Kind: captions Language: en hey everybody welcome back drum roll please superhero Theory so Casey what is it that draws you into the world of superheroes and Comic Cons and all that stuff um it's really fandom itself I wouldn't necessarily say it's superheroes for me specifically but it's sort of that community you have when you all come behind one story or one character or group of characters and I don't know that can make sense of community that you get at a convention especially so yeah I don't know it's just that collective like we're all on the same team feeling that I get from conventions it's really interesting especially now in today's world so it used to be you got that sense of community by going to the movie theater and it was seeing it in the public format that really like made you feel connected it was a shared experience other people were laughing they were gasping all at the same time and that was such an important part of the experience for me and I never in a million years would have believed that I would be one of the people driving the move away from theaters and now I'd much rather watch something at home and I have a really hard time like even dunkirk I really want to see Dunkirk but it's like ah there's just enough friction with leaving and seeing it on the big screen even though I know that is a movie that really warrants being seen on the big screen so man nobody is more surprised than me so it's really interesting I've never put that together that it it is fandom in and of itself and when I think about one of the things that we're trying to harness and one of the reasons that I keep like so we talk internally a lot about being confronted so the new show that we're doing needs to be con friendly it's not all around superheroes to your point but it needs to be con friendly and I think you may have put your finger on what it is about that that I like there's this nerd culture really has just gravitated towards the the group coming together as a collective celebrating that attachment to something to an ethos to a storyline to a character that I find really really fascinating but what's interesting is not all of it is around I fetish which is empowerment so what do you what do you think makes for something that's really popular in that world like why like twin peaks' that makes sense at comic-con but like friends wouldn't right so wow like what is that sort of ineffable quality that makes it con friendly well there's something I guess a lot of people would say there needs to be a fantastic element to whatever the property is but I think also it just has to be but Big Bang Theory the that's a special case I think because the show itself is about people who are fans of nerd culture alright first it's kind of a special case right ordinarily I don't think a sitcom would ever be at comic-con but they talk about going to comic-con so I think it's the past right but in general I think it's properties that have giant worlds so that you can really nerd out on the details in fact like just yesterday Jared and I were talking about Game of Thrones and Courtney was marveling that we spent a half hour just talking continuously because that's how big the world is if you're a fan and you find another fan you can just go on and on I could talk forever so and that's a big thing for me about going to Khan is I always feel like Oh almost like this is home and like everyone there is just so happy to be there even if you're fans of different worlds you sort of have that just that same I don't know kinship thanks hey thanks Cindy so yeah alright that makes no sense alright so you were saying okay so we'll start with Superman's do it um what I always liked most about Superman was actually Clark Kent which is why I wore this outfit by the way world's worst disguise for point down I'm fairly wait I'm like what are you really that good of a no no let's let's be honest I always loved Clark even more than Superman really that's interest I like he's so awkward and I think I always identify with awkward characters and then I actually have a quote from one of the creators of Superman Jerry Siegel about what they were going for when they made the character so if you're interested in what made Superman what it is here's one of the keys to what made it universally acceptable Joe and I had certain inhibitions which led to wish fulfillment which we expressed through our interest in science fiction and our comic strip that's where the dual identity concept came from and Clark Kent's problems with Lois I imagine there are a lot of people in this world who are similarly frustrated Joe and I both felt that way in high school and he was able to put the feeling into sketches so curious what you think about Superman is like a wish fulfillment character Wow so that is really interesting and I'm literally putting this together in real time yeah I've never thought about that before I have spent an inordinate amount of time fantasizing about magic genies and one of the reasons I used to ask people the magic Genie question when I was interviewing is it gets to their truest value system and because I have spent so much time thinking about it it was a release valve for me so the fact that I would never have superpowers like in that sort of grandiose way spending as much time as I have spent thinking about a magic Genie like some little part of me it it made it real right and I've talked a lot about the pacifying effect of fantasizing about having already accomplished your dreams and how I can actually spill over