Kind: captions
Language: en
what do you begin to learn that you
think
is like revolutionary knowledge well I
used to think that dementia was an old
person's disease right I I like many
people didn't didn't care about it
Alzheimer's disease was something that I
thought was decades into the Future
something only old people get a natural
part of aging
um
you know age-related senility was
something that was considered a par for
the course of just getting older but
what I learned is that Alzheimer's
disease begins in the brain 30 to 40
years if not longer before the first
symptom whoa yeah there are biomarkers
evident on brain scans now with you know
the hyper Advanced scanning technology
that we now have access to that have
shown signs related to Alzheimer's
disease evident in the brains of 20 year
olds so whoa yeah
so I mean this is something that might
be a lifelong Cascade by the time you uh
is this something I could get checked
for right now
well there are genetic risk factors for
developing Alzheimer's disease
um so the most well-defined of them is
the apoe4 allele which is a variant of
the apoe gene that you inherit one copy
from your mom one copy from your dad but
your thesis if I have it right is
basically okay you may have the allele
the gene but that doesn't mean that it's
inevitable 100 what could I do to my
brain to see if I have any of the
precursors of Alzheimer's well one of
the top things that you can do is make
sure that you are insulin sensitive
because peripheral insulin resistance
which is insulin resistance is the
Hallmark of type 2 diabetes pre-diabetes
it can
precede actually the um the appearance
of chronically elevated blood sugar and
so it's been shown that that is actually
very closely related to your brain's
ability to create energy so this is
actually one of the defining features of
Alzheimer's disease and it might be the
one of the earliest uh things to go awry
in the brain metabolic dysfunction in
the brain and it seems to be very
closely tied to the body's metabolism so
I would go to the doctor and have them
run what test your fasting blood sugar
and your fasting glucose very important
and with those two biomarkers that any
physician can check they can determine
your level of insulin sensitivity okay
one thing you've talked a lot about in
the book and in your talks and I love
this is so I hear Alzheimer's I think I
know all about this amyloid plaques man
that's the problem
I just recently had my cholesterol taken
I like to think I am healthy and my
doctor literally wanted to put me on a
Statin yeah and I was like whoa whoa
whoa
um I know enough to be dangerous when it
comes to cholesterol walk us through the
the
the relationship that you've talked
about that exists between potentially
what amyloid plaques are and potentially
what cholesterol really is yeah that's
really interesting so Alzheimer's
disease was first named in 1906 by a
German physician named Alois Alzheimer
but
ninety percent of what we know about the
disease has been discovered only in the
past 15 years
the only way up until very recently that
it could be diagnosed with black and
white certainty was on death they would
open up the brain of a cadaver and they
would examine the brain they would
notice a dramatic brain shrinkage
and they would notice
Hallmark plaques and tangles in the
brains of these patients
the plaques were an aggregation of
misfolded proteins the protein is called
amyloid beta and so the amyloid
hypothesis that these plaques build up
in the brain of a person with
Alzheimer's disease has been The Guiding
um
path what it now turns out thanks to you
know Advanced scanning technology
that amyloid might actually be there at
the scene of the crime
but in fact at least initially an
innocent bystander
um
because you know if we now have scanning
technology that allows us to see things
that are happening in the brain well
before the presentation of symptoms
um that might actually be more initial
factors in the Cascade that will
ultimately create Alzheimer's disease
it's LED researchers and scientists to
take a step back and ask what is causing
our brains to become landfills for this
amyloid plaque
and so as I mentioned earlier one of the
burgeoning theories that now seems to be
displacing at least from my perspective
this amyloid hypothesis because you know
drug trials that have sought to cure the
disease have a 99 percent
99.6 fail rate yeah
so the question is what starts first you
know is there is there something that we
can measure in the body or brain that
begins before this buildup of amyloid
plaque that we can intervene and say
um you know by taking these steps you
might prevent this disease from
happening well one of the if not the
earliest measurable thing to happen in
the brain is a reduced ability by the
brain to create ATP out of glucose
so the brain has a few uh fuel
substrates that it can use to create ATP
which is the energetic currency of the
cell
and energy for the brain is really
important in fact 25 of your metabolic
rate is used to satiate the energy
requirements of the brain so 20 you know
every one out of every four breaths that
you take
a fourth of all the calories you eat is
going for your is being used by your
brain to create energy so any sort of
outage in the brain in terms of its its
ability to create energy is going to
create problems
just as a as an anecdote you know a
newborn uh human their brains require 90
of their base metabolic rate whoa yeah
so that a newborn human baby
90 of its oxygen all the calories that
it's that it's using is going to help
its brain develop because actually human
babies are born half-baked we continue
our develop actually in the real world
this is one of the reasons why humans
are so smart and we've been able to
build what we've been able to build
because we complete our cognitive
development in the presence of
of you know other other people
it's called the fourth trimester right
that's one of the reasons why a baby a
newborn human baby is so fat because the
fat that a newborn baby comes packaged
with is actually an energy reservoir for
the developing brain I've heard you call
it a Mophie it's your brain I love that
it's a Mophie for the brain it's been
shown that the brain's ability to use
glucose is diminished by about 50
percent in the brains of patients with
Alzheimer's disease so there's this this
really Stark metabolic uh problem that's
occurring in the brain
and thanks to functional MRI scans
and pet scans we've been able to see
that
um
there's a a deficit an energetic deficit
in the brain that's evident from very
early in life
um and it's related to the this uh Gene
that seems to put people at higher risk
for the the disease in
the Western sort of uh environment food
environment so you see that deficit in
people that have that allele yeah not
necessarily across the board there's
about a 10 percent uh reduction in the
brain's ability to generate ATP out of
glucose from very early on and you've
interviewed the woman that coined the
phrase Diabetes Type 3 which is what
Alzheimer's is often referred to as I
want to walk through this process
because oftentimes people talk about it
at a really high level and and I want to
drill down so
um why is it called we'll start with why
is it called
Diabetes Type 3. well if you have type 2
diabetes which 50 of the US population
is now either diabetic or pre-diabetic
your cells have an inability to respond
to insulin which is the hormone that
allows glucose entry into those cells
where the cell uses fuel to be used as
fuel yeah so basically you have despite
an abundance of fuel in circulation
because blood sugar you know is
chronically high in a person with type 2
diabetes your cells essentially starve
because they have an inability to
respond to insulin and therefore glucose
has a much more difficult time getting
into the cell where it can be used to
create ATP which again is the energetic
currency of cells
so in the brain a researcher out of
Brown University who have interviewed
Suzanne de la Monte has coined the term
type 3 diabetes to describe Alzheimer's
disease because there's a similar
inability of the brain to create energy
even though and oftentimes this is the
case there is an abundance of fuel in
the body
you know and people
that are overweight you know people that
are carrying fat around their
midsections your average pound of fat
has about 3 000 backup calories of the
brain will happily use for fuel but the
brain is unable to because most people
on the western you know diet plan are
eating about 300 grams of carbohydrates
per day carbohydrates cause insulin to
become chronically elevated and Insulin
acts like a one-way valve on your fat
cells so fat is we you know we're really
good at storing fat
but in an overweight person in the
modern food environment that the ability
of fat to be burned is basically blocked
sugar is one of those things that Like
Oxygen you know oxygen oxidizes things
it ages you you slice an apple leave it
you know there on the counter you'll
notice it starts to turn brown the same
way that we need oxygen it also is
what's killing us and the same thing
goes for sugar
we need a certain amount of sugar I mean
the brain still has about a 40 percent
uh energy requirement for glucose but
sugar is also very damaging it's
glycotoxic you know I mean it damages
your proteins this is one of the reasons
why type 2 diabetes is so damaging
because at that point your blood sugar
has become chronically elevated
glycating all of the proteins that make
you you and we tend to think about
protein as a nutrient in terms of its
ability to help us grow bigger muscles
but we are made of protein actually the
protein that that Aggregates and forms
the plaques that characterize
Alzheimer's disease that's another
protein that can become glycated and
when this happens when it when it gets
bound to sugar in the molecular sense it
becomes less easily able to be flushed
away which is something that our brains
actually do when we sleep our brains
actually clean themselves of these of
these proteins that can aggregate over
the course of the day so one of our best
performing episodes of Health Theory
ever was on sleep which I was totally
surprised by I did not think people
really cared that much about sleep nor
did I honestly know how detailed and
important sleep is why is it that you
think sleep is important it's so
important I mean there's a newly
discovered system in our brains called
the glymphatic system which when we're
sleeping actually swooshes cerebrospinal
fluid all throughout essentially
cleansing it of these proteins that
aggregate over the course of the day
they've shown that on one night of bad
sleep there's an increased level of
amyloid measurable in csfs cerebrospinal
fluid but then also
you know I think dietary change for most
people is one of the most difficult
things to do
and it's particularly difficult when we
have our hormones working against us so
sleep I think is so profoundly important
because it acts like a master regulator
of our hormones
um it helps to
you know make sure that uh
we don't need to use our willpower very
often because you know willpower is sort
of like this muscle that we need to use
in order to fight off cravings and
things like that but with good sleep our
Cravings diminish I mean they've shown
that even on one night of poor sleep
you
consume an excess of calories the
following day anywhere between three and
five hundred calories I've actually
noticed it's a little off topic but I
once one of the
um major breakups I had in my life I I
noticed that I would feel way more
sensitive to it when I was under slept
you know you become less able to
contextualize emotions when when you're
under slept on just one night of bad
sleep a metabolically healthy person
will be essentially pre-diabetic the
next day
temporarily well yeah you become more
insulin resistant
um
so
yeah sleep sleep I think is one of those
things that today we romanticize being
busy but it's sort of like the one thing
that lifts all the boats in your Harbor
you know and yet we tend to undervalue
it
um you talked on your Instagram uh about
do you want to live for a really long
time or extend your life forget exactly
how you worded it which got my attention
and then you said prioritize
de-stressing yeah is that tied to sleep
like what what do you mean by that
while stress is an indiscriminate killer
and today you know so many of us
are losing sleep due to stress it's one
of the reasons why one in six adults now
is on some kind of psychiatric drug one
in six yeah yeah is on or has used
um well we're definitely self-medicating
and uh and it's not good I mean chronic
stress is a major major problem wow yeah
give me some tactics how do how does one
de-stress
you know I think meditation is really
important
um you know I'm one of those people that
uh I was trained to meditate
um I think this is really important I
think you know being being taught how to
meditate is as important as being taught
how to do yoga you know we don't come
out of the womb knowing how to do a
downward dog and to hit you know any of
the number of yoga poses that we're
taught to do with a good yoga teacher
um having a good meditation teacher is
very
um I think is critical to knowing how to
de-stress I also think
um
you know knowing knowing what chronic
stress is and knowing what it isn't uh
is really important you know so in my
book I differentiate between chronic
stress and acute stress which acute
stress is very beneficial it's you know
what we do in the gym we stress our
bodies chronic psychological stress is
really toxic it's working under a boss
that you hate it's being stuck in a
relationship that's gone sour by
de-stressing and by
um you know doing physical exercise and
things like that you actually increase
your resilience to stress cortisol sort
of gets a bad rap because it's related
to stress but it's actually a really
important hormone it's about his chief
waking hormone so for about 45 minutes
after you wake up cortisol is the
highest that it's really meant to be
throughout the day it's part of the
body's natural circadian hormonal ebb
and flow and in that in that window
for about 45 minutes after you wake up
that's a great fat burning window you've
got that cortisol Spike which is really
working to liberate stored fats stored
sugars
um for use by your body as fuel it's
immense is a way of you know allowing
fuels to become accessible so that you
can use them and Carpe Diem right Seize
the Day within that window it's
particularly dangerous to consume
breakfast in its most standard American
form which is usually rapidly digesting
carbohydrates from oatmeal granola bars
things like that because that causes a
spike in insulin but going back to
stress this is why consuming carbs in
the context of chronic stress is so bad
because you've got cortisol chronically
elevated due to chronic stress and then
we're continuing to keep our insulin
elevated with the carbohydrates that
we're consuming so this not only helps
redistribute our weight from muscle to
fat
but also our our visceral fat which is
the most inflammatory kind of fat that
wraps around our internal organs
actually has about four times the
cortisol receptors whoa on it so this is
actually why when you look at people
that are chronically stressed out they
their bodies take on a very uh
particular shape it's totally different
from run-of-the-mill obesity where
people are just eating lots and lots of
calories and not necessarily chronically
stressed out somebody who's chronically
stressed and eating lots of carbs in
particular
they usually have skinny arms and skinny
legs but a bulging midsection because
their visceral fat is just soaking up
all the excess carbs that they're eating
because of the presence of chronically
elevated cortisol that's so weird no
idea I always thought that was just like
oh some people that's how they put on
fat I like to think of stresses ah it's
sort of invisible and it doesn't really
have any lingering effects but when you
see that it can play out into an actual
body type yeah that's when it gets
really crazy yeah now one type of stress
you've talked about that is really
useful to go a little bit deeper thermal
stress I've never heard of that before
what is it exactly and how do we
leverage it
so you know we've we are our bodies were
you know we're the ultimate performance
machines right we all evolved chasing
our food
um and and really being honed to perform
physical bouts of uh exercise but
thermal exercises another form of
exercise that
we also had for the vast majority of our
Evolution and I think chronic climate
control
you know something that we've developed
you know with air conditioning and heat
and things like that really has been to
the detriment in many ways of our of our
health
um
so we can look at research that was
performed recently out of Finland
that I think is very compelling they
found that people who used saunas four
to seven times per week had a dramatic
risk reduction for Alzheimer's disease
about 65 percent risk reduction for
people that use sauna four to seven
times per week
really I mean there's no drug on the
market that'll cut your risk of
developing Alzheimer's Disease by 65
percent Finland is the sauna capital of
the world so in Finland there's on
average one sauna per household in
Finland it's like taking a shower in
Finland it's so embedded into the
culture in fact there's a great
documentary called steam of Life which
documents all of the weird ways in which
people in Finland will you know create
like phone booths abandon phone booths
into saunas things like that it's very
strange yeah so they found that in this
population that saunas really seemed to
play a protective role in terms of of
vascular function
um it also was related to a
dramatic risk reduction for high blood
pressure
but then also for for dementia seems to
really uh help promote what's called
vascular compliance and reduce high
blood pressure so what coincides with
Alzheimer's disease is also vascular
dysfunction
um
of all of the micro capillaries that
provide you know blood fuel nutrients to
the brain and so anything that's good
for the heart is going to be good for
the brain and sauna seem to really be
good for the heart as well what about
like cold showers and stuff yeah those
are all great
um
you know they are really good in terms
of really dialing mental acuity I mean
you can feel it instantly take a cold
shower there was a really great study
performed where people with type 2
diabetes
um were told to uh basically turn the
air conditioning down on low to about I
believe it was 60 or 66 degrees
Fahrenheit for six hours a day so I mean
that's not freezing it's cold but it's
not freezing and there was about a 25
percent increase in their insulin
sensitivity
not changing their diet at all or doing
any additional physical exercise just
exposing themselves to colder
temperatures
they showed a dramatic increase in their
metabolic health
again insulin resistance is the Hallmark
of type 2 diabetes I'm so surprised by
that yeah cold stress heat stress all
very beneficial
so I try to compel people to get out of
their comfort zones in in the thermal
sense you know it's really good for
creativity getting out of your comfort
zone but it seems to be the case as well
in terms of temperature that is really
interesting and I hate you for it
because I hate being cold so I'm like
what do I begin to tell you yeah so do I
actually but um but you know I think
it's one of those things that
um
seems to be really beneficial you know I
uh
I go to my mom's house occasionally and
the heat is always blasting it's like
always uh
like super warm in that apartment not
like sauna level temperature but just
always you know my mom doesn't like to
be cold she doesn't like to be hot she
likes to live only within that narrow
range of her Comfort glad you brought
your mom back up I wanted to talk a
little bit more about something you said
that I thought was so beautiful
so I grew up in a morbidly obese family
and I really struggle with I know what
they need to do but that's very
stressful for them emotionally and I
don't want to stress that relationship
out and you said something similar about
your mom and you said I don't ever want
her food choice to damage the
relationship that I have with her yeah
how do you deal with that what advice do
you have for caregivers loved ones of
somebody that's going through dementia
it sounds cliche to say you can lead a
horse to water but you can't make a
drink so I think at a certain point
um
you've got you should you should teach
you know I think that's
one of our missions here on Earth as
empathetic and compassionate beings is
to
lead you know lead your neighbor lead
your loved one to a greater vision of
life you know that's what you're doing
with the show I think
you can't do it with Force you can't do
it with aggression you've gotta you've
got to be I think a bit more gentle and
when it comes to loved ones and
especially people that are suffering
with chronic diseases and that you know
you don't know what they're going
through psychologically I think it's
really important to um
to provide the information but then to
to step back and detach at a certain
point at a certain point with my mom
I would get very emotionally wound up in
what my mom was eating and I would
become upset if I went to her house and
I saw that she had an open bag of chips
or you know
cookies or whatever you know whatever
and
um I didn't want that to interfere with
the time that I was spending with my mom
you know I would never want to do that
and I I value so much the time that I
spend with my mom and
um I know that I'm really neurotic when
it comes to nutrition and health but I
don't you know I don't judge other
people
in your book you do a great job of not
spending a lot of time demonizing
anything but instead really being quite
prescriptive about okay if you want to
upgrade yourself which is like the big
tag in your website which I absolutely
love so if somebody wants to upgrade
themselves knowing that every word
that's about to come out of your mouth
comes with compassion and knowing that
there's a lot of individual variability
and you get all of that but like in a
nutshell for somebody that wants to
upgrade themselves what should they eat
and not eat yeah
so you know opt for foods that are
nutrient dense
um one of the easiest things that I
recommend that people can do every
single day is to consume what I call a
large fatty salad
um
I think it's one of the best ways to
really check off so many of your
nutritional boxes to get an abundance of
dietary fiber that the microbes that
live in your large intestine love to
consume and when I say fatty I don't
mean you know throwing on tortilla
strips and cheese and ranch dressing I
mean
you know taking a bowl of dark leafy
greens
kale spinach which are you know top
sources of magnesium which 50 of people
do not consume adequate amounts of
folate
um arugula arugula is a top source of
nitrates dietary nitrate really
important in terms of increasing blood
flow to the brain one single high
nitrate meal might actually improve
cognitive function it's that powerful
um dousing those dark leafy greens with
extra virgin olive oil which research
has shown out of Barcelona Spain the
pretty Med study you can consume about a
liter a week
to better cognitive function cognitive
Health cardiovascular health and it
might even help you lose weight because
it's so anti-inflammatory actually
there's a compound in extra virgin olive
oil that is as anti-inflammatory as
low-dose Advil but without any of the
potential for negative side effects
and importantly
you need to have fat in that salad
because fat allows many of the most
important nutrients in the salad to
become bioavailable so I talk a lot
about in this book which I think is
bringing you know especially
um you know there's a lot I think
actually that there's a lot of new
information that I bring to the
conversation but I talk particularly
about
carotenoids and how research has shown
out of University of Georgia that by
eating uh lutein and zeaxanthin by by
supplementing with these carotenoids you
can actually boost visual processing
speed by 20 even if you're young and
healthy so I mean these are young and
healthy people that are already
considered to be at the peak of their
cognitive prowess visual processing
speed is so important I mean think about
in terms of responding to visual stimuli
you know driving athletic performance
Sports Performance things like video
games video games yeah yeah absolutely
so
dark leafy greens are abundant in these
two carotenoids and they're only
absorbed through the digestive tract
when in the presence of fat you don't
absorb any of them unless you're
consuming them with fat so like that fat
free dressing throw that in the trash
extra virgin olive oil you know is super
key eating a large fatty salad
I think it's just really key people tend
to think about salads in terms of like
weight loss I want to lose weight I'm
going to eat more salad but really in
terms of the brain
it's powerful you also get the benefit
of I mentioned dietary fiber we now know
that you have microbes that live in your
large intestine that when you consume uh
fermentable soluble Prebiotic fiber
which is found in abundance in that in
that bowl of greens the microbes churn
out a compound called butyrate which is
profoundly anti-inflammatory it is
really you know beneficial in terms of
the gut ecosystem it's been shown to
boost levels of uh
growth factors in the brain which
promote neuroplasticity which is your
brain's ability to change over time very
important stuff
in terms of Lifestyle you know I advise
as I mentioned not eating for an hour or
two after you wake up people today are
really obsessed with intermittent
fasting which I think is you know really
great at the very least it it I think
has awakened people to the necessity to
bring back balance in terms of being fed
and being fasted but I don't get hung up
over the hours I think it's just really
important to honor the body's natural
circadian inclinations you really want
to like after that one two or three hour
window eat your food and then stop
