Kind: captions
Language: en
for me cooking is an art what's your
favorite ingredient to cook with there
isn't one it's more like when there is
one it really is one you know like
there's Peaches on the on the cover of
this cookbook those peaches those were
in August Colorado peaches it just
doesn't get any better than that on that
day at that moment that was the best
that was the but that only lasts for a
week and then they don't taste so great
yeah but damn they so good in that
moment and you just can't stop wanting
to use that
ingredient the following is a
conversation with Kimbo musk a longtime
entrepreneur and Chef and author of a
new cookbook called the kitchen Cookbook
cooking for your community you should
check it out it is in fact the first
cookbook I've ever owned I've already
made stuff from it and it's delicious
this is Alex fredman podcast to support
it please check out our sponsors in the
description and now dear friends here's
Kimble
musk growing up in South Africa you said
it was a violent place what are some
formative moments that you remember from
that time South Africa was so I grew up
in uh par South Africa but more
specifically the fall of a paride so it
was was the 80 I was a teenager in the
80s and uh our community would would
um part of our social life frankly was
the anti- aparte protests and to go
be with white people black people kind
of mix mixing it all
together the most formative experiences
frankly how much I appreciate a place
like America where we have value for
human
life so is that was a country where
human life was not valued it was
a it's a weird thing to come from that
to he where where we we take it so
seriously if someone dies in a war or
something like that
and um we just didn't take it seriously
in South Africa people died but people
were killed I saw someone killed in
front of
me um with uh was getting off a train
and it's a very violent train known
known for violence we were stupid kids
we didn't really listen to our parents
we went on this train and uh the doors
opened and I had people trying to get
off the train and in front of me two
black people one black guy just stabed
this knife in the side of this other
black guy's head and you're like what
the fuck and you just I'm I got to get
off the train how old were you at this
time proba 16 or 17 and I got to get off
the train and everyone is trying to get
me to get off because you know they're
all behind me so I step off and I step
into the pool of blood one foot and then
I just walk from for about 100 Paces
while the stickiness of the blood just
kind of for my sneakers just on one foot
just like leaves a footprint behind me
and you just walk on you just walk on
did the others as everyone walked on
that's an interesting point you make
underlying the violence is a kind
of philosophy that human life is
disposable the individual life is
disposable I mean that underlies many
ideologies you know I grew up in the
Soviet Union the value of human life was
lower there than in the United States
the value of the individual in the
United States is really high it's
probably an index you can put together
like yeah right
exactly peration that that's a really
interesting way to put it because
violence is much easier on a mass scale
suffering causing suffering on a mass
scale is much easier when you don't
value the human life I've heard this
before where which I think I agree with
is when someone someone is killed
someone is someone's taken from our
lives the the vacuum that it creates the
social vacuum is extraordinarily painful
and and it truly is true I mean if
someone in my community passes away it's
very very sad for me and when you go to
a place where where you live grow up in
a place where where that human life is
not valued there's there's something
about the there's a little bit littleit
less of the social vacuum created
because everyone is kind of expecting
everyone to potentially be taken out at
any moment um but then there's also a
beauty to it because there's a much more
of a celebr
celebratory element when we my my cousin
Russ and I we again we were stupid kids
we shouldn't be doing this but we go
into the townships where all a lot of
the violence would be happening and we
really didn't see most of the violence
there it was in in these more protests
and and so forth but but the the there's
a joy that also comes from lower value
of human life there's a real Joy like
everyone is like well I mean it's
beautiful it's we we have dinner with
black friends you know friends with
their family we were still pretty young
and um and there was just a real joy to
it when you accept mortality yeah you
can really enjoy life you can really
enjoy I mean I think there's actually
quite a nice inside I I've never really
put it that way but I I think that's
right actually I think you you just
chill out a bit take things a little
less seriously cuz life does end for
everybody it does right and if you just
head on accept that fact yeah you can
just enjoy every single moment and let
go of this attachment uh and just enjoy
the moment it's a real I do love that we
will live longer and so forth but we
should live longer with a with the goal
of joy and the goal of happiness and
peace um not uh some some form of misery
that you choose to attach yourself to
maximize Joy maximize Joy that's right
there's a story that Walter isacson
writes about
where Elon got beat up pretty bad and
you were there and then you also had to
watch your dad yell at Elon for an hour
calling him worthless all those kinds of
things uh you said it was the worst
memory of your life what do you make of
such cruelty what do you remember from
that
time I mean it was
horrible I think you know coming back to
the point of low value of human life
they tried to kill him it wasn't um
wasn't it was no holding back so I just
watched
someone it wasn't just one but but there
was a main person and then there was a
few others that that piled in they they
just uh they tried to kill him in front
of me and I was we were eating
sandwiches on a on a staircase at at the
school out in outdoor staircase and um
uh I just had to I they they were not
coming after me and then I just had to
watch and I couldn't help it was one of
the saddest most difficult
um experiences it just was it's just
awful just like that life can end yeah
it could have been
you yeah I think uh uh so I've had I've
had a life life a near near-death
experience where I where I almost died I
went I was in
2010 and I think I think that and I I
broke my neck and I go to that story in
a moment but this was this was different
this was a this was this comes back to
the low value of human life part where
uh if someone had killed my brother if
that person had beat him to death which
which he was trying to do
um it life would have gone on you know
is that that's like an insane thought in
an American maybe in some tough
neighborhoods but for the most part it's
a it's another
thing yeah the brutality of that the the
mundan of the brutality
yeah it makes you think of all the
places in the world that that's
happening exactly and all the beautiful
people that just disappear I always say
to people who who have an opinion about
America that you know this is a really
bad country or or whatever
and I say look please go try another
country before you say that not to say
that America can't get better but please
go try another country because not
having that
perspective or having a perspective that
that um uh I don't know that could chip
on their shoulder about the country that
they're
in okay go go try another country and
then come back and tell me and pick any
country it doesn't have to be um uh you
doesn't have to be some you know very
violent country you could pick any
country and and and you just realize
that actually the the world doesn't
think the same way that America thinks
and you'll you're going to just learn a
perspective that I think uh gives you a
better way to critique um where we live
in America yeah it's humbling you said
that your dad was a roller coaster of
affection and then verbal abuse Walter
Isaacson quotes Barack Obama who said
someone once said that every man is
trying to live up to to his father's
expectations or makeup for his father's
mistakes and I suppose that may explain
my particular malady uh it's part of
that ring true for you what I thought
you were going to say was thought you
were going to end the sentence with live
up to my father's expectations MH that's
what most people say but then you said
the second part which is make up for his
mistakes MH and I think that's actually
that one is that one Rings true for me
um he was really is still Al but I don't
connect I'm not connected to him but
he's very
um uh he tght he taught me the phrase I
used to have was he taught me what not
to do so I still actually learned a
lot what what kind of human not to be
what kind of actions not to take and so
that kind of closer to living up to his
mistakes but it's but um my father is
such a train wreck that it's not really
mistakes it's like intentional actions
of what not to do okay don't do
that but there's still the trauma of
that you know it has an effect on the
human psychology and can permeate their
time so it has probably
complex uh indirect effects on who you
are the good and the bad there's a um
critique that my friends give me which
is when they're talking to me I kind of
just Drift Away okay just uh I'm still
looking at them still nodding might even
respond to their to their to them in
their conversation but I'm actually not
there and and I I've realized that
actually that grew up because my father
would just
verbal abuse is one way to say it is
abuse but it's more just verbal diarrhea
for for hours and constantly saying do
you understand like he wants to make
sure that I'm paying attention so I I
trained myself to look like I'm paying
attention but I'm not to disappear to
some place disappear to some place
wherever that is yeah and um and I do I
do that less and less over time but I
but that path has been paved somewhere
in your mind at childhood so it it could
be easy to walk down
it you and Elon were close growing up
you're still
close what did you learn from each other
how did you compliment each other yeah I
think we are we a good compliment um my
I'll talk talk for myself first my my my
strength is definitely on the social
side I love I love the Gathering
Place and I love putting people together
in person and I love to have vibrant
debates and conversations I've been
doing that forever and including
throughing fun parties and stuff where
where I bring people together and I
really kind of want people to have fun
and be but be vulnerable in a in a in a
not just like silly partying just but
actually like let's all connect
definition for me of a good party is
people laugh and
cry like I want to people I want to have
people have have an emotional connection
um I go to Bernie man every year and
that is there's no question you will cry
at some point during Bernie man no Small
Talk No small talk yes exactly no small
talk you're totally right on like most
parties not parties but most events you
go to our like clubs these sort of
nightclubs yeah and I never go to those
and my my joke is it's why would I want
to go to a place where I pay to shout
small talk in the
dark good line what it feels like I the
only reason I enjoy those places is the
full absurdity of exactly that right
it's totally ABS what what are we doing
what is this what is this like but I
have um so my compliment for my brother
was just bringing joy and social
connection and he's truly he's an he's
an engineering genius
I've worked with him forever and we do
compliment each other you just came out
with a cookbook by the way thank you for
giving me my first cookbook I feel legit
I love first cookbook I'm going to keep
it keep it on the counter and it's going
to give me legitimacy when anyone comes
over Hey listen I'm basically a chef now
that's right exactly uh when did you
first fall in love with cooking I
started cooking when I was 11 years old
um my mom uh is just she's she's
wonderful but she she's self- admittedly
a a a bad cook but but at the time it
was a it was and I think anyone with
kids goes through this there your kids
just want like something that spaghetti
bones or a burger or something and my
