Kind: captions
Language: en
you always know when you live in Gaza
that it's only a matter of time before
the next bombs drop you know if you're
in
Gazza
that you are waiting for your
death people dream about going out in
the world and pursuing education people
dream about going out in the world and
pursuing Economic Opportunity in
Gazza your idea of opportunity is an
opportunity to see the next year that
has been the case and so when we talk
about you know this not existing in a
vacuum if people only hear about
Gazza on October 7th that is that is a
major part of the problem and that is
Again part of the problem of our
ignorance and our apathy right why is it
that the plight of the people of Gaza is
not brought
up until an attack happens on
Israel the following is a conversation
with Imam Dr Omar suan his second time
on the podcast he is a Palestinian
American a Muslim scholar a civil rights
leader president of the yakin institute
for Islamic Research and is one of the
most influential Muslims in the world
our previous conversation was focused on
Islam this time the focus was on Gaza
and
Palestine this is Alex Freedman podcast
to support it please check out our
sponsors in the description and now dear
friends here's Omar
suan what did you think feel and pray
for in the days that followed October
7th I think the
first feeling was
that uh there's going to be a lot of
death and destruction in Gaza as a
result right we always kind of see this
where one Israeli casualty leads to
hundreds of pales Ian casualties right
so it's a pretty familiar cycle in some
ways where there are daily
transgressions against Palestinians in
the West Bank and in Gaza the
checkpoints the aggression on MJ
AA the settlements
expanding the stories of Palestinian
death and then you have Rockets fired
from Gaza and that's when the Western
press catches up and starts to cover
Israel responds with Hellfire missiles
white phosphorus bombs and the
casualties are wildly
disproportionate and so I think that you
know I wasn't surprised I prayed for the
people that I knew were going to Bear
the
brunt of this outbreak but the outbreak
was
predictable you wrote a statement on
October 9th I was hoping uh to read it
if it's okay yeah go ahead our
Palestinian casualties are always your
footnotes the daily humiliation of
occupation ignored the aggression by
settlers and soldiers alike on holy
sights and
souls the annihilation of entire
families that follows the devastation of
whatever scraps remain in the open air
prison of Gaza unsustainable and
inhumane so if you're waking up to a
sudden interest in the region and want
to know what's been happening dig a bit
deeper than two weeks and try to read
beyond the headlines of a media that has
been dehumanizing us for
decades again this was not surprising
this was very predictable if you've been
watching what's been unfolding before
October 7th
2021 Human Rights Watch puts out the
report threshold reached Israel is an
apartheid state Amnesty International 20
22 the crime of
apartheid uh showing how all of the
legal determinations of apartheid have
been reached the occupation is only
getting more aggressive sharen abaka a
palestinian-american journalist is shot
dead in
2022 in front of the world the United
States says initially that if it is
shown that Israel was complicit or that
Israel carried out the execution then
there will be
consequences of course once it was shown
that Israel was indeed responsible for
the bullet that killed Sharin abaka the
United States did absolutely nothing
shireen's funeral was attacked the
powars were beaten her casket almost
fell and again the world is watching the
aggression
against worshippers in Al AKA is getting
worse you have the flag March the
Jerusalem flag March where extremist
settlers are let loose and Wild on
Palestinians by the thousands chanting
things like Muhammad is dead we're going
to murder you Arabs all with the
protection of the state with Israeli
soldiers and throughout this time it's
like something bad is going to happen
and then 2023 comes
along you had 13,000 settler
units in
2023 a plan of 13,000 settler units the
most in the hisory of the occupation the
most racist and extremist government
Israeli government that you have ever
had and people don't realize that in
2023 alone over 600 Palestinians had
already been killed it just doesn't make
western headlines and so if you wonder
why the American public sees this so
much differently than the rest of the
world it's because American media shows
the American public something so much
different than what the rest of the
world the shown and so this was a
pressure cooker this was going to
explode it is extremely predictable
you've given people absolutely no hope
and so I I think that as we're watching
that you know it's important for us to
actually
interrogate the
ignorance that people have of the
Palestinian plight the ignorance of the
root causes of the this violence the
ignorance of the
occupation and also ask yourselves you
know why is it that Israel can violate
every single international law on the
books have all these determinations and
the United States keeps on issuing these
inconsequential statements while also at
the same time funding these aggressions
so it's like stop the settler violence
the United States will issue statement
after statement stop the settler
violence stop the incursions on Masjid
AA stop violating the people in
Jerusalem stop trying to wipe out the
Palestinian people stop openly saying
you know that there is no two-state
solution that we will never allow a
Palestinian state to be established but
at the same time here's your $3 billion
check and uh if the United Nations
issues any sort of resolution against
Israel or if any International body
tries to hold Israel accountable the
United States stands in the way of any
accountability it's important for us to
ask why and so I always tell people read
beyond the headlines even now with the
backdrop of a genocide over 30,000
people have been killed if you open the
front page of most American mainstream
sites you will see stories about the
hostages the Israeli hostages you will
see stories about October 7th but
October 8th is missing October 9th is
missing October 10th is Miss missing 100
days of genocide are missing and you'll