eating for two to three hours before bed
again you know we talked about the
glymphatic system it's a newly
discovered system
but you know it's been theorized that
eating soon before bed might interfere
with that
um that that cleanup process
and then you know I try to
eat a uh a low carb diet I try to avoid
um dense sources of carbohydrate with
the exception of occasionally eating
them in the post-workout window
um
if you're going to eat carbs throughout
the day you really want to concentrate
them into one meal
um it seems that when you consume your
carbs concentrated into one meal less
insulin is required to clear those carbs
from circulation that glucose from
circulation as opposed to if you were to
spread them out over the course of the
day which makes that that old advice to
eat six small meals throughout the day
particularly bad because insulin seems
to be able to Compound on itself
so rather than eating you know
uh 30 grams of carbs at lunch 30 grams
of carbs at dinner 30 grams of carb set
breakfast concentrate them into one meal
and there's less of an you know insulin
AUC so less less insulin being
stimulated to clear that glucose which
is important because as we talked about
earlier glucose is very damaging when
it's uh in the blood it glycates those
proteins that is really interesting
everything you've said is really
interesting I mean yeah I a major nerd
for this kind of stuff whether or not
you're concerned about your risk for
disease in the long term you know the
all these things actually help you feel
great in the here and now you know we
talked about visual processing speed
just in terms of your overall energy
levels feeling less beholden to your
hormones into your you know food
cravings I think is really important
um
and these are all ways of really kind of
I think helping stack the odds in our
favor you know
um
because when it comes to nutrition what
I've found is that the mainstream
medical system has very little to offer
and nutrition really is so important
when it comes to
preventing you know all of the diseases
that I think we're seeing Skyrocket
today I mean 60 according to the World
Health Organization
chronic diseases now account for 60 of
deaths worldwide
the truth is hitting your career goals
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description alright my friend back to
today's episode what's the best place
for people to find you online
uh definitely
um Instagram I'm pretty active on
Instagram
um people can go to my website and join
my newsletter which um
you know I uh put a lot of time into
um
and uh yeah I mean genius Foods really
is I think I've been able to synthesize
you know much of if not all of what I've
learned into the book amazing
if people are only going to make one
single change in their life to have the
biggest impact what change should they
make
man that's a good question
[Music]
um
you know we've already talked about
nutrition so uh I'm gonna throw you a
curveball and I'm gonna say I think that
people really should uh to one another
you know I think that's so important
teach one another to help you know
um be a shoulder for
for others especially that are less
fortunate
um to to give back
whether it's charity whether it's just
to be more diligent and and deliberate
about your social media use by posting
things that are less inflammatory more
helpful when I see suffering I'm
profoundly affected by it and there's a
lot of suffering going on in the world
both in terms of health
um food scarcity things like that so
just you know do your do your part I
think everybody should try it because if
you're anything like me and for decades
you're eating damaged fats and those
damaged fats are causing inflammation so
I have a high inflammation response
strike two in the my desire to live
forever High inflammation response so I
have uh there's a name for it is
something graphia on the skin so you can
write in my skin not as much now but
when I was younger you could take your
fingernail and write your name and it
would welt up on my skin so I have like
a very high inflammation response which
explains the wrists but I was eating
damaged fats I had no concept that like
trans fat was a thing all
you ready for you want to hurt a little
do you hear how I grew up I do actually
so thank you uh so my mom didn't want me
she wanted me so I argued about food I
had like real food trauma as a kid and I
was a super picky eater
and so finally at 13 my mom was just
tired of arguing with me about it so she
said fine you can make your own food so
I wanted to make chicken nuggets because
of course we had a deep fat fryer in the
house as you do in Tacoma and uh she
said no way you can't have chicken
nuggets they're not good for you but you
can't have turkey nuggets and french
fries so I ate deep fried turkey nuggets
and french fries almost every night for
five years wow from the time I was 13
until I graduated high school and
that of course was exactly why I was
inflamed and then I go to college and
don't know any better so I keep eating
bad food like when I first went low carb
I would go to Panda Express I would get
orange chicken but no rice because I had
no concept that Sugar could hide in a
sauce that didn't make sense to me so I
had just
I had years of in taking things in
places that I didn't realize I was in
taking them so getting your fat Source
right not taking in damaged fats getting
healthy fats I think for a lot of people
that struggle with inflammation it is
admittedly a game of not eating a lot of
things but then because I went for two
years literally
dude this is so close to Accurate that
I'll just make this statement all I ate
was steamed broccoli and boiled chicken
breast so I'm not the guy that's like
I'm eating chicken and broccoli I don't
understand the problem and then you
watch me eat it and I've got orange
sauce on it and you know I'm putting
like all these different sauces and
dressings and it was boiled chicken
breasts and steamed broccoli and I got
shredded shredded so I've seen the
photos on your Instagram
it worked from that perspective but from
a joint inflammation perspective it was
a nightmare so for sure it was the
addition of fat because I had already
removed all of the pro-inflammatory
stuff so this was a deficiency in either
just the fat or whatever all the other
things are the red meat contains and
maybe that's it maybe it maybe it's not
the fat but
well there's no there's no doubt that
certain fats are good for you so I guess
I should clarify I'm not I'm not against
high fat at all because I am very
interested in a ketogenic diet and in
fact I think I advocate for seasonal
ketosis
um or or at the very least intermittent
ketosis whatever that means to you I
think it's important to you know on a
maybe daily monthly seasonal basis to uh
you know allow your brain access to
ketones which are you know a quote
unquote super fuel that can supply 60 of
your brain's energy which
um you know is now being studied for
it's been used for over a century for
you know to treat hard to treat epilepsy
and now it's being studied for
its efficacy in improving memory and
Alzheimer's disease patients and and
things like that uh but
I'm not a pro I'm not very big on the on
lots of added oil in the diet which I
think you know once people started
becoming becoming interested in high fat
diets you know now suddenly the
pendulums Swang in the other direction
where people were is that that you were
all about olive oil I am so to a point I
think it's important to integrate olive
oil into your diet I'll use you know a
liter a week I use it fairly liberally
but when it comes to like throwing
coconut oil in my smoothie or butter in
my coffee I do occasionally enjoy butter
in my coffee I like the taste but um but
you know I think it's important to
remember and we've been saying this in
the fitness Community as I'm sure you
know for for years don't drink your
calories you don't want to do the same
you want to basically adhere the same
adhere to the same advice when it comes
to oil too because oil is not a very
nutrient-dense food it's very calorie
dense it's not nutrient dense but I
don't make any restrictions on the fats
naturally contained in Whole Foods so
nuts seeds grass-fed beef dark meat
chicken things like that that's do you
eat
uh well I'm actually I mean people will
debate about phytic acid and things like
that but I'm what do you eat well I like
almonds almonds are a great source of
magnesium and vitamin E I like them raw
okay I'm not too concerned with the with
the you know phytate in Almond skins or
you know anything like that I'll try to
soak them you know when I have the
opportunity but often you soak them if
you soak them they're gross they become
gross what do you do with them do you
dry them
because like my wife when she went
through the whole microbiome disaster
the doctor was like Hey try soaking the
almonds and it was [ __ ] gross she was
like I'd rather they could not eat them
they can get slimy the last time I did
it which was a few weeks ago I soaked
them and then I tossed them in olive oil
and then a little bit of sea salt and I
roast and I roasted it they were still
wet
they actually came out really good
um if you if you just soak them they can
become I think a bit slimy but you soak
them and then get rid of the Slime by
just putting olive oil on them I don't
understand I keep waiting for some
drying process yeah no drying have you
ever had to remember sprouted nuts maybe
that's what I think maybe that's what I
did well I was sprouted and that's I'm
almost certain go through a drying
process at least when you eat them
they're dry so I soak them in a jar and
then you pour out the liquid and then
they they dry during the last for how
long
I think I did it for three days okay
maybe we just did it wrong but they were
gnarly now sprouted nuts which I think
they sprout by soaking uh but it's by
the time they are packaged they're dry
and delicious and this is one of those
where I would not have believed so if
you take
pecans that have been just they do every
bad thing to them you can imagine they
put all the wonderful delicious and
deadly oils on it which tastes [ __ ]
awesome I actually like the sprouted
pecans better so it's one of the few
times where the thing that I like better
is actually better for me uh but I get
down with sprouted nuts so what else
you've got almonds that you soak uh yeah
although I'll often if I'm if I'm
traveling and I buy you know I'll
occasionally buy a bag of raw almonds so
I'll eat them like that uh I'll use
slivered almonds as a condiment
sometimes I'll throw them into a salad
but I get a lot of fat from I ate a lot
of red meat I ate a lot of fatty fish
ate a lot of dark meat chicken so wait a
second I want to go back to the nuts you
only eat almonds So when you say nuts
macadamia nuts are great because they're
very high in monounsaturated fat uh I've
been eating a lot of Brazil nuts lately
for the selenium I can't deal with those
I love those actually I used to not what
does selenium help with selenium is an
important antioxidant in the brain
it's crucially important and it's also
crucially important for thyroid health
so it actually helps can you eat too
many Brazil nuts yeah I heard that
somewhere yeah so how many are you
eating a day uh three to four you want
to be kind of conscious of of your you
know selenium intake it's similar to
vitamin A you don't want to like over
consume retinol which is you know the
active form of vitamin A super weird
vitamin A Story is it true that polar
bear liver yeah has some like obscene
amount it'll kill you vitamin A okay
that's what I heard like there was some
crazy story about these guys trapped in
a cabin in like Antarctica do you hear
about this polar bears are evil man wow
straight evil have you they're like the
fact that they're on Coca-Cola as like
the sweet cuddly thing those
[ __ ] are wildly intelligent and
they will [ __ ] you up doesn't surprise
me and so there's this whole story about
these guys trapped in the polar bears
would trick them and they oh god what
they do they would have like one
standing out front and then the other
one would actually attack through the
back door I don't remember the story
well but the punchline is they finally
kill these things they're so like raged
out about how they had been picking them
off one by one they eat the first and
they but then one of them like dies or
something from eating the liver because
there was toxicity of vitamin vitamin A
toxicity yeah it's uh it's super
concentrated in bare liver
um that's so weird That's So Random so
random but well I mean it's not that
unusual because actually that's one of
the reasons why liver from beef or
chicken I know other animals have that
same level of toxicity well it uh I
don't know I don't know exactly what my
hypothesis would be that bears are going
to store a lot more stuff in the liver
which is a storage organ because they
hibernate
so maybe they're storing vitamin A and
all I mean you store vitamin B12 in your
liver you store all kinds of things it's
a it's a storage organ for you know
choline for different nutrients I just
read something and it may have been in
your book I just came across it but
forgive me if it wasn't in your book
talking about
bears and they have some specific
reaction because of their need to
hibernate they don't have the muscle
wasting they store something in their
fat no it wasn't a new bug no I'm not
gonna be able to help me I don't
remember the exact fact so it's pretty
interesting about something that Bears
um oh God this is a waste because I
can't finish this off but it was
something the mechanism by which Bears
spare their muscle there was something
for us to interest in terms of amino
acids I mean growth hormone is pretty
probably pretty conserved throughout the
animal kingdom or at least among mammals
and growth hormone one of the things
that that helps to do is to preserve
lean mass during a fasted State it's one
of the reasons why growth hormone
becomes pretty sharply elevated when
fasting
um fasting is interesting you go pretty
deep on that in the book yeah he went
into that if I remember right in the
timing section in the timing section
yeah because I have a section where I
talk about our relationship with time
and light but also food so light is the
primary time Setter that our brains use
to you know to to get a sense of what
time of day it is which is important for
the you know operation of pretty much
every system in the body you talk about
there being ancillary clocks which I
thought was really interesting so it's
not just the light it's it's also food
yeah it's also food food is a Time
Setter because we have peripheral clocks
um the master clock in the brain is
called the suprachiasmatic nucleus and
it's housed in the hypothalamus which is
a very primordial uh region of the brain
and within that structure which controls
everything from Hunger to our drive for
sex it's at the base of the brain
essentially which is where you'll find
things that govern you know aspects of
our behavior that are important for
survival is it in is it in the
hypothalamus yeah I see wrapped inside
of it yeah it's a little chocolate chip
sized uh region in that area and it
interfaces directly with our eyes
with proteins interesting in our eyes
called melanopsin proteins which are
light sensing but they're not involved
in vision
and that's pretty much our body's Master
uh clock setting apparatus so when we
perceive light at an intensity of about
a thousand Lux or higher that sets off
the 24-hour Rhythm that guides
essentially you know the Run of show for
uh you know every system in the body
um
I had the the privilege of interviewing
uh Dr Sachin Panda who's a luminary in
this field over at the Salk Institute
for biological aging and he was part of
the team that um that discovered the
melanopsin protein it's very interesting
because uh there's only a few of the you
know of of these proteins in the eye in
the retina and they are really there to
kind of interface with that with that
Master Clock system and I think that's
just another area of our biology where
uh Modern Life really you know seem
tends to do a disservice to us thrusting
us all into a Perpetual state of jet lag
that's an interesting way to say it what
time do you eat your last meal I try to
eat my last meal about two to three
hours before bed I think you're making a
mistake why what are you what's your so
I have a hypothesis you this is one of
those things that are you saying I
should be eating weight earlier oh yes
yeah so I eat my last meal at 2 p.m I'm
done chewing at 2 p.m so this all
started I could
um eat and go to bed literally within
seconds and have no digestive problems
whatsoever my wife used to say I really
think I need time between my last meal
and when I go to bed and I was like that
doesn't make any sense and she was like
no I really feel like that sometimes
because she four years ago just got
debilitated with digestive problems and
it was crazy it was emergency rooms it
was like what the [ __ ] is happening it
was malnutrition are you gonna die like
I was really scared so we start looking
at everything aspect and she has this
gas like oh I think that and people
aren't talking about this yet at least
not like the way that it's being talked
about now where you you can't avoid
hearing about this
um you hadn't written your [ __ ] book
yet so let's start with that thank you
for letting her suffer no I'm kidding
um so she starts talking about like hey
I think timing really matters it didn't
make sense to me and she starts doing it
and making me stay up for three hours
because I'm not gonna go to bed and
leave her hanging so like if we're on
vacation or something she would say Hey
you know is there any way like if
because she likes to eat actually quite
late is there any way that we can stay
up like if we did nine we stay up till
midnight yeah of course baby we'll do it
and she was like I really think it's
helping and so it just naturally put me
on that same rhythm
and I thought huh that's interesting
like now even when I go like hardcore I
don't get an upset stomach so like at
Christmas time I go off the rails I'm
having a lot of ice cream all that and I
wasn't sure is it the intermittent
fasting because if I'm eating bad and I
make sure that I fast for at least 16
hours I'm golden I can get away with
murder and so I thought well is it the
the length of fast or is it the number
of hours because I find it much easier
just if I'm going to clock because I
when I'm really in it I try to do
20-hour fast daily and that I feel I can
stay lean easily it gets a little hard
the last hour or two admittedly is like
I have to like focus and alter My
Lifestyle so I'm not trying to do
something really cognitively demanding
for the last two hours but like I find
that's a that's a good Rhythm for me 19
to 20 hours and so I started wondering
though like I definitely feel better I
can get away with more
um but is it the length of fast is it
the number of hours because if I'm gonna
go that long I find it easier to eat my
last meal late rather than trying to
wake up and go six hours or seven hours
without eating and because I wake up so
early like I'm usually awake between
three and four a.m so with no alarm it's
just when I wake up I go to bed at nine
I wake up
um and so this Christmas when I went off
the rails again but this time I said
okay I'm not going to worry so much
about length of fast but I'm really
going to be hyper conscious about
clocking five hours before I go to bed
dude Cash Money felt amazing yeah so I
really want my wife like if I feel a
benefit and I'm somebody that's got a
pretty robust digestion I want my wife
to try five hours I actually think most
people think they're being just a rock
star at three
I have a gut instinct that you're
actually better like four and five hours
before bed well I think you're probably
right I think that the ideal time to
stop eating would probably be around 7
P.M I mean it depends on the time is
that ideal is that a sunset thing yeah
yeah because well you know I think we're
diurnal creatures right we're diurnal
we're meant to you know eat and do most
of the things that we're gonna do that
are going to require the greatest energy
expenditure during the day
um and you know we know that as Knight
approaches and the sun begins to set and
melatonin levels start to creep up and
cortisol levels start to drop that uh
daylight Associated activity sort of is
you know becomes less supported in the
body and that includes digestion and
metabolism and that's one of the reasons
why we become less insulin sensitive
sensitive later in the day but also
digestion
um falters to some degree I mean
peristalsis slows which is the transit
of you know uh food components through
the through the GI tract so I think
it's probably you're probably better off
stopping eating by like six to seven pm
and in fact the few but the the growing
body of research in humans is being done
with early time restricted feeding also
seems to back this up that when we eat
you know earlier dinners it seems to be
the to the benefit of our metabolic
Health independent of weight loss now
for somebody like you who's eating only
within a four hour window it's almost
impossible I think within those four
hours to over consume calories so I mean
you're my friend come over I'll show you
how really do you not know about
slippery Foods homie I'm interested well
what are you eating whole mental
processes like the the reality is I in
my four hour window I don't overeat and
because if I overeat then I I can still
put on fat for sure in a four hour
window no problem I could I could if I
wasn't cognizant of
um what I'm eating I could easily clock
and I'm talking every single day of my
life I could easily clock
in that four hour window four thousand
five thousand calories that'd be pretty
easy I'd have to have ice cream there's
no question so this was uh the term
slippery Foods comes from the um gastric
bypass Community or lap band Community
where they have a smaller amount of
space so they get tricky like the ones
who sort of give up on staying on the
straight narrow
um realize that if you eat things like
ice cream that's like really sort of
liquidy that you can pack a lot of
calories well that makes sense because
ice cream is an ultra processed food
it's an ultra processed foods are
defined in part because of the fact that
they are so calorie dense and it's one
of the reasons why we see the Obesity
epidemic that we're now seeing because
these Foods you know essentially
short-circuit our brain satiety
checkpoints so if you're trying if
you're trying to eat for example the
genius Foods you know super nutrient
dense foods within that four hour window
which we know are the foods that are
going to be the best for you
um you know which unfortunately doesn't
include ice cream in that and under that
umbrella
I think it's probably going to be pretty
difficult to over consume calories so I
mean that is a good way of of basically
uh
drawing a Line in the Sand and and
maintaining some level of of calorie
control and probably what you're seeing
are some of the benefits of calorie
restriction which we know are numerous
you know you can you it's a great way to
reduce inflammation in smaller organisms
it's one of the few ways of extending
life
um in a rat or a mouse well they've done
that the caloric restriction they've
done across like
dozens of species right like ringworms
and yeast and fruit flies and things
like that yeah it seems to be pretty
you're not going to be able to kind of
prove that in a human I don't think but
yeah calorie restriction you won't be
able to prove the longevity because
people won't comply and because it's
such a good because people live for a
long time but I mean the it seems that
the that you know if humans are anything
like other mammals or smaller organisms
or or you know I mean because it seems
to be a very consistent uh thing in the
literature that that calorie restriction
is you know one of the few ways to
extend the lifespan of a of an organism
um so you're probably getting some of
those benefits what back when I first
started doing and you know science is
continually evolving but when I started
doing the research on on fasting I was
less convinced that the feeding window
really mattered but the more the
research comes out the more research
comes you know comes out I've sort of
refined my thinking a bit on it and I do
think that it is probably wiser to begin
your feeding sort of earlier in the day
um and to stop eating earlier in the day
as well because we're these diurnal
creatures and the day is when our
insulin sensitivity is most primed and
when you know our metabolisms are most
primed to you know burn off ingested
energy store ingested energy and digest
food
um in a way that's that's as efficient
as it's going to be yeah my thing with
that is
this is not you know the thing that you
can turn into a scientific paper but
just going by experience so originally I
was like oh I'll skip breakfast you know
I can stay busy I'll go work out work
out fasted all of that like that'll let
me sort of draw this out but I found
myself naturally wanting to eat pretty
soon after a workout like just the
impulse was there now I can override the
impulse like I said the change or die
mechanism of setting a line in my life
and and being disciplined about it I'm
very good at that but I did find myself
distracted by hunger if I tried to push
you know six eight hours after I woke up
before I had my first meal so I thought
nah like would I actually be better off
front loading my calories and then
seeing how I do because because my
calories were still clocking in I say
1800 or 2 000 calories a day
I would start getting hungry right
around bedtime but I wouldn't have any
trouble falling asleep I wouldn't have
any trouble staying asleep and then when
I woke up my Hunger had reset so I
didn't wake up hungry like I went to bed
hungry so I would essentially have sleep
for dinner so I thought let me try it
and see how I do and it worked awesome
and so that was when I went from like
struggling to make 16 hours to I could
push and I could do 18 pretty easily and
with some effort I could get up to 20.