mom would do brown bread plain yogurt
and boiled squash you know like the
absolute most disgusting things that a
child could imagine eating and so I I
said can I cook and she said yeah if you
want to cook no problem so I went to the
grocery store and I I back in those
there's a butcher separate to the
grocery store and went to the Butcher
and I said you know what can I cook and
he P pulled out a chicken and he said
this is uh this is the easiest recipe
for you just put it on a pan in an oven
a hot oven cuz back then the ovens
weren't necessarily like 400° or 450 or
whatever and put it in a hot oven for 1
hour and enjoy that was it and uh so I I
went home and uh actually I also brought
some french fries I'll tell you that as
well so I I'm I'm I'm a kid of course I
went french fries so I the roast chicken
with french fries and the chicken came
out and it was just fantastic it was
absolutely fantastic that's incredible
by the way yeah you didn't screw it up
the first time first of I think that's
also kicks off the magic like you if you
screw it up and you're like oh maybe
this is not for me so for me it really
did did kick it off he started he
started out on a high no yeah right
exactly but I but I tell the French FR
part which was a disaster so I cooked
the french fries but I didn't heat the
oil first so I just put the potatoes in
the oil and I waited for it to heat up
and um I just was throwing up later that
night you can't your body can't ingest
that much cuz it sucks the oils in oh oh
and so that was a disaster but but at
the time it tasted good the
M the the the real magic which I also
found was one wonderful was uh when I
cooked you know my brother my sister my
mom all very very busy very intense
people would sit
down and we would have a meal together
and I was like wow this is a powerful
it's a very powerful thing that I've now
got where in no other way could I have
that connection with my family I mean
obviously we stay connected we're very
close Etc but in no other way can we sit
down and just talk about things or talk
about whatever is on our mind or just to
just not even talk just to just to be in
in at the table together and I've done
that now we through my whole life my
kids um still for my family uh and we
will do gratitudes at the beginning of
our meal and it's just I think the what
kept me cooking what made my love of
cooking so great was was actually the
fact that we would sit down together and
be be present with each other and I'm
also just also hard with that too so I I
also get to be present what is that
about food that like brings people
together and not just together but like
really together where you're like paying
attention right like what is that what
what is why is it food like what else
does that sometimes maybe alcohol can do
that which is a kind of food I guess
yeah but I think alcohol is different
because you use the standing when you're
doing alcohol so you're you're like
you're socializing but it's kind you
you're going to stay more in the small
talk Zone yeah right whereas if you sit
down yeah and I I see this in my
restaurant in the kitchen in Boulder
where we we have every Viewpoint or we
go to Denver every Viewpoint in Chicago
every Viewpoint and um the physical
presence of someone being with right
there uh is people are just they're just
they're just very different absolutely
different to what they are online I
think we all know the difference between
you know you send an email to someone
and they they they misunderstand email
mhm right that and you oh if I just
talked to the person it would have been
fine well this is now happening at scale
you know with all of these uh these
these uh what do you call trolling or
whatever and I I have I've I've sat at a
at the bar and I've had a hardcore Trump
supporter and I and I'm just I'm just
curious just like tell me what I'm not a
trump supporter but but like tell me
more and and and it actually draws the
conversation out because you're there
there for an hour or longer so there's
there's no rush to get the answer and I
think that's a big difference um I've
had uh one time where just a just a
couple months ago um I had someone I was
sitting at the community table we have a
community table in the restaurant and
and he was I didn't know him too well
but he asked me did I know that 9/11 was
a conspiracy and it didn't really happen
it didn't happen yeah M and I was like
huh so I I was at 911 I was I watched I
mean I watched the towers 4 I was like I
was there physically there so there like
no allegedly there's no doubt in my mind
okay but I but I but I didn't want to
but I didn't want to interrupt his his
what he had to say so I let him talk for
five minutes 6 minutes 7 minutes and
again you're there for a while so you're
not in a rush to to jump in and argue
and then I shed that I was there and I
think because I had been willing to
listen to
him he was willing to listen to
me and he I don't know if he changed his
mind certain he doesn't change my mind
but but it was actually a pretty cool
conversation to kind of get into each
other's mind well I think you connect on
a different level not on the level of
like the the conspiracy but on the level
of basic Humanity yes like that's what
you really connect on and then it's
almost becomes interesting and fun that
you can exchange ideas even crazy ideas
out there ideas and kind of play with
them like we humans are good at that
yeah exactly I like the I like the term
play with them because what what you're
not trying to do is shut the
conversation down you're also not trying
to talk down yeah exactly like you know
let me just be nice while I totally
disagree with this person um you can do
that for a few minutes you can't do that
for two hours and there's something like
about food that completely it I don't
know it must
be uh evolutionary that it it makes us
vulnerable in a way that even just
standing there for a long period of time
doesn't there's something
about you know like when the animals
gather to the water or whatever yeah
right like this kind of experience where
you're just like all right let's let's
just acknowledge together that we need
sustenance yeah and somehow that kind of
grounds us to like we're just we're just
a bunch of descendants of Apes here just
kind of like uh grateful to be alive
frankly and grateful to be consuming
this thing which keeps us alive and in
that context you can talk about all
kinds of stuff you can discuss Flat
Earth and enjoy absolutely absolutely in
fact um one of my favorite things to do
is uh is is you do a like a Jeffersonian
style dinner like let's say five or six
people sometimes you can people will
break off in individual conversations
that's actually when things break down
mhm so that's when you kind of go back
to small talk like oh I'm stuck next to
this guy I'm just going to do a small
talk what you need to do to really
create a great conversation is one
conversation at the table and that's
where uh you know there'll be some
some uh simple questions that I'll say
I'll say you know what's your middle
name and you'll be amazed at the stories
you get from that but it's it's about
creating vulnerability yeah so they're
like oh no one's ever asked me that
before so then they they become
vulnerable and then then something as
simple as what's the most fun thing
you've done recently and what is the
most fun thing you're looking forward to
mhm and I have gotten into with those
prom prompts I've gotten into hours long
discussions on God I've gotten into
hours long discussions on
love um I've gotten into hours long
discussions
on
anger it's actually amazing when people
are just asked the question like what's
the most fun thing you've done lately
well why would anger come up well
actually they they're in a vulnerable
place so it'll just kind of come out of
them so you get to see this you get to
see this at the kitchen and you said
Boulder Denver Chicago yeah and we're
going to open in Austin in Austin that's
what I saw when when in October is the
goal in October is the goal well I mean
speaking of characters and human beings
Austin is fascinating I've um I forget
how long ago me a couple months ago I
was just uh sitting at a bar and some
the two people were talking and they
were talking about Marxism and it turns
out that they're anarco Communists which
is a thing and I got into this convers
communist likes
drugs that's a good question
ask I think I know some of
those anyway they were beautiful people
I think they they're local from Austin I
don't you know I don't know the depth of
their uh personal experience of the
different kinds of communist like
systems but it was fascinating to listen
to them and get to know them and the the
humanity the weirdness like the
characters it's just I mean I love it
one of the reasons I really love Austin
I decided to uh be here is just the the
cliche thing of Keep Austin Weird I mean
there's a lot of weird I love it think I
think that um I've talken to a lot of
atin I have been here forever and I'm
like man you got to hold us accountable
we got to keep this place weird 100%
which makes the restaurant seem great
because CU you have all these characters
come in it's it's great so I look
forward to that but you were saying like
you get to see humans in real life
interact that's one of the beautiful
things over food in the book you write
Picasso once said the meaning of life is
to find your gift the purpose of life is
to give it away then you wrote that you
believe food is a gift we give ourselves
three times a day can you explain that
the gift yeah it's actually um I think
it's one of my most powerful life
lessons is is we we have to eat so it's
it's not it's not like you have a choice
you have to eat and so what I choose to
do is I'm choose to make it a gift to
myself each for each meal and most of
the time the best gift is with friends
with with family so we out to C cook
some scrambled eggs in the morning with
my daughter or we'll have dinner with
the our family to me it's a it's a gift
we give ourselves three times a day you
know at least but for the most part
three times a day let's make it a good
one what makes it a good one to you like
what what aspect what makes it a good
one well first definitely eating with
with people so that makes it a good one
so eating um eating as a in a restaurant
or it doesn't have to be my restaurant
where you have the energy of of people
around you energy of the Town people you
don't know creates a little bit of a
vibe that you you mentioned the The
Watering Hole analogy that animals like
sipping at the water but there's a
there's an to that because they're also
like looking around going is am I just
about to be
eaten so there's they're all in it
together but we need to have water but
there also a little bit of tension as
well in the background and I think
that's what restaurants do is a very
very subtle version of that you're in a
room with strangers yeah and you're yeah
you're a little cluster okay fine you
guys are connected and yeah but you're
in a room of strangers and it's just
something that adds that energy to to
the meal yeah you're a little bit
wondering like what does everyone else
think about our little cluster right
like are we too loud or or or just you
also just people are random so something
random could happen and also depending
on your personality if you're an
extrovert maybe you want to show off to
the other cluster exactly yeah
absolutely totally right I mean you know
look at the cowboy
hat I mean actually I'll take my hat off
when I want to have a quiet meal and I
can leave my head on when I'm so you're
aware of the L I'm aware of the effect
it has yeah absolutely everyone turns
right and then it's back to the watering
hole cuz when you wear a cowboy hat you
just might actually not yeah I'm I'm
like they're going to come they're going
to get me
first at noon I love it I I got to tell
the story so talk to the the the
craziness of being of being in the
restaurant world where you know you're
sitting at a table and anything can
happen in the restaurant so there's one
time like 15 years ago the um this guy
comes up to us and says we'd like to
propose to his wife his his girlfriend
um and and uh and so we we said okay
cool that we've done this
before make sure it's all set up 6 p.m.
