsible for people is a scary thing
but you know so he he breaks down he
cries about it and then that night he
has this dream he has this dream he says
later that his shoulders were made of
ivory
to me what that means is and what he
said it meant is that he was stronger
than he thought he was he was stronger
than he knew so he has this moment and
then he works through it and then he
wipes away the tears and he goes to work
do you know what I mean so to me that's
the essence of what the philosophy is
you know he didn't cry and run away
he didn't cry and try to wiggle out of
the job right he didn't suppress the the
tears and then go get mad at someone or
you know indulge in Pleasures or
distractions like he was overwhelmed he
understood he was overwhelmed he dealt
with it and then he got back to it and
so this idea that the stoic you know
would never cry I think that's an
important one that we talk about because
like
it's funny like we we say like men
shouldn't be emotional but we are very
indulgent of men's tempers right like if
you get so angry you punch a wall you
have been overly you've been utterly
overwhelmed by your emotions right
um we don't tend to categorize that as
weak or as the same weakness as crying
because your dog died and I would argue
I just put my dog down on my 16 year old
dog and I wept like a baby like uh the
not just because of the grief but the
emotion that the the responsibility of
having to make this decision for this
helpless thing that was now lying there
and was not going to be alive anymore it
was a emotionally overwhelming
experience I didn't run from that
experience you know I did what I what I
had to do and there was regrets and you
know
um
uh mistakes you know caught up in it
like there was a lot of emotions right
so I felt those emotions
um and then I moved on
I don't need to I don't need to have
fewer of those experiences in my life
but I've never lost my temper and then
been proud afterwards do you know what I
mean so it's it's funny that we tend to
criticize it's very gendered which
emotions we we sort of criticize as
emotional and then other emotions
jealousy rage you know lust Etc
we don't lump in the same negative
category but if I had to choose I'd much
rather someone you know feel sad than
someone be an because they're
not in control of their temper
this this is a very complex topic so
um I one I agree with you wholeheartedly
that I am just completely unafraid to
cry if that is what the moment deserves
now I'm not a big crier so it's very
rare unless it's a movie I will be
honest like movies can really get me uh
but it's very rare in my real life that
I cry but when something is traumatic
like that then of course and and when I
say I don't even have a mild compunction
about crying like I'm not weird about
that does not bother me in the slightest
but at the same time I get why this has
become gendered and I don't want this to
get lost and this is where someone like
Andrew Tate becomes complex again I I
want to take him as an abstraction prior
to the the trafficking stuff but when he
first came on my radar I was like here
you have a guy ten percent of what he's
saying is bang on and nobody is talking
about the need to be tough the need to
strengthen yourself to be ambitious is
okay to be aggressive is okay and ninety
percent of what he said I'm like he's
just going out of his way to say it in
the worst conceivable way humanly
possible and it could just be that he's
dark tetrad all day and he really is
just a sociopath but even if he's not
even if he's just playing a character
um it's still dumb and I don't want
people to get lost in that but I also
don't like I was really pushing back on
what I'll call the hyper feminization of
men and I think that that's also
problematic and so when I look at okay
well how did we end up here with these
gendered Notions I think there's an
again you're having a biological
experience so there's an evolutionary
reason why like I don't know if this is
the same in your house but if somebody
like the number of times that our alarm
has gone off in the middle of the night
my wife has actually Fallen back asleep
as I'm creeping around the house to see
if somebody's really broken in or if
it's a false alarm and I like lock the
door behind me and I'm like you stay in
here I'm gonna go do my thing sure and
that to me like when you talk about how
the world ought to be that falls in my
list of ought to be like I think guys
should be tough I think that that a
hundred percent is their responsibility
and part of that is meaning and purpose
part of that is there there is I need a
North star I need to know I mean let's
go back to the four virtues courage
self-discipline Justice wisdom right so
I think regardless of sex all four are
bang on but
when it comes to physical danger or even
just discomfort in my life if if my wife
and I
um if there was going to be hardship
around food for one of us for whatever
reason one of you had to suffer and not
the other 100 out of 100 times I would
want to be the one that suffers and not
my wife and it would really bother me if
she stepped into the role to suffer on
my behalf
yeah you know I so I have a six-year-old
he's a boy and
I I feel like a lot of the traditional
masculine stuff
it's just there it's in the air right in
the sense that I work hard
um he sees me working out he sees that
I'm ambitious
um you know she trains in in Combat
Sports he does Brazilian Jiu Jitsu
um the sort of St you know stereotypes
of what a man should or shouldn't be but
we were going through he just switched
schools right and
um I said you know hey how are you
feeling like are are you sad about not
getting to see your old friends and your
teacher anymore and he was like I'm fine
you know like I'm fine uh and and like
he may have been fine but I wanted to I
wanted to make sure he knew it was okay
to not be fine right do you know what I
mean like it's not like I'm trying to
make him sad about something but I I was
concerned that his impulse maybe from me
or from something else or some random
stereotype or you know thing he saw on
TV or YouTube video that he
had internalized somewhere that it
wasn't okay for him to be sad or to miss
these people or to not like what
happened right so I want I felt like I
mean I watched it have the the impulse
that it was he was fine like he wasn't
it shouldn't have the emotion that was
there but it there needed to be the
extra conversation about it's okay like
if you feel sad it's okay and sometimes
you know you watch this too like like
it'll fall and they'll hurt themselves
and there's already at a very early age
some sense that like uh Boys Don't Cry
or cover it up or don't tell anyone and
I don't think that's a particularly
healthy thing either so I I just like
the I understand I just like the idea
that you're trying to create a
well-rounded person that has the full
tool kit The Full Experience the full
Human Experience
um and and you know it is funny like one
of the early stoics
talked about how
yes of course there's some things that
men and women are different at but he
said you know like you don't care he
says you don't care what sex your
hunting dog is or the gender of your
horse you just care if it can catch the
rabbit or run fast in the race and I
think overall when I think of stoicism
as a philosophy I do think about it as
something that's not masculine or
feminine but that it's something human
and I think there are
you know there are men who need the
courage to be
more vulnerable right about their
emotions right as opposed to cultivating
more martial courage on the battlefield
maybe they already have that and they
what they're struggling with is the pain
they feel or the grief they feel or the
inadequacy they feel and they're they're
afraid to tell someone about it just as
conversely there might be a woman who is
um needs the self-discipline or the
self-command to you know
deal with uh an over abundance of
emotions right and what we're trying to
get to is is a is is is
the sort of moderate or the apotheo the
moderation or the the middle ground the
golden mean of The Best of Both Worlds
to me that's what stoicism is about
very interesting so let me ask you
um I was playing soccer one day when I
was a kid and the ball hit my thumb just
right and broke it yeah cracked it right
down the middle
and
how
should my father have responded my dad
was the coach of the team yeah I'll tell
you in a minute what he actually did but
what in that moment I come crying to the
sidelines I got hit yeah my thumb hurts
well I I remember I fell off a
skateboard when I was in fourth grade
and I hit my wrist I landed on my left
wrist really hard and I
probably cried I know I was in a lot of
pain and I told my parents that it
really hurt and what my parents did in
that moment was chastise me for going on
a skateboard and then sort of not
believe me that it hurt as much as it
did and they you know they like to save
going to a doctor they asked their
doctor friend if it looked broken and he
said no and you know a week later I'm
like guys look this really hurts like I
need to go and of course it was broken
right and and one of the things I took
from that was not hey you should be
tough you know hey what I took from that
is like my parents don't believe me
right my parents uh say they care a lot
about me and they want nothing bad to
happen to me and then here I was in
physical pain and they were thinking one
of saving money or two of um you know
doubts right so I don't know what your
dad should have done and exactly in that
situation but I think it's really easy
as a parent as a person to get to to not
just focus on the individual instance in
front of you which is like this kid says
their thumb hurts let's just figure it
out and to think well if I make too big
a deal out of it they're going to turn
into a x y or Z right like there's a lot
of extrapolation that I think is harmful
for parents one of the things I think
about with my kids is I try to think
about most things as individual
instances right like my toddler is
throwing a temper tantrum
they're probably throwing a temper
tantrum not because they suck not
because they're bad not because I'm bad
as a parent but because like we forgot
to eat earlier or they're coming down
with something right
um and I'm just gonna deal with this
instance in front of me instead of going
well if I reward this bad behavior then
they're going to turn into a kid who
does bad things and thinks they can get
away right the extrapolation I think is
so often the enemy of what is usually a
pretty Common Sense low stakes situation
so I'm guessing uh because I think it's
been the historical Norm that your your
dad probably uh did not take it very
seriously
yeah so it was walk it off yeah like go
back in keep playing and the problem is
that in that instance what I walked away
from it with was I told you so and I
told you it hurt and I told you that you
should take me out of the game but as I
got older and got into business and
realized oh I give up too early as soon
as something hurts as soon as something
is difficult my temptation is to turn
and run and so my journey of success has
