Kind: captions
Language: en
it's a sad State of Affairs when our
some of the most influential voices in
our country will label someone a uh a
lover or supporter of dictators simply
because you're saying hey we shouldn't
be going to war there is another
way the following is a conversation with
Tuli gabard who was a longtime Democrat
including being the vice chair of the
Democratic National Committee she
endorsed Bernie in 2016 and Biden in
2020 she has been both loved and heavily
criticized for her independent thinking
and bold political stances especially on
topics of War and the
military-industrial complex she served
in the US military for many years
achieving the rank of Lieutenant Colonel
and now she's the author of a new book
called for love of
country this is Al Lex Freedman podcast
to to support it please check out our
sponsors in the description and now dear
friends here's Tulsi
gabard you've served in the US military
for many years achieving rank of
Lieutenant Colonel you were deployed in
Iraq in 2004 and 5 Kuwait in 2008 and9
what lessons about life and about
country have you learned from that
experience of War so many Central to
those Lessons Learned was having my eyes
open to the very real cost of
War you know of course I I served in a
medical unit uh during that first
deployment to Iraq it was 2005 during
the height of that war and uh
unfortunately we took a lot of
casualties we across the entire US
military uh my Brigade that I deployed
with was from the Hawaii National Guard
we had approximately 3,000 soldiers who
were operating in in four different
areas of Iraq and my first task every
day was to go through a list of every
injury combat related injury that had
occurred the day before in the country
and I went through that list Name by
name uh looking to see if any one of our
nearly 3,000 soldiers from Hawaii um had
been hurt in the line of duty and then
if seeing them on the list tracking them
down where were they were they getting
the care they needed would they be able
to get sufficient care to stay in
country and and return to duty did I
need to get them evacuated usually it
would be to military hospitals that at
that time were in lawn stool and
Ramstein in Germany and then from there
getting them to either uh Brook Army
Medical Center which is here in Texas
that specialized in Burn related
injuries or to Walter Reed and tracking
that them and their care until they were
finally um home with their
families and it never became a routine
task it never became
like okay cool check the list you know
kind of dot the eyes cross the teas it
it was that daily confrontation with the
reality of the cost of War uh friends of
mine were killed in
combat experiencing firsthand that High
human cost of War
caused me you know 20-some year old from
Hawaii I had had left my seat in the
state legislature to volunteer to deploy
with my brothers and sisters in in my
unit to Iraq and so recognize the cost
of War I think in two fundamental ways
number one is the high human cost of War
on our troops and on the people in the
country where this war was being waged
and also the cost on American
taxpayers seeing then back is again 2005
and recognizing
KBR halberton one of the biggest defense
Contracting companies then and I know
that they are still very much in that
business now uh Dick Cheney being
connected with that company at one point
or another but in our camp specifically
which was one of the larger ones in Iraq
at that
time there wasn't
anything that happened in our camp that
didn't have the KBR halberton logo
imprinted on it we had a big Shack
looking place where we ate our meals
they call it a dining facility a defac
in the military and they served four
meals a day they brought in and they
being KBR Halbert and they imported
workers in from places like Nepal and
Sri Lanka and the Philippines to come in
and cook food and work at this dining
facility um I got curious about how much
how much it cost us as taxpayers and so
I started asking around some of the
people and I think at that time it was
like well every time a soldier or a
service member walks through the door if
I were to go in for breakfast and grab a
banana and walk out that's an automatic
$35 per head per meal four times a day
thousands and thousands of people and
then we made friends you know there
there's a lot there's a pretty large
Filipino community in Hawaii a lot of
Filipino soldiers from Hawaii we made
friends with the Filipino workers who
were there they would often go in like
the back of the tents and set up their
own like rice cookers and cook their own
meals um which is where the real good
food was uh but just started talking to
them and getting to know them and ask
like hey how much do you get paid and on
average it was like oh I get paid like
500 bucks a month 500 bucks a month to
go and do this work of of either you
know cleaning out porta potties um
picking up trash the dining facility
doing laundry all of these different
tasks because um the military wanted
soldiers to be out doing things that
only soldiers could do understandable
but when I started putting you know two
and two together and knowing that this
company one company alone was making
trillions of dollars trillions of
dollars and yet
this Filipino mom is making 500 bucks a
month maybe getting one day off a week
maybe working 12 hours a day otherwise I
said how you know how long how often are
you able to go home uh to your family
well they let they'll let us go home a
couple of weeks every other year it was
it was an eye-opening experience that
growing up in Hawaii I had I frankly
hadn't given much thought to before um
but it's what led me ultimately coming
back from that first deployment there
was no way that I could go back to the
life that I had left behind and I knew
somehow someway I needed to find a way
to use those experiences to try to make
a positive impact to try to
influence those I mean frankly the
politicians who were making decisions to
go um and launch these regime change
Wars and and send our men and women in
uniform into war and and to what end
ultimately if we can just go back to
that list yeah so the list is just name
and injury name and injury name unit
potentially location if someone had
