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you on the inside
hey everybody welcome to another episode
of impact theory today
we're going to be talking all about
leadership
leadership is one of the most
extraordinary skills that you guys can
master
it is incredibly powerful and i'm
telling you anybody can do it you do not
need to have
a gregarious personality you do not need
to be
an extrovert all you need to do
is really be willing to show people
by example what it is that is going to
achieve results and at the end of the
day
people will follow somebody who is
amazing at what they do
and then if you can layer on top of that
a few things we're going to be talking
about today you're really going to be
able to
knock it out of the park all right
without further ado
let's get right in so first question
comes hey tom
when you're leading a big team and you
aren't able to have close contact with
everybody in the team
what would you do so that distant people
would still be aligned with the values
of the company all right
that's an incredible question this is
something that i have
lived through so when quest was small
it was very easy for me to do what i was
saying at the top lead by example i was
there on the production line i would
take the hardest job
and we would literally agree what is the
hardest job this is the hardest job cool
if this is the hardest job i'm gonna be
the one that that's going to do it and i
would get in there and i would do it
with all my might and not only would i
do it
but i would uplift other people i would
bring energy and enthusiasm
and i'm an introvert by nature let me
tell you right now now
in fairness i have a pretty easy time
going to extroverted
so my default though is introverted now
by going on the line by encouraging
other people by taking the hard job
all of a sudden it was very easy for me
to
get people to rally behind me but as we
scaled the company
now all of a sudden there were a ton of
people that had never seen me
working like that so to them i was
almost a mythological figure
by that point i was creating youtube
content so
you know we had 3 000 employees many of
them had never met me
and so to them you know it was like oh
my god that's the guy that runs the
company or the guy that's on youtube
whatever
and it had a really problematic effect
on the way that they
approached me and so what i began to
realize is
you have to have a culture you have to
show people up close what gets results
intoxicate them with certainty okay
that's a huge
part if you really want to take your
leadership game to the next level
you want to make sure you know exactly
what needs to be done so within the
world of influence you're trying to have
you know where you're trying to go so
you have a goal very clear goal
you can articulate that goal this is
where we're going
and then you never and
i mean never let somebody outwork you
and when you have certainty on where
you're going
you tell other people what that is we're
going to go after this
most people live their entire lives
doubting themselves
doubting the path that they're going on
and even when
you know and some element of what i'm
saying isn't going to work out
but you believe to the core of your
being i'll adjust i'll figure it out
now you can intoxicate people with
certainty and just go like a bat out of
hell towards that thing
working in a way that nobody else is
going to match
and if when you do that you elevate
those around you
rather than say hey why are you losers
not working as hard as me
you say hey we're a team i want to lift
you up i want to help you
i want to help you get there okay so now
you establish that with those around
you in that near group you make that the
culture this is how we move here
this is what we're about so you're as
good as what you can write down
so you write down what that culture is
you let people know
what it means to be a part of this team
then when they get in you're encouraging
them you're elevating them
you start with the people closest to you
because
you've been able to write the culture
down you know which way they have to act
you hold them accountable you ask them
to hold you accountable right you're not
trying to be above this you're trying to
be in it
trying to show people what it means so
now you've got your core group
then they're going to have their core
group and then that core group is going
to have their core group
and now that influence goes down so you
definitely have to
set the example but when you scale you
have
got you have got
to get people to understand what the
culture is
get them to lead by example get them to
intoxicate people with certainty
get them to show people what it means to
have a goal and to go after it
and to live up to the standards of that
culture
and now when you elevate people and
you're lifting them up and you're not
trying to beat them down
then you get something really really
incredible
then people will follow you because it's
a game of elevation
it's a game of skill acquisition it's a
game of
goal accomplishment it's not [ __ ]
you're not wasting people's time you're
really making progress
and progress is one of the most
foundational pillars of human happiness
so you intoxicate them with certainty
you lead by example
and you make their life better because
they're actually improving
they're being elevated they're being
