Kind: captions
Language: en
[Music]
i love the analogy of tennis where it's
like you got a choice are you on the
opposite side of the core and we're
hitting the ball back and forward but
ultimately one of you has to win or are
you next to me and we're teammates and
if i miss the ball you got my back and
if i miss the ball i got your back and
we are both playing to win the same game
and the same thing together and at the
end of the day we're both standing on
the podium together holding that cup
together and so i just go to i've chosen
a game of doubles okay so if i've chosen
a game of doubles what does that look
like
if you want someone which i do to be
there when you're weak you have to be
honest about where you're weak if you
want somebody to help you on a journey
because to me it is the partnership so
if i'm changing and evolving and no
longer want to be a stay-at-home wife
finding it miserable literally
bought out of my nut and the hard thing
was i didn't want you to think that
meant i didn't love you anymore
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hey everybody welcome to another episode
of impact theory today i am joined by
what i am sure will be my favorite guest
of all time
the one and only
my wife lisa billion
welcome to the show
i am very excited to have you so for
anybody who's a die-hard fan they know
that you were on health theory once so
you're now on
relationship theory before truth facts
and now
we're going to be talking about well i
guess it's important to say that we're
filming this the day before our 19th
wedding anniversary wedding anniversary
so we've been together even longer
and today
we're going to be talking about
relationships and i want to start with
the idea of why love isn't enough i
think you and i would agree
that love actually isn't enough if you
want to have a thriving relationship and
love as controversial as this may be is
not how we've gotten to 19 years it's
controversial i think some people will
it's a very romantic notion to think
that you get as far into a relationship
as we've gotten and i'll say there's a
really amazing phrase that is so true
about love
necessary but not sufficient hmm
you have to have it like that's a
prerequisite if you don't have it you're
really going to be in trouble
but that isn't the thing that's allowed
us to navigate through and get here so
but before you say how we've gotten here
why isn't love enough i think when me
and you got together we i mean we both
have divorced parents and so for you
marriage wasn't really a must either
anyway it was more like a
sure i didn't plan to get married to be
honest yeah so it's like if you meet the
right person
and then for me i was so worried about
why do 50 of marriages fail like if
everybody thinks they're in love but
then ends up 50 divorced there's a
massive chasm between the time you fall
in love to you know when people get
divorced and what happens between that
chasm and i think for me and you we just
discuss that it doesn't get you over
your insecurities it doesn't get you
through arguments it doesn't get you
through disagreements and problems and
hurdles like you can't just love your
way out of it why not
why can't you just love your way out
yeah like as prepping for this episode i
was really thinking that i think a lot
of people can give you ideas about
what to do to overcome the gap but i
don't know that a lot of people can
explain what the gap is
i want you to explain i think you're
going to have a group well it's
interesting because you touched on a lot
of what i think that it is but it
it ultimately comes down to
change i think is the single biggest
thing that is the chasm is made up of
that just over time like i'll even
really make it sort of a basic thing and
say
that
your hormones change
throughout the course of a marriage and
when you sort of peg so the seven year
itch right is where you've got the guy
who's got this
massive sex drive testosterone
compelling him to seek novelty and so
you get this like breakdown of
especially if it's sort of an og
relationship where by the time you are
seven years in you've already had kids
and they're probably at about two or
three years old which they say is about
the length to which nature has ensured
that the guy stays engaged and it makes
sense
that you need the woman to finish the
pregnancy to get the kids sort of to a
balanced
you know stable state it's not like they
could go off and take care of themselves
but
that makes a lot of sense to me
um so if you were going to say what's
the thing that the chasm is made up of
it's changed
can i actually ask you a question i love
how quickly you have flipped the tables
here
but here's the thing actually because as
you were talking though
isn't it like your cells and your skin
regenerate seven years i literally was
about to say isn't it seven years i
doubt they have anything to do with each
other but that's so interesting if
you're
fundamentally your body isn't the same
cells and
whatever else it is if it's not the same
in seven years then wouldn't that be a
part of it
i i think that you're grouping things
that they have a spiritual core of
something that feels like they must be
related but
to me honestly the thing there that's
far more interesting is how every seven
years if you're turning over every
single cell in your body how is it that
you have a permanent sense of self that
does change but feels entirely connected
so for me that's
less i think enlightening in terms of
what happens in a marriage but you have
that people change
that they have different rates of change
that they are learning different lessons
in life one may be going into like a
turtling up mode life has sort of kicked
them around and not been what they
expected maybe the other person feels
more expansive over time and things have
gone well and so they begin to
understand each other less and less and
that brings me to what i think is sort
of the second thing which is
i'll put a really uh
overly fine point on it but i think that
it's it hints at the deeper more
profound issue which is they're not
using the same words and they think they
are
that hints at what's actually the bigger
problem which is misunderstanding each
