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Language: en
the most important thing to me is
realizing that you know you can have
intellect you can have aptitude and you
have to have a whole lot of luck as with
all things but at the end of the day
what drove my success and continues to
drive my success in the success of
others just curiosity because if you're
not really passionate about it and
you're not really curious you'll mate
you may learn what it takes to get that
next promotion or that next kind of
achievement under your belt but if
you're truly curious and you're truly
passionate about something it doesn't
feel like work everybody welcome to
impact Theory you were here my friends
because you believe that human potential
is nearly limitless but you know that
having potential is not the same as
actually doing something with it so our
goal with this show and company is to
introduce you to the people and ideas
that will help you actually execute on
your dreams all right today's guest is
the youngest person in history to
achieve nuclear fusion at the age of 14
on a unit that he began building in his
parent's garage with pieces he cobbled
together from discarded parts the
internet and uranium he mined by himself
he managed to smash together atomic
nuclei at such high velocity that he
achieved temperatures 40 times greater
than the core of the Sun becoming only
the 32nd person in human history to do
so but the time he was in high school
he'd acquired a deep base of knowledge
and at least 20 fundamental fields of
science and engineering
including physics chemistry radiation
meteorology and electrical engineering
by the time most kids are getting their
drivers license he'd invented the
world's cheapest Neutron detector
designed to stop terrorists from
smuggling in a dirty bomb
won the Intel Foundation young scientist
award won a teal fellowship and
developed a medical device that created
diagnostic medical isotopes that
dramatically lowered the cost of cancer
detection and since then he's designed a
radically new version of a nuclear power
plant that he believes is far cheaper
and safer than current plants and if
he's right the implications are
far-reaching the u.s. Under Secretary of
Energy Christina Johnson said that
someone
Kim comes along only once in a
generation as such in 2017 he was named
to the Hellenic group a global
think-tank aimed at tackling some of the
biggest problems that we face as a
civilization please help me in welcoming
the man Time magazine called the next
Einstein vice correspondent and nuclear
physicist Taylor Wilson
yeah good man thank you for coming on
the show researching you as madness
so creating nuclear fusion seems out of
the realm of possibility I think for
certainly for myself and I'm gonna guess
for 99.99999% of the people watching
this show what's the secret what do you
mean possible oh no interesting hobbies
I guess I am I just I decided I wanted
to do it right and that's kind of always
been my personality if I decided I
wanted to do something I was gonna do it
and so I I mean I got nuclear science
when I was 10 years old and decided that
there had to be a way for me to kind of
access those nuclear reactions and the
easiest way to do that seemed to be to
build a nuclear fusion reactor so just
took a few years of amassing the
knowledge that required to actually do
it so I can believe and I think most
people can believe that they if they set
their mind to it that they can achieve
it but they don't necessarily know the
process to go through to acquire the
knowledge what what does that
step-by-step process look like for you
yeah I mean for me of course like it
helped that I was incredibly like
passionate about like I was obsessed
with this stuff so I was basically
sucking up every little ounce of
knowledge I could and you know being a
child of the internet 10 or 15 years
earlier what I did probably wouldn't be
impossible right I grew up in Arkansas
and they kind of 10 or 15 years earlier
information I would have had access to
was what is available in the local
library so having access the internet
being able to email you know physicists
kind of in engineers all over the world
was very helpful and for me my kind of
personal kind of learning experience was
studying the history of it I I really
believe the best way to learn about a
topic is to learn the history because
even something as complex as say quantum
mechanics
which is very like non-intuitive it's
counterintuitive can be understood if
you understood the motivations of the
people who came up with the theory right
it was it was a pretty logical stepping
process of going from this concept to
this concept of this concept and even
though you end up with something that's
very esoteric and weird and
counterintuitive it was just kind of
guys that probably weren't that much
smarter than you making the logical leap
between one theory to another theory and
so by studying the history of nuclear
science from kind of earliest
experiments that demonstrated that there
were these fundamental building blocks
of nature called atoms
to being able to actually break down
those atoms into their components the
electrons and the nucleus with neutrons
and protons those experiments I very
kind of closely followed in and what I
did in the experiments that I did when I
was you know between probably eleven and
fourteen RIT so I read the book the boy
that played with fusion and which was a
book written about you for everybody at
home it's so surreal to hear that like
because he tells the book out of order
right so sometimes he's like flash
forward and it sort of you contemporary
and then he'll flash back and it's he
was a kid and I would lose like for a
minute I'd be thinking oh you're making
these homemade fireworks but you're
probably in your teens and then I'd
realize you were like nine yeah so like
when did you get comfortable with
playing with things that are either
radioactive or explosive was that
question I became comfortable and I
