Kind: captions
Language: en
but I think what people most forget is
that the the the closest proximity uh of
infectious diseases to the blood-brain
barrier is in periodontal uh diseases
and that's been strongly associated with
with Alzheimer's disease
everybody welcome to another episode of
Health Theory I am joined today by Dr
Jay Lombard Jay thank you so much for
joining me today
it's a pleasure to be here thank you
dude I'm really excited to go into this
um you are bringing together a lot of
different things in your field I'm used
to dealing with holistic people when it
comes to nutrition when it comes to
um metabolic Health but you're sort of
the first person I've come across
that's bringing similar areas together
when we look at neurological conditions
and so as a I guess a flag post here for
everybody in the audience we're going to
go on a pretty epic journey I think
today regarding what impacts the brain
negatively some of the neurological
disorders that are cropping up like mad
and what we can do to fix them and let's
get really specific about what your core
hypothesis is and it'll be interesting
to see because there's actually for how
impressive I find you there is precious
little
um
interview material out there on you and
so I could watch your thinking evolving
in real time as I you know watch these
interviews and so the sort of last
guidepost that I had in terms of what
you were talking about publicly was that
hey I think that we what we may have is
um uh pathogenic problem in the gut that
is making its way to the brain through
leaky brain and that may be causing I
mean you you very specifically said I
have a hypothesis that ALS is caused by
um C diff and that was as as of last
guidepost was the thing that you said
that people were really pushing back on
and I'm curious is that still where
you're at or uh well it's evolved since
then so I'm glad to have this interview
right now because I I think C diff uh
uh one of the issues with uh correlating
infectious disease with neurological
diseases uh is is there's two questions
basically the first question is
uh are they comorbid conditions not
necessarily being causal I mean that you
can see patients that have infectious
disease like C diff uh it doesn't
necessarily mean that that those
infectious diseases are causing
neurological problems so one of one of
the gaps in our understanding is how
specifically do infectious diseases
actually lead uh to neurological injury
that's sort of you know one big step
that has had evolved in my thinking uh
to establish you know uh I won't say the
word causality but but pathogenic
mechanisms that overlap between
infectious diseases and neurological
problems and the second thing that I I
kind of have to backpedal on I thought
that it was C diff was the primary
Smoking Gun uh that's why I'm glad that
I'm on this uh call with you today
because I don't think it's a single
infection I think it's a multitude of
chronic infectious diseases uh whether
it's a combination of bacterial fungal
as well as viral diseases Lyme disease
I'm going to listener to my patients so
my patient's telling me that there's a
connection between uh when they
developed a herpetic infection or a Lyme
disease and they have to develop you
know MS symptoms uh I started paying
attention and not being dismissive of
What patients told me they thought the
connection was between infectious
disease and a neurological problem yeah
so if your former hypothesis and and you
were very clear that this was a
hypothesis and every time I've ever
heard you speak you're very metered
which I love but I also like that you're
not afraid to have a hypothesis that
you're pursuing so is now you're
thinking that basically that we're
getting these neurological symptoms we
think that we need to focus entirely on
the brain but really the effects in the
brain are merely a uh a symptom of a
pathogen that has intruded somewhere
else whether it be from a tick bite and
its Lyme disease or whether it be from
your diet and your you've caused
disruption in your microbiome and now C
diff overpopulates is is that the idea
that all of this is pathogen related or
is there potentially something else yeah
so first of all I'm glad that that uh
that this is a hypothesis this is a
theory right and it's it's it should not
I do not want to be credited for this
Theory I mean there's plenty of
Publications from nature from all sorts
of esteemed journals that have actually
asked this question you know is
Alzheimer's an infectious disease uh
another neurogenic disease is
Parkinson's so I I don't want to take
credit for this Theory uh that's number
one number two is I think that the way
my thinking has evolved regarding this
hypothesis is to try to explore how
specifically does any infection uh
produce neurological problems so my in
regards to how my thinking is involved I
think that these conditions are
ultimately vascular based meaning that
uh inflammatory conditions infectious
diseases uh bad lifestyle insulin
resistance hypertension all converge on
the endothelium on on blood vessels
basically in the walls of blood vessels
and that is sort of the underlying
mechanism of neurological injury that
connects all these epigenetic factors to
