Kind: captions
Language: en
the following is a conversation with
Ivanka Trump businesswoman real estate
developer and former senior advisor to
the president of the United
States I've gotten to know ianka well
over the past two years we've become
good friends hitting it off right away
over our mutual love of reading
especially philosophical writings from
Marcus aurelus Joseph cble Ellen was
Victor Frankl and so on she is a truly
kind compassionate and thoughtful human
being in the past people have attacked
her in my view to get indirectly at her
dad Donald Trump as part of a dirty game
of politics and clickbait
journalism these attacks obscured many
projects and efforts often bipartisan
that she helped get done and they
obscured the truth of who she is as a
human
being through all that she never
returned the attacks with anything but
kindness and always walked walked
through the fire of it all with
grace for this and much more she is an
inspiration and I'm honored to be able
to call her a
friend oh and uh for those living in the
United States happy upcoming 4th of July
it's both an anniversary of this
country's Declaration of Independence
and an anniversary of my immigrating
here to the
US I am forever grateful grateful for
this amazing country for this amazing
life for all of you who have given the
chance to a silly kid like me from the
bottom of my heart thank you I love you
all this is the Lex Freedman podcast to
support it please check out our sponsors
in the description and now dear friends
here's Ivanka
Trump you said that ever since you were
young you wanted to be a builder that
you loved the idea of Designing
beautiful city skylines especially in
New York City I love the New York City
skyline so uh describe the origins of
that love of building you know I think
there's both an incredible
confidence and a total insecurity that
comes with youth so I remember at 15 I
would look out over the city skyline for
my bedroom window in New York and
imagine where I could contribute and and
add value in a way that you know I look
back on and and completely laugh at you
know how confident I was but I've I've
known since some of my earliest memories
it's something I've wanted to do and I
think I fundamentally I love art I love
expressions of of Beauty in so many
different
forms um with architecture there's the
tangible and I think that marriage of of
function and something that exists
Beyond yourself is very compelling I
also grew up in a family where my mother
was in the real estate business working
alongside my father my father was in the
business and I saw the joy that it
brought to them so I think I had these
natural positive associations they used
to send me as a little girl renderings
of projects they were about to embark on
with notes asking if I would hurry up
and finish school so I could come join
them so I had these positive
associations but I came from something
within myself I think that as I got
older and as I got involved in real
estate I realized that it was so
multidisciplinary you have of course the
design but you also have engineering the
brass tax of construction there's time
management there's project planning just
the duration of time to complete one of
these iconic structures it's enormous
you can contribute a decade of your life
to one project so while you have to
think big picture it means you really
have to care deeply about the details
because you you live with them so it um
it allowed me to flex a lot of areas of
Interest I love that confidence of Youth
it's funny because we're all so insecure
right in the most basic interactions but
yet our Ambitions are so unbridled in a
way that kind of like makes you blush as
an adult and I think it's fun it's fun
to like tap into that energy yeah where
everything is possible I think some of
the the greatest Builders I've ever met
kind of always have that little flame of
everything is possible still burning
that is a silly notion from youth but
it's not so silly you know everybody
tells you something is impossible but if
you continue believing that it's
possible and have that sort of naive
notion that you could do it even if it's
exceptionally difficult that naive
notion turns into some of the greatest
projects ever done 100% you know going
out to space or uh building a new
company where like everybody says it's
impossible taking on that gigantic
company and uh uh disrupting them and
revolutionizing how stuff is done or
doing huge building projects where like
you said so many people are involved in
making that happen we get conditioned
out of that feeling yeah we start to
become insecure and it's we start to
rely on the input or validation of
others and it takes us away from that
sort of core drive and um and ambition
so it's it's it's fun to to reflect on
that and also to smile right because
whether you can execute or not time will
tell but um but yeah no that was that
was very much my childhood yeah of
course it's important to also have the
humility once you get humbled and
realize that it's actually a lot of work
to build I still am amazed just looking
at big buildings big bridges that human
beings are able to get together and
build those things that's one of my my
favorite things about architecture is
just like wow it's it's a a
manifestation of the fact that humans
can collaborate and do something like
epic much bigger than themselves and
it's like a statue that represents that
and it can be there for a long time I
think in in some ways you look out at at
different city skylines and it's it's
almost like um a visual depiction of
ambition realized right like it's a
testament to somebody's dream to not
somebody a whole um Ensemble of people's
dreams and and Visions um and triumphs
and in some cases failures um if the
projects weren't properly executed so so
you look at these skylines and and and
it's a testament to that I actually
heard once architecture described as
Frozen music that that really resonated
with me I love thinking about a city
skyline as an ensemble of Dreams
realized yeah I remember the first time
I I went to um Dubai and I was watching
them dredging out and and creating these
man-made islands and I remember somebody
once saying to me there an architect um
