Kind: captions
Language: en
hardship will show you who your real
friends are that's for sure you read the
quote once more don't eat with people
you wouldn't starve
with the following is a conversation
with Andrew huberman his fifth time on
the podcast he is the host of The
huberman Lab podcast and is an amazing
scientist teacher human being and
someone I'm grateful to be able to call
a close friend
also he has a book coming out next year
that you should pre-order now called
protocols an operating manual for the
human body this is Alex frean podcast to
support it please check out our sponsors
in the description and now dear friends
here's Andrew
huberman you think there's ever going to
be a day when you walk away from
podcasting definitely I mean I came up
within and then on the periphery of
skateboard culture and for the record I
was not a great skateboarder I always
have to say that cuz skateboarders are
Relentless if you call something you
didn't do or whatever I mean I could do
a few things and I loved the community
and I still have a lot of friends in
that Community Jim feibo at Deluxe you
can look him up he's kind of The Man
Behind the whole scene I know
Tony Hawk Danny Way all these guys I got
to see them come up and get big and stay
big in many cases start huge companies
like Dan Danny and Colin MCAS are
DC some people have a long life and
something some don't but one thing I
observed and learned a lot from in
skateboarding at the level of observing
the skateboarders and then the ones that
started companies and then what I also
observed in science and still observe is
you do it for a while you do it at the
highest possible level for you and then
at some point you pivot and you start
supporting the young talent coming in in
fact the greatest scientists people like
Richard Axel kathern dulock they many
other labs in Neuroscience Carl daer off
they're not just known for doing great
science they're known for mentoring some
of the best scientists that then go on
to start their own labs and I think in
podcasting I am very fortunate I got in
in a fairly early wave not the earliest
wave but thanks to your suggestion of
doing a podcast fairly early wave and
I'll continue to go as as long as it
feels right and I feel like I'm doing
good in the world and providing good but
I'm already starting to scout Talent my
company that I started with Rob Moore
scyon media there's a couple other guys
in there too Mike playback our
photographer Ian
Mackey Chris Ray Martin
fobes we are a company that produces
podcasts right now that's hubman Lab
podcast but we're launching a new
podcast perform with Dr Andy Galpin nice
and we want to do more of that kind of
thing finding a really great talent
highly qualified people credential
people and I've got a new um kind of
obsession with scouring the internet
looking for the young talent in science
in health and related fields and so will
there be a final episode of the
hlp yeah I mean bullet Buster cancer
aside you know someday I'll they'll be
the very last and thank you for your
interest in science and I'll clip out
yeah I love the idea of walking away and
be dramatic about it right when it feels
right you can leave and you can come
back whenever the fuck you want right uh
John Stewart did this well with the
Daily Show I think that was during the
2016 election when everybody wanted him
to stay on and he just walked away Dave
Chappelle for different reasons walked
away disappeared came back gave away so
much money didn't care and then came
back and was doing like stand up in the
park in the middle of
nowhere genius you have khabib who who
undefeated walks away at the very top of
of a sport is he coming back no at least
we don't know yeah right you don't know
I don't know if you know bears
everywhere are
worthed yeah I think you know it's um
it's always a call you know you the last
few years have been tremendous growth we
launched in January 2021 and even this
last year 2024 has been huge growth you
know in all sorts of ways it's been wild
and we have some some short form content
planned 30 minute shorter episodes that
really distill down the critical
elements we're also thinking about
moving to other venues besides
podcasting so there's always the thought
and the discussion but when it comes to
like when to hang up your cleats you
know it's like there just comes a
natural time where you can do more to
Mentor the Next Generation coming in
than focusing on self and so there will
come a time for that and I think it's
critical I mean again I saw this in
skateboarding like Danny and Colin and
Danny's brother Damon started DC with
Ken Block the driver who unfortunately
passed away a little while ago rally car
driver and they eventually sold it I
think to Quicksilver or something like
that but they're all phenomenal talents
in their respective areas but they
brought in the next you know the next
line of amazing Riders the plan B thing
you know Paul Rodriguez for
skateboarders they know who this is now
in science there are scientists like
Fineman for instance I don't know if
anyone can name one of his mentor
Offspring so there are scientists who
are
phenomenal like Beyond world class right
multigenerational world class who don't
make good mentors I'm not saying he
wasn't a good Mentor but that's not what
he's known for and then there are
scientists who are known for being
excellent scientists and and great
mentors and I think there's no higher um
celebration to be had at the end of
one's career if you can look back and
like hey I put some really important
knowledge into the world people made use
of that knowledge and guess what you
spawned all these
other scientific Offspring or sport
Offspring or podcast Offspring I mean in
some ways we look to Rogan and to some
of the other earlier podcasts is like
they you know they paved the way Ronda
Patrick first science podcast out there
so you know it eventually the baton
passes but fortunately right now
everybody's active and it and it feels
really good yeah well you're talking
about the healthy way to do it but
there's
also uh a different kind of way where
you have uh somebody like uh gisha
gregori Pearlman the mathematician who
refused to accept the fields medal so
he's one of the greatest living
mathematicians and he just walked away
from mathematics and rejected the fields
medal what did he do after he left
mathematics life private 100% I respect
that he's become essentially a recluse
is these photos of him looking very
broke like he could use the money he he
turned away the money he turned away
everything you know there's there
there's you just have to listen to the
inner voice you have to listen to
yourself and make the decisions that
don't make any sense for the rest of the
world and make sense to you I mean Bob
Dylan didn't show up to pick up his
Nobel Peace Prize that's Punk yeah yeah
he probably grew in notoriety for that
maybe just doesn't like going in Sweden
but seemed like it would be a fun trip I
I think they do it in a nice time of
year but hey that's his right he earned
that right I think the best artists
aren't doing it for the prize they
aren't doing it for the fame or the
money they're doing it because they love
the art yeah that's the the Rick Rubin
thing you got to verb it through
download your inner thing I don't think
we've talked about this that this
Obsession that I have about how Rick has
this way of being very very still in his
body but keeping his mind very active
um as a practice went spent some time
with him in Italy last June and uh we
would tread water in his pool in the
morning and listen to history of rock
and roll and 100 songs um amazing
podcast by the way it is yeah and um and
then he would spend a fair amount of
time during the day you know in this
kind of meditative state where his mind
is very active body very still and then
Carl diero when he came on my podcast
talked about how he forces himself to
sit still and thinking complete
sentences late at night after his kids
go to sleep and you know there's a state
of mind rapid eye movement sleep where
your body is completely paralyzed and
the mind is extremely active and people
credit rapid eye movement sleep with
some of the more elaborate emotion
filled dreams and the source of many
ideas and there are other examples
Einstein people described him as taking
walks around the Princeton campus then
pausing and would ask him what was going
on and the the idea that his mind was
continuing to churn forward at a high
rate
um so you know this is far from
controlled studies but we're talking
about some incredible minds and
creatives who have a practice of steing
the body while keeping the Mind
deliberately very active very similar to
Rapid ey movement sleep and then there
are a lot of people who also report you
know great ideas coming to them in the
shower while running so it can be the
opposite as well where the body is very
active and the and the mind is perhaps
more on kind of like a default mode
network not really focusing on anyone
specific thing you know interesting as
uh there's a bunch of physicists and
mathematicians I've talked to they talk
about sleep deprivation and going crazy
hours through the night obsessively
pursuing a thing and then the solution
to the problem comes when they finally
get rest right and and we know we just
did this six episode Special series on
sleep with Matt Walker we
know that when you deprive yourself of
sleep and then you get sleep you get a
rebound in rap and eye movement sleep
you get a higher percentage of rapid eye
movement sleep and Matt talks about this
in the podcast and he did an episode on
sleep and uh creativity sleep in memory
and Rapid ey movement sleep comes up
multiple times in that series um there's
also some very interesting stuff about
cannabis withdrawal and Rapid ey
movement sleep people are coming off
cannabis often will suffer from uh
insomnia but when they finally do start
sleeping they like dream like crazy um
cannabis is a very controversial topic
right now oh yeah I saw that what
happened there's a bunch of drama around
uh episode you did on cannabis yeah we
did a episode about cannabis talked
about the health benefits and the
potential risks right it's it's neither
here nor there um depends on the person
depends on the age depends on genetic
background a number of other things um
we
that episode well over a year ago and it
had no issues online so to speak and
then a clip of it was put to X where you
know the real action occurs as you know
your favorite spot um yeah the the the 4
oce gloves as opposed to the 16 oce
gloves um that is X versus Instagram or
YouTube there was um kind of an
immediate dog pile from a few people in
the cannabis research field the phds and
MDS yeah there were people on our side
there were people not on our side I mean
you know the the statement that got
things riled up the most was this notion
that uh for certain
individuals there's a high potential for
inducing psychosis with high THC
containing cannabis for certain
individuals not all um that sparked some
issues um there
was really a split you know you see this
in different fields it there was one
person in particular Who Came Out
Swinging with language that in my
opinion is not like of the sort that you
would use at a university uh venue um
especially among colleagues but that's
fine you know we're all grownup well for
me from my perspective it was uh
strangely rude and it had an air of like
elitism
that to to me uh was at the source of
the problem during covid that led to the
distrust of Science and the the the
popularization of disrespecting science
because so many scientists spoke with an
arrogance and a douche baggery that I
wish we would have a little bit less of
yeah it's tough because most academics
don't understand that people outside the
university system are um they don't
they're not familiar with like the inner
workings of science and um and the
culture and so you have to be very
careful how you present when you're a
university Professor um and when yeah so
you know he came out swinging at some
you know four-letter word type language
and he was obviously upset about so I
simply said what I would say anywhere
which was hey look come on the podcast
let's chat and um why don't you give
your tell me where I'm wrong and let's
discuss and and fortunately he agreed
and initially he said well no how can I
be sure you're not going to misrepresent
me and so I said we got on a d DM then
then an email then eventually phone call
and just said Hey listen like you're
welcome to record the whole conversation
we've never done a gotcha on my podcast
and let's just get to the heart of the
matter I think this this little
controversy is perfect um kindling for
for a really great discussion and um and
he had some other conditions that we
worked out and and I and I felt like
cool like he's really interested you get
a very different person on the phone
than you do on Twitter I will say he's
been very collegial and that
conversation is on the schedule I said