and so I probably averaged
19.5 hours a day fasting for
90 days or something like that like I I
found that relatively easy 18 I can do
as a no-brainer
um but it's much easier for me to have
my last meal done chewing by two in bed
by nine up by three four first meal
around eight nine
yeah that Rhythm works for me yeah I
think you're also at an advantage in
that scenario because you're going to
bed at nine I go to bed at like midnight
or 12 30. I go to I go to bed a bit
later
um wouldn't the timing sleep guy say
that that's a bit too late
you know it's probably not ideal
um is that your natural Rhythm though
because do you believe in chronotypes is
that a thing for you no I'm not I don't
really uh I'm I'm not familiar with any
potential research there but
um
but all the sleep authorities I think
seem to advocate for eight hours of
sleep you know seven and a half to eight
hours of sleep what do you get if you
don't have that's what I you get that
seven I have eight yeah so even though I
go to bed late I get generally you know
seven and a half to eight hours of sleep
if not more every night I'm a very good
sleeper
um and I Orient my life in a way that
you know my sleep is sacred so my room
is very dark I keep it cool
um how cool do you keep it I keep it
around 65 degrees do you not wake up
cold or do you just blank it up I feel
like I'm not I feel like I'm suffocating
unless I'm breathing in cool air I hear
that yeah but 68 for me is the max I
start going below that and I just wake
up in the middle of the night I can't
sleep because I'm so cold so cold I mean
I use a warm blanket and I sleep with a
uh a pillow on top of my head that's
interesting so I sleep with a blankets
over my head entirely I I have since I
was a little kid people always like
girlfriends and obviously now my wife
look at me like what the [ __ ] are you
doing how do you breathe I love it
sometimes I will put the blanket over my
eyes because I want that cool air in my
mouth yeah but for the most part it's
just under the sheets so it I definitely
blank it up and I love that I'm under
the covers but at South of 68.
that cold seeps in and so do you still
get the benefits of the cool air because
I could do more blankets obviously but
am I getting any benefit at that point
because I'm not actually cool yeah
um
that's an interesting question I don't
think that you're
I think that it's really you know being
cool as you're winding down you know
because your body temperature begins to
to lower uh right before bed
um
so I don't think that you have to
I'm actually I'm not sure I mean I know
a lot of people that are now using these
cooling mattresses or these cooling
covers yeah um and they're reporting you
know anecdotally you know improvements
in their sleep you know for that but uh
yeah I don't think that your body
necessarily has to be the temperature of
the room but I do think generally just
being in a cooler environment there have
also been some really interesting
studies
um and I and I cite a few of them in the
book where uh people that sleep in these
sort of cooler environments overnight
they tend to see a greater proliferation
of brown fat Brown adipose tissue which
is very healthy metabolically active and
in those studies they were not sleeping
without covers they were not sleeping
exposed to the air they were just
sleeping in a cooler room you're about
that chick this way I'm the bearing
straight I did not I really need to look
her up because I brought the story up
several times I can never remember her
name but to do that she had to
transition her adipose tissue into Brown
fat and she was living in Alaska if I'm
not mistaken and she she took
exclusively cold showers think about how
cold the water would be in Alaska yeah
and then slept through the winter with
the window open wow and no blankets that
seems like you're just going to get
hypothermia and die but she was able to
swim the bearing straight that's a space
between Alaska and Russia
it's pretty nice crazy that's cold water
I do I do regular cold water immersion
and so I will attest that you do
acclimate it does get easier as you
start walk me through your uh your
strategy what do you do oh man well I'm
a so as I mentioned you know the three
p's of of detoxification so sauna is a
huge aspect we're going to get to that
in a minute because you talked about
that in your book I've I've gone deep on
cold stuff but not the heat so I want to
go full blown on that in a minute but
what's your cold setup uh so I go into I
you know have the the I'm fortunate
enough to be able to go to uh gyms and
spas that have um cold you know cold
pools cold plunges what are they at 55
they're at 50. 48 to 50.
48 is yeah that'll get your attention
yeah and very recently I had the
opportunity to do 42 which was which was
that's gotta hurt like at that point
it's not just cold it's actually painful
I think it's but it's very much a mind
over matter thing because even even I
was able to do four minutes under 42
degree series and I feel like once
you're able to do something to your neck
yeah up to my neck you really want to
make sure that your chin yeah those uh
not watching at home that that wasn't
just neck yeah it was like basically up
to here okay yeah up to the up to the
chin
48 degrees you accumulate Brown fat it's
not everywhere that you find Brown fat
it's around the collar bone it's in the
back of the neck it's along the spine
under the armpits so if you're just
going up to waist depth in this and you
know do in in your in the pond or
whatever it is that you're that you're
using for your cold water immersion I
don't think that you're getting the full
uh range of benefits so yeah so I'll
sink myself you know I'll do four to
five minutes I do it until I basically
can't do it anymore and the level of
mental acuity that I feel afterwards is
just like almost pharmacological in
terms of it's like you know how how
powerful it is it's amazing how long
does it last for you that Acuity uh I
mean it lasts for a while and I would
contrast it to
so if I were to do sauna I feel really
good after Asana but I do feel kind of
lethargic yes you know and that can
persist for through the rest of the
night pretty much that's my next
question so now I want to know your
whole heat routine and well so let's
wrap up the cold so you do the cold it's
immersion it's up to your chin it's as
long as you can take it it's roughly 48
to 50 48 to 50 degrees Yeah and we do
that how often I do that three to four
days a week I don't do it after
um exercise directly after exercise
there seems to be a growing body of
literature that's suggesting that it's
actually sort of counter to the
anabolics to the inflammation yeah you
want a little bit of the inflammation
but I actually do it then before late at
night I'll do it hours later or on days
where I'm not doing like resistance
training
um but I actually have I have like low
back issues and so for me countering
that inflammation yeah how did you get
low back issues from uh from like a just
being stupid and not warming up under
the squat rack a couple years ago squats
yeah I thought you were going to say
deadlift for sure no and this has
persisted it's persisted yeah it's it's
getting it's way better though thanks to
like all these different modalities
eating an anti-inflammatory diet in
general uh you know exercising as much
as I can staying active I mean
ironically staying active which you know
people with back pain are gonna be like
oh you know it's like it's grown into
using but it's the best thing that you
can do the only time my low back ever
hurts is when I stop yeah lifting yeah I
mean you can deadlift heavy and really
[ __ ] yourself up super careful but
um mid-range stuff that I can do 12 reps
of that kind of thing if I'm doing that
consistently I'm fine never have back
pain when I stop then I get trouble yeah
yeah staying active is crucially
important but and you know cold
immersion is a is a great modality for
pain relief it's it's just amazing
um it's good for mental acuity it's good
for I I find that it's it powerfully
improves my mood if I'm anxious or I'm
feeling pressed
um I mean and I'm not the only person to
talk about this like Wim Hof you know
he's talked about the mood boosting
effects of cold immersion but
um but for me I think it's it's super
powerful and the metabolic benefits I
think are among the most interesting and
most important aspects of cold immersion
so whether it's just ambient room
temperature or doing regular cold
immersion they're showing that just
modulating the ambient temperature of
your environment can boost
glucose or you know glucose tolerance
insulin sensitivity in the body can help
you know boost your metabolic rate and
things like that so for anybody
struggling with slow metabolism or
insulin sensitivity issues I think that
this is a really underappreciated
modality that can help potentially boost
your health yeah and and you really go
into it in the book
um this is one of my favorite sections
so now take me into the heat so this is
one of those it's been on my radar but
because it's not and maybe I just
haven't done it because I've never done
a sauna and maybe that's you've never
done a song No never and I have on them
in my house damn um so I'm gonna try it
like after reading the book I was like I
legitimately can't believe
yeah so anyway I need to do it it's
ridiculous so the reason I haven't done
it though is because warm is deeply
comforting to me so cold sucks cold
hurts I don't want to do it therefore I
do do it I don't have any fears around
heat
um so it's like it just seemed too easy
it seemed too easy to be beneficial so
I've just never done the research So
reading your book I was like [ __ ] like
there's actually a lot going on like
I'll say that you sold the heat exposure
even better than you sold the cold
exposure so like the you put the um the
list down of like people that do like
two to four
like a week excuse me versus like the
reduction in Alzheimer's or heart
disease in in in Strokes looking crazy
disease dementia yeah I mean a lot of
This research is coming out of the
University of Eastern Finland which is
an amazing place to have this research
being done because Finland is the sauna
capital of the world and they do dry
sauna right so no steam so actually dry
and wet sauna are different from Steam
rooms a steam room is a steam room and
then you have dry and wet sauna a dry
sauna basically just means that you
can't throw water on the rocks and a wet
sauna is you know what's the difference
in terms of its impact
uh I think it's just a com like a
preference personal property okay so
from a study perspective because you
specifically call out in the book that
it was a dry sauna so it's like I won't
do the water thing well that I believe
is where is what they sort of looked at
in the research
um in Finland it's the most common I
guess sauna modality uh although it's a
combination of dry and wet but I think
in the U.S most people think about wet
sauna as Steam and in fact that's what I
thought uh I thought a steam room was a
wet sauna so did I yeah to be honest but
it's actually it's actually not so I
think I I think I refer to saunas in
general as being dry saunas because
um most people in the U.S sauna is not
as common most people have at least in
the gyms that I have access to all
that's available to me are steam rooms
and they have different impacts or it's
just not studied yet not studied yet so
probably similar impact I personally
like to my personal preference is well
the research is on the side of the of
the sauna
um it's coming out of Finland people in
Finland are using dry dry saunas for the
most part they're not using steam rooms
and so if you want sort of the research
on your side you know you've got to do
the dry so walk me through the benefits
because they were Legion yeah they're
Legion I mean on the for one using a
sauna acts like an exercise mimetic and
what temperature are we talking about
here about 200 degrees you know 175 to
205 degrees it's like it's like the
range 205 yeah it's great it's like a
Russian Banya it's like amazing not for
very long it's gonna say like uh so
you're not a doctor blah blah blah
consult your physician yes but
um uh give me ballpark temperature
because I'm going to do whatever you
tell me to do yeah I mean I was in a
sauna last night and it was about 203
Jesus degrees Yeah it was very hot it
was a Russian for hell I don't know what
that means it's like classic old Russian
old school like very hot pretty much
okay so 203-ish degrees and you sit
there for how long
um I mean it's like in the oven do it I
know it's an oven it's my it's if it's
my first go around I'll be able to stay
in for you know 15 20 okay 25 minutes so
it's not you know an extreme amount of
time but as you do a couple of rounds
your tolerance sort of diminishes and
that's when you know you've diminishes
your tolerance in the same day or same
day okay
yeah if you're I think over the macro
your tolerance does increase you
acclimate and that's been I think shown
in the literature as well
um but in the micro it's just like
exercise I mean like you're you're not
as strong on your last set as you are on
your first set and sorry you were saying
that it's an exercise mometic so it
mimics some of the effects of exercise
of aerobic exercise like mild to
moderate aerobic exercise you can feel
this if you sit in a sauna you put your
finger over the radial artery in your
wrist and you'll notice it starts to
beat you like if you look at your heart
rate it's similar to what it would be if
you were jogging on a treadmill really
yeah and in fact I've been in I've done
this it's ridiculous it's amazing
amazing it's it's truly I think
medicinal and
there's even been moments in the sauna
where you know one of the uh indicators
of high intensity exercise that's
reaching like a lactic threshold is you
fail the talk test you're no longer able
to talk while you're exercising
um I thought you were saying in the
sauna I was like Jesus get out it can I
mean I've been into the sauna where it's
been so hot where I've actually had to
get out because it's like it's so hot I
can't even like talk anymore so but
that's the point of what you want to
like execute pass out on these things
I've never seen it
you don't want to pass out yeah exactly
so
um but you do want to bring your body to
a point of discomfort because this is a
another 205 degrees you're going to be
deeply uncomfortable Arizona is
uncomfortable so there you go
Jesus now I'm scared that's good that
makes me want to do it more it's hot but
you schwitz you sweat and sweating you
know so aside from the fact that it kind
of gives your so you get like a cardio
workout and it boosts blood flow it
increases nitric oxide so I mean if
you've ever had just a sort of um paint
a picture if you've ever had a an
injured joint or swollen ankle and you
put a hot compress on it it brings blood
to the surface right it gets really warm
and red and it promotes healing because
it boosts nitric oxide and it you know
brings nutrients uh to the area of
injury the same thing happens on a full
body scale when you sit in the sauna
because you're essentially applying a
hot compress to the entirety of your
body so it's amazingly healing and um
and that's one of the reasons I think
why it's been associated with such
dramatic risk reductions for stroke for
heart disease do you do this [ __ ] at
night the morning midday we're mad well
heat actually raising my heart rate so
it makes me worry about doing it too
close to bedtime
you probably don't want to do it too
close to bedtime because yeah for that
reason because it can be an exercise
mimetic exercise acts like a Time Setter
as well you don't want to do it too
close to bedtime
um in fact I would say if there is an
optimal time to do sauna you probably
want to do it
post-workout because actually heat seems
to potentiate uh the you know the
anabolic effects of exercise exercise
adaptation and the like
um but I'll do it you know when I do it
I tend to do because I'm I'm I go to a
place that has a hot and cold I do
what's called contrast therapy so I'll
sit in the sauna for 25 minutes and then
I'll go cool off in the cold and then
I'll go back and forth and so is there
is there a research on that because I
worry that that's a bit like doing the
cold after the exercise where if you're
going to do the hot do the if you're
going to do the cold do the cold yeah
and that mixing the two sounds like and
I'm wildly ignorant on this so I could
be totally wrong but intuitively that
feels wrong yeah like one would negate
yeah they're going to like you're sort
of on the path of one your heat shock
proteins are kicking off and then you go
cool down yeah I'm not actually aware of
any research that would like show that
that would be a negative thing if
anything I would think because it's this
accumulation of stress if you're doing
it on a day where you haven't gone to
the gym for example I think probably the
net is positive
but I couldn't tell you contrast therapy
I haven't seen any direct research on on
contrast therapy but it is a modality
that's been used traditionally you hear
people talk about it yeah I mean they do
it in Finland you know that's where
they're where you know they're buying
all these benefits and they come back in
yeah in fact I have the I have the
ability I had the privilege of getting
to do it and filmed recently it was so
much fun
um
and then I think you know it's pretty
clear that perspiring you release you
know all kinds of heavy metals certain
heavy metals cadmium I'm told cadmium
BPA phthalates you sweat out BPA yeah
that's interesting you can easily find
um if you go to PubMed and search for
blood sweat urine studies uh you can
look at a lot of this stuff like the
data is out there you can you know
find what we are excreting through our
through our sweat what seems to be
excreted you know in higher
concentration in urine
um and the like so
it's uh it's out there for people to see
but it's a major you know I think it's
super interesting and the fact that this
research is being done in Finland I
think is very telling because
if you were to do a study you know an
observational study on the population of
sauna goers in the U.S there's probably
a very strong healthy user bias you know
people who are using saunas are probably
you know people who have it in their
homes so they're affluent or they have
access to fancy gym memberships or
they're spending a lot of time in the
spa taking care of themselves but in
Finland you know Finland saunas are as
common as showers there's on average one
sauna for every household in Finland so
it's just a super commonplace ritual
that's just embedded in the culture so
that's where I think this research uh
you know where there's a lot of sort of
credence to the notion that saunas could
be beneficial to health because they
just do it it's you know it's such a
it's so ingrained in the culture there
so I'm going to give you a weird
anecdote
it is purely anecdotal sure but I was on
Saturday and Sunday I was eating the
toppings off of Domino's Pizza
and the only toppings I get are cheese
and I would do really light sauce so
even that was like very little so I
would do the cheese
olives pepperoni and I was eating it and
loved it and I just started noticing on
a Sunday that every Sunday night I would
feel like hot from the inside of my body
wow and it was just like a little
uncomfortable and I'd sleep a little
weird that night and I'm like
why am I always on Sunday and on like
Saturday I would allow myself to cheat
so if I wanted a candy bar to have a
candy bar if I wanted a bit of ice cream
I'd have ice cream but on Sunday I
wouldn't so Sunday it was just the
toppings from Domino's there was nothing
else in my diet that I would consider
you know sort of a cheat
and finally I was like is it possible
that I have a bad reaction to Dairy so
let me do the same thing but go to like
really light cheese and it stopped
happening interesting so I was like whoa
the only thing I affected was the amount
of cheese that I was in taking over
multiple meals because I would get a
pizza on Saturday and a pizza on Sunday
so I'm now cutting both of them in half
effectively in terms of the amount of
cheese and the the effect went away 100
now I know that's anecdotal but I was
like whoa maybe Dairy really is doing
some negative thing
so you couple that with all the
literature saying there's an issue I
know a lot of people have skin responses
like acne and stuff from dairy
right everybody's different so I
wouldn't you know I'm not uh saying that
everybody should should go out
especially if you know that you're
sensitive to it um I mean some people do
feel better cutting out casein which is
why aren't you saying like at a meta
level the people that and I mean maybe
this is the people that eat dairy or
pre-selected because they're not lactose
well they're also there's confounding
variables here right because like
Domino's Pizza who knows like if that's
even don't you dare say something bad
about my dominoes no I mean I'm being
glib but like who knows what is it is it
is it just cheese or maybe it's like
some kind of like processed cheese cut
with grain and Seed oils that's
terrifying but very possible it's yeah
it's a proposition it is possible so I
would I would try to like a B test that
by going and getting some like some some
higher quality cheese that you know is
just cheese
um and also there could be some kind of
interaction with like the you know the
oils and the emulsifiers that are
sometimes used I mean that's the thing
is that restaurants are notorious Cost
Cutters I'm a big advocate of steering
away a as best as one can from grain and
Seed oils because in restaurants we know
that they're just they're heated and
they're reheated and they're they become
toxic you know essentially by the time
they're served on the plate
um
and so that's just a problem with like
with eating out in general you can't
always predict how a food is going to
make you feel
my wife knows that all too well and we
had the very uh uh unpleasantly
eye-opening experience of realizing that
even a lot of high-end restaurants when
they say that it's just olive oil it's
really blended oil and so you now have
to ask very specifically is this blended
oil or is this 100 extra virgin olive
oil the servers will never know they
always go back and act as a chef and
then they're always as surprised as
anybody else and say oh my God we you
know I didn't realize but this actually
is blended oil yeah we're like whoa yeah
so and that just absolutely ruins Lisa's
stomach so oh yeah it's bad I I mean
there's there's I mean this is
controversial too there there is within
the nutritional and medical Orthodoxy
there is still a major push towards
these Ultra refined refined bleached and
deodorized green and Seed oils which to
me are such low quality food I mean
let's just I mean just from a food
quality standpoint alone and give me
some of the
um we're talking canola oil here like