held to a standard for sure
but they're improving and they're making
progress
that my friends is how you scale
leadership
all right as a leader do you find
yourself guiding the team towards your
vision or leave it open
for co-creation okay so i definitely
love
having other amazing high-level thinkers
that can
challenge the notion but i want to be
very clear this is not a democracy
this is a meritocracy but my thing is
guys
i tell my team this all the time
i am not smart enough to think of all
the good ideas myself
here at impact here we have a gigantic
goal we're trying to build the next
disney
now disney has been around for i think
90 years they have
billions of dollars so
that is a very tall order to think that
we can beat you know come on what do
they have hundreds of thousands of
employees
so here we are with our 27 employees and
we're taking on
a 300 100 that could be more than that
300 000 people company with
a gazillion dollars in all the ip
practically in the universe
and we're trying to beat them at that
game
now i know that i'm not going to be able
to come
up with all the right ideas so i've got
to create an environment where people
can
speak to power where they can tell me if
they think something i'm doing is stupid
and i want them to talk nakedly raw give
it to me real
because here here is a powerful idea
when you're building a company you have
a real goal
you're actually trying to do something
and
you should value yourself
by not by being right but by identifying
the right answer
because you're actually trying to
accomplish something okay it's not
rhetoric you're not playing at it
this is the difference between a
entrepreneur and an entrepreneur an
entrepreneur says yo
i have to pay salaries i've gotta
avoid a mortality event for the company
we've gotta build towards
this goal that we have and the only way
that we're going to get there
is if we've got a lot of really smart
hard-working people that are focused on
that same goal
and the only way that you can do that
is if people are allowed to say what
they think they're encouraged to say
what they think
in fact at impact theory we demand
that people say what they think so this
is an idea that we got from
ray dalio at principles and
well ray dalio bridgewater he wrote a
book called principles which is where we
got this
you have to own your opinion you have to
speak up
or you have to get out and we do not
tolerate people
that won't speak their mind now from
that you're going to get a lot of bad
ideas and look there is
what rey calls and i love this phrase
chirping
where people don't know the whole
picture and so they come at you and they
tell you that you're doing something
wrong
but they really just are limited in
their scope of understanding of what
you're trying to accomplish
and for the most part you just ignore
chirping chirping is sort of the
the cost of creating a culture where the
next great idea might come from somebody
obscure
that you never imagined and so you want
to make sure that you create this space
for that you want to make sure
that the best ideas rise up through the
organization but at the same time you
want to make sure that you're not
wasting entertaining ideas
that don't make make any sense from
people that don't have
experience now if somebody is an expert
in the field
i'm really going to take time to try to
understand so we'll define an expert as
somebody that's
had success in that area three or more
times
okay so if somebody's had success in the
area that you're dealing with in that
moment three or more times
and i at first think their idea is crazy
i'm really going to stop and pay
attention and try to make sure that i
understand it
if somebody with no experience in that
area gives me an idea that i think is
crazy and i have expertise in that area
then i'm going to say
i'm super grateful that you took the
time to give me that opinion
for xyz reason i don't think it makes
sense and then i'm going to move on i'm
not going to worry about making sure
that they feel molly coddled or anything
like that it's like if you don't have
expertise in the area and an expert
tells you hey that doesn't make sense
then it's like be stoked that you are
inside of an organization that wants
your ideas but
recognize that in this dynamic you're a
student and not a teacher
and this is hard man this is really hard
for people but this is the [ __ ] real
stuff
like this is where you have to recognize
me as a ceo i've got to recognize when
i'm the student and so i'll put forth an
idea
if an expert in that space is like that
doesn't make sense for this reason i'm
like respect this isn't my area of
expertise
but when i know something then i'm going
to go to the mat for it
and so you you want to co-create but
within the context of a meritocracy
so never lose sight of that otherwise
you can get paralyzed
by trying to protect everybody's
feelings
this is where you come to be hardcore
this is where you come to be resilient
this is where you come to learn
where hey we want your opinion we are
desperate for we don't value ourselves
for being right we want to hear it
but if your idea is bad we're just going
to say it's bad and by the way i want
you to tell me
if you think my idea is bad i'm not
above that nobody's above that we've got
a goal we're going for the goal
and anybody that's serving that goal
that idea is going to win