other at such a profound level that you
don't realize you're misunderstanding
each other so you think you were having
the same conversation
and it's funny i was just talking about
this today on impact theory university
where i was like here's the problem with
emotions
they make things seem self-evidently
correct
so i am angry therefore it is
self-evidently correct that you have
done something wrong
and the fact that it feels
self-evidently correct you don't think
to question like
why why are you arguing for your
position you know it's wrong and that's
where people get the other person
doesn't think they're wrong the other
person thinks you're just as crazy as
you think they are
but no one ever stops to get to that so
do you think that the definition then of
how people see love changes
whoa
i did not even think about that
i think that it
does almost certainly change but the
bigger problem was that they never
agreed what it meant in the first place
so well now let's make that uh useful
for people so going back to this idea of
your you are having an argument
at a surface level because there's two
things happening one the words don't
mean the same thing so you think you're
talking about the same thing you're not
but then to compound issues people are
almost never talking about the real
issue
and so
tell people so what's the biggest fight
that you and i have ever gotten okay
well
we were driving we were probably two
years into our marriage
and we were dirt poor and you had saved
and surprised me on this wonderful road
trip and you had saved every penny for
us to get there and so the plan was we
were going to get up jump straight in
the car and then get there so morning
comes so excited i get up i could make
my teeth this is a great example of the
difference between sex in men and women
by the way
because like this is all the foreplay
for me it was like i was looking for
this one word answer but keep going
giving the context like we're warming up
yeah yeah yeah well it gives it gives
that idea no i truly if people knew what
was in my head what i was expecting you
to say when i asked that question
and then what i'm getting it's like oh
my god this is the difference between
like literally how men approach sex and
that women approach anyway we'll i'm
sure at some point talk about sex but
for now keep going okay so we go
together we get up i go make my tea and
you start getting irritated with me i
don't understand why you're getting
irritated i want my tea you want to get
in the car we start bickering
you know one of those arguments you kind
of early days you're just bickering
about something you get in the car
before we knew it it was a full-blown
row on the freeway where we're screaming
at each other you turned the car around
for us to go back home
vacation
all ruined all because i wanted a cup of
tea and you didn't want me to have the
cup of tea
from the outside that's what it seemed
like right our biggest argument was over
a cup of tea
which is what i was thinking you would
say so fascinating uh
but of course it wasn't about the t and
that ended up so going back to this love
thing
is it seems self-evidently true to me
that you were being
disrespectful to me by having the cup of
tea
self-evident and so it didn't make sense
to me to need to address
why
it was problematic and disrespectful for
you to have the tea so to me you were
drinking the tea
you know what i mean like fully going
just did that it looked so spiteful like
yeah what are you gonna do
i'm gonna be drinking my tea yes
that's how you perceive it yes and
that's what i'm saying like
if
people don't project into the other
person and go what is this experience
from their perspective because let me
tell you if someone who loves you and
that you love are going that head to
head you're not you don't perceive the
situation the same
therefore the entire argument should
stop instantly and you should simply say
where's the misperception
and those two things to me that we can
so fundamentally misperceive a situation
meaning it seems self-evidently
disrespectful to me therefore you're
doing it in full knowledge of how
disrespectful it is but of course
what the breakthrough in that moment for
us was
no you just have a totally different
frame of reference and then it was like
oh my god once i understood your frame
of reference i was like
whoa
now your behavior makes sense to me and
it isn't you being spiteful it goes from
to
right you're just excited to have the
cup of tea to share the time in the
space
and and what made a great vacation is
setting off like great with my cup of
tea and i don't have to rush and you're
going to be sweet and then you'll get
annoyed with me so i got annoyed that
you're annoyed and in fact i totally
actually i it just hit me what you're
saying because yes i'm like but if he
loves me
right now now you're articulating your
framework
thank you if he loves me then doesn't he
want me to enjoy my cup of tea if this
vacation is supposed to be a gift to me
which he said it was and he loves me
then why isn't he being sweet and kind
and um graceful when i say hey i just
want to spend the first 30 minutes
having a cup of tea
love isn't enough
homie
love is definitely not enough so those
two things to me seem to be the most
profound so you have people changing in
different ways at different rates and
then people having these fundamental
misunderstandings of each other where
they never get to what the actual root
causes and just because you haven't said
what your side of it was and why you
thought it was being disrespect i was
being disrespectful with a cup of tea i
hadn't taken any time off work i really
felt a crushing amount of pressure to
live up to what i had told your father
who did not want me to marry you
that i knew i was broke at the time but
that i would one day make you wealthy
and he just couldn't see it he could not
see how i was going to take and he
wasn't saying like you need to make her
wealthy he was just legitimately afraid
i wouldn't be able to take care of you
now the time that i go to propose i
don't have a job like i get it now
and didn't understand it at the time
and so now i have all this pressure on
my shoulders of like i really have to