documented that and and their injury and
it's just pages and pages of that yeah
yeah and and I knew you know I I didn't
get to call home every day but when I
called home and talked to my
parents I felt um the tension in their
voice and you know they they didn't want
me to worry about anything at home and
so they were always like hey how are you
what can we send you and this and that
but you know it wasn't like I was
calling them from down the street and
saying hey how's it going let's let's go
have lunch or
whatever um and so I knew that the
reason for that tension was they were
terrified of getting a phone call
delivering the worst possible news and
that was what I thought of as I went
through that list of of how you know it
is the reality of War behind every one
of those names on that list was you know
a husband or a wife parents you know
Sons and Daughters family members uh who
had no idea what we were dealing with
really all they knew was what they saw
on the news and what my dad told me
later when I got
home after that deployment was that
every time they saw the news and they
saw a helicopter shot down or crashed or
some
IED uh they they held their breath until
they saw or heard the news of of who it
was or or what it was what can you say
about what the soldiers had to go
through physically and psychologically
when when they get
injured the physical um you know I mean
some some injuries appeared to be minor
upfront uh at that time traumatic brain
injury was not something that was talked
about much if at
all uh and so you know many had visible
wounds others are now what we know were
appeared like all right cool you checked
out but had invisible wounds those who
were
injured in a way that did not allow them
to get back to work found it emotionally
very difficult to be put on a plane and
evacuated out of there um feeling guilty
that they were leaving their friends
behind and
um not thinking about themselves or not
feeling bad for themselves but instead
feeling bad for being forced to be in a
position to
leave um you know for for soldiers it's
not of course we all have our own
political opinions on things but when it
comes right down to it in a war zone
it's about your friends it's about your
brothers and sisters that you're serving
alongside it's not about the politicians
or whatever insanity is going on in
Washington it's
about getting up and going out getting
the job done and coming back home
together I mean I I had friends of mine
who were from Hawaii who were from
American Samoa very culturally
tight-knit
Community who confided in me throughout
that you know year that we were there
some of the very infantry soldiers who
were going out on security patrols and
and doing raids every day um just some
of the
very traumatic experiences that they
went through no physical injury but um
creating a kind of emotional stress and
Trauma that as human beings they were
struggling in dealing
with um on a positive note you know I
Polynesian culture especially but but
also Asian culture and other cultures
around the world our guys found that as
they were shortly after we got there the
unit that we were replacing you know
were taking the guys out on patrol and
saying hey here's this Village here's
where we found friendlies or here's
where we know that there are insurgents
operating and they've got allies and
Lookouts and you know showing them the
lay of the land basically and what our
guys found was that as they were doing
these ride alongs they call it a left
seat right seat when you're coming in
and taking over um that there was there
was a bit of a a tense even adversarial
type of
relationship where uh on on the military
side there was an assumption of
Suspicion or lack of trust uh just with
the local local Iraqi people who lived
around the base that we were at and
without anybody telling them to
culturally our guys began trying to
build
relationships and um you know for Hawaii
and and Samoa and we had soldiers from
Guam and
Sian little things like you're riding
down in a hve you've got a gunner in the
turret with a 50 cal or a machine gun of
some sort little things like pointing
the muzzle to the sky as you're riding
through a town rather than pointing it
directly at where people are walking
down the street was a huge gesture of an
assumption of hey let's let's let's
actually talk and become friends we had
our guys riding down the street and
throwing shakas out to the to the local
people there uh breaking bread sharing
tea and building those relationships and
and again I served in a medical unit and
what we saw was uh a Down Ward shift in
um in casualties from the unit that had
been there before us simply because of
that that basic human connection that
our guys sought to make and then
gradually finding like hey local you
know people who lived in the in the town
right next to us were saying hey you
guys should really somebody was digging
a big hole down this a mile down the
road you might want to bypass that or
check that out and finding weapons
cachets and IEDs improvised explosive
devices and other things uh that helped
save people's
lives on the cost side of things how is
it possible for a company like halberton
or others to get away with $40 bananas
or however much it was the overhead
costs look what they will claim is that
it's expensive to move Logistics through
a country at
War but they get away with it
ultimately um these in
Ane this insane war profiteering and
they're not alone obviously there are
other companies that this is their
business model they get away with it
because of their political
connections and the lobbyists that they
have the relationships they have with
politicians and ultimately what
President Eisenhower warned against with
that with regard to that cozy
relationship between Congress and even
what he called then the
military-industrial complex it's been
alive and well he warned us against it
and I would say it's thriving more now
uh than ever before how powerful is the
military-industrial comp complex is as a
thing is it a is it a machine that can
be slowed down can be stopped can be
reversed it can be it's powerful I don't
think you can overstate the powerful
nature of it because it it extends so
