Kind: captions
Language: en
[Music]
the Fountain of Youth is a story as old
as humanity and typically it's a group
of people on a boat going to a jungle in
some sacred Temple and some elixir and
that's kind of been really what people
believe more generally a magic pill is
going to come that we take and it solves
the problems and what I wondered is is
the ability to slow the rate of aging
and then reversing aging that has
occurred possible now it's just hiding
in tens of thousands of scientific
Publications and a lot of really hard
work and so that's what my team and I
have been doing for the past two years
is collecting all the research doing all
the protocols and basically using
evidence-based medicine to explore this
question what is possible with today's
science
so in just like yes or no format do you
really believe where we're going that we
will actually be able to meaningfully
reverse aging I'm not saying that we'll
all be able to get to 18 but like is
this really a thing now
yes I love that you were thoughtful
about that I'm going to say something I
don't know if you're going to love this
or hate this so we've spent time
together before but it's been years
since I've seen you
and I mean this in a really good way but
you look like a Lord of the Rings elf
and like dude there's something about
the clarity in your skin the vibrancy in
your eyes I don't know so I'm really
really interested in slowing down aging
reversing aging I come at it the same
way that you do if when I lay my head
down I think I want to wake up tomorrow
then why would I not want this ride to
end we can get into some of the
complexities of of the question of ought
we do that later but I really do want to
get deep into the protocol so as I said
to you when you first arrived seeing you
on camera does not do justice to what
it's like to see you in person
um in terms of just the externally
visible markers of Health
really do like it does something to my
brain to be like oh this person looks
healthy
so the protocol I've I've watched a lot
of your videos on this you've gone into
tremendous depth about the blueprint
which I assume is the blueprint on how
to live in a way that slows down aging
and and possibly at some point will
reverse it but what is the protocol it
is very complex so I'd love to before we
get into the minutia what's the
organizing principle to the blueprint
that if you can measure every organ of
the body and let the organs speak about
what it wants to be in an ideal state
reference gold standard scientific
evidence and then create a protocol and
then have perfect adherence you'd create
a system where the body can maintain
itself in an optimal State now this is
in contrast to typically we approach
things in life where we think our brain
is the primary tool which solves all
problems before us well my brain as most
brains do is a cause of a lot of
self-destructive Behavior we are prone
to eat too much food or of the wrong
kind of food or drink or other
substances or spend too much time
consuming content not prioritizing sleep
and so the solution for me was to take
my mind it was very counter
counterintuitive remove my mind as a
problem-solving tool
Empower my body by measurement through
my entire body and then looking at the
evidence and so letting my body solve
its own problems of how to be in the
ideal state is the protocol and so I
just simply follow the data and so we
look at all the things you would imagine
like blood stool urine saliva MRI
ultrasound Fitness tests DNA methylation
microbiome everything we can measure we
measure and we take all that data we
look at the evidence and we just do this
again and again and so my responsibility
in this is to ensure perfect adherence
to the protocol and we can see how these
things work in an iterative basis I
heard you say that sleep and diet are
probably the two most important things
is that a true assessment given all the
data you've looked at now
it's a difficult
to
make too strong of statements about
power laws in the entirety because
most people reasonably look at this and
they see that it's not doable for the
average person yeah that's for your
protocol I will say that like I've got
the resources to pull it off I've even
got the discipline but I was like
this is a lot it's a lot it's a lot so
especially the part about needles in the
face that's why I was like oh God uh so
we'll get to that in a minute but so
okay it's hard to break down the power
law your point is correct if you're
going to get just a few things right
sleep I'd say
stop self-destructive behavior and get
good sleep like you don't even have to
eat vegetables berries and nuts like
that would be an advanced thing just
stop doing things that hurt you because
when you do things that cause
self-destructive Behavior it's so hard
that ruins your sleep which then ruins
your willpower to do be able to do good
things it's just a vicious cycle so
sleep well stop bad behaviors and it
gives you get you in a neutral position
to feel like you can start doing some
positive things in your life and gain
some momentum it's ironically it's a lot
of people we all know this uh if we go
to the gym and work out
we feel good about ourselves and later
in the day we want to reward ourselves
and sometimes we reward ourselves in a
way that offsets what happened in the
beginning of the of the good thing so
really the root of it is trying to get
at this self-destructive Tendencies we
have okay so I'll make a hypothesis
about what the self-destructive
behaviors are and why we do them and
tell me where I go wrong so I look at
everything through the lens of biology
so you're having a biological experience
I want that on my Tombstone like I
really want people if I die and you
don't solve this problem faster uh I
really want people to understand that
and to look at life through that lens so
they figure out okay the what you're
calling self-destructive Behavior there
was a biological route to that so if I
were to sum up quickly the biggest
problem people make is that they all
rounded to they eat a lot of sugar and
process foods and if they that's like
the biggest sin that everybody does in
terms of self-harm and to undo that
they have to understand that the thing