make this come true we're multiple years
into our marriage it's not happening i'm
working really hard but i'm not getting
results i feel in over my head i feel
sort of unprepared for
this future that i can dream about but i
don't know how to execute against and so
the only thing i knew how to do was work
more more and more and more and more so
i was throwing a lot of hours at it and
of course
it ends up being that it really was wax
on wax off and i really was getting
better but i hadn't sort of had that
threshold moment where you could see it
yet
and so to take time off was to betray
you was to betray everything i promised
you was to
um
play at being your husband instead of
actually taking care of you and so
i'm coming into this thing i've heard
you say that before
i don't think i've ever said it like
that before which is always fascinating
to just speak out loud yeah
so in the moment i'm thinking okay
if i'm going to take this time off
if i'm going to spend this money that i
should be taking care of you with and
making sure that you have a roof over
your head and food on the table
because at this time we have a very
traditional relationship you're staying
at home i'm working
and
i was like if we're gonna do this we
need to make the most of it we need to
be at the hotel but i haven't said any
of this and that's the important thing
it seems self-evident to me it seemed
obvious to me that that's
what this was and how we should react
okay it never occurred to me that you
had a different frame of reference i
didn't even know the concept of frame of
reference
so
i'm like okay
obviously we need to get to the hotel
the moment it opens because they charge
you i mean if you prorate the money by
minute or hour it's like you're
literally throwing money away if you're
not there at the moment that they let
you in and i'm so panicky about this
about money at this point
so
we're gonna waste money if we're not
there on time and then i'm not working
so
we should be on vacation we shouldn't be
sitting in our apartment where we are
all the time
drinking tea like it just
it seemed to
not
acknowledge that this was a huge
sacrifice for me that taking time off
felt so risky
spending money felt so risky and here
you were doing something that we could
do on any weekend
and so
we get in the screaming match we turn
around we're driving back
and at that point i finally like in
playing the scene in my head
you're having the biggest fight of your
life over a cup of tea
and just saying those words in my head
was like there's no way this is about a
cup of tea
and
that insight
is
why i do impact theory no joke it's
indicative of why i do impact theory
where it's like i don't know that i
earned that insight but i had it and it
was life-changing and so now it's like
all i try to do is encounter other
people's information where hey maybe
you've had an insight that i haven't had
that'll change my life and then all the
insights that i've had like may save
somebody else so it was realizing
there's no way this is about a cup of
tea what is this about and that one
question changed the course of our
marriage because then we said
what is this
and now people have to imagine two young
kids
so you're at this point 24 maybe yeah
about 20. i'm 27 so maybe should have
known a little better but still very
young
and we fumble through it and in the end
we realize
oh my god you have a totally different
frame of reference than i have and i
have a totally different frame of
reference than you
and from that moment every time we get
in a fight we're like we're at the t
what's the real argument so that's the
chasm to me
now how do people cross it how do people
cross the chasm yeah how do people like
oh my god of all the humans on this
planet you are the right person to ask
this question now because you're writing
a book we won't get too much into this
right now but
i've never
known anybody as well as i know you for
sure but i'm not even sure i've ever met
anybody whose life changed as
dramatically over the course of their
marriage than you
so you go from housewife to very
successful entrepreneur able to run
divisions of companies i mean it's
really really an incredible
transformation
but that level of change caused massive
disruption in our marriage
and so
how did we get to the other side
well so for me it's always
i love the analogy of tennis where it's
like you got a choice are you on the
opposite side of the core and we're
hitting the ball back and forward but
ultimately one of you has to win or are
you next to me and we're teammates and
if i missed the ball you got my back and
if i miss the ball i got your back and
we are both playing to win the same game
and the same thing together and at the
end of the day we're both standing on
the the podium together holding that cup
together and so i just go to i've chosen
a game of doubles okay so if i've chosen
a game of doubles what does that look
like
if you want someone which i do to be
there when you're weak you have to be
honest about where you're weak if you
want somebody to help you on a journey
because to me it is the partnership so
if i'm changing and evolving and no
longer want to be a stay-at-home wife
finding it miserable literally
bought out of my nut and the last thing
i wanted was to
was to put clothes out for you and take
care of you anymore and the hard thing
was i didn't want you to think that
meant i didn't love you anymore
and so especially because this is
interesting we've never articulated this
out loud
you would use that as an example of
showing me that you love me so it really
was
a
part of how you expressed your love for
me was to support me in that way and to
do those things so now
it wouldn't have been a misunderstanding
for me to take that as an act of love
which of course i did so now you've been
giving me this gift for years i take it
as an act of love we integrate it into
the narrative that we tell about our
relationship to other people like i
would call you the ceo of w industries
which meant that you were facilitating
my work career
and so all of those things gave you the
ability to express love made me feel
loved
but now don't work anymore at least on
one side it still worked for me yeah