we'll fly you out we'll put you up he
said no he wants to fly himself he
really wants to make sure that there's
like kind of a space between um I think
some of the perception of science and
health podcast in the academic Community
is that it's all designed to sell
something no we run ads so it can be
free to everyone else yeah but I think
look in the end um he agreed and I'm
excited for the conversation it was
interesting because in the wake of that
exchange there's been a bunch of press
from traditional press about cannabis
has now surpassed alcohol in many in
many um cultures as uh within the United
States as when I say cultures I mean
demographics uh the United States as the
as the drug of choice um there have been
people highlighting the issues of
potential psychosis in high THC
containing and so it's kind of
interesting to see how traditional media
is sort of onboard certain elements that
you know put forward and I think there's
some controversy as to whether or not
the different strains the indicas and
sativas have are biologically different
Etc so we'll get down into the weeds pun
intended during that one and I'm excited
it's the first time that we've responded
to a direct criticism online about um
scientific content in a way that really
promoted like oh here the idea of
inviting a particular guest and so it's
great let's get a guest who um is expert
in cannabis I I believe I could be wrong
about this but he's a behavioral
neuroscientist is slightly different
training but look he seems highly
credential it' be fun and we you know we
welcome that kind of exchange I I'm not
being diplomatic I'm just saying like
it's cool like he's coming on you know
and he was friendly on the phone right
like he literally came out online and
was like basically like kind of like f
you like F this and F you but you get
someone on the phone it's like hey how's
it going and they're like oh yeah well
you know I there was an immediate
apology of like Hey listen I came out
normally I'm like not like that but
online you know you got a different yeah
okay listen so it's a little bit like
it's a little bit like Jiu-Jitsu right
people say all sorts of things I guess
but if they if you're like all right
well let's go then it's probably a
different story you know it's not like
jiu-ju cuz in Jiu-Jitsu people don't
talk shit CU they know what the
consequences are let me let me just say
on mic and off mic you have been very
respectful towards this person uh and
I'm look up to you and respect you and
admire the fact that you have been that
said to me that guy was being a dick and
when you graciously politely invited him
on the podcast he was still talking down
to you the whole time so I really admire
and look forward to listening to you
talk to him but I hope others don't do
that like you are a positive humble
voice exploring all the interesting
aspects of science like you want to
learn if there you've got anything wrong
you want to learn about it the way he
was being a dick I was just hurt a
little bit not because of him but CU
like there's some people I really really
admire brilliant scientists that are not
their best selves on Twitter on X
definitely I don't understand what
happens to their brain well they regress
they they regress and and they also are
protected you know you know when you
remove the I mean no scientific argument
should ever come to physical blows right
but when you remove the real world thing
of being right in front of somebody yeah
um people will throw all sorts of stones
at a distance you know over a wall and
they've got their their wife or their
husband or their boyfriend or their dog
or their cat to go cuddle with them
afterwards um but you get in a room and
it's like you know
confrontational people in real life are
are pretty rare but hopefully if they do
it they're like willing to back it up
with knowledge in this case right we're
not talking about physical altercation
yeah he he kept coming and he kept
putting on conditions how do I know you
you want this and I was like well you
record the conversation how do I know
you want that listen we'll pay for you
to come out how do you know and
eventually he just kind of relented and
um and it to his credit you know he's
agreed to come on I mean he still has to
show up but once he does you know we'll
treat him right like we would any other
guest yeah you treat people really well
and I I just hope that people are a
little bit nicer on the internet yeah
well you know X is an interesting one
because you it thickens your skin you
know to just to go on there I mean you
have to be ready to deal with sure but I
can still criticize people for for being
douchebags because like that's still not
good inspiring Behavior like especially
for
scientists that should be sort of
symbols of uh scientific thinking which
requires intellectual humility humility
is a big part of that and Twitter is a
good place to illustrate that yeah yeah
years ago I used to I was a student in
ta then um instructor and then directed
A Cold Spring Harbor course on visual
Neuroscience these are summer courses
that um explore different topics and at
night we would host um what we hoped
were battles in front of the students um
where you'd get two people on a you know
would it be neural Prosthetics or
molecular tools that would first you
know um restore Vision to the blind kind
of arguments you kind of like it's kind
of a silly argument because it's going
to be a combination of both right but
you'd get these great arguments but the
arguments were always couched in data
and occasionally you'd get somebody
would go like or would curse or
something but it was the rare very um
very well-placed you know um insult it
wasn't you know Coming Out Swinging um I
think ultimately you know Twitter's a
record of people's behavior the the
internet is a record of people's
behavior and here I'm not talking about
news reports about people's behavior I'm
talking about how people show up online
is really important you've always um
carried yourself with a ton of composure
and respect and you know you just you
would hope that people would grow from
that example well I'll tell you that the
the podcasters that I'm scouting it's
their energy but it's also how they
treat other people how they respond to
comments and um you know we're blessed
to have pretty significant reach when we
put out a podcast like of someone else's
podcast it goes far and wide so H like a
skateboard team like a laboratory where
you're selecting people to be in your
lab you're you want to pick people that
you would enjoy working with and that
are
collegial etiquette and etiquette is is
lacking nowadays but you're in the suit
and tie you're bringing it back bringing
it back uh you said that your
conversation with James Hollis a young
psychoanalyst had a big impact on you
what do you mean James Hollis is a
84-year-old yion psychoanalyst who's
written 17 books including under Saturn
Shadow which is on the healing and
Trauma of men the eating Eden Project
excuse me which is about relationships
and creating a life I discovered James
hollison an online lecture that was
recorded I think in San Diego it's on
YouTube the audio is terrible called
creating a life and this was somewhere
in the 2011 to 2015 span I can't
remember and I was on my way to Europe
and I called my girlfriend at the time I
like I just found the most incredible
lecture I've ever heard and I he talks
about the shadow he talks
about your developmental upbringing and
how you either align with or go 180
degrees off your parents Tendencies and
values in certain areas he talked about
the specific questions to ask of oneself
at different stages of Life to Live a
full life so it's always been a dream of
mine to meet him and to record a podcast
and he wasn't able to travel so our team
went out to DC and sat down with him we
rarely do that nowadays people come to
our studio and he came in he had some
surgeries recently and he kind of came
in with some assistance from a you know
a cane and then sat down and just just
blew my mind it from start to finish he
didn't miss a syllable and every
sentence that he spoke was like a
quotable sentence of with real potency
and actionable items I think one of the
things that was most striking to me was
how he said when we take ourselves out
of stimulus and
response and we just force ourselves to
spend some time in the quiet of our
thoughts while walking or while seated
or while lying down doesn't have to be
meditation but it could be that we
access our unconscious mind in ways that
reveals to us who we really are and what
we really want and that if we do that
practice repeatedly 10 minutes a day
here 15 minutes a day there that we
start to really touch into our unique
gifts and the things that make us each
us and the directions we need to take
but that so often we just stay in
stimulus response we just do do do do do
which is great we have to be productive
um but we miss those um important
messages and interestingly he also put
forward this idea of what is it it's
like get up shut up suit up yeah
something like that like get out of bed
suit up and shut up and get to work he
also has that in him kind of a goggin
type mindset so be able to turn off all
this self-reflection and self analysis
and just get shit done get shit done but
then also take dedicated time and stop
and just let stuff geyser to the surface
from the unconscious mind and he quotes
Shakespeare and he quotes Yung and he
quotes everybody through history with
with Incredible accuracy and um and in
exactly the way uh needed to drive home
a point but that that conversation to me
was one that I really felt like okay you
know if I don't wake up tomorrow for
whatever reason that one's in the can
and I feel really great about it it's it
to me it's the most important um guest
recording we've ever done
um in particular because he has wisdom
and while I hope he lives to be
204 chances are he's got another what 20
30 years with us hopefully more but I
really really wanted to capture that
information and get it out there so I'm
very very proud of that one um uh and
he's the kind of guy that anyone listens
to him young old male female whatever
and you're going to get something of
value what do you think about this
idea of the
shadow that uh the good and the bad that
we repress that hides from Plain Sight
when we analyze ourselves that's there
you think there's like a ocean that we
we don't have direct access to yes yeah
young said it we have all things inside
of us and we do and some people are more
touch with those than others and some
people it's repressed I mean does that
mean that we could all be you know
horrible people or marvelous people um
benevolent people perhaps I think that
um thankfully more often than not people
lean away from the like violent and um
harmful parts of their their Shadow but
I think spending time thinking about you
know
one's shadow shadow knows is super
important how how else are we going to
grow otherwise you know we have these
unconscious blind spots of of denial or
um repression or whatever you know the
psychiatrist tell us but yeah it clearly
exists within all of us I mean we have
neural circuits for rage we all do we
have neural circuits for altruism um and
no one's born without these things and
some people they're atrophied and some
people they're hypertrophied but I
looking Inward and and recognizing
what's there is key or positive things
like creativity maybe that's what Rick
Rubin is accessing when he goes silent
silent body active mind mhm that's
interesting what is it for you what
place do you go to that generates ideas
that helps you generate ideas I have a
lot of new practices around this I mean
I'm all always exploring for protocols I
have to it's like in my nature um when
when I went and spent time with Rick I I
tried to adopt his practice of staying
very still and just letting stuff you
know come to the surface or the daoan
way of formuling complete sentences in
while being still in the body what I
have found works better is what my good
friend Tim Armstrong does to write music
he writes music every day he's a music
producer he's obviously singer guitar
player for rancid um and he's helped
dozens and dozens and dozens of female
pop artists and punk rock artists
write great songs and many of the famous
songs that you've heard from other
artists Tim helped them right Tim wakes
up sometimes in the middle of the night
and what he does is he'll start drawing
or painting so what he's done and Joanie
Mitchell talks about this too you find
some creative
Outlet that's like 15 degrees off center
from your main creative outlet and you
do that thing so for me that's drawing I
like doing anatomical drawings
neuroscience-based drawing draw neurons
that kind of thing and if I do that for
a little while in my mind starts
churning on the the nervous system and
biology and then I come up
with areas I'd like to explore for the
podcast ways I'd like to address certain
topics right now I'm very interested in