an architect actually who collaborated
with us on on our Tower in Chicago he
said that the only thing that limited
what an architect could do in that area
was gravity and
Imagination so it's it's you know yeah
but gravity is a trick want to work
against and that's where civil engineer
is one of my favorite things I used to
build uh bridges in high school for
physics classes you have to build
Bridges and you compete on how much
weight they can carry relative to their
own weight yeah you study how good it is
by finding its breaking point and that
was a deep appreciation for me on the
miniature scale of on the large scale
what people are able to do with civil
engineering because gravity is a tricky
one to fight against it definitely is
and bridges I mean some of the iconic
designs in in our country are incredible
Bridges so if we think of uh skylines as
ensembles of Dreams realized you spent
quite a bit of time in New York what
what do you love about and what do you
think about the New York City skyline
what's a good picture we're looking here
at a few I mean looking over the water
well I think the water is an
unbelievable feature of the New York
skyline um as you see the island on
approach and often times you'll see like
in these images you'll see these towers
reflecting off of the water surface so I
think there's something very beautiful
and um and unique about that when I look
at New York I I see this unbelievable
sort of tapestry of different types of
architecture so you have the gothic form
um as represented by buildings like the
Woolworth Building or you'll have Art
Deco as represented by buildings like 40
Wall Street or the Chrysler Building or
Rockefeller Center and uh and then
you'll have these unbelievable super
modern examples or modernist examples
like lever house and serum's house so
you have all of these different styles
and I think to build in New York you're
really building the best of the best so
nobody's giving New York their sort of
second rate work um and uh especially
when a lot of those buildings were built
there was this incredible competition
happening between New York and Chicago
for kind of dominance of the sky and for
who could create the greatest Skyline
that sort of raced to the sky when
skyscrapers were first being built
starting in Chicago and and then New
York surpassing that in terms of height
at least um with with the Empire State
Building so I love sort of
contextualizing the skylines as well and
thinking back to um when different
components that are so iconic were were
added in in the context in which they
came into being I got to ask you about
this there's a pretty cool page uh that
I've been following on X architecture
and tradition and they celebrate sort of
traditional uh schools of architecture
and you mentioned Gothic the tapestry
this is in Chicago the tribun Tower in
Chicago so what do you think about that
sort of the the old and the new mix
together do you like Gothic I think it's
hard to look at something like the
Tribune Tower and not be completely in
awe I think this is an unbelievable
Building look at those buttresses and
you've got gargoyles hanging off of it
and you know this style was reminisent
of the cathedrals of Europe which was
very kind of invogue in like the 19 20s
here in here in America actually I
mentioned the Woolworth Tower before the
Woolworth Tower was actually referred to
as the Cathedral of
Commerce um and because it it also was
in that Gothic style
amazing so this was built maybe a decade
before the Tribune building but the
Tribune building to me is is it's almost
not replicable it personally really
resonates with me because one of the
first projects I ever worked on was
building Trump Chicago which was this
beautiful elegant super modern All Glass
skyscraper right across the way so it
was right across the river so I would
look out the windows um as it was under
construction or or be standing quite
literally on rebar of the building
looking out at at the Tribune and and
Incredibly inspired and now the
reflective glass of the building
reflects back not only the river but but
also um the Tribune building and other
buildings on Michigan Avenue do you like
it when the glass the reflective
properties of of the glass as part of
the architecture I think it depends like
they have super reflective glass that
sometimes doesn't work it's distracting
and um I I think it it's it's one
component of um sort of a composition
that comes together I think in this case
the glass on on Trum Chicago is very
beautiful it was uh designed by Adrien
Smith of um Skidmore Owings and merilla
a major Architecture Firm who actually
did um the Burge Khalifa in Dubai which
is I think like an awe inspiring example
of of modern architecture but glass is
tricky it's you have to get the shade
right um you know some glass has a lot
of iron in it and get super green um and
that's a choice and uh sometimes you
have more blue properties blue silver
like you see here but it's it's it's
part of the character how do you know
what it's actually going to look like
when it's done like is it possible to
imagine that because it feels like
there's so many variables I think so I
think if you have a vivid imagination if
you sit with it and then if you also go
beyond the rendering right you have to
you have to live with materials so you
don't build a 92 story building glass
curtain wall and
not deeply examine the actual curtain
wall before purchasing it so you have to
spend a lot of time with the actual
materials not just um the beautiful sort
of artistic renderings um which can be
incredibly misleading um the goal is
actually that the the end result is much
much more compelling um than than what
the AR architect or artist rendered but
often times that's very much not the
case you know sometimes also you mention
context you know sometimes I'll see
renderings of buildings I'm like wait
what about the building right to the
left of it that's blocking 80% of its
views of the you know they'll the you
know Architects they'll remove things
that are inconvenient they'll so so you
have to you have to be rooted in in
reality in reality exactly and I love
the notion of living with the with the
materials in contrast to living in the