been one of getting tough and so when I
look back I wish what my dad had done
was take a more holistic approach to me
as a kid and help me create a frame of
reference around pain and suffering so
that when my thumb is broken I know hey
this isn't normal yeah you need to take
me out but because I whined and cried
about everything they couldn't know like
uh because I used to whine and cry just
the same when the ball would hit my cold
leg which I grew up in in Tacoma where
it's like in the winter it's actually
cold and so when that ball hits your leg
and it leaves the imprint of the soccer
ball like that really does Sting
but not remove me from the game sting
and so what I didn't understand as a kid
and feel like you know when we think
about stoicism when we think about how
ought 1B how what should you be aiming
at it's like you need to understand that
things are going to get hard you are
going to suffer if you want to do
something great you're going to have to
push through this and by all means by
the way if you don't want to if at any
time you don't want to play don't but
just be honest about why you don't want
to play it it hurts too much you're not
interested whatever instead of like oh
this is some unusual amount of pain and
you should always move in the opposite
direction of pain that's something my
wife and I talk a lot about it's like
hey that is an important lesson that has
to be taught is this actually the most
appropriate or the most suitable lesson
or opportunity to teach that lesson
right like
um when
when you um
when your kid wants to quit something
right they're playing the piano and then
they come home one day and they go I
hate playing the piano I want to quit
you go well I got to teach them that you
can't be a quitter in life but we have
to zoom out and go
wait did I force them to play the piano
was the piano ever one of their
interests or is this something that I
forced upon them and now they are
asserting themselves to want to get out
of something they don't want to do to
put energy towards something they do
want to do right and so you know is this
an is this actually an important
opportunity or an appropriate setting to
talk about whatever this sort of meta
lesson or virtue or value that you're so
concerned about and again I think about
this with Tantrums it's like yeah of
course you can't just throw a fit
anytime you know you don't like
something but is that what's actually
happening here are they actually
thinking that the world revolves around
them and if they lie on the floor and
Screen they'll get what they want or is
this a four-year-old who is been
overwhelmed by hunger or sickness or
some other thing that they don't
understand and they can't
separate because they don't know what
they're feeling
from like wanting this toy and the fact
that their body feels like it's falling
apart do you know what I mean and and
realize you actually do though I try to
just deal with the individual situation
you let them freak out like let's say
you're in a restaurant they start
melting down yeah what why do we need to
be in this restaurant do you know what I
mean like this
we don't need to be here we don't need
to do this we can go outside we can talk
about this and if we go outside and talk
about this
you're not going to be as overwhelmed or
embarrassed about what's happening I'm
not going to be feeling the pressure of
I don't want to be the kind of parent
that has a kid that does this like I
think so often what what really hurts
parents is not what the kid is doing or
not the reality of the situation but
their perception of how other people are
thinking about them or their
um
their sense of what whether they're a
good parent or not and that's totally
unfair that's all baggage that you're
bringing to the situation right like
one of the you know nobody likes to be
on a flight with a crying baby right but
one of the things you realize as a
parent is like this isn't a reflection
of me you know what I mean this is the
fact that I have a baby and the baby is
crying I'm not doing anything it's not a
credit or a discredit to me if they're
not crying because they slept the whole
flight that's not a sign that I'm a
superior parent that's just the luck of
that situation right and so when you
stop caring so much about other people
anything to do with that I mean
sometimes you do I mean you obviously
chose to be on the plane or not but like
sometimes the baby's upset sometimes
they're not true you yourself though
have said a lot of people are a lot of
people have kids but not a lot of people
are parents sure I'll tell you a story
uh flight child story so and this is an
international flight I am on my way to
England I am in coach bro this is not
current me this is past me and I am
going to see Lisa who lives in England
at the time and this little kid I'm
waiting in line to check my bags and
there's this family with this child kids
probably I don't know four or five and
he's losing his mind yeah losing his
mind throwing himself on the luggage
knocking it over shrieking wailing and
they they don't even say anything to him
and I was like Whoever has to sit next
to that kid oh my God I feel terrible
okay
so get on the plane you know whatever an
hour and a half later and I'm I'm
watching them come on the plane and
they're like coming towards I'm like oh
God oh God oh God ends up sitting next
to me now these Ryan
holiday it goes there's these are the
four rows right so goes uh Dad Mom child
me I'm like I'm sorry what like Ichigo
parent child parent me uh but they put
him next to me yeah and he is losing his
mind yeah like losing his mind like what
did somebody poke him with a like a
poker like a hot poker like he's he's
just really going bananas I I just can't
fathom yeah and they don't say a word
not to him not to me and then part way
through the flight
I don't know we're probably up in the
air 30 minutes with him shrieking and
I'm like in in at the time I would have
said like my Taoist pose I was just like
it's all good I'm gonna be totally chill
with a little kid nothing you can do I
can't go anywhere there's nowhere else
for me to sit
and he puts his head on my lap holds my
hand and goes to sleep doesn't say a
word not hi I'm Timmy nothing and I'm
just like
the parents don't say anything and they
let this child fall asleep on a stranger
yeah and in that moment I was like
now bro apparently yeah this is partly
the parents are like the fact that they
didn't put him in between them yeah
that's an awesome choice and that he
felt comfortable with me he leaned on me
he didn't lean on them and so I was like
whoa like this kid does not feel
comfortable with them for whatever
reason and does with a total stranger
and then he ends up being an angel
through the whole flight man it was
surreal well you realize with kids that
90 of it is so hungry or tired right
like it's one of those two things and so
one of the things I've taken out of
being a parent is just so much more
empathy for other people period right
like it's like I know my kid is
fundamentally decent and good so when
they're not being good right the the
expression is like your kid's not giving
you a hard time your kid is having a
hard time right
but this is also true for all people in
the world right like you know your kid
is acting this way because you skipped
nap or you know they got woken up in the
middle of the night or whatever but
maybe that's why the person in front of
you in line is being rude right and and
so the practice of
looking for a reason or looking for
something to understand
or pity even in other people is a
practice I've taken out of being a
parent it's helped me in the world right
to just understand people are going
through stuff kids especially are going
through stuff and then it's hard to be
them and so yeah to take from your story
like
man what what must it be like to be a
kid who's not comfortable around their
parents that's awful and that's not
their fault that's not something that
they can do anything about and so
how can I I can't change that I have no
legal recourse or it's not appropriate
for me to intervene in that situation
but I can let that open me up make me
better more understanding more patient
more understanding of both this
individual and then also all individuals
and so I I think being a parent has
changed me in that way it's made me more
empathetic more patient more
understanding more present you know
um in in the sense that I don't
extrapolate everything out or go if I
just let this person
cut me off in traffic well then am I the
kind of person that just the world walks
all over and does what you know it's
like none of this matters this is an
individual instance which is forgettable
in the bigger picture of things and so
I'm going to treat it as such or I'm
gonna go this person is going through
something this person is struggling
this person is not winning they may be
cutting me off here but I have a way
back I'm getting a way better end of
this deal and that I get to be me and
they have to be them and that that has
helped me just as a human being in the
world where do you draw the line though
how do you know that that isn't just
cope and you're not really being a
doormat like do you have a line I yeah I
mean I think that there is some line but
it's almost always never the thing that
you are getting triggered by or upset by
do you know what I mean like are you
ever gonna meet this person again is
anyone watching
um you know how fragile are your values
you know that like letting this thing go
I don't know that people's values are
fragile I don't think they Define them I
don't think people know what their
values are like when are you being petty
yeah and when are you having a standard
you you can reboot your life your health
even your career anything you want all
you need is discipline I can teach you
the tactics that I learned while growing
a billion dollar business that will
allow you to see your goals through
whether you want better health stronger
relationships a more successful career
any of that is possible with the mindset
and business programs and impact Theory
University join the thousands of
students who have already accomplished
amazing things tap now for a free trial
and get started today yeah look I think
about this as a writer right like you
get your notes back
and my first reaction is always like who
the are you you know
um or how dare you you know because like
I'm good at what I do I've slaved over
this and you're gonna return it to me
like covered in red ink
um
and then you know I sit with it and I
think about it
and with time I come to accept that
actually the vast majority of the notes
have Merit some of them are incorrect In
substance
but they're in the ballpark of something
being wrong and I'll I'll take I'll take
the fact that this was flagged and I'll
come up with my own solution to it and
then there's the other percentage of of
those notes which I have to have the
confidence and the sense of self or this
the sense of what I'm trying to
accomplish to go
you think I should cut this chapter but
actually this is the most important
chapter of the book and without it none
