Kind: captions
Language: en
welcome everybody to another episode of
after impact agent Smith is not here
today so I'm filling in some of you may
know me some of you may not know me uh I
go by Dr vaness
uh you're damn right you do and I I feel
so weird for me to say it when other
people say it I'm like yeah that's me
that's me but I'm going to say it now uh
so uh today Tom and I are going to be
discussing our most current uh interview
well not ours but Tom's with Jason
Maiden uh we have lots to say about him
and lots to unpack so uh and just a
reminder uh if this content is adding
any value to you uh we only ask that you
share whatever you have to say and your
thoughts to the community so uh I guess
we're going to just Dive Right In and
talk about Mr Maiden there it is and to
give you guys just like a little bit uh
of a preamble Dr finess and I were just
talking about doing a Tom and Dr finesse
hour of some kind pop culture related
around movies and space M which that
could be interesting so definitely drop
in your thoughts let us know we're going
to be building out a whole bunch of um
media focused content in the very near
future uh building out a new set which
I'm very excited about uh so yeah we
will see where that ends up but that
would be a lot of fun I think that's
going to be great um so first and for
foremost uh one of the first things you
said in the interview um you said that
he's a modern day Lucius Fox J Jason
Maiden is a modern day Lucius Fox and um
I guess if you could describe to the
audience cuz some people may not know
who Lucius Fox is describe who he is and
why Jason Maiden is a modern day lucious
Fox yeah for sure it's interesting he
actually calls himself the modern day
lucious Fox which I loved and that was
why I wore the Batman t-shirt that day
on set um he's really into comic books
and I think partly because he's so
artistic that may have been what Drew
him in the beginning uh to the world of
comic books and then obviously we
gravitate towards characters that
resonate with us in some way so Lucius
Fox is the CEO of Wayne Enterprises also
happens to be
African-American um and he's played by
Morgan Freeman in the movies and Lucius
knows that Bruce Wayne is actually
Batman so he's one of the very small
number of people that knows and he's the
one that leverages Wayne Industries way
I think it's technically Wayne
Enterprises leverages Wayne Enterprises
to create like the Batmobile and all
that stuff so that's all lucious behind
the scenes um I think the reason that
Jason considers himself the modern day
Lucius Fox is because he takes a concept
and knows how to make it real and that
was something that I really really found
interesting about him and he talks about
this in the episode is it's not enough
to draw a pair of shoes so Jason was
saying look I can draw but that's not
the same as designing designing has
intent behind it designing is going
after an audience trying to solve a
particular problem and so he goes
through in the episode of how he breaks
it down so if our like um beag our big
hairy audacious goal is to uh basically
mimic um oh God what did he call it
flight or lift Dynamics or something
like that I forget the exact phrase he
was talking about as like their grand
vision and he says how does that really
translate like really translate down to
a shoe and if it's the quick first step
and that's going to be our parallel
using the analogy of flight then how do
we actually get to that is it reducing
the weight is it finding um lower weight
higher strength um items like spider
silk and things like that and then where
in the world are they actually Best in
Class at dealing with spider silk so
that we can actually get it put into the
shoes and that was something that I
really really enjoyed about Phil
Knight's book um about founding Nike and
how often he was traveling to
manufacturing plants and as somebody
with a manufacturing background like
that's where this all gets really really
interesting and that's why I love him
referring to himself as a modern day
Lucius Fox because lucious Fox is
execution it's where the rubber meets
the road it's where taking that highle
concept which is where most people stop
they pacify themselves with the dream
they never move on to doing the hard
work of actually going how do I take
this drawing of a shoe and really turn
it into something is that my wife with
an alarm going off like did that really
just happen all right we're all going to
have to Heckle her at the end of the
show cuz normally she'd be the one
having a seizure on anybody
like your phones uh so that that to me
is is the juice man like when people
know how to execute that's everything
I've heard you say execution matters um
so I hope you've heard me say only
execution matters yes yes correction
only execution matters yes now uh so
Jason refers to himself as a modern day
Lucius Fox um I'm going to Loosely refer
to him as a modern day Jesse Jackson and
I mean Jesse Jackson from like the' 70s
and the early ' 80s cuz one of my
earliest memories is sitting around
watching the news with my mom in the
late '70s and seeing this man talk about
empowerment and motivation and what have
you and he would rhyme and even if he
wasn't rhyming he would put his words
together and I remember thinking like
man this guy sounds like someone off a
Sesame
Street but in a cool way I'm like he
just put his words together so quently
and and did he just rhyme and and I know
Jason didn't quite rhyme uh but it's the
way he constructed his words they hit
home and looking at the comments uh on
YouTube I'm seeing that people like who
this quote here this quote here and um
like one of the first ones that stood
out to me was when you're tested you
were given the ability to give a
testimony yeah you can't have a
testimony without a test and I remember
when we were watching it while you guys
were taping I was like oh and I looked
at you and I was like he's going to say
something something about it and you're
like are you a rapper whatever do you
like hip-hop yeah so any first of all
any quotes uh than any the quotes stand
out for you and what's your comment on
him and how he put his words I really
need to write them down because I would
do a disservice to try to remember them
now and I threw out a couple in the
episode but I was struck by that not it
not only when I was researching him but
live there on cuz I had I didn't take a
note on like oh man this guy should be a
hi-hop artist or anything but as he was
talking and I was experiencing it in a
way that I wasn't when it was just
research I was like God like this like I
didn't think Sesame Street that's a way
cooler way but I was like legitimately
one thing I think a lot about
is in a parallel universe I become a
hip-hop artist because I love language
so much and so and and I'll float this
out into the universe I took um a note
probably almost a year ago now I want to
work with a producer to turn like what
I'm doing impact quotes is phase one of
what I would love to see which is
essentially spoken word
over like real music that's been
composed for that so right now we I do
the impact quote in a bubble which by
the way those are done in a single take
we just [ __ ] burn through it um and
then the music we try to find something
that sort of matches and sort of goes
but I would love to do something that's
that's really all condensed um and and
really done together and so when he was
doing that I was like whoa like this guy
has taken a real step towards that like
the way he talks in real time I feel
like I should be writing music to like
go with just like his normal talk
exactly so and it because of that
becomes more memorable like to give you
an idea he like you said he wasn't
rhyming but this will give you an idea
cognitively of what the brain does when
it finds language that has like a meter
to it okay things that rhyme are