deeply within our
government uh it it it's not just those
in these specific big defense
Contracting companies that benefit from
it you look at the revolving door within
the Pentagon for example where you have
both high-ranking people who wear
military uniforms as well as those who
serve as high-ranking uh Department of
Defense civilians who are literally
working their way into a big payout when
they leave that job uh we see it with
our own Secretary of Defense now he
retired as a general officer went and
served on uh one of the boards for one
of the big defense contractors and then
now back as the Secretary of Defense we
see the same thing in congress with
members of Congress and Senior
professional staffers in Congress same
exact revolving door where you have
people whether they're writing contracts
for the Department of Defense for the
company that then wins the bid for that
contract and then going and working for
that company or those in Congress who
are writing policy
and doing exactly the same thing you
have been both a war hawk and a war Dove
at times so what is your philosophy on
when war is Justified and when it is not
war is Justified when it is in the best
interest of our national
security uh and when it is the last
resort when all diplomatic efforts have
been uh uh completed and
exhausted uh and war
is the last possible route that must be
taken to ensure the safety security and
freedom of the American people so that's
a highlevel uh beautiful ideal but
there's uh messy details so terrorism
for example yes the United States
involvement in the war in Iraq and
Afghanistan was in part the big umbrella
of the war on
terrorism so so you know when you decide
whether something's Justified or not and
whether something can be defeated or not
how hard is it is it even possible to
what degree is it possible to defeat
terrorism well first of all uh there's
part part of the problem of our foreign
policy has been how many conflicts Wars
military actions have been waged in the
name of this quote unquote war on
terrorism in the name of national secur
uh legislation like the Patriot Act that
violates civil liberties our civil
liberties and freedoms in the name of
the war on terrorism and National
Security when it's not justified and so
I'll use Afghanistan as an example I
support the initial mission that lifted
off shortly after the attack on 9911 the
islamist terrorist attack on 911 it was
a relatively small group of US military
launched to go after those Al-Qaeda
cells and Osama Bin Laden in the wake of
that
attack that is the mission that should
have been uh supported and focused on in
its execution instead as you know it
was attention was diverted very quickly
to uh the regime change war in Iraq um
that was waged on uh false pretenses and
the resources and focus was taken away
from that initial mission that went to
Afghanistan uh and the war in
Afghanistan blew up into something that
became about regime change and
governance and the Taliban and less
focus on Al-Qaeda and Osama Bin Laden
and it became this thing that even
General officers had a hard time um
articulating what is the objective here
what are we trying to accomplish what
does winning look like what at what
point do we know it's time to exit and
get out and if you as as you look at
things like the you know the Afghanistan
files and others um the answers to these
simple and essential questions shifted
and changed over time over a very long
time uh similarly in in Iraq you know
the I I bought into a lot of what was
being sold by the administration and by
Democrats and Republicans and Congress
at the time and very quickly even as I
was on the ground there started to have
my eyes opened up into um how we had
been how we had been lied to
tremendously and how that protracted War
went on for a very very long time with
decisions being made that ultimately
served to strengthen uh terrorist groups
like Al-Qaeda the creation of Isis and
others uh really undermining our
national security interest in the
meantime understanding the enemy that
you are trying to defeat is essential to
being able to uh build a
strategy the the
Declaration um of President Biden for
example saying well the war on terror is
over the war on terror is over what does
that mean or the forever Wars are over
what does that actually mean um I served
uh I served on my last most recent
deployment in 2021 to East Africa and
Somalia where al-shabab is one of those
islamist terrorist groups that follows
the same ideology as Al-Qaeda Isis uh
Hamas and others this group has been
allowed to grow and be strengthened even
though they are one of the main groups
that provides funding to al-Qaeda in
that entire region so any president or
politician can declare a war to be over
but when you have uh an enemy like these
islamist terrorist groups
who are still intent on their goal and
their objective which is to ultimately
establish their Islamic caliphate and uh
you know destroy Israel and and
exterminate the Jewish people and and
basically destroy kill or convert anyone
who doesn't adhere to their
ideology uh that continues on and it it
they will only become stronger the
longer our leaders put their heads in
the sand and pretend like oh no this
doesn't exist
uh this kind of War this war
specifically is one that has to be waged
militarily and ideologically and the
ideological component to this which is
defeating their ideology with a superior
one is one that I pointed out in
Congress during the Obama
Administration
um we the collective we were failing at
the Obama Administration was failing at
because they were so afraid of being
labeled
islamophobes that they refused to
accurately identify the ideology driving
these terrorist groups and instead said
oh we are countering violent extremism
was the term that the Obama
Administration started to use and was
coined and and kind of mandated across
the US
government well you have to know again
you have to know the enemy that
threatens you and why they're doing what
they're doing if you have any hope of
actually uh preventing their attack both
militarily and as reing now with with
hamas's actions not only directly in the
assault on Israel but how they Hamas
achieved their objectives in spreading