autonomic control a beautiful paper came
out that shows that anyone can learn to
control their pupil sizes and without
changing luminance through a bio
feedback mechanism uh and that gives
them Auto control over their so-called
automatic autonomic nervous system and
I've been looking at what the circuitry
is and it's it's beautiful so I'll draw
the circuitry that we know underlies
autonomic function and as I'm doing that
I'm thinking oh like what about
autonomic control and those people that
supposedly can control their pupil size
then you go in and there's a paper
published in nature press one of the
nature journals and there's a recent
paper on this like oh cool and then we
talk about this and then how could this
be put into kind of a post or how could
this you know so doing things that are
about 15° off center from your main
thing is a great way to access I believe
the circuits for in Tim's case painting
goes to
songwriting I think for Joanie Mitchell
that was also the case right I think it
was drawing and painting to singing and
songwriting for Rick I don't know what
it is maybe it's listening to podcast I
don't know that that's his business do
you have anything that you like to focus
on that allows you then an easier
transition into your main creative work
no I'd really like to focus on emptiness
and silence so I pick the dragon I have
to slay so whatever the problem I have
to work on and I just sit
there and stare at it I love how fucking
linear you are and it just and if
there's no if you're tired I'll just sit
I believe in the in the power of just
waiting and usually I'll stop being
tired or there energy rises from
somewhere or an idea Pops from somewhere
but there needs to be a silence and an
emptiness it's an empty room just me and
the dragon and we wait that's it like if
it's a usually with programming you're
thinking about a particular design like
how do I design this
thing to solve this problem any
cognitive enhancers I've got a quite the
gallery in front of me oh that's right
yeah should we walk through this yeah
this is not this is not a a sales thing
this just um I tend to do this bounce
back and forth your refrigerator just
happen to have a lot of different
choices so water this is all my
refrigerator I know right there's no
food in there there's water there's
element which they now have canned and
yes they're a podcast sponsor for both
of us but that's not why I cracked one
of these open I like them provide
they're they're cold and that's by the
way my least Flav favorite flavors I was
saying that's that's the reason it's
still left in the fridge the Cherry one
is really good the black cherry there's
a orange one yeah I pushed the um sled
this morning and pulled the sled for my
workout at the gym and and it was hot
today here in Austin so um some salt is
good and then matin yate zero sugar full
confession I help develop this I'm a
partial owner but I love yate half
Argentine been drinking mate since I was
a little kid there's actually a photo
somewhere on the internet when I'm like
three sting on my grandfather's lap
sipping mate out the gourd and then this
you might find interesting this is just
a little bit of
coffee with a scoop of Brian Johnson
gave me cocoa just like pure unsweetened
Coco so I put that in chocolate I like
it just for the taste well actually
nukes my appetite and since I'm we're
not going out to dinner tonight until
later I figure that's good yeah Brian's
an interesting one right he's really
pushing this this thing the optimization
of everything yeah although he just hurt
his ankle he posted a photo that he hurt
his ankle so now he's injecting bpc body
protection compound 157 which many many
people are taking by the way I did an
episode on peptides I should just say
you know bpc 157 one of the known
effects in animal models is angiogenesis
like development of new vasculature
which can be great in some context but
also if you have a tumor you don't
really want to vascularize that tumor
anymore so I worry about people taking
bpc157
continually but um and there's very
little human data I think there's like
one study and it's a lousy one so a lot
of animal data some of the peptides are
interesting however there's one that
I've experimented with a little bit
called pineline which um I find even if
I've just taken it twice a week before
sleep then it times you it seems to do
something to the circadian timekeeping
mechanism because then on other days
when I don't take it I get unbelievably
tired at that time that normally I would
do the injection these are things that
I'll experiment with for a couple weeks
and then typically stop maybe try
something else but I stay out of um
things that really stimulate any of like
major hormone Pathways um when it comes
to peptides that's actually a really
good question of how do you experiment
like how long do you try a thing to
figure out if it works for you well I'm
very sensitive to these things so I and
I been doing a lot of things for a long
time so if I add something in it's
always one thing at a time and I notice
right away if it does not make me feel
good like there's a lot of excitement
about some of the so-called growth
hormone
secretagogues hyperoral and tesamorelin
Calin um I've experimented a little bit
with those in the past and they've nuked
my rap and eye movement sleep but given
me a lot of Deep Sleep which doesn't
feel good to me but other people like
them I also just generally try and avoid
taking peptide that tap into these
hormone Pathways because you can run
into all sorts of issues but some people
take them safely but usually after about
four five days I know if I like
something or I don't and then I move on
but I am not super adventurous with
these things I know people that will
take cocktails of peptides with multiple
things they'll try anything that's not
me and I do blood work um but also I'm
you know I'm mainly reading papers and
podcasting and um I'm teaching a course
next spring Stanford I'm gonna do a big
undergraduate course um so I'm trying to
develop that course and things like that
so um I don't need to lift more weight
or run further than I already do which
is not that much weight or or far as it
is right you're not going to the
Olympics you're not trying to truly
maximize some aspect of your performance
no and I'm not and I'm not trying to get
down below whatever you know 7% body fat
or something I I don't have those kinds
of goals so hydration electrolytes
caffeine in the form of mate and then
this coffee thing and then and then
here's one that I think I brought out
for discussion this is a piece of
Nicorette they're not a sponsor um
nicotine is an interesting compound it
will raise blood pressure and it
um is probably not safe for everybody
but you know the nicotine is gaining in
popularity like crazy mainly these um
pouches that people put in the lip not
we're not talking about um smoking
vaping tipping or snuffing you know my
interest in nicotine started this was in
2010 10 I was visiting Columbia Medical
School and I was in the office of the
Great neurobiologist Richard Axel won
the Nobel Prize co-recipient with Linda
Buck for the um discovery of the
molecular basis of old faction brilliant
guy he's probably in his late 70s now
probably yeah and he kept popping
Nicorette in his mouth and I was like
what's this about and he said oh well
this was just anecdote right but he said
but he said this he said oh well you
know it protects against Parkinson's and
Alzheimer's I said it does he goes yeah
yeah yeah I if he was kidding or not
he's known for making jokes and then he
said that when he used to smoke it
really helped his focus in creativity
but then he quit smoking because he want
lung cancer and he found that he
couldn't focus as well so he would
choose Nicorette so occasionally like
right now we each I do a half a piece
but I'm not Russian so I'm a little you
know you did you just pop the whole
thing in your mouth MH so I'll do a
couple milligrams every now and again
and it definitely sharpens the mind on
an empty stomach in particular but you
fast all day you're still doing one meal
a day meal a day yeah yeah I did uh
nicotine polish with Rogan at dinner and
I got high yeah that's a lot that's like
usually six or eight milligrams I know
people that get a canister of Zen take
One A Day pretty soon they're taking a
canister a day so you have to be very
careful I will only allow myself two
pieces of Nicorette total per week and
you will notice that you know in the day
after you use it you know sometimes your
your throat will feel a little bit like
like a little spasm you like you might
want to cough once or twice and so you
know if you're a singer or you're
podcaster or something you have to do
long podcast you want to just be mindful
of it but yeah you're supposed to kind
like keep it in your cheek and here we
go but it did make me intensely focus in
a way that was a little bit scary cuz
the nucleus balis is in the you know
basil 4brain nucleus has col energic
neurons that radiate out axons little
wires that release acetylcholine into
the neocortex and elsewhere and when you
focus on one particular topic matter or
one particular area of your visual field
or listening to something and focusing
visually we know that there's a an
elaboration of the amount of
acetylcholine released there and it
binds to nicotinic acetylcholine
receptor sites there so it's a kind of
intentional modulation um by
acetycholine so you're getting an with
nicotine you're getting a exogenous or
artificial heightening of that circuitry
and uh the time I had T Carlson on the
podcast he told me that apparently it uh
helps him as he said publicly uh keep
his uh love life vibrant really it
causes visas of constrictions like he
literally said it makes his dick very
hard he said that publicly also okay
well as little as I want to think about
Tucker Carlson's um sex life um no
disrespect uh
the major effect of nicotine on the
vascul my understanding is that it
causes Vaso constriction not Vaso
dilation drugs like Calis tadalfil
viagara ETA vasod dilators they allow
more blood flow um nicotine does the
opposite less blood flow to the
periphery but provided dosages are kept
low and I I don't recommend people use
it frequently or at all and I don't
recommend young people use it you know
um you know 25 and younger brain's very
plastic at that time
and um and certainly smoking dipping
vaping and snuffing aren't good because
you're going to run into you run into
trouble uh for other reasons but in any
case um well and even there vaping is a
controversial
topic probably safer than smoking but
has its own issues and I said something
like that and boy did I catch a lot of
heat for that you can't say anything as
a health science educator not piss
somebody off you know it just depends on
where the the center of mass is and how
far outside that you are for me the
caffeine is the main
thing and actually it's it's a really
big part of my life and one of the
things you recommend that people wait a
bit in the morning to consume caffeine
if they experience a crash in the
afternoon this is one of the
misconceptions I um I regret maybe even
discussing it for people that crash in
the
afternoon often times if they delay
their caffeine by 60 and 90 minutes in
the morning they will offset some of
that but if you eat a lunch that's too
big or you didn't sleep well the night
before you're not going to avoid that
afternoon crash but I'll wake up
sometimes and go straight to hydration
and caffeine especially if I'm going to
work out here's a weird one if I
exercise
before 8:30 a.m. especially if I start
exercising when I'm a little bit tired I
get energy that lasts all day if I wait
until my peak of energy which is midm
morning 10:00 a.m. 11:00 a.m. and I
start exercising then I'm basically
exhausted all afternoon and I don't
understand why I mean it depends on the
intensity of the workout but so I like
to be done
showered and heading into work by 9:00
a.m. but I don't always meet that Mark
so you're saying it doesn't affect your
energy if you start out with exercising
I think you can get energy and wake
yourself up with exercise if you start
early and it and then that fuels you all
day long I think that if you wait until
you're feeling at your best to
Train sometimes that's mental because
then in the afternoon when you're doing
like the work we get paid for like
research podcasting Etc then often times
you know your your brain isn't firing as
well that's interesting I haven't really
rigorously tried that wake up and just
start running or this is the Joo thing
and then there's this phenomenon called
entrainment where if you force yourself
to exercise or eat or socialize or view
bright light at a certain time of day
for three to seven days in a row pretty
soon there's an anticipatory circuit
that gets generated this is why anyone
in theory can become a morning person to
some degree or another and this is also
a beautiful example of why you wake up
before your alarm clock goes off you