kind of reservation so she shows up and
uh we we give her a glass of champagne
and just yeah we didn't obviously didn't
want to spoil the surprise we just doing
everything weend but then he doesn't
then he doesn't arrive and then we're
like oh man now we're like don't don't
leave can we get you another glass of
champ we're doing everything we can
because the guy was obviously Earnest
earlier we just is he in traffic or
whatever and uh out coming through the
back door of the restaurant which is
you're not allowed to come through the
back door of the restaurant a marching
band from the school of the University
like comes through the restaurant you
know fullon Brass Band and the whole
thing and um and you know he gets down
and he proposes and it's it's it's it's
it's it's beautiful sure but it's also
like chaos man this is chaos this is
insane and we would never have said yes
to this if he had actually told us what
he was going to do well sometimes in
life yeah you have to uh do it and
apologize you do it and apologize but
that talks to that kind of what's the
crazy thing that could happen in
a it's subtle but it's but it's still
there so in 2004 you opened the kitchen
it's an American uh beastro restaurant
what was it like what's it like running
a restaurant The Good the Bad and ugly
what's the what's the easy what's the
fun and what's the hard I think the
thing that I absolutely love about
running the restaurant not eating it I
but running the restaurant is the the
tangible
reaction from from people and uh um you
you know you also kind of know when you
screwed it up and you also know when you
got it right so even it's kind of a
weird way to say this but even if the
customer's
unhappy you know whether you got a right
or wrong it's not just about the food
you're making but it's about the
person's psychological State yeah and
you'll even you'll you'll do something
that you like you you know that that was
not well and their psychological state
is they're just in a very happy place
and they love it and you're like huh
interesting you know like that's not how
I would have reacted to that dish yeah
and then the other way around you like
no I got that right and that that person
is just like really unhappy today yeah
and it's so hard to read humans because
you have
to if you got to
write that can look a million different
ways depending on the emotional role
course that human is living through like
I've been some very low points and I've
gone to like a restaurant alone and just
sitting there and be truly happy with
just the Zen aspect of it and it was
just a great like a great stake or
something like this and maybe to uh
other people around me would look like
I'm very unhappy just because
I'm within my myself with your day yeah
within myself but I'm truly happy within
that struggle so yeah it's interesting
but you can kind of tell yeah you can
tell and um what you mentioned being at
the bar one of the most gift the the
most gifted bartenders really understand
that you know it's it it's goes beyond
um but what's also great about a
restaurant goes beyond the onetime
experience that you walk in and you have
that experience is the good bartenders
they they remember you yeah oh you were
in a few months ago and this this is
kind of your thing you might need a
little time M and um uh other other
people come and they want a conversation
yeah or other people come in and they're
going through a divorce and they just
want to be sad for a moment have a
scotch yeah and it's like it's amazing
what you learn in the in the rest of
world to just be connected to humanity
yeah what is that about bars that's a
different experience you said the the
table the the communal the table is when
you connect with people learn about each
other bars you can sometimes do that you
can talk left and right but but you have
the freedom to always break Break Free
free like you can say oh okay great I'm
going to go back to my meal it's it's
kind of like the it's like a it's a
friend you can turn on and off at any
time M because at the bartender knows
that they're trained like if you want
attention I'm going to give it to you if
you don't I'm going to I'm going to stay
away um if you if you want to be chatty
I'll be chatty you want to be completely
in your head I'll leave you in your head
but there's also strangers kind of next
to you that you kind of there's a
feeling with a bar that you're kind of
Alone Together yeah right and you can
reach out you can add some conversation
or you can choose not to and you can
exit quickly you can exit you can
exactly it's a really good exit so so
bars are are wonderful and I love going
to a bar by myself after
work I might might have a Squatch might
even not even have alcohol just have
something and I just uh and maybe have a
snack or something before dinner because
I'm going to go home and have dinner
with with the family and that that 20
minutes it's just a an amazing State
change from
daytime to nighttime where if I went
straight home I'm like still in my head
and I'm just trying to try to get
grounded and I'm just I'm not as
pleasant of a person so that's another
powerful use of a bar it's just like a
transition time well I mean it would be
remiss not to mention the other use of
the bar which is like when you're going
through some shit in life and you just
go I mean that's sort of it's the cliche
thing I've been some my
exactly the but like the bar makes The
Melancholy somehow like uh rich and
beautiful and like it's you feel heard
yeah in the silence yes yes you feel
heard you like like I said earlier like
the the people going through a divorce
they don't know where else to go yeah um
this is these are mostly men Sometimes
women will do it but mostly men will do
this and women have other ways of
processing it but they just they want a
place to be sad and a place where they
could
feel uh comfortable talking about it if
uh they W they're certainly not going to
go into too much detail but they just
want to say something yeah and the
bartender is there for them yeah you
don't know where to go you don't know
where to go exactly the bar the bar yeah
you're right like it for men especially
is a place to just go and just I don't
know what is that I mean be honest I
still do it myself where if I'm at home
and you know don't don't have a work
thing that I got to deal with and I
don't have kids and I don't have uh my
wife or a family
around um I I don't often cook for
myself I I I actually love going to a
bar by myself I have a glass of red wine
and I have you know usually don't have
starter appetizer I just have like a
main
meal and I just take in the energy of
the space was my restaurant or someone
else's restaurant just take in the
energy and it's so much so much better
than being home and but turning the TV
on no no no no no I I want to be out in
the restaurant I want to feel the energy
of the town uh the other thing that
restaurants teach me is the they're the
front lines of
of the economy or what the better word
for it it's like front front lines of
the energy of of of how things are going
oh like of a people's in general like it
doesn't I mean this part of town but it
could be the entire Society exactly so
you can you can go into a restaurant and
I'll use a simple example and the why is
the restaurant empty ah there's a
football game going on and that's they
PE there's such a large number of people
want to watch that game that the
restaurant is quiet or it might be like
another like World Series or something
and you're like wow that's so
interesting you can actually watch in
America of course American Humanity you
can watch them move in their pattern pns
just by being in the restaurant yeah
yeah and then another time you might be
in a restaurant and it's just jamming
and it's a Monday night and you're like
what what what is the energy that
created this on a Monday night and maybe
even on a cold February Monday night
what is it and sometimes you can't find
out but you can feel it and it's it's
like it's my it's my front lines of
humanity that I that I also just really
love about the restaurants yeah it could
be empty could be full empty bars
there's some magic to those too yeah you
could still feel that energy I don't
know I actually prefer empty bars than
than full ones just you and the
bartender I mean some of my greatest
experience is just the quiet bar with
just me and the bartender and they're
doing their thing and they've seen so
many I've almost like through osmosis
somehow feel the stories that that
bartender has seen has felt has heard
yeah and all that kind of stuff I mean
that it's it's not to be sort of
uh like spiritual about it but it seems
like it's in the walls or something like
there's the history is felt and some of
these bars are actually very old and and
it's wonderful like there many in Europe
like this but there's a couple in New
York City few hundred years old and you
you and they're still operating non-stop
for that long and man you feel it yeah
let me ask you some questions about
ingredients what's your favorite
ingredient to cook with for me cooking
is an art right so be like asking me
what's my favorite favorite paint color
that use it doesn't it's not that it
there it isn't like um there isn't one
it's more like when there is one it
really is one you know like there's
Peaches on the on the cover of this
cookbook those peaches that those were
in August Colorado
peaches it just doesn't get any better
than that on that day at that moment
that was the best that was the but that
only lasts for a week and then they
don't taste so great
yeah but damn they so good in that
moment and you just can't stop wanting
to use that ingredient they look really
good they are so good what's your
favorite uh fruit I'm I love veggies and
fruit what's your favorite fruit I love
a smoothie Bowl so I do sort of a
berries
raspberries uh but I but I use fruit
more in the form of a smoothie Bowl than
I eat fruit that often I like I like an
apple or banana but for most part I
prefer like the Blended not me I love
the way you casually set it like an
apple for me a good apple is pretty
great for me it's a problem I
think probably Cherry's number
one probably uh what are they called
granny smooth apples number two oh yeah
those are great but try when sometime
come to Colorado in August and when you
try those peaches it is
like heaven has arrived in your mouth it
is so ridiculously good but just for a
week in a just for a week you can't have
it all year long okay
uh what about veggies you wrote that
Chef Hugo that you worked with the
co-founded the kitchen with taught you
the power of a good vegetable yeah
what's the power of a good vegetable so
I trained in New York right as a French
chef but it wasn't very much ingredients
focused it wasn't very much uh sourcing
focused he came from the River Cafe in
London which was one of the N the ogs of
the farm to table and uh still going
strong today and he he taught me the the
value of getting to know farmers and
getting to know vegetables from that
farm versus vegetables from that farm
and they're actually different soil's a
little different way the way they grow
it a little different it's the opposite
of the industrial machine where
everything needs to look exactly the
same and um sometimes you'll get carrots
that are kind of ugly and deformed but
there's much sweeter than the carrots
you'd get for other purposes so you'd
make a carrot puree out of that and then
you take carrots that are that are more
typical in shape and size you might
roast roast them for uh for dinner so
the the it's the appreciation for uh
vegetables in general um I I probably
would say carrots is my favorite just
because I've us that was an example of
one where i' I've really had to learn
how to use the the the the different
types of carrots that come from around
from all of our farms and um it's fun
you know it's a fun ingredient if you
just went to Whole Foods or just went to
a grocery store and you just got exactly
the same carrot every time less fun but
go to a pharmers market and see what you
get and you'll you'll see they're quite