think my parents did it I mean I was
always interested in stuff that you know
what for better or worse was kind of a
little bit volatile like so as far back
as I can remember I was interested in
science but before nuclear science I was
interested in rocketry and space science
and I went to build rockets so part of
that was studying energetics right
energetic materials things like oxidizer
fuel mixtures things that go into rocket
fuel but you know it can explode and
I've always kind of had a personality
that's fairly cautious which kind of
seems weird because I play around with
nuclear material and explosives and
dangerous chemicals but I
lies pretty early on that if I wasn't
incredibly careful I wouldn't be able to
do that every day and make it you know
as far as I have now going back to the
notion of I want to follow the history
and I want to figure this out if you
were to embark on something new today do
you literally go to google and type in
the history of whatever you're about to
do or well it's a process right so you
know for me learning a new topic which I
like to do pretty regularly you know I'm
really lucky that I get to apply
something nuclear science to a lot of
different fields so depending on the day
of the week I'm working on energy or I'm
working on a medical application or I'm
working on an engineering project and
that way kind of every day I get to
learn something new about a different
topic and but yeah to go back to that
point partly it's it's it's getting the
overarching kind of themes of the field
and then for me kind of digging into the
personalities right so who were the
people that made the discoveries what
was their training what was their
background you know some of the greatest
discoveries and science happened from
people that weren't necessarily in their
own field but just kind of at the edge
of their field right so a biologist that
was kind of dabbling in material science
you talked about how a lot of Nobel
Prizes were given to people that were
either right at an intersection or
actually well outside of their field why
do you think that is well I think we all
get into a sense of thinking this is the
way things are and this is how they've
always been and it gives you into a kind
of a rigid structure of thinking right
and partly that's a consequence of human
psychology partly that's a consequence
of the way science is taught but if
you're a biologist you're taught this is
what we know about biology and you might
can investigate a new you know probe
deeper into a certain area or probe a
new area but it's usually when someone
takes kind of a paradigm shift or takes
a little bit of knowledge from an
external field and applies it and it's
something no one's ever thought before
right because your average biologist
doesn't know about the latest
discoveries in material science
he just doesn't that's not what a
biologists job is but if he's able to
take that discovery and be like wow I
wonder if this effect this force is the
reason that you get
is binding in this this molecule maybe
that's the reason that you know X
happens and so III do fundamentally
believe that the best scientists the
best engineers the best innovators are
ones that are able to take their
knowledge and apply it to other fields
or take knowledge from an external field
and bring it into an area where it
hasn't really been applied before do you
ever feel like your own thinking gets in
a rut on a given problem oh absolutely
what do you do to address that you can't
help but have that happen right and
partly for me it's going out and talking
to other folks that are doing other
things right so I'd say you know in my
day job I spend a lot of time meeting
nuclear physicists and nuclear engineers
and folks with that background but I try
to spend you a certain amount of time
talking to folks that are just radically
different than me right you actually
seek them out yeah yeah I go whether
it's to an academic institution
University Department of Energy National
Lab a company you know within industry
and try to talk to folks that are doing
really different things than what I'm
working on in hopes that they might have
a solution that I can apply to one of my
problems or vice-versa
you know that I have developed something
that might could apply to their their
area or their problem zone I imagine now
that's a lot easier for you you've got
so much credibility behind you you're
really well known in the space take us
back to when a you're not known in the
space be you probably sound like the
nine-year-old that you are like how do
you call people convince them like what
is that process because people struggle
even to get a mentor yeah like how did
you how did you find mentors how did you
convince people to give you equipment
all right well and you're right that was
a struggle basically until I achieve
nuclear fusion right there's a I guess
you call it credibility gap right like
people are like well like you know why
am I talking to this kid you know what
is what does he know but I also have a
personality where you know and I said
mind I said this before you know if I
set out to do something
I much do what it takes to make it
happen and so and sometimes it's just
being bold like I don't think most you
know PhD nuclear physicists or nuclear
engineers say a professor at a
university or director of
lab gets very many emails from a
ten-year-old and so partly it's just
being bold enough to do it and then for
me you know if I could get in the room
with them I I you know try to convince
them that I sort of know what I'm
talking about at least and do you
prepare like do you if you know you're
about to meet somebody do you prepare
ahead of time so you go in and like you
know who they are and what their hot
buttons are or is it just you're so
passionate about what you're doing that
you want to convey that yeah no I and
it's not even maybe that I'm trying to
convey anything I'm just I love what I
do like I love this stuff I love nuclear
science and science in general and so