imagined world of the drawings so the
the both both are probably important cuz
you have to
dream the thing into existence but you
also have to be rooted in like what
thing is actually going to look like in
the context of everything else 100% one
of the underlying principles of the page
I just mentioned and I hear folks
mention this a lot is that uh modern
architecture is kind of boring that it
lacks soul and beauty and you just spoke
with admiration for both modern and for
Gothic for older uh architectur so do
you think there's truth that modern
architecture is
boring I'm living in Miami currently so
I see a lot of super uninspired glass
boxes on on the waterfront but um but I
think exceptional things shouldn't be
the norm you know they're typically rare
so and I think in modern architecture
you find an abundance of amazing
examples of of super compelling and and
Innovative building designs I mean I
mentions the bur Khalifa it is a
inspiring this is an unbelievably
striking example of modern architecture
you look at some older examples the
Sydney Opera house and you know so so I
think there's unbelievable there you go
I mean it's like a needle in the
sky yeah reaching out to the Stars it's
it's huge and in the context of a city
where there's a lot of height yeah um so
it's it's unbelievable but I think one
of the things that's probably exciting
me the most about architecture right now
is the Innovation that's happening
within it you know there's example of
robotic fabrication there's 3D printing
um your friend and and who you
introduced me to not too long ago ner
oxman which she's doing at the
intersection of biology and technology
and thinking about how to create more
sustainable development practices quite
literally trying to create materials
that will biodegrade back into the Earth
I think there's something really cool
happening now with the rediscovery of
ancient building techniques so you have
self-healing concrete that was used by
the Romans an art and a practice of
using volcanic ash and lime that's now
being rediscovered and is more critical
than ever as we think about how much of
our infrastructure relies on concrete
and how much of that is failing on the
most basic level so I think actually
it's a really really exciting time um
for innovation in architecture and I
think there are some incredible examples
of of of modern design that are are
really exciting but generally I think
Roosevelt said that comparison is the
thief of Joy so it's hard you know you
look at the Tribune building you look at
some of these iconic structures one of
um the buildings I'm most proud to have
worked on was the historic old post
office building in Washington DC you
look at a building like that and it
feels like it has no equal also there's
a just psychological element where
people tend to want to complain about
the new and celebrate the old
oh it's like the history of time so it's
just people are always skeptical and
concerned about change yeah and it's
true that there's a lot of stuff that's
new that's not good it's not going to
last it's not going to stand the test of
time but some things will and there's uh
just like in modern art there's and
modern music there's going to be artists
that uh stand the test of time and we'll
later look back and celebrate them those
were the good times yeah when you just
step back what do you love about
architecture is it the beauty is it the
function I'm most emotionally drawn
obviously to the beauty
but I think as somebody who's built
things I really believe that the form
has to follow the function like there's
nothing uglier than a space that is ill
conceived that that you know otherwise
it's it's it's
decoration and I think that after sort
of that initial reaction to seeing
something
that's aesthetically really pleasing to
me when I when I look at a um when I
look at a building or or a
project I love sort of thinking about
how it's being used so
having been able to build so many things
and um in my career and and worked on so
many incredible projects I mean it's
really really rewarding after the fact
to have somebody come up to you and and
tell you that they got engaged in the
lobby of your building or they got
married in the ballroom and um and share
with you some of those experiences so so
to me that's equally as beautiful um the
the use cases for for these unbelievable
projects but but I think I think it's
all of it I I
love I love that you've got the
construction and you've got the design
and you've got then the interior design
and you've got the financing elements
the marketing elements and it's all
wrapped up in um in this one effort so
so to me it's exciting to sort of flex
in all those different ways yeah like
you says it's dreams realized hard work
real
realized um I mean probably on the
bridge side is why I love the function
in terms of function being primary you
just think of like the millions oh my
gosh
Bridges uh go go down you
had look at that yeah this is Devil's
Bridge in Germany yeah I wouldn't say
it's like the most practical
to but look how beautiful that is yeah
so this is probably well we don't know
we need to inter some people whether the
function holds up but in terms of beauty
and then like like what we're talking
about using the water for the reflection
and the shape that creates I mean
there's an Elegance to the shape of a of
a bridge see it's interesting that they
call it Devil's Bridge because to me
this is very ethereal you know I think
about the ring the circle um life
there's nothing about this that makes me
feel maybe they're just being
ironic in the name that functions really
flaw yeah exactly maybe no but he's ever
successfully crossed crossed the bridge
yeah but I mean to me there's just
iconic I love looking at Bridges because
because of the function it's the
Brooklyn Bridge or the Golden Gate
Bridge I mean those are probably my
favorites in the United States just in a
city to be able to look out and see the
skyline combined with the suspension
bridge and thinking of all the millions
of cars that pass like the busyness like
us humans get getting together and going
to work building cool stuff and just the
Bridge kind of represents the turmoil
and the busyness of a city as it creates