different yeah carrot for me is probably
number one I have uh rigorous detailed
rankings for fruit and veggies aming
we'll get into I'm just well I am the
kind of person that would have like a
spreadsheet for
that great but I'm mostly just making
fun of myself but I do love carrots uh I
wish they
weren't so full of carbs but yeah I'm
not I'm just not anti carbs you know I
think the anti carb yeah yeah I think
think they played a role you know like I
um have a great friend who's an amazing
doctor and um he did some tests for me
and everything and and turns out I have
a gluten allergy and I was like okay uh
so what that means is I shouldn't eat
gluten it's like yeah it's like okay but
I also have hay fever and that that
means I should not go out into nature MH
so I was like N I think I'm going to go
out into nature and maybe what I'll on
bread and pasta or like the true carbs
I'll I'll just have it when it's really
good mhm because when it's really good
it's really good and you don't want to
miss that most of the time okay find
some crummy bread whatever like I can
skip that part but I find all of these
diets are like no none of this or super
this super that I I I wonder if they're
just like um like a people are just
looking for something to hang on to but
these diets have been around forever and
if they work then we would know that
yeah I think one of the biggest problems
with
diets is it adds stress when you do have
that perfect bowl of pasta if you're if
you have categorized yourself as a low
carb eating person you might be very
stressed about enjoying this thing when
you should just let go let go this is
your cheat day or whatever yeah yeah and
I've heard that and actually I I I I
have friends who do that their cheat day
and I say to them I'm only going to hang
out with you on your cheat day because
that's when you're actually
yeah I I mean I I would say like for me
there's things that make me feel really
good but they're not rules they're not
uh they're they're like go-to
favorites speak like in terms of diet
and so on for example I've mostly been
eating once a day oh wow for for the
longest time but that's not a rule okay
like it's it's completely flexible and I
most have been eating very low carb okay
but you must be eating a lot of food in
that one meal yeah it's not you know
because it's usually a very sort of meat
heavy it's not like portions are not
that big so your body needs food yeah
but I need so you're talking about like
2,000 calories what you find out is like
that dinner is like the most social time
of the day yeah I mean I have kids in
the morning so if you have kids it's for
sure a morning experience but if you
don't then you're right yeah but like
you said I I deviate you know I'm more
afraid of missing the per
the perfect dessert the perfect
breakfast the perfect uh bowl of pasta
pizza all that kind of stuff and then I
don't think if it as a cheat day I think
it's um well if you're only eating one
meal a day you can eat whatever you like
well well like I I want to make clear
that it's not one meal a day always and
I'm like this very strict
thing uh it's you always have to be open
to the experience to the new experience
uh otherwise you do miss out just like
you said hey fever like I think if you
want to be really safe you should never
leave your home yes just w we learned
during Co if you wrap yourself in Cotton
wool in your basement yes you're you're
not going to die from covid you might
die from a lot of other things of just
pure misery yeah well you might live
forever we don't know but it certainly
doesn't maximize the joy of whatever
whatever makes life worth living it
doesn't maximize that yeah exactly you
wrote In the book that Anthony Bordain
was one of your Heroes M uh can you
speak to what inspired you uh about him
yeah he wrote a book called Kitchen
Confidential in the '90s I was in
cooking school at the time it was
so he romanticized the kit cooking in
the restaurant so well his writing is
great he kind of got me into like oh
that's cool I I want to do that that was
it was it was it was cool uh so I you
know got into cooking school got more
engaged in it and I and I was like this
had this fomo feeling of I wanted to
experience what it's like to be in in
the back when you cooking school you are
you are in the back had a restaurant we
would serve people but it's not the same
thing as actually being in a like a real
restaurant it's like you're in a
submarine with with you know your your
teammates and you got to win tonight
like it's a real it's a real energy and
so that that was a big inspiration I
followed him over there so sad that he
he he chose to in his life but I also
had met with him a few times not not
like one-on-one over dinner or anything
but just like met with him and and um I
just felt his love for for food and
truly just love for food he gave the
advice of Don't Be Afraid get excited
and cook with love yeah I've used that
phrase especially the cook with love one
I mean when you know one of the things
about which we talked about this earlier
where you get quick tangible feedback
from a customer when you're in the
restaurant um I know when I didn't put
love into that
dish I know when one of my line Cooks
did not put love into that part of the
dish I know when that expert person did
not put love into look you know double
checking the dish before putting it on
the table I I you just know and and cook
with love is uh when you do it for your
family oh actually especially when you
do it with for your family the food
isn't doesn't have to be perfect but
you're cooking with love that's why you
love scrambled eggs I do that it's
that's in the book Kimble scrambled eggs
yes you promised to make me scramble
legs I'm going to hold you to it that's
great uh a cooking school you mentioned
the French Culinary Institute I heard it
was a a bit of a rough experience in
parts are would call it it's it's not a
rough experience in that in a beautiful
way yeah yeah it's exactly it's not like
I'm a victim of it it's it's uh it's
rough in that they intentionally make it
rough so the the school costs the same
price as Harvard to go
to you show up you have to it's an
18-month program you are allowed to drop
out at any time you don't get your money
back 25 people
started six people
graduated and the people who graduated I
graduated but man it was there were
times where I'm like I I can't handle
this I mean I would literally say to to
to my friends oh I got to go to cooking
school I'm going to go get screamed at
for the next six or seven hours yeah and
I had this little French chef who was my
uh Nemesis does he still live in your
head somewhere he still lives in my head
exactly heally does he's like 5'2 or
something and uh and I remember him
screaming so much at me that this he's
like the short guy I'm 6'5 the spittle
would land on my face nice and I would
just have to sit there I stand there and
take it it was a very humbling
experience I did learn though that it
it's it's intentionally rough so I took
a little bit of the um edge off it one
day when that same Chef had come over to
me and said move over a little bit and I
moved over and he took my carrots
whatever and started just chopping
everything and like perfectly and then
he said okay now you just can come back
and then he went over to someone else it
started screaming at them saying that
look even Kimble can do this and you
can't do this and I was like this whole
thing's like a psych psycho game so it
did take the edge off when I realized
there was like the guy the guy was
intentionally trying to break you down
and they do this apparently in the Army
I've not been to the Army but they they
they need you to they need to break you
down everything you know is worthless so
that then we can teach you and you can
come out of it with at what with what
actually we want you to know Are there
specific technical lessons you remember
you learned from that sort of how to cut
carrots
or how to approach food how to prepare
food how to think about food how to
carry yourself in the kitchen you know
all of those things um I think that the
one of the most beautiful lessons was
actually scrambled eggs um so the
there's different layers of shfs so they
all master shfs they're all very
well-known people and everything but but
Alan sua was one of the chief like main
main guys and he just passed away Master
Chef and uh everything kind of stopped
when he would show up in the kitchen and
he would teach very few things and all
of the other chefs who would you know
the same ones that were screaming at us
just like it was like the Red Sea
partying like they have total respect
for this human and he can do whatever he
wants and the one of the things he
wanted wanted to teach was how do you
make an omelette a French omelette and
it's really fundamentally the same thing
it's a soft scrambled egg that you that
you fold and uh the love that he put
into the time with us and of course he's
a legend there were moments like that
where I'm like wow okay he he also he
also just like the other she didn't have
any concern berating anyone so he
berated our Master Chefs nice saying I
don't trust these people to teach you
how to make scrambled EGS so I'm going
to do it
instead what I mean can you speak to
that cuz you know a lot of people
hearing this would be like scrambled
eggs like why do you need to be a Master
Chef to to really make SCS it's a it's a
well first of all um for me and and it's
it's a it's a learning Journey
forever so so I make I make scramble
legs I mean almost made it 10 10,000
times or more whatever so it's like jro
Dreams of Sushi Kimble dreams of
scrambled egg pretty much okay so I will
um I will wake up and uh be held
accountable my by my kids to make
scramble this happens every morning and
um it's I I know all the steps muscle
memory level kind of steps how much
while I know it and then I'll cook it
and it's very meditative for me because
you have to focus so most scrambled eggs
soft scrambled eggs recipes are 10 15
minutes uh to get them to that that
perfect softness and the the the recipe
that I got from uh chef chef Alan was um
was something that you do in 90 seconds
MH but it requires Total Focus like if
you like look up for a second you're
going to miss you're going to miss the
the the perfect moment where you have to
stop and get those eggs out of the pan
because once the pan eggs will keep
cooking and so it's this meditation and
it's sometimes you hit it like perfectly
but most
times could have been a little softer
could have been a little firmer could
have been a little bit more salt could
have been a little more pepper um uh and
so so what's really fun about the
morning is my kids are kind of into it
so they're sort of like we we critique
the eggs yeah every morning do they have
a rating system we're back to the spr
it's more of a it's more like and again
it also come back to how people feel
right so like can be in a bad mood and
they can be grumpy like a Michelin star
system like what no no there not it's
more like oh yeah I uh I like my a
little more gooier or or yesterday it
was this way a little bit more salt a
little less less salt um salt is usually
the one that is because um uh not all
salts are are equal so if you are used
to working with a certain kind of salt
and then you're you just are forced for
some ran out of salt to use some use
some other salt you you actually don't
know how to use it you really you need
really want to have the same salt all
the time yeah you have a page on salt in
the book which is fascinating salt is
you got to get to know your salt you got
to you got to love your salt and you got
to use it over and over and over again
yeah and it will teach you uh how to use
that salt by you know your pallette will
tell you how salty you like things but
if you change it up and you mix up a
whole bunch of salt you've now
multiplied your learning path so for me
I my favorite salt is is uh kosal salt
and I like to use that all the time and
if uh if I ever change it I might
sprinkle a little bit of molden salt a
crunchy uh sort of a flaky salt but it's
more for for that at when you're