of this other stuff works or without it
it doesn't mean
to me what I want the project to mean
and so I'm going to be comfortable just
reject you know like so you accept some
of the things and you reject other
things and knowing what yeah what's
important and what isn't I mean that's
the that's the hardest thing to do in
life
um you know being the person who is
principled and strict about what matters
and what's right and wrong is important
but also so is compromise in
collaboration right and I think most
successful talented people probably
are already over indexed for
control and like the wanting things to
be a certain way and having a strong
opinion about that you're almost always
needing to correct in the other
direction
yeah this is this is where a lot of this
stuff gets really complicated and I
think people struggle is they don't take
the time to even Mark out what their
value system is yeah
um when you
when you don't have a Target you're
going to miss it every time and so this
is why phase one of uh mindset trying to
make your life better is always going to
be defining that stuff like actually
writing down what are your beliefs what
are your values so that you have
something to aim at yeah and
you know when I think about where we
started this conversation and where I
want all of this to go there there is a
milieu that people are in now in the
modern world where we don't really know
what to aim at things get very distorted
on social media
the way that information in fact here's
here's a a concept I'm trying to get my
head around maybe you can help me
there's something about the rapidity
with which ideas
transmit now that I think has a
deranging effect where something will
start as
um
a good idea and it rapidly becomes like
a cliche and then it becomes like a
post-modern
um oh God what do they call it
deconstruction you know of all of it and
so then like everything becomes cringe
and you know what I mean like there
there suddenly isn't a a sincerity to
wanting to be better or be good or
there's some term of value like uh or or
of worth like gaslighting and now
everything is gaslighting right it's it
gets used and used it repeated and and
its meaning stretches uh its definition
stretches to the point where it has no
definition it has no meaning and so yeah
I agree it's it's it's difficult
everything has a label everything has a
term everything actually means this or
then someone's saying that means the
opposite of this and it's very difficult
to keep to get and keep your bearings
and and so when I was trying to be
empathetic to like what it's like to be
a young man today I that's one of the
things like it's disorienting it's
confusing and
one of seneca's great lines is uh if you
don't know what port you are sailing
towards no wind is favorable and I think
this his other line is he says you know
uh you're on this path and he says you
know tranquility and peace and greatness
is is is the sense of that path and this
is not being distracted by the past that
crisscross yours this is even from
people who are hopelessly lost so if you
don't know what your values are if you
don't know what you stand for if you
don't know what you're trying to get and
then you're just scrolling on your phone
and the algorithm is just serving you up
what's most engaging what's most
provocative what other people are
looking at
it's really easy to go down rabbit holes
to get red pilled or whatever that is
and you don't want that to happen it's
disorienting it's it it it can take you
very far afield from where you want to
get where I think another great example
is like if you don't know what you're
working towards and why you're doing it
like you don't know where you're trying
to end up as a human being
you just default towards
what makes the most money what other
people respect the most you know what
everyone else is doing what's popular
right now and that's probably not a good
long-term prescription for either
success or happiness like why not
well first off if everyone's doing it
the chances of there being
long-term viability in it it's probably
low right and most of the things that
you do in life solely
optimizing for the financial return
you know
are probably not the right things and
it's probably not actually
sufficient motivation or purpose you
know
um
I talk to people and they're like you
know
uh I want to write a book I go oh that's
awesome well why well it'll be good for
my speaking business or you know oh like
I want to be famous or oh people
actually say that yeah or that they
don't say it's when you when you ask
this when you start to look at what
they're evaluating that success as it's
not I wrote something that matters I did
my best you know I made something that
had real impact they're they're just
thinking how many copies did it sell how
big was my Advance was my Advance bigger
than some other person that I heard got
in advance
and
those are not
great North Stars right the great North
Star is
this is what I was put here to do as a
human being no one has done this thing
before this needs to exist this will
help people right and
if if
um if all you're doing
what you're doing for is money
the chances of you ever getting enough
are very low and the chances of you
meeting someone who makes you feel very
small for what you have is very high you
know you could work your whole life be
incredibly successful at what you do and
meet someone who made in one day what
you've made in your entire life you know
you could meet someone who inherited
more money than you will ever have
and then are you gonna let it if if
the money was why you did it and what
constitutes success then all of that was
just taken from you
yeah yeah it's crazy man so uh I live in
a ridiculous house that I uh earned and
I can still myself up with a single
YouTube search of like the coolest
houses in America and you're like oh
those houses are cool man mine's like
whatever it is so ridiculous it is so
self-evident to me that it's ridiculous
but nonetheless I'm like wow there
really is like some bizarre lizard part
of my brain that cannot help but compare
myself to others and whenever that
comparison comes up empty like it
it takes conscious effort to reorient
myself but it's in those moments that I
realize if I did not have a North star
that I can write down and be like this
is what I'm trying to do this is what I
choose to judge myself against uh I
would be in despair yeah and I'm very
grateful that I learned quite early that
money didn't change my insecurities sure
and that I can't fix extra you can't fix
internal feelings or inadequacies or
doubts or insecurities with external
accomplishments or accumulations just
will not happen
and it is very hard to recognize that
without going through it yourself which
is the sort of hilarious thing about
life
but once you learn that then you can
start putting yourself on a better path
but my punchline is there is a better
path but no one's going to end up on it
by accident yeah you know Gabor mate
right all right so I want to go back to
the idea of addictions and how people
end up getting trapped because if I can
get trapped that easily in comparing my
house to other people uh I know how
easily other people are going to be
getting trapped sure Gabor mate talks
about addictions in life they are
covering up a trauma just period end of
story yeah I don't know that I agree
with that I think that there might be
something deranging in culture and look
I think life has always been hard so I
don't I'm not saying this is a uniquely
difficult time I just think it's
difficult in a unique way if that makes
sense yeah and so no matter in fact I
would rather be born now than any other
time in human history buy a country mile
despite AI Ai and all of the
insecurities and everything that we're
going to know
but having said that I do think that
there are these sort of weird deranging
things that lead to things like death of
Despair drug addiction only transport ah
um social media Doom scrolling
my question is
what is that thing like do you subscribe
to Gabor mate this is trauma and you're
just trying to mask it
or is there something else going and to
really complicate this question do you
know about ibogaine no okay so we'll get
to that in a minute but so what what do
you think leads people to these modern
addictions both explanations are
probably simultaneously true which is
that everyone has some kind of whole or
trauma that they're trying to address
and fill and then we also have
biological
urges an evolutionary desire to
accumulate to experience to do that it
makes sense that Evolution would turn on
and evolution never really had to worry
about how and why to turn them off right
like
um
Evolution would create in an Alexander
the Great desire to conquer right
because this would have all sorts of
benefits to one's uh
evolutionary success but would it have a
reason to ever make him feel enough
right to go this is sufficient I have
gone far enough no not really because
for probably most of evolutionary
history you died before you ever got to
that point also that guy that has that
push like you're just gonna keep going I
not a conqueror obviously but in
business I have that same sense of it's
just
and I don't think this is bad but it's
never enough and you I've heard you
quote I forget what language it what
language it is I think it might be
Haitian where it's like beyond the
mountain is only more mountains yeah
well I think that's true in life in in
not just about like uh opportunities
it's also just there's
always difficulties right I think to me
that's what that proverb means but I I
think even with an Alexander the Great
there's the hey this is why one is
compelled to become a conqueror but then
also he's got daddy and mommy issues uh
his dad is King his mom is ambitious his
dad neglects him mom Smothers him with
affection it creates a potent cocktail
that creates an extraordinary person but
also probably a person that you would
not actually want to trade places with
and so the work of my life has been look
I have this set of skills I have these
interests I have these ambitions
the same time how can I
try to be as good as I am capable of
being without being a slave to those
things
How can I
be a normal person inside of those
things and by normal I I mean sort of
what we were talking about earlier can
you be good and great at the same time
right
um have you heard the term an art
monster yeah from you but yes it's easy
to be an art monster in the sense that
you turn off all the other things and
you only leave the drive the ambition
the the talent on and I think that's
that's not just a an unbalanced way to
be I don't I don't think when you look
at the lives of those people
you're like it's fun to be them there's
a there's a Roman general named Marius
who is like the Conqueror of conquerors
he was the Rome's leading politician and
Seneca says about him he says you know
Marius commanded armies
but ambition commanded Marius and his
his point was that at the end of the day
this guy's not actually in charge like
the the the demon is in charge or the
drive is is is uh is in charge and I
think self-sufficiency be operating