barely have a story that shows up every
once in a while that you know is still
very much so controlled by the Israeli
propaganda machine because while Israel
kills Palestinian journalists it also
makes sure that American journalists are
only able to tell a certain story
they're only able to see Gaza from a
certain perspective they're only able to
speak about Gaza from a certain
perspective and this is well documented
that they have to review their media
tapes with Israel before they can
publicize them and so this is State
propaganda at this point the mainstream
media and the United States government
are in lock up telling a very skewed
story and that is leading to a greater
sense of frustration and I think the
American public has been wronged as well
by not knowing what's happening so you
mentioned settlements so to you this is
bigger than Gaza it is the West Bank it
is the the Palestinian people broadly
absolutely you can't disconnect Gaza
from Palestine you can't disconnect the
West Bank from Palestine you can't
disconnect Jerusalem from Palestine and
you can't disconnect a very human story
from the political plight you
interviewed Muhammad Kur you met him
what did the world do when it saw the
images of the CED household being taken
over by a guy from Brooklyn or Long
Island who just shows up and lays claim
to their home what did the world do when
American
settlers suddenly decided they could
walk into historic Palestinian homes and
throw people out of their homes what did
the world do and so yes this is very
much so connected to the broader issue
of Palestinian existence if you realize
here we are erased in peace and we are
erased in war
in peace it's the Abraham
Accords agreements between Israel and
its Arab Neighbors which is supposedly
to solve the Palestinian problem but
Palestinians are absent from their own
fate from discussions about their own
fate in war it's the Israel Hamas War
it's Israel and Gaza where are the
Palestinian people the millions of
Palestinian people that have either been
removed from their land or are being
tormented on their land where are they
in this discussion what are the
Palestinians in the diaspora
feeling I think deeply
frustrated a great sense of anger
sadness every single Palestinian right
now knows someone that's been killed
every single Palestinian is a part of a
story of displacement or destruction
every single Palestinian has a relative
that's either e missing a limb or a
loved one every single Palestinian in
the world is traumatized by
this and in some ways being
outside of Palestine being away from it
all hurts even more because you see your
people being
killed and starved and brutalized and
slaughtered and you can't do anything
about it and the people around you are
justifying that Slaughter if you turn on
a TV or if you open a mainstream news
site these sites are justifying your
Slaughter and people are being killed
over there because they look like me
because they're Palestinian like I'm
Palestinian and so we're watching this
in diaspora uh with Agony we can't go we
can't we can't heal our loved ones we
can't Comfort the people that are there
I recently spoke to a doctor who's lost
75 relatives 75 relatives and Gaza and
he's a medical doctor and all he wants
to do is get in there and just use his
medical expertise to help his people and
he
can't and so we're watching it from afar
but our hearts are there they are in the
buildings that are being destroyed
they're in the hospitals that are being
bombed they are there and they are with
the
people you're somebody who's always
rushed into the midst of a crisis so
what does it feel like on a personal
level to not be able to do that here to
go to Gaza to
help yeah
it's it's really hard I mean when any
group of people are
killed
uh my instinct and I think a lot of
people is to go there to help whether
it's a natural disaster or especially
after an incident of Terror um wherever
it is right it's
Rush there and do the best that you can
to help people get through it um so it's
been extremely hard uh to watch this
from afar and feel like I can't do
anything about it and so that's why
instead I think that uh most of us are
driven to continue to be the voice of
the voiceless you know I always say that
if they've made them faceless they can't
make us
voiceless they have reduced our
casualties in pal
to a number the number is
hundreds a day over 30,000 people we're
averaging 10,000 people a month the fact
that they've been turned into faceless
numbers with no stories with no Humanity
makes it that much more important for us
to tell their stories here and to remind
the world that you've lost your Humanity
if you can watch this unfold and not
even have the decency to call for a
ceasefire
I mean that's the that's where we've
reached that's how low it is right now
calling for a
ceasefire has now become radical uh so
we have to remind the world that if
you're okay with the Demolition of an
entire town or a city or whatever it is
that you want to call Gaza because it
wasn't always the Gaza Strip but if
you're okay with this and you're okay
with this casualty count every single
day it's not just them who are being
killed it's your hearts that are dying
and I think that when I look back to Dr
Martin Luther King Jr and I I mentioned
this he wrote about Vietnam he said that
if America was to succumb to uh its
spiritual death the autopsy would read
Vietnam I would say that it would read
Gaza
now speaking of the people the faces the
voices one of the people you've talked
about you've posted about you've written
about is while him being
hospitalized he's a Palestinian
journalist and the bureau chief of Al
jazer and Gaza City what can you tell me
about this man if W wasn't Palestinian
he'd be on the cover of Time Magazine
right now he would be the most
celebrated journalist in the
[Music]
world is from Gaza he has been in
Israeli prisons he has been under
Israeli air strikes he has seen the
worst of the occupation before he seen
the worst of the genocide
while on TV I mean and this is this is
insane when you think about it we have
over a hundred journalists now right
that's more than any conflict in history
that have been killed and there is
sufficient evidence by International uh
Watchdogs that this is intentional that
journalists have been killed