neurological diseases like ALS
Parkinson's and Alzheimer's disease so
you know in the old days back uh you
know in the 1990s when I finished my
neurology residency we would see on on
MRI studies when they first came out
because it was you know that in those
days MRI was just being introduced we
would see all sorts of of changes
ischemic changes changes like like what
we call mini strokes uh or vascular
changes uh in various areas of the
nervous system so for instance in
Parkinson's disease patients we would
see you know evidence of what's called
small vessel ischemic disease uh what
does ischemic mean
he means lack of blood flow Interruption
of blood flow
and we still see these changes if we do
uh MRIs on Alzheimer's patients who are
in patients with ALS we see what would
call these unidentified bright objects
these ubos uh that the Radiologists uh
kind of comment on and they they say
differential diagnosis could be
vasculitis it could be Lyme disease it
could be just age-related white matter
changes but what what all those things
actually mean in principle is that
whatever the provoking factor is whether
it's inflammatory mechanisms infectious
mechanisms uh or some combination of
various uh interruptions traumatic brain
injuries another example that can
produce these vascular changes uh the
The Smoking Gun if you will is really
based upon disruption in these very very
small blood vessels that are responsible
to perfuse the brain because without
perfusion of the brain you could take
any supplement you want uh but if you
don't have adequate perfusion uh uh
you're not going to have a healthy brain
meaning you no longer have the
functioning vasculature to get said
supplement to the regions of the brain
that actually need it exactly so all
neurodegenerative diseases whether it's
ALS Parkinson's Alzheimer's are
characterized by the production of of
proteins that are misfolded so think of
these proteins as basketballs that need
to be inflated a certain uh volume so
you can dribble correctly right once
once that that basketball becomes
deflated as a protein we call these
misfolded proteins so they really they
really are two challenges uh in our
approaches to ALS and other conditions
one is to uh figure out how to block the
production of these proteins because
these proteins will continuously be
misfolded uh based upon genetic
abnormalities that a person has acquired
as a result of these conditions and the
Second Challenge is once those misfolded
proteins are actually
um
uh created how do you degrade them
because these proteins are pathological
and they build up like atherosclerosis
in fact we now there's plenty of
evidence right now uh that these
conditions uh you know ALS Parkinson's
uh and Alzheimer's disease uh have these
plaques uh in the vascular system
there's a condition called amyloid
angiopathy which which speaks to that so
in other words the way I the way I've
been thinking about uh neurology right
now is the way that I think
cardiologists began thinking about heart
disease uh back in the 70s meaning that
that you know unless you're at the stage
where you need surgery right to remove
whatever plaques are building up the
best bet is identifying who has these
conditions number one uh and number two
uh putting a full-scale preventative
program uh with the same risk factor
management as we do for cardiovascular
disease because like you said you know
the the pathology manifests based upon
where a person's most vulnerable people
with genetic risk for Alzheimer's that's
where this pathology is going to show up
but the pathology itself is very similar
I mean you know misfolded proteins are
basically what clots are right clots are
basically protein aggregates that are
misfolded and therefore can't be removed
by the body's immune system so uh what I
mean to say is that I think that you
know our our goals here are to to manage
these as chronic diseases I tell people
my goal as a clinician is to help you
live with ALS not die from the condition
that's that's what I you know try to
encourage people to think about
very interesting so do you think that
all of these chronic diseases whether
it's cancer whether it's heart disease
Alzheimer's ALS do you think that they
all have
um
what I was going to ask is do you think
they have the same set is probably the
right word of underlying conditions or
do you think it's just that the body
only has so many uh make or break
mechanics and things impact those maker
break mechanics in different ways that's
that's a fantastic question by the way
fantastic question so I think that
we need to understand sort of uh a
little bit more in depth about how the
body normally handles these proteins
because there are uh cellular mechanisms
uh within our cells that are endogenous
mechanisms that help us break down these
proteins it's an area of the cell called
the lysosome which is a very acidic
environment that takes a degraded
protein and literally breaks it down so
that it's no longer pathological
basically you know the body has to find
a housekeeping effect to essentially
dissolve these pathological proteins so
a lot of uh leading investigators in all
sorts of fields Cardiology basic science