under your own power
that's a
that's a better place to come from I
think it actually creates better work I
think it creates less harmful
consequences to the the outside world
right Alexander the Great Napoleon like
Europe is littered with the bones of the
victims of those men right like their
inability to just deal with the fact
that Dad was never proud of them
sacrifices hundreds of thousands of
people in these pointless Wars right
it's not a consequenceless decision
to be insatiable
as much as you think it is it hurts
other people
what's the barometer so if we're trying
to craft a North star if I'm a young guy
and I'm trying I'm I'm listening to this
debate I've got Andrew Tate on one
shoulder I've got Marcus Aurelius on the
other shoulder
um what's the barometer like Andrew Tate
has Bugattis and women and is having sex
with whoever wants theoretically as
multiple kids all over the place and
women that are willing to stay with him
even though he's Unfaithful and he's a
high value guy and makes tons of money
and the at one point the most searched
person on planet Earth
um
but you know why he's the most searched
person on planet Earth you know why his
stuff blew up online right it's not
because it's good his stuff blew up
because he started a a pyramid scheme
that
incentivized young kids mostly like
young boys to upload hundreds of his
Clips to the Internet so he makes viral
content that is provocative and
challenging and you know sometimes
speaks to hard truths that people do
need to hear a lot of it also confirms
biases and prejudices and sort of plays
to our lowest common denominator you
know Wicked narcissism yeah which which
is attractive and and uh do you think
narcissism is attractive or just plays
reads his confidence and that's I think
it reads as confidence but it's also
there's there's a re we like bad boys we
like people who say effed up things that
you know uh we wouldn't say we we'd like
mischievousness we like anti-heroes
right so he makes content that people
want but then he took hundreds of
thousands of dollars or millions of
dollars of other people's monies uh
other people's money and then in
exchange tricked them into propagating
his content right and so like I think
one of the tricky things about
narcissists and egotists is that it's
not an accurate picture of reality you
know I'm sure you have I've met some
extremely wealthy extremely successful
extremely powerful people
I don't see them driving Bugattis I
don't see them bragging about how many
people they're sleeping with
um I don't see them
anywhere actually right like most of the
power the truly powerful people in the
world want to keep as low profile as
possible right to your boy Elon Musk
homeboy is like out there I I would
argue that something broke in that guy's
brain and that I wouldn't I wouldn't
want to trade places with that guy for
all the money in the world
um you would get all the money in the
world if you enjoy the place with them
so it's true uh
what's the barometer so if it isn't
money and women yeah then it's yeah it's
are you making I I think I think a
couple things I sort of evaluate my life
or measure my life built around a couple
things one am I realizing my potential
like what the unique DNA circumstances
experience talents I have so get as good
as you can possibly get yes what is the
thing you were put here to do and can
you
extend that out as far as it can
reasonably go right am I making a
positive impact on the world right like
if everyone was doing what I was doing
uh would that would that work right you
know what I mean like
am I part of the problem or my part of
the solution that's kind of one of the
metrics that I look at right like but
even that makes a huge leap around this
barometer so making the world a better
place so just to keep challenging this
idea I don't know if he actually
believes it or again if he's playing a
character but uh Tate is going to tell
you that he has made the lives of
countless people better sure but if in
if it balances out with the fact that
you keep women locked in a house and uh
you know take a percentage of their sex
work sex you know sex worker earnings
you know
see that's where I think we can get
really specific so the the thing that
makes Tate all an illusion for me and
why I just do not encourage people to
listen or to follow that path is that
the the thing that he monetizes is vice
Laden in and of itself and so when you
think about okay like
is only fans gonna be the thing that you
want to help people get better at
knowing that the people that are using
it are in the darkest Place possible in
their life yeah and so if I step back
and look at that that's where I go okay
my internal barometer is take for
instance what we did at Quest it was
like I was showing up every day for my
mom and my sister they had been morbidly
obese my entire life I wanted to make
food that they could choose based on
taste and it happened to be good for
them and I made sacrifices that cost me
a lot of money to make sure that if they
ate those products that they really were
going to be moving in a better Direction
and that was hugely important to me and
it became the way that I really looked
at things same thing at impact Theory
right I've always said look I'll slide
to neutral yeah because I want
everything that we put out to be
empowering but I would slide to just
entertainment if that meant I could
avoid going out of business but I would
never go to the point where I felt like
if somebody takes the advice and this is
just how I think about it if you take
the advice of one of our Mentor
characters
it should make your real life better
yeah and if if that is anything other
than neutral yeah like you're not going
to see me do stories about somebody
where if you were to emulate their
behavior your life is going to be trash
so
at some point like you have to have a
thing yeah that is like okay this is my
barometer of whether I'm doing the thing
that I wanted to do in fact here's how I
explain it in business boys and girls at
home hear me when I say that you have to
when you're trying to do something Grand
with your life you must call your shot
say I'm trying to do this thing yeah and
this is the metric by which I will judge
whether or not I have done that thing
you need to say it ahead of time so that
you don't fool yourself and start
bullshitting yourself about whether
you're doing that thing or not because
it's very easy if you're failing and you
didn't lay out a metric am I really
failing because I didn't have a metric
you know so for me it's like impact
theory is here so that if you take our
advice the advice of our Mentor
characters on the entertainment side or
in these interviews uh that it will
actually improve your life as determined
by that formula that I laid out for
fulfillment yeah I think this is another
part of it it's not just in my part of
the problem or solution but like am I
acting with honesty good ethics uh
decency uh
uh you know how am I doing what I'm
doing right another problematic
character but I was at American Affair
for a long time and I remember someone
was proposing the dove that he could
like move the factory overseas and you
know make more money or something and he
said if all I cared about was making
money I would have become a drug dealer
and I remember thinking about that
because it's true like you chose what
you chose because you cared about
something other than just making money
right or you would have chosen the kind
of things that make the most money right
like for me to choose to be an author
I've already made a decision that like
making lots of money is not my number
one priority and then to write about an
obscure School of ancient philosophy
I've now doubled down on this choice
right I'm not saying I can't be
successful at what I do I have been
successful at it but but there are I
made a bunch of choices that put a fine
already that put a large Financial
ceiling on what I'm what I'm doing in
way that I'm totally good with because
to break through that ceiling would
require me to do things that I'm not
comfortable with that I don't think are
right so I have like a little note card
on my desk
because I it's in it's what's unusual
about what I do is I write about this
ancient philosophy that I did not create
that I don't have any ownership of and
that I don't see myself
as adding anything new to but as as
explaining and popularizing and uh
making accessible that's what I feel
like I'm good at doing right I'm not I'm
not trying to read Marcus realist and I
couldn't but I've read your books and
they're super helpful that's what that
you what you just described is me
succeeding at what I set out to do so
that means a lot to me more than selling
lots of copies or getting a large
Advance that's what I had an experience
with Marcus to realize meditations that
touched me personally and I thought I
want to give people that experience
that that they couldn't get
by me just saying read this book right
and so I have a note card on my desk and
it says am I being a good Steward of
stoicism yes so the videos that I make
like there's videos I could make that I
know would do better than the videos I
am making I don't make those videos
because I don't think it's appropriate
it's not what I want to do it's not what
gets me excited I could have people on
my podcast or I could write my books in
a certain way or I could sell things or
Price things at different ways that
would allow me to make more money but
would not be being a good Steward of
this thing that I I wouldn't say I was
entrusted with because no one gave it to
me but that it has fallen in my lap and
so I think about this with
like who makes the products that I make
where what where is the factory right
how much am I charging what am I what is
the pitch right like am I am I uh
hitting triggers that manipulate people
into doing what I want or am I just
persuading them to do something that's
good right like there's all these
ethical questions about how one does
what they do not simply what they do and
how much they're trying to do but but
how you do what you do and I think
that's a really important part of the
barometer because you could do things
that make you more successful that make
you more well-known
but you're eroding your sense of
self in the process you're eroding your
ability to look in the mirror and go I'm
proud of who I am and what I do and I
think that's a that's a short-term
trade-off with real long-term
consequences let's look at it in terms
of the
um building a YouTube channel is a great
example since we've both done that so uh
before we started rolling we were
talking about audience capture and how
quickly you can become a servant to the
algorithm or a parody of yourself or a
parody of yourself wow really well said
um I have frustrated my team three times
now as I've moved from phase one of
mindset to phase two and now into phase
three because it it really does like the
algorithm gets confused who are you
making content for and
um in any one time the headline and
thumbnail that we might have created
especially as we moved into phase three
um it became very easy as I became truly