into the dangerous realm but when I say it actually bothered me like there's legitimate heartbreak to the fact that I will never have superpowers that magic Genie question always like oh if if I encounter that magic Genie Superman is exactly that like there's this sense of like fantasizing about being all-powerful invincible like the intoxication of invincibility to never have it like as somebody who's had anxiety the idea being invincible like nothing can hurt you is really incredible which is probably also why I think that the storylines that are intriguing in Superman all come down to robbing him of the wish fulfillment and putting him in an area where now he's impoverished again relationships emotion loss of family being alone isolation like I think there are unbelievable low budget stories to tell about Superman where all the superhero stuff falls to the background and his his like power becomes the thing that isolates them and getting to like it's kind of like Jim Carrey's quote I wish everyone could get rich and famous so that you would see that that's not the answer right like spending so much time fantasizing about Superman but then colliding with the realities of it wouldn't change anything like all the doubts and insecurities that you have about your worthiness and all of that like they would still be there because it's like this universal human trait about having a brain that's made up of a lizard brain of mammalian bein brain and a neocortex like it is the truth the the fragility of our worthiness which comes and goes you know so like Superman people not wanting him to be there or not thinking he's doing enough or you know all of those like Jesus like is it ever enough or not being able to get Lois Lane and knowing that when he's Clark Kent she won't look at him twice but when he's Superman and feels distant anyway I could really go off on that which I did not see coming and in fact the things because I also have Superman on my list but it's it's I think gonna be very different than the things you have on your list would you like to well I please go like you're you're really stirring things up for me here um well do you think we all have that Superman lurking within us then can we like if we're all caught up Clark Kent initially or if we feel like we're Clark Kent can we release that Superman identity is that should we be doing well I'll answer what your the words you're asking and then I'll answer what your you're actually getting at the answer to the words is no I don't think hiding in all of us is the Superman I don't think hiding in all of us is anything so I think it's really about development rather than discovery so you have to turn in and develop something now on a long enough timeline I think people can develop obviously not those exact superpowers but you can get to the point where you've accumulated so much knowledge and ability that you you can rise above other people and do things that that do appear sort of superhuman in in a realistic way and so understanding that difference and understanding the heartbreak of looking at humana be looking at all the people that you love and knowing that most of them will never even try to manifest their potential right and in this group it's it's very easy to lose sight of most people are like that like most of the people and this is why we get asked this question all the time what do you do when you love somebody that has a fixed mindset because they're never going to go about and express that potential so I can't believe we're already at the halfway point so I'll leave it at that I never thought I thought 30 minutes would be tough to fill and now I'm realizing Jesus here's which is very interesting and I'd really I really really want feedback on this segment and look whatever our next segment is maybe we can push it a little bit I'd like to spend a little more time on this because so here's my thesis and one thing that I'm really really curious and I need your how many people are in the feed right now Jesus guys you can be so useful to us right now I really really want to know so one we wouldn't do it on this set because this this moment feels very in congruous for me when I'm used to being in such a different mindset on this particular set we're building out the new set and this was the moment that Lisa and I were thinking about when we were building out the new set in our minds was literally you and cosplay me like going into like some deeper [ __ ] and you're blowing me away right now with your insights and questions which is really really really cool and I want to know like if this stuff is meaningful to you this is really meaningful to me and searching through like why these kinds and it's not always gonna be superheroes but why fandom characters do create community why we become so obsessed with their worlds why I find it more accessible to talk about leadership in the realm of Game of Thrones then I have no interest in writing a blog article about the three styles of leadership until you let me talk about the game of thrones then I'm [ __ ] intrigued especially if I can use the imagery and clips so I really really want to know obviously sit back listen to the rest of this but I want to know if this resonates with you or not if we need to rethink this this is better for me than I thought it would be so keep going okay second hero well so are your diamond Superman okay so let me go into Superman just so we're not bouncing back and forth so it's really really interesting to contrast this so Superman to me was always