perceived to be something like 70% more
true like think about that I could tell
you a lie but if it Rhymes you it just
seems more true and the same I believe
even though the study was specifically
on rhyming I think they would find the
same things with like Cadence so um the
only to have a testimonial you have to
be tested right like there's just a a
balance to that statement so there's
there's um uh Rhythm there's uh the
number of syllables like if you actually
listen to a lot of rap songs you'll
notice they it doesn't actually rhyme
but the the symbol or the syllable count
that they've created allows there to be
a rhythm even though there's no rhyme
and so it still feels right and when
people have a an ability to bring that
into language that's when it gets really
really interesting and now do you
remember I I'm not sure sort of what the
political correctness of this statement
is but when I was in high school I
talked a lot about ionic MH and like
what is the vibe on that by the way
ionic is that like to say that the funny
thing is it's a term I have not heard in
forever I actually forgot about that
term but hey it was a legit term it back
when we were in high school a big thing
so when you and I were in high school it
was like aonic was the thing and there
was this group of um African-Americans
in my school and they used language in a
way I found so incredible and I remember
thinking the phrase that I kept thinking
was they have more fun with language
than I do and I was legitimately jealous
of the unique phrases that they would
make that they would change like the
tense of something so they would use
like an incorrect tense or much instead
of many but it sounded better and so I
was like wow
much like the French language like their
only rule is sound good that's that was
the vibe that I got and so I always
found that fascinating and that's what I
love about hip-hop is they prioritize
Rhythm they prioritize balance they
prior like they'll change the
pronunciation of a word to make it rhyme
and you like it better because they've
changed it oh yeah so anyway I could go
on a diet tribe on that forever but I
have a secret fantasy of doing that with
impact quotes Jason Maiden in real time
more than any human being I've ever met
in my life did that where there was just
like I wanted to believe and live by the
words he was saying just because they
sounded so right you're right there was
a Cadence and to your remark about uh
hipop and their language it over the
course of the last 2030 years it's
invaded our vernacular and I hear people
even just a common businessman would say
something and not even know where the
phrase came from right you know what I
mean and I'd be like that's from a a
particular song um in hip-hop in
particular there's so many I mean I can
we can go on and on about that uh but
yeah I mean that's that's fascinating
and uh about the rhyming thing and even
when you don't rhyme uh just the way you
put the words together cuz I whatever
got his Cadence and the way he put his
words together it made me listen and
I've noticed people uh remarking about
that um really fast can we just derail
on this a little bit more MH
so I been a fan of hip-hop for a very
very long time you and I've talked about
like early ' 80s hip-hop which is when I
really got into the scene again drawn to
it because of language I I don't have
synesthesia but I believe that those
things so synesthesia for anybody that
doesn't know is a mixing of the senses
the most common form of synesthesia is
number color so the number seven is
always red the number three is always
blue and because they have a another
sense associated with that they can they
can memorize like they one of the most
famous number color CES um also is he's
a number color shape sin and he at one
point I don't know if he still does but
at one point he had um the record for
the most numbers of pi memorized
something like
25,000 digits how is that possible it's
crazy right it took him something like
18 hours just to go through them it was
ridiculous and because of those
associations he has an easier time with
remembering numbers and doing complex
math in his head um Vladimir Nabokov is
one of the most famous authors who was a
caste and he English was his fifth
language and if you've ever read a book
by Nabokov that he wrote natively in
English you'll realize okay this guy in
his fifth language knows English better
than I do like by a lot it's kind of
demoralizing especially for me as
somebody who fancies himself a writer so
while I I am not a caste I do think that
it's a spectrum and there is and I would
bet that Jason is is along the Spectrum
like I am where words have texture to me
so um I'll give you a really easy
example the word bubble feels right
right like if I say bubble to you you
don't think anything sharp like even if
you and they they've done this
experiment where they'll they'll give
you two madeup words so it's not like
bubble which you can already Envision CU
you've seen bubbles in your life but
they can do this with madeup words and
they'll ask people which one of these is
sharp which one of these is round and
it's like 93% of people will pick the
same word even when it's totally made up
so I have a very extreme sense of words
having textures of feeling a certain way
of actually like bouncing or moving or
having more velocity so like when I'm
writing my intros um in fact I just one
that I wrote yesterday for Galloway the
I focused the language on velocity I
wanted it to have speed and because of
what he had been through and so I wanted
to convey that so it's like when when
you begin to tap into a language at a
different level I think you're able to
affect people on sort of an invisible
plane and that's where Jesse Jackson
That's where Jason maiden like they're
bringing some of those techniques to the
real world which I am I think is super
powerful and when I think about Jason I
really think this guy's got a shot if he
can succeed in business I think he's got
a shot of being the mayor and which you
talks about in the episode yeah MH and I
think that the thing that will Empower
him the most is his ability to affect
people on an emotional visceral level
with
language wow I mean again it's one of
those things you take for granted cuz
you think about some of our uh most
amazing speakers in history uh they
choose their words wisely they say
certain certain words they do certain
gestures they and they you know they put
they construct their sentences in a
certain way um and I remember God you
know even Obama like even before anyone
knew who he was uh for the most part
outside of Washington when he was at the
Democratic National Convention and
afterwards everyone was who's that guy
who spoke right uh we went there uh for
Tavis we went there to the show and
pulled people side and interviewed him
and that was the first time I believe
that Tavis had interviewed him I didn't
to get interviewed him before but that
was one of the first first things that I
thought about with him I was like man
the way this guy is putting his words
together and and it was like almost like
jazz cuz if you ever hear Jazz always
the thing about jazz people say like
it's all over the place and I know like
I've heard your comments on Jazz too but
you'll hear any Jazz offici 'll say no
no you got to listen in between the
notes it's the notes in between the
notes and I remember forever I was like
the hell does that mean the notes
between the notes H but as the more and
more I listen to Jazz and understand
Jazz I get it and I feel like people
like Obama and I can think of several
other people they treat how they talk
like jazz cuz it's not just the words
it's the pauses that he has and the
space between the words and the
sentences that he makes and we all know
that about Obama he'll be talking and
he'll
stop kind of put something out again and
you'd be like