obsessed like I'm not faking in any way
shape or form I think we are going
through the most disruptive time since
World War II and I think most people are
going to get caught off guard and they
are going to get left behind and there
is going to be a tremendous wealth
transfer as the New World Order takes
place and whether that's a rising China
whether that's a move to bitcoin whether
it's AI taking over whatever all of
these things together
I I am I see myself in the following way
I
cobbled together a bunch of ideas that
ended up being taoism meets stoicism
basically and through business was like
oh this is how you take control of your
life
and in doing that I realized oh when I
the so I taught a business course for a
while an impact their university called
business decision making the reason that
I taught that course even though it's
the worst title of all time is because
um
what people think they need is the 100
million dollar copywriting course but
the reality is if you want to be an
entrepreneur you have to be able to
solve novel problems yeah that's it yeah
like that that's life man so what what
is impact Theory the show what is impact
Theory the video game that we're working
on all of it it is trying to teach
people the set of ideas that will allow
them to solve novel problems not just
problems that they've never encountered
before problems no one has encountered
before sure like AI yeah so anyway in in
building out my YouTube channel and
moving into phase three we were like
every title was negative and they were
crushing yeah and in any one I was like
yeah that actually is my feeling on that
I'm I'm worried about this that or the
other and then as I step back and looked
at my channel I was like oh it's it's
like really making me uncomfortable that
it's just getting so negative yeah and
so you get into the if it bleeds it
leads thing so how does one avoid
falling prey to that how do you not
become a parody how do you not be income
audience captured how do you not become
a servant to the algorithm yeah every
once in a while I'll write something
I'll send it to the email list and and
someone will be like why did you say
this you must have known this was going
to piss people off or you know why did
you have to get political or why did you
have to touch this you know third rail
or whatever and and sometimes that reply
you know if I'm feeling cheeky about it
I just go I didn't build this audience
to not say what I think I built the
Audience by saying what I think what I
think needs to be said and that's what I
have to keep doing otherwise I don't
have the audience the audience has me
right like do I make YouTube videos uh
or does YouTube make me make videos you
know like I make what I'm interested in
what gets what lights me up what excites
me obviously I then think about what is
the way to to have that reach the most
people what is the way that
um will you know not be forgotten or
missed like you you do have to
understand marketing and promotion and
public relations and just presentation
like an author that goes don't judge a
book by a cover by its cover that's an
author doesn't sell very many books
because like the cover is there to be
judged right that's what its job is and
the thumbnail and the title and you know
the description these are the these are
rules of a medium or of a platform you
don't have to be a slave to them but you
do have to understand them and so I kind
of I try to start with what lights me up
with what's exciting to me what I think
needs to be said and then
then I try to translate it in the medium
that it is I do you know sometimes I'll
find myself I was being emotional I was
reacting to Something in the news I was
being petulant or judgmental about
something and when I go back and do the
edits or read it for the podcast I go
this is probably more incendiary than it
needs to be right and so I can adjust
that so I'm not needlessly alienating
people that I want to reach
um but then once I have confidently done
that I also have a wall around me that
makes it so
I am insulated to a degree from the
feedback I'm not reading the comments
the emails are not going to my inbox I'm
not constantly refreshing to see how
many retweets or likes or comments
something got because that's going to
mess with my barometer with my compass
like those people don't know what I'm
trying to do those people aren't
consuming the whole of my work they're
just getting this one snapshot of a
thing and what ultimately matters is my
sense my the path that I'm on not all
these people crisscrossing me or not
what other people are doing that's the
other mistake it's not even a feedback
that you've gotten it's you're doing
this and then you look over here and you
see someone else is doing it differently
and then you go should I not be doing
this should I be doing that and one of
the things I'm a big heavy metal fan a
quote that I heard very early in my
career that sort of formulated for me
the lead singer of Iron Maiden which is
this unique band that that makes kind of
weird music that's never been super were
popular never been sort of of the moment
but somehow is they've sold 100 million
records all over the world they're
they're almost 50 years into this as a
band totally sort of independent own
their
um she said you know like he said we
have our field and he said you can only
plow one field at a time so it doesn't
matter what the neighboring farmer is
doing on theirs right and so if you go
yeah it doesn't matter that other people
are doing it this way or these people
are doing this way how do I think it
should be done what's working for me
what are best practices
and then I leave everyone else to what
they're doing you know like I can't look
at what some other author even if
they're a friend of mine even if I
really respect their work I can't go but
but Mark Manson sold this many copies
the first week I mean we write totally
different things in a totally different
style we put out things at different
times right
um the idea that that I would judge
myself against him is not fair to me or
to him and so you got to be able to go
this is what I was trying to do this is
the long-term race that I'm running and
I tune out everything else
how how do you frame that and I'll I'll
give you some context of where what I'm
trying to get to
um I want to be the greatest that ever
lived at whatever I approach
and I have the receipts to back up that
I'm very very very good at what I do
yeah but I'm not the best at anything
and so before me is the temptation to
think less of myself because I'm not
Elon Musk or because I'm not Joe Rogan
there's always somebody who isn't a
little ahead of me they're way ahead of
me and so I realize that I'm uh
you know in the grand scheme of things
so far my career while impressive from
somebody that hasn't achieved what I've
achieved it's going to be forgotten
and so that requires me to do framing of
my Pursuits so now I think I have the
bulletproof way around it but I'm very
curious to know what you do I mean first
off it's all going to be forgotten
everyone is going to be forgotten and if
you aren't it doesn't do you any good
right Marcus Rios and meditations he
goes remember you won't be able you
won't be around to enjoy your posthumous
Fame and he says it's also worth
pointing out that people in the future
will be the same idiots that are alive
now right like different idiots but the
same right and so the idea that you have
to create this Monument of greatness to
impress people in the future to last the
longest to have the most is a false Race
So what I think about is I don't go hey
Does Elon Musk have more money than me
has insert author sold more books than
me is so and so married to a more
beautiful person than me
um you know it's to so and so have a
nicer house than me I think I was dealt
a hand I was I was born to certain
parents at a certain moment in time with
certain you know unique DNA with unique
interests I've had unique experiences I
was drawn to a unique Lane
and the vast majority of that stuff was
not in my control what is in my control
is did I get the most out of that hand
that it was possible to get out of that
hand right Elon Musk was born to a dad
who owned an emerald mind were you born
to a dad that had an emerald mind you
know were you born with his natural
genius at
science or math right a whole bunch of
things so it's it's insane that you
would be comparing yourself to this
person not just because you started at
different places like you didn't start
at the same Finish Line
as you didn't start at the same starting
line but you're also aiming at different
Finish Lines right and so I what I think
about what I think the race is it's to
realize your potential it's to make the
most out of what you have so I think
success is or you think about your
Tombstone it's like
he did everything he could with what he
had you know and
you have you know what I mean like are
you going to compare yourself against
someone who has a bigger podcast but
didn't start a multi-billion dollar
Nutrition Company you know like that's a
CR that but that's insane that's true
that's insane right you're comparing all
of what you're you're comparing part of
what you've done to someone who's only
done X right and that's that's not
what you were optimizing for that's not
the race you were running it's
interesting I don't get my wife reminds
me of that all the time and I don't get
any alleviation of my drive from that so
here's how I look at it
okay so I I make a moral judgment that
if you're going to do something you
ought to strive to be the you have to
strive to be the greatest of all time
knowing that you almost certainly are
incapable of becoming that so to avoid
that from being a torture chamber you
have to separate out the willingness to
to play at that level from the outcome
so one even if you become the greatest
of all time it will be a miserable
experience case in point look at Michael
Jordan who I don't know him I cannot say
for sure but I'm pretty sure he's an
alcoholic like just looking at the
jaundice of his eyes and stuff like that
like something I don't know about that
but I think he would stipulate that
he got a great gift and a great burden
in that greatness it's been hard to be
him it's not all been sunshine and roses
and victory parades he has a thing that
makes him great that he also cannot turn
off yes and
what I think happens to people like that
is they let their their ability to love
themselves to like themselves be tied up
in the outcome and so the one thing that
I told myself I learned very early on
the success can't be guaranteed but the
struggle can and so if I reward myself
for playing all out leaving it all out
in the field trying to make the most of
my hand playing this as well as humanly
possible 100 asking my talents knowing
that I have different limitations that I
think of it from a biological standpoint
so I look at Elon Musk the emerald mind
whatever like he's just brilliant at
understanding first principles thinking
engineering Etc et cetera I I don't like
to put limits on myself but I've never
found that engineering comes easily to
me mathematics is very much like a black