what's that not necessarily the name
brand yeah like what's the type of thing
I'm pulling off the shelf so canola oil
is probably and I'm not an advocate for
the consumption of canola oil but it's
probably the best of the Gaggle really
it's it's got a higher proportion of
monounsaturated fat which is chemically
quite stable I'm not advocating for it I
personally avoid it
um but why do you avoid it if it's well
because it's in that it's in that
category of of refined bleach and
deodorized Grain and seed oil so canola
oil corn oil soybean oil so it's
offensive but the least offensive right
okay that's how I would so I get then
what makes it offensive what makes it
the least offensive
well one of the major problems with
these grain and Seed oils is that they
have a very high proportion of what's
called polyunsaturated fatty acids pufas
for short and poofas are not in any way
dangerous right they're found in all fat
containing foods contain some proportion
of pufas right so grass-fed beef has
pufas in it wild fatty fish has poofas
in it avocados have some components some
proportion of pufas in it
the issue is that in Whole Foods those
pufas which are very delicate and damage
prone they're prone to a form of
chemical disfigurement called oxidation
they're protected in Whole Foods by the
antioxidants that nature has has has
packaged them with right nature thought
ahead nature was like these fats are
very delicate they're very damage prone
let's bundle
foods that contain these polyunsaturated
fats in any significant quantity with
vitamin E which is one of the most
important fat soluble antioxidants in
nature right
the issue with grain and Seed oils is
that
a these fats are rich in polyunsaturated
fats which are very delicate and damage
prone and whether it's via heat or or
mechanical or chemical extraction
they're subject to forces that
accelerate this oxidative process right
light heat and oxygen all catalyze and
accelerate this oxidative process and
they're stripped of the antioxidants
that in Whole Foods would protect them
so the reason why I would say that
canola oil is you know maybe the best of
of the worst is that it's got a lower
proportion of these polyunsaturated fat
of these polyunsaturated fats on the
other hand it's got a higher proportion
of omega-3 fats which are actually more
delicate and damage prone than omega-6
fats so I'm not again advocating for
their consumption but
um
but you know it's got a high proportion
of monounsaturated fat which
monounsaturated means it only contains
one double bond which means that under
normal circumstances it's actually quite
chemically stable that monounsaturated
fat is the primary fatty acid found in
extra virgin olive oil it's also found
in abundance and grass-fed beef and wild
salmon and the like but all of these
grain and Seed oils whether we're
talking about canola oil soybean oil
grapeseed oil is probably the worst
because it's about I believe 80 to 90
polyunsaturated fat
in during the production chain they all
undergo a process a step called
deodorization which is the food
industry's equivalent of the witness
protection program it basically it takes
these oils which would otherwise contain
really bitter flavors noxious noxious uh
Aromas that that consumers wouldn't want
right and it it it absolves them of any
character
that's the deodorization step now the
issue is that that step creates a small
but significant amount of trans fats
which we know there's no safe level of
trans fat consumption I mean the FDA
banned their most common uh
occurrence The partially hydrogenated
fats why is that so my understanding is
probably a super lay person's
understanding of trans fats is that
basically the the bonds in it become
rigid so it's normally the fat molecule
is quite squishy and it becomes rigid
and then when those when you uptake that
into your body and you use those fat
cells to make your own cell membranes
you're using these rigid brittle
um
fat cells and so it makes the actual
membrane on your own cells brittle and
rigid is that well actually what's
happening yeah I mean that's what
happens when it once those those fats
have
become have been integrated into the
phospholipid bilayer which is what it's
called which is how those fats sort of
Orient themselves within the
um the cell membrane
but it comes down to the double bonds
and the fact that they are
electrochemically unstable
um
and
monounsaturated fats the mono implies
that they have one double bond the
polyunsaturated fats the poly in
polyunsaturated fats imply that they
have multiple double bonds and so
on the spectrum of monounsaturated fats
and polyunsaturated fats the
monounsaturated fats are actually more
saturated because they have fewer double
bonds when you have a double bond so
double bonds generally they what they do
is they make a a cell they help promote
the characteristic of membrane fluidity
which is actually the opposite so it
they because these double bonds they
cause a kink in the fatty acid chain
it doesn't allow the fatty acid the
fatty acids to to aggregate as tightly
as they would with saturated fats
saturated fats are straight and so that
allows them to pack together more
tightly on that's why saturated fats are
solid at room temperature
polyunsaturated fats actually generally
promote this characteristic of membrane
fluidity and we need polyunsaturated
fats so this is not to demonize them in
any way we need both the omega-6s and
the Omega-3s and actually the
polyunsaturated fatty acid that's most
abundant in Grain and Seed oils linoleic
acid we do have some physiological
requirement for that fat right
the issue is we over consume it today
and we consume them in the form of these
grain and Seed oils which again are
prone to oxidation and
lipid peroxidation in particular is a
major contributor to oxidative stress in
the brain so we don't even have the
long-term data that makes me feel
comfortable
consuming these kinds of fats at the
level that your average American is
consuming them we know that they lower
LDL relative to saturated fat and I
think that's one of the if not the
reason that the medical and nutritional
Orthodoxy loves them
um but yeah they're prone they're prone
to oxidation and we know that the brain
is a crucible for oxidative stress and
not just do they oxidize but they
generate these really toxic secondary
products of oxidation like aldehydes
certain aldehydes which we know are no
bueno so I take a sort of precautionary
principle
approach you know with these with these
fats and I think that I think that
they're they're definitely worth
avoiding also 20 of the oxygen that
you're that you're using you're 20 of
whole body oxygen consumption is being
used by the brain and the Brain accounts
for two percent of the body's Mass so 20
of the oxygen in in a container that
that speaks for two percent of the mass
of your body right it's a container
that's ultimately the size of a
grapefruit right so you've got all this
oxygen
being used to create energy in this tiny
space and your brain is comprised
primarily of these kinds of fats
polyunsaturated fats that's why we need
to get them from diet right we need to
get them but we should be getting them
from Whole Foods from Wild fatty fish
from nuts and seeds from
um avocados you know
but that's why the brain is essentially
a crucible for oxidative stress and
oxidative stress is at the foundation of
conditions like Alzheimer's disease of
Parkinson's disease it can exacerbate
pre-existing disease States right so
it's a big problem and I'm I'm not going
to say that you know we have all the
data to say that these seed oils are The
Smoking Gun with with conditions like
Alzheimer's Disease by the way these are
multifactorial conditions so you know
I'm not I don't want to scare people
into thinking that these oils are the
cause of the of those conditions and we
we honestly don't have that data to say
even that they're that they are with
with absolute certainty that they are
causally related that's the hypothesis
but I don't think that we will ever have
that kind of data that's sort of my plea
to people right and the medical order is
what is to is to approach these oils
with great caution because they didn't
exist in the human food supply prior to
100 years ago and mechanistically we see
that they're so prone to this this sort
of chemical chemical degradation and
disfigurement and that's relevant to the
brain and also I'll add is another
important point that the context in
which these oils are being consumed is
generally a diet that's low in
antioxidants low in in fat soluble
antioxidants like vitamin E which we
know is crucially important vitamin E is
one of the most important to get vitamin
E
so almonds are a fantastic Source
avocados are a fantastic Source
grass-fed grass-finished beef is a great
source of vitamin E you've got three
times the vitamin E and grass-finished
beef as you haven't grain finished beef
generally in nature wherever you find
polyunsaturated fats you find in the
appropriate proportion vitamin E that's
like Nature's Way to protect these
polyunsaturated fats so we're eating
more polyunsaturated fats than ever
before in human history and we're
consuming less vitamin E
I think 90 percent of adults don't
consume adequate don't consume an
adequate amount of vitamin E which is
actually vitamin E represents about I
believe eight isoforms of vitamin E we
under consume I mean all of them because
we're not eating we're eating so few
Whole Foods these days
and we're over consuming these these
grain and Seed oils the more
polyunsaturated fats you consume the
higher your requirement for vitamin E
and most people aren't consuming
adequate vitamin E so I think it's a I
think it's a huge problem and
anecdotally totally anecdotal you know
that I got started because my mom was
very sick she had a form of dementia
for many years she had Lewy Body
dementia yeah that's what Robin Williams
said right yeah yeah crazy horrible
disease horrible disease and and my mom
passed away three years ago and this is
just an anecdote take it with a grain of
salt but
um my mom ate a diet that any dietitian
of the 80s and 90s would have said she's
on the right path well done I grew up
with these grain and Seed oils in my
kitchen right
big plastic see-through jug of corn oil
by the stove margarine in my fridge
yeah I grew up eating these kinds of
fats now I'm not going to say that they
are what caused my mom's condition but I
do you know I it's it's my hypothesis
hypothesis that along with the over
consumption of grain and seeds with with
refined grain products rather these oils
um
yeah I don't think that they're doing
our health any favors
yeah I want to go back to this idea of
victim blaming you're such a kind person
and I love how you're trying to position
this to make sure that the most people
can hear you assumingly possible but
what I don't want to get lost in there
is that like I'll speak for myself I
have unintentionally made a lot of poor
choices with my diet because I didn't
know better and then I've intentionally
made poor choices with my diet because
it was a lot of fun and it's really
important to me to now be at a place
where I'm at least more or less to the
best of everybody's belief at this point
I know what to do to like if I'm feeling
inflamed and my joints are hurting I
feel in control I know what to do to
bring that pain down so I just want to
make sure that it doesn't get lost in
the kindness that there really are
there's cause and effect to what you eat
and while it's not all known it will for
sure change over time you definitely
shouldn't feel bad about even eating
things that you know are bad for you
like don't feel bad about it right like
when I eat bad foods I'm not feeling
guilty I'm like I this is a trade-off
right I may be shortening My Life by
some amount but this is really fun so
I'm going to do it and certainly if I
didn't know any better I mean Jesus what
can you do numbness really know like you
know what are we doing like when I
discovered that blankets had like you
know crazy chemicals in them uh I went
out and bought an all-natural blanket
that [ __ ] is scratchy so now I still use
my old filled with terrible chemicals
blanket because it's soft as hell so you
know my thing is look we're I don't want
anybody to feel ashamed or anything like
that but I want people to understand
that you can get control of this that if
your diet is leading you somewhere that
you don't want to go that you really can
learn about it and make choices that
will yield a very different outcome so
for me I look at my family they're all
morbidly obese and I coming from the
same stock was headed in the same
direction
learned about nutrition and was able to
take myself in a completely different
direction so I really want people to
understand you can eat whatever you want
and I'm not judging you I think it's
amazing make your choices
um but hey if you're ever getting a
result that you don't want you can make
a new choice and get a new result yeah
so beautifully said and to me I think
what it what it really comes down to is
giving people to the tools to make uh to
to to make an informed choice at the end
of the day because
a lot of people when they show up to
their doctor's office with these
conditions that take years to develop
years if not decades right they're like
why me and so as long as I think I I
know that I'm putting good information
out to to help people make an informed
Choice then then by all means indulge
when when you choose to because
no single meal single Indulgence is
going to sway your health in any
direction positive or negative no you
know it's not eating for optimal brain
health isn't about eating a handful of
berries every once in a while it's about
your dietary pattern as a whole it's
about how you're eating every single day
um and with regard to I mean other
things that I think people really
ought to stop doing that will uh make a
measurable have a measurable positive
impact on their health can we talk about
mouthwash for a little bit yeah yeah
you're trying to like really [ __ ] me up
with this mouthwash thing yeah this is a
this is something that um the more I
learn about it the more uh the more
convinced I am that this is something we
need to be talking about because nobody
is right
um there's a lot of money that goes into
the the sale of mouthwash in fact I was
at a drugstore
um not too long ago and I saw this big
ad imploring people with type 2 diabetes
which is very common in this country
right that periodontal disease is a big
problem for for people with type 2
diabet diabetes so they should buy our
mouthwash right it's a big mouthwash
brand but mouthwash
is a major problem and I'll tell you why
people who frequently use mouthwash what
you're doing is you're nuking bacteria
in your mouth that are required to
create and recycle nitric oxide and we
create nitric oxide in different ways
one of the reasons why nose breathing is
so important because we create nitric
oxide
via the nitric oxide synthase enzyme in
the epithelial epithelial cells of our
paranasal sinus but oral bacteria are
play a crucial role in this nitric oxide
pathway
um
and the the reason why is they help to
reduce nitrates from food
to nitrite so reducing it means that
they're removing an oxygen molecule and
it's nitrate that enters that basically
creates nitric oxide in our blood
vessels and they also recycle the nitric
oxide
um that we produce endogenously when
we're exercising
so so far these are a lot of words that
like I sort of understand but like
what's the real impact of my twice a day
Listerine habit so studies show and we
need more research but what they've
shown in obese patients is that people
who use antiseptic mouthwash that's the
key word so mouthwash that is germ
destroying bacteria antibacterial
mouthwash twice a day or more have a 50
increased risk of developing type 2
diabetes
right so weird and doubling of risk for
hypertension so high blood pressure but
it makes sense when you realize that
you're killing the bacteria that help to
increase levels of nitric oxide but what
is nitric oxide doing in the body that
would impact type 2 diabetes because
it's not just involved in blood pressure
it's a it's a cellular signaling
molecule that's involved in insulin
sensitivity
which is weird important insulin
resistance is the Cornerstone of type 2
diabetes so it's basically affecting our
body's ability to process sugar so if I
were wearing a continuous glucose
monitor and I'm using my Listerine and
then I stop would I notice a difference
in my reading
if you're wearing a continuous glucose
monitor and you stop you could
potentially yeah you could potentially
see
um if if this Bears out right because
these are correlational studies sure but
um if this is borne out
um you would potentially see an
improvement in your body's ability to
partition sugar if you cut out but
here's the thing is that one even just
one use can increase your blood pressure
um and also they've shown and this was a
randomized control trial they've shown
that
using antiseptic mouthwash after a
workout so we know that exercise is as
powerful as medicine for helping to
normalize our blood pressure they found
that using mouthwash after exercise
negates
to a large degree the antihypertensive
effects of exercise so basically negates
some of one of the most important
benefits of exercise using mouthwash
after a workout so the take home is
don't use antiseptic mouthwash after a
workout now the type of mouthwash that
they use in that study is called
chlorhexidine which is a I believe it's
a prescription only
antiseptic mouthwash but I would not
regularly use an alcohol based mouthwash
for the for that reason because you're
basically nuking the bacteria you
wouldn't take an antibiotic every day we
know that antibact we've overused
antibacterial hand soap so why
who in their right mind would would
think that it makes sense to sterilize
the oral cavity every single day if
you're supposed to have bacteria in your
mouth what is up my friend Tom bilyu
here and I have a big question to ask
you how would you rate your level of
personal discipline on a scale of one to
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a ten I've got something cool for you
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stick with them even when it gets boring
and it will get boring building your
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yeah but like it my mouth literally
tastes better if I do
Listerine even because there are days
where I'll just brush my teeth and I
forget or I'm traveling and so I only
have toothpaste I don't have the
Listerine yeah and I'm like I notice
well the increased risk was was seen for
people who use it twice or more per day
so I mean you could hypothetically use
it for use it use it once a day if you
wanted
um but I I personally wouldn't I would
tongue scrape which is a great way to
freshen up the mouth like with your
toothbrush just yeah you could use it
you could do that you'd brush your
tongue how flossing you well there there
are actual like these medical tongue
scraping really uh things that you can
buy yeah because a lot of the like the
the bad breath bacteria it Aggregates on
the tongue but yeah I mean I think like
flossing regularly
I I mean it blows my mind that there are
people that don't we're getting way off
topic but like it blows my mind that
there are people that don't floss like
all I need to do is floss once and see
what I'm pulling out of my teeth and
that to me is like I floss now twice a
day
um I also you know brush I
um think that you know fluoride has has
antiseptic uh properties so I personally
use a fluoride free
um toothpaste I use toothpaste with
hydroxyapatite which
um is actually fairly common in Japan
there are studies that suggest that it's
as good at re helping to re mineralize
teeth as fluoride so I use a an
hydroxyapatene is a natural component of
bone and teeth so there's no sort of
antiseptic quality of of uh
nanohydroxyapatite so I floss a brush
and then I eat an evolutionary
evolutionarily appropriate diet I cut
out the refined grain products which we
know are easily retained by Oral
bacteria and are highly karyogenic I
actually talk about this ingeniously
agenic yeah they promote the formation
of carries which is the the medical way
of saying cavities got it
um
yeah they promote the growth of
streptococcus streptococcus mutants
which is the primary cavity causing
bacteria in the mouth
um
but the problem with rinsing with uh
antiseptic mouthwash is you're nuking
the bad bacteria but you're also nuking
the good bacteria the bacteria that help
to break down nitrate in our foods like
beets and arugula right beets in arugula
we know are rich in nitrates but if
you're regularly rinsing your mouth with
antiseptic mouthwash you're you're
basically disallowing the ability of
your food to have a neuro a cardio
protective effect right like you could
be eating all the beets and arugula you
want but if you're destroying the
bacteria in your mouth that are required
to reduce the nitrate that those foods
contain to nitrite you're you're
basically like a you're you're wasting
your money and you're wasting your
effort because we rely on oral bacteria
to
um to derive maximum benefit from those
Foods right
all right super interesting now let's
get into what are the things that we
should be adding I like your take on
meat
um I have now I've really tried to go
plant forward so
um we have there's a guy here on the
team who has a really big percentage gap
between his chronological agents
biological age so
um I was like what do you do and he had
been vegan for years so I was like all
right let's do this and he gave me this
concoction to make in the morning it's
largely fruit though and I was like
there's no way you're gonna die like
when I first saw him eating it I was
like bro like that there's no way that's
good for you and his body composition of
course he's very very skinny has a hard
time putting on weight so I was like is
he like skinny fat and you know so
anyway let me try this wearing my
continuous glucose monitor I eat this
thing now if you eat it slowly you go up
to about 120 or I go up to about 120 and
you stay that's where he goes as well
120 and he stays if I eat it fast I'll
go all the way up to 150 uh which for me
that's like sort of red light High yeah
so that is questionable but but I've my
body composition did not go up so I
don't know if it's just depressing my
calories and the overall caloric intake
on the Smoothie isn't very high I don't
know but
um
but I don't feel great and so I notice
on days where I have it I'm just meh I
don't know I it's not traumatic it's not
bad it's not brain fog it's nothing if
you were going to give like a sense of
what's the qualia of your day I would
just say I'm off a little bit I wouldn't
be able to pinpoint it it's not brain
fog it's not lack of energy I don't know
just don't feel normal now if I eat meat
I feel like a million bucks I'm ready to