oh like it makes you bounce so it's so
interesting to hear you say that and I
didn't think about that here I am
thinking like oh Jason Maiden is just a
smooth talker which he is of course but
he clearly uh knows what he's doing with
how he's putting his words together and
you as a speaker and going around doing
these gigs and gigs like it's music uh
but going around and speaking clearly
you understand that too more than the
average person and that's one of those
things I think people take for granted
and even in this moment while you're
telling me I was like man I've been
taking that for granted so that's
amazing yeah language is language is
insanely powerful and some of like you
were saying back in the day when the
only way you could reach Mass audience
was public speaking so people had to get
really good at that um I I missed that a
little bit I missed that there was um
just being able to give a talk that was
en rapturing that was captivating was a
way for people to really get people
going behind them because I think that
um when you are a good communicator
that's going to serve you either on a
mass scale or a small scale your ability
to get people around a shared Vision
which is one of the things that makes a
great oror um and that's not something I
think um people spend a lot of time on
but when I think about of my way more
than 10,000 hours of practice that I put
into communication behind the scenes and
I think other than this interview I
don't think I've ever talked this much
about um my obsession with words and the
way that I think about language and how
much time and energy I put into
practicing it looking up words when I
don't know them trying to extend my
vocabulary um I am I very much steal
from from um any group that I think is
having fun with language so an obsession
I had when I was in England was Cockney
rhyming slang and like that all of that
stuff is is really really fascinating
and I think that so I believe
intelligence is built not just um given
it birth but I I really really believe
that one's ability to effectively and
strategically use language pauses
inflection all of that um is a sign of
where your intellect is and that's why
we we find ourselves drawn to people
that can really like crawl inside our
minds and just grab a hold of us wow and
we're we're look we're an animal that
learned to pass on culture which is how
like knowledge Stacks so rapidly um
through language and so we're we are an
animal attuned to language even the way
that our ears work and the frequency
that we hear in is all around speech
it's designed to to capture like the
vocal range that we speak in so um yeah
there's there's a lot there and now I'm
really I'm being super indulgent but I I
hope people follow some of these threads
on their own Jeffrey Canada who I've
talked a lot about and hopefully one day
will be on this show yeah trying he
would be fantastic would be amazing and
his whole thing about looking at what
actually what is it
mechanistically that makes somebody who
grows up in the inner cities have a
harder time being successful than
somebody who grows up in a middle- class
family and when he just cut through all
the BS and realized it's the number of
words you hear by the age of five oh
really the number the number of words
you hear by the age of five and the
ratio of positive to negative that's it
he said everything boils down to that
and that's when he said the most
heartbreaking thing I've ever heard
which is I gave up on adults and now I
just look for women who are pregnant or
may become pregnant and I teach them
about reading to your kids and about
that r IO and it's supposed to be 70%
positive to 30%
negative and he said in the inner cities
it's not only do they hear M it's
something like the the numbers are
approximate but it's something like 5
million words in a middle class
household by the time you're and full
disclosure it was either three or five I
think it's five but 5 million words by
the time they're five and 70% are
positive 30% or negative in the inner
cities it's 3 million words by the time
they're five and it's 70% negative and
only 30% positive and he said that the
disruptive effect or not even disruptive
but the the way that it stops their
language centers from forming he said is
the real problem and then as you get
older you can't articulate yourself well
and he was like it's that is the problem
he said it really is that simple like
the ability to communicate is so
foundational that without it you're in
real trouble and then that makes
complete sense and I and I agree
and wow that's a it's an amazing stat I
have to look more into that um get him
on the show I'll go I'll go hella deep
with him um okay well on that note uh
Jason uh he mentioned that uh some of
the greatest entrepreneurs uh come out
of being uh you know part of the
disfranchise I love this and yeah and
that to me was just it made sense cuz I
mean I'll start by saying not that you
know that bitter guy who always thought
oh everyone who's rich and and has
something going on for them uh it was
passed on it's nepotism they got a spoon
in their mouth but you know the Yer I
got the more I I started learning more
about entrepreneurs and just even the
entrepreneurs who come through here it's
amazing how many of them thein Jane you
know what I mean John Paul deoria I mean
the list goes on people who are part of
the disenfranchise and the differences
they applied themselves and they use
that as the hustle to move forward and
it's wonder what your thoughts were on
that oh let's go deep now we're really
going to [ __ ] derail I love this so
much I'm so glad that Jason brought it
up so have you ever heard the phrase
t-shirt to t-shirt in three generations
no all right this just gave me the
chills so the the notion is generation
one starts in a t-shirt having to work
their ass off they're often times
certainly when this phrase came about
they were immigrants okay so the
Immigrant parents come here they're you
know their kids are wearing T-shirts
because they can't afford anything else
the kids see in human work ethic cuz the
people that leave their country they're
Brave quite frankly right you're going
somewhere totally unknown and 100 years
ago like you can imagine going to the
new world a big city like you to cross
the ocean a lot of people died just in
the journey and then getting here you
you probably knew nobody you knew that
you were going to be the Immigrant class
so there's going to be a lot of hatred a
lot of prejudice against you and you
were going to have to rise up just
through Blood Sweat and Tears their kids
see that so the kids are the ones now
that end up becoming successful and I
mean so we're we have to acknowledge
that the the inner cities eat most
people okay it just it's an absolutely
destructive
force but the people who make it through
that insane pressure cooker the people
that have it hard the people that have
to suffer when they come out the other
side they are extraordinary because
they've been tested they can give their
testimonial right so that pressure
cooker really turns certain coals into
diamonds and then they go on to do
something
extraordinary but their kids now have
grown up affluent they don't go through
the same pressure cooker and everybody
and this is the thing that scares me to
death about being a parent I know you're
every impulse is to make Ellison's life
as easy as possible yeah for it to be
happy and filled with joy and to never
know sadness but now let's get really
[ __ ] esoteric and let's talk about
the Buddha if you know the story of the
Buddha he was the prince he was the the
son of the king they or he may not have
been the son of the King was son either
the king or a very wealthy person he
lived inside this Palace never went
outside his father wanted to protect him
from seeing suffering and because of all
of that he basically is not living a