that's driving them to do that is that
your brain was created over millions of
years of evolution where food was really
hard to come by and if you came by
something that was calorically dense
that you were going to go after it as
hard as you could remove the brakes as
much as possible overeat over consume
and that food is it's not a calorie as a
calorie food is signaling molecules or
food are signaling molecules whichever
and so they're going to tell your body
to do certain things and the things that
you're prone to overeating because they
were so rare are typically things that
make you put on fat and that are going
to spike your glucose which then causes
a huge dump of insulin which then has a
whole host of problems so it's like
whenever like if I had you have 30
seconds Tom you have to like tell your
younger self or you have to impact
somebody I'd be like stop eating sugar
get a lot of sleep
um and believe that you can get better
which will set that aside for now but
it's like are we close like if we really
had to dumb this down or is it no no
like there's just something else
entirely that is the root of self-harm I
like your articulation it seems like you
identified a version of yourself or
someone else that you identify with I
did the same thing with me where I said
I'm a whole bunch of different kinds of
Brians I'm 6 a.m Brian when I wake up
I'm excited about the day I'm 7 P.M
Brian when I'm stressed out I'm out of
energy and I just want to relax and do
nothing and maybe have some food I
shouldn't be eating there's different
versions of ourselves and in these
different versions We behave different
ways yeah so in my case it was 7 P.M
Brian that was the disaster that he
would overeat eat the wrong kind of
stuff that I wouldn't be able to sleep
and I felt awful the next day it's like
it helped for me to think about this
um
we think of ourselves as the most
intelligent species on this planet yet
we commit we we have behaviors that
accelerate disease and aging and misery
and Cloud our minds and they dampen our
conscious experience
yet even though we do these things we've
normalized it to make it okay where we
celebrate it we encourage it if it's a
social Norm that's challenged we try to
ostracize a person or make them feel
like they're out of Step
and if we can muster up the greatest
sobriety possible about this
it's a little insane we commit
self-destructive Behavior I agree
so do you feel I feel like the battle
line is very clear it's you versus your
evolutionary impulses
is that how you read it or is there
something else going on I think it's
you're certainly correct that there's
probably a lot that has to do with where
we've been as a species a lot of social
norms where it's okay
to do the things you were talking about
eat a tremendous amount of sugar or to
drink excessively or to stay up and not
prioritize sleep or any number of things
what do you think about weed that's like
the most socially acceptable thing in
like in the world right now it's crazy
you want to talk about celebrating
self-destructive Behavior people talk
about it like it's the coolest [ __ ] ever
and I won't say that I haven't done it
but I will say that the times I have
done it I wasn't like I'm so [ __ ]
cool I was like this is a trade-off and
I am diminishing
future potential for today pleasure
so when you think about it's interesting
there's there's a nested idea inside
your mind I've watched enough of your
content that I think I have a read on it
um but before we get to the very complex
because people may not know for
everybody watching right now that you
also own a company called kernel which
is trying to I'm going to use words that
you haven't used but effectively read
and write in the language of Neurology
I'm not sure how you would phrase that
but to be able to see how we think so
that we can also
right
in the brain God I'm really reaching now
but that feels like directionally where
you're headed it's well said
nice okay so this is really interesting
okay so going back one one gigantic idea
at a time here so sticking with the
blueprint the protocol for change we
have these evolutionary impulses they
lead us to do really dumb things that
has created a society where we now
celebrate behavior that is very fraught
in terms of being self-destructive
certainly from an aging perspective and
also probably from just a mental health
how do you feel about yourself
perspective
so taking the things you've already
talked about
um okay so there's multiple Brians
there's multiple all of us Jordan
Peterson was the first person I heard
talk about this about you have entire
personalities around when you're hungry
when you're tired when you're
intoxicated if you have addictive
personality like it becomes a a whole
set of behaviors
and I think that's really interesting so
you have all these Brians you had one
Brian 7pm Brian that was causing a lot
of self-harm for all the other Brians
you are hyper logical so despite having
these human foibles you were able to
override that with some logic and go in
and say I'm going to remove that from
the equation and I'm going to use data
and I'm going how many organs are in the
body by the way 78 okay it depends on
how you classify them but that's already
fascinating okay so you're the only
person I've ever heard talk about I'm
gonna read data from all 78 organs I
didn't think we had that many so I was
already a little startled uh but I'm
going to read the data from these 78
organs and that's going to tell me what
Behavior I
God would you say can and can't do
ought and ought not to do like what word
do you use there it's a beautiful
question and it's at the heart of all of
this so I love how you framed out
the collection of ideas if we put this
then even a broader basket what I really
think is interesting for all of us to
ponder is we zoom out on planet Earth
and we say what is really going on let's
just remove all the noise we can it's
quiet the room as much as possible
what is really happening
and it could be the rise of
computational intelligence we call it AI
it's this new form of information and
knowledge and
creativity and all the things and we're
giving birth to it so there's this
question as this new form of
intelligence emerges in the world