rock so have you reverted your position
then like have you gone back to like a
more yeah oh if I if I immediately I do
both but there might be three or four
days where I'll go and I won't have the
Smoothie so on those days I would say I
feel normal because I always feel good
because my diet's clean just year round
um
and
when I have the smoothie I feel a little
bit off but it's not catastrophic by any
means
um
and for body composition reasons
sometimes I'll do the shake just because
it does seem to help me stay tight even
though it's fruit which I still can't
wrap my head around how that's true uh
but it is certainly makes me feel Fuller
from a muscular standpoint
um
but yeah so anyway I keep trying to go
plant forward I'm never loving the way
that I feel
there's a lot of Dogma around like
either moral reasons for needing to go
plant forward but I like the way that
you had a take on meat in the book I'd
love for you to go into that why meat
let's get into the weeds a little bit on
amino acids yeah yeah
there's this you know I mean we talked
about this push towards plant-based
eating and I think that it's it's great
to include plants right I mean it's we
see that fruit and vegetable consumption
is associated with reduced inflammation
with with longevity all these all these
really positive things right
observationally when we look at
People's Health and their meat
consumption habits people who consume
more meat just because meat has been
demonized for so many decades at this
point
people who consume more meat
and especially processed meat they tend
to have worse Health outcomes but that's
because people who eat more meat tend to
be more sedentary they tend to smoke
more people who are vegan tend to be
more health conscious right they tend to
um or or people that have plant heavy
diets right people who are
here's a good example of of healthy user
bias right like if you were to look
observationally at the population level
at all the people in the in the U.S who
eat quinoa and then you were to sort of
um rank them in terms of how much quinoa
they're eating right
I guarantee you you would see the people
who eat quinoa often have great health
outcomes right is it because of the
quinoa or is it in spite of the quinoa
right that's where we have to recognize
when you start eating quinoa you're
shopping at air one there you go yeah
the fact that you know how to pronounce
quinoa is a good sign right that's a
good sign which most people wouldn't
know how to pronounce quinoa right
especially if they're not Health Food
Shoppers or if they're or or health
conscious for that matter and so that's
the that's the limitation with I think
epidemiology when it comes to teasing
out the value or the health effect that
meat can have right but when you look at
what meat is I mean it's a pristine
source of protein it's the highest
quality highest biological biological
value source of protein to be found in
nature right we can look at the
digestible indispensable amino acid
score which is you know the latest and
greatest way of measuring protein
digestibility we see that meat is
consistently at the top I mean soy comes
close uh but you know eggs whey protein
gas beef chicken always at the top
um the proportion of essential amino
acids is phenomenal right like you've
got a very high proportion of the nine
essential amino acids very concentrated
in branched chain amino acids which we
know are crucially important for
halting muscle protein breakdown and
stimulating muscle protein synthesis we
know that high protein foods meat in
particular also tend to contain a lot of
really important micronutrients that
that are typically under consumed today
in their most bioavailable form I'll add
so you know when you're getting
micronutrients whether it's B12 or iron
or zinc from an animal sourced food
those micronutrients are Plug and Play
to your body right they don't have to
undergo complex biochemical
transformation that vary in in the in
their efficacy
from person to person right like
plant-based
Omega-3s for example
um alpha linolenic acid
very constrained in terms of our ability
to generate the biologically relevant
omega-3 fats icosapentainoic acid and
dicosa hexane noag acid DHA fat from the
plant-based form right women are about
10 times better at it than men women I
think about 10 percent of the
plant-based Omega-3s that they that they
ingest will get converted to DHA fat
it's thought that women have a higher
ability to do this because of
childbearing right but men
um less than one percent of the
plant-based Omega-3s that we ingest
actually get get converted to DHA fat so
that's a miserable I mean statistic
right there whereas the DHA fat that you
ingest from wild salmon or from omega-3
enriched eggs plug and play for the
human body and this is true for all the
I mean many many of the micronutrients
that you see in in animal products and
they're without anti-nutrients that can
potentially hinder their absorption so
so I'm a big advocate of the consumption
of meat I think it's I think it's really
important and also
I'll add that
there's this big issue of food access
and food distribution in this country
right you can go into
any almost any supermarket in this
country and buy a pack of ground beef
right and to me that is a going to be a
much healthier dinner than boxed mac and
cheese right you can go into any gas
station almost and find canned tuna
right which is going to be a pristine
source of protein great source of
minerals like selenium and such and so I
think we we have to really
um be careful not to demonize these
kinds of these kinds of foods now I'm
not saying everybody should go out and
become carnivores right that's not my
Approach but I think we do need to get
back to some sort of semblance of common
sense when it comes to the kinds of
foods that we know that humans have been
eating since we've been human
yeah it's interesting watching some of
the nature shows and seeing like
um there are like take the Pelican a
pelican will try to eat a cat
it's not like you know we have this
image of like oh uh monkeys only eat you
know shoots and leaves no no if they can
get a hold of something they will eat it
Nature's wild yeah Nature's wild
um so yeah I think it's pretty clear
from an evolutionary standpoint that
humans are omnivores and I like the idea
of eat what you need to build and so if
you need to build muscle and you know
brain tissue and all that well then
you're gonna eat the things that are
actually that versus eating a plant
which has those you know amino acids for
the most part but not quite in the most
available form
um it's very interesting yeah also I
mean low-fat vegetarian diets are
associated with with reduced
testosterone
um it's not like plants don't have a
potential downside right I mean we have
to talk about the fact that plants today
grown especially in the industrial plant
agriculture system harbor heavy metals
um they are vehicles for herbicides and
pesticides which you know I mean
I'm not saying that organic is better
than conventional I think there's debate
a healthy debate on that
um
but uh but yeah I mean I think I think
it's about ultimately
um a balance a balance of both but um
but protein I think is important it's
highly satiating it assuages our hunger
I think in a really powerful way right
which fat and carbs can't do
um
again the the fact that high protein
foods contain are a repository of other
micronutrients which we know are
beneficial
um I think it's I think it's really
important and there's this fear now I
think around protein and Longevity and
we know that people who are people over
65 who eat higher levels of protein have
increased longevity reduced risk of
cancer
um
and uh and so yeah I take a I take a
pretty Firm Stance on that eggs for
example eczara another food that you can
go anywhere in this country right food
deserts you'll be able to find eggs
right they're not going to be the most
pristine pasteurized eggs that you and I
might find in our local Whole Foods for
example but there's still a health food
there's still a cognitive multivitamin
right egg yolks are incredible so
um
so yeah I'm really against the sort of
fear-mongering around around is there
such a thing as too many eggs ate a lot
of eggs yeah a lot there's a eggs
dietary cholesterol we now know has very
little long-term effect on on serum
cholesterol there might be an acute
effect
um because when you eat more cholesterol
when you when you through your diet
ingest more cholesterol your liver is
going to create less of it when you
ingest less your liver is going to
create more so the body wants
homeostasis right the issue is that
there's a bit of a lag time so if you uh
from one day to the next start eating
more cholesterol
um dietary cholesterol if you're on a
low cholesterol diet then you start
eating more cholesterol you may perhaps
see an increase in your blood lipids but
that will normalize over time
um the the key sort of needle mover on
cholesterol
tends to be saturated certain saturated
fatty acids
um and we talked sort of about this but
um
but I you know with foods like butter
coconut oil they'll raise your your LDL
cholesterol and there's really no
nutritional value to I think like eating
an excess of of isolated fats right
you're gonna when you when you adopt a
diet that contains animal products like
red meat you're gonna you're gonna have
a cholesterol level that's lower than I
mean that's I'm sorry higher than that
of a of a vegan perhaps but I think that
there's benefit to
um there's there are other other
benefits to be had from consuming these
Foods right the benefits outweigh the
risks the fact that meat can help you
stay robust and healthy it can help
optimize your testosterone your your
hormones your testosterone
um the fact that it provides all of
these other micronutrients that help
your body carry out all of its many sort
of faculties
um I think is is non-trivial it's a
non-trivial benefit
got to support the science but also I
think it's important to also try to live
in a way that is going to minimize your
risk one of the things you talked about
in the book that it's been on my radar
for a while but I know very little about
it is environmental toxins
um what are some of the big things that
people should be avoiding what are the
ones that are just [ __ ] ever present
so environmental toxins I talk about
this quite a bit in the book and
unfortunately I don't really have a
strong sense of how they would have
related to what my mom developed but
certainly there are certain cancers in
the body that are sensitive to the way
our hormones fluctuate breast cancer
prostate cancer would be the two primary
examples but generally speaking we're
inundated with industrial pollutants
whether it's the fine particulate matter
in the air that we breathe if we live in
you know a polluted city many many
Americans live in you know in in
polluted areas do air filters work air
purifiers can work HEPA filters a HEPA
vacuum and a HEPA air filter is one of
the best ways of removing fine particles
from the air PM 2.5 is essentially what
it's called it's the most dangerous
what's PM 2.5 it's basically the uh the
measurement of the particles so there's
PM size yeah okay
2.5 I believe it's nanometers okay so
the smaller the more dangerous the
smaller the more dangerous why vaping is
bad vaping is not good for you although
but is that part of what the beef is is
that it's such a fine particle size
that's not why vaping is bad vaping is
bad I think because of the vitamin E
acetate that's now in these in these you
know vaping solutions that people are
inhaling and it's it's causing Illness
but fine particulate matter generally is
like magnetite and iron and and actual
metals that we inhale through the air
that are created in the burning of coal
in you know vehicle exhaust
um sloughed off from any number of
industrial processes and it's like
literally metal for example magnetite
they've been able to identify magnetite
in the brains in Mexico City of toddlers
essentially because these particles are
so small they're able to pierce them
they enter circulation easily and they
pierce the blood-brain barrier and
they're able to actually accumulate in
the hippocampus where they cause
inflammation they've been shown to
um cause the aggregate of plaques that
are associated with Alzheimer's disease
but in young people
amyloid beta is one of the primary
proteins that's involved in the in the
um in Alzheimer's disease it's a
basically it's the backbone of the
plaque that characterizes the disease
and amyloid beta is not necessarily a
bad thing it's bad when it you know
creates these plaques that Gunk up the
brain but I think the the
current sort of understanding of what
this protein is meant to do in the brain
it's sort of there to actually initially
protect it against inflammatory insults
how's it protecting it so is it uh like
finding a particle or a virus and like
wrapping it like one like a pearl does a
grain of sand is it something like that
that's a very that's a very good analogy
yeah it basically it basically
encapsulates it and the the research
that they're doing on this is coming I
think predominantly out of Harvard
um they're showing this with the herpes
virus that people that have herpes or
people with Alzheimer's generally they
can find herpes in the brain
um and that it's amyloid seems to
basically like protect the brain it's
initially trying to protect the brain
from this virus and so it wraps it up
and it causes the proteins to cross-link
and and Aggregate and misfold and form
these plaques so the same thing
conceivably can happen with
um and it's it seems to be happening
with fine particular matter and there is
an interesting relationship between
exposure to air pollution and one's risk
for developing
Alzheimer's disease and though
Alzheimer's disease is the most common
form of dementia it's not the only form
of dementia and my mom lived throughout
her life in New York City which is you
know now I think the air is a bit
cleaner but
um it's a city that for many many years
has had problems with with air pollution
so
yeah that's a major one I mean clean air
and there are a few things that you can
do to to protect yourself against this I
think you know getting a good air filter
especially in your personal breathing
space
there was a
there was a great book I'm forgetting oh
Dr Wolverton I think it's his first name
was Bill Bill Wolverton he was a NASA
research scientist and he looked at
plants and um he analyzed the rate at
which plants are able to sort of clean
the air and he did this because you
could essentially put a plant on board
of a space shuttle and provide clean air
to you know to the astronauts and so
there's actually did that he I don't
know if they actually went through with
it they may be
um but that's what he was studying with
his time at Nasa and since then he's
written a book I believe the book is
called how to have clean air or how to
clean your air or something like that or
how to plant fresh air or grow fresh air
something like that it's a really cool
book I cite it in in mine and he
basically lists out all the plants in
ascending order and I have the top 10 in
my book genius Foods or the genius life
um plants that are basically able to
clean the air for you which is great
they're able to reduce levels of
formaldehyde which leeches out into the
air from you know wood furniture and
carpets and couches and things like that
um
another big problem for people I would
say plastic related compounds are some
of the most common
everywhere compounds that that were just
inundated with on a day-to-day basis and
they do affect the way that our hormones
work
compounds like phthalates and bisphenol
a are what are called xenoestrogens they
is bisphenol a BPA BPA yes
although now consumers are starting to
get wise to the potential dangers of BPA
and so you'll see a lot of products that
are BPA free but that doesn't mean that
they're free of chemically similar
compounds like BP s and BPF so
essentially it's created this chemical
game of whack-a-mole where as soon as
consumers become aware of a compound you
know industry is very quick to Pivot and
then use actually they're able to sort
of hijack the fears of the consumer to
then make Health claims about their
products like this product no BPA but
but a lot of them do you avoid plastic
like at every conceivable turn
um I tried to without driving myself too
crazy so if I'm traveling and I don't I
can't find water in a glass bottle then
yeah I will drink from plastic even
though I know it's not ideal because the
reality is you can't escape these
compounds so trying to is a completely
futile effort so by you not drinking you
know avoiding drinking water when you're
thirsty because it may come in a plastic
bottle doesn't make a lot of sense
because we're just inundated with these
compounds the best that we can do is to
minimize our exposure to them and to
help our bodies to facilitate the
purging of toxins that we have already
accumulated how do we do that
so when it comes to detoxing a lot of
people are spending money on overpriced
teas and supplements and things like
that but the reality is what I like to
talk about the three p's of detoxing and
it's peeing pooping and perspiring
and this is literally I mean crucially
important because whether it's heavy
metals or phthalates or parabens or BPA
or pfas chemicals which basically
include
um it's an umbrella category for the
chemicals that are sometimes used to
create Teflon pans or non-stick pans
which are also incidentally found in
dental tape so if you're using dental
tape not dental floss you want to switch
over dental tape yeah I've heard of
dental tape like it's the Glide dental
dental floss that's like it's actually
called dental tape so right on dental
tape yeah interesting yeah okay so no
dental tape all dental floss all dental
floss it's going to be better cleaning
your teeth and you're not using Teflon
essentially yep interesting yeah and
they've shown that I can actually enter
circulation you want to be very careful
with uh do you cook with Teflon what do
you cook with I don't know I use a cast
iron pan I use stainless steel it
doesn't stick uh
it not if you could if you cook with
them the right way what about ceramic
ceramic can be good do they make ceramic
uh frying pans they do make ceramic
frying pans yeah yeah interesting you
just want to be careful with the coated
the most Teflon ever you don't use
dental tape yeah but I cook in Teflon
pans there is a product and I have uh no
affiliation with them whatsoever but
they're called green pan and I've
discovered them on my own and I've I've
purchased you know one or two of their
pans with you know with my money
um they claim to not have any of these
of these chemicals in them
um and I think that the that they that
they claim that they're free of all
related compounds as well so I think the
jury is still out but it may be a better
option I don't know
um but generally yeah you want to you
want to support your body's own detox
detox detoxification and you can do that
by eating in a way that's going to
support Digestive Health you know
consuming lots of uh vegetables fiber in
general but especially cruciferous
vegetables I'm a big fan of because of
their ability to stoke our body's own
detox Pathways
um and I heard you talking about one of
your favorite is baby uh broccoli
Sprouts broccoli Sprouts I've never even
heard of broccoli Sprouts yeah baby
broccoli um I've heard of broccolini but
this is different broccolini yeah so
you've got baby broccoli at the sort of
those are the infants and then you've
got broccolini and then you've got full
adult grown broccoli I think that's
pretty much how it goes don't don't
quote me but but broccoli Sprouts or
Baby It's You know it's like three or
four day old broccoli and you can just
buy broccoli seeds and you can what is
your high end that makes it so useful so
broccoli Sprouts are very high in a
compound called sulforaphane in fact one
pound of broccoli Sprouts or the
equivalent of 100 pounds of broccoli in
terms of their capacity to produce this
compound and this is useful in the
detoxification yeah so it basically it's
a very effective upregulator of a gene
pathway in our body is called the Nrf2
pathway which is a detoxification
pathway it increases levels of
glutathione in the body which is our
body's Master antioxidant and detoxifier
when something is detoxifying because
whenever I hear people talk about
detoxifying they sound crazy yeah so
what is actually happening in
detoxification well for one it's you're
basically telling your liver to create
more glutathione which does what so if
amyloid plaques go into the brain
surround a virus or a particle I get
that yeah I understand how that works
you can't detox viruses you can't detox
amyloid but you can deduct certain of
these compounds that are fat soluble
what are they doing well the liver does
the liver makes them water soluble so
they can be more easily excreted and the
liver what are they doing are they
running around grabbing things like what
are they what are they removing from the
body like this poor kid Mexico City
who's breathing in metals that's
crossing the blood-brain barrier the
only way to lock that up or can that be
detoxified I know people get heavy metal
poisoning like and then they supposedly
detoxify like whatever what is actually
happening at a cellular level they can
be detoxified so something is going in
certain heavy metals can be chelated by
your body chelated is that wrapping
person that's when you basically wrap a
heavy metal and you excrete it okay and
you're wrapping it in glutathione uh you
could wrap it in glutathione they could
be disarmed by seleno proteins which are
selenium-based enzymes in the brain this
happens with Mercury
um so there's for each compound there's
sort of like a different way in which
they're detoxed some of some compounds
are not as easily excreted through our
poop and our pee and we have to sweat
them out like cadmium cadmium is a good
example of that
um so it's different for every compound
and I can't you know I don't pretend to
know the detox route for everything the
liver is sending out the things yeah
things you like how technical that is
yeah it's sending out the things that
are going to go and grab all these and
it it somehow takes it to if it's
cadmium it's taking it to sweat if it's
something else it's p if it's something
else is poop like that's the yeah I mean
you have so your liver has two detox
phases there's phase one detox and phase
two and in the first phase I believe
it's making these compounds water
soluble that's so that they can be more
easily excreted it's making the toxins
water soluble yeah somehow yes
um and then yeah they can be excreted by
the kidneys in our pee or you know they
get excreted into our bile which is
another reason why you know I think that
when my mom had these this bilia ribbon
this bile back up uh into her
circulation it was essentially causing a
buildup of toxins because