human experience he finally gets out he
sees suffering for the first time it
totally radically changes his world and
in that he ends up becoming the Buddha
because he wants to end suffering and to
do that he has to really understand
suffering so it's like
trying to remove people from the
situation is to deny the very thing
that's going to toughen them up right
and so what does the Buddha do he goes
Harden unsuffer fasting living this
totally monk life isolated life to
figure this stuff out but he has to go
through the difficulties the absolute
same thing is true whether you're
talking about um God take uh I always
return to to just growing up in the
inner cities is such a a poignant
example in in a modern context
Jay-Z um uh Dr Dre which if you watched
you've seen the documentary right the
defiant ones go watch the defiant ones
um absolutely phenomenal so interesting
to see Jimmy ivene um ju to POS with Dr
Dre and like how the different ways each
of them learned their lessons and just
really really powerful um Eminem like
all these people that go through this
insane hardship but it's what makes them
great because they know like I've got to
get [ __ ] extra extraordinary
something to get
out right and Jay-Z's story to me is is
the sort of the best of all of them of
somebody who doesn't set out to be a
rapper he sees a path to get out through
hustling through drug dealing he takes
it realizes this is maybe not a great
path starts doing music realizes Jesus
that's an even bigger dead end than um
doing selling drugs goes back to selling
drugs but then because he had gone hard
on it for a minute people knew how good
he was and so then they're they're like
just constantly going after him like
come on come on come come on you've got
to come back into this and then
obviously we know the rest of the story
and and it isn't a surprise to me that
given the hardship that he had to go the
man shot his own
brother right so like and hearing him
talk about how like he was thinking in
his head please don't make me shoot you
like those those hardships going through
things like that having to live a life
where
it it's even a thought to shoot your own
brother because you have to draw such a
brutal Line in the Sand to not be taken
advantage of in such a doggy dog
environment utterly astonishing same
thing with James Maiden right sees his
friend up close get shot in the face if
I'm not mistaken I mean just like crazy
like thinking about that people actually
grow up like that absolutely nuts but it
it pushed Jason to say I'm getting out
and the only path that I see is to
become extraordinary at something so
putting people through that difficulty
really turns them into something some
people right but you need that pressure
cooker so going back to t-shirt to
t-shirt in three generations so
generation one they're in the pressure
cooker and to get out a small number of
them become extraordinary because they
are just hell Bend to get out and they
realize the only way is to be so good
that people can't ignore you then their
kids grow up with no hardship their
parents are trying to protect the life
out of them and in wanting to protect
them they actually do them a disservice
and one of the reasons that leis and I
chosen not to have kids is I don't want
to have to do that I don't want to have
to put somebody through it's it I know
it's necessary and I can think of
nothing worse yeah
so because they don't grow up with any
hardship they're never formed into the
diamond it never crystallizes their own
thinking it never forces them because
this is just a truth of the human
psyche when you feel worthless when you
feel stupid when you feel in adequate
you either accept your fate which most
people do or you push back and one of
the greatest in fact I'll quote another
um impact
Theory royalty David Goggins oh yes and
he said the best thing that ever
happened to me is nobody came to help me
oh yeah yeah I love that the best thing
that ever happened to me no one came to
help me and then he realized I have to
do it and I think when you look I I had
the same realization right I didn't go
through his hardships not by any stretch
of the imagination mine was a personal
Battle of feeling stupid and I realized
nobody's coming to help me like I have
to find a way out of this and what I
began to dissect was what is the nature
of self-esteem and when I realized that
I could build my self-esteem around
something other than already being great
that that changed everything in my life
so but it only happened because I
remember laying on the laying on the
floor of my apartment with my face
pressed against the carpet being like
I'm a [ __ ] Bo
I I felt like I had failed at film
school I had a dead-end job this is I
was selling video games and I was like
where am I going I was the
self-proclaimed king of remedial jobs
but part of me knew that was really
[ __ ] stupid and so I'm
like where is this all going and if I
hadn't been that low where it's like
there there's literally nowhere to go
but up I never wouldn't I never would
have been forced to like think my way
out of the problem
so I'm grateful for that I'm grateful
that I felt dumb and inadequate and that
my life was going to end up like I felt
like solary I was just smart enough to
realize how dumb I was and that I I
secretly wished like couldn't I have
been a little Dumber or a little bit
smarter but to put me right in this Zone
where I felt like I'm condemned to see
how good it could be if I were smarter
and not dumb enough to just be arrogant
like when you meet like the really
arrogant people who just seem like
they're just so stoked on where they are
it's like dude you're not very good but
you seem totally blind to that fact and
so there was and it's foolish I
recognize that now but I was envious of
people like that that didn't seem to
have anxiety nothing like they were just
blindly moving forward so because I had
that it pushed me because Jason had the
difficulties that he had it pushed him
because Eminem because Jay-Z right like
they they all go through this and so
they they end up having a chance at real
greatness so uh first generation makes
the money second generation spends the
money and then the third generation's
back in a t-shirt because there's
nothing left and there's been no lessons
passed on to them and so your only hope
then is that that generation feels as
frustrated as the first generation felt
that build something and they've got a
chance to build something a new so
t-shirt to t-shirt in three generations
um you have to build difficulty into
somebody's life you can't uh want to
isolate them and put them in a bubble
because that's not the way the human
animal works we respond to stressors and
from the stressors from the tearing the
tearing down of the muscle the muscle is
then rebuilt but you have to have that
stimulus of of pain and suffering and
destruction like that's the only way
that some and this is why it's
terrifying and this may be what I always
found fascinating about Harry Potter
people die in Harry Potter
right like that was one thing I actually
respected about that series I was like
all right you're not safe in the Harry
Potter Universe right like there are
real consequences and so you have to
acknowledge that that's why it's so
terrifying in life because like maybe
the more you think about it You' be like
I actually want Ellison to to suffer and
not always be great and to be put in
these difficult situations but you're
never going to send him to um the
Outback in Australia to like well I hope
nothing gets you but man if you come
back right like do you know I don't know
if this is actually true but the the
certainly the legend of spara is that if
a baby seemed weak they would just put
it on a hillside it's like well if it
survives then it's tough and and we know
all is well and if it doesn't then they
were weak and it wasn't meant to be yeah