of Cardiology basic science in oncology
basic science and neurology have
identified lysosomal failure meaning an
inadequacy of the ability of lysosomes
to degrade these pathological proteins
regardless of what disease a person
particularly has meaning that there's an
overlapping mechanism of reduced ability
for our bodies to break down these
pathological proteins
do you think that is due to the amount
or due to the type of misfolding that
maybe the lysosome doesn't understand
because when I think about things like
that in our body I I am truly dazzled
that there is a part of our body that
goes I know I recognize you you're a
good protein I'm going to leave you
alone oh you look weird you're damaged
in some way and now I'm going to
dissolve you because they have to be
selective so is the system just being
overwhelmed or is there a way to misfold
that is due to a modern lifestyle that
the lysosome is just not familiar with
uh it's a combination of various things
so uh the the proteins responsible to
identify misfolded proteins are called
heat shock proteins these are proteins
that are elevated by hyperthermia so
that's sort of the original principle of
why hyperthermia may be an efficacious
biophysical approach uh to conditions
like this by elevating these heat shock
proteins
um because those are the the chaperones
that say hey you're a misfolded protein
it's time for you to leave the cytoplasm
come with me to lysosome don't worry
we're not going to get rid of you who's
going to recycle you uh so these heat
shock proteins take uh the misfolded
protein they send it to lysosome the
lysosome then digests the protein breaks
it down then it sends it to the What's
called the endoplasmic reticulum which
is another cellular structure that helps
to kind of recycle all those Pathways so
this sort of of a combination of a sort
of a three-hit hypothesis is one that
there's not enough heat shock proteins
because aging itself uh
uh and you know one of the things that
that I think I spoke about on with Dr
Hyman is one of the things that is a
very classic history I hear from
patients is that they're unable to mount
a fever
uh very often you know oh yeah I've had
C diff where I've had you know lime I've
had sinusitis but I never get a fever
that means that the body's endogenous
mechanisms to increase heat shock
protein 70 are defective then you have a
second hit which is that the lysosome
so think of a lysosome like as a as a
pool right and you have to put just the
amount of chlorine in the pool or salt
if you're not into chlorine right uh but
if you put too much salt in the pool uh
your eyes are going to burn meaning that
if it's too acidic uh that's also
unhealthy for the cell but if you don't
put any salt into the pool you're going
to have overgrowth of mold overgrowth of
these various uh infectious diseases in
fact one of the most interesting things
I just recently found in my research is
that bacterial infections actually
inhibit lysosomes
they actually inhibit lysosomes part of
their survival mechanism uh is based
upon inhibiting the enzymes that are
normally required to digest them because
don't forget take me to the swimming
pool but the pool is not going to kill
me that's exactly right yep wow sure
take me to the pool but you know what
guys I'm gonna hang out here and that
and that's what sort of creates the the
chronicity of infectious diseases is
that the lysosome is unable to digest
them properly because the immune system
is saying hey okay we found you know
something that doesn't belong to human
DNA this is you know bacterial antigen
or fungal antigen uh you know A protein
that doesn't look like us okay great the
heat shock protein has to uh bind to
that particular pathological protein
right if the heat shock protein uh is
not elevated enough because a person
can't mount a fever then the infection
will remain because it's not able to be
character the lysosome but let's say it
does take it to the lysosome the
lysosome says hey guys I'm out of acid I
have no more enzymes uh to degrade this
this protein so you know you're looking
at at many pathological steps uh in the
pathology of these conditions that are
that are disrupted uh and and why you
know my research is so focused on trying
to figure out ways of actually improving
the immune system by enhancing lysosomal
function
wow okay so I've heard of heat shock
proteins a bazillion times I have never
heard anybody explain what they do only
that this may be the reason that saunas
are
connected I'm not even sure if people
are making the Bold claim that there
there's a causation but that they're
connected to lowered risk of
um heart disease yes do you think that's
why
I I think it's definitely why and and
the other the other thing I want to
bring up because you know everyone is
sort of you know uh kind of puts this
gut brain problem uh into things like
sibo uh or dysbiosis or you know
um you know hyper permeability of the
gut but I think what people most forget
is that the the the closest proximity uh
of infectious diseases to the
blood-brain barrier is in periodontal uh
diseases and that's been strongly
associated with with Alzheimer's disease
uh it's it's you know the the oral
cavity is directly proximal to the