it's cool and the connectivity as well
yeah the network of roads all come
together so the there the bridge is the
ultimate combination of function and and
Beauty yeah I remember when I was first
learning about bridges studying the
cable stay um versus the suspension
bridge and I mean you actually built
many replicas so I'm sure you'll have a
point of view on this but
they really are um so beautiful and you
mentioned the Brooklyn Bridge but
growing up in New York that was as much
a part of the architectural story and
tapestry of that Skyline as any building
that's that's seen in it so what in
general is your philosophy philosophy of
design and building and architecture
well some of the most recent projects I
I worked on prior to government service
were the Old Post Office building and
almost simultaneously Trump Dalal in
Miami so these were both two just
massive undertakings both redevelopments
which in a lot of cases having worked on
groundup construction Redevelopment
projects
are in a lot of ways much more
complicated because you have
existing attributes but also a lot of
limitations you have to work within
especially when you're repurposing a use
so so this um the post office building
on Pennsylvania Avenue was so beautiful
it's
unbelievable so this was a Romanesque
Revival building um built in the 1890s
on America's Main Street to symbolize
American
Grandeur and um at the time there were
post office being built in in the style
across the country but this being really
the defining one still to this day the
tallest habitable structure in
Washington um the tallest structure
being the monument the nation's only
vertical Park which is that clock tower
but you've got these thick Granite walls
those carved Granite
turrets um just just an unbelievable
building you've got this massive um
Atrium that that runs through the whole
um center of it that is is topped with
glass so so having the
opportunity to to spearhead a project
like that was was so exciting and
actually it was my first renovation
project so I I came to it with a
tremendous amount of energy Vigor and
and humility um about how to do it
properly ensuring I had all the right
people we had countless Federal and
local government agencies that would
oversee every single decision we made
but in advance of even having the
opportunity to do it there was a close
to
2year request for proposal like a
process that was put out by um the
general Services Administration so it's
this really arduous government
procurement
process that we were competing against
so many different people for the
opportunity um which a lot of people
said it was a gigantic waste of time but
I looked at that and I think so did a
lot of the other biders and say it's
worth trying to put the best Vision
forward so you fell in love with this
project I fell in love yeah so what is
there some interesting details about
what it takes to do renovation is there
about some some of the challenges es or
opportunities cuz you you want to
maintain the beauty of the old yeah and
now like upgrade the functionality I
guess and maybe modernize some aspects
of it without destroying what made the
the building magical in the first place
so I think the greatest asset was
already there m the exterior of the
building which we
meticulously restored and any addition
into it had to be done sort of very
gently um in terms of any signage
additions and um the interior spaces
were completely dilapitated it had been
in a post office then we was used for a
really rundown food court and government
office spaces it was actually losing $6
million a year um when when we got um
the concession to to build it and and
when we we won and and became one of I
think a great example of public private
Partnerships working together but the I
think the biggest challenge in having
such a radical use conversion is just
how you lay it out so the amount of time
I would get on that
Accel twice a week um three times a week
to spend day trips down in Washington
and we would walk every single inch of
the building laying out the floor plans
debating over the configuration of a
room the almost 300 rooms and there were
almost 300 layouts so nothing could be
repeated uh whereas when you have when
you're building from scratch you tend
you know you have a box and you decide
where you want to add you know potential
elements and um and you kind of can
stack the floor plan all the way up but
when you're working within a building
like this every single room was
different you see the setback so the
setback then required you to move the
pluming so there was no um it was really
a labor of love and to do something like
this and and that's why I think
renovation we had it with deral as well
it was 700 rooms over um over 650 Acres
of of property and so every single unit
was was very different and complicated
not not as complicated in some ways the
scale of it was so massive but not as
complicated as the old post office but
it requ requ ired a level of of
precision and I think in real estate you
have a lot of people who design on plan
um and a lot of people who are in the
business of sort of acquiring and
flipping so it's more financial
engineering than it is
building and they don't spend the time
sort of sweating these details that make
something great and make something
functional and you feel it in the end
result um but I I mean Blood Sweat tears
years of my life for for those projects
and and it was worth it I I enjoyed
almost I enjoyed almost every minute of
it so to you it's not about the flipping
to you it's about the art of the and the
function of the thing that you're
creating 100% what's design on plan I'm
learning you things today um when when
proposals are put forth by an architect
and and really just the plan is accepted
without and in the case of a renovation
like if you're not walking those rooms
the number of times a beautifully laid
out room was on a blueprint and then I'd
go to Washington and I'd walk that floor
and I'd realize that there was a column
that ran right up through the middle of
the space where you know the bed was
supposed to be or the toilet was
supposed to be or um or the shower so
there's a lot of things that are missed
um when you do