that's true um it really goes to how we
even discuss business so even with our
emotions even with us changing
everything that we do in business or
personal it's like what's the goal
and how do i get there and what's going
to serve me in order to get there so the
goal was for me to
change my life to break out of the
mundane you were consciously thinking
that
once it started to hit me so once we
started quest and i was still in quest
help of supporting my husband how long
were you unhappy before you
changed i mean when i look back
eight years well really
putting it wasn't my dream to put out
clothes for you and cook for you
so
when i say unhappy it's not like i was
profoundly unhappy and crying every day
by myself no but that was essentially
the whole time that's not like oh for
three or four years i was fine that that
lasted eight years yeah so the whole
time it just got perpetually worse where
it's like i can self-sued i can
self-soothe and then by the end i just
couldn't
and so i just looked and i was like okay
i'm loving quests i'm loving all this
change that i'm doing
i don't want to do
the housewife stuff anymore
and so when i i know my personality is
to just be almost like dismissive not
meaning to but just be like well i'm not
doing that anymore and like let me do
more and more of this
not thinking about
how that would actually affect you or
our relationship
and so i you think about the goal what
is the goal i don't want to cook and
clean for you anymore but my goal is
still to be extremely happily married my
goal is to now find myself if you will
and so in that
thinking i was like okay well if this is
a tennis match and we're on the same
side how do i articulate to him where my
weak strokes are and he can come and
help me instead of thinking like i can
do it all by myself and so inviting you
in and saying i love learning about
myself the stuff that i'm doing at quest
like i'm really growing into who i want
but i i have a problem
can you help me solve this problem i
don't want to what did you see as the
problem
that i couldn't do both i didn't want to
do both i didn't want to work and be a
stay-at-home wife or be a supportive
wife and like i just didn't i wanted to
go all in
on myself and all in on learning and
building with you and finding out who i
am and what i'm capable of
and so i think that in that process i
just said
i don't want to cook and clean anymore
like it it is making me so unhappy and
because it took me eight years to
even allow myself to think that
because i didn't when i now say in
hindsight i was uh miserable for eight
years but in the time i didn't i was so
suiting the entire time you're gonna
have to define that for people
self-soothing yeah every time you feel
like what am i doing with my life i
distract myself distract yourself or
tell yourself a story about i'm helping
my husband and that matters both so
self-soothing emotionally because
what did you do
you didn't like turn to food drugs or
anything like that so no i didn't turn
to that but i definitely um
so emotionally self-soothed it's for the
bigger cause it's for the bigger vision
it's the new enterprises i i'm you know
i have to stick out my end of the
bargain
um and then the other thing was distract
myself in every way shape or form so if
you say food food was a distraction from
me counting calories being obsessive on
the treadmill how many calories have i
burned
um that was extremely unhealthy for my
mindset so i did everything i could to
distract myself you know i would cook 30
burgers for you because you were like
you know lifting
and so i would distract myself with menu
like menial tasks every day all day
every day
and so when i started and realized i
wanted to change
and i was loving developing myself
i knew that i
couldn't and didn't want to do it alone
and this comes back to again you either
bring them in
to be a helpful source or you push them
away and say i can do this by myself but
it never don't it never seemed the right
answer to be like this is who i am now
and now you have to accept it it's like
i want to be married to you babe for the
rest of my life to the day i die
to the day i take my final last breath
hopefully 90 100 years old so if that's
going to be so young i know right but if
that's actually going to freaking happen
you have to navigate the changes in life
i'm i am changing and i am feeling like
that and so
how on earth can i live to 90 and 100
and actually say that with an honest you
know face that i want you next to me and
at the same time dismiss any emotion you
may have over the things that i'm
changing
and so bringing you into the thing
seemed like the most um
to be honest i felt more supportive it's
like oh he can support me in this
but i had to be very aware and
really respectful to the fact that my
change is going to impact you
how did you think about it not being an
ultimatum though like if you knew
and maybe you didn't but i assume you
knew deep in your heart that this is a
one-way street i'm not going back
and i guess it's important to note that
at this time it was
years of you
supporting me and showing love one of
the ways through all of that sort of
facilitating my life
not doing it and we couldn't afford to
get help which meant if
you know my clothes were gonna be made
washed put out folded whatever now i was
gonna have to do what i was doing
already plus all of those things for
myself because we couldn't afford to
have somebody else to do it for us so
it's not like this was inconsequential
and now it's just oh well somebody else
is doing it it was adding hours worth of
work to my life certainly weekly and in
some cases daily
so you know you're not going back
it has a meaningful impact on my life
negatively
how did you like what was that thing
were you just looking for a solution
like i know there's an answer here and i
just have to
we have to stay in dialogue long enough
to find it or
it was all stumbling through it but it
really was like how would i feel if you
just changed your pitch up on me
like literally right it was i wanted
four children and here i was like oh
yeah i don't want to clean for you
anymore and at that time we still
thought we were gonna have kids but it
wasn't a um