being able to be in the room with
someone who has knowledge about
something that I'd known is the best
feeling in the world being able to you
know absorb that knowledge from them you
know that transfer that osmosis of
knowledge I think that is one of the
best experiences in the world so if I
have the opportunity to be in the room
with someone who knows a whole lot about
a subject that's I'm in my element I
really enjoy that let's say that a
hundred people wanted you to mentor them
you obviously can't mentor them all what
would you look for like people ask me
all the time how to get a mentor so
what's your answer to that question yeah
I mean there are a few answers I guess
I'd have to that but the most important
thing to me and something that's been
incredibly helpful to me over the years
is realizing that you know you can have
intellect you can have aptitude and you
have to have a whole lot of luck as with
all things but at the end of the day
what drives I think what drove my
success and continues to drive my
success in the success of others just
curiosity right being passionate
passionately curious about a subject
right because if you're not really
passionate about it and you're not
really curious you'll may you may learn
what it takes to do something or you may
learn what it takes to get that next
promotion or that next kind of
achievement under your belt but if
you're truly curious and you're truly
passionate about something it doesn't
feel like work right you'll do what it
takes to become good at something and so
I always get excited when I meet
students or people that contact me and
they're just incredibly passionate right
because with that passion they can
when it takes to be you know good at
science and good and innovating and good
in you know engineering you were gonna
give somebody two or three bullet points
because I'll assume that the people that
are but even know who you are
like they're they're gonna have a level
of enthusiasm and passion for this so
beyond that like what becomes the next
filtering criteria like for me I'll tell
you right now if the person doesn't have
the grit and tenacity that you've talked
about yeah like that's huge but now like
how do you convey that to somebody right
I don't I can't detect it in an
interview which means that I have you
seen Fight Club oh yeah okay so Fight
Club to make them stand outside the door
for four days in the rain right so I'm
always trying to think like what's my
version of that because I want to know
is the person gonna stick with it right
um well you're completely right about
that I mean passion can only take you so
far I I do find though that folks that
have passion that takes them extra you
know the extra distance to become good
at something you know for me when I meet
someone whether it's someone I'm
interviewing to hire them or be a
student you know and that kind of mentor
relationship aptitude is important but
not that important finding if they're
passionate finding if they have taken
the time to learn about the side they
don't have to be an expert in the
subject but if they've taken the time to
at least get a basis and what they're
talking about I think that's important
you know there's a lot of people that
and to some degree I was that person you
know before I found nuclear science I
was interested in biology I was
interested in Space Science I was
interested in rocketry I was interested
in all these different fields and
there's nothing wrong with that but I
think you know you sometimes bump around
things until you finally find the things
that sticks and maybe it goes to what
you're saying about grit and tenacity
you know finding someone who's really
stuck with something long enough to
really you know get a grasp for it maybe
not become an expert but at least kind
of know what they're talking about
that's usually a good kind of dividing
line between I think the people that
have the you know the right stuff and
the people that may still be finding you
know what they want to do yeah all right
you said something that literally the
brakes screech tin my brain aptitude
matters but not that much people
watching right now I promise they're
thinking this guy did nuclear
at 14 like he's just a genius do you
consider yourself a genius um I don't
know I look I think I probably do have
some natural aptitude for science just
like some people have natural aptitude
for you know music musical ability or
writing or all these things but that's
never been to me what set me apart right
there are a lot of smart people in this
world to me it was just being profoundly
curious right because you know if you're
it's kind of the difference between
learning something in the classroom or
outside the classroom right if you're
forced to take a class on philosophy
right you have to get that credit to
graduate and you sit in that class
you're probably not going to become an
expert in philosophy right there's just
there's not the motivation there to
become good at it no matter how much
natural aptitude you you may have and in
that way you know if you're truly
passionate about something like I was a
nuclear science it never felt like
learning right and so I was able to put
in the you know however many you know
tens of thousands of hours it took to
you know but basically get the knowledge
just to form a basis to do science which
is a lot I mean it really is a lot but
it doesn't feel like work if you're if
you're really enjoying it if you're
really you know passionate about it one
thing I found fascinating reading the
book was that your younger brother Joey
actually typically outscores you on like
aptitude tests yeah but his struggle
defined like that thing he cares enough
about to have the kind of success you've
had yeah I mean I like to tell people
that I mean I think Joey is is smarter
than me in pretty much every way like
Joey is a very smart guy but unlike me
he instilled this point I don't think
has discovered what he really wants to
use that aptitude for I was lucky I