something conceptually without sort of
rooting it and um in the actual
structure and that's why I think even
you know with groundup construction as
well people who aren't constantly on
their job sites constantly walking the
projects there's just a lot that's
there's a lot that's missed I mean
there's a wisdom to the the idea that we
talked about before live with the
materials and walking the construction
site walk in the rooms I mean that's
what you hear from people like Steve
Jobs like Elon that's why you live in
the factory floor that's why you
constantly obsess about the details the
actual not of the the plans but the
physical reality of the product I mean
the the insanity of Steve Jobs and
Johnny I working together on like making
it perfect making the iPhone the early
designs prototypes making that perfect
like what it actually feels like in the
hand you have to be there like as close
to the metal as possible to truly
understand and you have to love it in
order to do that right shouldn't be
about the how much he's going to sell
for all that kind of stuff you have to
love the art because for the most part
you can probably get 90 maybe even 95%
of the end result unless something has
terribly gone arai by by not caring with
that level
of almost like maniacal Precision but
you'll notice that 10% for the rest of
your life you know so um I
think I think that extra effort that
that passion I think that's what
separates good from great if we go back
to that young ianka the uh the
confidence of Youth and uh if you could
talk about your mom she had a big
influence on you you told me she was an
adventurer yeah uh Olympic skier and a
businesswoman uh what did you learn
about life from your
mother so much um she passed away two
years ago now and and um she was a
remarkable remarkable woman she was a
Trailblazer in so many different ways um
as an athlete and growing up in
communist Czechoslovakia as um a fashion
Mogul as a real estate executive and and
Builder um just this allaround
trailblazing businesswoman's I also
learned from her you know aside from
from that
element how to really enjoy life you I
look back and some of my happiest
memories of her
are in the ocean you know just lying on
her back um looking up at the Sun and
just so so in the moment or dancing she
loved to dance so she um she really
taught me a lot about living life to its
fullest and um and she had so much
courage so much conviction so much
energy um and a complete comfort with
who she was what do you think about that
I mean Olympic Athlete the trade-off
between like ambition and just wanting
to do big things and pursuing that and
giving your all to that and being able
to relax and just throw your arms back
and enjoy the mo every moment of life
but like that tradeoff yeah what do you
think about that
tradeoff I think
because she was this unbelievable
formidable athlete and because of the
dis
she had as a child I think it made her
value those moments more as an adult I
think she was a great balance of the two
that we all hope to find and she was
able to find both incredibly serious and
formidable I remember as a little girl I
used to literally trapes behind her um
at the Plaza hotel which um she over
saww and actually kind of was her old
post office it was this unbelievable
Historic Hotel and in New York City and
I'd follow her around at construction
meetings and on job sites and um there
she is dancing
see that's funny that that's the picture
you pull up I'm sorry the two you just
look great in that picture that's great
she had such a a joy to her and she was
so unabashed and her perspective and her
opinions I mean you know she made my
father look reserved so
whatever she was feeling what she was
just very expressive um and and a lot of
fun to be around so she uh as you
mentioned uh grew up during the the
Prague spring in uh 1968 and that had a
big impact on human history I mean my my
family came from the Soviet Union and
then you know the 20th century the story
of the 20th century is a lot of Eastern
Europe uh the Soviet Union tried uh the
ideas of um of Communism and it turned
out that a lot of those ideas resulted
into a lot of suffering so why do you
think the Communist ideology failed I
think
fundamentally as people we desire
Freedom we want
agency you know and my mom was like a
lot of other people who grew up in in
similar situations where she didn't like
to talk about it that often so one of my
real regrets is that I didn't push her
harder you know so but I think back to
the conversations we did have and and I
try to imagine what it's like she was at
Charles University in in in Prague which
was really like a focal point of um of
the reforms that were ushered in during
the Prague spring and the liberalization
agenda that was happening the dance
halls were opening the student activists
and and she was attending University
there right at that same time so the the
contrast to this feeling
of freedom and progress and
liberalization in the spring and then
it's so quickly being crushed in the
fall of that same year when the Warsaw
pack countries and uh and the Soviet
Union rolled in to to put down and and
ultimately roll back all those
reforms so for her to have lived through
that you know she didn't come to North
America until she was uh 23 or 24 so
that was her life as um as as a young
girl she was on the junior National ski
team for Czechoslovakia my my
grandfather used to train her they used
to put the skis on her back and walk up
the mountain um in Czechoslovakia
because there were no there were no ski
lifs she actually made me do that when I
was a child um just to to let me know uh
what her experience had been if I
complained that it was cold out she's
like well you didn't have to walk up the
mountain you'd be you'd be plenty warm
if you had carried the skis up on your
back and uh up the last run I feel like
they made people tougher back then like
my my grandma you mentioned it's funny
they they go through some of the darkest
things that a human being can go through
and they don't talk about it and they
have a general positive outlook on life
like that's deeply rooted in the
knowledge of what life could be yeah
like how bad it could get my grandma
survived uh hore in Ukraine which is was