intentionally but then their families
while it was reporting on TV when an air
strike hits his
wife two kids and a
grandchild
he goes to the scene and he said this
you know you never expect as a
journalist to be the subject of the
story suddenly the camera is on him
mourning over his dead wife and kids and
grandkid and he's saying he even says it
in Arabic he says they're taking it out
on our children they're taking it out on
our
children uh you know I've heard this
from multiple people that have had
relatives targeted that I wish it was me
instead
he gets back on camera the same day
because he feels a responsibility to
continue to cover the lives of the
people of Gaza he understands that his
story as devastating as it is is not
unique in regards to the people of Gazza
that there are many people whose
families have been killed in air strikes
all two million people have been
traumatized in some way and so he gets
back on camera tells the story again and
and then he is targeted
himself uh his arm struck his cameraman
Sam dies in front of him he bleeds out D
watches him bleed out for hours and
while any Aid workers try to reach them
in the building that they were in uh
snipers would shoot all of those that
were rushing to Sam so he watches his
cameraman one of his best friends bleed
out to death while goes to the hospital
hospital his arm is wrapped up gets
treatment he's back on camera the next
day a few weeks later uh another child
is killed again with his
friend uh in a car so this was a
targeted air strike his son is
driving and his son and his best friend
are hitting an air strike while it leads
the funeral prayer is back on camera
again and speaks with such dignity with
such compassion you know one of the
things
that always gets to me as as a
Palestinian right and as a Muslim
too is that we are portrayed to be these
beasts and Savages tell me a man that
would be put through what wild was put
through and still stand on that on that
pulpit and in front of the world with
such dignity with such Grace continues
to tell the story W has become a hero to
many of us
and he would be a hero in a
world that wasn't anti-
Palestinian and
unfortunately has not only lost his
family he's not only lost much of his
own existence but well is part of the
greater story of eraser so even though
he's telling the story of the people of
Gaza and he is the story of the people
of
Gaza most people will never learn about
w
you have posted videos and written about
what is happening in Gaza since October
7th what has been happening there the
individual stories and the broader
impact on the 2 million people there
Gaza has been described as the world's
largest open air prison unemployment
blockaded from all directions no
airport um Regular added restrictions
placed even on their ability to fish
so every aspect ofin life has been under
occupation I would argue that it's an
injustice to even call it an open air
prison
because inmates are not bombed in prison
routinely by the most sophisticated
weapons in the world regular bombardment
of Gazza every single person in razza
has lived through multiple rounds of
bombardment it is deeply uh
distressing you know I I remember in uh
2021 there was an
image that I will never forget of
children having to go back to school
after the bombardment of
and next to them they would have the
empty chairs and the posters of the
child that used to sit in that
chair I think what encapsulates it most
for
me and image that I grew up with was the
image of Muhammad dur who was in his
father's lap over 20 years ago and his
father was begging for Israel to spare
his child and Muhammad was murdered in
his
lap and you know what happened this last
round his other kids were murdered so
Muhammad's brothers were murdered and
his father's been on the run every
single person in Gaza has witnessed
multiple Wars has witnessed the the
greatest Suffocation of
occupation has even had their diets
restricted and has suffered under Israel
State policy which is called mowing the
lawn and everyone should look this up
this is what Israeli ministers refer to
as routine bombardment of Gazza mowing
the
lawn which shows you that before they
called us animals they considered us
insects and unfortunately the casualty
counts get higher and higher every time
and people become more and more
desperate more and more helpless
Gazza has been unfortunately the worst
manifestation of anti- Palestinian
bigotry it's already I mean 60% of the
population is a refugee population what
that means and people do need to
understand this is that people move to
Gazza from other parts of occupied
territory to find
refuge and we're practically living on
top of each
other there are people that that are in
the gazda strip that know that they had
homes right beyond that apartheid wall
and those homes were stolen from them
and they can't even enter that territory
anymore and they know that on the other
side of that wall there's life on the
other side of that wall there's
opportunity on the other side of that
wall you have a passport you have an
airport you have the ability to travel
you have the ability to export and
import you can dream but behind that
wall you are are to live until the next
air strike you are to live until Israel
mows the lawn again and hope that you're
not part of the grass that's what Gazza
has been all of these years so
pragmatically and psychologically it is
very difficult to
flourish when you're just waiting for
more bombardment cuz you know that it's
around the corner you always know when
you live in Gazza that it's only a
matter of time before the next bombs
drop you know if you're in
Gaza
that you are waiting for your
death people dream about going out in
the world and pursuing education people
dream about going out in the world and
pursuing Economic Opportunity in
Gazza your idea of opportunity is an
opportunity to see the next year that
has been the case and so when we talk
about you know this not existing in a
vacuum if people only hear about
Gazza on October 7th that is that is a
major part of the problem and that is
Again part of the problem of our
ignorance and our apathy right why is it
that the plight of the people of Gazza
is not brought
up until an attack happens on
Israel I've gotten a chance to witness a
destroyed School in
Ukraine it's something