know people wake up and all of a sudden
it goes off it wasn't because it clicked
it's because you have this in incredible
timekeeping mechanism that exists in
sleep and there's some papers that have
been published in the last couple of
years Nature Neuroscience and elsewhere
showing that people can answer math
problems in their sleep simple math
problem but math problems
nonetheless this does not mean that if
you ask your partner a question and
sleep that they're going to answer
accurately like they might screw up the
whole um uh cumulative probability of
20% across multiple months all right
listen what happened what happened
here's the deal a few years back I did a
four and a half hour after editing four
and a half hour episode on male and
female
fertility um the entire recording took
11 hours
and at one point during the and and by
the way I'm very proud of that episode
there's many couples have written to me
and said they now have children as a
consequence of that episode and my first
question is what were you doing during
the episode but in all seriousness um we
should say that it's 4 and a half hours
yeah and for people and they should
listen to the episode you're it's
extremely technical episode like you're
non-stop dropping facts and and
referencing huge number of papers it's
must be exhausted I don't understand how
you can possi talk about sperm Health
spermatogenesis it talks about the
ovulatory cycle it talks about things
people can do that are that are
considered absolutely supported by
science it talks about some of the
things kind of out on the edge a little
bit that are a little bit more
experimental it talks about IVF it talks
about ixie it talks about um all of that
it talks about frequency of pregnancy as
a function of age
Etc um but there's this one portion
there in the podcast where I'm talking
about the uh probability of a successful
pregnancy as a function of age and so
there was a clip that was cut in which I
was describing cumulative probability
and by the way we published cumulative
probability histograms in many of my
Laboratories papers including one that
was a nature article in 2018 so we run
these all the time and yes I know the
difference between independent and
cumulative probability just like I do um
the way the clip was cut and what I
stated unfortunately combined to a like
a pretty great Gaff where I say you just
adding I said you're just adding
percentages 20 20 20 to 120% and then I
made us kind of unfortunately my humor
isn't always so good and I made a joke I
said um 120% but that's a different
thing alog together what I should have
said was um that's impossible you know
and here here's how it actually works
but then the the it continues where I
then describe the cumulative probability
histogram for um successful pregnancy
but somewhere in the early portion I I
misstated something right I made a math
error um which implied I didn't
understand the difference between
independent and cumulative probability
which I do and it got picked up and and
run and people had a really good laugh
with that one at my expense and so what
I did in response to it was rather than
just say everything I just said now I
said
I just came out online and said hey
folks in an episode dated this on
fertility I made a math error here is
the formula for cumulative probability
successful pregnancy at that age here's
the graph here's the you know and I I
offered it as a teaching moment in two
ways one for people to understand
cumulative probability it was sort of
interesting too a number of people that
had come out critiquing the Gaff also um
like bology and folks came out pointing
out that they didn't understand
cumulative probability there was a lot
of posturing you know the dog pile
oftentimes people are quick to dog pile
they didn't understand but a lot of
people did understand some smart people
out there obviously I called my dad and
he was just laughing he goes oh this is
good this is like the old school way of
of hammering academics um but the point
being there's a teaching moment um gave
me an opportunity to say hey I made a
mistake I also made a mistake in another
podcast where I um did a micron to
millimeter conversion and or centimeter
conversion but and we always always
correct these in the show note captions
we correct them in the audio now um
unfortunately on YouTube it's harder to
correct you can't go and edit and
segments so we put in the captions but
that was the one teaching moment if you
make a mistake it's substantive and
relate to data you you you apologize and
correct the mistake use a teaching
moment the other one was to say Hey you
know in all the thousands of hours of
content we've put out I'm sure I've made
some small errors I think I once said
serotonin when I me dopamine and you
know you're you're going you're you're
riffing and it's it's a reminder to be
careful um to edit double check but the
internet usually uh edits for us and
then we go make corrections but it
didn't feel good at first but ultimately
you know I can laugh at myself about it
um long ago at Berkeley when I was teing
my first class it was a biopsychology
class be 1998 or 1999 um I was drawing
the pituitary gland which is you know it
has an anterior and a posterior lobe
actually is a medial lobe too I have
five 600 students in that lecture hall
and I drew a chalkboard and I drew the
two loaves of the pituitary and I said
my back was to the audience I said you
know and so they just sort of hang there
and everyone just erupted in laughter
cuz it looked like a scrotum with two
testicles and I remember thinking like
oh my God like I don't think I can turn
around like and face this you know and
like oh got to turn around sooner or
later so I turned around and we just all
had a big laugh together it was
embarrassing I'll tell you one thing
though they never forgot about the two
loes of the pituitary yeah and you
haven't forgotten about that either
right there's a high high salience for
these kinds of things and it also was
kind of fun to
see how excited people get to see people
trip it's like an elite Sprinter trips
and does something stupid like you know
runs the opposite direction out the
blocks or something like that and and or
a you know I recall that one World Cup
match years ago a guy scored against his
own team I think they killed the guy do
you remember that mhm some South
American or Central American team yeah
and they killed the guy but yeah let's
let's look it up I just said um World
Cup yeah he was gunned down Andre
Escobar yeah scored against his own team
in 1994 World Cup in the United States
just 27 years old playing for the
Columbia national team yeah last name
Escobar it's a good name you think it
would protect you
listen you know so there are some gaffs
that get people uh killed right so you
know how forgiving are we for online
mistakes you know it's it's the nature
of the mistakes people were quite
gracious about the the Gaff and some
weren't and you know it's interesting
that
um
we as you know Public Health Science
Educators um you know we'll do long
podcast sometimes and and you need to be
really careful what's great is AI MH
allows you to check these things now
more readily so that's cool
and there are ways that that it's now
going to be more self-correcting I mean
you know I think there's there's a lot
of errors out there on the internet and
people are finding them and it's cool
like things are getting cleaned up yeah
but mistakes nevertheless will happen
are you uh do you feel the pressure of
not making mistakes sure I mean you know
I try and get things right to the best
of you know to the best of my ability um
I check with experts it's kind of
interesting when people really don't
like something that was said in a
podcast a lot of times I chuckle because
I'm you know at Stanford we have some
amazing scientists but there I talk to
them else people
elsewhere um and it's always interesting
to
me
how you I'll get Divergent
information and then I'll find the
overlap in the VIN diagram and I have
this like question do I just stay with
the overlap in the VIN diagram like I
did an episode on oral health I didn't
know this until I researched that
episode but oral health is critically
related to heart health and brain health
that there's a bacteria that causes
cavities streptococus you know that can
make its way into other parts of the
body through the mouth that um um can
cause serious issues there's the idea
that some forms of dementia some forms
of heart disease are start in the mouth
basically I talked to no fewer than four
dentists Dental experts and there was a
lot of convergence I also learned that
teeth can demineralize that's the
formation of cavities they can also
remineralize as long as a cavity isn't
too deep it can actually fill itself
back in especially if you provide the
right substrates for it that saliva is
this incredible fluid that has all this
capacity to remineralize teeth provided
the meal you is right things like
alcohol-based mouthwashes killing off
some of the critical things you need
this fascinating and I put out that
episode thinking oh I'm not a dentist
I'm not an oral health episode but I
talk to a pediatric dentist there's a
terrific one Dr downcore Stacy St ACI on
Instagram does great content talk to
some others um and like and then I just
waited for the attack I was like here we
go and it didn't come and dentists were
thanking me like you know MH that's a
rare thing more often than not if I do
an episode about say psilocybin or MDMA
you get some people liking it or ADHD
and the drugs for ADHD we did a whole
episode on the riddin viance ater all
stuff you get people saying thank you
you know I prescribe this to my kid and
it really helps and and this and but
they're private about the fact that they
do it because they C so much attack from
other people so I like to find the
center of mass report that try to make
it as clear as possible and then I know
that there's some stuff where I'm going
to catch shit what's frustrating for me
is when like I see claims that I'm like
against fluidization of water which I'm
not right like we talked about the
benefits of fluoride it builds hyper
strong bonds within the teeth I went and
looked at some of the the literally the
crystal struct not excuse me not the
crystal stru structure but the the
essentially the like Micron and
submicron structure of teeth it's like
incredible and a where fluoride can get
in there and form these super strong
bonds and you can also form them with
things like hydroxy appetite and why is
there fluoride in water well it's the
best okay you get you say some things
that are interesting but then somehow it
gets turned into like you're against
fluidization which I'm not or I've been
accused of being against sunscreen I
wear mineral-based sunscreen on my face
I don't want to get skin cancer or I use
a physical barrier there is a cohort of
people out there that think that all
sunscreens are bad I'm not one of them
I'm not What's called a sunscreen
truther but then you get attacked for
like if you so we're talking about there
are certain sunscreens that are
problematic so what and Ronda Patrick's
now starting to get vocal about this and
so there's certain topics that's
interesting for
which you have to listen carefully to
what somebody is saying but there's a
lumper or lumping as opposed to
splitting of of of what health Educators
say and so it just seems like like with
politics there's this like urgency to
just put people into a camp of expert
versus like Renegade or something and
it's not like that it's just not like
that so I the short answer is I really
strive really strive to get things right
but I know that I'm going to piss
certain people off and you've taught
me and Joe's taught me and other
podcasters have taught me that like if
you worry too much about
it um then you aren't going to get the
newest information out there like
peptides there's very little human data
unless talking about VII or the melan
you know stuff in the alpha mocy
stimulating hormone stuff which are
prescribed for female libido to enhance
female liido or um celin which is for
certain growth hormone deficiencies with
with rare exception there's very little
human data but people are still super
interested and a lot of people are
taking and doing these things so you
want to get the information out do you
try to not just look at the science but
research what the communities are
talking what the various communities are
talking about like maybe research what
the conspiracy theorists are talking
about just so you know all the armies
that are going to be attacking your
Castle yes so like for instance there's
a community of people online that
believe that like if you consume seed
oils or something that like you're
setting up your skin for sunburn and if
you don't you know like there's all
these like theories but I like to so I
like to know what the theories are I
like to know what the extremes are but I
also like to know what the standard