like an all or nothing but it was i'm
changing and um i need your help and
your support here
and i don't think i can do it alone you
know what honestly like if i really
think about what made that time tough
it was also that
as
as you got better at things and found
like your
strength in a new area it was changing
your personality
and that's actually really interesting
to think through i would love to talk
about that actually so just to kind of
to wrap up the question of how i hand
there i knew i just put myself in your
shoes how would i feel if we had made
all these discussions about our future
and what we were going to do and now i'm
completely changing it it's like i
wouldn't want someone to be dismissive
over the fact that you're changing the
plans i wouldn't want you to be
dismissive over the
thing that i have gotten to love to
write like you love the fact that i was
just taking care of you and you didn't
have to think about it
so i just approached it like okay show
him the respect that i acknowledge that
i'm i'm the one changing acknowledge
that i understand i'm causing more
difficulty in essence to your life so
don't be dismissive over that but then
also acknowledge going back to the very
first thing that you started with with
you know love that love isn't enough but
you need love it's just like you love me
and so if you love me what does that
mean you want what's best for me you
want me to be happy now if the partner
doesn't want you to be happy that's a
whole other thing but if you truly do
want me to be happy
and babe this is what's going to make me
happy i need to say those words i need
to start expressing to you how unhappy i
was because i didn't do that i was like
holding it all in i wasn't telling you
how miserable i was so going okay i need
to articulate that to you and as i was
articulating the last thing was i need
to give you the grace to feel like this
isn't a great thing for you and give you
the grace to be like i have to mourn
quote-unquote the wife you used to be
and then the wife that you're kind of
letting go of and i respected that so
much because i would want you to do the
same for me if let's say all of a sudden
i married someone that's extremely
ambitious wants to build business but if
you turn to me tomorrow babe and you're
like you know what i'm freaking tired of
this and i don't want to do
anything you know i actually just want
to live a life of utter um gluttonous
like i want to sit and eat ice cream and
watch movies all day and babe that's
what's going to make me happy like i
would want to be able to support that in
you if you told me that's what made you
happy but at the same time you are
changing your pitch up on the type of
person you are so giving you the grace
and then allowing you to mourn it and
then i joke about it but it's kind of
like i'm i was weaning you off the drugs
or like winning you off me being that
type of wife and so we made this
agreement all right baby what i'll do is
i'll cook maybe five days a week and i
won't cook on you know for two days and
then for the next three days i'm gonna
put your clothes out for work but then
i'm gonna stop and then in a week i'm
gonna stop putting your gym clothes out
um so that you're able to make this
transition and feel like you're a part
of it
and then the last thing i think i
already said this but letting you know
how happy i was
like i feel so fulfilled by this oh my
god i love my life i've never thought i
would feel like this but i do
and as a partner who truly loves someone
even when it's worse for you isn't that
what you want in your partner to be
happy
and so we really talked about it and you
know we made the the deal that we would
always articulate and would communicate
throughout the entire process so that it
there were no you know signs that we
were missing or things like that
yeah it was um
it was one of those things as we were
going through it i was like oh my god
this is how other people get themselves
in trouble and from my side of the um
coin i was going to say from my side of
the net but that
yet well i was gonna say it because you
primed me for it but um
you know with that same idea of okay
we're on the same team we're on the same
side here and then i remember because
one of the harder things like
in retelling it it's easy to focus on
like the clothes and stuff but to be
honest like that was a pretty
um whatever
you know it's you're sad to see it go it
was definitely a sort of love language
thing it was nice
but it wasn't like our marriage was
built around i go do these things and
you take care of me it we had a very
vibrant emotional life a deep shared
connection a thriving sexual life like
we had
all those other things going for us and
you know i had always considered you my
equal and so there was none of that like
sort of 1950s like i don't want
people to think this was a concern
it wasn't
literally i wanna just then stay we made
this decision together it was you're
gonna we both wanted to make movies so
you're gonna go off we heard about steve
jobs you're gonna go off and work and
focus on just that thing you weren't
gonna make any other
like smaller decisions about what we're
gonna eat what who pays the bills how do
we pay it where do we go for dinner
where am i getting the groceries for
like all of that so we sat down it was a
very like well-laid plan originally
where was like all right bill you
enterprises you're going to go make the
money i'm going to be be president of
bill you homes and i'm going to take
care of this and then in a year and a
half we're going to make all our money
we're going to go off and make movies
like that was the plan 18 months 18
months baby so if that's where it
started and then that turned into eight
years so yeah thank you for saying that
i don't want anyone to misinterpret that
i was the 1950s wife it was absolutely
we had the goal we had the strategy
and in that strategy i got lost i lost
myself and that is not on you that is a
hundred one thousand percent on me
because i didn't speak up i didn't ask
myself what i wanted in life and then
finally when i did you were so
beautifully receptive to me becoming the
woman i wanted to be
and
if you think love is just enough to get
through that like that was hard