that is really difficult to see yeah
have over 100 destroyed
mosques every University in Gaza has
been demolished we're seeing Tik Tock
videos of Israeli soldiers laughing and
singing as they press a button and we
see the demolition of every single
University in Gaza schools have been
reduced to Rubble there's a cultural
genocide as well I want you to think
about what you saw in Ukraine look
imagine coming back to school in Gaza
and some destroyed building you're
missing legs you're missing arms you
have white phosphorus Burns have you
ever seen what white phosphorus does to
a person there's a reason why it's a war
crime you have white phosphorus burns
your mom's dead your dad's dead all of
your uncles and aunts are dead all of
your siblings are dead somehow you got
pulled out of the
Rebel you know in my own family my
father's in-laws my father remarried
after my mother passed away um and
they're in
Gaza all all of them were killed in an
air strike except for an elderly Aunt
who somehow made it out of the Rebel a
day later if you're a child that's been
pulled out of the Rebel what are you
going to grow up with I mean what are
you supposed to feel what are you
supposed to
think and then you have you
know racist commentators that say they
could have turned that into a Singapore
you know the Palestinians are the
authors of their own destruction
because if they wanted to they could
have turned this into a place of
prosperity but they keep on bringing
destruction upon themselves so at the
root of this is a bigotry and again this
idea that uh Palestinians are savages
they're animals and the only way to deal
with them is to continuously mow the
lawn while simultaneously expanding the
occupation and erasing anything that was
ever called Palestine and any human
being that was ever called the
Palestinian
so those kids growing up in Gaza now to
you they have almost no choice but to
have
hatred for
Israel it's
human I mean look any
child that is under that type of
Oppression is going to hate their
oppressor I don't care who you are I
don't care what you are but here's my
problem with how that gets brought
up you're talking about the future of
the security of Israel even some people
that speak about it uh seemingly from a
place of being well-meaning that say the
only way that Israel can have its
Security is to stop killing Palestinians
and so the future of Israel depends upon
Palestinians not hating Israel so much
and so we've got to stop tormenting
these people so that they don't grow up
to want to torment us you've already
decided then whose life is worth more
than the other and so instead of talking
about the future
of Israeli Lives why don't you talk
about the present of Palestinian lives
instead of talking about whether or not
your state will be secure in the
future talk to me about why you're
killing children now 2third of the
30,000 civilians are women and children
and so uh we can't talk about what these
children are going to grow up with we
should talk about whether or not these
children are going to grow up in the
first place and that should be what
dominates our conscience right now and
what drives our policies and what drives
our emotions right now so when I had a
conversation with Elam musk he
suggested that what Israel should do is
conspicuous acts of
kindness so do as much
positive things in Gaza as possible on a
basic individual human level and at a
policy level at every level what do you
think about that I mean you don't pass
out candy in a concentration camp you
end the
occupation and so there has to be a
solution that is beyond merely acts of
kindness at the end of the day if you're
occupying a
people you have to remove that
occupation a paride is not dealt with by
acts of kindness on the part of the
occupying power apartheid is dealt with
by ending a parthe and so there has to
be a level of accountability it's not
just acts of kindness it's not just uh
treating the people with more dignity
it's giving them the ability to pursue
their own dignity there's a reason why
it's called Palestinian
self-determination the United States
likes to use it in all of its
inconsequential statements that we need
Palestinian self-determination too but
the United States also voted against 138
states in the United Nations to allow
for Palestinian
self-determination uh self-determination
means I get to pursue my own course of
worth I get to pursue my own happiness I
don't have to depend on the benevolence
of my occupier and when my occupier
feels like you know throwing me a few
more crumbs it has to end there has to
be a point now where the world says this
is not sustainable it's not just about
ending the present genocide a ceasefire
is the bare minimum I think any decent
human being would be calling for a
ceasefire right now but at some point
you cease occupation you cease apartheid
because what led to the ability
of Israel to carry out a genocide
without any
accountability was that the global Arena
has permitted it to do so largely due to
American obstruction of
justice is violence an effective
method of resistance so the framework
that I would propose is
that Dr King mentioned that peace is not
the absence
of violence it's the presence of
justice and so occupation and apartheid
are violence even in their most
benevolent
manifestations the default of occupation
is that it is unjustified the default of
apartheid is that it is unjustified and
it must be dealt with the default of
resistance to occupation and apartheid
is that it is Justified but there can be
transgressions even resisting occupation
and apartheid right and and I come to
this from an Islamic perspective my
moral framework is
Islam the prophet Muhammad peace be upon
him was outraged when he saw uh a woman
or a child that was dead from the other
side the side of his
persecutors and so yes you know we have
a saying as Muslims that they are not
our teachers our oppressors are not our
teachers but the concept of resistance
to
occupation it is morally Justified it is
justified by international law any
occupied people have the right to defend
themselves we talk about Israel's right
to defend itself Israel is the occupier
any occupied people by international law
have the right to defend
themselves uh and any occupation is
unjustified and illegal and so that's