that's that's I I I would definitely
definitely never had the power to do
that let's put the baby out there
actually maybe in the first 3 months
when it was ridiculous and hard I was
like get this baby out of here um so I
mean I I I I do I mean that you went
really deep on that so it made me think
about a couple other things um so for
the disenfranchise the people who who've
had it hard and you know pull themselves
up and get out of there get out of their
situation and become you know even
greater than they could even imagine uh
what about um the bulk of the folks
because it still seems to be a small
percentage how do we and I'm not
expecting you to you know solve it I
like it set it up how do we solve that
problem for the for the mass you know
what I mean for the people who feel like
they're worthless for the people who
feel like they're at a dead end life who
just can't get out of that situation
that's what that's what I wonder about
you know Christopher a I'm super excited
that you're asking that question and
that you're doing it legitimately it's
not a setup B I'm horrified that you um
that I have done such a bad job
communicating the mission of this
company that you don't realize that is
the question that I asked myself saying
no [ __ ] what would it take to reach
people cuz the problem is mindset their
frame of references so a skew that they
can't see that the answer is they need a
different operating system
and apps are easy operating systems are
hard okay and most people in life they
try to give you an app so your operating
system is I'm a failure I'm a loser I
could never do this I'm not good enough
it's water right that that's why I use
the analogy of the operating system like
you never think of interacting with the
operating system the operating system is
what allows you to run all the other
stuff but if the operating system has a
problem everything else is going to have
a problem so but the operating system is
so ubiquitous that it becomes water and
that's what you have to and by that I'm
talking about David Foster Wallace
concept that this is water the fish is
the last one to realize that they were
in water that humans had to discover air
that it's so everpresent that you just
don't even think about it or gravity we
had to discover gravity it's so present
and ubiquitous that you don't even
realize it's a thing so in human beings
that operating system that water is your
mindset it is your core belief system um
Einstein said the most important
decision any human being will ever make
is whether or not the universe works for
you or against you and I think his
actual words were is a hostile or
friendly Universe um we all have to
decide we decide it because neither is
objectively true you just decide am I
optimistic or am I pessimistic or in uh
agent Smith Smith's case he's cautiously
optimistic Cop Out city copout city um
but that's like we all have to make that
decision right so when I look at the
masses and I say okay how do we pull
this off the answer is how do you change
the water they they cannot need to be
aware of the change okay if they can't
need to be aware of the change what are
the elements that make up their mindset
their parents their environment those
are the biggest so the only way to
change the parents is by changing the
water so sort of in Jeffrey Canada's
language I give up on the adults right
so um I consider myself a filtering
mechanism for adults there are some that
are going to immediately respond to the
Notions and they'll grab them and
gravitate and then some are just going
to be I know that if I can get the Next
Generation that those kids will
ultimately become the next generation of
parents and so now you've got the
parents just the Next Generation so it
goes like this the way that we construct
the environmental um water is through
narrative it's through all the cultural
stories that we pass on uh what are the
five dominant forms of narrative they
are books comic books TV shows movies
and video games so I want to make sure
that we're influencing that World um and
I'm tempted to put music in there people
talk a lot about music and maybe I'm
just setting it aside because I don't
have yet an intention to be involved in
that or maybe because I think that music
is actually drawing so heavily from
those other five that I'm better off
putting my energies there but I I will
merely point out look how many um songs
reference um Scarface look how many
songs reference Jordan belf for it's
like you know the Wolf of Wall Street so
it's I I think if if you influence that
stuff it will so Echo throughout culture
and that's the only way that I know to
do it where they don't have to want to
encounter it they just will encounter it
so it's the concept of don't try to
change Behavior try to leverage it so I
know people read books comic books they
watch TV shows movies and they play
video games I know that and nothing that
I say or do is going to change that um
because they tap into emotion they make
you feel something you covet the
experience you pursue it um so our whole
goal here at impact theory is to inset
people there so like this show like
impact Theory the main show is to me is
closer to um asking people to change
their behavior than it is to truly
leveraging Behavior but I know that we
can um by filtering out for the people
that are already coming and looking for
this kind of content we can build a
following the following is what gives us
power as we go pitch these entities to
the Hollywood system which does not have
the discipline to tell the right kind of
story in my opinion they just want to
tell any story that sells and hey I get
it we have to do things that sell us
well my thesis is that empowerment is
actually the easiest thing on the planet
to sell if it's embedded in something
else so that's the mission wow it's
great um I'm not saying I mean I'm
assuming this isn't Jason's immediate
solution to the problem I just presented
uh but it definitely helps uh and he had
mentioned that uh everybody in your
inner
circle um you should have at least one
person that does something better than
you and to me that was interesting
because I think I know per a lot of
people especially in this city and some
friends that I have who are the exact
opposite they want to be the top dog
they just want to be the person who is
is exceeding at everything um and doing
better than everyone else but when he
said that I mean it's something that I
think of but I I I think it's important
to have to learn from someone close to
you and someone in your inner circle
um and it kind of keeps sh on your toes
and fresh and I'm wondering what you
what you feel about that well I I love
it I think that's a really great idea
but I think the the more important
question is to ask why is that the case
for so many people and I think people I
have um made a name for myself by saying
the thing that everyone sort of secretly
thinks in the back of their head but
they judge themselves for and so they
don't want to say it out loud here's the
truth being the best is awesome and it
feels better than being the learner okay
right that's just the truth so I have to
do all these mental gyration to reward
myself for being the learner okay I have
to do exactly zero mental gyration to
feel good about somebody saying damn
like you're so good at that you're the
best ever right you come out at Birth
being prepared to like emotionally feel
that yeah yeah so like when Carol D says
reward the process um not the result
it's like rewarding the result is where
everybody goes there's something just
built into us we want to be the best and
uh so historical societies fell prey to
what's called dunbar's number dunbar's
number says any um tight-knit group can
only be 100 to 150 big and then it
splinters off um I think that's probably
about right and yes it's also because um