what does that mean for us what does it
mean for all things
and in contemplating this
it might be wise for us to ask what
should we aspire to as a species
how do we get ourselves pointed in the
right direction
and so blueprint is not it may seem
about health and wellness and diet and
food is really not it's my best
guess
at the ideal way for all of us to
prepare ourselves
to walk into this future and that starts
with
I guess what I call Goal alignment so if
I think about myself as a 78 organ
system before it was balkanized and at
war with itself
so I committed these self-destructive
behaviors well in my mind wanted a pizza
party and drinks my kidney wasn't asking
for that and my you know my liver wasn't
and all my my DNA methylation wasn't and
so there was a war within me going on
this misalignment and I had to figure
out how could I achieve world peace
inside of me and that was when you let
these organs speak and everyone can say
I want this in an ideal State and then
you help the reconciliation process
this mirrors what we're doing with
planet Earth we treat the Earth
as we treat our bodies it's the same
relationship
and if we want to think about how could
we potentially cooperate on a global
scale how could we potentially imagine
ourselves walking into this future with
computational intelligence
it starts with our ability to align
ourselves in these interesting ways and
for me it was removing my mind which was
the cause of self-destructive Behavior
enabling a system to take care of me
this is this is the fundamental question
I wanted to propose if I could build a
system that could better care for me
than I'm able but I say yes to it and I
did
now there's all kinds of ways you can
slice that up because a lot of people
will say well does that mean you can no
longer have your pasta with friends does
that mean you can no longer and there's
a very long list of things that they say
I'm familiar with this I perceive these
things that cause me joy if I can't have
these things I don't know why I would
exist so it's just a knee-jerk reaction
it's
it's temporary and people work their way
around it but this is really the
fundamental question we're all thinking
about and to me
it's worth our attention uh it
definitely we are in a situation
where we would benefit by ruminating
that we are in a special moment of time
and we probably don't want to be caught
uh being behind
okay so caught being behind would look
something like we're trying to create
artificial intelligence and we really as
we're recording this AI is at the elbow
of the exponential curve and people are
freaking out in good and bad ways
because of how rapidly it's happening
now and this is I this is certainly the
first time where I've really been
consciously paying attention to
something where I see the elbow happen
and it is there's it breaks the
prediction machine that is the brain and
that's unnerving yes now I'm optimistic
about it but you're on to something here
which is really fascinating which and
I've heard you say this before
um
people talk about for AI to work we have
to get goal alignment between humans and
AI so the AI doesn't run into the paper
clip problem where it's like oh sorry
bro but your atoms would be way better
as paper clips and so I'm just gonna you
know destroy you to get at those atoms
so I can make more paper clips and you
said goal alignment with AI we don't
even have goal alignment with ourselves
that's right
okay let alone between each other right
yeah which if you've been in a marriage
you know immediately like there's a lot
of goal alignment that goes along there
that you're going to have to constantly
be working on which is utterly
fascinating okay so you have made
um
oh I'm gonna say it in a provocative way
take it apart as you see fit you have
made
a deity of data
and I think inside of all of us there is
a god-shaped hole
it has not played out as a religion in
my life not since I was a teenager
I don't know I know that you used you
were brought up deeply religious whether
I don't know if that Echo does an adult
or not but
does that sound right or am I missing
something
I would use an example a few years ago I
was in the Middle East with a country
leader and he offered up his country's
20 30 plans
and this was in 2017 I believe and I
said that's fascinating that you would
be planning 13 years in advance at the
time I was deeply involved in my Venture
investing in synthetic biology and
nanotech computational Therapeutics so I
knew From The Trenches what was going on
in those worlds from machine learning
and AI through the biology and and I
said how do you think you can possibly
plan that far in advance and he said
like how would you think about it just
as a playful gesture and I said okay
let's imagine let's play a game we have
two robot robots and the goal is to get
the robot to the furthest Sand Dune on
the horizon we can barely see it we can
do one of two things one is we can take
a topographical map of the sand dunes
program the map into the robot and say
go robot to that sand dune now we know
what's going to happen in a few minutes
it's going to be stuck in the sand
because the stands are going to shift
the map is going to change
the other thing we do is we say Okay
robot we're going to give you the tools
to navigate the sand no matter what
happens so as the landscape changes as
we know it will it navigates its way to
these endpoints and so all you have to
do is point in a general direction and
that's really what this entire thing is
with blueprint is I've basically just
said my body is a system with tools to
navigate Terrain
as it moves along so measurement science
protocol now the science is going to get
better the measurement is going to get
better and it just improves again and
again and again but my body is not
subject to the same problems of
self-destructive Behavior where I can't
move forward I've tried to put myself my
body in a position where it can have
compounded gains so as technology
improves
my body improves at the same rate of the
technology and in this case it's slowing
my rate of aging and reversing the Aging
has happened now there may be chances
where we start talking about enhancement
where we build Technologies in society