their ideology around the world if you
look at the lessons learned
from the US involvement in Afghanistan
and in Iraq how do you fight terrorism
clearly understanding who they are and
where they are and why they're doing
what they're doing is essential first of
all
um and obviously there are different
groups different names they have morphed
and changed uh based on their local and
how they
operate uh building
relationships uh with people in other
countries both state leaders as well as
religious leaders and others who share
that same objective of defeating these
islamist terrorist in on both fronts and
and acting as a united front in taking
that action what that what exactly that
action looks like details on the ground
dictate that details about these
different groups will dictate that but
we've seen examples of this before and I
saw this in Somalia we we saw it uh in
some cases in Iraq where for example you
have um imams who
recognize the threat that these
terrorist groups posed to their own
people and their own communities and
exerting their influence in defeating
that um the terrorist islamist ideology
with their own teachings of Islam and
preaching peace amongst their people war
is ugly and it is messy uh it is also an
unfortunate reality of the world we live
in uh so while
I firmly believe that we must always
pursue peace I'm not a pacifist I'm a
realist
and recognize that uh where there are
these threats uh we must we must do what
we can to work towards that that safety
that security that freedom and peace
that that we all want if we look at the
perspective of Israel in the Israel Gaza
war going on
now what do you
do with the fact that a the death of a
civilian
serves as a
catalyst gives birth to hate potentially
generational hate so in Israel stated
goal of destroying Hamas they are
creating immeasurable hate what do you
do with that from a perspective of
Israel what is the correct action to
take in response to October 7th that's a
complex question with a complex answer I
think Israel's
approach has to be in in recognizing
that
delineation as far as possible and I
know it's tough when you
have um a terrorist group like Hamas
that is so interwoven within the
community of people in
Gaza but to recognize that there there
should be and there is a shared purpose
there for the Palestinian people
to be able to live free and in peace and
not under the oppression of this
terrorist group just as the people of
Israel would like to live in peace and
free from the threat of attack from a
terrorist group that wants to
exterminate them the complexities of
what's going on in Israeli politics is I
think a different conversation but also
one that is directly intertwined with
the answer to this question when you
have some people in the Israeli
government who don't want the
Palestinian people in Gaza at all and
want them to go and repatriate in other
countries uh I think that's a big
problem and that further
exacerbates this hatred and resentment
that um continues to grow there this is
a Generations long challenge
unfortunately of of uh the resentment
and tension that exists between many
Israelis and many
Palestinians that can only be resolved
when there's strong leadership
representing both peoples who are are
able and willing to come together and
recognize that the only way forward is
to let the past be in the past and find
a way towards peace in the future how do
you think how do you hope the war in
Ukraine will end the only way that this
war ends is is to do exactly what we're
talking about there has to be a brokered
dialogue uh
and conversation about
peace that has to occur with
representatives from from Russia and
Ukraine um it's it is really truly
heartbreaking to see both how efforts
that began just weeks after Russia
invaded Ukraine to do exactly this were
thwarted uh by the Biden Harris
Administration and other Western Powers
has cost so many innocent people's lives
and this is where I get I get um I I
have friends in Ukraine I've been there
uh more than a few times I've enjoyed
and appreciated the time that I've I've
spent there I I when I hear from my
friends
about how afraid they are of their
husbands being conscript conscripted and
you know feeling like they have to hide
for fear of being yanked off the streets
the the their friends friends and family
members who've been killed in this
war the only way this ends is when both
sides come to the table and find an
agreement that neither side is going to
be completely happy with both sides
being forced to make some concessions
but one where um they will both walk
away and and this war can end what's the
role of uh the US president perhaps to
bring everybody to the table do you
think that the US President should sit
down with ziny and Putin together yes
yes in an Ideal World yes uh this this
should have happened long
ago uh the question of whether or not
President Biden is the right person to
do that at this time when uh all of the
statements and comments that they have
made the Biden Harris Administration has
made from the beginning of this
war essentially point to their objective
being to basically destroy Russia uh and
that's one of the reasons why they have
supported uh both the continuation of
this war for as long as it's lasted as
well as why they have thwarted efforts
towards
peace
uh whoever that most effective neutral
broker is um that that's the best person
uh to do this um the Biden Harris
Administration I think the the role that
they have to take is actually
encouraging
zilinski uh to sit down and begin this
process those kinds of engagements are
the most to me the most powerful
exercises of diplomacy that can't be
matched especially when our our
president's foremost role and
responsibility is to serve as
commander-in-chief and I wish that we
had leaders who were more willing to
engage because I think we'd we'd make a
lot more progress more quickly and to to
find areas both of mutual interest as
well as to help de deconflict and
deescalate um areas where there is
tension or disagreement or adversarial
interests well some of it is basic human
camaraderie like people call me naive
for this but sometimes just knowing that
there's a human on the other side even
like when it's in