conversation is but there's generally
more agreement than disagreement I think
where
um you know I've been kind of bullish
actually is you know where like
supplements like people go oh
supplements well there's food
supplements like a protein powder which
is different than a vitamin and then
they are compounds there are compounds
that have real benefit but people get
very nervous about the fact that they're
not regulated but some of them are are
vetted with for potency and for um
safety with with more rigor than others
you know and it's interesting to see
how people who take care of themselves
and put a lot of work into that are
often attacked that's been interesting
also one of the most controversial
topics nowadays is OIC monjaro I'm very
middle of the road on this I don't
understand why the quote unquote Health
Wellness Community is so against these
things I also don't understand why they
have to be looked at as the only route
for some people they've really helped
them lose weight and yes there can be
some muscle loss and other lean lean
body loss but can be offset with
resistance training they've helped a lot
of people and other people are like no
this stuff is terrible I think the most
interesting thing about OIC monjaro is
that they are glp1 they're in the gp1
pathway gagon like peptide 1 and it was
discovered in hila monsters which is a
uh lizard basically and someone the now
the now the entomologist will dive on me
it's a big big lizard looking thing that
doesn't eat very often and they figured
out that there's this peptide that
allows it to curb its own
appetite at the level of the brain and
the gut and it has a lot of homology to
sequence homology to what we now call
gp1 so I love anytime there's animal
biology links to cool human biology
links to a drug that's powerful that can
help people with obesity and type two
diabetes and there's evidence that can
even curb some addictions um those are
newer data but I don't see as either or
in fact I've been a little bit
disappointed at the way that the um
whatever you want to call it health
Wellness biohacking Community has like
slammed on OIC Monaro it's like they're
like just get out and run and do listen
there are people who are carrying
substantial amounts of weight that
running could injure them they get on
these drugs and they can improve and
then hopefully they're also doing
resistance training and eating better
and then you know you're bringing all
the elements together well why do you
think the criticism is happening is it
that Olympic became super popular so
people are misusing it or that kind of
thing no I think what it is is that
people think if it's a pharmaceutical
it's bad yeah and then or if it's a
supplement it's bad depending on which
camp they're in and and wouldn't it be
wonderful to kind of like fill in the
gap between this divide that you know um
what I would like to see in politics and
in health is um neither right nor left
but what we can just call A League of
reasonable people that looks at things
on an issue by isue basis and fills in
the center because I think most people
are in the are I don't want to say
Center in a political way but I think
most people are reasonable they want to
be reasonable but that's not what sells
clicks that's not what that's not what
drives interest um but I'm a very like
like I look at issue by issue person by
person I don't like ingroup outgroup
stuff I never have I've got friends from
all walks of life I said this on other
podcast and it always sounds like like a
political statement but like the the the
push towards like you know polarization
is it's so frustrating if there's one
thing that's discouraging to me as I get
older each year I'm like wow are we ever
going to get out of this
like
polarization speaking of which how are
you going to vote for the presidential
election I'm I'm still trying to figure
out how to interview the people involved
and do it well what do you think the
role of podcast is going to be in this
year's election I would love uh long
form conversations to happen with um
with the candidates I think it's going
to be huge I would love Trump to go on
Rogan I embarrassed to say this but I
would love to honestly would love to see
Joe Biden go on Joe Rogan also I would
imagine that both would go on but
separately separately I think it's I
think a debate Joe does debates but I
think Joe at his best this one-on-one
conversation really
intimate um I I just wish that Joe Biden
would actually do long form
conversations I thought he had done a
wasn't he I think he was on uh J shett
podcast he did J shett he did he did a
few but when I mean long form I mean uh
really long form like 2 three hours and
more relaxed it was much more
orchestrated because what happens when
it's the interview is a little bit too
short it becomes into this generic uh
political type of uh NBC CNN type of
interview you get a set of questions and
you don't get to really feel the human
expose the human to the light and it the
full we talked about the Shadow The Good
the Bad and the Ugly so I think there's
something magical about two three 4
hours mhm but it doesn't have to be that
long but it has to have that feeling to
it where there's not people standing
around and everybody's nervous and
you're going to be uh strictly sticking
to the question answer type of feel but
just shooting shit which Rogan is the
best by far in the world at that yeah
he's I I don't think people really
appreciate how skilled he is at what he
does
and the number I mean the three or four
podcasts per week press plus the UFC
announcing plus comedy tours in stadiums
plus um you know doing comedy shows in
the the middle of the week plus you know
a husband and a father and a friend and
Jiu-Jitsu the guys got like super human
levels of output I I agree that long
form conversation is a whole other
business and I think that people want
and deserve to know the people that are
uh running for office said a in a
different way and to really get to know
them um well listen you know I I guess
you I mean is it clear that he's going
to do jail time or maybe he gets away
with fine I don't think because I was
going to say I mean does that mean
you're going to be podcasting from in
prison yeah we're going to in fact I'm
going to figure out how to commit a
crime so I can get in prison with please
don't please don't well that's I'm sure
they have visitors right that just
doesn't feel an authentic way to get the
interview but yeah I understand
you wouldn't be able to wear that suit
you'd be wearing a different suit that's
true yeah um it's G to be interesting
and and you do I'm not just saying this
because you're my friend but you would
do a marvelous job I think you should
sit down with all of them separately to
keep it civil and um and see what what
happens here's one thing that I found
really interesting in this whole
political landscape when I'm in Los
Angeles I often get invited to these
like they're not dinners but Gatherings
where you know local um you know bunch
of podcasters will come together but a
lot of people from the entertainment
industry big agencies big Tech like big
big Tech many of the people have been on
this podcast and they'll host a
discussion or a debate and what you find
if you look around the room and you talk
to people is that about half the people
in the room are very left leaning and
very outspoken about that and they'll
tell you exactly who they want to see in
the in the win the presidential race and
the other half we'll tell you that
they're for the other side a lot of
people
that people assume are on one side of
the aisle or the other are in the exact
opposite side now some people are very
open about who who they're for but it's
been very interesting to see how um when
you get people one-on-one they're like
telling you they want X candidate to win
or Y candidate to win and sometimes like
really I can't believe it like you like
yep and so it's what people think
about
um people's political leads is often
exactly wrong and and that's been eye
openening for me and I've SE that um
university campuses too and and so it's
going to be really really interesting to
see what happens in in November in
addition to that as you said most people
are close to the center despite what
Twitter makes it seem like most people
whether they Center left or center right
they're kind of close to the center yeah
I mean here's the to me the most inter
in question who is going to be the next
big candidate in years to come like
who's that going to be right now I don't
I don't I don't see or know of that
person who's it going to be yeah the
young promising candidates we're not
seeing them we're not seeing like who
another way to ask that question who
would want to be well that's the issue
right you know it who wants to live in
this 12-hour news cycle where you're
just trying to you know dunk on the
other team so that nobody notices like
that you're the shit that you fucked up
you know like that that's not like
that's not only not fun or interesting
it also is just like it's got to be
psychosis inducing at some point and I
think
that you know God willing we're going to
you know some young guy or woman is like
on this and refuses to to back down and
was just like determined to be president
and we'll make it happen but like I
don't even know who
the viable candidates are maybe you Lex
you know we should ask Sagar Sagar would
know yeah yeah uh maybe Sagar himself
sagar's show is awesome yeah it he and
Crystal do a great thing he's incredible
especially since they have somewhat
Divergent opinions on things that's what
makes it so cool he's great he looks
great in the suit looks real sexy he's
taking real good care of himself I think
he's getting married soon
congratulations SAR forgive me for not
remembering your your wife future wife's
name but uh he won my heart by giving me
uh a biography of Hitler as a present
that's what he gave you yeah I gave you
a a
hatchet with a poem inscrib that just
shows the fundamental difference a poem
inscribed in it which was pretty damn
good I realize everything we bring up on
the screen is like
really depressing like the soccer player
getting killed can we bring up something
happy uh sure let's go to uh nature is
metal Instagram those are pretty intense
we actually did a collaborative post on
a on a shark thing really yeah what kind
of shark thing so to generate the fear
VR stimulus for my lab in
20 was it yeah 2016 we went down to
Guadalupe island off the coast of Mexico
me and a guy named Michael Mueller who's
a very famous um portrait photographer
but also takes photos of sharks and we
used 360 video to build VR of great
white sharks brought it back to the lab
we published that study in current
biology in 2017 went back down
there um and that was the year that I
exited the cage you lower the cage with
a crane and that year I exited the cage
I had a whole mess with a air failure
the day before I was breathing from a
hookah line while in the cage I Had No
SCUBA on divers were out the thing got
Bo constricted up and I had an air
failure and I had to actually share air
and it was a whole mess story for
another time but the next day because I
didn't want to get PTSD and it was
pretty scary the next day I cage exited
um with some other divers and it turns
out with these great white sharks in
gual Lupe that the water's very clear
and you can swim toward them and then
they'll they'll Veer off you if you swim
toward them otherwise they see you as
prey well in the evening you've brought
all the cages up and you're hopefully
all alive and we were hanging out
fishing for a tuna uh we had a one of
the the crew on board had um a a line in
the water and was fishing for tuna for
dinner and a shark took the tuna off the
line and it's a it's a very dramatic
take and you can see the the just
absolute size of these great white
sharks the the waters there are filled
with them that's the one but so this
video just the neural Link Link was shot
by Matt McDougall who is the um head
neurosurgeon at neurolink there it is
takes it now believe it or not looks
like it missed like it didn't get the
fish it actually just cut that thing
like a band saw so I'm up on the deck
with Matt yeah and so when you look at
it from the side you you really get a
sense of this of the the girth of this
freaking thing so as it comes up if you
look at the size of that thing and they
move through the water with such speed
just a couple so when you're in the cage
and the cage is lowered down below the
surface they're they're going around
you're not allowed to Chum the water
there some people do it
um but and then when you kjag sit
they're like what are you doing out here
and then you know they you swim toward
them they Veer off but what's
interesting is that if you look at how
they move through the water all it takes
for one of these great white sharks when
it sees a tuna or something it wants eat
is like two flicks of the tail and
becomes like a missile it's just
unbelievable economy of effort and ocean