where I start from that's the point that
I come to this with I think that the
problem is is that the Palestinians are
told find better ways to resist and then
they are
demonized when they try to find any
other way to resist you know if you go
back a few years ago you had the great
return March people in Gaza marched to
the wall in what was one of the most
inspiring protests or
demonstrations that I had ever seen
March to the wall nonviolent
protest and snipers took out their legs
AP actually
documented that Israeli snipers had knee
counts where you had an Israeli soldier
that would say I took out 45 knees they
actually had a register a scroll of KNE
counts and so you have all these kids in
Gaza walking around without legs now
because they were targeted by snipers
when they marched to the wall we're told
to find methods of nonviolent resistance
but when we boycott when we Bunch you
know boycotts around the world in
response to this transgression in
response to this ongoing oppression that
the world powers have shown either the
inability or the unwillingness to reign
in we're told that that's anti-semitic
even though it is based on the South
African method of bringing an end to the
apartheid regime there so uh don't
respond with violence don't respond
non-violently don't protest uh don't try
to use people power in the face of
global impotence at the political level
instead let's just keep talking about
the two-state solution and while talking
about the two-state solution if you were
to look at a
map under every single Israeli
regime conservative or liberal whatever
it is the settlements have expanded more
Palestinian land has disappeared more
Palestinians have been dispossessed more
Palestinians have been killed and so we
have these little pieces of land that
keep on
shrinking and Jerusalem keeps
disappearing and there's aggression
whether Palestinians are resisting or
not but then we're told why can't you
people just pursue peace why can't you
just believe in a better way all along
we're hearing Israeli ministers become
far more radical and uh open about their
intentions to wipe us off the face of
the Earth and that is actually their
policy it's not just slogans it's not
Fringe elements actual Israeli Minister
starting from the Prime Minister himself
who has executed a policy of the removal
of all Palestinian lands and Palestinian
lives and then we're told peace peace
peace peace and it is awfully ugly when
you use the language of peace to
suffocate the work of Justice you know
Dr Martin Luther King Jr one of his
early sermons was something along the
lines of when peace is obnoxious when
peace is obnoxious it was in the
1950s around the m monery uh bus boycott
and he talked about how this obsession
with the language of peace is usually
used to try to uh keep people in status
quo and make them complacent with their
miserable situation that has been the
story of the Palestinian people that
they've been told that if you do things
differently then you will find peace but
everything the Palestinians have tried
inside and outside has been met with
repression the most violent forms of it
they in Gaza and Beyond and so look I I
start from the place of wanting to see
peace I want to see a situation in which
no innocent people lose their
lives but we have to analyze the
situation with some justice with some
fairness what would any group of people
do in this situation that doesn't mean
that you hope for hell that means that
you analyze the existing circumstances
of Hell which was life in Gaza even
before October 7th that said you did
talk about wild lak duuk and
dignity and you mentioned
transgressions so there is places where
violence can go too far absolutely so
violence again the point is is that you
you ask yourself why we've been silent
about the violence all of this time and
you know what when people say well what
about this what about that my response
is this what I would love to see is
effective International bodies of
Justice being able to reign in any party
that has committed an act of aggression
or committed an act of Injustice and
hold them accountable any reasonable
human being would say yeah you know what
there should be effective International
bodies that can reign in parties that
can't be reigned in domestically that
could stop the violence that could
assign blame properly and then have
methods of accountability the problem is
is that Israel has been made Invincible
in the international Arena because of
the United States and then we wonder why
there's such a rise in global
anti-American sentiment it's not because
of American Freedom it's because America
is directly participating the United
States government is directly
participating in the worst genocide that
we have ever seen in our lives right
playing out on
screen you know on social media and we
can't do anything about it so I think
that the point is is that we need those
International bodies we need methods of
effective accountability and I would
love to see blame properly assigned and
anyone that kills any innocent human
being take into account anyone that is
guilty of a war crime Tak to account we
have to ask ourselves why is it that
Israel has violated over 63 United
Nations resolutions has expanded its
occupation has killed over 600
Palestinians before October 7th why is
it that Israel cannot be held
accountable and so when you talk about
you know words that get thrown around um
you know that that are used to justify
violence against more innocent
people you know when I'm asked about uh
terrorism is it only terrorism if it's a
non-state actor
if someone's sitting inside a room you
know of suits and can press a button and
terrorize thousands of people and murder
innocent people with no
consequences how is that not terrorism
so if terrorism is only to be assigned
to non-state actors then it's a word
without function in fact it's a word
that justifies more terror that is then
rained upon innocent populations we have
to have moral consistency children
should not be killed not non combatant
should not be targeted we can all agree
upon that why aren't there proper
investigative bodies and then proper
International bodies of accountability
then that can execute their findings in
a way that makes the world a better
place in a way that actually brings