actually eating texture yeah it gives
you texture as well as salt exactly you
wouldn't use it on scrambled eggs but
the but if you switch out your salts
it's a different
weapon need to learn it you I like I
like how you know usually there's wine
connoisseurs you're saying you going
back to sort of farm to table when
you're talking about carrots in that
same rigor and Nuance you have to
consider the different Farms involved
for the carrots in that same way you
have to consider the different salts
yeah with like and also not even all
kosha salts are the same it's the
particular salt that you like get to
know it be get in a relationship with it
it's like great people learn so much how
they in terms of the uh the measurement
the proportion the the amount you put of
salt you put in are you doing that like
exactly or are you doing it by feel so
it's by feel and that's where you get
the relationship so in fact I have a in
the the book in The cookbook I have QR
codes that people can scan because uh
what I struggle with recipes is they
don't they don't teach technique right
they can they can describe the technique
but they don't teach the technique it's
it's a technique it's not a recipe and
so one of the one of the lessons is how
do you salt a steak mhm and the answer
is not here's a teaspoon and you do it
this way the answer is use kosher salt
so you can see with your eyes CU they're
little flakes how much salt is on your
steak and then taste cook it and then
taste it and know you think you need
more or you need it less okay now next
time put a little more on because you
can see it and it's about learning the
the the fact that you you want to be
able to see how much salt is on the
steak so that you can then train
yourself for the future of how much salt
you want to your steak Yeah but then the
steak and the salt kind of dance
together it depends on where the steak
came from true that's true all the
thickness of the steak that'll make a
difference but for the most part if you
learn if if you're able to see it versus
table salt for example just just just
disappears you just can't see what
you're putting on your steak you can't
really learn as a result I think you
talk about roast chickens where your
love of food be uh began what about
steak what's love a good steak so so
great so in in the in the scho in the
French school you add sauces and all
this kind of stuff and in Boulders when
you realize like there's a beauty to the
to the basic ingredient yeah like a good
um uh New York strip from a good Rancher
that that U you know the the there's a
lot of
uh discussion controversy on how how
cattle should be raised and we have a we
have a very uh different approach which
is we know how our Kettle are raised we
go to the farm we get to know the the
Rancher we and um sometimes you do want
to have them be finished on like they'll
be grass-fed for the most part but then
then there's some sort of cool recipe of
food you're giving them that will then
make them taste better um and sometimes
it it is actually pretty good to have
100% grass-fed I've had some amazing uh
ranches that that show me that the
flavor is all there for the average
person that you know might go to Whole
fuse or grocery store I think the
Simplicity of a of of a good
steak it's it it is important to get
good sourcing but also it's just it's
just it's just good what's your favorite
cut of meat it's New York strip probably
New York strip for me yeah newor strip
yeah I like the fact that it's lean but
if you want the fat you can dive into
that little strip of fat or you can
leave it alone because you you don't
want it that night um and it's a uh it's
also a great stake for or uh adding
something like if you want to you could
either do a a pepper sauce or you could
do a lot of ground pepper which gives it
a peppery kind it's not not sauce but
it's a peppery steak it's a really good
steak for like a a canvas for for other
things but the basic ingredients you're
playing with is salt and pepper and
just actually I will say there's another
one uh
garlic when you when you can one of this
is my favorite recipe for for a steak is
you you season it both Sid salt and
pepper you sauté it um in in a little
olive oil barely barely anything and um
you're getting a nice crisp like a
golden dark golden brown on both both
sides the other the other trick with
cooking a steak is don't touch it you
know just put one side when you're ready
to turn it turn it around don't touch
any other any other time but at the end
you take a dab of butter and you crush a
clove of garlic
you don't even chop it you just crush
the glove and you you put the two of
them in the in the pan and you just roll
the steak around in the garlic
butter I think that's the one bold move
Kim bold move what do you uh since
you're in Austin quite a bit
opening a restaurant here what do you
think about barbecue it's kind
of the the Texas way well I would say
there's an Austin way which is an Austin
which and and actually even Austin would
say there's a suburb of Austin
way I think that actually the the
adventure of food is wonderful um I
would absolutely say that that Austin is
is one of the great food uh cities of
America and barbecue is one of is one of
its gifts that that it gives the city
but but you go to one and the other and
you'll have a different approach and
that that's the part I love is where
there a real celebration of the Artisan
so um you might go to one and they have
a they have a style that they love and
they've been doing it for years and then
you'll go to another and they have a
style that they love and they've been
doing it for years and it's it's not
they're still barbecue but they're
actually different and it's really
beautiful to see that and that's I think
that's what that's that's what food
culture is like it just builds up over
time by people who love this style of
cooking well I especially love the
communal like how they structure
restaurants usually or I I don't even
want to call it a restaurant cuz it's a
it it doesn't feel like a restaurant it
feels like a Tavern or some sort like
Terry blacks is like that it's like yeah
they also have like paper towels get as
messy as you like and it's a whole roll
of paper towels they don't just give you
a napkin they know what you're getting
into yeah and it there's just wood
everywhere and it's kind of has this
feel like this place has been around
forever it's not changing I know it's
the 21st century with the internet and
all this kind of nonsense that you
people are building but really this is
all about same it's been the same for
Generations we're doing it the same that
kind of feel if you want to escape the
world in that way and then truly connect
with people one of the other things that
will happen in in a town like Austin is
there'll be a barbecue joint that is
just legendary right and then out of
that will come someone who wants to do
their own barbecue joint and they'll
take the learning from that barbecue
joint they'll open up a new one but it
won't be the same as the other barbec
you joined part of it is like dude like
don't just do the same thing do
something what what what do you have to
say but also part of it is if you're in
the world of food like as an art form
and you want to go open up another
barbecue joint you you you kind of want
to prove yourself like I deserve to have
a barbecue joint in this town I know
this is one of the Holy grills of
barbecue and and people will follow you
like they're following a musician or
they're following an artist and they are
excited to see what your version is M
and how well you can pull it off it's
like it's actually that's what I love
that's what I mean by like a a city with
a food culture that Austin has that
there's also like a legend to certain
places certain places are more than just
the food they create it's
like that could be a burden they have to
like live up to the leg legendary nature
of the name our restaurant in Boulder
the kitchen is 20 years old um we're
very well known very well
respected and and we do have to live up
to the name I think that our our
restaurant lives up to its name in it in
not just the food it's like you walk in
and you feel the restaurant and that
that is
also uh it's something we we've just
done naturally um the space is a 120y
old building used to be a brothel and
was bookstore like story history this
was a literally this was a um a mining
town right so back in
1800s this was built late 1800s um uh
that sort of Brussels Riv that was a
thing yeah and so there's an actual
tunnel under in the basement that goes
to the local hotel that uh would be used
for going back and forth between the
hotel and and rothel without people
knowing and the tunnel is now concreted
up but you can go about 20 30t into the
tunnel but you go into you go into the
space and it's actually an old space you
feel like it's been there forever yeah
in 2010 you had a life-threatening
accident uh that changed the way you see
life the world also the way you see food
and cooking uh can you tell me the story
of it yeah uh so 2010 I was 37 I had
opened the
restaurant uh in 2004 and I had loved
the restaurant world loved it but it I
didn't really want to grow a restaurant
company that wasn't my my goal and so I
got went back into technology and I had
uh I had gone from something that I
love to something that I
like for me it was like was like chewing
sawdust every day I just couldn't
believe that I had gone from that had
changed my life had gone back into
technology and now I do do work in
technology and I I I do love it but I
found a better relationship with it but
I was really really unhappy um from the
outside I was a sort of CEO of a hot
startup but from the inside I was just
just very unhappy and I um was in
Jackson Hall and I was doing these very
aggressive snowboard runs and I'm at the
time a pretty pretty good aggressive
snowboarder and I remember saying to
myself look I've got kids I need to
chill on this I'm next day was
Valentine's Day next day tomorrow is
Valentine's Day I'm just going to have a
nice day with the family and and my my
wife time and um we've been to a
children's run to do the inner tube run
and the tubes are small but everyone
uses the same tube so I'm 6'5 and uh my
kids are four years old and everyone
uses the same size tube that should have
been a message to me not not to get on
this thing but I went and got on it and
on the first run and I went down and
you're going super fast 35 miles an hour
and the tube hit the braking mats and it
stopped the little tube just stopped
where where it was it just threw
me I was my my head was uh facing
downhill so that's created the wrong
center of gravity so instead of breaking
it just through me I landed on my head
my head went into my chest like
compression into my chest down like that
I ruptured my spine at C6 and
C7
and in like the blink of a second I was
paralyze I was like
like like what you know just like
impossible
to impossible to comprehend and that
they take me put this they put this big
thing on my halo on my head and they
take me to the hospital which was more
of a medical clinic and I'm just like
what was going on here do you remember
your thoughts from the moment it
happened to like way to get to got to
the hospital I remember being so this is
a one of the things that actually the
doctor said caused the most damage was
um I was thrown from the tube and I and
I heard this big crunch sound in my
body and I knew that I was hurt but I
didn't feel any pain just Al that's
that's also like why wouldn't you feel
pain cuz you you don't paralyze you
don't feel pain and so and I'm face down
on the on the snow and the snow is
burning my face cuz you know you can't
you can't do that you need something and
I found a way to turn myself around so
that my face wouldn't be on the ground
but I knew I couldn't
move and um uh that they said actually
caused more damage than well obviously
the accident created the opening but
once once you move your body the blood
goes into the spinal column at a faster
rate and that that is what caused my
paralysis but I remember that and I um