my my guilty superhero was the one that never felt like it was okay to admit that I liked him because he's given everything and he didn't have to work for it and it's Anathem lets my entire belief system that you're not born you create yourself but he's born he's he's given all of this stuff by the Yellow Sun and then I remember in my time of crisis because I couldn't shake him I couldn't stop thinking about him I couldn't stop being inspired by that wish fulfillment which I had never put my finger on but the thing that finally clicked into place when you know back in whatever was 2007 that I had sort of my emotional crisis and realized I'm chasing money and what is this and I don't feel alive and my life literally feels this cliche is it feels empty and meaningless and totally devoid of purpose so why is Superman she keeps coming to my mind and I realize that it was about the Yellow Sun and while Superman is not the thing that I turn to to be inspired by strength Superman is the thing that I turn to to remember that each of us become superhuman when we find our Yellow Sun so when you take Superman the Yellow Sun he's just a normal person he doesn't have superpowers and the allegory in that is that the Yellow Sun is passion and for me when I can tap into passion like you you've seen me do it right I'll click over into something and then I feel capable of rallying people getting people excited to believe in the vision but if I can't click over into that I don't have the energy I don't the ideas aren't coming as fast my brain isn't firing as fast I'm not making these unique creative connections but when I click over into passion everything is different and I really do feel capable of the extraordinary and so that became this defining moment for me as I realized I was no longer gonna chase money I thought I just couldn't do it that I'd moved away from my Yellow Sun I'd spent so much time thinking about Batman right my life was reversed I was spending 80 percent of the time and the darkness thinking that it was good not realizing just how corrosive it was becoming and then I flipped it and it became about being in that Yellow Sun and finding my passion and having a mission and being awash in that thing that makes me special that makes any of us special and because that was so utterly profound and literally has become like that thing that sits at the center of me like you know with Iron Man where he's got that energy thing generating right at the center of his chest that was like the analogy is Super Man in the Yellow Sun so that's really the the driver for me that we all have kryptonite that makes us weak like what is that thing that's your that makes you feel badly about yourself or I hate the word trigger because that's really taken on some weird connotations but what's something that puts you in a dark place right and it could be something as simple as seasonal effect ation disorder or it could be your mom right like just some weird thing that draws you into a dark place a memory and abuse and childhood like whatever that thing is but we all have some kryptonite some thing that we have to get through and I love that that you have this image of this invincible being but there's that one thing right like everybody has that and no matter how powerful you are there's no substitute for human connections going back to the world that I want to see come to fruition first Superman would be that where his superpowers are in the background and and we're just looking at you know a tale of loss we're looking at like what what does a relationship look like for somebody that has accepted that kind of responsibility right what does that all look like and and and can he be functioning and Christian Christian Christopher and I've been up for a long time Christopher and I were talking about Superman too which is both it's my favorite Superman movie it's his favorite superhero movie where Superman loses his powers that's when it got interesting for me because now you get into the vulnerability and what does it mean to lose something to lose your identity to give up your identity Reich's he gives it up alright so I'm surprised at how much I could go on about Superman yeah all right who's next for you next is your shirt Batman nice you already started touching on what I wanted to ask you about so I think Batman's most like recognizable characteristic is the darkness so really and and it's just like it's such a key element to his character in the fact that he's sort of regarded as a vigilante by a lot of people his costume itself is very menacing on purpose as the bat yeah he does his deeds in the dark and he's driven by something very dark the death of his parents which could be seen as sort of just a vengeance tale versus what you would think a hero should be doing so I guess I want to ask you what you think of how he uses his darkness to do good because I know you think there's there's certainly motivational for lack of a better word elements to having a darkness in you and how you can use that to actually achieve something good so it the the Frank Miller version of The Dark Knight Returns where we see a haggard Batman an aged Batman who's given everything up in that pursuit to me is really the the ultimate vision where this leads he's done after chills he's done incredible things but he's given his life he's still breathing but he's really given his life and I think that's the truth of the dark side it allows you and the dark side is real okay that is and I think everybody intuitively knows that but