found what I wanted to do when I was 10
years old I don't think most people who
are 25 or even 30 or 35 have discovered
that yet but I was just and and I think
every day like I am so lucky to have the
parents I had to have the resources I
had and to discover that and have that
spark when I was 10 years old it's just
about you know finding something that
you really enjoy
boy whether you're ten or you know forty
right it happens different points for
everyone and what do you do people ask
you about like how do I find my passion
or how do I develop a passion at all
yeah I mean it's hard to say for me
people ask me how did I become you know
interested in nuclear science and and
it's hard to pinpoint you know one
specific thing where it's like I read
that or I talked to that person and I
knew I think more than anything it was
just being incredibly curious about the
way the world worked sucking in all the
information I could about the natural
sciences and physics and chemistry and
engineering and then stumbling across
nuclear science and just for me being
like wow this is kind of to me I think a
combination of three things one it's
really cool it's like really powerful
right to me nuclear science is the most
interesting thing because it's as humans
just about the most energy dense process
that we can access right like the amount
of energy contained in a gram of uranium
relative you know to the massive amounts
of fossil fuels that the energy and that
uranium represents that's an incredibly
powerful thing and that was really
compelling to me
so that was one pillar if you will the
other was aptitude I kind of started to
do and I was like hey I'm kind of I kind
of got a knack for this right I got a
knack for applying equations to you know
designing experiments that's the second
pillar and then the third pillar would
be realizing that it was something I
could do that I enjoyed that I thought I
could make an impact with right because
there are a lot of things we can do as
hobbies that are fun right like sports
or wide variety of activities but when
you feel like you can make an impact
know a positive impact on the world
using that I think for me that's when it
kind of all congealed this is probably
what I would be doing you know for at
least the next ten years if not longer
it's interesting that you bring that up
but one of the most fascinating things
about your story was the way that you
reacted to your grandma getting cancer
and then talk to us about that how did
that manifest itself in what you pursued
and I think everyone when a terminal
illness hits feels very helpless right
you feel like you know why is this
happened there's not really much we can
do especially with the disease like
cancer with you know the medicine of the
time of the day but I kind of realized
that nuclear science was a powerful tool
and there existed opportunities within
nuclear science so this whole field of
nuclear medicine to really make an
impact on the way we treat and diagnose
disease and I think it was in that
moment and because of that event that I
realized that this was not only
something that I could enjoy and have
fun doing but could also make an impact
with and it kind of gave a mission you
know kind of a mission to what I was
doing and so that looking back I think
that was very formative and why I chose
to do you know what I did yeah I have
two questions off that one do you do you
ever feel helpless haha I don't like
feeling helpless you know if you really
delve in a psyche and probably my mini
neuroses I think feeling helpless is not
something I really enjoy I like to have
you know it's probably a control thing I
don't know but I'm very lucky that as a
scientist and engineer that I can really
take these tools of knowledge about the
way the world works and apply them to
solving problems and I think that's the
reason I am a very profound optimist
like I am very optimistic about the
future of humanity about the future of
this planet about all the things we do
you know is is dark as it seems
sometimes and as miserable as this world
can be and all the problems that we face
I have to remind myself that we are the
one species on this planet that has the
ability to use this thing you know our
brain to overcome problems right you
know any other animal on this planet an
asteroid is headed for Earth they're
gone they're gone but we exist as a
species in this unique time in our
evolution where we can change that we
could launch a rocket carrying nuclear
weapons and
the course of that asteroid and that
makes our species very unique that
ability to solve problems and every day
I get to meet very very bright very
impressive people from all backgrounds
in all walks of life who are working on
solving these kind of problems and when
you do that there's no way you can be
pessimistic about the future you've said
that you have too many things you're
interested in to tackle and one lifetime
how much does impact so you talked about
that with your grandmother
how much does impact factor into that
decision-making of how to rank sort of
hierarchically the things you care about
yeah I mean I'll just have to admit like
I don't think I always do a great job of
prioritizing what I do right sometimes I
do it because it's it's interesting
sometimes I do it because I feel like
you know it'll inspire someone to do
something else
I don't do great at prioritizing it but
I do try to think about what is the
impact of what I'm doing right how does
it contribute whether it's engineering
whether it's solving a problem like
energy or disease or security or whether
it's just simply you know doing science
and doing science for me is you know the
most fun thing I do the reason I ask
that is for me a lot of times you know
people are so I'll say you need to work
hard smart and long hours right that's
my like obsession those three things but
what's hiding in that always and forever
for me is love what you do like once you
love what you do I'm not like I'm not
saying go and slave yourself to the