I remember getting into the into the the
the
ambulance um did you think you were
going to die at that like in those
seconds minutes it was a different
feeling of death it was it's
more it was more of a what is going on
here like I just was it was more like I
can't make sense of what's going on it
was uh
uh it was there was a moment where I got
to the hospital and they they did this
MRI and the doctor comes up to me and
says look we've we've done this MRI and
uh so so I'm now now I'm in the hospital
and I'm like can't I can't move but I
also don't have feel any pain so I'm
like it's very confusing your body looks
like you can move it like look see I'm
moving my hand like it looks like you
can do that and then it just doesn't
move it there there's no there's no
there's no feed back Loop that it's not
moving you your brain even thinks it's
moving but it's not moving it's like the
worst like most terrifying thing so the
doctor says the way the way you broke
your neck was really at a Zer degree
angle that so rare but as a result there
is no twisting of the of the
spine we think that we can get the blood
out of your of your spinal column and
you should get uh some or maybe all of
your movement
back and um uh
I was like oh okay I think I'm going to
be fine I guess I'm going to be fine and
then I realized I had tears just
streaming down the side of my face and I
was like Whoa man I have no idea what is
going on so this kind of intense state
of
confusion I wonder if it's a weird
psychological defense mechanism of like
Tak taking you away from the obvious
possibility of death yeah it was a for
sure all the events all of the defenses
were up I don't know else to describe it
but there was there was denial yeah
there
was uh uh this there was this curiosity
of like why is there no
pain like that's that when they did
actually repair me and fix me it was 3
days later the pain
was Indescribable how much pain I was in
but there was no pain for 3
days this is like human body is
fascinating man
wow so they were able yeah so they did
the surgery but I had this I had this
very clear voice in my head that uh kind
of determined that it's God I'm not
religious but I don't know how else to
describe the voice and this voice is
very
clear you're going to work with kids in
food look okay where did that come from
I'm like Tech CEO I have a restaurant
should I and then we were working with
some kids in schools with like some you
know helping a local nonprofit and like
no you're just going to work on kids and
food U uh my good friend Antonio and my
brother were in the hospital and I was
like I'm going to work on kids and food
you know CU they're like he's crazy he's
lost his mind but but not not not that
they were already no one was arguing
with me but I was like I'm just going to
do that I need to say it out loud and I
remember resigning from my my job as CEO
from the
hospital
and um that was it it was it was just
clear it was a clear voice wasn't for a
moment wasn't like a flash of light or
anything it was probably two weeks of
clear voice of clarity Clarity exactly
Clarity and no monkey brain nothing no
monkey brain just Clarity so you're not
a religious person but you do call it
the voice of God who is that God do you
think like who is that that where where
did that come from well I've done iasa
and I've spoken to what they call mother
a which is another version of of
God it's a it's a divine
presence is maybe I think it's a better
way to say it I've also had this debate
in my head like maybe it's just me I'm
talking to me and it's my my uh
peaceful uh more Kinder more less caught
up in the emotion of the day P version
of Me Maybe it's me okay maybe it is but
it's there but who are you like how deep
does it go what what does you mean you
could be you know first of all like the
depth of what the human mind even is is
a a gigantic mystery Consciousness all
of it yeah like who are you it's like
yeah maybe it is you but then maybe in
order to build you we need to build the
universe and the entire like you are
actually a fundamentally a part of this
whole Human Society so the piece the
pieces of
humans that you've interacted with are
all within you and then maybe the
history of the humans that came before
also in there and maybe the entirety of
life on Earth is also in there and
whatever the the whatever brought life
about on Earth is in there somewhere so
that's all you yeah all of the the which
is really true evolution is it literally
is true that that that we all are the
photons from the sun came in part fish
we all came from all came from that I
think this is one you know so one of the
uh one of the things I do is meditate
and this was I've been meditating for
many many years and what way I meditate
is I I sit and I listen to my thoughts
and I simply just do that for 15 to 20
minutes and it just calms the calms the
nervous system and I I might breathe and
just be breathe through because it's
been a stressful day and it's just a
beautiful way to I kind of do it around
I remember I said I used to do a scatch
at at the bar after work now I go
meditate for instance it's a little less
a little bit better for my uh for my for
my for my health but um meditation I was
taught um was Sam Harris actually taught
me this uh was is not so much just about
watching your
thoughts but realizing that you're a
watcher you're actually a watcher you're
not just like who who is the person
watching that that's you actually your
thoughts are are floating through your
mind but you are the
Watcher and I was like Ah that's very
interesting okay so I'm going to learn
that I'm going to I'm going to be the
Watcher and what I learned was I'm
watching these thought go
by and there's a consistent other
presence and I'm like what is that
consistent other presence that's not a
thought that is not a it's not a not
something I can kind of let it float
away and it doesn't even want to float
away it isn't it's just it's just a
consistent other presence that I can
watch and
feel so you you are the Watcher watching
the feelings and thoughts but there's
also other presence next to you almost
yes yeah that's how I feel and it's a
beautiful presence it's not not a
presence that is trying to intervene
it's not a presence that is trying to
tell you what to do it's just a
beautiful presence and that might be the
the the thing part of the thing you met
when uh you took iasa I learned about
mother I where you have this experience
of talking to actually I would say the
closest thing to breaking my neck that
feeling was I can you go through that
experience cuz I'm actually traveling to
the Amazon jungle in a in a month I'll
probably do iasa for the first time okay
so I need a preview unofficial
instruction manual yeah sure so first of
all I think many many different ways to
do it right so and I have done I've done
many many different ways um there's a
very Western medicine approach where you
have uh doctors that uh look after you
during the day you know put an eye mask
on you're on on a futon and you're
really are in a western medicine setting
and it's a frankly for me has been the
most powerful experience I feel the most
comfortable because I'm part of western
medicine in my upbringing The Other
Extreme that they're kind of in between
would be very probably a Peruvian
ceremon where probably where we going to
go very much um uh
about you do it in a community you do it
with others and you you feel people go
through their pain and their
processing um so I I know I know the
whole gamut but the the thing that the
thing that I found most powerful about
it uh and profoundly powerful I would
say first of all it's non-recreational
so no don't no one should do this for a
good time it's is not a good time this
is uh this is a very almost traumatic
but in again a beautiful way I actually
going to say that way but it's not it's
not traumatic it's
profound so it's it's more like you
don't have
have you you you you you really leave
who you were before
behind and then you become the person
you will be
afterwards and that that's never an easy
thing yes exactly and sometimes what
what I recall is was arguing with
brother a and saying no I'm I'm fine
like what what what are you talking
about like leave me alone
[Laughter]
and uh yeah how did that work
[Laughter]
out
uh but before 2010 the accident and the
the two transformational experiences you
had you were a very
successful uh Tech CEO uh maybe go back
to the early days uh with zip 2 in 1994
you and Elon started zip 2 tell me a
story of that that yeah so 94 we
actually did a road trip around the US
to brainstorm about what what we wanted
to do after college what was the road
trip like was it that was awesome so we
went from Silicon Valley to to
Philadelphia nice and my brother's uh
old like a very really cool you know
it's one of those very old BMWs not not
not ones like from the' 60s or 70s but
it wasn't but but the car didn't work it
would break down all the time but we had
um we had a blast you know we just I
remember going through
needles on the border of California
Arizona it's a town called needles it's
the hottest place in America mhm and the
engine could was not cooling so we had
to put the heat on so we for the heat
blasting to cool the keep the engine
cool and keep the windows down because
that you can't stand the heat in the car
but actually the outside heat is hotter
than the inside heat so you're you're
just you're just in in a furnace you're
driving through night even I can't
imagine doing that in the day
yeah it was it was a it was a wonderful
we took us a few weeks I think three
weeks maybe first time Across America
first uh like a road trip like that yeah
for sure um but it was really not a road
trip for tourist sites we we went to the
weirdest places um and actually I would
say we didn't we didn't go to them we
broke down in the weirdest places
because that's what that's when we
stopped yeah dur Mee any interesting
people I remember um we broke down in
the bad lands of South Dakota mhm about
an hour from Rapid City and there that
road is empty and so we actually slept
in in the car because there was there
was just no one around you no cell
phones in those days and eventually a
trucker picked us up I was just like man
you you guys are the dumbest kids on the
planet was like 21 he was maybe 22 and
uh but but he was so he was so nice to
us and so kind to us and found us a
mechanic in rep a city and and then
found us a tow truck and yeah you find
you find the most wonderful people when
when you're when you're in a place of
distress people uh people do want to
take care of other people they help you
yeah they want to help and especially
when you're on a road trip I because I
I've taken a road trip across the United
States and there's a part of people
where
they they really love that they um I
think part of them wants to do that also
wants to kind of Escape whatever the
local struggles just whatever the
mundaneness the struggle of Life are a
road trip is a kind of thing where
you're like you know what I'm going to
get away from it all and I'm going to
experience life in the full the Epic
sort of Jack carak way of seeing America
and the people not the tourist sites
just the humans yeah exactly we this was
not tourist related we did of course one
we stopped at Mount Rushmore at night
which you can see nothing yeah yeah we
we thought that was hilarious you you
couldn't see Mount Rush more that's
great it was like well we we physically
were here we a photo of us not in the
dark you could just say you went to the
Grand Canyon too at
night uh and just visit different places
when the car broke down I love it uh so
yes you took the road trip before
founding zip 2 yeah so so I had a
experience in college running a house
painting business that for me was my
first uh experience with success it was
very very hard it was a franchise where
where they teach you know students how
to paint houses and and but I I was good
at it you know I um I built a team of 30
people but then after about two years
and so I was like I I had a taste of hey
I'm not I'm not unable to do this in