there's so much association to Star Wars that I think people get lost in in fantasy and mythology when they hear that but within all of us is a reaction to it's it's a reaction of anger it's a reaction of hate we're all capable of rage like we all know that intuitively so when we're talking about the darkness that's what we're talking about it is a very compelling force and allows you to do things physically that otherwise you wouldn't be capable of so having that be the core of Batman I think is really really fascinating but Frank Miller's take of the corrosive nature of that is so important for people to understand because because it is powerful because there can be an addictive quality to spending your time there and the certainty of being outraged and being full of hate and the clarity that that brings that people can end up spending too much of their time there and in that telling of Batman where it really Rob's him of a chance to have a joyful life I think that's that's important and it's important to see both of those sides and Batman just the he's aspirational right we all want to be that badass I remember reading about I was talking to my business partner about this and he and I actually can't even remember if I read it or if he just retold it so well but that he reads lips in Russian right like that's Batman so he sees this Russian guy and he's talking and so not only does he know how to read lips but he knows how to speak Russian and that that was sort of that moment that really epitomizes like how hard Batman is trained how many skills Batman is acquired and doing all of that to serve something bigger than yourself but he has that one fatal flaw which is that he can't stop living in the darkness that is super intriguing to me so speaking about all of those skills Batman has no superpowers inherently he developed everything through strict training quiet he really really taught himself how to be a super girl and then additionally he was wealthy Bruce Wayne was wealthy so he could use his money to develop the Batmobile and all those you know weaponry and everything so what do you think about superheroes that don't have those inherent superpowers as like Superman as compared to someone like Batman I think that's a reason a lot of people love that man because he's just a man who developed those skills yeah honestly like I I would be a little surprised it's very possible that somebody could pitch a really compelling idea that we just have to develop where it's true superpowers but I find myself infinitely more drawn to people that don't have superpowers so in in the real comic book world daredevil has superpowers he gets toxic-waste in his eye and it's a time where it's sort of the radioactive thing and when I read it I set that aside and I just say this is a guy who's developed his hearing to the point where it feels like vision and he's learned to do echolocation because there are really people that can do that have you ever seen that blind kid that can rollerblade it's unbelievable and they have him rollerblading down the street and he's clicking clicking clicking he's like kirb kirb kirb kirb garbage can literally right as he comes to a garbage can click car car garbage can space it's so unreal and he's just doing it clicking clicking clicking but he's gotten so good at reading the literally the echolocation so humans are really capable of just absolutely extraordinary things and so having somebody who does super heroic stuff and I'm willing to suspend disbelief and you know accept that like look the dude would have punctured as long and be bleeding to death on the street right now in truth and I but I would rather that I would rather it be painted as this is somebody who through extraordinary effort has developed extraordinary skills and I really daredevil is actually one of my favorite characters because of that like once if if you will allow me to sort of step outside of Cannon for a second and say that it's something that he's developed just super super powerful so those are the kinds of when I think about us getting into superheroes I see it it going that way and one of the superheroes I want to do I was telling you guys it's based on a real story of this guy that slit his daughter's throat and I like all three of his children I think there were three girls if I'm not mistaken so let's all their throats and and dumps their bodies in the ditch but she didn't die for real and like what what does that person look like as a superhero right what do they look like when instead of being broken by that event which is exactly what happens to most people decides that she's gonna come back and protect people that don't you know aren't able to protect themselves and what does that look like what does she have to put herself through and how does she deal with a trauma like it there's just really something there but not making her a superhero but making her capable of super heroics so dare I say those are the sort of superhero tales we want to tell no question on impact theory no very calming yeah literally I mean that that's that's exactly it and you know I think there are other things that we'll want to do as well that aren't necessarily even around the ethos of being a superhero and I would love to bring a more manga style not not artistically but a more like everyday exploration because it's the serialization that I really like all right I can tell we're gonna go on forever now it's giveaway question starting in 1989 and in chronological order Jesus name every live-action film that's