but if we start thinking about ourselves
that we really care to go together to
this distant point on the horizon we
want systems that allow us to move
through changing terrain what we don't
want are these maps that assume certain
things and so this is the the zeroth
principle thinking so when you say a god
of data I would say uh to me this is a
philosophy of zeroism
you have to tell people what that means
so the idea is
Talent hits the target that no one else
can
genius hits the target no one can see
Talent is first principle thinking so
you survey the world you identify
everything you can know in a given time
frame and you just you know those basic
things you make decisions
zeroth principle thinking you can't even
see the Target and so this is like
Einstein's special Theory relativity
where he gave birth to something that
already existed but just changes
everything or when alphago played Lisa
doll in alphago it played moves in the
game of Go
that could have been played by humans
but no human did and so humans saw these
moves it broke their brains and they
said it's as if an intelligence From
Another Dimension were playing a game of
Go
so first principle uh thinking is genius
it's a talent that no one else can see
and so that the
the hypothesis is
with the emergence of computational
intelligence
it introduces zeroth principle
breakthroughs at a rate faster than
humans have it changes the landscape
more and faster than we have been so
we're going to enter into a zeroth
principle world where the lamp is going
to change faster and faster in ways we
don't anticipate it's going to surprise
us continually in the same way at least
at all was stunned with alphago's play
we're going to feel the same way and so
the the idea for this is let's
try to zoom out on planet Earth look at
the situation we're in of what's really
going on
let's adopt systems of evolving
ourselves and improving ourselves so we
can roll with all these changes no
matter how the terrain shifts and we can
move into this future of zeroth
principle we don't know what it's going
to be we can't imagine it it's beyond
our own imagination it's it's a
and so it's really an i a an effort to
say we can recognize the special moment
we're in
we can create systems where everyone
wins
and we can shed
the characteristics of ourselves that no
longer service like self-destructive
behaviors that's really what I'm trying
to do the entirety so it it's about the
future of human existence ironically or
humorously Begins by eating broccoli it
and by letting your organs run the
system versus your mind the truth is
hitting your career goals is not easy
you have to be willing to go the extra
mile to stand out and do hard things
better than anybody else but there are
10 steps I want to take you through that
will 100x your efficiency so you can
crush your goals and get back more time
into your day you'll not only get
control of your time you'll learn how to
use that momentum to take on your next
big goal to help you do this I've
created a list of the 10 most impactful
things that any High achiever needs to
dominate and you can download it for
free by clicking the link in today's
description right my friend back to
today's episode
okay I think there's more to talk about
with the how you're getting
I think you're getting compliance in
yourself because you believe so much in
the data's ability to lead you to maybe
it's zero principle thinking where we're
able to completely come up with
something that we otherwise would not
have but before we get lost in that far
more philosophical conversation I'll
bring us back to the actual protocol
itself so you've brought a bunch of food
this is stuff I assume you eat on a
daily basis I've heard you say you
basically eat the same thing every day
so pull me down into what the data is
showing so we have 78 organs they're all
saying they want something do they want
the same thing like is there one
protocol that matches everything or is
it like we're doing 78 different things
every day hoping that it comes together
somehow yeah this is
yeah so my diet every day is uh roughly
2 000 calories
so it's a 25
calorie reduction of what I would
normally consume so I'm on a caloric
efficient diet so you're hungry all the
time I'm hungry all the time in fact let
me ask you really fast before we get
into this does your life suck
I've never been happier
or more fulfilled or more energized I've
never ever been in a better state in my
entire life even though you're hungry
all the time yes interesting okay so
we'll get into that after you show me
what you're going to eat I wouldn't
trade my life for anything right now wow
it has never been better that's
incredible sleep diet
okay yeah steering by the data kicked
off by our 78 organs basically this is
2000 calories every calorie has to fight
for its life to exist because it's such
a small budget and my body needs to have
all the nutrients it needs to be ideal
so so the objective was how do you
create a perfect diet
and so for breakfast I eat this dish uh
called super veggie which is black
lentils broccoli cauliflower mushrooms
garlic and you named it super veggies
yeah I did okay yeah so I ate 70 pounds
of vegetables a month oh my God
Jesus okay that's a lot uh an hour later
two hours later I eat nutty pudding so
you don't eat it all at once no I used
to do one meal a day my body fat went
down to three percent whoa a bit too
long how low were your calories same two
thousand just having it all in in a
single window it had the effect of
dropping my body that's competition
that's like bodybuilding up on stage
let's go I'm a step away from dying I
mean three percent that's insane man I
mean I'm 5.1 now so I thought you were
trying to bump it up uh yeah so three
three's too low sorry I haven't heard in
an interview somebody put the words in
your mouth so I have to be more careful
with that that you were trying to go up
to like six and a half or seven percent
I mean I've been there I'm five right
now so it kind of hovers my wow five to
six range okay and that's comfortable
you're hungry but it's comfortable yeah
it's the five percent is enough
subcutaneous fat because your heart
needs fat you need fat in your body and