Ramsay who is in my opinion the greatest
of all KJ exit shark divers this woman
who dove with enormous great white
sharks she really understands their
behavior when they're aggressive when
they're not going to be aggressive she
and her husband Juan I believe his name
is do they understand how the tiger
sharks differ from the great white
sharks we were down there basically like
not understanding any of this we never
should have been there and actually the
air failure of the day before plus K
exing the next day I told myself after
coming up from the K exit that's it I'm
no longer taking risks with my life I
want to live got back across the border
um a couple days later I was like that's
it I I don't take risk with my life any
longer but yeah McDougall Matt McDougall
shot that video and then it went quote
unquote viral through uh Nature's metal
we passed them that video I actually uh
I saw a video where an instructor was
explaining how to behave with a shark in
the water and that you don't want to be
swimming away because then you're acting
like a prey that's right and then you
want to be acting like a predator by
looking at it and swimming towards it
right towards them and they'll Bank off
now if you don't see them they're ambush
you know swimming in the surface and
apparently if they get close you should
just like guide them away by like
grabbing them and moving them away some
people will actually roll them um but if
they're coming in full speed you're not
going to roll the shark but here we are
back to dark stuff again I like the
shark attack map and the shark attack
map shows that um you know Northern
California there were a couple actually
a guy's head got taken off um he was
swimming North of San Francisco there's
been a couple in Northern uh California
that was really tragic but most of them
are in Florida in Australia Florida the
Surf Rider Foundation shark attap map
there it is had they have a great map
there you go so they look like they have
all scars on them so if you if you zoom
in on um I mean look at this if you go
to North America um look like his skulls
there's there's a yeah where their where
their deadly attacks um but in yeah
Northern California sadly this is really
tragic if you zoom in on this one um I
read about this uh this guy if you click
the link 50-year-old Mill he was in
chest high water this is just tragic I
feel so sad for him and his family you
know he's just um three members of the
party chose to go in he was you know NY
was in his chest high water 25 to 50
yards from Shore great breach the water
seized his head and that was it you know
so it does happen it's very infrequent
um if you don't go in the ocean it's a
very very very low probability um but
but if it doesn't
happen six times in a row no 120% chance
yeah who do you think wins uh ass salwat
crocodile or a shark okay I do not like
saltwater crocodiles they scare me to no
end Mueller Michael meller who Dove all
over the world he sent me a picture of
him diving uh with salties saltwater
crocs in Cuba it was a smaller one but
goodness graci have you seen the size of
some of those saltwater crocs yeah um
I'm thinking I'm thinking the the sharks
are so a agile they're amazing they've
head cammed one or body cammed one um
moving through the Kel bed um and you
look and it's just they're so agile
moving through the water and and it's
looking up at the surface like the
camera is looking at the surface and you
just realize if you're out there um
you're
not and you're swimming and you get hit
by by a shark you're not I was going to
talk shit and say that a salty has way
more bite force but according to the
internet recently data indicates that
the shark has a stronger bite so I I was
I was assuming that a crocodile would
have a a stronger bite force and
therefore agility doesn't matter but
apparently a shark yeah and turning one
of those big salties is is probably not
that you know turning around it's like a
battleship I mean those sharks are un
believe they hit from All Sorts oh and
they they do this thing we saw this
you're out of the cage or in the cage
and you and you'll look at one and and
you'll see its eye kind of like looking
at you they can't really fobi it but
they'll look at you and you're tracking
it and then you'll look down and you'll
realize that one's coming at you they're
just they're they're Ambush Predators
they're working together it's
fascinating I like I like how you know
that they can't fiate you're already
considering the vision system there it's
a very primitive system very primitive
eyes on the side of the head they vision
is decent enough they're mostly
obviously sensing things with their um
Electro sensing in the water but also um
all faction um yeah I spend far too much
time thinking about and learning about
the the visual systems of different
animals if you get me going on this like
we'll be here all night see this is what
I have the muglet on to I saw this in a
store and I got it cuz this is from a
shark goodness yeah can't say I ever saw
one with teeth this big but it's
beautiful yeah it's probably you know
probably your blood pressure just goes
and you you don't feel feel a thing yeah
it's not before we went down for the KJ
exit um a guy in our crew Pat dosu um
very experience diver um asked one of
the South African divers that um so what
you know like what's the contingency
plan if like somebody catches a bite and
they were like he was like every man for
himself and they're like basically
saying like if somebody catches a bite
like that's it yeah you know um anyway I
thought we were going to bring up
something happy well that is Happy Well
we live yeah nature is beautiful uh we
lived um but you know there are there
are happy things you brought up nature
as metal this see this is the difference
between
Russian yeah Americans and Americans
it's like maybe this is actually a good
time to bring up um your iasa journey
I've never done
iasa um but I'm curious about it I'm
also curious about ibaan iboga um but
you told me that you did iasa and that
for you it wasn't the dark scary ride
that it is for everybody else yeah it
was an incredible experience for me I
did it twice actually and have you done
high do psilocybin never know I just did
small dose psilocybin a couple times so
I was you know nervous about it I was
very understand so I've done high do
cocy and it's terrifying but I've always
gotten something very useful out of it
so I mean I was nervous about like
whatever demons might hide in the shadow
in the Y in Shadow like I was I was
nervous but I think it turns out I don't
know what the lesson is to draw from
that but my experience be born Russian
it must must be the Russian thing I mean
there also something into the jungle
there it strips away all the bullshit of
life and you're just
there I I forgot the outside
civilization exists I forgot time
because like when you don't have your
phone you don't have meetings or calls
or whatever you you lose a sense of time
the sun comes up the sun comes down
that's the the fundamental biological
timer you know every Mamon species has a
short wavelength so you think like blue
UV type but like absorbing cone and a
longer wavelength absorbing cone and the
and it does this interesting subtraction
to designate when it's morning and
evening because when the sun is low in
the sky you've got short wavelength and
long wavelength light like if you look
at a Sunrise it's got blues and yellows
orange and yellows you look in the
evening Reds orange and and blues and in
the middle of the day it's like full
spectrum light now it's always full
spectrum light but because of some
atmospheric elements and because of the
low solar angle you like that difference
between the the different wavelengths of
light is is the fundamental signal that
the neurons in your eye pay attention to
and and signal to your circadian
timekeeping mechanism like we are at the
core of our brain in the supermatic
nucleus we are we are like wired to be
entrained to the rising and setting of
the sun like that's the biological timer
which makes perfect sense because you
know obviously as the planets um as the
planets spin and revolve I also wonder
like how that is affected by you know in
the rainforest the sun is not visible
often so you're under the cover of of
the trees so maybe that affects well
there are social rhythms their feeding
rhythms sometimes in in terms of some
species will signal the timing of
activity of other species and um but
yeah getting out from the canopy is is
critical of course even Under The Canopy
during the daytime there's far more
photons than at night you know this
always when I'm telling people to get
sunlight in their eyes in the morning
and in the evening people say there's no
light no sunlight this time here I'm
like it go outside on a really cast day
it's far brighter than it is at night
right so um there's still lots of
sunlight even if you can't see the Sun
as an object but I I love um time
perception shifts and you mentioned that
in the jungle it's linked to the rising
and setting of the sun you also mention
that on iasa you zoomed out from from
the earth the these are like to me the
most interesting aspects of having a
human brain as opposed to another brain
course have only ever had a human brain
but which is that you can consciously
set your
uh time domain window like you can we
can be focused here we can be focused on
all of Austin or we can be focused on
the entire planet you can make those
choices consciously but in the time
domain it's it's hard like different
activities bring us into fine slicing or
more or more broad binning of time
depending on what we're doing
programming or exercising or researching
or podcasting but um just how
unbelievably um fluid the human brain is
in terms of its uh the aperture of of
the time space window of our cognition
and of our experience and I I feel like
this is perhaps one of the more valuable
tools that we have access to that we
don't really leverage as much as we
should which is when things are really
hard you need to zoom out and see it as
one element within your whole lifespan
and that there's more to come um you
know I mean people commit suicide
because they can't see beyond the time
domain they're in or they think it's
going to go on forever um when we're
happy we rarely think this is going to
last forever but uh which is interesting
contrast in its own right but I think
that psychedelics while I have very
little experience with them I I have
some and and it sounds like they're just
a very interesting window into the the
different apertures well how to surf
that wave is probably a
skill one of the things I was prepared
for and I think is important is not to
resist I
think I understand what it means needs
to resist a thing a powerful wave and
it's not going to be good so you have to
be able to Surf it so I was ready for
that to relax through it and maybe
because I'm quite good at that
from knowing how to relax in all kinds
of disciplines playing piano and uh
guitar when I was super young and then
through Jiu-Jitsu knowing the value of
relaxation and through all kinds of
sports to be able to relax the body
fully and just accept whatever happens
to you that process is probably why it
was a very positive experience me do do
you have any interest in iboga I'm very
interested in ibigan iboga there's a
colleague of mine and researcher at
Stanford Nolan Williams who's been doing
some transrenal magnetic stimulation and
brain Imaging on people who have taken
ibigan ibigan um as I understand it
gives a 22-hour psychedelic Journey
where no hallucinations with eyes open
but you close your eyes and you get a um
a very high resolution image of actual
events that happened in your life but
then you have agency within those movies
I think you have to be um of healthy
heart to be able to do it I think you
have to be on a heart rate monitor it's
not trivial it's not like these other
psychedelics um but there's a wonderful
group um called veteran
Solutions um that has used iboga
combined with um some other psychedelics
um in the veterans community to to great
success for things like
PTSD and it's a group i' I've really
tried to support in in any way that I
can mainly by being about the great work
they're doing but um you hear incredible
stories of people who are just like like
near cratered in their life or zombied
by PTSD and other things postwar um get
back a lightness or achieve a lightness
and a Clarity um that they didn't feel
they had so I'm very curious about these
compounds um the state of Kentucky we
should check this but um I believe has
taken money from the uh opioid crisis
settlement for ibigan research I mean so
this is like no longer yes so if you
look here let's see uh did they do it oh
no no oh no they backed away Kentucky
backs away from the plan to fund opio
treatment research with they were going
to use the money to treat opio now
officials are backing off 50 billion
what is on its way over the coming years
$50 billion $50 billion is on its way to