wheel of pain I'm talking about
something that you love doing and
there's a lot of stories in the book
about where you wouldn't eat people have
to bring you food because you would just
get so in on something like that yeah no
it's true I mean when you do something
you love you kind of lose yourself in it
sometimes so going back to your profound
optimism for the future one what are you
working on that you're most excited
about that you think is gonna have the
biggest impact and then what does our
future look like well the future is a
very interesting place I'll say that
much it's it's exciting you know it's
always said that you know and to predict
the future is a very dangerous
occupation and I agree you know trying
to predict especially in the long term
humans or civilizations gonna be in two
decades or three decades or four decades
out bad that's very hard you know
technology follows exponential trends
and it usually branches off from an area
that most people are if anybody sees
coming but what excites me and partly
why I do what I do is because I get this
little window into the future you know
whether it's research that I'm doing or
someone I'm advising or group doing work
that I've come in and kind of taking a
look at I get this very like early look
at kind of what the next technologies
that are on the horizon are and it's
very exciting I think as far as what I
work on and the biggest part of my day
job you know is energy
the ability to create energy sources
that are non polluting that don't have
emissions that don't have harm to the
environment while at the same time being
able to electrify the you know one in
fifth person on earth that doesn't have
electricity that's very exciting because
there are literally billions of people
on earth that don't have access to any
electricity and if you can provide that
electricity to them at a lower cost and
a much lower environmental footprint
than what exists today I think that's a
very exciting future something that goes
into that also comes out of that is
access to information right I said this
before but what I was able to do at 10
or 14 years old growing up in Arkansas
would not have been possible without the
internet it just wouldn't I would have
been at the mercy of what was available
in my local library or if I was at a
college campus what was available in the
you know libraries of that college or
university and you know think about the
one in fifth person on the planet it
doesn't have access to any electricity
once they have access to energy it's a
very logical step to get them
telecommunications to give them access
to that Internet of information and it's
exciting to think about the people like
me in places like rural India or
sub-saharan Africa that don't currently
have access to the Internet that would
be able to learn so much become
passionate about a subject
become well-versed in a subject and then
able to innovate the next major
discovery that's going to change our
lives so of course there are downsides
to that downsides that'll need to be
managed like all new technology but the
ability to electrify and integrate into
the network of telecommunications we
have today those you know probably
really several billion people is going
to be incredible and that's probably one
of the things I'm most excited about so
I know that you've been working with
vice a lot which is actually how you
first got on my radar my wife and I were
watching a segment on energy ok and they
had you on it and I'm like who is this
guy like I was obviously freaking out
about the credentials and just how young
you were what do you think is media's
role in what you're trying to do
bringing the youth voice like is that
part of why your focus there look I
think you know as far as you know some
of the stuff like vice that I've done
and continue to do I think the more that
scientists communicate what they do to
the public the better off we are you
know unfortunately scientists aren't
typically the greatest communicators I
mean they're great at communicating with
other scientists but as far as
communicating with the general public
right they're not great and if you think
about it that's probably the one career
field on earth that it's the most
important to communicate I mean
typically scientists funding comes from
the public and the work they're doing
directly impacts the citizen the voter
the consumer and we think about things
as diverse from you know the environment
to to healthcare decisions the research
that scientists are doing are directly
affecting you know the average person
and if there doesn't exist an ability to
communicate that you're kind of losing
that knowledge to the place where it's
it's most important that it goes and and
look I think signs are really really
cool I mean I think you would agree
Sciences is this amazingly cool thing it
happens with the biggest coolest toys
humans have ever built and some of the
coolest places on earth by some of the
coolest people and mind you not people
that are you know seven-year-old white
men with crazy hair in lab coats
I mean it's a very diverse group of
people that do science and the more we
communicate that and the more we enter
that into the zeitgeist into popular
media and popular culture the better off
are gonna be because not only are
citizens and the general public gonna be
better informed on the issues but the
more young people that are gonna be
inspired to go and do science and in
some ways I kind of hope that's my
greatest legacy and I want to do a lot
of really big things with my life I'm
very ambitious I will try to do as many
as as possible or I have the ability to
do but I can only do so much but if I
can inspire 100 kids or 20 kids to
pursue science and technology as a
career the amount of innovation they'll
be able to do the amount of problems
they'll be able to solve and the amount
of good they'll be able to do in the
world that's a force multiplier on what
I'm able to do and so in some ways I'm
more excited about that than you know