about more peace and so you know I think
this is where we're at right now
and this is the frustration and this is
the the place that the Palestinians have
been left so to you violence becomes
terrorism when men women and children
non-combatants are killed no matter who
is doing the killing
absolutely
absolutely in
America for you
for other Palestinians other Muslims in
your community what has all of this been
like it feels like there's a uh a return
to some of the days uh after 9/11 the
dehumanization the feeling of complete
disregard for our Humanity at the level
of government at the level of
media feeling of an increase in
surveillance the feeling of an increase
in
bigotry um people are losing their
jobs uh and people are being uh
bered on campuses and grocery stores and
people are being killed
you know I went to the funeral of a
six-year-old boy who was killed directly
due to anti-palestinian
propaganda and so I think that a lot of
us are feeling a return to that but we
also uh refuse to be cornered into a
position where we are told to
perpetually condemn acts of violence and
not speak about the violence that's
committed against us here
abroad can you tell the story of this
boy why Alpha
he's a 6-year-old Palestinian American
boy who was stabbed 26 times in his home
in planfield Township Illinois it was
found to be a hate crime motivated by
islamophobia and
um the
attacker said you Muslims must
die so before W was killed W was killed
on a Saturday it was um the immediate
Saturday after October 7th I remember on
Friday uh media starts to reach out to
every Imam in the country every Muslim
leader in the country and say what are
you going to do about this Global day of
jihad what are you going to do about the
global day of jihad it's like what are
you talking about it's like well Hamas
has called for a global day of jihad so
how are you going to stop Muslims from
attacking people right so it's Friday
and I'm like well this is the first I'm
hearing from you and I I remember resp
responding to a local reporter most
people I just ignored I responded to a
local reporter I said I've got people in
my community that have already lost 10
15 relatives at that point now it's
2030 and you haven't said a word and now
you're reaching out to me about the
potential violence of Muslims in America
this is great this is just like 9911
right what are you going to do to
restrain you angry
Muslims from responding to what's
happening overseas and responding to the
call of a global day of jihad
guess what that
night this man takes out a military
knife and attacks a six-year-old boy a
six-year-old Palestinian Boy by the way
it gets worse the more details that you
know and and I recently had a chance to
go and speak to his mom uh cuz she was
in the hospital when I was there for the
funeral so I had a chance to visit her
um not too long ago and she was attacked
also she was attacked first it was
actually their landlord so Hanan the
mother um was at home with wadir
six-year-old
boy landlord comes in and with
absolutely no emotion just charges at
her starts with her she was able to
fight him off he stabbed her initially
seven or eight times with a military
grade
knife she fought him off um escaped to
call
911 and while she's calling 911 she
hears wer
W ran up to the man calling him Uncle
Joe because the land lord prior to that
had been kind to them used to give wer
toys wer had an infectious beautiful
smile every picture you see that kid
beautiful beautiful beautiful smile and
so w runs up to him says Uncle Joe he
runs up to him to give him a hug even
though he's carrying a military grade
knife with blood on it cuz wer doesn't
believe that harm can come to him from
that
man and um Hanan didn't think
that he would do anything to her kid
even in that fit of rage the last thing
that she says she heard was oh
no you know W says oh no and then he
starts to stab him 26 times says you
Muslims Must
Die uh usually in a scene like that
police are hesitant
to classify something as a hate crime it
was classified as a hate crime the very
same
day the thing is is that who's complient
in that hate crime what filled that
man's head for him to believe that he
was doing an act of Good by murdering a
six-year-old Palestinian
boy and in
reality Uncle Joe was motivated by
President Joe Biden who repeated a
debunked report that there were 40
beheaded Israeli babies and he said I
saw 40 beheaded Israeli babies the White
House walked it
back afterwards in a statement that no
one reads because it was factually false
but Uncle Joe heard
it and had been binge
watching media about these violent
Palestinians and suddenly the propaganda
overcame his own humanity and what he
knew of that family and he went in and
ruined their lives and you know now you
know just like any any
mom you know she hasn't moved the thing
his bike is still in the same place it
was his toys are still in the same place
she's left with this great void this
great emptiness if that was the only
crime it would be
enough to wake this country up and say
oh no this is not where we need to go oh
no right the last thing she heard him
say was oh no if that was it and I got
the news by the way when I was
ironically at a protest we were
protesting on Saturday Downtown Dallas
and I started getting all these texts
about what happened in Chicago oh no
right
like no Muslims attacked anyone the
media was in a frenzy over the global
day of jihad I got called by national
news outlets and local news outlets what
are you going to do about Muslims that
are going to turn into monsters and
start killing people in the streets
next thing we know we have a dead
six-year-old Palestinian boy went to his
funeral um and that's kind of speaks to
the proximity part of
things yeah it felt like stepping into
Gaza right for a moment it didn't feel
like America didn't feel like America
felt like stepping into Gaza his casket
was wrapped in a Palestinian
flag um there was not just sadness at
his funeral but a deep sense of anger at
the funeral some of his family members
shouted out Joe Biden you did this Joe
Biden you did
this
um and and you know I
remember the next day it was right after
the
funeral looking at the front page of
CNN and the story of wer was
buried in the last in the last
section and it it was right over all
these meaningless ads and I thought to