every time but if all you want
is to be heard and understood then
you're going to get mowed over you have
to be more resilient than that you have
to be
you have to be like i want good things
for you i want to see you become a
badass in your life
but that means you have to get really
comfortable
with being wrong with taking a chance
and failing
with and then people telling you yeah
that didn't make sense and it didn't
make sense for this reason
and then now you've got more information
and you can move forward
so yeah i mean call this a warning
toughen up
toughen up toughen the [ __ ] up buttercup
i literally have a t-shirt that has the
initials for that
as a reminder to myself
i don't need people to hug me all the
time
pat me on the back congratulate me cheer
me on
i want to be elevated i want people to
want me to win but when what i'm saying
isn't going to work i want somebody to
tell me
and i have a core belief
any idea that can't withstand criticism
isn't a good idea
any idea that can't withstand criticism
by nature
is not a good idea you've got a hunger
for criticism to find out if your idea
is good or not you've got to seek
seek disconfirming evidence
you've not you shouldn't pursue
yes men you should pursue
as abraham lincoln said a team of rivals
you don't want people who are trying to
destroy you but you want people who
think differently than you
you want people who see things you don't
see and you want to celebrate those
differences
so often moving forward
is about the friction between
styles of thinking
and you've got to covet that friction
and most people are just trying to
eliminate it most people are just trying
to surround themselves with people to
think like they think
that's dangerous that will not take you
where you want to go
so i need a cool name for hardcore
rivalistic co-creation
because it's not co-creation in any sort
of hey everybody
everybody come and let's do this as a a
democracy
this is let's let these ideas [ __ ]
battle and i don't want deference
as the ceo in fact i ask for people to
criticize my ideas
publicly and aggressively now i don't
ask them to do that to other people
because most people are not prepared for
that
but i am and i want to set the tone
because i'm obsessed with my goal i just
want my goal to come true
i want to win and to win
you have to get really good and to get
really good people have got to play
against you with
everything they have but as a teammate
this is a team not a family
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inside
how do you detach yourself from feeling
like you failed if the people you were
leading failed
failing is inevitable but when we know
people look up to us
and some follow in our footsteps and
still fail how do we not feel like we
didn't fail them maybe you did fail them
i don't know that you should run away
from feeling like you failed them if you
were trying to lead them somewhere and
you did not lead them
and they failed then it's perfectly
reasonable to say
that i failed that person i failed them
for this reason and i need to get better
so that i don't fail them next time
the problem is people want to be this
perfect leader
right now today and i don't think that's
possible i don't think you're ever going
to be a perfect leader and even if you
had
the greatest leadership skill set of all
time and never before in human history
had there ever been
a leadership skill set like yours
you will still fail people from time to
time
so there is no such thing as flawless
leadership
so literally you can just discard that
idea get in the muck man get in the mud
[ __ ] just
battle fight do this [ __ ] set a goal and
go after it like get hard
go for something big and don't be afraid
to get cut up
beat bruised battered because that is
how you
learn you learn by being in the mix you
learn by saying hey
i will lead i will take the slings and
arrows i will be right at the front the
first bullet is gonna hit
me and i'm gonna learn
the great news is we're not actually at
least in this example
leading people into battle where they're
getting shot at
we're leading people into the unknown
we're leading them into whether it's
business danger
or emotional danger and at the end of
the day
sometimes people are going to get hurt
they're going to fail whatever they have
to be resilient they have to learn
but if you're willing to do that if
you're willing to
be the human equivalent of a battle axe
and get in there
try things hard things fail practice get
stronger
learn grow then over time despite the
scars
you are more capable capable
capable you can do things other people
can't do
i'm obsessed with that idea i want to be
able to do
things other people cannot do
now when you can do things that other
people cannot do
now you've got a real shot at whatever
it is that you're trying to do
i want to i want my name to echo through
the annals of history
no i don't need other people to want
that but i want that
and i know for me to actually pull that
off which by the way
my identity is not tied up in that my
self-esteem is not tied up in that i
could die
completely unknown what i value myself
for is the pursuit but i sincerely
pursue that and to sincerely pursue that
i have to become capable of things other
people are not capable of
i have to be so good that i cannot be
denied
that's my obsession i love that [ __ ] i