private if you look at zalinsky and
Putin for
example
just humor both are very intelligent
witty at times even funny people yes
this is war time yes a lot of civilians
and soldiers are dying there's hate but
if you can look above it all and think
about the future of the countries the
flourishing of a people and the stopping
of the death of civilians and soldiers
then in that place you can have that
basic human connection I agree I don't
think that's naive at all and I think
there are so many examples through
history that point
to the power of that the real power in
that um in you know the Cuban Missile
Crisis how JFK had to literally find a
secret way to communicate with kushev to
try
to go around the backs of the military
commanders who were urging him to take
military action and instead find hey we
both ultimately want the same thing
neither of us wants to launch a
catastrophic nuclear war so let's figure
this out of course there's examples
throughout history you know leaders are
complicated people they're manipulative
people so you have like Hitler and
Chamberlain meeting and Chamberlain kind
of getting uh Hoodwinked by Hitler's
Charisma and being convinced that Hitler
doesn't have any interest in invading
and destroying the rest of the world so
you know you have to uh he smart
don't be
Hoodwinked um you've met you've been
criticized for this uh you've met with
syian President Bashar al-
Assad and uh as part of the campaign
when you running for president got
criticized for not calling him a war
criminal what's the right way to meet
and communicate with these kinds of
leaders we as as as I just stated we
need leaders who have the courage to
meet not just with allies but with
adversaries
in the pursuit of Peace in the pursuit
of
increased understanding uh if policies
are being made through the the lenses
and the barriers of
bureaucrats and the media and others who
have or may have their own
interests um our president a leader
can't make even members of Congress
can't make decisions with the kind of
Clarity that we the American people need
them to make I think that these kinds of
engagements
are weaponized and politicized as they
were against me um by those
who have their own interests whether it
be the military-industrial complex or in
Washington if you're not part of of the
official Narrative of the US government
um which was intent on a regime change
war in Syria then then you're an
outcast and uh it it was it was it was
unfortunate
because you know people people levied
all kinds of accusations and and you
know smears against me for going and and
having the audacity to go and and learn
more try to seek the truth in the hopes
of preventing more needless war and in
the hopes of preventing yet another
Quagmire and disastrous war in the
Middle East and simply for going and yes
meeting with Assad also meeting with
religious leaders in Syria also meeting
and talking with people on the streets
in of of Damascus talking with college
students talking with people from the
opposition party who who would like to
see Assad replaced
um you know talking with local just a
whole host of people over over the
course of a few days you know the the
accusation was of like oh she's she
loves
dictators it's a sad State of Affairs
when our some of the most influential
voices in our country will label someone
a uh a lover or supporter of dictators
simply because you're saying hey we
shouldn't be going to war there is way
and and I'm not alone in this you know
people who were against the war in Iraq
were L were given similar uh
labels um until it became you know
popular in our politics to have been
against the Iraq War we see the same
thing now with people like Tucker myself
and others who are saying um we should
not be waging this proxy war against
Russia via Ukraine and using the
Ukrainian people's lives in this war
well now all of a sudden you're a Putin
lover a Putin puppet or or whatever you
know the traitor treason all all of
these accusations that are used
ultimately by people who are not
interested in having a substantive
conversation about the truth about
looking at these these wars and
conflicts you know with a comprehensive
view on on exactly all the Dynamics that
are that are at play and and that's what
I found when I came back I I went
looking for went to Syria looking
forward to coming back and shedding
light on uh different perspectives
experiences and stories that I found
that would give people a more broad
understanding of of what was happening
in that country and what I found was
there was Zero interest in uh the
mainstream Media or in Congress in
hearing any other perspective other than
their own which was we need to launch
this regime change War through the use
of arming and equipping known terrorists
within Syria to overthrow the regime
without any idea uh without them stating
any uh realistic idea of who would take
control once Assad was
overthrown but the reality actually
being that no matter which opposition
group they might try to prop up they
would not have the power to withstand
the terrorist groups whose stated goal
it was to go and take over power uh from
Assad they had no interest in in trying
to gain true understanding and it it was
very disheartening it was very
disheartening and and a big lesson
learned about where where their
interests really uh were focused yeah
it's a
simplistic narrative template that's fit
into every single
situation um a lot of stuff is not
talked about in the Russia Ukraine war
one of the things that's not talked
about is okay so Putin is overthrown
then who do you think will come into
Power exactly one of the things I talk
about with arist stoich is that
Putin and he gets criticized for this
that Putin out of all the people that
might take power is the most liberal is
the most uh
dovish in fact every indication shows
that he really hates this war MH and and
so everybody that will step in if he
steps down or if he is overthrown is
just going to accelerate this this war
and the expansionism and the The Thirst
for Empire and all that kind of stuff
that the the US military industrial
complex will feed into so you have to
think about what the future holds and
what the different Power Players are and