that was awesome
i don't think we've even gotten to the
part that was really hard so the part
that was really hard is when you're
watching
you get into a dance with your partner
where you act one kind of way i act
another kind of way and so it works
right
and then as you were
getting into business and having to
toughen up there was a tough side to you
that began to come out
and i remember having to say to you like
you're getting hard
and i
and this is where it gets where change
gets interesting right because
you fall in love with somebody that
you're really attracted to you're
attracted to them because they're a
specific kind of way whether it's they
look a certain kind of way they act a
certain kind of way all of it and as
that changes then it's like well am i
still attracted to this
is this the kind of person that i would
fall for and so it's this really
interesting dance of okay i've gotten
together with you you're becoming
somebody that i don't think i would have
married in the first place
but we're already in this we've shared a
life my big joy is i want to share this
life with you i'm i'm essentially with
my one life running an experiment which
is what does it look like to share a
life with one person
and to me that's the greatest joy of a
human life is it's the one thing you can
never make up right so part of the
reason i always told you don't ever
worry that you're going to get old and
you're going to age and one day you're
not going to be young and hot because
what this is for me is is about sharing
a life with somebody and all the good
the bad and everything in between and so
you're changing i'm making i'm running
this experiment of you know what does it
look like if you stay together no matter
what
not no matter what but within certain
confines that probably is outside the
scope of this discussion unless we have
18 hours
so you're changing you're
becoming something that
in real time i was like i wouldn't have
been drawn to this if you had had had
this sort of tough edge
to you when we first got together which
by the way doesn't mean that you weren't
um you were a very solid stable
confident person like i need go no
farther than say the crepes you're
either in or you're out
uh so i knew that within you there was a
deep well of resilience and intensity
but it just wasn't a day-to-day thing
and now it was becoming a day-to-day
thing for you to thrive in business you
really had to step up and if people
understood what like thrive in business
is like this really abstract term but in
reality it was like a bunch of gang
members
and you rising up like to run this how
many people were in your department and
the shipping department there was 40.
yeah and i think at least 20 of them
were ex-convicts it was crazy yeah
people will never really understand what
that is five foot one just for people to
give a yes and you had very intimidating
uh physically intimidating employees and
they had to take you seriously so
for you to become that kind of person
it's not just developing a big bark it's
about having
so much skill at what you do and so much
clarity and intensity that people just
want to follow you right so this wasn't
about you becoming a raving lunatic but
you were becoming so firm so convicted
so
hard that it was like yo where did my
wife who had gentility and nurturing
qualities and like all this softness
which helped balance all the intensity
and hardness that i had to develop so it
was this wonderful yin yang of in
business i have to be ultra hard but
then i can come home to somebody who is
soft and just a totally different vibe
and now we're both hard
and it to me is like the emotional
equivalent have you ever seen two
bodybuilders
when they're together like a male and
female or male and male it doesn't
matter but like two bodybuilders in a
romantic relationship to me is
unappealing it's just hard on hard it's
muscle and muscle i'm just like what's
happening here like there's no
differential and to me some of the joy
is that differential of the masculine
and feminine
and you love that about me that was part
of i think what you loved and you i was
not losing it i don't like to say losing
it but i was
um
you had developed a new gear and you
were permanently in that gear yeah so
now i'm only looking for ways to make it
work i'm not looking for the exit ramp
and that's been a big thing one thing i
think that people need to know about us
is we don't even say the d word oh it's
like voldemort you don't say it in our
house yeah so the d word being divorced
doesn't get people but the funny thing i
wasn't even going to say it like that's
how
much no no i think it's good but like
that's how much energy i put around that
word i don't talk about it
as well
i don't talk about it i don't joke about
it and so
going through that i'm like okay i'm
totally committed to this
but i need to find a way to like
connect to it and feel good about it and
the big thing for me and i think this is
like the key
for people when it comes to change is
i have a rule in my life that i only
elevate those around me
and so i'm like never more so than with
my wife if i'm trying to elevate you do
i not want you to become the most
powerful person that excites you
that you learn everything you've ever
wanted to learn
is that not exactly what i want for you
and the answer is yes so then i'm like
okay now we have to find a way to
connect to this find out how we avoid
the sort of muscle on muscle vibe
and you know really like find that
rhythm
but just being able to say
i want i want you to become whoever you
want to become in order to be proud and
i want you
to feel that you've become as powerful
as you want to become and it was
interesting then it sort of unlocks
something and
it wasn't any more about
keeping you the same
it was about all right well let's go in
this ride together and then
obviously communicating a lot about it
and then i hope because functionally
what happened is you now have multiple
gears because there are times where
you're just the soppy
super
genteel ultra nurturing like let me do
something sweet in that way for you
and i love it
and the thing is i actually like in
hindsight 100 like i'm so grateful to