sinuses uh of the brain so that anywhere
we're gonna see a leaky mucosal barrier
it's in people that have periodontal
disease because that's the the first
area of of staging of the battle between
these various infectious diseases and
the immune system so what happens is
that the immune system is activated
right to try to break down these
pathogens and by the way I used to think
because I'm not a dentist I used to
think that you know periodontal disease
is all bacterial but in fact uh
periodontal disease has association with
candida uh fungal infections uh it's
it's not just bacteria that if that
causes periodontal disease but the point
is that that they're so close to the
blood-brain barrier that they have an
easier ability to migrate into the brain
and produce inflammatory reaction in the
brain then leaky gut does so I think
that you know one of the take-home
messages I would have for your listeners
is that yes I think that leaky gut uh is
is a very important aspect of you know a
functional medicine approach to any
condition but I think the first and
foremost point of assessment uh would be
assessing periodontal disease in those
patients wow okay we're starting to
understand some of the mechanisms that
are causing the issue here
how does one improve their oral health
like is this just what you eat is this
better brushing and flossing like what
do we actually need to do
so uh it's it's uh both a simple
question and a complicated question to
answer because obviously you know uh I'm
not a periodontist so I don't want to
speak out of turn about you know how to
match periodontal disease but
um you know I think that the first point
is yes uh you know oral hygiene is
critically important uh there's lots of
various types of mouthwashes and like
tea tree oil for instance which has you
know very good antimicrobial effects
um so I think that uh you know a
strategy that both includes you know
very good oral hygiene but also some
type of of natural antibacterial
um mouthwashes uh really makes sense to
me as well
okay so now going beyond the mouth what
are we doing on a lifestyle basis to
live as optimally healthily high
cognition avoid things like Alzheimer's
like what do we need to be doing
I think people should watch your show
more often that's my my first
recommendation
um good advice you know so um
I I think that you know first of all
people should you know identify uh
whether they have these risk factors
right so if people have a family history
of of cardiovascular disease or you know
heart disease or or lung disease
uh uh inflammatory diseases or
neurological diseases they're the ones
that really need to pay attention uh to
preventive strategies going forward I
mean we all do obviously but we know
that those people have a high genetic
risk because their family members have
had similar diseases so you know Ben
Franklin said an ounce of prevention is
worth a pound of cure right so I I think
the same recommendations that we have
for cardiovascular disease are are
equally warranted for prevention of
neurological conditions there are there
are two uh phenomena that regulate
epigenetics
okay so regardless of what Gene you have
because everyone everyone has bad genes
for for something right I mean you know
this old workup you know what's a
healthy person someone who has a full
diagnostic work up yet right we all have
you know genes that are going to lead to
something down the road uh but
epigenetic expression uh is modified by
two processes one is called methylation
uh which is why you know high doses of
methyl folic acid have proven to be very
effective in a variety of clinical
conditions like depression uh but also
the second process is called acetylation
so methylation and acetylation
are able to kind of repress uh
pathological genes from expression
but people have done a lot of uh work on
the methylation processes but there's
much less understanding of how
nutraceuticals and certain
pharmaceutical agents promote what's
called uh inhibiting the deacetylation
the breakdown of acetyl groups that are
responsible to prevent the pathological
expression of a bad protein think of a
mummy right uh the mummy's got all this
stuff wrapped around him right uh the
the methylation and and acetylation help
to keep that mummy Under Wraps once
what's under the wrapping is our DNA
correct the expression of the DNA
correct
yeah what do you mean the expression so
in in the what my Layman's understanding
of DNA goes like this it's this tightly
wound thing and depending on how much
it's wound any given Gene is wound up
will determine its level of expression
so when a Gene gets turned on by
something in our environment that
loosens the winding and now that Gene
can be read and therefore it expresses
now I get that that's probably super
clumsy but if that's sort of a rough
idea is that not then inside the
wrapping is our DNA
correct so what's what wraps the DNA is
something called chromatin uh uh which
is just the way it keeps it basically
regulates the expression of genes right
so and by the way just as a shout out to
what you just said so there's many
non-pharmaceutical uh nutraceutical
compounds that prevent uh the
deacetylation the the breakdown of the