so we're comfortable with five-ish
percent okay so one meal a day it was
two you're getting too lean which is
already interesting from a fat loss
perspective intermittent fasting is
doing its job
so how much do you spread this out sorry
six hours total window total window of
time is six hours starting first meal is
what time five six a.m a.m whoa so you
get up and eat or do you get up crazy
early I get up and I drink this this guy
guy here so like I'm wiping the sleep
out of my eyes and I interesting yeah so
I have a an Unwritten rule that I don't
eat so I wake up usually four to five
A.M
I don't eat until roughly 9 A.M and I
eat all of my food in a pretty narrow
window five to six hours
[Music]
um
two meals only
and but I've always thought that I
needed to wake up work out fast did all
of that but not true
because you're way leaner than I am okay
so on these questions my experience has
been I trained as a pilot I got my
license as a pilot in multiple airplanes
even though I'm a competent pilot I'm
Never As Good As a professional pilot
[Music]
they do it every day they think about it
day in day out they just have higher
levels of skill than when I jump in and
jump out
the same is true with blueprint this
team I have led by Dr Oliver zollman
this is all they do they're consumed by
it night and day when they don't have
anything to think about they're thinking
about this
and even among the most elite experts in
health and wellness they disagree with
each other you know this like there is
absolutely no agreement on just about
anything
and so
the it's important uh as a system that a
team run in a way that has some way to
try to tease out signal from noise and
then do something and see if it works we
don't know all the answers and that's
why we're testing these things we're
this is why I'm doing all this is we're
trying to punch through these open-ended
questions and debates that never ever
resolve
it's never ending debate and so in these
cases of of your question of is it
optimal to eat before you exercise or
after you exercise
I don't know the specifics but I'm sure
you could open it up and it would be an
endless debate among experts on the
ideal status of doing things yeah and so
we we just don't get involved in those
arguments because uh there's limiting
there's some returns in doing that and
so we've set up a system of evidence of
analysis of protocol of measurements
does that mean you had to agree on what
are the optimal State for the 78 organs
that we're measuring you had to have an
ideal in mind to be able to steer
towards it so at some point either
you're saying that
um we we did get a group of people to
agree on these things or this is where
our hypothesis lies yeah and for people
that aren't super familiar with the
scientific method so hypothesis
basically a best guess a theory is
something that has proven to work even
though it may not be ground level truth
yet
so
is this your hypothesis is this a
working Theory like where where are we
at how did you get consensus there
I think the data speaks for itself so
you look at the highlights of what we've
done for two years so one my my speed of
Aging using
an epigenetic DNA methylation clock okay
so looking at what exactly so anybody
that's followed me for a while they've
heard methylation talk before so you can
get kind of nerdy and as long as I can
track it we're in good shape if we're
looking at these biological expression
patterns in our body that have some
relationship to aging uh these aging
clocks are not yet gold standard they're
they're silver standard is there a gold
standard or we're just working not not
on not like phenotypic markers okay so a
methylation is still still silver
standard but if you look at the entirety
of my data so you say uh one is uh last
year I set a world record in reducing my
epigenetic age 5.1 years and seven
months using using six clocks not one
six I didn't cherry pick a clock so
let's just say okay I put you in the
clocks are up and are up and coming fine
we'll take out the grain of salt second
my speed of Aging so the pace in which
my body ages is 0.76 what do you look at
for the DNA methylation okay this is
based upon a a multi-decade longitudinal
study based out of New Zealand okay it's
called the Newton I'm going to tell
people what DNA methylation actually is
I'll probably get it a little wrong and
correct me where I do so DNA methylation
you have these little things like
certains is that what's running around
on the DNA I can never remember but
there are little things that run around
the DNA they're probably a protein and
they are marking the DNA saying this is
a liver cell this is a brain cell this
is an eye cell and thusly you should
only read these sections so read here
stop reading here
and every time a cell gets damaged it
has to go in and like remark it and say
okay this is the part to read and not
read and aging is effectively the D
differentiation of cells your eye cell
begins to forget that it's just an eye
your liver cell begins to forget that
it's just the liver so on and so forth
and so it stops doing its things well
because the things reading the DNA are
basically being told to read the wrong
parts of the DNA and so it starts to
basically get confused and that is aging
yeah and I'd say yes and if a detective
when in your body and it's looking at a
crime scene they might find some details
in how your body's expressing itself in
these data imagination patterns
interesting so there's something being
revealed in the patterns that you
methylate your exactly you look at these
patterns and it's just like it's like a
biological age versus chronological age
so there's a type of malfunction in the
methylation that we can see there's yeah
there's patterns
that that manifest themselves in the
body so we know that just at a basic
concept we know roughly what uh we know
how a 15 year old's heart should look
like with the characteristics of its
functionality and also it's anatomical
we know what an 80 year old person's
heart how it functions and what it looks
like they're very different Hearts
you're not going to confuse a 15 year
old and an 80 year old heart if looking
at an MRI or even looking at it in
tissue right and so there's you can