what uh the level of corruption there is
and sort of the sort of the realistic
view of the situation versus the
idealistic view of the situation just on
that note real quick I think that was
exposed in broad daylight when
it appeared that you know the the former
head of the Vagner group was about to
try to to launch a coup and how that was
so celebrated even on uh you know like
MSNBC and Rachel mat and others touting
that this was somehow going to be a
great thing without looking at you know
who is this guy really what has he been
doing in different countries around the
world and what what would be his uh kind
of ruling philosophy and how that would
how that would differ or benefit
American interests or the interest of
security uh and peace but also the
interest of Ukraine and Russia and
Humanity overall just the flourishing of
Nations which is great for everybody in
collaborations with Nations I agree
friendly competition you know one of the
things I love about the 20th century is
the friendly sometimes not so friendly
competition between the Soviet Union and
the United States in in space in the
Space Race that's created something
incredible engineering and scientific
breakthroughs and all of this and also
made people dream about like reaching
out to the stars and yeah War destroys
all of that or damages it hopefully just
damages it hopefully it will the Phoenix
will rise
again uh well let me ask you about the
criticism you've mentioned uh of this
probably the most common criticism of
you that you love
Putin so just to linger on it what's
what do you think is the foundation of
this criticism well I'll tell you when
it
began you know I had my first day in
Congress uh was January 3rd 2013 I
believe it was the 3rd fourth fifth
somewhere around there and my last day
was January 3rd
2021 um I had been given my experience
of of serving as a soldier in in the
Middle East
and the motivation that that really
drove me to run for Congress in the
first place I served on the Foreign
Affairs committee and the armed services
committee for almost eight years the
eight years that I was there uh with my
drive and motivation to to actually be
in a position to challenge the influence
of the military industrial complex to
try to prevent us from needlessly going
to
war and so you know the likes of Hillary
Clinton and the cabal of war mongers in
Washington they weren't fans of of mine
to say the least I can't say it was a
total surprise but it was disheartening
nonetheless that the very day that I
announced my candidacy uh that I was
running for president which was in
February
2019 as I the hour that the hour that I
walked up onto that stage to announce my
candidacy it was in Hawaii and I gave my
announcement speech NBC News published a
hit piece that planted the seeds of
Suspicion in voters Minds that somehow I
was a darling of Putin and Russia and
and whatever it was baseless all of it
baseless and that that
continued um like a a steady drum beat
throughout my
candidacy but that really was escalated
when in a podcast with David Axel Rod
Hillary Clinton said oh well the
Russians are grooming
her and uh this is not um
[Music]
I mean this this came from a very
influential person yeah she was the
former Secretary of State former US
senator former first lady someone
who wielded and continues to wield a lot
of power in the Democratic party and
amongst
voters and that that took it to a whole
new level what is the basis for this
nothing it is it is a tired yet
Dependable Playbook that is used not
only by people like Hillary Clinton but
also people like Mitt Romney and others
to try to smear
discredit and destroy the reputations of
people who have the audacity to uh
question their objectives as they call
for one war or another uh or have the
the audacity to say that this is not in
the best interest of peace or in our
country and our our national security
they keep going back to this Playbook as
they do today because again they're not
willing to debate the substance of one
position versus another which is what we
should have if people feel so strongly
that we should be going and waging this
war that war okay great go make your
case to the American people go stand on
the floor of the United States house and
actually have this debate allow those
who are saying no this is not a good
idea to also stand fre and make that
argument instead they they resort to uh
the kind of name calling that tells
voters hey you can't trust this person
or anything that they say uh we myself
and some of my other colleagues got the
same treatment when we tried to pass
legislation in Congress that would have
taken out Provisions from the Patriot
Act that are most egregiously violating
our fourth amendment rights and civil
liberties uh authorities that have allow
our government to illegally surveil
Americans without a warrant and as we
did
so we called traitors we were called uh
we had other members of Congress on the
house floor saying that if you pass this
legislation you will be responsible for
another 911 style attack on our
soil um these are all distraction
tactics to to try to divert our
attention away from what's actually
happening and instead just tell voters
hey you can't you can't trust these
people obviously this has happened to
Trump it's happened to Bobby Kennedy
it's happened to people like Rand Paul
and others there was a small group but a
growing number um at least I'm on the
Republican side at this point people who
are are actually willing to stand up and
um and challenge the military industrial
complex challenge the warmongers in both
parties well people on the left have
challenged the the warmongers as well
throughout the the
the last few decades less so recently I
agree with you but less so recently and
this is one of the reasons why I left
the Democratic party um one of the
foremost reasons uh I I devote uh an
entire chapter to this issue um in my
book uh for love of country what leave
the Democrat Party behind going into the
the the detail of some of the things
we've talked about about my own
experiences about what I have learned
along the way but also how you know even
in the last year two years um certainly
under this Administration people who I
worked with in Congress who were