box that I don't understand so what I
what I judge Myself by is did I show up
and sincerely pursue the thing not did I
get the outcome that I wanted not did I
become the greatest of all time and this
is part of why I don't let myself think
about Legacy people ask me what Legacy
do you want to leave I'm like I don't
think about Legacy I think about living
right now I think about optimizing for
fulfillment right now I think about
doing something that positively impacts
the lives of other people partly because
of how that makes me feel right and just
it feels awesome I think about my
marriage right now I don't think about
like and this is part of why I don't
have heartburn over not having kids I
don't think about like what that will be
like Beyond me I don't need my DNA to go
into the future I I won't lie that I
don't think most people should follow me
in that path I think it is a way higher
risk path to walk sure I think having
kids is better for a whole host of
reasons but
because I don't think about Legacy
because it's not part of how I value
myself it hasn't been the troubling
decision that I think it would be for
especially people that can't have kids
yeah I think that's right I mean
did you leave anything
did you hold yourself back in some way
did you not do something that you could
have did because you were afraid because
you didn't think you were adequate
because you didn't want to learn
something to me those are those are
things that are in your control right
whether you were born in the right
moment whether it was appreciated you
know when you did it those are all
things that are not out here in your
control and so what are you going to
focus on I think that's the ultimate
question and I try to focus it on that I
think what's interesting is like
it's it's inherently subjective who is
greatest of all time anyway like Michael
Jordan doesn't have the most rings he
doesn't have the most wins you know he
he has some records but he doesn't have
all the wrecks he doesn't have the most
points right there's a whole bunch of
facts so so you're already saying that
some intangible ineffable
uh subjective thing so the idea that you
would compare yourself against other
people or that it's somehow a ranking
you know it's it's it's a it's a it's
it's a dead end it's just a dead end I
mean like again we're talking about
money like if you go by whether you have
the most money in the world well that's
not a known fact right this is like what
are you relying on you're relying on the
Forbes list or something which other
people are Lobby like this is like the
the anecdotes about rich people upset
that they're at seven instead of five or
the financial shenanigans that they they
show Forbes to try to get higher on the
list like this is a very well-known
thing just like my version of that is
the best seller list is not at all
representative or a remotely accurate
depiction of who is selling the best
basically the Bible in Harry Potter yeah
and it's it's it's not even a reflection
of who's selling the best over a long
period of time it's who's a reflection
right now which is irrelevant the second
it happens and so you know deciding what
metrics you use to measure whether
you're succeeding at what you do is a
really critical decision and then the
ability to once you have made that
decision
to tune out
the things that are not part of that
decision to be kind to yourself in that
regard to not
go
well I know I said this is important but
I'm insecure because so-and-so has more
you know that that's that's a recipe for
misery
why'd you have kids if the point isn't
to be remembered if you know you can't
enjoy your posture Miss Fame or the
posthumous love of your children why
make such a sacrifice I don't I don't
necessarily see it as a sacrifice uh
what in in the sense that like what it's
cost me isn't that meaningful to me like
I still get to do all the things that I
like to do
um and I also get
this wonderful experience that's opened
me up in so many ways it's challenged me
to get better in so many ways that's
forced me to be responsible
both two and four something
um I just I just haven't experienced any
part of it
and this could change I mean because
you're young but I haven't experienced
any part of it that hasn't been a net
positive and the things that I lost were
things that were not actually that
important or I wasn't really doing
anyway so
to me the meaningful thing about having
kids is
the opportunity it presents for you
to
give what you didn't get
to be better than the people or the
generation that came before you to to
try to make someone
uh a you know a a good decent
contributing member of society is uh you
know a profoundly meaningful
and difficult and heart-wrenching thing
but it's just it's just been an
incredibly rewarding and and beneficial
in all these ways when you think about
uh stoic life or
putting together a philosophy that's
going to allow because ultimately all of
these philosophies are about the self
Society becomes Downstream of the self
which I think is really important is a
big thing I want to get across to people
um where does kids fall in that is that
an intentional thing that you think most
or everybody should do like how do you
craft that that well-made life there was
this stoic name hierocles who said you
know every person is born
self-interested born selfish you care
about yourself you care about surviving
you care about advancing and then he
said that's like sort of the first
Circle the first ring and then there's
the Ring of
your family members your Offspring
there's the people who live near you the
people who look like you you know
there's your country there's the the
continent you're on there's these sort
of concentric circles that get bigger
and bigger and he said the work of
philosophy of life
is about pulling these
outer Rings inward
write about caring about and
contributing to
more and more as you go and I I found
that to be
really meaningful and purposeful that
yeah you have this inherent selfishness
this biological urge towards
self-preservation and self-advancement
and you could build your life around
that I guess
I don't think that works out super well
I don't think that gets you where you
want to go the decision to have kids or
to be a there's there's many ways to to
sort of have a family right
um they don't have to be your biological
children they don't have to be children
at all right but the decision to go like
these are my kin and then to also expand
the definition to expand the circle
outwards to include more and more to
include animals to include nature to
include unborn Generations that is is
the work of stoicism and it's that's
where this key virtue of Justice comes
in like you owe something to those
people to that future
um that's kind of how I think about it
what do we owe them
to leave it better than you found it you
know have you heard that Greek
expression uh Society is great
when men plant trees in shade they will
never know
you know did you kick the can down the
road or did you plant a tree that would
make things better for the future I kind
of think about it like that how do you
navigate
when people don't agree on what a better
future looks like so you've got somebody
like Elon Musk who wants to go to Mars
and they think interplanetary species
absolute must then you have other people
that are like how the can you
justify thinking about going to Mars
when we have issues to solve here on
planet Earth we got people starving to
death and you're spending billions of
dollars trying to get us to another
planet what the hell I think one thing
we have figured out
that's why we live in a free market
capitalist system it's the worst best
system is that uh
and you need a you need a portfolio
Theory you need a lot of people working
on what lights them up on what they
think the solution is and that
Collective
distributed uh
uh process or collaboration is the way
that we have breakthroughs the way that
we solve problems the top-down singular
person knows what's best for everyone
the central planning Authority has
solved it is uh has not worked well
historically right and so I if that's
what he thinks he should be doing that's
what he should be doing you know
um and if uh you think you know
raising money to distribute malaria Nets
in Africa is the best way to alleviate
human suffering
and you have a talent or affinity for
doing that like that's what you should
be doing
and uh
I know what I feel like I should be
doing and I hope everyone can figure out
what they think they should be doing and
that's what we need everyone to be doing
that's the only way you can screw up is
by doing the opposite of what you deep
down know what you should be doing or
you don't do anything you feel like you
don't have a person you know you do
I believe it's a great quote along those
lines I forget who said this but ask not
what the world needs ask instead what
makes you come alive because what the
world needs is more people who've come
alive that's right I think my students a
lot uh and impact their University with
that line like you know I'm just so
grateful that they come there to invest
in themselves that they're trying to
find that thing that that lights up
their day and that they spread that now
what do you think about the divide in
the country where we're getting the
sense of like no no the way I think is
right the way you think is wrong and
there's like this real sense of othering
yeah I mean I guess that's probably
always been there I think that's why we
have a political system that makes it
very hard
to get an overwhelming majority right
and what that's supposed to force is
compromise right it's supposed to form
it's supposed to create the need for
coalitions and compromising and it's
supposed to create a system that doesn't
stagger to the left when you have a
Democratic president and staggered the
opposite direction to the right when you
have a republican one but that for all
the the changes it it actually stays
pretty stable and I think the founding
fathers were very very Genius Like
gridlock is a
feature and not a bug of the American
system
and I think you you saw
during covid the flaws of the American
system but then over a long enough
timeline we did pretty good you know
um sure it was easier for China to do
certain things but then it made it
harder for them to do other things and
and and I've come to understand that
that's how the American system works and
that there's basically been no moments
accepting a few very grave crises where
it ever really worked in the sense that
like it's easy to pass laws easy to make
changes easy to reimagine and change
things it's not supposed to be that way
um now there are I think some very real
problems and we are facing uh a real
erosion of democratic Norms I mean that
in the not in the political party sense
but in the sort of fundamentally how the
system's supposed to work and what some
of the unwritten rules are and what good
faith in that system is even when one
has disagreements that I'm worried about
and alarmed by for sure
um
but I also have some faith that over a
long enough timeline
it corrects