that's about the number of people that
you can have intimate relationships with
about the number of people that you can
really remember a certain amount of
history all that um I think it's also
about the number where you will as a
member of that tribe be better at
something than anyone else and so you
can really shine and feel good about
yourself you find your place in the
group where you just feel awesome okay
and that's how like that's the default
setting that's the water that's where we
all start I don't have to tell you A lot
it just comes pre-baked into you to want
to be the greatest at something to feel
good about that and so getting outside
of that is very very difficult so until
people acknowledge that that just feels
awesome and so now I know it's a trap
okay my brain has set me up millions of
years of evolution have moved me towards
this moment where I'm going to feel
great for that and so now how do I not
fall prey to that so I'll give it to you
in a relationship context on my tattoo
one of my um strongest things to my wife
is the word commitment because what I
had said so early in our relationship
was I'm always going to find other
people attractive you need to get real
comfortable with that now I know you're
always going to find other people
attractive now how do I know that you're
wired to like it is an evolutionary
thing for you to be attracted to a
potential mate period always but being a
human and having a prefrontal cortex I
know that you also can choose not to act
on that and that you can do other things
to make sure that you focus on things in
our relationship that are totally unique
to that shared experience is my personal
Obsession so that you can stay committed
did not act in accordance with that now
that's me I think about that the power
of that all that but one of the most
exhilarating emotional moments of my
life was when uh an attractive female
came up to me my wife was standing right
next to me asked my wife for permission
to pet my
abs that was [ __ ] awesome and you
were like right yes I was like hell yeah
I've told that story so many times
because you didn't have to tell me to
think that was cool uhh like you
couldn't stop me from being like exactly
and if you said it wasn't cool then you
you're lying that was cool of course it
was cool so but until you can
acknowledge what a trap that is that you
like that's how people fall prey to this
[ __ ] is like you've got to be so careful
just because it's real emotionally
doesn't mean that it's advantageous and
so really beginning to peel those things
apart so your friend who's in a group
and they want to be dominant it's
because it's awesome right it's that
[ __ ] feels so good and so like I'm not
going to judge them like I I totally get
it but inside my heart is breaking for
them because it's a trap now you're
never going to move on because here's
the reality of being around somebody
who's better than you like I I think of
you all the time because you're so good
at building a network you're so good at
like connecting people and like figuring
out like how you can help them how they
can help you and being strategic and
playing the long game like in fact this
is for everybody out there when the team
started pitching me people in the early
days of inside Quest I was [ __ ] so
hard hardcore like don't [ __ ] pitch
this person again they're absolutely not
right for the show I know what's best
for the show like look we're trying to
do something different here and over
time I began to realize they're so much
better than you at this and they've
snuck guess in that you didn't want to
interview and then in the research
process you start going whoa like this
person's actually really interesting and
then they come on set and they Bo blow
you away and I thought lesson learned
they're better let them be better that's
an amazing thing do not try to take any
Pride from like knowing what guests to
bring on the show trust these guys so
now when you guys pitch I'm like I don't
see what you see in this person here's
what I see but if you really feel that
this is going to crush I'm going to do
it is that absolutely true or not that's
true that's true and then when you
present that it puts the wait on me and
I think like okay maybe they won't crush
and then I backpedal right and I'm just
like yeah
okay but yeah that comes from knowing
that yes it feels good to believe that I
know best to believe it right not not
bravado it feels awesome to believe that
I have the best Vision but it's way more
powerful if it's actually true that you
have it because then you have leverage
if I have to be the best at everything
if I actually am the best at everything
then we're only going to go as far as my
skill set can take us but if I can be
surrounded by people where I'm the best
at some things they're the best at
others now we've got this Force
multiplier effect of we're as good as
everyone's best and that starts to get
really powerful so you're out there
getting better and better by the day at
doing what you do I'm out here getting
better and better at what I do every day
um and that's something that what I hope
becomes the the enduring core of this
company is that each of us are like that
person is best in class at what they do
cuz I know people are trying to hire you
right you told me that the other day
people are trying to like steal you away
so like my secret hope is cuz no one's
like I'm not going to win the battle
with just money so I'm hoping that
there's this other part which is you're
like do Thomas better than me at some
things and he's out there everyday
killing himself to keep getting better
and better and better at that but maybe
more importantly he's making room for me
to be best in class at what I do and
he's not trying to steal my shine and
that to me like you want to know one of
the things that I prize in a teammate do
they want their teammates to shine like
do they actually want sometimes to just
sit back and be like I want this
[ __ ] to shine and I want to tell
other people how they're crushing it
right that to me needs to be a core part
of what we're doing at impact Theory
where it's like it's something we talk
about it's baked into the culture like
if you don't want other people to shine
like you're just not going to fit in
here I don't care if you're the greatest
of all time like if you can't sit back
and be like hey this person shines at
this let's all stop and recognize let's
stop and recognize that this comp this
company would be fundamentally different
and worse if it weren't for their
contributions because it feels good oh
yeah to be great no that's uh wow that's
that's great that was an amazing answer
an amazing answer I love it um I'm going
to get to a question from Chris Barry
Chris Barry Chris Barry uh he said I
love the idea of doing a yearly
reflection that Jason talked about what
is the way that you like to wait what is
a way that you like to reflection
process for improving something you
leading with your organization I think
the way we facilitate learning from our
past really can set the tone for the
culture we are establishing or
reinforcing I'm especially interested in
facilitating reflection on what we have
done in the past to encourage the
adoption of a culture of empowerment any
tips on doing
that yeah so from the perspective of a
company that's that was the framing of
the question right um I will say this I
think reflection is absolutely critical
I think waiting to do it yearly is a
real mistake now I liked Jason's
breakdown I think it was I like I wish I
wonder um so I like that I did this I
wish I had done that I wonder if I did
this what would happen and I think that
that was really interesting I've never
heard anybody say it like that I like
that a lot um I am a bigger believer
in every day every day and cultivating a
crushing sense of guilt when you're not
doing it to have a list of the most