Mummy wraps to help uh prevent the
expression of pathological genes uh some
of this work was done by Andy Zimmer
who's uh a pediatric neurologist I think
he was at Hopkins at one point that
demonstrated that um certain
isothiocyanates from broccoli and from
uh other uh healthy foods
um actually uh have
um neuroprotective Effects by actually
preventing the expression of
pathological genes in autism all right
this is uh man this stuff is so complex
but the fascinating thing is the more I
interview
amazing Minds like yours I I'm actually
starting to piece this stuff together
it's pretty crazy uh okay so
all right so you were explaining
epigenetics and how those were the two
elements of epigenetics and we were
ultimately trying to get to like what
those lifestyle things are that we can
do that are going to make sure that we
don't end up expressing
um some you mentioned autism now and I
do want to get into that but first I
want to sort of finish this lifestyle
aspect
um
I I've heard you talk about ketogenic so
I know you have
um familiarity with at least the
byproduct of certain diets I'm curious
to know like where you come down on uh
veganism versus carnivore and things
like that like do you have a take on
what lifestyle gives us the sort of
optimal results
yes regardless of whether you live it or
not that I'm not worried about that full
disclosure right uh no so I I practice
fasting on a regular basis
um the only reason why I do it though is
not not because of the health issues
because I'm so busy that I have no time
to eat uh from like six o'clock in the
morning to like eight o'clock at night
so I think fasting is one of the most
healthy things people can do as long as
they don't have you know diabetes or or
you know a risk of developing
hypoglycemia oh let's see if the lay
person can really get himself in trouble
here so if somebody came to me and said
I have diabetes I would say the first
thing you need to do is fast
and you're saying that that is a
dangerous answer
it could be because if they need to have
proper amounts of glucose in their
bodies uh they can actually have you
know a fair Fairly serious consequence
of having too low blood sugar but in
just in in a you know a broader uh
Spectrum what fasting does uh is it
actually increases heat shock proteins
um so it's why are they called heat
shock
ah very good question uh excellent
question by the way so what happens when
a person is under stress or when a plant
is under stress right uh the plants also
make heat shock proteins uh it's it's
really the wrong word heat shock
proteins they're basically environmental
shock proteins meaning that that extreme
temperatures of either kind hot or cold
will activate those proteins but anyway
so fasting I think is a great idea
um I am very much uh a a believer in
protein-based uh vegetarian
protein-based diets as opposed to sorry
real fast before we move off of fasting
the one thing I want to know when you
say fast you're talking 16 hours 24
hours 48 hours like what duration do you
then consider to fast and not just being
a space between meals
um I usually start fasting uh like
around six o'clock uh at night
and then I will eat something very light
for breakfast and then I won't eat
anything again for until dinner time and
the reason that it's healthy is that it
produces less stress uh particularly on
the liver which is you know primarily
responsible uh to metabolize the
proteins that we ingest and one of the
problems with the high protein diets not
that I'm against high protein diets but
that it produces a lot of stress on the
liver to actually uh you know to break
down those proteins properly and if the
liver is impaired in some way uh when a
person has a high protein intake that
may increase something called ammonia uh
which is a byproduct of protein
metabolism so you know one of the the
ideas here is that you know by resting
the hepatic function uh through less
consumption of of you know Foods on a
regular basis
reduces something in the body called ER
stress endoplasmic reticulum stress
which is at the level of the liver so
you know by the way a lot of a lot of
patients that I see have evidence of
fatty liver in association with uh
neurological diseases which is why I'm
very encouraged with something I
mentioned uh with Mark Hyman on the last
podcast I did about tutka tutka is a
secondary bile acid that promotes
hepatic metabolism that is being shown
to have potentially beneficial nerve
protective effects in a variety of of
conditions like ALS
very interesting okay so we're we know
we're doing fasting you were about to
say then what we want to eat
what do we want to eat right so I I
generally uh recommend the following a
third a third a third
a third of protein so think about like
uh three-fifths of food on your plate uh
one fistful should be against my opinion
only uh vegetable based proteins
um two are you know high quality fats
from you know nuts avocados uh olive oil
those those types of foods and then the
third from complex carbs like you know
fruits and vegetables that are very
colorful that contain a a wide variety
of what are called polyphenols uh which
are the things that like broccoli
cauliflower are able to uh repress