any of the work that I do is being able
to be that voice to go out and say
science is really flippin cool and we
should really do something to promote
this so young people realize that all
right you said that you're really
ambitious there's a lot of things you
want to do what are other than energy
because I totally get it loud and clear
on energy but beyond energy what are a
few key things that if you don't
accomplish by the time that you leave
this earth or if you do me a favor and
end Aging which I would really
appreciate like what are those key
things you're like they just absolutely
have to happen energy is kind of the
biggest thing I focus on because energy
underlies so many things we do I mean
energy is the currency of our everyday
lives you know the currency of our
economy is the currency of manufacturing
the currency of healthcare sustainable
food production water resources all
these things are basically just a
function of energy and if we can
dramatically like by an order of
magnitude lower the cost of energy
increase the access to energy all while
doing it in a very environmentally
responsible and sustainable way I
already have that design like why isn't
that happening so the reactors are under
owned development development in like
and now we
get the government to buy in on it or
development like hey the government's
already bought in and now we're actually
making them a lot of just basic R&D I
mean building a reactor is a hard thing
it's not as straightforward as going to
Lowe's and picking up PVC pipe and a
pump and things like that there are a
lot of things with reactor development
that require a lot of validation you
have to subject materials to an
environment for pull long period of time
to see how they're going to perform I'm
happy with the progress I think it's
going to be something that is really
gonna come of age soon enough to make a
difference especially in the specialty
customers you know these reactors have
the potential to be a utility-scale
solution right but what I'm most excited
about are those specialty customers what
keeps you up at night what keeps me up
at night well that's a good question
look I think you know there are a lot of
advantages to technology right like
we've created these amazing lives that
compared to lives a hundred years ago or
a thousand years ago are prolonged that
are free from a lot of the the problems
that you know our early ancestors faced
but they haven't been without their
downsides you know technology typically
is always a two-headed coin right
nuclear technology is the the prime
example of that right we created the
ability to split the atom created the
most destructive weapons humans have
ever built nuclear weapons and it also
created this technology whether it's
nuclear power or whether it's nuclear
medicine whether it's some of the other
applications in nuclear technology that
really have made our lives better have
made really big advancements in the way
we live our lives there are a lot of
these so-called dual use technologies
that I think going forward in the future
we have to keep an eye on biotechnology
is one of those the ability to
synthesize an organism on command to
basically be able to program its genetic
code to serve a function is going to
have profoundly impactful importance on
our lives I mean the ability to
synthesize drugs the ability to
sighs new materials the ability to treat
disease and create a life of abundance
is all going to be enabled by those kind
of synthetic biology projects but it
also creates the possibility that you
could create a designer bug right a
disease a vector a a pathogen that could
target an individual or could target a
group or become more pathogenic than
something that exists today and that's a
scary possibility the same possibility
exists with artificial intelligence and
we were talking about this earlier but I
don't know where I fall in the issue of
general artificial intelligence narrow
AI narrow artificial intelligence
there's relatively you know artificial
intelligence applied to a problem you
know whether that problems security or
that problems health care that's
problems food management you know the
application of artificial intelligence
to that is much easier to not only know
where it's going but try to mitigate the
risk and mitigate the the negative
consequences of it generally I this idea
of super intelligence or or a
singularity or the ability to create a
computer that exceeds the cognitive
capacity of the human brain that's
something that's much harder to predict
where it's going and because it's harder
to predict it's harder to mitigate the
negative you know consequences of that I
don't know where I fall in this you do I
think it's a doomsday scenario do I
think it's a Ecsta central threat to
human existence probably not but I still
think it's something that we have to
keep an eye on just like you know I we
were in 1939 with the dawn of the
Manhattan Project and the dawn of the
new era and understanding of our
universe we embarked on a crash program
to develop nuclear weapons and literally
in a couple of years we went from a
theoretical concept to the ability to
create the most destructive weapons
humans have ever created and in that way
I think we sort of stand like we stood
in 1939 with nuclear weapons
potentially
with computing technology it will have
positive outcomes and will transform the
way we live our lives in a positive way
it may also have negative outcomes so it
is it is very important for the
scientists doing the research the
organization's funding the research and
governmental bodies whether those are
national or international to keep an eye
on it always reevaluating where the
technology is going out of curiosity if
you have kids what would you do to help
them foster the kinds of passions and
things that have been such a boon for
you look I definitely want to have kids
I'm excited to see what they do and a
way I hope they don't do at least
nuclear science if science at all I