Democrats Dependable voices for civil
liberties Dependable
voices speaking out against the insanity
of people who wanted to wage war for the
sake of
War
um they're largely silent now and
unfortunately within the Dem Democratic
party in Washington there is no room for
debate that if you challenge the Biden
administration's position on foreign
policy you you're going to get you're
going to hear about it and um what we
have seen is that that's exactly what's
happened and people have retracted
statements or just Fallen silent or
whatever the case may be this debate
that should be existent within both
parties on the Democrat side
unfortunately
um it just doesn't exist anymore there
seems to be some kind of mass hysteria
over the war in Ukraine it was strange
to uh to watch that the Nuance aspect of
the
discussion was lost very quickly it was
uh Putin bad right it was a war between
good and evil right and in that if you
bring up any kind of nuance discussion
of like how do we actually achieve peace
in the
situation you're immediately put on the
side of evil yeah which is pretty sick
when you think about it I mean it's you
know the cynical view is of course it's
the uh the military industrial complex
machine the the war profiteers just
driving this kind of conversation yeah
you know I hope that's not I hope they
don't have that much power I hope they
just have incentives and they push
people and they kind of use People's
Natural desire to divide the world into
to Good and Evil and fight for the side
of good uh you know people
just uh have a natural proclivity for
that and that's a good thing that we
want to fight for the side of good but
then that gets captured and manipulated
yeah yes I admire your your
hopefulness I am I am hopeful also um
because of the
goodness in people and the naturally
compassionate nature of people
um however I will tell you from
firsthand experience that what we talk
about is the National Security State and
the military industrial
complex um this cabal of war mongers
that extends not only within government
but outside of
government um extends to many powerful
media Outlets um they are incredibly
powerful and don't have any qualms at
destroying those who try to get in the
way of their power and they've got a lot
of
tools they've got a lot of tools to do
that which I which I I think is why
President Eisenhower chose to include
this in his farewell address as a
warning because the
only recourse the only real power that
has the ability to destroy them and
stand up against them is a free people
living in a free Society
exercising the rights that we have
enshrined in the Constitution and Bill
of
Rights I just talked to any Jacobs and
she wrote a book on nuclear war a
scenario of how a nuclear war will
happen second by second minute by minute
I apologize if it happens how it would
happen it's terrifying yeah it it's
terrifying how easy it is to start that
one person can start it first of all and
then there's no way to stop it even
potentially with tactical nuclear
weapons that it would it just the the
Machinery of it how clueless everybody
is combined with the Machinery of it
it's just impossible to stop and it just
between rushing that the United States
especially and then all of a sudden you
have nuclear winter and 5 billion people
are dead yeah uh and they they die
through just essentially torture uh
slowly how do we avoid that how do we
avoid a nuclear war how do we that's
something that you talk about and think
about how do we avoid this kind of
escalation of a hot
War I think the most essential thing
first of all
is understanding exactly what you have
just
detailed we are in this very strange and
absurd time where we have Talking Heads
and so-called pundits on TV we have
politicians we have people who are
talking about a nuclear war as though it
is a war that can be won period and a
war that um can be
waged somehow without that risk of
escalation to the point of destruction
of human
civilization and and so they talk about
this as though it's just another war and
especially as they talk about the use of
tactical nuclear weapons oh well this is
just this is small and we think it'll
send a message without actually
escalating uh to the point
where we are dealing with with the kind
of Destruction uh that we witnessed uh
in World War
II uh that's a dangerous thing when it
becomes like normalized as you know well
we've got this new missile that'll go
and it's targeted and it's strategic and
it'll only harm this quote unquote
military Target uh Ronald Reagan was
100% correct when he said you know a
nuclear war cannot be won and should
never be waged it was true then and it's
true now no matter how much these guys
who are producing these weapons or those
who are benefiting from that industry
try to tell us oh no it'll it'll never
happen um so to me that that's that's an
important first first step to to
continue to inform and educate and sound
the alarms to people don't don't buy
this crap because it's not true and I I
look forward to listening to to your
podcast but the PSA that was put out by
New York City's emergency management
office about what to do in the event of
a nuclear attack you would find it funny
if it wasn't so deeply disturbing how
they created did this public service
announcement they distributed it
everywhere across the city on the
internet I think it was on the radio
where you had a woman who appeared to be
um an actor coming in and saying hey um
in the event of when the big one
hits here's what you should do focus on
doing these three things and I'm
paraphrasing but I encourage you to to
watch it I'm paraphrasing but she
said get inside
stay inside and stay
tuned that that was it and you know get
inside go away from the windows stay
inside don't go outside until you get
the all clear and stay tuned follow our
account on Instagram right and Twitter
and at the very end of of this this
short
PSA she said uh her her closing words
were weave we've got this mhm and it was
so disturbing in that it was so
completely out of touch with
reality um it creates this kind of false
sense of security that okay well it's
kind of like here's what you do when a
tornado hits or when a big storm hits
and and categorizing the big one a