a mass
starvation brought on by the
collectivist policies of the Stalin
regime and then she survived the Nazi
occupation of Ukraine never talked about
it probably went through extremely dark
extremely difficult times and then just
always had a positive outl look on life
and also made me do very difficult
physical activity like just you IM just
to to Humble you like kids these days
are soft kind of energy which I'm deeply
deeply grateful for on all fronts
including just having hardship and uh
including just physical hardship flung
at me I think that's really important
you wonder how much of of who they were
was a reaction to their experience you
know which you have naturally had that
sort of forward-looking
grateful optimist IC orientation or was
it a reaction to to her childhood I
think about that you know I look at this
picture of my mom and she was
unabashedly herself you know she loved
flamboyance and Glamour and and in some
ways I think it probably was a direct
reaction to this very austere controlled
childhood you know this was one
expression of it I think her you know
how she dressed and how she presented I
I think her entrepreneurial spirit and
love of capitalism and all things
American was was another manifestation
of it and one that I grew up with I
remember the story she used to tell me
um about when she was uh 14 and she was
going to neighboring countries and you
know as an athlete you were given
additional freedoms um that that you
wouldn't otherwise be afforded in um in
in these societies under under communist
rules so she was able to travel where
most of her friends never would be able
to leave Czechoslovakia and she would
come back from all of these trips and
the first place where she'd do ski races
in Austria and elsewhere and the first
thing she had to do was check in at the
local police and she'd sit down and she
had enough wisdom at 14 to know that she
couldn't appear to be lying by not being
impressed by what she saw and the fact
that you could get an orange in the
window
but she couldn't be too excited by it
that she'd become a Flight Risk so give
enough details boy that you're
believable but not so many that you're
not trusted and imagine that as a
14-year-old you know that experience and
and having to navigate the world that
way and um she told me that eventually
all
those local police officers they came to
love her because one of the things she
do is smuggle B stuff back from these
countries and give it to them to give
their wives perfume and stockings and so
she figured out the system pretty
quickly um but but it's it's a very
different experience from what I was
navigating and the pressures and
challenges me as a 14-year-old was was
dealing with so so I have so much
respect and and admiration for her yeah
hardship clarifies what's important in
life uh you I've talked about man search
for meaning that book
uh having kind of an ultimate hardship
clarifies that uh finding joy in life is
not about the environment it's about
your outlook on that environment and
there's Beauty to be found in any
situation yeah and also in that
particular situation the when everything
is taken from you the thing you start to
think about is uh the people you love so
in the case of man search for meaning
Victor Franco thinking about his his
wife and how much he loves her and that
love was the flame that the the the
warmth that kept him excited the fun
thing to think about when everything
else is gone so we sometimes forget that
with the business of life you get all
this fun stuff we're talking about like
building and being a creative force in
the world at the end of the day what
matters is just like the other humans in
your life the people you love it's the
simple stuff you know Victor Frankle is
is somebody I mean his that book and um
just his philosophy in general is is um
is so inspiring to me but I think so
many people they say they want happiness
but they want conditional happiness you
know when this and this a thing happens
or under these circumstances then I'll
be happy and I think what he showed is
that we can sort of cultivate these
virtues within ourselves regardless of
the situation we find ourselves in
and in some ways I think the the meaning
of life is the search for meaning in
life it's the relationships we have and
we form it's the experience we have it's
how we deal with the suffering that life
inevitably presents to us and uh and
Victor Frankle does an amazing job
highlighting that under the
most horrific circumstances and I think
it's it's just super inspiring to me he
also shows that you can get so much from
just like small
Joys like getting a little more soup
today than you did yesterday I mean it's
like it's the little stuff if you allow
yourself to love the little stuff of
life it's all around you it's all there
so you don't need to like have these
ambitious goals and the comparison being
a thief of joy that kind of stuff just
like it's all around us the ability to
eat like when I when I was in the
jungle and I got severely dehydrated
because there's no water you run out of
water real quick and I mean the joy I
felt when I got the drink like I didn't
care about anything else speaking of
things that matter in life I I I would
start to fantasize about water and that
was bringing me
joy you can tap into this feeling at any
time exactly I was just tapping in just
to stay positive go your bathroom turn
on the sink and watch the water for for
sure I mean people really I it's good to
have stuff taken away for a time that's
why struggle is good to make you
appreciate to have a deep gratitud for
when you have it and water and food is a
big one but water is the biggest one I I
wouldn't recommend it necessarily to get
severely dehydrated to appreciate water
but maybe every time you take a sip of
water you can have that kind of
gratitude there's a a prayer in Judaism
you're supposed to say every morning
which is
basically thanking God for your body
working um it's it's something you know
so basic but it's when it doesn't that
that we're grateful so just reminding
ourselves every day the basic things of
of a functional body of of of our health
of access to to water which um so many
millions of people around the world do