don't know I think I think it's
important for me and I talked about this
before you know I am so incredibly lucky
to live the life I did I think in a lot
of other circumstances I would have not
ended up where I ended up the fact that
I had parents that never tried to
Shepherd me into any certain area they
always kind of looked to me of what my
interest was and tried to to fuel that
passion and like I said that that
changed over the years and then I found
nuclear science but that ability to
support whatever my passion was and do
it wholeheartedly and take me to Space
Camp and take me to National Labs to
meet nuclear scientists and giving me a
little bit of leeway when it came to
doing experiments while still you know
trying to keep me safe I think if I was
born into a lot of other situations I
wouldn't have had that so for me you
know I if I have kids when I have kids I
would hope that they can develop their
own passions and I can support that
because I think they will be the most
successful and they find something that
they love and are able to use you know
what talents they may have on that and
so I'm excited about that future how
would you do that though is it like a
shotgun approach or just make sure that
they encounter a lot of different things
or do you have a specific methodology
well I'm not a parent yet we'll see when
I get to that point what my methodology
is and I'm sure I'll have a perfect plan
and how
actually turns out but yeah look I think
partly it's it's making sure an
encouraging curiosity right so giving
them access to libraries of information
giving them the access to the
information encouraging that curiosity
and then once they found something they
were interested in giving them as many
resources as was humanly possible to
pursue that you know if they're
interested space I'm gonna take them to
Space Camp I'm gonna make sure that that
is priority for me as a parent to get
them there and expose them to people
that are doing what they're you know
what they're interested in I've always
believed that it's very hard to be
inspired to do something when you can't
really see yourself doing it right like
if you were a you know young girl of
color and the only scientific mentors
you have are these old white guys and
lab coats it's gonna be very hard to be
like you know what I see myself in that
person I want to be a scientist this is
cool and I think in that way getting
young people exposure to science and
what science actually is is important so
taking him to labs showing them people
doing the science and showing them kind
of the diversity of the people that are
doing science I think that's very
important because that's when that spark
happens like oh that guy or that girl is
kind of like me you know she looks like
me and she's having a whole lot of fun
doing what she's doing I think that's
what I want to spend my life doing I
think that is an incredibly powerful and
underutilized tool for for inspiration
how do you respond when somebody in your
lab says that something can't be done
I usually question them very very long
and hard about that and that happens you
know like all whether it's a student
whether it's someone that I'm working
with whether it's a colleague that that
I've engaged in a partnership sometimes
people are like Taylor that just that
that's not possible and I guess every
once in a while especially if it starts
but up against the laws of physics that
response might be valid but I give them
a long hard look a long hard questioning
session of is it really not possible or
have you just not thought up a solution
or have you not given it enough time or
is that just the
conceived way of thinking about the
subject you know it's it's um goes back
so so Elon Musk founded SpaceX in the
early 2000s because I really only had
this idea that you want to send a
greenhouse to Mars it's just kind of a
crazy idea if you think about it but
this idea that streaming back the
pictures would inspire people
well now fast-forward over a decade and
SpaceX his Space Launch company has been
able to create a class of reusable
orbital booster really for the first
time in the history of space flight a
fully reusable first stage orbital
booster that's something that even maybe
six or seven years ago if you went to
the Rocket community and asked people
would say it's crazy it's not the way
things are done it's probably not
possible and if it's possible it's going
to be way too expensive to be economical
and Elon and the team at SpaceX was like
this is something that is important this
is how we're gonna reduce launch of Kaah
the cost of launch it's crazy to be
throwing away these boosters after every
flight that would be like throwing away
jumbo jets after every transatlantic
crossing and they said we're gonna do it
and we're gonna do it and we're gonna
prove it's possible and we're gonna make
the economics work and I think it's
thinking like that that is not always
found within science that's not always
found with an industry and the more
crazy folks you have that push people
like that the more kind of radical
innovation like reusable rockets will
have because again Elon didn't know what
he didn't know right he didn't know
that's not the way it's done he didn't
spend his career in a rocket company in
a propulsion company doing rocket
engineering doing aerospace engineering
and so he didn't know that reusable
orbital class vehicles wasn't the way
things were done and because of that was
able to create a company that is now
doing that and has dramatically dropped
the cost of launched orbit and so I try
to encourage the people around me just
you know if you don't think it's
possible just give it another try you
sketch it out maybe try a different okay
and this
you come back to me again or maybe you
know three times from Howland don't have
a solution then then maybe I'll accept
that it's it's just not gonna happen
right now all right and how do you I'm
guessing in your career you failed a lot
like creating some of the things you've