why did Socrates hate democracy
Socrates lives in a time of 30 tyrants
right basically Athens
is at war with Sparta Sparta ultimately
wins this War uh it's a topsy-turvy Time
in have
the evidence that we have now of not
just the flaws of the other system but
the sort of long-term durability and
viability of the democratic system that
it is the best worst system you know
um
there is something fundamentally crazy
about democracy that says hey
everyone
brilliant people and idiots
deserve an equal say in how things go
right that that's crazy
um I'm writing about Harry Truman right
now in the book that I'm working on now
and like really Harry Truman was
basically a regular ass dude
from small town America that ended up
the president of the United States and
it was a remarkable test of the system
also a remarkable test of virtue this is
a guy who has he the remarkable test how
did he become president I mean he's a he
basically was County judge then he ran
for Senate
he's kicked upstairs he basically is
Anointed to the Senate by a corrupt
political boss who was tired of dealing
with Truman's honesty at the local level
he thought if I can get this guy out of
Missouri he will cause less problems for
me than if he is here so Truman gets
sort of kicked upstairs to the Senate he
has couple sort of
moderately you know
unremarkable moments and then he's
picked as
FDR's running mate
he never went to college had no formal
training in anything he's a veteran in
World War one he's still paying off his
debts from a failed business when he's
elected to the U.S Senate
um
which he felt honor bound to continue to
pay never takes a bribe never is engaged
in any sort of the corruption of the
times and cheat on his wife it's just an
honest dude it's PR FDR probably picked
him because he thought he wasn't a
threat and then FDR suddenly died and
now this guy is not only the president
of the United States He is the sole
possessor of atomic weapons at the most
pivotal moment in U.S history that's
insane that's like the fact that Marcus
Aurelius is uh you know the emperor and
the server it's not
what I just described to you about Harry
Truman is is not that much more or less
insane than let's just pick the
firstborn son of the current leader to
be you know what I mean like it's insane
it's insane
um and yet it seems to work less bad
than the other ways of doing it
um
but I just think it's important when we
look at the Ancients and we look at
their political theories like these were
people who'd not yet come to the
conclusion that we didn't come to here
in America until the 1860s that it's
wrong to own another human being or that
women are equal to men which took like
another 100 years right or that
um
you know people should be able to say
what they think without fear of
consequence or that people should be
able to do what they want to do with
their life like that you shouldn't have
to do what your dad did that you should
be able to move where you want and live
how you want and love how you want these
were it's important that we realize
although the philosophers sometimes
hinted at these were like hard-won hard
fought
Innovations like we didn't become a true
multi-racial
democracy in this country and I know
we're not technically a democracy but we
didn't become anything close
to a one-person one vote you're free to
do and live and be how you want until
the
passage of the Civil Rights Act and if
you were a gay person you know much
later than that we're talking like
within the last 10 years could you
legally marry the person that you want
to marry or within the last 20 or 30
years have access to certain kinds of
birth control or uh move and live how
you want like these this is an ongoing
process it is a procession of torch
passing and breakthroughs and changes
um that
that is shockingly
new and
continues and it's not necessarily a
straight line I mean we stagger
backwards and fall you know it's and I
think if we see it that way it also
becomes imperative for us to be engaged
and involved I was just going to ask
that's sort of my the the culminating
thing so part of the takeaway that I
have with Socrates and why he hated
democracy was they voted to kill him so
that's obviously you're you're gonna
have certain beef with a system that can
do that where it can create a little bit
of mob rule especially if it's a true
one-to-one democracy versus like a
representative democracy like what we
have
um
so as far as I can tell his beef was
like wait if you're gonna vote on
something you need to be educated on
that so if I'm right and culture is
Downstream of the individual what you
know going back to sort of what is that
ideal life
what do we educate ourselves on is
education sort of a moral obligation how
do we make sure that that's done well
well in the teaching of philosophy and
the propagation of myths and stories and
morals
was the one thing that they got pretty
well in the ancient world you know and
that tradition that great conversation I
do feel has
atrophied you know we don't study the
greats we don't know these myths you
know when you would have
when you would watch soccer when you
would watch Shakespeare you would
understand he was borrowing from
Plutarch and when you would listen to
Lincoln you would know that he's
alluding to and making references
two lines and ideas from Shakespeare and
from the Bible there was a common set of
texts and ideas and shared assumptions
um now was it predominantly sort of
Western and Christian
um yes and there were benefits to that
in the sense that everyone was on the
same page but it was also insufficient
and artificially constrained in that
Eastern wisdom was uh either suppressed
or unknown right and the stories were
overwhelmingly male and overwhelmingly
white and overwhelmingly you know X Y or
Z and it's it's actually wonderful that
it's expanded because we have more to
choose from and more to learn but if
there isn't a shared sense if there
isn't a shared familiarity with a core
set of ideas or principles it does make
it hard to have both the individual
barometer and the collective social
barometer
yeah I think this is a big part of what
we're going through now this is a big
part of why I asked the starting
question is you know in in a lot of ways
what Tate represents is the hyper
fragmentation the breakdown of any sort
of shared morals or sense of how things
should be
and when that all begins to break down
then you get this unmooredness of people
not knowing what they should be aiming
at we not having a common sense of
things ought to be this way
and part of what I worry about in the
modern world is is that velocity of
ideas that I was talking about so when
you get a breakdown of religion which
again I'm not religious but I recognize
the danger in not having shared
narratives yeah so you get a a world
where ideas travel with Hyper velocity
they very quickly become sort of cynical
takes on and I don't maybe there's a
name for what you're talking about
earlier but that sense of everything has
a name and by giving it a name and I can
put it in a neat little box I feel like
I understand it but in reality I've
given a headline to something that's
actually truly nuanced and by cramming
Nuance into a headline there there's a
breakdown of something that I haven't
quite wrapped my head around but that I
really worry about and as somebody who
feels like my lot in life the hand that
I have been dealt is that of solieri do
you know the okay so my poor listeners
have heard me talk about this so many
times uh there's a movie called Amadeus
which is about Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart
and he had a contemporary this is real
guy and solieri in the movie anyway he
laments to God and the fact that you
know Mozart but you don't necessary that
that already sets you up especially when
I tell you that I'm the guy that you
know wants to be the Michael Jordan uh
so solieri laments to God and he says
why have you made me just good enough to
realize I'll never be as good as Mozart
yeah why couldn't you have made me bad
at music so that I could be like
everybody else and just love Mozart or
be as good or better than Mozart but to
make me just good enough to realize I'll
never be as good is like this deeply
troubling dissatisfying thing and so
when you get this idea of okay there's
all this tremendous Nuance in the world
we are all grappling with
um trying to understand the Nuance but
if you're like me you're solieri and so
you're just good enough to realize I
don't know if I can comprehend all of
this nuance and I'm cramming things into
headlines and in cramming things in the
headlines it becomes easier to hold on
to but it becomes more difficult to
navigate the real world which is truly
complicated and so as I
think about this you know phase three of
how I am really trying to handcraft a
life that is fulfilling and just to
really put a fine point on it
um you constantly butt up against
reality and we've talked about a lot of
these things so you're building a
YouTube channel you don't want to become
a parody of yourself but at the same
time you want to get as much reach as
humanly possible so how do you master
the algorithm while still maintaining
true yeah um to what you're trying to
put out and for people that don't know
you wrote a book called trust me I'm
lying which is actually how I came
across you uh and it's about media
manipulation yeah and so seeing you I'm
sure you know still be a thoughtful
marketer but yet abandon some of those
uh less Savory you know tactics from
your Youth and so just because you can
and you should yes very true and so
anyway getting back to this this idea of
hyper fragmented you've got the
breakdown of religion hyper
fragmentation you have headline the
headlineification of nuanced complex
ideas that manifest as these caricatures
of somebody like Tate so when you
compare Tate versus Marcus Aurelius to
me it's cram everything into a headline
that's easily digestible in a clip on
social media versus a guy that writes
meditations which is him writing to
himself about how to be a better person
and so in the final analysis for me it's
like
all day every day I want to go back to
this ancient wisdom of Marcus Aurelius
to get back into the complexity of what
real life is to get into from my frame
of reference to get into the messiness
of biology to understand that I have
these subroutines algorithms I'll call
them running in my own brain that really
dictate what the outcome will be of the
ways that I move in my life and if I
align them and look there are ancient
philosophies whether it's taoism or
stoicism those feel like they are
somebody going what are the things that
make me feel calm and centered in myself
that I have been good that I have
contributed
and the reason I harp on the biology is
the biology is the reason you want to do
those things yeah because if it even
even if you look at at a normal house
cat it will toy with a creature as it
kills it and then maybe it maybe just
leaves it for dead like can you imagine
like going and doing that to like a a
seven year old like I'm just gonna break
his arm and like drag him around for a
while and then uh like when I get border