um that's one major route of exit for
these for these toxic chemicals and
that's why eating fiber is so important
because it basically traps them in your
poop and this also actually happens
interestingly with cholesterol so a lot
of people struggle with uh
I mean we could debate high cholesterol
versus low cholesterol and and what that
really means from the standpoint of
Health but I think if you have very high
cholesterol you know there's probably
it's probably a marker that something is
not going right in the body give me what
what do you consider high like to talk
about cholesterol intelligently don't
you have to start talking particle size
and fluffiness and all that stuff yeah
so I talked about that quite a bit in
genius foods and I think that your
normal calculated LDL that you get on a
on a blood lab it's not super telling
when it comes to your overall health I
think and I'm not a medical doctor so I
don't you know diagnose uh you know or
or or talk about individuals you know
risk for heart disease or anything like
that but yes I think the the particle
number generally speaking gives you a
better sense of the recycling Machinery
in the body and how effectively your
liver is is recycling lipids like LDL
cholesterol which if allowed to back up
in the blood and linger in the blood for
too long it's more prone to oxidation
it's more prone to becoming a small and
dense particle that can more easily get
stuck to the endothelium which is the
lining of your blood vessels and then
form what ultimately becomes a foam cell
and that's the beginning of an you know
atherogenic plaque but
cholesterol is actually used to create
bile acids which is how we digest and
assimilate fats through the digestive
tract and your liver uses cholesterol
that it sucks out from circulation to
create these bile acids and it just gets
squirted essentially by your gallbladder
into your GI tract and when you consume
certain types of fiber
um I've actually become interested in in
psyllium husk because psyllium husk has
been shown to actually do this it's able
to sequester cholesterol so they can't
be reabsorbed back in
um to circulation at the lower end of
the small intestine and that's the exact
same mechanism by which fiber can help
us better excrete environmental toxins I
think it's also one of the reasons
because the cholesterol grabs it and
then the fiber grabs the cholesterol
because the fiber just grabs the bile
the bile acids which contain these
toxins so it basically disallows for the
reabsorption of toxins that are
contained in the bile and I think it's
probably one of the reasons why dietary
fiber consumption is associated with
reduced risk for certain cancers so
breast cancer is one of them eating more
vegetables allows because the toxin is
not reabsorbed into the body yeah
interesting yeah so just when I was
going to give up all vegetables and I'm
not just go carnivore dude I'm a lazy
carnivore so I don't go out of my way to
avoid things so I'll have stuff like
avocado
um I'll have if I'm at a restaurant
there's some delicious broccoli I'll
have that because I dig broccoli or
brussels sprouts I'll have that but I I
easily will go a week 10 days without
any vegetable intake whatsoever
that's not quite true almost every day I
have unsweetened coconut
that's true I have pecans almost every
day
so I get that but it's not really not
flexible yeah um so not fully carnivore
like I said it's lazy but I'll say that
I don't know 80 of my calories come from
red meat just to really freak people out
yeah
um I eat a lot of red meat too but I
also eat a lot of vegetables I think
that's where I'm like this is the one
thing like normally when people like oh
there's so much conflicting information
I'm like yeah yeah but like sift through
it you'll find that people say like a
lot of the same things but this one like
people go back and forth very
convincingly I might add from the camp
of no no vegetables hey they're stuck
their only defense mechanism is to
develop these toxins and eating them
you're eating the toxins and that's why
cultures have done things like
um you know take the husk off or the
skin or make sure that the seeds are
absent or soak things or you know
pressure cook whatever the hell the
answer is to detox by the stuff yeah I
think that there's there's definitely
some truth in there but sulforaphane
which is what we're talking about before
is one of those chemicals it's an insect
anti-fedent that's there literally to
protect this the plant against predation
by Fungus by Critters and things like
that in fact sulforaphane is only
created when you chew the raw plant
because it actually doesn't exist
endogenously in the plant it's created
via the enzymatic conversion of a
compound in the plant cell in a certain
cell compartment called uh glucoraphanin
it's a glucosinolate compound and an
enzyme which is found in another
compartment in the cell called
myrosinase so only when you chew the raw
plant which is what a critter would do
essentially do these two compounds get
to combine in your mouth and in your
digestive tract to create sulforaphane
which is this mildly toxic compound
that uh in US because we're so robust
come in comparison to our fungus right
uh or or an insect for that matter
um it actually works to stimulate
um detox Pathways in our body because it
is a mild toxin so how does that
simulate detox if it's a mild toxin I
get a hermetic response where a little
bit of bad is good but how is it
actually detoxing well
because it it's basically it's that
hormetic response it's a Xeno hormetic
compound that meaning it's a compound
from outside that we ingest that is not
you know it's not a nutrient it's not a
macronutrient or a micronutrient it's a
plant you know insecticide essentially
that do you when when you talk hormetic
response so this is one of those where
like we'll hit a point where it goes
into black box territory for me where I
can give you the it's hermetic the body
like responds to a mild stressor by
getting stronger but I don't actually
know what the [ __ ] is happening yeah do
you know what is happening in a hormetic
response is it vary depending on what
the thing is or are there like your
breakdown of rapamycin and mtor and all
that like I can follow the train of
logic but with this yeah how does
something that releases a toxin how does
that become a detox pathway
I think because our bodies
overcompensate I think because our
bodies what by by up regulating the Nrf2
pathway creating detox compounds like
glutathione
make it water soluble or bind it so that
we can urinate yeah it basically creates
more glutathione than would be needed to
disarm this compound and that has an
overall protective you know effect on
the body right social has been shown to
to boost glutathione in the brain
um which is amazing glutathione a
decrement of glutathione is associated
with depression dementia and things like
that and then also I think that and this
is sort of a the New Frontier for
science
um it probably is also having a harmonic
effect on the microbiota like the
bacteria that live in our large
intestine and this is sort of you know
on EX relatively unexplored territory
but uh you know certain compounds like
polyphenols which also act as hormetic
stressors you know xenohermesis
um are actually not all that
bioavailable uh to us like their
absorption in through the digestive
tract into circulation is actually
pretty low and yet the consumption of
foods with polyphenols is related to all
kinds of good things in terms of your
health so it's probably not you know 100
the case that these compounds are being
absorbed and you know we're even
detoxing them but it's probably via
their you know
consumption by you know gut bacteria
that's releasing all these metabolites
that then get released into circulation
so there's all these different potential
mechanisms but uh
but that's what I think where I'm kind
of at odds with people that are on the
carnivore diet because it's like you
know
when you heat meat for when you're
creating all kinds of toxic compounds
and you know I think in isolation is
that true if you're not charring it
you're saying no matter what heat
um no I mean charring is probably the
worst but I would be a very poor excuse
for carnivore because I like to cook my
meat on a barbecue occasionally and so
inevitably you're going to be creating
heterocyclical means you're going to be
creating ages you know which is the
mylard reaction which is why meat Browns
um and and those compounds and others
you know those are not necessarily good
for you I think the benefits of eating
meat outweigh any potential negatives
that you get from those compounds
especially when you know you eat the
meat in the context of a diet that
includes vegetables and fiber and things
like that so so I think it's important
to have both
yeah that oh man that debate goes back
and forth and I find it so if I'm really
honest it's a convenience thing so
because I find it so convenient to not
have to prep vegetables
um and I so enjoy the way I feel when
I'm eating red meat
um that I go in on it pretty hard yeah I
go on go in on it pretty hard I would
say
um I mean I do think that that dietary
fiber is important uh you know and it's
like
in a way you're kind of grasping at
straws when it comes to nutrition
because you have like the gold standard
of of research that can prove cause and
effect is a randomized control trial and
we're never going to have long-term
large population rcts in humans that uh
that can prove the benefits of one diet
over another especially these Niche
diets like carnivore diets versus a more
omnivorous paleo diet
um and so I think on the one hand you
want to kind of like hedge your bets but
on the other uh you know I think that
there's enough information where we can
say that certain plant compounds are in
fact very good for us and
um and I also think in terms of like
just your overall happiness quotient and
dietary diversity uh you know and the
microbiome the microbiota I think it's
important to include these you know
these kinds of things one thing you talk
about in the book though is that just
diversity of diet is not necessarily
that important in that there's a few
things that if you go and you buy them
and just cycle around on these things
that you're probably better off yeah
what are those things what are the like
five or ten things that we should be
buying and eating
um yeah so that's a good I'm glad you
brought that up so Darius mostafarian
he's a nutrition researcher he's done a
study and I cite it in the book where
um you know most people say you know
they they parrot the old adage of eating
everything in moderation but when you
look at a person's diet people that tend
to have more varied diets tend to be
including more confectionary products
sugar sweetened Beverages and things
like that so what I found is that the
healthiest people tend to buy an hour or
narrower range of foods and just eat the
same Foods on Loop and so I try to
highlight books that are books uh foods
that have the highest capacity for
nutrient density that are going to
basically give your body what it needs
because when you look around
statistically most people aren't going
to be nutrient deficient in at least one
essential nutrient whether it's a
vitamin or mineral or you know essential
fatty acid or the like 90 of people
actually are deficiently in at least one
essential nutrient and so for me when
I'm going to the supermarket I'm really
making an effort to shop around the
perimeter
um and this is probably advice that
you've had on your on your show many
times it's not uh rocket science but I
think it's important to reiterate that
most supermarkets are designed the same
way that the fresh perishable food is
found around the perimeter and it's the
aisles where the ultra processed foods
lie in weight and those Ultra processed
foods they're tempting but we now over
consume them about 60 of the calories
that your average person consumes comes
from these kinds of foods and for all
the variety that the modern Supermarket
might present you the illusion of most
of the calories that we're consuming are
coming from just three plants wheat corn
and rice pulverized and ground into a
dust and devoid of essential nutrients
in fact they often have to be added back
in in their synthetic form that's why if
you look at most commercial breads or
wheat snacks they're all fortified with
niacin with folic acid with all these
because most people are nutrient
deficient and that's because the the
standard American diet basically
encourages that you know those nutrient
deficiencies so
I advocate for you know grass-fed beef
wild salmon dark leafy greens
cruciferous vegetables
um nuts seeds berries things like that
but in this book I think where I where I
depart from genius Foods is I talk a lot
about the value of dietary protein I
think dietary protein is crucially
important uh especially for a population
that is by and large
um overweight I think protein is a is a
crucial thing to try to prioritize at
every meal uh it's not only the most
satiating of the macronutrients you
think more than fat I think more than
fat for sure in fact there's a
hypothesis it's called the protein
leverage hypothesis that our hunger
mechanisms are basically dictated by our
requirement for amino acids so when
you're able when you eat the protein
that your body requires it basically
turns off your hunger mechanisms and
people who undereat protein tend to eat
more carbs and fat not only that but
protein is thermogenically favorable in
fact you burn what do you mean by that
well
fat has nine calories per gram yep
protein and carbs have four calories per
gram but actually protein has three
calories per gram when you consider that
about a third of um
the calories that you consume in the
form of protein are burned off via
digestion it's the thermic effect of
feeding and protein has the highest
thermic effect I have literally never
heard of that how's that possible yeah
it's basically three calories per gram
so you're saying the energy that it
takes me to run the cycle of digesting
the food yeah interesting yeah so it's
satiating so sorry as a percentage of
the calories that it has
it is harder for me essentially to
digest protein takes more energy I don't
want to use the wrong words here yes so
because obviously
[Music]
um
that's interesting so round numbers
you're saying it takes a calorie to burn
protein yeah how many calories does it
take to burn fat
uh I believe I believe it's about five
to ten percent so like a fraction of a
calorie wow so it's 25 to burn protein
what about carbs it's about 30 yeah 20
to 30 percent carbs similar to Fat it's
about five to ten percent very low yeah
interesting carbs are easily assimilated
um because glucose is important for
survival so I mean basically when you
consume a complex carbohydrate the carbs
are cleaved
um the it's been they're a complex carb
carbohydrate is basically a long chain
of glucose
um
that are essentially broken down I mean
even as you begin chewing a starch the
amylase enzyme in your saliva begins to
break down the carbohydrate and fat has
a very low thermic effect as well but
protein yeah about 30 percent
so no idea yeah it's also
um as I mentioned it's satiating uh it
fills you up and it's crucial for
maintaining and building muscle mass
which you know we know is important
um and I think people tend to you know
under appreciate protein but if you
think about it it's rare that you tend
to it's rare that you'll that you'll
overeat chicken breast or a piece of
fish that doesn't happen with protein it
happens with hyperpalatable processed
foods it happens with you know a baked
potato that you throw butter on top of
like it's very those are very easy foods
to over consume Americans by and large
are not in a good state of health right
nine in ten adults today have some
component of metabolic illness which is
a really sad statistic but it's true
nine and ten do you think that you can
be profoundly overweight and still be
healthy I think that you can be more
healthy or less healthy at a given
weight but it's it's
without controversy better to not be
obese and today why why would you say
that's without controversy because I
would say certainly in Instagram circles
that's going to be very like people are
going to push back on that I can already
feel them typing in the comments as we
speak
um so
in what way is that incontrovertible
well obesity is not healthy
um it's a disease
and I think today we have a number of
different sort of voices that are coming
at us that are trying to obfuscate the
reality of the fact that obesity is a
disease now it is associated with the
onset or worsening of non-communicable
chronic conditions like type 2 diabetes
your risk for developing type 2 diabetes
is dramatically higher if you're obese
cardiovascular disease it's not good for
your joints it's an inflammatory
condition
um neurodegenerative disease so it's
it's by and large not healthy that being
said I think it's a positive thing that
we're seeing people at different stages
on their fitness journey today
um but to point to somebody who is obese
and uh
try to put a spin on it as if that's an
aspirational state to be I completely
disagree with that and I would say that
all of the you know most credentialed
medical experts
um would also corroborate that
um that being said beauty is subjective
right so to conflate Health and Beauty I
don't think is is smart I think that we
should all practice self-love there
shouldn't be any shame attached uh to
obesity we should we should be
encouraging yeah we should be
encouraging people
um to you know to to shift their body at
any stage to a more healthy State and
it's also true I should add that you
can't really tell much about a person
based on how they look from the outside
and you can also be unhealthy and
underweight which is it which is a major
medical problem but today for the first
time in human history we have more
overweight people walking the Earth and
underweight and and by and large people
are being taken down by these kinds of
diseases of civilization diseases that
are that are essentially driven by being
undernourished and overfed and I think
of the foundation of this this epidemic
where by the year 2030 one in two people
are going to be not just overweight but
obese right
are Ultra Ultra processed food products
that by and large we over consume today
your average American today derives 60
of their calories from Ultra processed
foods these are the foods that line our
Supermarket aisles so just to make it
really simple for the audience you know
our supermarkets tend to be designed the
same way it's the perishable fresh food
that tend to be around the perimeter the
aisles have all the Shelf stable
convenience foods that are minimally
satiating highly calorically dense and
Hyper palatable so those three factors
make those kinds of foods particularly
when they're all you have access to
a recipe for disaster
and so it's it's driving disease I think
in a major way and when it comes to the
food the kinds of things that people
should be should should learn how to
identify and thus avoid I think we have
to all be more mindful of the added
sugar epidemic added sugar is Insidious
today it's in everything it's in it's in
sauces it's in coffee beverages right we
go to coffee chains for a cup of coffee
we end up drinking dessert your average
person today is consuming 77 grams of
added sugar every single day so just to
visualize that added sugar so this is
sugar for which we have no biological
necessity no biological need it's the
sugar that food manufacturers are
pumping into these Ultra processed food
products is there some amount of sugar
in that product that's not considered
added sugar or every gram of sugar in
that is added sugar yeah if you were to
look at the nutrition facts label label
of an apple it would say zero grams of
added sugar but an apple a honey crisp
apple has about 24 grams of of sugar and
it's not added but the sugar in an apple
for example is bound to the food Matrix
which includes fiber it includes
polyphenols lots of water so it's highly
self-limiting and that's not the case
with these Ultra processed food products
we don't Tire of eating them there was a
seminal study published in 2018 funded
by the NIH that showed us when you give
adults access to an ultra processed food
diet and and you and you tell them to
basically eat until you're full eat
until you're satisfied they end up
eating
to a calorie surplus of about 500
additional calories and that I think
goes back to the fact that these foods
are minimally satiating and added sugar
in particular we don't Tire of eating it
we have let's get into why Sugar's so
bad so you know we started this by
saying that one I want to reinforce many
people that I love I grew up in a
morbidly obese family so when I say that
I don't pass judgment on them love them
to death
but want to see them live as long as
possible I'd love to know if anybody's
ever done a study of like
um what age do we see what BMI
because I'm guessing that as you get
older the BMI just starts dropping
dropping dropping dropping dropping
until you basically you don't see obese
90 year olds right yeah that's true it's
really there's something fascinating
there in terms of it's what it does to
longevity so going from that standpoint
that I'm guessing that basically
everything that we're going to strip out
of people's diet is because it causes
some variation of metabolic disease
we're making the base assumption that
our North star's longevity Health span
and call it performance yes yeah okay so
um if we're knowing that we're marching
towards that and sugar is the first
thing that we strip out give it to me at
a biological level why are we stripping
sugar what's it doing metabolically
that's gonna really ruin our ability to
live for a long time in a healthy way
and at high performance
well I think that the the perception
around sugar has sort of evolved which
is which is a very positive thing I
don't I don't necessarily think that a
little bit here and there is toxic in
any sense I don't think that sugar is
the sole Smoking Gun for the Obesity
crisis there's nothing inherently
fattening about sugar but it's yeah I
mean well I mean the dose makes the
poison or I would say that the reason
why sugar plays a role added sugar plays
a role in the in the Obesity epidemic is
because we don't Tire of consuming it
and it's addition to ultra processed
food products make contribute to the
characteristic known as Hyper
palatability so it makes those Foods
prone to over consumption all right is
hyper palatability the problem or is
there another mechanism that kicks in so
here's a theory I forget exactly who put
this forward but basically hey fruit
comes around in the fall fructose is
designed to make you fat it basically
makes my chondria less efficient on
purpose you start kicking off all of
this basically you're wasting energy
raising your body temperature uncoupling