biologically age and so DNA methylation
is to say we can identify patterns
that reveal and so this is what they're
sorting in the science it's fine but
what I may be trying to get in a quick
summary is I have over 50 perfect
uh biological markers and their Optical
clinical outcome range so that's like my
cholesterol and you know the
triglycerides like all the usual things
people talk about I have a hundred
biomarkers that are less than my
chronological age I set a world record
for reversing my my epigenetic age my
speed of Aging uh which is currently
0.76 I'm number one
out of 1750 people that have been
measuring their speed of Aging over
several years
for total reduction of age and so so for
every calendar year
you age .76 of a calendar so that
jokingly I say I get October November
December for free you know but like
let's just say uh let's discount all my
data and say okay we think that the
science is like
70 correct in that area
it's still a pretty compelling
data set to suggest that what I'm doing
may be interesting and it may be in the
right direction so it's not this is not
to state that we've figured everything
out that everything's perfect that we
know all things it's meant just to put
forward all the data we have and say
pretty interesting if you build this
system measurement evidence protocol
then look what it's doing and that's
what really we're trying to do and so
step by step and of course everyone's
going to look at this and they'll nip at
it from One Direction or another
wonderful like that's the process that's
science that's how we're going to
improve but by open sourceness and
sharing with everybody others can
implement it they can improve it they
can generate their own data so it's
really meant to try to punch through
the game we're playing is not this is
not the game the game we're playing is
the future of the human race that's so
interesting you're taking us back to the
philosophical side we're gonna get first
to the broccoli and the mushrooms and
all that stuff but it really is
interesting it was one of the notes that
I took when I was doing the research is
that you're really coming at this from
from uh I'll boil it down to Ott versus
can
and
in my language and I don't know that
everybody would agree with this but in
my language art is a moral statement we
ought to be doing things in this way and
you introduced me to an interesting idea
when we first met and you were talking
about you talked about data and the data
that all of us kick off from behavioral
to biological in a way that I'd never
contemplated before and it seemed too
big of a problem to solve at that time
but I haven't stopped thinking about
that and as somebody so we're building
in the metaverse and now I think a lot
about whoa I'm going to be influencing
the way that people think about life
um that if Jordan Peterson is right and
it brings out like psychopathy and that
the way the algorithms work they tend to
like reward people with dark Triad
Tendencies so I'm like wow we really
have to be thoughtful about this so
bringing that back to what you're
talking about now it's like
okay if we're building Ai and you've
talked about the computational and
distribution cost of intelligence is
going to zero so basically now we all
have a genius in our pocket that can
take us from it doesn't exist to
existing with these huge breakthrough
insights
okay well now all of a sudden we really
have to get alignment and all of that
alignment starts with the food that's
sitting on this table here which is so
that rings so true to me in terms of
what I know about the like just getting
people to understand I don't want to
talk about diet I don't want to talk
about exercise but all these cool things
that I do want to talk to you about I
can't get you there until we talk about
this yes
with that we have broccoli we have uh
cauliflower which I hate so you're gonna
have to make me a Believer and mushrooms
which I I am so freaked out by mushrooms
but I learned a lesson
so I had real food trauma as a kitten
and
it's it's a fascinating thing my mother
and I see my childhood very differently
so I had a lot of food trauma uh eating
Rice-A-Roni and like really basic
horrible things as a kid over and over
and over just that was how I grew up
and when I got older I my whole thing
was no one will ever get me to eat
something I don't want to eat again ever
ever ever I end up marrying a Greek girl
her family's constantly offering me all
this weird food I do not want to eat it
and but I didn't want to offend my
father-in-law and then we finally got to
the point he would always offer me two
things there there's this weird cheese
that they have called halloumi cheese
they're cypriot now halloumi cheese if
you grew up like I grew up with American
cheese it melts cheddar cheese melts
swiss cheese melt those are the only
cheeses I was ever introduced to
halloumi doesn't melt you can put it on
open flame and it doesn't melt it'll
burn but it doesn't melt and so I was
like I'm never going to eat something
that a cheese that doesn't melt that's
too weird and so anyway one day he's
always offering me two things so I can
always take the other thing and not try
this freakish cheese and one day still
not wanting to offend my father-in-law
he only offers me halloumi and I'm like
oh this is a test
so I'm like damn it I have to eat this
cheese otherwise I'm gonna offend my
father-in-law and I eat it and it was
like fireworks went off in my mouth it
was so delicious and I was like I have
missed out I think it had been I'd known
him for four years and I was like I had
missed out on four years of eating this
incredible cheese because I was scared
so I was like if somebody offers me food
sincerely they're not trying to mess
with me if they're offering me food
sincerely I will try it every time
I can only imagine you were offering me
this sincerely so I'm going to give it a
shot all right so mushrooms broccoli
quinoa what was the other thing in there
black lentils lentils
all right where do we start well I guess
it is a question do you prefer to eat
your sweets before Savory or savory
before Oh Savory before sweet okay so I
would I would probably dip into the
Super veggie or some broccoli all right
let's see what we got here