he's dead or whatever like dude you'd be
the biggest sociopath in the world and
so
knowing that there are like we're we're
there but for the grace of God go I
right so we're we're like one minor step
removed away from all that stuff and so
anyway getting into the complexity of a
life will live knowing that you have
these biological drives and
understanding that we're living in a
time that's pushing us towards an
agitate when in reality we need to find
a way to get back to these anchored
things that are in alignment with this
this sort of
long Arc of life being a good person
being in alignment with your biology
well what I would say to someone who's
young and sort of trying to figure out
their place in the world someone who's
sort of dissatisfied
disillusioned feels like the past
generation is filled with Hypocrites it
feels like the system is breaking down
feels like the certain truths aren't
true anymore and you want purpose and
you want meaning and you want guidance
and you're trying to figure out who you
should be and who you should listen to
like some flashy random person on the
internet
uh is probably not it what you need to
know is that the smartest people who
have ever lived have been asking
themselves those same questions
and that all the things that you're
feeling about this moment in time are
not as modern or as rooted in technology
or shifts or the economy as you think
they are this is what human beings have
been wrestling with since the Advent of
Consciousness right since we crawled out
of the trees and the bushes or the water
or whatever and we're like what you know
we have been wrestling with these
existential questions about who we are
what we do with this life we're given
and what does it mean to die what does
it mean to suffer and what does it mean
that people suck and are awful and are
evil that that the good guys don't
always win you know that it feels like
we're in Decline this is that that is
what they were talking about in the
Renaissance Sons that's what they were
talking about in the American Civil War
that's what they were talking about the
founding of America that's what they
were talking about in the Dark Ages is
what they were talking about in ancient
in ancient Rome and ancient Greece as
long as there have been humans there
have been people asking these questions
and the great philosophical texts the
great thinkers have so much to teach you
and you should Avail yourself Seneca
says you know only those who who make
time for philosophy are truly alive he
says and only they are truly wise
because he says they Annex into their
own life all of the wisdom of the past
right like you are struggling with these
questions you're not going to figure it
out by yourself and and if you do it'll
take your whole life you you want to
learn from the experiences and the
struggles of others and someone who's
trying to get you into a pyramid scheme
or telling you that it's going to be
easy or that it's somebody else's fault
like that also existed in the ancient
world they called them demagogues right
they're retirants in the ancient world
there were Liars in the ancient world
there were sophists in the ancient world
which were a kind of philosopher who
could make clever persuasive attractive
arguments but they would argue one thing
to one group and then the next day argue
a totally different thing to a different
group and that this this battle between
truth and what you want to hear what's
easy and what's hard you know the higher
self and the lower self this is
the Battle of The Human Experience and
that philosophy is there to guide you
towards
dealing with that and towards human
flourishing or the good life or any no
so say living in accordance with nature
like what you were meant to do how you
were meant to be that's what philosophy
is about and that's what I try to
popularize and make accessible in my
work but really what I'm doing is going
check out what these people said don't
ignore the noise that's happening around
you right now ignore you know the
attractive flashy controversial thing
right now and and go to what's Timeless
and true and then you know wrestled with
for centuries
well said have you seen the TV show The
Bear of course so I'm not surprised you
say of course uh that to me really
represents stoicism the sequence I think
if you're not with me yet you will be
when I remind are you caught up I only
watch the first season oh my God no
wonder you're not convinced yet all
right watch season two
um I without giving away the episode
I'll abstract it so I've often been
asked uh hey Tom I'm really struggling
with my kid like they're 15 16 they're
just not doing anything productive with
their life like what do I do and I'm
like look there's only one way that I
can think of to get somebody who's truly
adrift and get them back on track you're
gonna have to kidnap them you're gonna
have to take them to a desert island or
whatever put them with a group of people
whose respect they want to earn yeah and
then they will conform to the group and
if you can and part for people that
don't know the bear the bear is an
amazing show about uh the best chef
basically the best sort of Young Living
Chef he is at a three-star Michelin
restaurant and his brother this is all
the setup to the story so I'm not giving
anything away his brother passes away
and uh leaves him his like sort of
shitty local Town Restaurant yeah a
family sandwich shop yeah in like a
terrible neighborhood in Chicago and so
he decides to go back and run it and
he then brings with him the discipline
of an ultra upscale fancy restaurant
which you see and you're like whoa this
is like really militaristic and but it
starts dealing with discipline and and
all of that and dude season two is going
to blow you away if you like season one
you are going to love season two
um what you wrote a book called
discipline is Destiny yeah why
what you're talking about there is what
I mean when I say discipline is Destiny
it's not that discipline will make you
great it can right if you are
disciplined and dedicated and you work
hard and you have high standards it
radically increases your chances of
being successful but what true
discipline does true Mastery self
command does is it makes whatever you're
doing great while you're doing it right
so there's a there's a story about a you
know this this um successful General who
gets too powerful in Athens and so they
punish him by the people that fear Him
punish him by making him like head of
the sewer system and this is supposed to
degrade and humiliate him and he ends up
taking to the job and he gives it
everything he has and he cleans up the
whole system gets it operating properly
and then then it becomes this highly
coveted position right because it's a
culture of efficiency and Effectiveness
and it people see the effect that it has
on the health of the city and all this
stuff and basically the lesson the
philosophical lesson was you know a
person a job doesn't bring dignity to a
person a person brings dignity to the
job right and so how you do anything is
how you do everything what discipline is
is not a secret or a shortcut to success
although it is those things
discipline is the end unto itself I work
very hard every day on my books I'm
getting better as a writer
I think that contributes to their
success
but it's also great and meaningful and
why I get out of bed every day
independent of whether it leads to any
outcome at all because I could get hit
by a bus tomorrow but what matters is
when I show did I show up today and was
the thing when I saved the draft and was
done with it
was it the best it could be with the
time that I had for it that's what
discipline is to me
uh or discipline at its most meaningful
and important it's not oh I eat well and
I work hard you know or whatever that
that's part of it but
real discipline is that it's the command
of oneself
can it be built of course uh
certainly we know it can atrophy can be
lost right so we've we see it happen you
can sense it in yourself
if you I can't sense it in myself Ryan
you take that back over there
uh you can see it in the before and
after pictures of just about anyone
that's ever done anything so yeah of
course of course I think are there is
there a natural affinity for it sure
it's more impressive if that if it isn't
how you were built or how you were wired
so how do you build it
day by day minute by minute action by
action Aristotle it says you know virtue
is not any different than
being a builder you become a builder by
building things you become generous by
being generous you become Strong by
doing things that require strength you
know you you become disciplined by
making disciplined decisions
little ones to lead to big ones
which add up in a big way
so what do you say to somebody in this
modern world they're Doom scrolling
they've got six only fans subscriptions
they're you know on porn instead of
building relationships for people that
are struggling
um how do they pull out of that how do
they get it going in the right direction
I think you start small you start with
something
you start with something you know I'm
gonna stop this this like this is why I
think you know sober January is so great
it's like don't try to quit alcohol as a
whole what you may need to do but I'm
going to quit for one month
and then I'm gonna first learn that I'm
capable of quitting for a day in two
days and three days and four days and
five days until I've got a streak of 30
days
and then I'm also going to get the
evidence the information
that says hey I feel better when I don't
do this thing I'm better at X Y and Z
when I don't do this thing now obviously
look there are certain people who have
addictions or you're at Rock Bottom you
got to quit cold turkey right now you
don't have time for a thing but I do
think there's something about starting
small
and building
learning once again
the power of cause and effect and the
power that you have to bring about cause
and effect
and oftentimes when you see someone who
is
broken apart who is failing who is
struggling they have lost their faith in
those in that thing you know they have
lost
they it's been a long time since they
had any evidence of their own human
agency their own power over their own
life and you got to start by
re-establishing that somewhere however
small
I love it where can people follow you
and drink up more of this wisdom daily
dad is the parenting thing that I write
every day so you can go you can get that
for free at dailydad or listen to it as
a podcast and then the daily stoic is
the same thing free every day goes out
to 600 000 people all over the world
every single morning and then if you're
watching this on YouTube we're at Daily
stoic I love it yeah all right everybody
if you haven't already be sure to
subscribe and until next time my friends
be legendary take care peace
to explore these ideas even more check
out my most recent conversation with Sam
Harris there was a pretty gnarly one-two
punch between covid and Trump that I
really think caused a sense-making
apparatus to fall apart in some way yeah
and when people act in a way that I
don't understand