State and local government over the
coming years the pool of funding comes
from multiple legal statements with
pharmaceutical companies that profited
from manufacturing or selling opioid
painkillers Kentucky has some of the
highest number of deaths from the opioid
so they were going to do psychedelic
research with
ibigan supporting research on illegal
illegal folks psychedelic drug called
ibigan well I guess they backed away
from it
well sooner or later we'll get some
happy news up on the on the internet
during this episode I don't know talk
about the the shark and the crocodile
fighting yeah yeah that's true that's
true and you survived the jungle does
the the thing I was I was I was writing
to you on WhatsApp multiple times cuz I
was going to put on the internet are you
okay and if you're like alive and then I
was going to just like put it to Twitter
just like he's alive but then of course
you're far too classy for that so you
just came back
alive well jungle or not one one of the
lessons is also you know when when you
hear the call for
adventure just fucking do it I was gonna
ask you it's kind of silly question but
like give me a small fraction of things
on your bucket list bucket list yeah uh
go to
Mars yeah what's what's the status of
that I don't know I'm being patient
about the whole thing red planet ran
that cartoon of you guys uh going that
one was pretty funny true actually that
one was pretty funny one where goggin is
already up there yeah that's that's a
funny one probably also true I would
love I would love to die in Mars oh
I I I just love Humanity reaching on to
the stars and doing this bold adventure
and taking big risks and exploring I
love exploration what about seeing
different animal species I'm a huge fan
of this guy Joel
Sartor um where he he has this photo Arc
project where he takes portraits of all
these different animals if people aren't
already following him on Instagram he's
doing some really important work um this
guy's Instagram is
amazing portraits of well look at it
look at these portraits the amount of um
I want say personality because we don't
want to project anything onto them but
yeah the the like the eyes and he'll
occasionally put a movie a little owl I
Delight in things like this I've got
some content coming on animals and
animal neuroscience and eyes oh and um
dogs or all kinds of all animals um and
I'm very interested in um kids content
that that incorporates animals so we
have some things Brewing there like I I
could look at this kind of stuff all day
long look at that bat like bats people
think about bats is kind of like a
little flickering a little Annoying
disease carrying things but look how
beautiful that little sucker is how's
your uh podcast with the Cookie Monster
coming oh yeah we've been in discussions
with cookie the um it's uh can't say too
much about that but um Cookie Monster
embodies dopamine right Cookie Monster
wants cookie right wants cookie right
now you know like it was that it was
that one tweet Cookie Monster Eye balc
because cookies come from all directions
you know it's like it's just embodying
the the the desire for for something and
and which is an incredible aspect of
ourselves the other one is you remember
a little while ago um Elmo put out a
tweet hey how's everyone doing out there
and it went viral and you know the
Surgeon General of the United States
have been talking about the loneliness
crisis he came on the podcast and you
know a lot of people been talking about
problems with loneliness mental health
issues with loneliness Elmo puts out a
tweet hey how's everyone doing out there
and everyone gravitates toward it you
know so the the different Sesame Street
characters really embody the different
like kind of aspects of self through
very like narrow neural circuit
perspective um you know sagus is shy and
um Oscar the Grouch grouchy right and
the count one two the archetypes of yeah
the archetypes very young once again
yeah and I think that um you know the
creators of Sesame Street clearly either
understand that or it's an unconscious
genius to that so yeah there are some
things Brewing on on uh conversations
with Sesame Street characters it's not I
know you'd like to talk to Vladimir
Putin I'd like to talk to Cookie Monster
it illustrates the differences in our
like sophistication or something
illustrates a lot yeah illustrates a lot
um but yeah I also I love animation so
I'm not anime that's not my thing but
animation so I'm very interested in the
use of Animation to get uh science
content across so there are a bunch of
things Brewing but um but anyway I
Delight in sartori's work and and and it
there's a conservation aspect to it as
well but I think that um mostly want to
thank you for finally putting up
something that like where something's
not being killed or like like some sad
sad outcome these are all really
positive they're really cool and every
once in a while look at look at that uh
mountain lion um but I also like to look
at these and and some of them remind me
of certain people right so let's just
scroll through like for instance I think
when we don't try and process it too
much so like like okay look at this cat
this Civic cat amazing like I feel like
that's somebody I feel like this is like
a like someone I met once as curiosity
curiosity and a playfulness um carnivore
carnivore frontalization
influencers you see on Instagram right
except this one's natural just kidding
um uh let's see no filter um filter yeah
um let's see like I feel like Bears I'm
a big fan of bears yeah bears are
beautiful this one kind of reminds me of
you a little bit there's like a stoic
nature to it a curiosity so you can kind
of feel like the essence of animals you
don't even have to do psychedelics to
get there look at that he's like the
behind the scenes of How It's
actually and then there's um
wow yeah yeah the In the Jungle the
diversity of life was also Stark from a
scientific perspective just the fact
that most of those species are not
identified was fascinating right it was
like a little every little every little
insect is a kind of Discovery right I
mean one of the reasons I love New York
city so much despite its problems at
times is that um everywhere you look
there's life it's like a tropical Reef
if you've ever done scuba diving or
snorkeling you look on a tropical reef
and it's like there's some little crab
working on something and like everywhere
you look there's life you know in the
Bay Area if you go scuba diving or
snorkeling it's like a kelp bed you know
the Bay Area is like a Kel bed every
once in a while some big fish goes by
it's like a big IPO but like most of the
time not a whole lot happens actually
the Bay Area it's interesting as I've
been going back there more and more
recently um there are really cool little
subcultures starting to pop up again
nice um there's incredible skateboarding
the gx1000 guys are these guys that like
bomb down Hills they're in nuts like
they're just going like so just speed
not tricks you got to see gx1000 these
guys going downhills in San Francisco
they are wild and occasionally
unfortunately occasionally someone will
get hit by a car but if you
gx1000 look into intersections they have
spotters you can see someone
there um oh I see there's a some into
traffic yeah into traffic so in San
Francisco yeah this is crazy like this
is unbelievable and um and they're
they're just
wild but in any case what's on your
bucket list that you haven't done well
I'm working on a book so I'm actually
going to head to a cabin for a couple
weeks and write which I've never done um
people talk about doing this but I'm
going to do that that's I'm excited for
that just the mental space of really
dropping into writing like Jack
Nicholson and The Shining C let's hope
not okay let's hope not you know before
I mean I only started doing public
facing anything posting on Instagram in
2019 but I used to head up to Wala on
the northern coast of California um
sometimes by myself um to a little cabin
there and spend a weekend by myself and
just read and write papers and things
like that I used do that all the time I
I I missed that so some of that um I'm
trying to spend a bit more time with my
relatives in Argentina relatives in on
the East Coast see my parents more
they're in good health thankfully I want
to get married and have a family that's
an important priority
and putting a lot of lot of work in
there yeah that's a big one yeah one
yeah putting a lot of work um into the
the the runway on that um what's your
advice for people about that or give
advice to yourself about how to find
love in this world how to find how to
build a family get there and and then
I'll listen to it someday and see if I
hit the marks um yeah well obviously
pick the right partner but also like do
the work on yourself know know yourself
the Oracle know thyself and I think um
listen I have a friend he's a new friend
but he's a friend uh who I met for uh a
meal he's a very very well-known actor
overseas and his stuff has made it over
here and um we become friends and we
went to lunch and we were talking about
work and being public facing and all
this kind of thing and and then I I said
you have kids right and he says he has
four kids I was like oh yeah you know I
see your post with the kids you seem
really happy and he said he just looked
at me he leaned in and he said it's the
best gift you'll ever give yourself and
he also said and pick your partner the
mother of your kids very carefully so
you know that's good advice coming from
excellent advice coming from somebody
who's you know very successful in work
and family so that's the only thing I
can pass along we hear this from friends
of ours as well but um kids are amazing
and Family's am amazing and um you know
that's a different people all these
people who want to like be immortal and
like live to be 200 or something you
know there's also the the oldfashioned
way of you know having children that
live on and evolve a new Legacy but they
have you know half your DNA so that's
exciting yeah I think you would make an
amazing Dad thank you it seems like a
fun thing and you know I've also gotten
advice from friends who are uh super
high performing and have a lot lot of
kids they'll say just don't overthink it
right start having kids let's go right
well the chaos of kids is kind of the
like it can either bury you or it can or
it can Fe give you energy but I grew up
in a big pack of boys always doing like
wild and crazy things and so that kind
of energy is great and and if it's not a
big pack of wild boys it's you know you
have daughters and they can be you know
different form of chaos sometimes same
form of chaos um how many kids do you
think you want um
you know it's either two or
five yeah very different Dynamics you're
one of two right you have a brother yeah
um I mean I'm very close with my sister
I couldn't imagine having another
sibling because it there's so much
richness there we we talk almost every
day or you know three four times a week
you know U sometimes just briefly but
we're we're tight you know we're really
look out for one another um she's
amazing person like truly an amazing
person and is like
raised her daughter in amazing way she's
like you know my niece is like gonna
head to college in a year or two and
like my sister's done an amazing job and
her dad's done a a great job too they
they both really put a lot into um the
family aspect got don't has to spend
time with a really amazing person in the
in Peru in the Amazon jungle and he is
one of 20 kids wow so he's got Mo it's
mostly guys so it's just a lot of
brothers and I think two sisters wow I
just had Jonathan height on the podcast
the guy who's talking the anxious
generation calling in the American mind
he's great but he was saying that you
know in order to keep kids healthy they
need to not be on social media or have
smartphones until they're 16 I've
actually been thinking a lot about
getting a bunch of friends onto
neighboring properties you know everyone
talks about this not creating a commune
or anything like that but I think he I
think Jonathan's right we we were more
or less our brain wiring does best when
we raised in small village type
environments where kids can forage the
whole Freer range kids idea and I grew
up skateboarding and building Forts and
dirt CLA Wars and all that stuff um it
would be so strange to have a childhood
without
that yeah and I think more and more as
we wake up to the negative aspects of
digital interaction we'll put more and
more value to inperson interaction so I
mean it's cool to see for instance kids
in New York City just kind of moving
around the city with so much sense of
agency it's really really cool the
suburbs like where I grew up like as
soon as we could get out take the 7f bus
up to San Francisco and hang out with
you know Wild Ones like you know while
there were dangers I mean we couldn't
wait to get out of the suburbs the
moment that you know Forts and dirt CLA
Wars and stuff didn't didn't cut it we