pathological genes through the process
we've discussed
as well as folic acid okay so what would
be
um
what would be a complex carb that that
though that is the one at least for me
that I have found just
essentially avoiding so would like where
do you fall on sweet potatoes which
would be my favorite but I find that I
put on fat when I eat them right uh what
are your thoughts on that or do you have
a better complex carb that you recommend
no I think sweet potatoes is an
excellent look I strongly believe that
if nature produces these types of foods
right grapes artichokes uh sweet
potatoes onions cauliflower uh you know
that these that have you know complex
carbs as part of their uh makeup that
they're not they're not unhealthy it's
just it's you know it's unhealthy or or
simple sugars not complex carbohydrates
uh that produce insulin resistance going
forward so I I strongly am a proponent
uh of those types of dietary factors
being incorporated into it so basically
the punch line there is if you're eating
Whole Food you're probably fine
but where you're going to get yourself
into trouble is when it's been processed
and the sugar has been refined out and
then added back into something is that
accurate correct and the same thing is
true with with meats and fish as well
because you have to look at not just the
the the uh
the the the the quality of the food but
the processing process that goes from
you know from Farm to Table that has to
be looked at as well
yeah one thing that I never thought
would matter is what your food ate
yep absolutely the same thing is true
for fish by the way as well I think we
we pay you know not enough attention to
to fish as a as a source of of course of
omega-3 fatty acids which are essential
uh but many fish uh people that consume
a lot of fish may have high Mercury uh
as a result of consuming fish
um
so it's you know like everything else uh
in life uh these kinds of issues are
very very complex uh uh and there's a
lot of variables that go into those
decisions uh for each person that
decides to follow whatever diet that
they want to follow so I'm I'm not you
know to be honest with you I'm a
traditional physician uh I you know
usually refer people to a dietitian for
questions about what I think is is
optimal dietary approaches to to these
conditions
um so uh but I have sort of a broad
understanding uh about what I think are
the proper uh dietary consumptions that
a person should have in general
Jim I'm sad that you don't do more
interviews uh I will say that you are
not a traditional clinician uh and I
think what you're saying now is and I I
completely understand and because I'm so
much more ignorant than you I am so
comfortable making guesses and drawing
conclusions
um
but while I get that you're not a
dietitian and all that and you're you
know hedging your bets about those
aren't my areas of expertise
what makes you so amazing dude is the
way that you're pulling these different
threads together and saying there might
be something here you need to look at
that there might be something here and
so for instance if I were diagnosed with
ALS tomorrow you would be my first phone
call
if for no other reason then you're
looking at things that not a lot of
other people are looking at
and so tying this now sort of finally
back into lifestyle
um
how do you think about these sort of
hopeless neurological cases that for
like autism in fact let's let's go with
that one that for so long people just
threw their hands up and you know once
it happens it happens and there's
nothing you can do and it's purely
genetics how do you think about a
problem like that
uh let's talk about ALS I've moved into
a dimension uh in my mind and in my
practice uh that where where people who
will not give up hope uh uh and and
believe that that whatever condition
that they have whether it's Parkinson's
or or ALS or you know I see some of the
most difficult cases in the world to be
honest with you and what I find most
humbling uh to me as a physician uh is
their sense of of not accepting nihilism
uh and their their sense of purpose uh
because many times I've I've heard my
patients say to me that I feel that
Parkinson's is a gift
and I'm like really I mean I would I
would be so angry at at God if I got you
know Parkinson's or ALS I don't know how
I would come to accept that uh as a
condition but uh they've done studies
and we've actually looked at people
who've had uh long-term survival from
ALS who had given a prognosis of like
three to five years who is still living
uh and I've spoken to some of those
those particular folks myself
uh and I want to give a big shout out by
the way to a non-profit called
Everything ALS that has really helped
the community of ALS patients uh realize
that that
we're not going to go down without a
fight on their behalf so everything ALS
is just you know an extraordinary
organization uh that is working towards
uh the ability to to not accept the
therapeutic nihilism uh that comes with
the diagnosis of ALS
um and what the common thread of of
long-term survivors has been a sense of
purpose and Faith uh in the ineffable
whatever you could you can call it God
you can call it a higher calling you can
call it