want that for you guys to both
be willing to play at that level every
day and yet not judge yourself
if you're not there yet that you only
judge yourself by the sincere pursuit of
something that you show up every day
playing to win trying to be the best in
the world at something that you care
about
being unafraid to lead to be out front
to fail people sometimes to own it to
say hey
i failed you and this is why and this is
what i'm going to do next time to get a
different result
and you will be shocked at how people
will follow you
more when you just own it
when you tell them what your plan is to
get better and they see you on the front
lines improving
people will fall in line i [ __ ] up all
the time
but on balance people see the rate at
which i improve
they see that i have a goal and i'm a
servant to that goal
and then i build skills based on what
will take me to that goal
and because i win on balance more than i
lose
people still follow
so leadership is not about perfection
it's about
progress
have you ever dealt with a bad leader if
so how do you go about it
yes i think we've all seen bad
leadership
and it depends on where you're at in the
hierarchy
is going to determine how you can handle
it now because i'm the ceo it's very
easy if somebody is displaying bad
leadership
you go and explain you're displaying bad
leadership and you explain what they're
doing well what they're doing poorly
what they need to improve on and how to
improve upon it
you just lay it out like i said at
impact theory
there is only one way own your opinion
speak up or get out
and that's not true for anybody more
than it's true for me
so i have to tell people exactly what i
think they're doing right what i think
they're doing wrong and then help them
adjust
if you are reporting to them
then it becomes a very different game
now i would
hypothesize that if you have a toxic
leader
somebody who is not going to listen
somebody who is abusive
whatever that you have two choices you
can either outperform
them and go around them which i would
never be shy or bashful about
or i would leave the company
but personally i would not just sit
there and suffer in silence
so at the end of the day you want to
play a long game so
um you know out performing i cannot tell
you the number i almost got in a fist
fight once
because i got hired at the same time as
another guy and just kept getting
promoted above him until i was a direct
boss
and he was very displeased
by that nobody i won't say nobody
most people can't handle that and
in that you have to figure out how to
get around somebody that's toxic
on the other hand if they aren't toxic
but they're just displaying bad
leadership
an open conversation with them is the
first place to start
give them a chance to improve based on
improved understanding
so coming to them and saying hey
i feel like you led me astray or i feel
like
i'm not getting what i need or whatever
the problem is
in very simple clear language
don't do it cruelly don't try to be
punitive
don't set out to make them feel bad or
stupid just say
hey here's what i'm looking for here's
what i don't feel that i'm getting
and i would love to discuss if there's
something that we can do so that i can
get these things that i need either from
you or from somebody else
but oftentimes people don't realize
where they're going astray
and oftentimes people have never had
that kind of direct and open feedback
now it is going to sting that is going
to hurt them and i would actually
encourage you
it might be worthwhile to get one of
their peers to come into that meeting
which of course
they're not going to love but you're
going to avoid a he said she said moment
this is where the culture of the company
comes in at impact theory
we tell people that they need to do that
so if you've got
conflict between two people you need to
bring
somebody in that can sort of mediate
that disagreement so that we can figure
out what's going on we are not an
organization where it's like
hey go tell hr you need to tell that
person
directly you need to let them know if
you don't get the response that you want
from them go to somebody else
this is not a company where you suffer
in silence this is not a company where
you
[ __ ] behind people's back this is a
company where you speak directly to
people now a lot of people can't handle
that
and i get that there are realities to be
faced about feeding your family keeping
a roof over your head all of that
there are also realities to be faced not
everybody's like that there are amazing
people out there that are extraordinary
leaders there are companies with
incredible culture
and you can find them but you have to
look
so in this particular example it starts
with very direct
open and honest communication done in a
way that is protective
so that you've got somebody else there
so that there's you know not going to be
some claim about insubordination or
whatever
and if you really are looking for a
solution and not just a punishment for
bad leadership
then you guys can work together and
hopefully get exactly what you want
but open and honest communication is
the path all right
if you don't like being a leader does
that necessarily
mean that you don't have confidence in
yourself or you always should think to
be a leader and think like them
man look you've only got one life to
live live the life that you want