nuclear attack within that same kind of
preparedness that you would want people
to have in the event of of a natural a
natural disaster of some
sort uh and and it is reflective of the
carelessness with which people in our
government um that careless attitude
that people in our government have
towards nuclear war and a nuclear attack
even as they set us up for
failure in pushing us to the closer and
closer to the brink of a nuclear war
occurring whether it be an intentional
attack or as we saw during the last Cold
War one
that could be launched
unintentionally uh we you know how many
near misses were there uh during during
the last Cold War uh I saw this
documentary called the man who saved the
world and it was some like
midlevel officer who happened to be on
duty and who didn't do what he was told
in in uh launching the the nuclear
missiles because of what they thought
was an incoming attack and I it turned
out to be a complete mistake or misread
on the radar but that's what we're
facing but by the way there's so many
things to say there but one of the
things that an Annie Jacobson details is
just how organized the Machinery of all
this is where the humans involved don't
have to think they just follow orders
there's a very clear set of steps you
take and there there's very few places
where you can inject your humanity and
be like wait a minute what's the big
picture of this the only
person that can think is the president
of the United States the president of
United States gets six minutes after the
warning the early warning system
says whether it's false or not says that
there we believe that there's been a
nuclear uh weapon launched you have six
minutes before you can make the decision
of launch back
initiate and to me that's what I'm uh
voting based on right in the current
situation you really have to see that as
one of the most important aspects I
agree of the United States president is
who do you trust in those six minutes to
sit
there and I'm not really sure looking at
Biden and
Trump
boy I don't know but I do know that I
would like somebody somebody who's
thinking independently and not part of
the
Machinery of
warmongers that that's really I mean
it's I don't want to make it sound
cynical or dramatic but sometimes in
such scary situations in such dramatic
situations you kind of follow the
momentum yes when the right thing to do
the right thing for a leader to do is
to step back and look of all human
history yeah and and don't and ignore
all the people in the room that are like
saying stuff because most likely what
they're going to be saying is war Monger
type of things yes that's one of the the
things why I also get criticized for I
still think zalin is a hero for staying
in Kiev everybody was telling him to
flee it was all the information was
telling basically saying this the the
the world's second biggest military is
like
coming at Kiev it's just dumb on all
fronts to stay in Kiev but that's what a
great leader does is ignores everybody
and stays yeah screw it I'm going to die
for my country I'm going to die as a
leader and that's the right thing for a
leaders to do it's sad
that I mean that to me that's what we
should expect of our leaders yes is
exactly that and it's sad that that uh
having a leader in that position I
fulfill their responsibility and the
oath that they take is seen as a heroic
act when we should like that's that
that's your job that's what we elect our
leaders uh to do and yet so many so many
have failed but to your to your point
um it's not cynical at all to to know
that in those rooms especially in these
moments of Crisis unfortunately there
are the predominant prevailing opinion
um of this warmongering establishment
that's not specific to one party is the
knee-jerk reaction which is to go to war
or to execute an act of
War um and and this is this
is you know one of the biggest costs of
this
establishment um destroying the
reputations of and smearing and trying
to cancel and censor those who are
voices of peace or just those who take a
contrarian position and say well hey why
don't we just pause for a moment and
actually think this through why don't we
talk through what happens if we take
this course of action what happens if we
go down a different path let's actually
be thoughtful about uh what our options
are for a b and c and then make the
decision in a thoughtful manner based on
that even even advocating for that is
seen as as a kind of heresy in in the
warmongering establishment in Washington
and the cost of this um the cost of of
their retaliation against those who are
reasonable voices who look at the world
as it is not some fantasy that they wish
existed is in those rooms during those
critical moments people will even if
they know in their heart or their mind
that this could end really
badly they their instinct is to self-
censor and not speak up because they
don't want to experience the Wrath and
eye whether whether it be coming from
fourstar generals or you know the
secretaries of state or defense or these
high ranking people in positions of
power and influence they don't want to
be the one guy in the room who's just
like uh Hey guys let's just take a
breath and actually think this through
what will happen not just in the
immediate response of this action that
you're advocating for but what are all
of the other people uh other actors
stakeholders in the world how will they
respond and then how will we respond to
them how will they respond to us
actually go through this exercise of in
the military this this is commonly
referred to as you know what are the
second third fourth order of effects
that will occur as a result of pursuing
a specific course of action it's it's
weird how difficult it is to be that
that person in the room it requires
courage yeah but which is sad but it
requires courage but why why why does it
require like even just to ask okay we've
been in in Afghanistan and Iraq for this
number of years what's the exit plan
right just bring that up like every day
at a meeting yeah like what what's the
Exit Plan it's it's strange that that
gets criticized well war in Iraq and so
on but I just remember there was this
pressure you can't quite criticize or
like ask dumb questi