myself that's it like if this was if
this was an Arab man let's be real let's
be honest here if this was a Palestinian
landlord that stabbed a six-year-old
Jewish boy to
death this would have gotten more
attention it would have been the front
page of the news and rightfully so
people would have
grieved over the insanity of stabbing a
six-year-old boy 20 six times became an
afterthought the very next
day and so it's an extension of the
bigotry an extension of the racism and
there's so much that happens after that
there's the terrible uh stabbing of uh
Detroit synagogue president Samantha
wall and it's horrible she was stabbed
in her driveway immediately front page
of all the news outlets immediately it's
the main news story and immediately the
implications are there go the Muslims
the Palestinians have lost their minds
the Muslims have they are who we thought
they were right that's what it is they
are who we thought they were they went
and they stabbed a synagogue president
it turned out it wasn't a hate crime
although it's an awful crime it turned
out it wasn't a hate crime what de's an
afterthought had people reach out to me
afterwards expressing
condolences and I responded to them
those who have Justified the genocide in
Gaza
but that we're somehow offering
condolences uh for w privately of course
you know by the way if a Muslim would
have committed that crime every single
Muslim leader would have had press in
front of their door to condemn that
crime we would have all been made
complicit had people reach out to me say
I'm sorry about what happened with with
wer it's terrible you know I saw you at
the funeral praying for you my response
was what's the difference between wadir
and a boy in Gaza what's the difference
between me and wad here I'm a
Palestinian child my parents made it out
of Palestine I was born in this country
if I didn't have the opportunity to grow
up here and to become the person that I
became you would have been justifying my
murder right now you would have been
okay with my genocide you would have
been giving the talking points to the
press to erase me but you feel sorry
because wadir was killed and I think
this is when we say that anti-
Palestinian bigotry is an extension of
islamophobia if a mosque gets targeted
here people rightfully rush to protect
that mosque and say this is horrible and
it shouldn't happen but when you have an
Israeli soldier bombing a mosque and
laughing like a maniac on video and it's
going viral on Tik Tok and there's no
way to reain that in and you don't have
a word of condemnation about it in fact
you are standing in the way of a
ceasefire then you're a hypocrite
there's no way around it you are a
hypocrite what's the difference between
a mosque here and a mosque there what's
the difference between a Palestinian
life here and and a Palestinian life
there if you're okay with me being
murdered there don't say that you care
about my life here and so that hypocrisy
has been laid bare we have said multiple
times masks are falling masks are
falling people that we thought were
decent people somehow have found it in
themselves to justify a
genocide there is no shortage at this
point of videos and again when you you
know I could have made the excuse for
you maybe in the first few
weeks you know that you hadn't seen
enough but with all social media
suppression across all platforms there
isn't a single platform that hasn't
suppressed Palestinian voices with all
that
suppression there are enough videos at
this point of children whose heads have
been blown off of children walking
around without limbs of parents carrying
their their kids in bags not body bags I
mean grocery bags cuz they don't even
have body bags and screaming out and
saying why are you doing this this to me
make it stop and you come back and you
tell that person it's hamas's
fault where is your Humanity where is
your sense of decency isn't that the
logic of the so-called terrorism that
you condemn yeah you can wipe out entire
populations you should have talked to
Hamas it's hamas's fault all the kids in
the West Bank all
like where does this end so what's your
what what are your moral boundaries here
right so if if that's the logic that
you're okay with then in that case when
there's a mass shooter in a school in
the United States just bomb the whole
school in fact bomb the whole town if
you can't find the mass shooter you know
where does this end for you right and so
when I say people have lost their
Humanity they're killing us overseas but
their hearts are dying people have lost
their Humanity they've lost any sense of
morality and their moral boundaries and
being there and and and I mean
participating in his funeral it was it
was anger I'm not used to that I'm not
used to that you know I'm an Imam I
Pastor to people I went to Christ Church
and that was the worst i' ever seen
before where 50 Muslims were killed by a
white
supremacist and he murdered them with
such callousness and I remember being at
those funerals and yeah I mean there was
anger but it was just profound sadness
because at least the rest of the world
could all come out in one voice and say
that's
wrong now most of the world sees what's
happening in Gaza and says this is
disgusting most of the world sees this
and says this is a
genocide but we happen to live in this
bubble here where we're constantly being
told we did this to
ourselves and that's the same logic that
led to our initial expulsion
1948 what was the crime of those 700
100,000 Palestinians that were driven
out of their home in 1948 what did they
do they didn't do they did not commit
the Holocaust they didn't have a mass
murder of Jews at their hands what did
they do what crime were they paying
for and so it's been the consistent
theme this is the story of our people
not since October 7th this is the story
of our people for the last 75
years there is a deep geopolitical
connection between the United States and
that part of the world what is the role
of us politicians in all of
this you know James
Baldwin uh wrote about how Israel was
created as an extension of United States
policy to be a colonial entity at the
gates of the Middle East and to function
essentially as a military base out there
and as a means of of extending its
policy um you know throughout the Middle