fact my most vulnerable place I remember
as an entrepreneur was I I had U I had I
just loved the idea of Wall Street and
finance was kind of allured by it this
is in late 80s I'm in high school and
there was a lot of these books liars
poker and others that came out I was
like a man this this is awesome these
people must be amazing so I went to
business school and I I busted my ass to
get like a kickass summer job and I got
a job in one of the main Banks and it
was in Toronto but it was like the
original Wall Street and I was I was so
disappointed with the people that I was
around I was just like
whoa I totally misunderstood what what
what the banking world is it was very
large Bank I'm sure if I'd gone to a
more aggressive one maybe I would have
had a better experience and I say
aggressive meaning someone was paying
attention like this was just a uh just
people kind of showing up and not doing
much you know and um any actually this
funny so this is great so the so
1991 92 so one of those Summers uh the
the but the summer job was
literally you go to the the they print
out the sales for all for all brokerage
houses for the whole company like it's a
pile of papers that's maybe four or five
feet tall and you have a pencil and you
add things up using your pencil and a
calculator and
I had known about Lotus 123 forever
Excel was coming out and I was like hey
guys you know that there's a different
way to do
this and they're like don't talk to us
just the just your job yeah go do it
just use the pencil so I went to the
head of the data I just asked you know
those those days you have the manila
envelope where you can you you just
write the name of the person that you
want this to go to and it'll go to them
it's like email I guess but you there's
no there's no filter so you I there's
spam filter there's no spam filter so
sent a note I wrote a nice letter to the
to the database administrator who I
didn't really know and I said would you
be open to me saying hi and maybe I can
get access to the file rather than print
the damn thing out and use a pencil and
she responded right away and we hit it
off I mean she was great and so she's
like of course you can have I can't
believe these guys are doing what
they're doing so um for the first couple
of weeks of the summer I I wrote I wrote
code in Lotus 123
that would um you it's going to sound
crazy but you type in the date
range you type in the geography and you
type in the you know which part of the
bank you care about and it will
literally just create it a new
spreadsheet and it would just the macro
would print it out it was like a magic
trick for these guys and incredible I
know no it's like it's a sounding that
that's I mean for me I'm like guys this
is
so
obvious and uh um so I I got all that
done and this job was supposed to take
three or four months because it's really
you're doing this with a pencil and now
I'd created this macro that you could
not just not just do it you could do it
you could tweak it and say I want this
this area of the world or this area of
um or this this month or you know that
month compared to that month you know
all the normal things you could do with
a spreadsheet and um the software was on
a floppy disc and I was like here's the
software and just put it put it into
your computer all right now now load
open one two three and and it just pops
up with a little box that type in your
dates and you know the whole little I
coded little thing like that and um what
I what I was astounded by
was not not so much that it was a magic
trick it was the lack of appreciation
for Innovation they just looked at it
they were like huh that's nice M and I
was like you just we're going to have
someone spend hundreds of hours doing
something and now it's something you can
do in a minute yeah if that doesn't you
excitement Mo yeah like if that doesn't
move your needle what the heck and so I
was really disappointed with with the
banking World anyway so that that was
that was also fun such a good example
though yeah and then also see the
possibility of where that goes but then
so then I I I got back to business
school and I I I canceled all of my
business classes I possibly could I was
actually in business school so I
couldn't cancel them all all finance
courses like I'm I'm done with that
industry I'm not going back so the the
vulnerable part for me was my whole
family is full of
entrepreneurs and there was there was
this franchise to do house painting and
I genuinely was afraid that I wouldn't
be good at it and I was like wow I
really am afraid of failure it's very
easy to avoid entrepreneurship but if
your whole family's entrepreneurs you
and you go in and you aren't good um I
was really afraid you're going to have
to face that failure every time you meet
your family yes and um it's it's
uh our family wonderful and everything
but they but pretty much everyone's an
entrepreneur and and of of course not
everyone is perfect not everyone's you
know doing it successfully all the time
but when you're when you're young and
you want to prove yourself it really was
putting my heart on my sleeve is I
started the the the business in this
part of Toronto and for the
first paint the houses in the summer but
you do all your sales pre before the
summer and you know all the way till a
April I was just not succeeding and I
was like oh I'm like oh my God I'm
just I'm just going to fail and I I
remember that I was like my my whole
nervous system was like I'm a failure
and I remember had this general manager
who who you know he was like you seem
like you know what you're
doing why are you not making any sales
and so so he actually went with me on a
few sales calls and I was like he's like
oh you're he he was great you're doing
this wrong you're doing that wrong
you're doing this wrong and Chang those
three things and it was like a
uh like a like a watershed moment just
like all of a sudden and I and I just
follow the instructions of what this guy
told me all of a sudden every single
sale I would make I was
like I can't believe that I it was
really my my um lack of humility to
learn from someone else I was like no
I'm going to
prove that I can do this without your
teachings and I I was going to fail so
to you that humility
is essential for the entrepreneur
especially young I would say if we if we
have an openness to learning which does
require
humility
um you you you course correct you help
get other people to help you course
correct but it it does start with
humility because if you if you try and
pretend you have all the answers you
don't so you went from that to founding
zip 2 that was an interesting time in
the history of tech yeah what I mean
what was it like you
mentioned uh the first people to look at
a map uh basically a directions yeah so
mapping had been on the internet but
vector-based mapping had not so that's
the ability to zoom in or zoom out and
it's really data versus an image that
comes across and uh we we came went to
this company called navtech my brother
and I and we just asked for the data and
they this is Silicon Valley they wrote
us onepage letter that we had to sign
and said here's all of our data that we
own it you don't own it but you can use
it on the internet and if you ever make
any money on it you have to call us MH
that was it yeah we're like okay that
sounds great so we put it up on the
internet and back in those days it might
take 60 to 120 seconds to actually give
you an answer back but it was amazing
the door too
directions the ability to take a map and
zoom in and zoom
out uh we use these things 10 times a
day now um it was amazing we were the
first two humans to see it on the
internet like this stuff didn't even
exist to the world like the navtec was
building it for never L for HZ never
loss which would come out a few years
later this was not something that people
knew existed this was something we
discovered that it existed and we're
like well let's put it on the internet
and share it with the world what did the
two of you feel like to like to see that
magic did you know
amazing it was like
what like did you I mean the amazing
just that it's cool but also that you
could see the future that this could
transform I don't think I don't think
people
understand before this
moment you could not be told your
directions yeah you just could not like
today we live in this world where we
told our directions all the time before
this moment you could not be told your
directions yeah and all of a sudden you
could yeah it wasn't like a little thing
yeah there's uh there's a bunch of
things that we once we have we take it
for granted and that takes like a day
for
people transition totally it's like boom
oh okay cool right exactly exactly and
it's when you see maybe when you're one
of the first humans to see that thing
you're like holy shit holy shit this is
going to be used by everyone all the
time forever so zip 2 was a success I
would say this was a success but it was
also a very hard company to build and I
mean it because the internet in those
days was a boom time we were being
funded but you couldn't make any
money and so it was actually really hard
the constant outside criticism that we
aren't for real this is not going to
survive this is not going to and it it
it started to feel that way we're like
wow man this this is uh we are doing
something that is great that people are
using and we were top 100 website um
most of our work was through folks like
the New York Times so we even even much
much busier than that but the but the um
but there was just no money at it and
even today go to Google Maps there's no
money in it it's just uh it's just local
search that that is needed for everyone
and so it became an add-on to search but
even remember in those days you couldn't
make money at search either mhm no one
had figured out adwards or anything they
didn't realize how big of a business
this was but we all knew this was a
thing mhm and everyone was using it but
didn't quite know how to make money
couldn't make money when we got acquired
it was a Bittersweet moment because
compact that owned alter Vista wanted to
merge so that's sort of regular search
with with the best search engine at the
time preg Google with zip 2 which would
be the best local search and it would be
a Yahoo
killer and the the uh compac just wanted
to make money by taking the company
public but they wouldn't give us any
stock they would just they paid us cash
which turned out actually very well for
us but because the whole internet Bubble
Burst we didn't know that at the time
and so it was bittersweet because they
they essentially wanted our company with
and we were welcome to stay but uh but
you don't have to right and that feeling
was pretty that was pretty rough
feeling but in retrospect it opened the
door to it set us set us up for an
incredible platform to go do beautiful
things you've invested in
x.com uh that eventually merged with
PayPal that's a fascinating story there
also fascinating on many levels
including the fact that the the current
social media company formerly known as
Twitter is now called X there's a
history has like a has a rhyme to it
like it's kind of all hilarious in a
certain kind of way uh you invested in
and help sell a lot of the initial
products for
Tesla yeah I still still on the board of
Tesla Tesla is 20 years now is that
amazing 20 years yeah from the Roadster
the initial Roadster to I still have the
the first business plan so I didn't join
as a Founder I join as a as a founding
board member and so I actually I didn't
write the business plan I I got to read
it and I still have that I still have it
as a part of History did you see the
future at that time
like the company that Tesla is today
could you have possibly could you Elon
imagine it no no I I um I certainly
didn't what I what I saw in it
was a real for me personally I was
really upset that the General Motors had
killed the their EV car there's even a
movie called who killed the electric car
and I and I knew that the the physics of
of um of electric is perfectly fine I
mean there's no reason why you couldn't
use an electric car to drive around what