not have
reliably is um very clarifying and super
important yeah health is a gift water is
a gift yeah is there a memory with your
mom that had a defining effect on your
uh
life I have these vignettes in my mind
you know seeing her in action in
different
capacities a lot of times
um in the context of things that I would
later go on to do myself so you I would
go every day almost every day after
school and I'd go to The Plaza Hotel and
I'd follow her around as she'd walk the
hallways and just observe her and she
was So impossibly Glamorous she was
doing everything and you know four and
half inch heels with this bant and so it
was almost it was almost like an it's
almost like an inaccessible
visual but I think for me when I saw her
experience the most Joy tended to be by
the Sea um almost always not not a pool
and I think I get this from her I pools
they're fine um I love the ocean I I
love salt water I love the way it makes
me feel and um and I think I got that
from her so we would we would just swim
together all all the time and and you
know it's it's a lot of what I love
about Miami actually being being so
close to the ocean I find it to be super
cathartic but a lot of my memories of my
mom seeing her really like just in her
Bliss um is is floating around in in in
a body of salt water is there also some
aspect to her being an example of
somebody that could be sort of beautiful
and feminine but at the same time uh
powerful a successful
businesswoman that showed that is
possible to do that yeah I think she
really was a Trailblazer it's not
uncommon in in real estate for there to
be multiple generations of uh of people
and so on on job sites I it was not
unusual for me to run into somebody
whose grandfather had worked with my
grandfather in Brooklyn or queens or
whose father had
um worked with my mother and and they'd
always tell me these stories about her
you know rolling in and they'd hear the
heels
first and and a lot of times the story
would be like oh gosh like you know
really it's two days after Christmas
like we thought we'd get a reprieve um
but she was uh she was very
exacting um you know so I have this
visual in my mind of her you know
walking on rebar you know on the balls
of her feet and these 4in shields I'm
assuming she actually carried Flats with
but but I don't
know that's not the visual I have but
she was um I loved the fact that she so
embodied femininity and um and Glamour
and um and was so comfortable
being tough and ambitious and determined
and um and this unbelievable
businesswoman and entrepreneur at at a
time when she was very much alone even
you know for for me and in the
development world and so many of the
different businesses that I've been in
there really aren't women outside of of
sales and of marketing you don't see as
many women in the development space in
the construction space even in the
architecture um and and design
space um maybe outside of interior
design so and she was you know decades
ahead of me so it was I love hearing
these stories I love I love hearing
somebody who's my here tell me about
their grandfather and their father and
their experience with with one of my
parents it's it's amazing and she did it
all in for in heels and she did it she
used to say there's nothing that I can't
do better in heels that's a good that
would be that would be your exact thing
and when I complain about wearing
something you know it was like the early
90s everything was also like
uncomfortable these fabrics and
materials and and I was I would like go
back and forth between being super girly
and a total tomboy um but uh but she'd
you know dress me up in in these things
and I'd be complaining about it and she'
say ianka pain for beauty which I happen
to totally disagree with because I think
there's nothing worse than being
uncomfortable so I haven't accepted or
internalized all of um this this wisdom
so to speak but um but but it was just
funny you know she had she had a very
specific point of view mhm this and full
good lines paint for
beauty it's it's funny because I mean
just even in fashion if something's
uncomfortable to me there's nothing that
looks worse than when you see somebody
like tottering around and like their
heels hurt them so they're kind of
walking oddly um and you know it doesn't
they're not embodying their confidence
in that regard so I'm like kind of the
opposite I start with well I want to be
comfortable um and that helps me be
confident and um and in command a
foundation for fashion for you is
comfort and on top of that you build and
it's Comfort like dowy you know there's
that level of comfort but um functional
Comfort but I think you have to for me I
want to feel confident and you don't
feel confident when you're like pulling
at a garment or um you know hobbling on
heels that don't fit you properly um and
she was never doing those things either
so I don't know how she was wearing
stuff like that that's like a 40 lb be
of dress and I know this because I have
it and I wore it recently and
I mean I got to work out walking to the
elevator like this is a heavy dress and
you know it was worth it it was great
she's making it look easy though but she
uh she makes it look very very easy so
do you uh miss her I'm so
much it's unbelievable how dislocating
the loss of a of a parent is and
um her mother lives with me still my
grandmother who helped raise us so
that's very
special and I can ask her some of the
questions that I would have sorry I
wanted to ask my own mom but it's
hard it was beautiful to see I've gotten
a chance to spend time with your family
to see so many generations together at
the table and there's so much history
there no she's 97 and um until uh she
was around 94 she lived completely on
her own no help no anything no support
and um and now she requires really sort
of 24-hour care and I I feel super
grateful that I'm able to give her that
because that's what she did for me it's
amazing for me to have my children be
able to grow up and and know her stories
know her
recipes um check dumplings and and
goulash um and
kit Lita and all the other things she
used to make me in my childhood but but
she really she was a major she was a
major force in my life my grandmother