you for pointing that out to me which
thing that i was hardening and that it
may not eventually be good for our
relationship because
i like it like i actually genuinely like
feeling um
maybe soft is the right word and i don't
know why i'm caveating it because
today's society you know people were
just like that's the meaning to win was
like no actually i do like being soft
around you i like being a big ball of
cuddle
cuddliness um
i love that
and i think i was so driven about what i
was doing and the change i was making
within myself i think i
put it aside not realizing how important
it was for me to be that way
and so now it's because of that you you
brought it to my attention and i'm very
aware of it and i'm like oh i actually
feel good about being a
um you know bullamash sometimes that now
i i
have worked on how i pivot from being
your business partner that if we
disagree i'm not gonna back down we're
gonna have that you know debate or at
least that you know
maybe heated discussion about the
subject because as your business partner
i owe it to you to not be weak and i owe
it to you to stand my ground if i
believe in something and you owe it to
me to stand your ground and for us to go
through it and find the best answer for
the both of us and for the company and
so i have to be strong because you're
very intense and you're very passionate
and you're very articulate and so when
you feel passionately about something
and you become intense sometimes it's
easier just to back down
but as your business partner i need to
be strong it is something i value in
myself i do it for my own sake not even
for your sake but i do do it for my sake
and then the other side of it is is that
i do want to be that
like mushy wife and so how do i
transition from one to the other how do
i make sure that i don't stay in one
gear that i am able to shift multiple
gears and that just became okay what
tools do i know that i have to my um
accessible to me
because it's on me to learn how to do
that i
can't turn to you not that i can't i i
think it's a detriment to myself to turn
to you to make me feel either mushy or
hard it has to be within me and so for
me it absolutely i think i just told you
this a couple of weeks ago that i did
this i found myself really long day very
hard day i felt myself really strong and
i was like i just want a big cuddle from
you but i don't feel like i want a big
cuddle like i'm i'm tense and so i was
like what do i know okay go into my tool
belt so my tool belt is clothes makeup
hair
jewelry music
all of these things to make me feel a
certain way
and so that's my tool belt
if i want confidence people are like oh
my gosh you're so confident no no no i
go into my tool belt and i go how do i
build my confidence in this meeting how
do i build my confidence in front of
this photographer and so i choose
certain things to make me feel a certain
way and so with you a couple of weeks
ago it had such a hard day i wanted the
cuddle but i didn't really want it but i
knew it was good for me so i went up to
our bedroom i took off all my clothes
all of my jewelry i put on my big
flannel wonder woman's pants my pajama
bottoms
i put on like a loose top i tied my hair
back i took my makeup off i put on my
robe
and then literally i just felt
differently
and i came up to you and i gave you a
big hug and i just i was able to make
that transition from one to the other
but that takes a lot of freaking
attention practice this is
nuanced
it's complicated
and
i think that it's
i try never to be in like kids today
mode but sometimes i do worry that we
are like i don't care what role people
play in their relationship but to fail
to understand that we have evolved to
play roles
is where people
really get into trouble like i'll just
say and people can light me up in the
comments if they want
i would never be able to stay with a
wife who didn't know how to make me feel
powerful
and i use those words very intentional i
should know how to make myself feel
powerful as well
but if you didn't know what little moves
to do to make me feel powerful
i don't know it just there would be it
feels so good
and it's like i hope that women will be
very comfortable with this if you're
with a man that doesn't know how to make
you feel beautiful
you're missing a trick
completely can i just add one little
thing as well because you're right
people are going to blow up the comments
right now
and
here's the thing people want to know how
we've been together this long with this
honest
i want you to make me feel a certain way
now i can't rely on you
i cannot rely on you babe to make me
feel sexy to make me feel sexual that is
on me i do want you to to make me feel
beautiful but again i don't need you to
and it's important to understand
you need to understand the difference
between need and want because failing to
understand that you have to own yourself
you have to own your own emotions you
have to take control of your life and
yet hold the competing idea in your head
of but i also need a partner who knows
how to elevate me and make me feel
beautiful or powerful or sexy or strong
or like whatever that need is that you
have where it's yes at my best i should
be able to do this for myself and 99 of
the time i do
but i'm not always at my best and i need
somebody that
can help me in those ways and it's like
if in the moment
where you need me to
make you feel beautiful right already a
super fragile state means you're not in
a great place
if i'm like you shouldn't need me to
make you feel beautiful it's like
wrong answer it's like yes that's
actually true but in that moment oh god
is it the misread of the situation and
then also that's what to me a
partnership is
like we've committed to being in a
partnership together so there is going
to be a hundred percent this crossover
of relying on the other person of
needing the other person you know on
occasions to really be able to turn to
them and know they've got your back that
when you fall on the floor they
are there to reach out a hand and
pull you back up to me that is
what a partnership is and to then not be
honest with them about what you need
about your vulnerability so sorry i kind
of interrupted you but i'm so passionate