created just seems inevitable how do you
think about failure how do you deal with
failure if I was in the lab today I
would probably fail I will have probably
profound failures in the future
hopefully none that are large and
dramatic and end up on the twelve
o'clock you know ten o'clock news but
inevitably I will have lots more
failures but that's what drives
innovation I mean some of the coolest
things I've done in the lab have been
failing to do what I originally set out
my original hypothesis or my original
experimental design turned out to be
just completely worthless
I couldn't do it or I screwed it up but
the outcome was something that actually
was kind of interesting that goes back
to some of the greatest scientific
discoveries in history came from people
that had kind of really bad experimental
design but discovered something that
they never intended that they never
thought of and so in that way you know
people talk about you know failure being
the catalyst of innovation or failure
being you know the way we've learned all
this stuff and nowhere is that more
prominent than in science
I mean science is built on failure if I
knew when I set out to conduct an
experiment what the outcome was going to
be a hundred percent there would be no
reason to do the experiment so a lot of
times in science and in engineering too
you know you're not going to succeed or
you're not going to prove your intuition
but what you do develop what you do
create what you do discover is going to
probably be something in some cases even
cooler than what you set out to do so
yeah failure is integral and I know
people say that all the time that's
almost become a buzzword like you have
to fail to succeed and all this stuff
but like that is a core tenet to science
is you know we you have to remain
curious like if you get convinced that
you know everything and that you know
you know everything about what you're
doing and you stop being curious that's
the moment you stop becoming
it's not being a scientist I mean to be
a scientist is to not know it's the
probably only profession on earth where
you rewarded for not knowing what you're
doing and so maybe it's a good excuse
but I think it's a whole lot of fun as a
job I love that all right before I ask
my last question where can these guys
find you online um that's a good
question I try to kind of not spend too
much time on social media but I do have
a website and probably in the future
will be you know kind of updating or at
least restarting some of these social
media channels because I think what I do
on a daily basis is cool to look at so
one of these days I need to start you
know getting that out there and I'll let
you know what I do all right sounds
perfect final question what is the
impact that you want to have on the
world well look I think there are a lot
of things I want to do we've kind of
touched on a lot of them I think energy
you know if we can really reinvent the
way we use and produce energy that's
going to be probably more transformative
than a lot of the things that I can do
with my life so if I can have at least a
small part and kind of transforming our
energy economy that will be important
but more than that I think you know if
we can inspire a new generation of young
people to pursue science and technology
as a way to make the world a better
place that'll have more of a profound
impact on the world than anything else
because science is cool and science is
the one thing I think that's really
gonna get us out of these problems that
we face today
you know we we're in a rut like we have
some big problems that we face
domestically and internationally and the
globe in general and science and
technology represents the tools to get
us out of those holes to dig ourselves
out of these problems and really make
the world a better place in the future
than it was in the past
so the more young people that are
working on that and getting to use these
really cool sexy toys the better of the
world is gonna be and so if I can have a
part in that that would be something I
would I would try to do okay thank you
so much for coming on the show man
you're incredible
guys all right on this one I'm telling
you the notion of profound curiosity
that is something I want you to burn
into your soul what I love is this guy
is the one tell
you that aptitude matters but it doesn't
matter nearly as much as you think and
if he was gonna have to trade it for
something and the funny thing is in his
family he has the examples where his
brother was actually out scoring him on
all the aptitude tests that they were
taking but because he had that thing he
had that passion that he had discovered
he had that profound curiosity which
used to get mentors which he used to
propel himself forward all of that that
was a real juice cultivate that in
yourself go out encounter a lot of stuff
let his story be the story of that let
people right now that don't know what
they want to do really look at that and
think about what are the ways you can
engage with something to discover the
things that you really want to do in
your life then don't take no for an
answer show his level of tenacity get
after it convince people persuasion this
guy is able to persuade people and I
think more than anything with his
infectious enthusiasm for what he does
fall in love with something get really
good at it put in the time and effort
don't take no rethink get outside your
comfort zone think about other things
come at it from a new angle and what he
said about failure is incredibly awesome
and it may be oft-repeated
but it is literally the foundation of so
many things not just science but hearing
it from somebody who's had that level of
success to say literally what I do is
all about failure is pretty incredible I
hope you guys were listening as closely
as I was all right boys and girls if you
haven't already be sure to subscribe and
until next time my friends be legendary
take care hey Thank You Man
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