something and it lets off heat and
you're doing all of that in conjunction
with making your cells more insulin
resistant so that you're basically
storing more of the glucose in your
bloodstream so it's not basically
getting out of your body or even getting
shoved into your fat cells because you
want to keep your fat cells the way that
they are you even want to store some of
the glucose in the bloodstream and
you're doing all of that trying to give
your body the signal to store store and
the reason that worked from a longevity
standpoint is you're more likely to
survive the winter yes and so you've got
sugar not only as a hyper palatability
thing but that it's also a signaling
molecule telling your body winter is
coming store the [ __ ] up
um
yeah yeah no it's true so we have to we
have to kind of reconcile two truths
here so the first truth is that
um sugar when sugar is present in the
blood when our blood sugar becomes
elevated it tells our pancreas basically
to secrete the hormone insulin which is
the fat storage hormone it's secreted
basically and it's and it serves two
essential roles one is to shuttle
glucose into you know into the cells
that that need it right so your
musculature your skeletal muscle your
liver these are the only places really
that are able to store sugar in the body
and they store it for a good reason
because they use it as an energy source
right when you're doing high intensity
anaerobic exercise your muscles require
stored glucose in the form of glycogen
to perform that high intensity work the
second function that insulin serves is
it gets the sugar out of your blood
because when you when your blood sugar
is chronically elevated that's toxic
it's actually glucotoxic we know that
chronically elevated blood sugar damages
your blood vessels it glycates your your
red blood cells right that's something
that you can measure with a test called
the hemoglobin A1c and Insulin also
turns your fat cells into a one-way
valve so it prevents lipolysis which is
the release of free fatty acids from
your fat tissue basically and that does
serve a purpose of helping to partition
energy so that when when sugar is
available our muscles are burning sugar
as a per as opposed to burning fat so it
does block the burning of fat
however if you're in a if your body is
in a calorie deficit it knows that
you've got energy stored in your fat
tissue and so it's going to be able to
circumvent the fact that insulin
typically acts like a one-way valve on
your on your fat cells so when insulin
is elevated calories can flow into the
Vats into the fat cell but they can't
flow out
um
but again if you are if your body is
starving for energy if you're in a
calorie deficit insulin is going to come
down
and those calories are going to be
released anyway so I think even if you
have glucose in your bloodstream yeah I
mean think look at bodybuilders who eat
massive amounts of carbohydrates while
in a calorie deficit they are still able
to get shredded right so insulin you
need elevated insulin to store fat
but if you're in a calorie if you're in
an energy deficit your body is going to
be able to draw those calories
regardless right so now then let's look
at other qualities of sugar so I hear a
lot of calories a calorie and hey look
at the guy the twinkie guy ends up
losing fat get it you just explained why
but
if my cells are made of the things that
I eat am I really by doing a Twinkie
diet or something like that where I'm
eating you know different oils I'm
eating trans fats whatever am I doing
damage to my body at a cellular level
that might not be detectable from just
looking at me and seeing that I'm either
in shape or Not In Shape yeah so I don't
want people to think that I'm promoting
a high sugar diet because again sugar
it's got this hyper palatable quality
also thanks to really robust
meta-analyzes we see that people healthy
individuals who are on high glycemic
index diets so diets that are very
sugary right diets that contain a lot of
refined grain products are at are at
increased risk of developing type 2
diabetes so we know that chronic
elevations of blood sugar even if you're
if you're young and healthy is not good
it's not good to your metabolic system
it glycates the proteins in your body
and I'm I have this hypothesis that
uh it's really lifetime exposure of
glucose
um that over the long term is is
damaging
um and lifetime exposure basically
implies the area under the curve of all
of the you know all of the glycemic
excursions that your body has seen over
the years right so I think that's one
reason to reduce glycemic variability
also we know that when we eat high sugar
when we ingest a high sugar bolus it
tends to drop our blood sugar because
again insulin it removes sugar from the
blood but the way that it works the
pancreas is not an instrument of
precision it functions more like a blunt
tool so for somebody that's eating a lot
of sugar it actually can send your sugar
your blood sugar below Baseline which
can trigger anxiety in people who are
prone to it it can leave you feeling
hangry right
consuming lots of sugar also outside of
the conversation regarding weight which
again is ultimately
um dictated by energy balance
consuming a high sugar bolus can also
elevate your blood pressure which we
know is a risk factor for
neurodegeneration we've seen that one
high sugar bolus about 75 grams of sugar
can cause your systolic blood pressure
to elevate for two hours post ingestion
which is no bueno we've also seen that a
high sugar bolus can reduce testosterone
by about 25 percent which also persists
for two hours yeah why any guesses why
we'd have an evolutionary response to
Sugar that lowers our testosterone
that's a good question I'm not I'm not
sure although I would
you know I think that when we see an
onslaught of sugar in the blood
particularly from in these in these
clinical studies they're using the these
sugary beverages oftentimes from what
are called oral glucose tolerance tests
there's no a hunter-gatherer would have
never had access to that kind of rapidly
digested sugar Deluge right because we
would have had fruit and our fruit as
hunter-gatherers would have been a
fraction as sweet as they are today but
the notion of fruit juice or a sugary
High glute 75 gram glucose beverage for
example didn't exist
um so I think what it does it sends our
body into a stress State
um and so that's I think one of the
reasons why we see the elevation of
blood pressure and I would also assume
because stress can reduce testosterone I
would I would guess that that's one of
the mechanisms there as well so that's
really interesting yeah it's um I mean
we are seeing a decline in testosterone
among that's in general though in
general yeah are we I've always assumed
that's multifactorial that's poor diet
that's adding on weight that's uh some
of the societal things that are
happening that's uh BPA all of the above
it's like a big well all of the above
but as I mentioned in that study where
they saw a 25 reduction in testosterone
they used a 75 gram sugar bolus right as
I mentioned your average adult today
consumes 77 grams of added sugar wow
every single day so they're consuming
that every day so yeah the added the
added sugar thing I think is uh it's a
problem now again if you have a big
calorie budget if you're a bodybuilder
if you're
um you know if you're if you're burning
an uh an intense amount of calories on a
daily basis you do have a discretionary
caloric budget but for your average
person again today your average person
is overweight bordering on Obesity
um has some component of metabolic
illness glucose dysregulation I would
say that being being a sleuth and being
able to identify added sugar and then
and then cut that out or at least
minimize your consumption of it I think
you'd be doing your health major favors
so one more question along that so let's
say that I'm a bodybuilder I'm yoked
huge muscle mass and I am burning a ton
of calories I'm using my muscles a lot
and I live for the next 30 years on a
high sugar diet by calorie but I live in
a caloric deficit so I still look
awesome six-pack abs I'm lean do you
think that I'm going to be getting
glycated tissues like is there am I
paying a price internally even though
I'm lean if I were to do it for that
long I don't think anybody's done that
study but just curious so there's a
there's a debate actually raging right
now
um in the in the sort of nutrition
Community as to whether or not
um chronic glucose spikes which yield
chronic insulin spikes
is at the etiology of insulin resistance
or whether it's purely uh uh and sort of
energy toxicity scenario
um what we do see is that insulin
resistance precedes chronically elevated
insulin by sometimes 10 years so it
might be the case that those chronic
spikes of insulin
um wrought by chronically eating you
know high sugar regardless of where you
are with your calories might actually
cause somebody to develop insulin
tolerance because cells develop a
tolerance to chemicals that they are
chronically exposed to right and so if
we're chronically exposing ourselves our
tissues to high levels of insulin via
our diets regardless of where you know
whether or not we're in a calorie
deficit or Surplus then they might they
might theoretically develop this the
sort of insulin resistance and there is
a debate about that so you know I'm my
get my best guess would be
because of these meta-analyzes that are
showing that high glycemic diets will
will predispose us to developing type 2
diabetes I think it's best to really
minimize glycemic variability to know
um you know the kinds of foods that are
going to cause your your blood sugar to
go through the roof and then to to
minimize them and to use glucose
yielding starches as a as a performance
enhancing tool really
um
and I you know I eat starches I eat
sweet potatoes and and you know the
occasional grain
um but I am ultimately looking to make
sure that I'm keeping my blood sugar
stable because you know whenever your
blood sugar is elevated you're you are
essentially glycating the proteins in
your body you're damaging the proteins
it's this it's this sort of
non-enzymatic reaction between
sugar in your blood and protein and it
essentially drives Decay and damage
also when your body's in a low insulin
State you're allowing for Gene Pathways
to to activate that are associated with
longevity like foxo3 certain one so
these are all very complicated sort of
Gene Pathways but
um we know that chronically high levels
of insulin are sort of like in
opposition to those to those Pathways
all right so we've got sugar yeah we're
not going to mess around with that uh
what else are we removing from our diet
are we messing with dairy where are we
out on that oh man I love this question
so I've actually my my views on on Dairy
have evolved
um recently Dairy is when you look at a
glass of milk it's a solution of water
and fat right but the fat doesn't stay
at the top right left right let's have
some sugar in there oh there is lactose
yeah there is a natural source of it is
a natural source of sugar but
um it's not like oil and water right the
fat globules are suspended in the
solution of of essentially 95 water
which is what milk is right
the triglycerides in Dairy are bound by
A lipoprotein essentially like you know
you've heard of lipoproteins like your
LDL cholesterol
milk is comprised of lipoproteins called
milk fat globule membrane and these
globules are comprised of proteins like
sphingomyelin which is an important
structural component of of myelin right
the myelin sheath in our brains it's
comprised of phosphatidylcholine so I
think that actually there's a lot of
good stuff to be had in full fat Dairy
and it also these globules in milk
affect the way our bodies respond to
them so Dairy is unique among fat
containing foods in that it's got a
higher proportion of saturated fat than
any other food so if you look at any
natural fact
yeah steak is actually about 50 percent
monounsaturated fat and you've got a
fair amount of polyunsaturated fat and
steak particularly grain-fed steak and
then you actually have a relatively
small proportion of saturated fat in the
steak even though it gets like people
are like oh my God the saturated fat and
steak
um Dairy has a much higher proportion of
saturated fat and yet paradoxically we
see that people who consume full fat
Dairy tend to have better cardiovascular
health better metabolic health
and I think it's due to the the presence
of this milk fat globule membrane so my
hypothesis is that it's really good for
um brain health if you can tolerate
Dairy so a lot of people are lactose
intolerant but um if you think about it
when a baby is born especially a human
baby right a human baby continues its
development in the world it's actually
sometimes referred to as the fourth
trimester of development and
um breast milk is loaded with these
globule with these globules right that
must be there in at least in some way to
support the development of the brain
which is undergoing rapid organization
and growth
um during the time in which a baby is is
feeding right so
um so I've actually I've become a big
fan of full fat Dairy I think it's a
great a great food but I will offer the
caveat and this is another area with
regard to Dairy Where My Views have
evolved
um and and uh and we could also even
perhaps call this a food that I've that
I would recommend avoiding for some
um and I know I'm gonna get some hate
from the Paleo Community for this but uh
I think that butter is actually a food
that's worth
um relegating to uh like the Indulgence
category and the reason for that is that
when first of all butter is a man-made
product Dairy is made by Nature right
but butter is made by people and
um when you churn cream
you disrupt the milk fat globule
membrane so this is one of the reasons
why if you melt butter and you put it in
on in in some water it flows to the top
so that globule membrane has been
disrupted and I think that's one of the
reasons why you see in clinical studies
that when you feed people either cream
or butter they both start out as cream
right I mean cream is cream obviously
but butter starts out as cream butter
seems to have an adverse effect on blood
lipids whereas cream doesn't so it's
this it's the presence of this like milk
fat globule membrane that I think makes
uh
the fat in full fat Dairy very healthy
um but it's disruption I think is what
can lead to adverse a sort of adverse
lipid response
um in some to to butter when you say an
adverse lipid response you're saying I
eat the butter and it changes the
composition or the amount of the lipids
in my blood yes so like it'll raise like
LDL cholesterol and actually the
mechanism by which saturated fat raises
LDL
um is is quite interesting it reduces
availability of the LDL receptor on on
liver cells on hepatocytes so the way
that your body works it's then it's like
a very elegant plumbing system your
liver sends out these apob containing
particles lipoproteins right like milk
fat Global membrane but in your blood
LDL vldl
what have you and the idea is before
lung you want the liver to suck those
particles back up right the liver will
dismantle them use the cholesterol to
create bile acids for example
um and it relies on the availability of
these they're literally called the LDL
receptors on the surface of the liver
and saturated fat actually rate causes
an elevation of LDL cholesterol in the
blood in the blood because it's blocking
the uptake yes in the liver interesting
yeah and not all saturated fatty acids
do this I should add so I mean there's
you know Nuance I think
um
we've heard for many years and and
something that continues to be echoed by
uh particularly the vegan Community is
that saturated fat is bad but a fat is
not a fat just like a carb is not a
carbon a protein it's not a protein
um certain saturated fats do do this uh
more than others and so it seems to be
the case that butter
um
reduces availability of this of the LDL
receptor whereas other full fat dairy
products don't which is which is
fascinating
so why then has Dairy been on
everybody's Hit List in terms of
creating problems is it just that so
many people are lactose intolerant or is
there some other element to Dairy that
creates other problems you know that's a
really great question I think it has to
do with the I mean many people are
lactose intolerant I think there's a big
push now towards plant-based diets
there's a lot of money behind it right a
push towards the consumption of fake
meat products right which which I like
to call the equivalent of human pet food
you know it's like Ultra processed junk
but also and I I drink this stuff
sometimes but like almond milk and
macadamia nut milk all these all these
like plant-based milks there's a lot of
money going into them so there's this
big push away from dairy milk
um and also admittedly like in the in
the Wellness Community Dairy has been
demonized for some time people will say
that it's inflammatory
um meta-analyzes actually show that that
for most people Dairy is actually not
inflammatory was that the impetus for
pushing deeper into the topic yeah to be
honest I mean you know what it takes
today to live a healthy a long and
healthy life it's so multifaceted uh and
nutrition is definitely it plays a major
a major role in that regard but it's
just one part of the puzzle and so
whereas genius Foods my first book I
consider to be sort of the ultimate
nutritional care manual for the human
brain
um having a brain that functions as well
as it ought to requires a lot more than
just healthy eating today unfortunately
I mean I wish it was as easy as eating
you know a handful of blueberries and
wild salmon and uh you know some nuts
here and there but actually you know the
modern world is sort of like the Hunger
Games for for the human brain I know you
love the movie references and uh we're
just like we're being attacked from
every which way from you know the the
industrial chemicals which we are
confronted with on a daily basis many of
which we've we've been exposed to for
the entirety of Our Lives to the fact
that's you know Leisure Time physical
activity is an all-time low to the fact
that our food supply has become
saturated with ultra processed foods to
the fact that our circadian clocks are
completely out of whack so the genius
life I really explore all of the facets
of what it takes to live healthy I
include nutrition and diet as well but
it's really packed with sort of the the
little changes that you can make in your
day-to-day life that are going to have
big wins in terms of your health when
you were doing the research what was
something that really surprised you
well I think it was kind of uh you know
it was scary the degree to which
um the odds are stacked against the
average human and and that was very
eye-opening but it was also something
Stacks the odds against us well just the
fact that you know whether it's access
to healthy food or air pollution or you
know the industrial chemicals that we
use to clean or even create our
domiciles you know our homes
um we're just we're inundated with with
exposures that are not doing our biology
any favors
um so those are the that's what I mean I
mean today uh
it's it's frightening when you look
around you see people that are you know
struggling with overweight with being
obese
um 66 of the population is either
overweight or obese half of the
population is either pre-diabetic or has
Type 2 diabetes which we know both of
those conditions is actually a late
marker for chronically elevated insulin
or hyperinsulinemia which can go on for
years if not decades before your blood
sugar actually starts to inch up you
know to a degree that a doctor would
measure it
um so
you know
people are not well
um if you live to the age of 85 you have
a one in two chance of being diagnosed
with Alzheimer's disease
certain cancers are increasing in their
frequency in the 1960s a woman's
lifetime risk of developing breast
cancer was one in 20. today it's about
one in eight so there's obviously been a
mutation in our environments our genes
haven't changed all that much and yet
the default state for any organism is
Health but you look around and people
are not healthy people are not feeling
well when you look in the mirror I mean
I want your listeners to kind of
introspect for a minute and ask whether
or not you feel healthy whether or not
you feel viral and vital and well and I
wrote this book and I became obsessed
with with this topic and really
communicating this message to any
anybody who will listen ultimately
because my mom was so sick and I feel in
many ways that she was the canary in the
coal mine for the modern way of life
reading the book I didn't realize that
she died of cancer so I knew obviously
from your last book from talking to you
that she had dementia early which is
[ __ ] terrifying uh but then to hear
that she got cancer on top of that is
pretty gnarly
um
if you like going through that process
like what was that like as you're
researching the book and you're
obviously getting clues as to what is uh
bombarding her how do you process
through that how do you think about that
yeah I mean all I have are hypotheses so
I'll never claim to know what was the
cause of either my mom's dementia which
she developed at a very young age at the
age of 58 or the fact that over Labor
Day of 2018 she was diagnosed with
pancreatic cancer
um Ironically in both instances with
both diagnoses what I experienced in
every doctor's office that I you know
went to with my mom was diagnosed in
adios uh in in both scenarios the
treatment options that were
afforded to my mom were were very
limited
um with dementia you know I mean anybody
with a loved one with dementia will tell
you that you get prescribed these
biochemical Band-Aids and they do very
little in terms of disease management
they certainly have no disease modifying
effect my mom was on you know all of the
drugs that were available to her for her
for her memory function
and then my mom happened to have a
particularly gnarly form of cancer she
developed pancreatic cancer and we
realized this when over Labor Day she
turned yellow
which is um you know if you turn yet you
can turn yellow there's there's probably
two major reasons why a person would
turn yellow one is if you're eating too
much beta-carotene uh and then your skin
turns yellow but not the eyes the the
whites of your eyes then there's another
condition called jaundice which is when
your skin and your eyes turn yellow and
that's because bilirubin which is the
pigment that is released into your
digestive tract which gives stool its
color that that dark yellow almost
brownish color
isn't able to flush out and then backs
up it seeps into your skin it seeps into
the whites of your eyes and that can be
caused by generally speaking one of two
conditions one a gallstone
um and that's what we were all praying
that my mom had but when they did the
MRI of my mom's abdomen what it turns
out she actually had was a tumor on her
pancreas that was pressing into her bile