what I what resonated with me with the
with the business plan
was take an electric motor which is
really a high performance motor and put
it in a sports car and sell it at a high
price as a way to enter into the market
whereas what what others had been doing
at least General Motors had done is you
put it into a really crummy car and you
you sell it as a commuter vehicle that
doesn't really work that well and looks
ugly as well like they really did
everything they could to make that thing
as ugly as Sin and and then um I was
like okay I get it we're we're going to
take a an appropriate technology and put
it in an appropriate car so that when
you have because electric motors they
have constant torque you incredible
power put it in a car that that looks
like a sports car you know so so so the
idea was to put it in the Lotus Elise
redesigned it a bit um
and um I even at that point I was like
this is theoretically good so I'm going
to join and help build it but I was not
convinced that it would work because
because General Motors had done such a
terrible job of making everyone think
that these things are terrible but but I
was curious and the time that I fell in
love with the company and its mission
was I was driving in in a in a what's
called a mule where we we take a a a a
car and we take the engine out and we
put put in a electric drive train and I
drove it you know even the dashboards
there's no dashboard it's just like you
got you got to steering wheel and it's
just like wires and everything around
and I remember there's a street we were
on in the Bay Area called Bing Street
and I was just like no no no no traffic
so I'm just going to drive this I'm the
floor it and see what happens and it was
it was a feeling I'd never experienced
before so it's not gasoline cars have an
inertia to them so you
yeah this is just was like being shot
out of a cannon mhm and I okay this is
going to be real it's a very spaceship
like feeling yeah it's like whoa it's
like the G the G the g4ce pulls you back
yeah so so I was like okay this is uh
this is going to be great this going be
this is going to be an interesting we're
going to create something interesting
here I think the real transformative
thing for Tesla was the the model
3 uh when we were able to get the price
down for um the world and that was also
one of the most challenging oh my
periods for Tesla for we were borderline
bankrupt like two or three times that
year I mean it was just every and
everyone was hating on us about whether
we'd get that
done the model 3 today is incredibly
affordable car like a 300 bucks a month
kind of lease and $3,000 down that's
where you get the scale that's where you
get people who and by the way it's a
great car it's even a better model 3 now
than it was five years ago we we don't
function the way car companies function
right we we function more like how an
iPhone company Apple works so our model
3 today is is this year is better than
last year it's like it's way better and
like we just keep getting better yeah
and the software is a fundamental part
of the car and the software keeps
improving exactly and we can we upload
over the air which was one of the things
that people don't often acknowledge it's
the overthe a updates it's like a
revolutionary thing it's not just the
autopilot to me it's like the over the a
updates is even bigger thing that an
autopilot at least in this like moment
of History because you you basically
turned the car into the iPhone exactly
it's an iPhone with wheels um but
actually talking about autopilot like
right after this interview I'm going to
go test out the latest model 3 you're
going to get driven around by a robot
I'm going to get driven around by the
car I'm going to say I want to go to
this barbecue join mhm take me there and
park me there and um I'm going to see
how it is and this is our the the latest
model 3 that we have out since in
production anyone can buy it and it's
super affordable and it's like okay um
uh it's not you know full stop driving
is is a is a journey right it's it's
it's not like there's a destination it's
a journey forever so let's see where we
are on the journey today and there's
been a bit of a push and pull between
you and Elon in terms of levels of
optimism about deadlines and so on
timelines about when we'll arrive at the
destination I like that you said it's a
journey yeah for Elon there's a
destination I exactly and that
destination is
tomorrow or yesterday I think that's
that's that's a really good Insight I I
actually live with this concept of a
growth mindset versus a fixed mindset
and and it's a I don't know
philosophical term where where fixed
mindset is about the destination and a
growth mindset is about learning on the
journey
and I think that I'm a happier person
because I take that learning on the
journey
approach whereas it's really frustrating
if you're always it has to be about the
destination every time the nice thing
about destination at least from my
personal perspective as like a
programmer engineer is like it's it puts
a little fire under you to get shit done
like if there's a clear deadline of a
destination you feel the aniet would say
that I still do that but I call those
forcing functions instead of
destinations sure because you're just
forcing people to crank on on some code
or cookbook or whatever because you have
a date and and you really and often
times there's a reason I mean this 20th
anniversary wanted to get the cookbook
out we have a reason is we didn't make
this up out of thin air um and so you
yeah that does push you but just because
we have the cookbook doesn't mean it's a
destination M it means it was a forcing
function to get it out there now we're
on the journey speaking of Journeys I
have to ask you about
SpaceX uh I mean the journey that all of
Humanity on seriously that is pokot in a
journey that is incredible um it's an
interesting moment in the history of
humanity that perhaps hopefully will
become a multiplanetary species uh but
SpaceX is also a company you invested in
SpaceX you were side by side with Elon
through through uh through the highs and
the lows to the lows and the highs uh so
what were some
memorable um challenges what were some
low points sure I from the history of
SpaceX one of
the hardest times in SpaceX
was uh we were in the mid Pacific in
quasand and my brother had had sold
PayPal he' done well financially but in
the rocket world that money goes away
really quickly and we're in this
military base
in
qualin and uh I think it was the second
rocket that blew up I'm not sure
but uh we didn't have infinite resources
I certainly didn't have the resources I
mean I'm there to support um brotherly
support but the um the so so every every
rocket launch was like to or die and the
first one had blown up and so the second
one I think it was the second one uh
blew up and it was it was so depressing
it was just like H and there's nowhere
to go you're in the there's no there's
no distraction you're just you're on
this military base you don't really
socialize so it's just we were all
together and I had uh I'd gotten to know
you know for me I'm not part of the team
I'm just there for emotional support or
whatever because it's cool and so I got
to know this a couple of people locally
and got to know this one guy who who had
a mobile home um best view in the world
but it's just a mobile home next with a
patch of grass next to it and uh I was
just desperate to find food that wasn't
from the cafeteria cuz this is the worst
food you can imagine yeah and and so he
showed I met met him and he showed me
this little tiny little grocery store
which had a few things like canned
tomatoes and not this is again you
middle of nowhere it's just nothing
fresh and I made this dish that
was kind of a version of a like an
Italian version of chili you know just
baked beans
and sweating onions and and then
tomatoes and it was a big pot of food
cuz it's a group of people we didn't
even have a table and we just uh put the
big pot in the middle and we had our
little paper plakes and took a scoop as
we needed it and it was really the
Gathering Place of like food brings
people together in the most difficult
times and it was one of my favorite
memories because I was able to bring my
gift to this group of incredible
people um that their hearts were broken
you know and to sit there and share a
meal and feel the life kind of come back
into us and by the end of the night
we're actually having a good time what a
fascinating contrast of rock as kind of
representing the peak accomplishment of
human beings as a society and then
returning to the thing that is the
foundation of human society which is
that communal experience communal
vulnerable connection like we mentioned
vulnerability earlier the most
vulnerable place actually that's when
you have some of your most beautiful
meals yeah the descendants of Apes
gathering around some baked beans right
after watching a rocket explode yeah uh
what gives you hope about this the
future of this whole thing we got going
on
Humanity if you look at how things have
changed over the past say 50 years uh
you can clearly say oh wow poverty rates
have gone down um infant mortality's
gone down dramatically all these things
have gone down a lot so so if you if you
if you look at it on a daily basis you
can tell that life is very dramatic you
know whether it's uh some some
something's blowing up on X or on from
the newspapers or whatever and you can
really get caught up into it but if you
look back over over the past few decades
things things are getting better and
it's and me at the fundamental level
like are less people hungry are more uh
people they are
more is there are there I there is war
going on of course but are there less
Wars
yes um and so I think that um I think if
if we all just step back a little bit
it's it's less about hope it's more of P
perspective and
reflection and um and if if uh
uh if I if I do see a problem like in
case of the Obesity epidemic I work
really hard to help with that I work our
nonprofits called big Green and we we
work with 150 nonprofits around the
country to help Americans grow food
again get connected to their food
because I really believe growing food
changes your life and so okay let's
let's go do that so then so I you know
I'll help out where I think we really do
can make a difference but but if you
step back a little things are are
actually getting better um it's just a
bumpy
yeah and for those of us watching all of
this I think uh I would love to see more
celebrating of the people that are
helping um find the people that have
found their way of helping and just
celebrating those people well I would
also actually that's a really nice point
I have learned that you really want to
celebrate your successes because even in
the greater scheme of things I've
learned this in the startup world where
you you're constantly facing death you
know like just why should you even exist
do customers want your product or
whatever and and then something will
happen where you're like wow we really
nailed that that's really great you got
a product released or got some good
Kudos from something all right everyone
we're going to go celebrate and and
actually everyone's still like no no we
got all these other problems nope we're
going to go celebrate and then we'll go
back to the problems but if you don't do
that then it starts building on this
kind of you never really get to
celebrate mhm and be grateful well I
think this is a good time to go
celebrate the very fact that we're alive
today we get to live and enjoy this
incredible life the two of us and have
this great conversation and we'll get to
celebrate over some scrambled eggs I'm
going to hold you to it beautiful uh Kim
thank you so much for talking today
thank you for having me thanks for
listening to this conversation with Kimo
musk to support this podcast please
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description and now let me leave you
some words from Anthony
Bain your body is not a temple
it's an amusement park enjoy the
ride thank you for listening and hope to
see you next
time