already been released in which Batman appears and named the actor who played him is this really like ultimate prize make the question this is in default Wow this this is hardcore so I hope we're giving something pretty amazing away for this one oh all right there you go this is for the fellow nerds out there starting in 1989 and in chronological order name every live-action film that's already been released in which Batman appears and named the actor who played him Wow all right cool how much time do we have or how much time are we over at this point Wow let us let us have like five more minutes how much over are we give us give us five more minutes so there's no please no no okay so do you want to select cuz I was gonna go to Wonder Woman next okay what you wonder woman okay because we haven't done Familia great so Wonder Woman so looking up some of the history of Wonder Woman I read that the creator his name's William Moulton Marston she first appeared in 1941 he said he created her as a reaction to the hyper masculine violence of other comic-book heroes and she alternatively would be a hero that values love and peace but would be just as strong and powerful as the male heroes so I'm curious then sort of if Wonder Woman is an example of a different type of hero if we translate that into a leader how can a leader express strength and power positively lead by that example wow what a great question and I would love to echo it with a tale of a female but I'm gonna give you a tale of Jon Snow and so talked about this earlier in the one of the other impact entertainment segments that we did talking about the three styles of leadership and the remaining characters of Game of Thrones and this is very much a spoiler alert so stop watching if you're not cut up on Game of Thrones I'm not gonna get specific not intentionally but I just always so worried about revealing something Jon Snow to me is the leader I aspire to be so if you think about the three leadership styles Rennae of Cersei you have Denarius and you have Jon Snow Cersei they're literally a spectrum so you have Cersei over here she's evil rules by fear is not hesitant to kill a whole lot of people and it maintains her power by being effective and I think that's important for people to understand like she there's economic prosperity in in her kingdom that's just true now whether that economic prosperity is simply because everyone is too afraid to oppose her doesn't matter there's economic prosperity so between being afraid of her and the economic prosperity nobody's pushing back but everybody wants her to fail not realizing of course that her death would create a power vacuum and then what happens in that power vacuum and we see that when despots are removed from power all the time you think you're better off without them but because they usually get replaced by another [ __ ] it's like you know it's a really gnarly situation to be in and reading revolution for dummies by bassem youssef was a real eye-opener for me so then in the middle you've got Denarius and Denarius is very benevolent she's a benevolent dictator she wants good things she wants to free people considers herself the breaker of chains but at the same time she's got three [ __ ] dragons behind her and tells you you have to bend the knee there's no if ands or buts you're either gonna be exiled or killed so there is fear now people do love her but they also fear her and then the third style is Jon Snow and Jon is leading from the front that's the most important thing about him he has a sword and he is in the mix with you and he's never gonna ask you to go first like he's gonna lead the charge in the Battle of the bastards I mean he's literally right there with total disregard for himself just going to you know take on the whole [ __ ] army so that there's something so inspiring like he's the only one I think that's inspiring Denarius maybe leaves you in awe because she's got the Dragons and she frees people and but he's inspiring you wants to rush to his aid but he's vulnerable and he's vulnerable in times of fear and failure so when you don't have the dragons behind you the you know army that you control or whatever and we see that and this spoiler spoiler spoiler alert he gets killed and it's not until he comes back from the dead that he's able to were able to see like what he does now and how he goes about earning loyalty but seeing him have to go through that betrayal is is really tough but looking at him and the and I think it the thing that I really really respond to in him is leading from the front and so when you think about somebody when you bring it into a business context in the you know the framework of Wonder Woman and leading with something other than just dominance and aggression like what does that create so he's an example of that there have really been other great leaders in business that have have taken a much and you know let's talk about John Paul DeJoria right who we had on the show and who's a great example of really creating a welcoming loving culture where people feel cared for and respected and like they're a part of it and I think in like 35 years they've lost less than 70 people I mean that's that is bonkers so really speaks to the kind of culture that he's created so I think there there are paths and it'll be really interesting to see where the next 10 and 20 years brings as we have more women that are you know Sheryl Sandberg leaning into it rising to power really beginning to redefine what women are capable of in the corporate world I