duct
and pancreatic cancer I believe 90
something percent of the time is
diagnosed when it's already in an
advanced stage and that was certainly
true for my mom when it was diagnosed
for my mom she was already in stage four
which means that the cancer had already
spread they found lesions on her liver
and
you know my mom's quality of life at
that point was already so degraded due
to the dementia and the and the
parkinsonian symptoms that she also had
the movement symptoms the stiffness
but still I thought that I was going to
have my mom you know you never you never
think to yourself that you're that your
mom is not going to be here
um you know in in any way that's you
know that that transmits the urgency of
a terminal illness
and when my mom was diagnosed over Labor
Day
because it was already in stage four and
because my mom was already so ill with
her dementia there was nothing that they
could offer her and so they gave us a
prognosis of three to six months
immediately she went into hospice care
was she able to like grasp what was
happening
uh
you know it's it's really hard to say
she
the Cog the the cognition was really
strange you know constrained
um at that stage
she there were a few Windows of Lucidity
I I remember clear as day you know one
day when they did the surgery
to unblock the bile duct they put a
stent in so that the bilirubin can then
go into the you know can can properly
drain into the GI tract
after that before that surgery
she could barely speak
um there was there was basically no
communication and you know her cognition
really was um was affected to a
significant degree the other thing is
that bile
is how we and we could talk about this
later in the episode is how one of the
major routes of excretion of toxins so
if you have dementia and then you have
this bilirubin back up into the blood
it's basically it's it's hyper toxic to
the brain and so when they extended that
bile duct and suddenly you know her
color began to return to normal there
was like a day or two where she seemed
almost normal it was shocking
um
but ironically we
we didn't
tell her about the diagnosis really in
the you know in that in those immediate
um hours following the following the
diagnosis because
we wanted to be sure that it was what it
was and they
when they do a diagnosis with MRI it's
not
um it's not certain until they they do a
biopsy in my mom's case they kind of
they thought that it was you know that
that it was pretty clear
but
we were just so sensitive to to my mom
and the mood and life had just become so
difficult for her and all of us
that we wanted to be sure that it was
what it was and so we had to wait for
the biopsy
um you know they took cells when they
performed that that stenting procedure
and lo and behold you know a week or two
later
confirmed that it was cancer and
um that's when we told my mom and when
we told my mom it was heartbreaking I
don't think that she
she she understood what she had but it
didn't hit her the way that it would hit
you or I
um she made a couple of comments you
know that were just truly heartbreaking
I mean
how do you tell you know your mom that
that she's dying like that's the most
difficult conversation that I think any
human being can possibly have or or any
loved one for that matter I mean it's
just inconceivable like the whole the
whole thing to me to this day is still
unbelievable I can't I can't believe it
it feels like a nightmare it doesn't
feel like real life
um
but we uh yeah we we told her and her
cognition
you know
started to begin a slow and gradual
decline again
um
she made a comment once that just you
know it I'll never forget it she
it was a testament to her you know
to how much she loved me and my brothers
I have two younger brothers
um
but it's also and and how much she loved
us but it just so clearly shows you how
evil dementia can be she said something
you know after the after the after we
told her about the diagnosis she started
crying and she she said what am I going
to do without you guys
as if we were right going somewhere you
know not it was clear that it wasn't
clicking or or that something was being
Lost in Translation because you know it
it sounded like we were going somewhere
but in reality you know she was going
somewhere and I was thinking in the back
of my head what are you going to do
without us what the f are we going to do
without you
and um and yeah it was I mean that was
those were the worst three months of my
entire life I mean I can't even it was
just awful it was wrought with pain and
you know the the palliative care is just
you know being there for somebody in
that condition and having to to drop you
know
you know take a dropper of morphine and
administer it to it it's just like it's
it's awful I don't think human beings
should have to
deal with that I mean I you know it made
me into you know more interested in um
physician-assisted suicide and things
like that because not that not that not
that we would have pulled that trigger
but the end the very end it was just it
was terrible it was awful dude so my
cousin died of cancer really aggressive
cancer he was super like mid-20s
and I went to see him a couple days
before he died and I thought the same
thing I'm sitting there in the hospital
and I I was impressed because his
mentality was I will never give up not
to the bitter friend and I respect that
dude I respect that that's my mindset
like all the way get across the Finish
Line do whatever the [ __ ] takes and I'm
watching him though literally struggle
for every single breath of error
and I'm just asking like where is this
going and at what point do you say
actually what I want is peace I want to
rest and I get it like when there's any
element of maybe maybe if I just fight
hard enough I can pull out of this
and like you said I don't know would I
pull the trigger I I really think in my
own case I would and when I look at and
I don't know
um enough about Robin Williams case to
know how deep he was into the disease
and all that but like I kind of get it
man like there there's just no joy to be
had at the end for anybody and at some
point to me like I'm not a I'm not a
person who thinks that
um if all that's left is Extreme
suffering that the life still makes
sense I think that's a choice the person
should get to make for themselves 100
like I would never make that decision
for somebody else but [ __ ] me man for my
own sake if I had been in his position
watching it I'd be like yeah this is a
no-brainer like I want to kiss everybody
goodbye I want to have one last laugh
and and thank you but good night like
that that is just the only thing that
makes sense to me having witnessed that
now going through it maybe I'll feel
different maybe like that sense of
fighting is the right answer but whoa
like from the outside it looked super
super gnarly it's super gnarly I mean
there are things you see that that you
just change you you know I mean the fact
that I that I'm not more traumatized
from it uh is is almost a shock because
it's just you witness things that are so
barbaric so inhuman
um
I mean to I was there with my mom until
until the end to witness somebody dying
and not just somebody but the person who
you love more than anybody any human
being on Earth
um fade away it's just uh
it's gutting to the nth degree there's
really there's really no words and you
know the hospice nurses that worked with
my mom they were Angels they were
amazing but
um it it reaffirmed to me the value of
taking care of yourself while you can
you know in the words of John F Kennedy
the time to fix the roof is when the sun
is shining because when you're sick
it's just it's a lot harder to undo
years of of you know damage that
oftentimes we do to ourselves I mean not
all the damage is is something that we
have agency over as I mentioned you know
the modern world we're flush up against
Myriad industrial chemicals that are
probably not helping the cause but you
really have to do what you can while
you're you're young and healthy
um to avert these kinds of conditions
and
it's been just this lifelong journey of
trying to unravel what it was about my
mom's life my mom's circumstances that
led to her becoming so ill was she just
a genetic fluke that she was so ill for
so long I don't think so I mean I don't
I you know and I hope not because that
would that wouldn't bode well very well
for my health but
um
but yeah I mean I think I think we
really ought to do what we can and so
that's why I've dedicated myself to
learning and communicating as best as I
can these principles yeah and I want to
hear how you sort of rebound from that
and if if you're doubling down in the
work and that's a way out because I had
a my roommate former roommate from
college
he was on a path it was really
interesting to see where he was going to
go producing film like the whole nine
and then his mom got a brain tumor and
in the removal of the brain tumor she
basically developed dementia like
symptoms
and was type 2 diabetic and watching him
go through that it it changed him so
fundamentally and he he 180 on his life
just changed everything up moved took a
totally different path and
he when he was going through it like he
had this daily heartbreak so she's got
dementia so she doesn't remember
anything but she's type 2 diabetic so
she he has to be on her about what she's
eating and he was like dude you can't
imagine what it's like every day to have
to retell my mom that she's a type 2
diabetic and that she can't have the
things that she wants because she keeps
coming and asking for a glass of orange
juice or whatever and he's like every
day I have to tell her again that she
can't have it
and it was like
you know you just get to the point where
you're asking that same fundamental
question at what point is her quality of
life so low that none of this makes
sense anymore and to watch him go
through that like you said to see the
person you love most in the world fading
away like
it's gnarly and so
I I lost touch with him at that point he
he just went off the radar this is all
pre-social media
um so I'm curious like as you're going
through that
how do you rebuild like what is your
coping mechanism been
it's been I'm so great you know I mean
people love to bash on social media but
the fact that I have that I've been so
transparent and open about my
motivations and
um my story with my followers the fact
that that they were there to to send
feedback and love and this you know this
outpouring of love I really felt it um
when when I was going through that and
my mom passed away
I have channeled a lot of the The Angst
about losing my mom into my work I'm
very lucky that I got to do that that I
get to write about it that I get to
um be that I get to feel creatively
expressed in many ways although my work
is about
health and science and nutrition and all
that stuff I also feel very much like an
artist and I think what artists are is
that they you know what they do is they
transmute pain they take pain and they
turn it into something meaningful
um you know and I've done that pretty
much my whole life I've been you know
when I went through heartbreak uh in in
I think it was around 2008 I uh it
inspired me to become a musician because
I found that music was a great way to to
communicate the pain that I was feeling
in regards to my heart being broken
when
my mom started going through this the
best way that I that I knew to
to deal with it in a way that made me
feel like this wasn't all going to be in
vain
was to use it to help and Inspire other
people to live healthier and to learn
more about their bodies about their
biology and
my intention really has never been to to
be called an expert a health expert or
anything like that it was really to be
an example for people because I don't
believe that you need to be a PhD or an
MD or a registered dietitian to
understand how your body works and how
you interact you know how your food
interacts with your biology and how
light interacts with your biology and
how exercise and sleep and you know all
these things that are so crucial when it
comes to Living Well I think it's a
disservice to humanity Humanity to
expect these
um
these these incredible knowledge bases
that we have thanks to science to be
siled off into their respective
um you know academic fields and so
my own curiosity my own thirst for
knowledge about these topics especially
in the wake of my mom's sickness and
ultimately her passing
um it's I've just I've been for the past
you know better part of of a decade
insatiable about trying to understand
why this would have happened to her and
and what I could do to prevent it from
happening to myself so that's been a
really great Outlet
um
it's uh it's sort of like an
intellectual punching bag you know
because science is so complex it's so
nuanced and it's so dense and and
there's so much to learn you know and
there's just like there's no way that
you're going to be able to understand
everything but trying to trying to wrap
your head around the conceptual vastness
of of our biology and and and and health
as a whole it's a
it's a project
um that you know that it just it doesn't
end and so it's been to be able to pour
myself into that and to be able to do it
now professionally
um for a living it's just a I'm
eternally grateful to to people who have
supported my work and
um and yeah and I only hope that it
provides you know inspiration uh for
others
it's interesting that you call yourself
an artist because reading the book which
is dense with very useful scientific
information there were Parts in the book
where you talk about things like
rapamycin that I've heard other people
talk about be talked about in a way it
was accessible and made it easier for me
to sort of grasp and understand and mtor
and all that stuff which is super
fascinating but you make it accessible
and there was a part in the book where I
felt like the human come through into
the the whole equation where you were
talking about
diet and its impact and all that but you
said you know at the end when my mom
um was really struggling man my trips
were to the bakery and getting her
things that she loved and I thought
that's so interesting
um I'd be curious to hear like
in that like the the book I want you now
to write is the like how you deal with
this stuff because I feel like you've
dealt with that artfully your ability to
speak on it is incredible the fact that
you invited your followers in on that
journey and all that stuff
uh it was really really cool so why
because that is exactly what I would do
and I would feel a little guilty about
it but it's like if I knew the end was
nigh for someone that I cared about and
they wanted the exact thing that I
thought was problematic I'd still go to
them well yeah I mean we're that's it's
a it's a it's a really important
question to ask and it's another area
where I've just learned so much you know
about about health communication and
diet because of what I went through with
my mom so you know what you're
referencing is the fact that and I think
a lot of people in the health space and
especially in the keto Community
whenever the term cancer comes up people
are you know can be very zealous about
uh you know putting people on this
ketogenic diet which is supposed to
starve the cancer cell and the reality
is it's not that easy like cancer cells
are notorious for mutating and using
alternate energy energy substrates when
they have to
um and
you know if if you were in an earlier
stage of cancer
maybe that would be something that would
that could be potentially available to
you know Dr Walter Longo at USC is doing
you know amazing work on on the role of
fasting and how fasting can potentially
sensitize a patient uh a tumor cell or
or a tumor rather to chemotherapy while
protecting the patient so there's all
these amazing things going on in the
world of nutrition
um and and and and ketogenesis as it
relates to cancer and all that stuff but
when you have somebody who's in a later
stage of cancer they're battling against
something called cachexia which is
extreme muscle wasting
um and so for that patient
you really want to that patient what
they need most is just calories and when
a patient has no appetite well how are
you going to get them to eat unless it's
a really delicious food food you were
doing it because when I read that I
actually read it totally differently so
I assumed it was
man she just I can bring a little joy
into her world because look obviously
depending on where we're at in the
journey the answer is very different so
if it's you know somebody's just being
diagnosed and there's a shot that they
can get out of this like I'd have them
in the gym eating perfectly doing the
fasting like the whole rigmarole yeah
but once we're like yo this doesn't
there's no reversing this like we know
we're at the end then it's like hey
bring on what little Joys you can yeah
and that's what I thought you meant in
the book when you said that but you were
just trying to battle cachexia well it
was both to bring her Joy it was that I
would go to my mom's favorite
um pastry shop in New York which is
called veneros and on the Lower East
Side of Manhattan and I would buy our
cannolis and Strawberry Shortcake
because I know that those were my mom's
favorite things to eat and I knew that
there was no dietary intervention in the
world that was going to help my mom at
that point and for somebody who has no
appetite cancer patients don't have an
appetite they can barely you know eat uh
you really want to get them the foods
that are going to just provide calories
energy just so that they don't
completely waste away
I had a around that time I I learned
kind of the hard way or not the hard way
but I you know a lot of people love to
hate on insure which is uh this like
sugar slurry of you know unhealthy oils
and whatever but it's you know Ensure
is is marketed on the one hand probably
to older adults you know as a protein
supplement and for that purpose I think
that that's you know not a good product
I wouldn't I wouldn't use it for that
but on the other hand if it's a product
that's engineered to be as palatable as
possible while providing you know your
basic level of of multivitamin support
um then maybe that's going to be a
better better option than trying to cram
a protein shake down a cancer patient's
throat that's not going to be as
palatable and so I began buying
interesting man it's super interesting I
would buy my mom for example protein
shakes because I was like all right
gotta fight cachexia we gotta keep the
protein intake High because we know that
that's gonna you know help maintain
muscle which we know you know eating
higher amounts of you need first of all
protein's essential but and my mom was
barely getting any so I was you know on
the one hand I wanted her to have a
higher protein
um option but those kinds of shakes
especially when they're low carb they're
sweetened with artificial sweeteners
that are just not as palatable as sugar
unfortunately and though I would never
drink an Ensure shake and I wouldn't I
wouldn't you know recommend
it's consumption to anybody who was
healthy uh it actually it's something
that my mom enjoyed more and would drink
more of than the protein shake that I
tried to get her to drink and
so that's kind of a that's a that's a
mind really because at the end of the
day you you're trying to basically put
calories into a person's mouth and
they're they're withering away at an
unforce you know at a rate that you just
can't conceive of
um because the cancer is just so hungry
and so yeah so when I would go to the
pastry shop you know I wasn't about to
try to put my mom on a ketogenic diet
you're just you're you're past that
point
um you've you've you've reached the
escape Velocity at which point you
really just need to think about survival
you're not thinking about fighting the
cancer you're just trying to like buy
days you know weeks if you're lucky but
really days are there places in America
where assisted suicide is legal I
believe in Oregon Oregon is the one
state that I know of yeah that's
interesting that's one of those things
man I'm sure there are people that
understand sort of the way religion
Works its way through America and law
that get why it's illegal but I don't
get it like I legitimately do not
understand how like people are weird
about that if somebody if somebody
certainly of sound mind decides that's
what they want to do then
yeah I don't get how that's illegal I'm
not gonna say that I would have even
brought that up to my mom I'm you know I
don't know if she would have been into
it uh you know it's just abstracting it
from your mom like that just seems to me
like a self-evident thing that you
should be able to do that if that's what
you want to do yeah first of all you're
not going to stop people if they want to
do it they're going to do it and then
second to make them do like horrific
stupid
um I get it man I wouldn't want people
to do it I certainly wouldn't want
people to do it because it's a mood
disorder but oh man if you have a
terminal illness
well you know I mean yeah even if it was
just a few hours
earlier but then you know the the all of
the hours that I had with my mom you
know I mean I've spent many many many
hours thinking to myself since my mom's
passing how much I would have
appreciated even another second or two
with my mom so you know I'm not gonna
say that that's a that's an easy
decision to make and actually if you
think about it in a way when you start
giving higher doses of morphine I mean
that is in a way physician assisted
suicide because morphine suppresses your
respiratory system and so the more pain
there is the more morphine you start
getting I mean there's some suggestion
in the literature that uh morphine
actually accelerates
um
you know a person's a person's demise
it's just a it's a horrible drug but
it's a it's a one of the best if not the
best or it's one of the best pain
relievers that we have there are
stronger drugs but uh
so yeah it's just
it's dehumanizing and it's and it's
crazy and I'm so grateful that my mom
was able to be in her own bed
um when it when it happened and that you
know we had the hospice nurses that we
had that me and my brothers were there
for her
but it was terrible so my any and I'm
not alone so many people are struggling
with illness cancer related deaths
Alzheimer's dementia and so my heart
goes out to them it's just a it's a
terrible thing and and you know I think
we ought to
support scientific research we have to
because we're still a long way away from
knowing what causes cancer in each you
know
each cancer type alone but then in each
individual patient it's probably a
different slew of of insults that lead
to the the you know the creation and and
you know growth of of tumors and so
so the 25 patient a day answer is Xanax
is let me give you a benzo and the
problem with it is once you start it
it's Insidious it changes your brain to
need it in order to feel normal and so
I'm like so how else can we quell your
anxiety