is there a particular like
broccoli mushroom cauliflower all in one
bite kind of thing you know just cooked
this is softer than I thought it was
yeah it's all steamed so for FODMAP to
avoid getting indigestion you know
making it comfortable for your
microbiome everything's steamed nice
it's important to take seven to eight
minutes
and then oh God the mushroom so freak
out yeah yeah I'm a talk here yeah
all right here we go let's do it all
right
other than the texture mushrooms which
I'm super sketched out by tastes great
great what are you putting on it um is
it literally just
Steam and the natural thing or is there
eye sauces I could add no sauces uh
sometimes I'll sprinkle with no salt
which is potassium chloride so it's a
replacement for sodium but no just I
puree mine so it's like a veggie hummus
why puree it uh because the volume I eat
it's uh almost uh 900 mL uh mL of volume
it's very large and so I have a lot
going on in life and to eat that much
vegetables every day purees
what do you chew
masticate uh all these other my third
meal of the day uh nutty pudding in the
berries and so we're about putting again
but the berries are whole yep and in a
third Mills hole Yeah so the third Mill
is vegetables
um nuts Berry so sweet potato or
that was good again the the mushroom I'm
a little sketched out by why why
broccoli why cauliflower this diet is
not the only way to win so I'm vegan by
choice not by necessity so this is not
to say that someone couldn't achieve
similar or better results than mine
doing other things interesting totally
fine we need to talk about mtor so uh
we're back to Ott now so you're eating
this way because you believe we all
ought to it uh I'm eating this because
of the concept of what Alfred North
White had said
civilization advances by the number of
important operations it can automate
without the person thinking about it
and if I contemplate
what are the most majestic games my
conscious mind could play
that's a question and a half
and let's just for a moment try to
create some separation with everything
we hold near and dear right now
and let's just open ourselves up and say
what are the most majestic things we
could experience
there's of course a little band of what
we could see and think about and imagine
and be creative and then there's this
gigantic space of unknown of surprise
and when I think about that as the
potential future I'm motivated to spend
my time energies doing that
and so
eating this food is among the most
delightful experiences of my entire day
I love every second of it
I also appreciate it that it is now
solved in my life I don't spend 40 of my
day thinking about what I'm going to eat
or trying to order what I'm going to eat
or trying to it's all just built into a
system so I can have my mind pointed in
somewhere else
so the goal here is not that everyone in
society creates their own version of
blueprint the idea here is that Society
creates blueprint as the norm it is
unfair to the individual
that they're set out in society and they
have to navigate on a daily basis
McDonald's
and Snickers and Tick Tock and
everything else it is unfair and this
goes back to your point on data if
you're when you're you are broadcasting
data
the capitalistic system is taking this
and then using it against you so you
commit greater self-destructive
behaviors
and then we celebrate it and then we
call people weird when they don't
participate in it the whole system is
rigged against us meanwhile
we worship our technology
we are willing to sacrifice ourselves
for technology we're Martyrs for
technological progress yet we have
almost
we have a minuscule amount of attention
focused on improving ourselves and it
should be the exact opposite the new
Apple keynote should be the new
blueprint we should be able to Showcase
human advancement
in ways that are stunning and exciting
to get everyone on this movement of how
do we prove ourselves individually
uncollectively and if we look at
ourselves in 10 20 30 40 years we might
look back and say that was obvious like
why did we
sacrifice ourselves for this
technological advancement why did we
just grind ourselves Drive ourselves
into the ground why do we encourage each
other to do all these self-destructive
things why do we allow it to happen to
ourselves we might consider ourselves to
be insane
and just a snap of sobriety would say of
course like why wouldn't we move forward
in this fashion and that's what this is
meant to do is we naturally grab it
towards gravity towards things that
improve our lives
and if we could have systems that help
us do that you know could we say yes to
it in a way that it doesn't threaten our
being it doesn't threaten our media
making doesn't threaten our our
identities we say cool because we really
want to play bigger games than existence
all right that's super interesting and
we will certainly continue uh balancing
this Razor's Edge of practicality and
philosophy which I actually really do
find interesting I want to understand so
you've answered the question why you eat
veggies over meat so I get that I and I
think it'll be important for us to go
into the N of one
um idea but right now I want to talk
about you have you said every calorie
has to fight for its survival in terms
of the right to be consumed by you
I'm very curious
I'm going to ask one question before we
we go on with this which is
I think of nutrition as so n of one if
for no other reason than your microbiome
but nutrition is so n of one that will
never get to 100 one blueprint for
everybody but I also think throwing up
your hands and saying well it's hopeless
because it's all in one is also a
mistake so I'm gonna guess that 85
percent of the blueprint will be the
same for everybody and then there's
going to be 15 new ones but I'm going to
set aside the 15 new ones but my
question is do you agree like is it 80
is it four percent is going to be
Universal like how much of this is going
to be blueprint for everybody and how
much is going to be individualized those
that data will naturally emerge over
time do you have a gut instinct though I
wouldn't dare to guess really
interesting I'm so I think that it I
think everybody
ought to be willing to say this is how I
think about the problem so I always find