important things that you could be doing
at any time to move towards your goals
okay and in that is a built-in mechan is
M of reflection what what I'm doing now
is it actually working and that's what
you really have to do and that will
allow you to change your strategy like
in real time in real time in real time
agent Smith who just walked in hi agent
Smith um one of the things that we were
talking about the other day is our
current strategy with our socials is to
push every ball up the hill at the same
time and i' had been taking so much
pride in like how rapidly our ecosystem
wide thing is moving and then I just
started thinking but how does the world
really work cuz I I was sweating for you
right cuz I thought God he has to keep
going out to these guests and I know
every time you tell people ecosystem
wide we're like 250,000 like that's a
big number but then they're going to go
look at their
preferred one right so whether it's
YouTube or Instagram or Facebook and
they're only going to see say 75,000 and
they're going to be like wait a second I
thought he said 250,000 so then we're
asking them to like go do the math and
like add it up and people don't work
like that yeah so then aent Smith and I
were like maybe we should collapse all
of our efforts down to one everything
will keep growing as organically as it's
going to grow but in terms of putting
all of our time energy and resources
like what one do we do so that we get
one number up to a point of looking way
more powerful when somebody goes to
check it out um and I think we decided
what
YouTube yeah that wasn't a very
committed answer which is interesting
because I know why it's not committed
because he wants to test first respect
that's our Dynamic um he wants to test
for us make sure that the strategy is
going to make sense and then we'll go so
fire a bullet before you fire a
cannonball literally he is the company
conscience which I think is brilliant
that's funny I didn't I can't see him
but I heard his yes and I pictured him
doing this yeah that's exactly what he
did literally to that's exactly what he
did you were very on brand Jared very on
brand amazing so yeah um you kind of uh
harped on something that he talked about
yeah and something that I could jump in
real quick and say this is what I do uh
when it comes to booking because of
course with booking you're faced with so
many challenges trying to get people to
come to any show I don't care how big
your show is didn't you say better to
come back as a flatworm than as a Booker
like uh if reincarnation is a thing used
so many different terms uh with that
phrasing yes a homeless person a
flatworm a dog even though I think a dog
would be a great life um so yeah so uh
Jason says
uh you know you can hear no so many
times and and and but just figure out a
way to get them to say yes I mean remove
the excuses I think yeah remove the
excuses and to me I mean again it's like
there there's always an excuse and
people are always going to say no it is
for many uh not all but especially in
this business it's easy for someone to
say no and not have to deal with you
know collaborating or doing anything for
you or just ignoring you people do that
too but you just keep coming and coming
until you figure out a creative way for
them to say Yes um and I'll be the first
to admit sometimes several times you've
had to remind me about that I'd come
back and be like yeah you know the
answer is no for not you're like no no
you know you've got to figure out a way
for them to say yes figure it out and
every time you say that it hits home I'm
like man it's right and and that's my
philosophy but I got to get reminded
about it and I think people in general
should be reminded that you're going to
hear know a lot but it's easy to lay
down and be like they said no but no man
you got to figure out a way creatively
for them to say yes so I want to get
your thoughts on that I cannot tell you
how gamechanging the following game is
and if people would immediately adopt it
it's funny that I have this mug today so
this is the game no [ __ ] what would
it take I love that game so much and
when you actually stop and play it so
take Stephen King I am hellbent to get
Stephen King on this show you've been a
long-standing Ally it's not an easy
process and so I started saying all
right what do we need to do now I know
that the no [ __ ] answer is I need to
my thing is if you get me in the room I
can close it's getting me in the room
that's hard so if we can get me in the
room the reason is I meet people from a
place of genuine
appreciation and maybe more importantly
knowledge I know them I Stephen King
legitimately changed the course of my
life which I know he's going to want to
hear right that feels good going back to
the things that nobody has to tell you
to feel good about right for him to know
that he changed my life that because of
that I've I've succeeded at a very high
level but that he was the that first
lead Domino of getting me to
read so I know that the no [ __ ]
answer is I need to stand outside the
gate at his house like that's the truth
and until I do that I have not done
everything in my power um to do it
because in five minutes with him I can
get him to understand I know so much
about your artistic world like I've read
so many of your Works they've had deep
impact on me that they become a core
part of who I am so but I said the first
step is let me write him a letter get
him a letter mhm so I wrote him a letter
and I made so many references subtly in
the language of the letter that only he
would understand in fact you even pinged
me and said yeah I was like this is cool
I'll get it to him but out of curiosity
why
sigh s now anybody that's read The Dark
Tower series knows exactly why uh I
addressed it to him as Sai um Sai King
and there were other references and all
that kind of stuff and I I Lally had to
draw back cuz I was like you want to
seem like a fan without seeming like a
crazy fan so I was like I tried to walk
that line but no [ __ ] what would it
take right like to what extreme would I
have to go another thing that I could do
that when I'm standing like this is how
the game is played imagine when I'm
standing outside his window I'm on a
call here and I just say into the phone
now and three of the people that he
respects most in the world call him and
they just say look out your window
and he looks out his window and is like
oh my God there's like some creepy fan
outside he's holding the Juke Box above
his head right exactly and then the
person on the phone says you need to
talk to that kid for exactly 4 minutes
and 30
seconds I'm telling you it's worth it I
can't tell you why but you need to go do
that we could make that happen right we
could get to three people that are
important in his life that he would take
the phone call if it rang and it's about
finding okay who are those three people
how do I add value to their lives how do
I really and I can keep going but that's
the game that's no [ __ ] what would
it take you get to that thing where
you're like if that happened I know it
would work and then you back into like
how would we actually do that because I
know if I'm standing outside his gate
he's going to think it's creepy as [ __ ]
so it's like now okay if I know that but
I know I have to get in the room into a
room where he doesn't necessarily want
me to like I need people to vouch for me
now it's a lot easier to get other
people that are tangential to him their
satellite
where they don't have a fan base so
going and being meaningful to them would
probably be a lot easier than going
directly to him cuz there's a lot of
people clamoring to be meaningful to him
so and you just start chunking the
problem down like that that's really
important and that's what we did at
Quest how do you get people to eat
healthy make them want to eat healthy
like make them actually the act of