she um you know my mom was working so
you know my grandmother was the person
who was always home every day when I
came back from school and um I remember
I used to shower and it would almost be
like comical I I feel like in my memory
and there is no washing machine I've
seen on the planet that can actually do
this but in my memory I'd go to shower
you know and I'd drop something on the
bed and I'd come back into the room
after my shower and it was like folded
pressed it was all my grandmother she
like running after me um taking care of
me um and uh so it's nice to be able to
do that for
her yeah I got from her reading my
grandmother she would she devoured books
like devoured books she loved the more
Sensational ones so yeah so like some
these like romance novels I would pick
them up the covers but she could tell
you she could look at like any Royal
lineage across Europe and tell you all
the Mistresses all all the drama all the
drama she loved it um but her face was
always buried in a book you know my
grandfather dto he was the athlete um he
was um he swam professionally for or you
know on the national team for
Czechoslovakia and he helped train my
mom as I was saying before and skiing so
he was a great athlete and she was at
home and she would read and cook and um
and so that's that's something I I
remember a lot from my childhood and she
would always say like I got I got
reading from
her I mean like speaking of drama I had
uh my English teacher in high school
recommended a book for me by DH Lawrence
it's supposed to be a classic she's like
this is a classic you should read it's
called Lady Shadow a lover and so I've
read a lot of Classics but that one is
straight up like a romance novel about a
wife who like is cheating with a
gardener and I remember reading this
like what like in retrospect I
understand why it's a classic because it
was so scandalous to talk about sex in a
book a 100 years ago whatever in
retrospect do you know why she
recommended it I have no I think maybe
just sending a signal hey you need to
get out more or something I don't
know maybe maybe she was seeking to
inspire you left yeah exactly um
anyway I I mean I love that kind of
stuff too but I love I love all the
classics and they get they get there's a
lot of drama human nature drama is part
of it so what about your dad growing up
what did you learn about life from your
father I think my father's sense of
humor is sometimes
underappreciated uh so he had an amazing
and has an amazing sense of humor he
loved music I I think my my mom loved
music as well but
you know my father always used to say
that in another life he would have been
a Broadway musical producer which is
hilarious to think about but he loves he
loves music I that is funny to think
about right he does now he DJs at marago
so people get a sense of you know he
loves Andrew Lloyd Weber and all of it
pavara Elton John I mean these were the
same songs on repeat my whole childhood
so I know the playlist probably Sinatra
and all that love Sinatra loves Elvis
you know a lot of a lot of the greats so
I think I got a a little bit of my love
from music from from him but my mom
shared that um as
well I think um one of the things you
know in in in looking back that I think
I inherited for my father as well is
this sort of
um interest or understanding of the
importance of asking question questions
and specifically questions of the right
people and I saw this a lot on on job
sites so I remember uh with the old post
office building there was this massive
glass topped Atrium so Heating and
Cooling the structure was like a
Herculean lift um we had the mechanical
engineers provide their thoughts on how
we could do it efficiently and um and so
that the temperature never varied and it
was enormously expensive um uh as an as
an undertaking and I remember one of his
first times on on the site because you
know he had really empowered me um with
this project and he trusted me to to
execute and to also you know rope him in
when I needed it but one of the first
time he visits we're walking the hallway
and we're talking about how expensive
this cooling system would be and heating
system would be and he starts stopping
and he's asking duct workers as as we
walk talk what they think of the system
that the mechanical engineers designed
first few fine you know not great
answers the third guy goes sir if you
want me to be honest with you it's
obscenely
overdesigned in the circumstance of a
1,000-year storm you will have the exact
P perfect temperature if there's a
massive Blizzard or if it's unbearably
hot but 99.9% of the time you'll never
need it and um
and so I think it's just an enormous
waste of
money and so we kept asking that guy
questions and we ended up overhauling
the design pretty well into the process
of the whole system saving a lot of
money creating a great system that's
super functional and um so I learned a
lot and that's just one example of
countless that one really sticks out of
my head because I'm like oh my gosh
we're redesigning the whole system you
know we were actively under construction
so it was um but I see him do that on a
lot of different issues he he would ask
people on the work level what their
thoughts were ideas Concepts
designs and um there was almost like a
Socratic sort
of first principles type of way he he
questioned people trying to get down to
sort of trying to reduce complex things
to something really fundamental and and
and simple so I I I try to do that
myself to the to the best I can and I
think it's something I very much learned
from him yeah I've seen great Engineers
great leaders do just that you see you
on do that a lot which is basically ask
questions uh to push simplification can
we do this simpler and like why the
basic question is like why are we doing
it this way can this be done simpler
yeah and not taking as an answer that
this is how we've always done it sort of
not not allowing yourself like it
doesn't matter that's how we always done
it what is the right way to do it and
what is and usually the simpler it is
the more correct the way yeah has to do
with cost has to do with Simplicity of
uh of production manufacturer but
usually simple is best and it's often
times not the architect t