myself spouting off about things I'm I
know that I will definitely change my
mind like I I will 100 follow the data
but I need organizing principles okay
anyway so your organizing principle
you're not sure so going back to this
bowl here
um your 78 organs are competing every
calorie has to like justify its
existence but this bowl has raised its
hand in the data and said for all of the
78 I'm one of the best things that you
could do you've already been clear maybe
there's a meat protocol or whatever that
will do the same thing or maybe it's
even better but the data has said and
your Elf like appearance backs it up uh
that this is effective but I don't yet
understand why so what what is hiding
not hiding what is the the matrices of
these items that the 78 organs are like
yes please yeah I mean for example if
you uh if my 17 year old and I
both do our blood panel so we're looking
at liver enzymes and we're looking at
all of our basic blood panel
were nearly indistinguishable it would
be almost it's almost impossible to tell
the difference between his and mine
and that's what this food has produced
but why isn't this box showing collard
greens it could you know it could be
it's just that the wisiness tomatoes I'm
now picking night shades on purpose why
isn't this tomatoes and eggplant and
peppers as a team uh we look at the
evidence we try to find gold standard
evidence so
um with a random control trial and we
say you know blank has shown to do blank
in this organ or this biological process
and that's what the result is here so
broccoli cauliflower mushrooms and
lentils get the blood panels that we
want
and you've tried how many things have
you tried a lot yeah they have for me
they have for a lot of people around me
and so again it's
um
your statement is is you know you're
directionally correct that for some
percent of people
this will work for another percent it
won't work and how much of a difference
we don't know and so the blueprint is
less about the exact things and more
about the system of measurement evidence
protocol and I assume because that that
system so you put out a video
so I know a little bit about this you
put out a video where it's like here are
all the crazy things that we do it's so
overwhelming that even somebody with
like my identity is I'm one big
throbbing uh discipline molecule I don't
even know how to finish that statement
but like I I am disciplined like
incarnate yeah that that's how I see
myself and when I watched that video I
was like yeah no like it's so complex
like the machines and you spend more in
fact this will sum it up if I don't even
mind the money
it's the time you spend more money on
your body every year than LeBron James
okay let people at home let that one
sink in so this protocol is very robust
and the the Gap I'm trying to bridge is
we keep talking about the protocol like
sort of in The Ether without like really
grounding it but because I've seen the
whole thing it's so complicated I know
we have a bunch of your supplements here
and we need to get into that so I'm I'm
gonna say for now for the sanity of
people watching this
we're going to continue going through
the foods that that we have here and
while there is going to be n of one
variations if you're going to get into
this because I've seen the level of
complexity most people should just eat
what's in the bowl and and I'm gonna
take this sort of on Blind Faith that if
I want to replicate the protocol rather
than me go do all the things you're
doing because I'm not willing to just
being completely honest that I'm just
going to eat this okay that that's
guidance for myself on how to run this
interview okay so uh these are the
things that the data has kicked off for
somebody doing this in a vegan format
Okay so we've got our super veggies
which you smoothie the [ __ ] out of uh
because you don't want to chew the 70
pounds a month I don't mind chewing it
I hummus is among is my favorite food
what do you dip in the hummus though
vegetables okay so we we save some of
our broccoli so our the third meal of
the day could be a hummus I'm just
saying generally speaking hummus is
among my favorite foods got it
super veggie is hummus it's just ground
texture yeah yeah exactly and so a lot
of people look at it and the texture
triggers these associations in their
mind a lot of people Factor right
mushrooms hidden in a hummus would be
far better so it's my sanity it's a lot
of fun for people to poke with a thing
and make funny jokes it's hummus and I
have hummus for breakfast and it's just
chock full of vegetables and so yeah so
that's the uh breakfast I like to in the
morning
so then I also drizzle olive oil on this
and I also put chocolate in it that's a
new that's a recent addition
into the hummus or separately into the
hummus interesting yeah you taste the
chocolate yeah so it's a really weird
combination let's start eating through
this stuff so so you here we've got the
chocolate these are going to be bitter
as hell right they are yeah so because
this is like straight up that's right so
what makes this special what brand is
this we think about everything uh this
chocolate's a good example of a five
level stack of thinking so first
statement is chocolate's good for you
second is dark chocolate is good for you
third is dark chocolate undunched is
good for you fourth is dark chocolate
untouched without heavy metals is good
for you and the fifth is dark chocolate
untouched not heavy metals with the
highest polyphenol count
and so with every one of these things we
want to get to level five on every
single thing and that's what again what
this is is it's had to survive a
tremendous amount of scrutiny to arrive
so that is pure 100 dark chocolate it we
have tested for heavy metals with high
polyphenol count we have several
suppliers we have several supplier if we
work do you not like to talk about the
brands no because we're actually going
to make our own one I was going to say
like literally I was like talk to Brian
about getting into business in food
because it's very hard it's very hard to
find to make a hummus Prime exactly but
the the chocolate you know it it's
delightful to eat and so then you pair
70 pounds of vegetables with 100 d