eating that food triggers all the same
dopamine release and all that that
eating a candy bar would do I think that
would work yes I know that would work um
how do you get people to change their
frame of reference even if they don't
want to have the things that they're
already consuming the characters that
they look up to be people that have an
empowering belief system so that they
just start adopting the phrases and the
quotes and all that that's empowering
versus the things that are um like there
was a a I don't watch TV now so I can't
tell you but there was a real time when
I was watching um comedies and stuff on
TV where it was like they saw themselves
as doofus as dumb asses um lazy people
that the man was holding them down and
so you just sort of quietly adopt all
those beliefs and not even really
realize it and so it's like having to
inject into popular culture way more
empowering belief systems all right we
have three minutes and I figure there's
no way we can get through this without
talking about uh Michael Jordan yeah um
I guess you know it's one of his Heroes
uh many people see value in
understanding Michael Jordan's psyche uh
one of the things that he mentioned that
stood out to me was uh you know the
Jordan era was the first time we saw the
athlete emerging as a brand um so I I
guess uh talk about the significance of
that well now you're talking the the
significance of anyone as a
brand is about what that person
represents so this goes back to as a
brand whether you're creating a personal
brand or whether you're creating a
protein bar whether you're creating um
an imper moer on your
studio that imp promod Disney impact
Theory Coca-Cola Nike like whatever that
thing is it needs to stand for something
Apple great example it needs to stand
for something you have to transcend your
products so if Michael Jordan's product
is that position he was a point guard
yeah so if his product is entertaining
people through the position of point
guard on basketball he's got to
transcend that and so what he came to
represent was Excellence now once he
represents Excellence now Nike can say
merely having him in our shoes makes our
shoes Associated to Excellence okay and
that's how that game works and when you
can make your brand stand for something
other than your products you can bring
different products in and out but your
brand still stands for something so
that's why I just do not understand how
every Studio on the planet is not trying
to emulate not copy Disney like we're
not going to copy Disney we do not stand
for the magic of childhood that's not
what we're going to be about we stand
for empowerment right that's it period
plain and simple but I look at how
Disney pulled it off so first of all he
is a human being stood up front that's
what he stood for he stood for like that
Middle America that small town American
Vibe the being able to leave your door
unlocked the the beauty the
trustworthiness of human beings the
optimism the the sort of polyani polyana
ism of life right that everything that
he did fed in through that lens right
you just knew that his movies were going
to have uh moral that they were going to
be about doing good and being good um
all of it like you were never going to
be surprised by a character who secretly
gets ahead by being a jerk never never
going to happen in a Disney movie the
the person who's a jerk is always going
to get their comeuppance in the end so
when you think about what impact Theory
means and how it's going to transcend
like we're not comic books we're not TV
shows we're not movies we're
empowerment and the brand will always
stand for that that's why we can do a
show like this that's why we can do
impact Theory but we're never literally
if we brought somebody on let's say John
Paul deoria who was amazing and oh God
when you watch this episode you're like
why can't there be more people like this
but if if in the end he was like Tom
look I'm just going to be really real
with you I got to where I am by I just
take advantage of people you you just
have to be prepared to step on people's
necks it's just the the way of the world
and you have to be prepared to do it I'm
not releasing that
episode right unless like in it somehow
I can flip it convince them whatever in
real time like I'm just I'm not
releasing an episode where it appears
that I or us as a Studio are backing
that mentality no [ __ ] way that that
is so a not what I believe and it's so
offbrand that it then confuses the brand
right so um there are a lot of rumors
about Jordan whether his Hiatus into
baseball was because he was actually
secretly gambling and all this stuff
and people didn't want to tarnish his
reputation and I don't know that that's
true by the way and let's just assume
that it's not I don't I want him to be
exactly what he appears to represent
which is Excellence um it's important to
have that it's important to have a
beacon that stands for that and that's
why I think people freaked out so much
about Tiger Woods is because they wanted
him as a brand to represent something
now as a human being it's very difficult
and it's one of the reasons that I
I refuse to not ever swear because I
believe in the power of that language
and I get it I am diminishing the size
of my Audience by doing so and it's
something I think a lot about and like
have to be very careful but I don't ever
want me as a person to represent
something I'm not actually so people
like Tiger's brand could have allowed
for this is going to sound crazy it
could allowed have allowed for
infidelity whatever he wanted because
you define who you are you define what
you stand for but if you're Vibe is
going to be like all wholesome all the
time and part of the reason that I swear
is to make it clear I do not stand for
like all wholesome all the time like
that's not me right um whatever you're
going to Define your brand as
like you have to hold true to that
otherwise you confuse your brand and
then people don't know what the [ __ ] it
is um and and it it diminishes it that
makes perfect sense it's like if Marilyn
Manson finally decided like hey you know
what I'm gonna come back and wear a
priest outfit or come back and wear a
priest outfit but now you have to be
completely consistent yeah exactly you
can't ever deviate you can't go back and
like confuse it all change your brand at
any time you may fall fine though that
your audience falls off at that point so
because now you have to reestablish
redefine rebuild but the one thing that
I think is absolutely Paramount for
longevity is
reinvention that's the only way right so
and that's something I think about us as
a studio is while I don't I can't fathom
I will ever believe that the way to a
fulfilled life is something that has
anything to do with something other than
empowerment but if I did cool I would
reinvent but even within the genre of
knowing that everything we're always
going to do is always going to be around
empowerment we're going to have to
reinvent and we will look very different
five years from now than we look now
certainly very different 10 20 years and
when I think about how long it's going
to take us to really overtake Disney as
a a cultural centerpiece the one really
creating the water it's going to take a
long long time so we're going to have to
constantly reinvent in that process I
agree I agree with that uh well we are
out of time uh are you have it lots of
deep thoughts out of the Jason Maiden
episode yeah I certainly learned a lot
from these talks with Tom so I hope you
guys did and wow boom thank you guys so
much for watching this was an awesome
episode Jason Maiden is incredible and
by the way if you haven't already
noticed I am wearing our latest addition
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1417 uh we will give you a free impact
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friends be legendary take care