about this one thing because you just
said it as well is that you've given me
the tool like the biggest vulnerability
you have you've just handed it to me
right i want you to make me feel
powerful so now i know i can use it when
you i can use it as a dig i can use it
because i know that makes you feel good
and so obviously maybe making you feel
weak is very powerful tool but i'll
never use
the weakness i'll never come to you and
do it deliberately and make you feel
weak so it's giving someone the power to
use what you're looking for in a
relationship against you
and the fact that we never do that with
each other is part of what makes us so
strong
no doubt it is so complex to
navigate these things to be able to ask
for something like that do you remember
the scene in jerry maguire
where so in jerry maguire he's like at
his lowest of lows and
kelly preston i think is the actress
comes up behind him and is like you're
but jerry maguire and like you
do this and he's like yeah keep it
coming this is really working and i
remember thinking that's what you do for
me like those times where i
like i've done the hard work to make
sure that i'm growing and getting
stronger and better and capable like
this isn't it's not you bullshitting me
it's you reminding me of who i am
and while yes i secretly hope that i
don't ever need it in fact this is
either i'm about to people up and
change their life forever or they will
not see the wisdom in this and i fear
for their own relationship
it does as much for me
to be effective at making you feel
powerful or beautiful or
loved whatever you need in that moment
as it is for you to actually get
the sense of power
beauty love whatever and vice versa
because this is my daryl moment we all
need to be needed
and
honestly
if in this relationship you were never
down and didn't need me to help big you
back up
that would be worse for us that would be
bad for me i would never get a chance to
be needed by you
and vice versa where
you need to be needed by me
and having that i don't think people
recognize how amazing that moment is
which was another early revelation that
i had in our marriage of thinking in the
beginning
that for you to find me sexually
attractive i would need to be better
than you at everything
and it was
mind-blowing
to finally realize who the would
want to be in a relationship where the
other person was better than them at
everything and so
really coming into
an understanding that
us being peers but good at different
things
was really the outcome and that
not only would it be useful to me for
you to have a chance to elevate me back
up to pick me up to brush me off to
remind me of who i could be
but
it was beneficial to you as well that
like we each got something out of that
exchange
that's so powerful and then one thing i
want to add is
it's also not healthy to only rely on
that person to make you feel a certain
way because now imagine you're you only
feel powerful which is what you're
looking for you only feel powerful if
i'm the one that is
making you feel that way i don't want
that pressure like i've got my i've got
my own insecurities my own like
that i have to work through my own you
know self-narrative of i'm not good
enough and you know just the things that
i deal with on a daily basis of my
insecurities and so it's like if i'm
already in my own head trying to pick
myself up in my own head to show up
every day
and i don't have the energy for you well
now you're purely relying on it for me
and that's where i think that me and you
would then butt heads right because i
don't think would necessarily in those
moments be able to articulate it
i'm
obviously not giving you something that
you're looking for but i'm not
necessarily willing to give you
all of that
yeah
it is
it is so difficult to
get into the nuance of this stuff
i mean everything we're talking about
right now it comes back to mean you
discuss everything we communicate on
every aspect and so anyone listening
really that's what it comes down to is
it doesn't even matter what you're
looking for in your relationship you do
you if but communicate that with your
partner if you want to you know if it's
a role thing communicate if it's an um
a leadership thing communicate if it's a
i want to feel this way communicate like
mean you every step of the way we
communicate so there's not that friction
that i think so many couples have um
where it's am i supposed to be this and
they're supposed to be that and you know
just discussing those things
has been game changing
for me and you
i always think that people would be a
little tripped out to hear us talk in
real life because they'd be like they
actually talk like that oh yeah we do
like even recently i discovered a new
trigger and i told you and i was like
you're pressure might you're you're like
i told you the trigger and then when we
got into a bit of a debate i was like
okay i feel like you're um you're
pressing on my trigger right now you're
activating my trigger but articulating
that to you because you may not know
everyone always thinks the other person
understands what they mean but they
don't freaking understand they're not in
your head they don't know so even if
i've told you hey this is a trigger of
mine it doesn't mean that you actually
know when you're triggering me so i've
told you the trigger now imagine we're
not articulating and or i feel like well
i've already told him it's like no it's
a constant evolution so if it's what
i've ever i've already told him and
let's say you then do it i can i can't
believe how disrespectful he is i can't
believe how much he doesn't give a
i've told him what it is and he's still
doing right that's one response or i can
go it it's communication i'm it needs to
take time it has to be repeated it has
to be addressed with no
judgment like i knew it because i know
you and because i know you love me going
back to what we're saying
now i go cool he loves me i'm not
communicating enough now look sometimes
in those moments it doesn't feel like it
so sometimes we have that discussion
after
if you truly believe that person wants
what's
like great for you if your partner
really wants to see you happy if your
partner really wants to see you succeed
in those moments