just like wanted into the city so I um
bucket list I will probably move to a
major city not Los Angeles or San
Francisco um in the next few years um
New York City potentially those are all
such different flavors of experiences
yeah so i' I'd love to live in New York
City for a while I've always wanted to
do that and I and I will do that I've
always wanted to also have a place in a
very rural so area so Colorado Montana
are high on my list right now and to be
able to Pivot back and forth between the
two would be great just for such
different experiences I and also I like
a very physical life so the idea of
getting up in the sun with the sun in
Montana or Colorado type en environment
um and and I've been doing some putting
some effort towards finding a spot um
for that and New York City to me I know
it's got its issues and people say it
wasn't what it was okay I get it but
listen I've never lived there so for me
it would be entirely new and um you know
sches seems full of life there is an
energy to that City and he represents
that I mean there's yeah and and the
full diversity of weird that is
represented in New York City is great
yeah walk down the street there's like a
person with like a cat on their head and
no one gives a shit you know that's
great San Francisco used to be like that
the joke was like you have to be naked
and on fire in San Francisco before
someone Tes but now it's changed but
again it recently I've noticed that San
Francisco it's not just about the
skateboarders it's there's um some
Community houses of people in Tech that
are super interesting there's some
community housing of people not in Tech
um that I've learned about him been um
known people have lived there and and
it's it's cool like there's stuff
happening um in these cities that's new
and different I mean that's what youth
is for they're supposed to evolve evolve
things
out uh so amidst all that you still have
to get shit done I've been really
obsessed with tracking time recently
like making sure I have daily activities
I have habits that I'm
maintaining and I'm very religious about
making sure I get shit done do you use
an app or something like that no just
Google sheets so basically a spreadsheet
and I'm tracking daily and I write
scripts that that uh whenever I I
achieve a goal glows
green yeah do you track your workouts
and all that kind of stuff too no the
just the fact that I got the workout
done yeah so I just it's a check mark
thing so I I'm really really big on
making sure I do a thing it doesn't
matter how long it is so I have a rule
for myself that I do a set of tasks uh
for at least five minutes every
day and it turns out that many of them I
do way longer but just even just doing
it I have to do it every day and there's
currently 11 of them it's just a thing
like one of them is playing guitar for
example so do you do that kind of stuff
do you do uh like daily habits yeah I do
my um I wake up if I don't feel I slept
enough I do this non-sleep deep rest
yoga Nedra thing that I talked about a
bunch we actually least a few of those
tracks as audio tracks on Spotify um 10
minute 20 minute ones puts me back into
a state that feels like sleep and I feel
very rested actually Matt Walker and I
are going to run a study he just
submitted the IRB to run a study on nsdr
and what it's actually doing to the
brain there's some evidence of increases
in dopamine Etc but those are older
studies still cool studies but um so
I'll do that get up hydrate and if I've
got my act together I punch some
caffeine down like some matina some
coffee maybe another matina and
resistance train 3 days a week run three
days a week and then take one day off um
and like to be done by 8:39 and then I
want to get into some real work I
actually have a sticky note on my
computer it's like just like reminding
me how good it feels to accomplish some
real work and then I go into it right
now it's the book writing researching a
podcast and just fight tooth and nail to
stay off social media text message
WhatsApp YouTube all that um get
something done how long can you go can
you go like 3 hours just deep focus if I
hit a Groove uh yeah 90 minutes to three
hours if I'm really in a Groove um
that's tough that's for me I start the
day actually that's why I'm afraid I'd
really prize that those morning hours I
start with the work yeah and uh it's
it's it's
a I'm trying to hit the 4H hour mark of
deep focus great I love it and
of I'm really really big it's it's often
torture actually it's really really
difficult oh yeah the agitation but I
I've sat across the table from you a
couple years ago when I was out here in
Austin doing some work and I was working
on stuff you were and I no you'll just
like stare at your notebook sometimes
just like pen at the same position and
then you'll get back into it like
there're those W building that hydraulic
pressure and then go yeah try and get
something done of value then it the
Communications start and talking to my
podcast producer my team is everything I
mean like the the magic potion in the
podcast is Rob Moore right um who's in
the has been in the room with me every
single solo costell used to be in there
with us because that's it people have
asked journalists have asked can they
sit in friends have asked nope just Rob
and uh for guest interviews he's there
as well and I talk to Rob all the time
all the time we multiple times per day
and um you know in life i' I've made
some errors in certain relationship
domains in my life in terms of partner
choice and things like that and um
certainly don't blame all of it on them
but you know I've played my role but but
in terms of picking business partners
and friends like you know to work with I
mean Rob's just it's been bulls eyes and
it's just Rob has been amazing Mike
playback our photographer and the guys I
mentioned earlier like we just
communicate as much as we need to and we
pour over every decision like near
neuroticism before we make we put
anything out there and so including like
even creative decisions of like topics
to cover all that yeah like a like a
photo for the book jacket the other day
Mike shoots photos then and then we look
at them we pour over them together um
logo for the perform podcast with Andy
Galpin that we're launching like is that
the right Contour Mike's the real he's
got the aesthetic thing because he was
at DC so long as a portrait photographer
um and he he was close friends with Ken
Block did Jim cona like all the car
jumping in the city stuff like I mean
Mike is a m he's a he's a true master of
that stuff and um and we just pour over
every little decision but even which
sponsors you know there are dozens of
ads now by the way that that whole jaer
Sizer thing of me saying oh guy went
from a two to a seven I never said that
that's AI like I would never call number
off somebody a two to a seven are you
kidding me it's crazy so it's AI if you
bought the thing I'm sorry um but like
our sponsors we list the sponsors that
have and why on our website and like the
decision do we work with this person or
not do we still like the product I mean
we've we've cut ways with sponsors
because of like changes in the product
or CH you know most the time it's
amicable all good but you know like just
every detail and that just takes a ton
of time and energy but I try and work
mostly on content and my team's
constantly trying to keep me out of the
other discussions um but I because I
obsess but um yeah you you have to you
have to have a team of sort someone that
you can run things PO for sure but one
of the challenges the larger the team is
and I I'd like to be involved in a lot
of different kinds of stuff including
engineering stuff robotics work
research all of those interactions at
least for me take away from the deep
work the the deep focus unfortunately I
get uh drained by social interaction
even with the people I love and really
respect and all that kind of stuff
you're an introvert yeah like
fundamentally an introvert so to me it's
a tradeoff getting shit done versus
collaborating and I have to choose
wisely because without collaboration
without a great team which I'm fortunate
enough to be a part of like you wouldn't
get anything really done but as an
individual contributor to get stuff done
like to do the hard work of researching
or programming all that kind of stuff
you need the hours of deep work I used
to spend a lot more time alone that's
that's all my bucket list spend a bit
more time dropped into work alone it I
think social media like
causes our brain to go the other
direction I try and answer some comments
and then and then get back to work I'm
really after going to the Jungle I
appreciate not using the
device I've played with the idea of like
spending C maybe like one week a month
not using social media at all MH I use
it so after that morning block I'll eat
some lunch and I'll usually do something
while I'm doing lunch or something and
then a bit more work and that real work
deep work and then
around 2:30 I do a non-sleep depress
take a short nap wake up boom maybe a
little more caffeine and then lean into
it again and then you know if you I find
if you really put in the Deep work two
or three boutots per day by about five
or 6 p.m. it's over I was down at joo's
place not that long ago and in the
evening did a sauna session with him and
some family members of his and some of
their friends and it's really cool like
they'll all work all day and train all
day and then in the evening they get
together together and they they sauna
and coal plunge I'm I'm really into this
whole thing of of gathering with other
people at a specific time of day I have
a gym at my house and I I you know Tim
will come over and train or you know
that we've kind of slowed that down in
recent months but I think gathering in
groups once a day being alone for part
of the day it's like very fundamental
stuff we're not saying anything that
hasn't been said millions of times
before but how often do people actually
do that and and and call the party you
know like be the person to like bring
people together if it's not happening
that's something I've really had to
learn even though I'm an introvert like
hey like gather people together you came
through town the the other day and there
a lot of people at the house rad
actually it was funny cuz I was getting
a massage when you walked in I don't sit
around getting massages very often but I
was getting one that day and then
everyone came in and the dog came in
like everyone was piled in it was it was
very sweet again no devices but Choose
Wisely the people you gather with right
right and I was
clothed thank you for clarifying I
wasn't which is very
weird uh yeah yeah the the the friends
you surround yourself with that that's
another thing it's like I understood
that from Mya and from just the
experience in the jungle is like just
select the people just be careful how
you allocate your time I just saw on um
somewhere Conor McGregor has this good
line I wrote it down about loyalty he
said don't eat with people you wouldn't
starve with oh that guy is I mean he's
big on loyalty all the shit talk all of
that set that aside to me like loyalty
is really big cuz then if you invest in
certain people in your life and they
stick by you and you stick by them and
what the what else is life about yeah
well hardship will show you who your
real friends are that's for sure and um
you know we're fortunate to have a lot
of them it'll also show you who you know
who really like has put in the time to
try and understand you and and
understand people like people are
complicated I love that so can you read
the quote once more don't eat with
people you wouldn't starve
with yeah so in that way a hardship is a
gift it shows you definitely and it
makes you stronger it definitely makes
you stronger
let's go get some food yeah you're one
meal a day guy yeah I actually ate
something earlier but it was like a
protein shake and a couple pieces of
Bill Tong I hope we're eating a steak I
hope so too I'm full of nicotine and
caffeine yeah what do you think how you
feel I feel good yeah I was I was
thinking need probably like I only did a
half a piece and I won't have more for
for a little while but a little too good
yeah thank you for talking once again by
yeah thanks so much Lex um been been a
great ride this podcast thing and you're
the reason I started the podcast you
inspired me to do it you told me to do
it did it and you've also been an
amazing friend you showed up in some
some very challenging times and you've
shown up for me publicly you've shown up
for me in in my home in my life and you
know uh it's an honor to have you as a
friend thank you I love you brother love
you
too thanks for listening to this
conversation with Andrew huberman the
this podcast please check out our
sponsors in the description and now let
me leave you with some words from Carl
Young until you make the unconscious
conscious it will direct your life and
you will call it
fate thank you for listening and hope to
see you next time