think this is going to be really really exciting to see how many of them adopt sort of traditionally male aggressive techniques which can work very effectively and how many go in the complete opposite direction I think we're gonna see a lot because of social media that can really be empowered and go in the complete opposite direction but there there is there really is a vulnerability to not having something that is the hammer right so it'll be intriguing to see you think part of the reason he he came to that leadership style is because he's not a born leader he never thought he would be a leader he thought it was the bastard he's Jon Snow well what's interesting as Danny or Cersei who kind of always thought they deserved it or it wasn't meant well I see it's it's the reverse he's the only born leader so he's just trusting his gut he's going off of instinct the others are using tactics and I guess they thought they were owed I guess is what I mean for sure for sure they they were destined for the literally born to be the ruler it's interesting yeah I think that some of this humility comes from that I think some of it comes from being raised as a warrior instead a politician so like none of that you know ever would have entered into his consciousness the things that he was raised on were to be a protector that if you have to do something bad that it needs to be done yourself like you need to be the one wielding the sword and not asking somebody else to do your dirty work so you know all of the things that were instilled in him that would lead him to always be leading from the front honor wanting to be proud of himself wanting to do the right thing you know really leading from gut instinct having risen from the bottom and coming to the top there's really two types of people that rise up to the top and say now I get a chance to step on the people below me and then there's a people were like I'm gonna break the cycle and I'm not gonna treat people like that and so it's it's always really cool when you see someone who's truly gifted and that's the thing about Jon Snow is he's actually a good leader he actually wins not always but he he really is a capable fighter if nothing else and a capable team builder so that's what's really interesting is the way that he uses democracy to get people behind him and all right I'm we have anything else on one room and I don't want to run out of time and I feel like I drifted right back there male characters and I was just gonna ask obviously we all know that the latest Wonder Woman film was massively successful and curious your thoughts on why now it took so long to get the film out there there have been plenty of superhero female lead films that have failed prior to this although there been a lot of action lead female leads that have succeeded the alien movie star wars all that so why did it take so long for a female superhero film specifically Wonder Woman the original probably most popular well I think some of that is just DC had a hard time with their universe and in really getting it together in terms of bringing their characters successfully to screen so and I can not at all speak to the internal drama that led to that so the the why now I don't know right time a lot of juice around the 75th anniversary I think they timed it well and I think they just executed a great film and I think that male/female doesn't matter or like you can really root for somebody who has a core set of values that they're gonna steer by that's it they have a sense of right and wrong they're fish-out-of-water they're having to learn and adapt and they didn't make classic mistakes right she's not ever saved by a man right so she really kicks ass takes names is a super empowered character and some of the criticism that was thrown at it I just did not feel even one iota while I was watching the movie she didn't seem dumb to me in the slide she seemed like a fish out of water like you're gonna be you're not gonna know things when you come from an entirely essentially different universe right so she was orienting herself more than I felt like she was dim-witted she never came across as dim-witted to me at all so walking out a movie had no idea there was negative feedback and so I was just like oh my god that was so fun at least it was like I loved it like we were both like that was amazing and so then hearing that there was some backlash I was a little bit surprised so I'm glad that the numbers speak for themselves and that it crushed and did a really good job I think the audience has spoken you know I I'm actually I've never read any of the comic books so I have a vague sense from like the 70s TV show but but that's really it so unfortunately I don't have deep insights to offer but I think at this point we have to wrap time yeah so all right we didn't get to neo so yeah so I'm really mortified but it'll give us something to come back to all right so the giveaway winner is Christophe lo jeast I like we're gonna say that's how it's pronounced Christophe lodgest congratulations man thank you guys for joining us for that inaugural episode of superhero Theory so I'm really really eager to see what you guys have to say about that in the comments this could be a really fun segment that we continue not just with superheroes but more pop culture or things like what we did earlier with leadership lessons and things like that all right so Casey thank you so much for coming in your outfit which was absolutely amazing I'm super super appreciative that was awesome so thank you very much you