it doesn't have a name basically but
it's a sense of of a spiritual
connection to oneself and and and the
rest of the world that helps them endure
uh uh as a mind-body method of helping
patients uh deal with these conditions
um and it's something that you know I'm
glad you reminded me about because
that's sort of you know where I come
from as a clinician uh is is based upon
trying to uh you know for my in my own
life to come to accept that that
whatever problems that we have are are
to learn from those problems to to grow
as individuals and to and to deal with
them uh without running away from the
problem itself
yeah that that to me is sort of the
Nexus of
um why I'm so fascinated by you
is really bringing these disparate
worlds together so right before I do an
interview I always Journal essentially
on okay what is it about this person
that's interesting or unique or fresh
and that was the thing I kept coming
back to you with you is there's nobody
else that's like pulling these threads
together like up until this moment of
the interview no one would have any idea
that you have this sort of breathtaking
expansive view of
um God and our brain and sort of the
connection they're in
because you're still utterly motivated
by evidence and science but yet I could
have in this interview flipped it and
this could have been totally about faith
and meaning and purpose and you would
have been just as eloquent
um and I don't know there's something in
that for me in the open-mindedness that
has allowed you to escape the nihilism
which I find
useful and I think is really important
but then we get into uh connection and
Love and Hope and where do you come down
on that and do you think about that as a
clinician
every second of my life
um you know love love is is is is is
biology basically right uh when we love
we increase our endorphins which helps
us to uh bear whatever pain that we're
experiencing with whatever condition uh
my experience with people who have
conditions like ALS uh who have very
strong social support
uh through their families and and their
and their friends uh have much much
better uh prognoses than the same
patient same age same condition uh
without those social support systems and
you know just a quick aside Victor
Frankl who wrote a book uh he was a he
was a psychiatrist who wrote a book
about uh logotherapy was it was uh what
he developed uh he found evidence-based
uh that people were able to endure the
worst conditions and the Holocaust if
they had a sense of purpose they said
look I'm going to survive this no matter
what because I know at the end it's not
going to be reunited with my my kids or
my my my my my parents and the people
who had lost hope completely uh died uh
so the idea that that we can Infuse
medicine with a sense of of purpose
um is I think of extraordinary value
uh you know for everybody to to
appreciate
yeah yeah it's uh I don't understand it
I don't know why it's true but it is
experientially self-evidently true right
and right you know reading man search
for meaning by Victor Frankl was an
utterly transformational book for me and
I just thought wow like to think about
how there is
something some connection between the
brain and the body where when the brain
no longer has a sense of purpose in all
of this you actually shut off
biologically yes
and I wrote about that in the book by
the way I mean there's actually
explanations about how that happens and
why that happens as well
give it to us
so there are growth factors in the brain
uh their proteins uh that are called
neurotrophic factors like bdnf is one
example uh which by the way is what
exercise promotes and why exercise has
an antidepressant effect is because it
increases bdnf levels but there's a
direct uh association between experience
uh and cellular Pathways that results in
a inability to produce adequate amounts
of these neurotrophic survival factors
there clearly is a biological
explanation for how uh existential
states of hopelessness uh lead to you
know premature death and how existential
states of living a life of purpose are
able to overcome uh those on a
biological basis meaning that it's not
like a game of smoke and mirrors there
are explanations about how that actually
occurs biologically
yeah Jay you are so intriguing to me I
am so grateful that you took the time to
meet with me today uh you you are hard
to find on the internet but where can
people connect with you
uh well I have a a website that's pretty
you know
not a great website but it is what it is
it's
www.drj lombard.com
I highly recommend that people uh follow
you that they go to your website read
your books
um I have thoroughly enjoyed my time
researching you and spending time with
you today uh really really amazing man
thank you again for taking the time
likewise I've enjoyed speaking to you as
well
thank you guys trust me while he doesn't
put out a lot of social content this is
somebody the content that's out there is
breathtaking really intriguing and I
highly encourage you to check out his
books as well watch this interview on a
loop and then hopefully we will get him
back again someday and speaking of
things that you should do on a loop if
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