live the life that is most joyful if you
want to be responsible for yourself and
not other people there is
nothing wrong with that know thyself
it isn't that being a leader is better
than something else
this is what life do you want to lead so
if you
know what you want to accomplish and you
don't want to be involved in leading
people that is
absolutely a-okay life
is about managing your neurochemistry
it's about how you feel about yourself
when you're by yourself
and so if you've got a skill set that
you want to get really great at and you
love it and it's sort of an inward
facing thing
it does not you know benefit or even if
it does
that it would be even better for you if
you were leading but you don't enjoy
that you don't want to be responsible
for other people
nothing wrong craft the life that you
want and live it to the fullest
so remember the punchline to life is
about having a joyful life
so it is not better to be a leader than
to not so
don't judge yourself on that just make
sure that you're constructing a life
that is built around your goals that you
know what your goals demand
that you're doing that and that your
life is joyful and that you have respect
for yourself
if you do that you're going to be a okay
whether you're a leader or
not what quality have you
found to be the most challenging when
being a leader
what quality for me
because i'm introverted by nature
because i am so
obsessed with my goals i
find that slowing down
to make sure that everybody else is with
me
that i've continued to articulate the
the approach as it changes because
you know when you've got a big goal and
you're learning every day then the
sort of nuanced way that you're pursuing
that goal is changing
very rapidly and it can be very
difficult for me to remember
hey not everybody wants to work as much
as i work not everybody is as
sort of obsessed with this goal as i am
but they're still amazing humans they're
still
just incredible contributors to the team
and so
as long as they are meeting that
standard i have an obligation
to make sure that they understand where
we're going that they're involved that
they feel respected and elevated
and the way that i explain it to people
is
if you're working on a project where
that's the focus for me at that moment
it's gonna feel to you like the sun is
shining on you because i have so much
energy
i have so much intensity i have so much
enthusiasm
that the truth is people just love that
they love
to feel like the sun is shining on them
but then as i move on to something else
that needs to be done
i still need your peace to keep going
but i'm trusting you now
to move that forward but when i've now
got the sun
shining on another part of the project
and it looks like now i only care about
that project and those people people can
feel
left out or left behind and remembering
to communicate that to them to
encourage them to make sure that they
have what they need to keep marching
forward with that
that they now have what they need to
lead themselves and their team
that's very important but i can get so
engrossed in what i'm doing
that i forget to go back and and manage
the
you know the humans that have all the
human insecurities and wants and desires
the desire to be seen and understood
and encouraged and all of that
so yeah that's been the thing that i
have struggled with
all right understanding where you
struggle understanding what you want
these are going to be a critical
part of the journey but remember
leadership is not about perfection
it's about progress it's about leading
from the front it's about being there
and doing it it's about understanding
how to infect other people with that
certainty with that culture
to get them excited so that they can
then infect other people and so that
this can really scale and become
something organizational remember that
you're never going to have all the right
answers
remember that part of leadership is
elevating other people part of
leadership is seeking
disconfirming evidence part of
leadership is recognizing this is about
the goal
i'm trying to lead you to somewhere
specific and when i fail
i'm not going to pretend that i didn't
fail i'm just going to own it and get
better
and that nothing nothing encourages
people more
than seeing somebody working their ass
off from the front
that's elevating other people and always
willing to admit when they're wrong
and to listen to other voices but in a
meritocracy
that's leadership everybody it's all of
yours to have if you want to build that
skill set
but there's no need to if what you want
out of life doesn't require it
build the life that fills you with joy
and remember if you're going to
respect yourself if you're going to have
self-worth you have to do something you
think is worthy that maybe leadership it
may not
but leadership like anything is a
process it is a skill
and you can acquire that skill to the
point where you cannot be ignored but
you're gonna have to put in the time and
the energy
all right everybody if this added value
to you be sure to smash that like button
be sure to subscribe if you haven't
already and until next time my friends
be legendary take care
thank you for watching this episode
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and i hope you will sign up i will see
you in the next live class alright guys
take care and be legendary