East and it has functioned as such the
United States stes is not an honest
peace broker it never has been an honest
peace broker the United States uh has
never shown any uh meaningful
inclination towards peace has guarded
and protected Israel from International
accountability has made Israel
Invincible the United States is not just
responsible at the governmental level
for the genocide it's responsible for
letting it get to this point in the
first place we have
funded that Arsenal we've given them the
most sophisticated weapons in the world
to test
on the most desperate population in the
world we've given them the
weapons it's been
bipartisan we have issued at most
inconsequential statements of
condemnation but at the same time
stopped any International body of law
from actually holding it accountable so
the United States at this point um
unfortunately has rightfully lost all
credibility it should remove
itself uh from this because it is not an
honest peace broker I think Americans
are probably sick of us paying for Wars
in general I think Americans are
probably sick of our tax dollars going
to funding a genocide while we have a
rise of homelessness and um income erity
here in the United States I think that
Americans probably don't like that we're
making
ourselves uh so deeply unpopular in the
world because of Israel's actions so in
the immediate moment make this stop the
United States could have had a ceasefire
a long time ago the United States could
have ended this genocide right
away the reason why this is
continuing is because of US foreign
policy and in the process of Joe Biden
talking about managing this crisis and
talking about making things better there
have only been more bills that have come
out of Congress in fact he's bypassed
Congress to fund the Arsenal to keep
replenishing the Arsenal stop paying for
weapons stop paying for someone else's
war crimes stop protecting another
country as it commits these war crimes
and if you can't be an honest peace
broker get out of the process so there's
money that you just mentioned and bills
and then there's rhetoric which you also
criticized that he spoke about the
beheaded
babies and things of that nature so
where has uh Joe Biden fallen short now
we need another podcast that's going to
take a few hours to talk about where Joe
Biden has failed um for one the first
time he seemed to find the word
Palestinian in his vocabulary was when
he accused the Palestinians of lying
about the death toll uh in Gaza
and then that turned out to also be
false in fact the numbers that were
coming out of the Gaza Health Ministry
according to multiple International
bodies have been Under reporting
Palestinian casualty counts Israeli
intelligence has said that the civilian
count or the death toll is actually
higher than what's been coming out of
the Gaza Health Ministry so he's failed
on that front he has failed to speak to
Palestinian Humanity he has spoken with
deep passion and concern as as Anthony
blinkin about you know the devastation
in Israel and the way that people are
feeling in Israel and has shown nothing
of that sort towards Palestinians we
don't want the rhetoric we really don't
want the rhetoric uh you know when
people say call for a ceasefire the
United States has had an opportunity and
has an opportunity to to really walk
back and reflect on its entire policy
towards Israel Palestine this is a
moment of reflection this is a moment of
restoration if you want it to be right
and to think about what we've enabled in
the first place he's shown absolutely no
real
empathy
um
and I think that he is under great
delusion and thinking that um the Muslim
Community
or people of conscience are going to
forgive this are going to forget this
come November you can't tell us that
well at least I don't have the Trum
Muslim ban while also carrying out a
genocide primarily against Muslims and
think that the Muslims are still going
to vote for you and so we will May him
hear us at the polls and any
politician uh for Congress or otherwise
that has not called for a ceasefire that
has been a part of this
dehumanization we will make sure that we
cease support for them in any way as a
community it's only right so Biden has
lost or is losing the hearts and the
support of the
Muslim Palestinian people and the uh
Muslim people in America I don't know if
you ever had the hearts of the Muslim
Community be honest with you I mean I
personally was never a Joe Biden fan I
think a lot of people felt the same you
know this country unfortunately leads to
the uh the way that our political system
is built is that you're always voting
for the lesser of the two evils that's
always the way that is it's analyzing
which evil is lesser right and when
people say if you vote for Donald Trump
and I'm not planning to vote for Donald
Trump either but if you don't vote for
Joe Biden right if you don't vote for Jo
Joe Biden right then you are destroying
democracy I'm like a democracy that's
given us a choice between Donald Trump
and Joe Biden is already a failed
democracy and so he he never had the
hearts and minds of the Muslim Community
uh people always saw past his rhetoric
he always has had a terrible disposition
towards Palestine he's always had a
terrible disposition towards the Muslim
World um you know his his segregationist
past comes out sometimes when he starts
talking about the Muslim world and and
you can hear the racism in his voice and
you can hear the way that he talks about
uh Palestinian life um in such devalued
fashion so he lost us uh a long time ago
but he's definitely not getting us back
after this in any way and I can't speak
for all Muslims but
I think that come
November uh he and all of those
politicians especially in swing states
that have turned their backs on the
Muslim Community and not just the Muslim
Community by the way 67% of this country
wants a ceasefire three4 of democratic
voters want a ceasefire half of
Republican voters want a ceasefire right
it's not just the Muslim Community this
is not some radical opinion to call for
a ceasefire and every single politician
that has refused to hear us is going to
pay a price at the polls as they should
that doesn't mean that we're under any
illusion that the other side promises us
anything better in fact it it s it feels
like Republicans have simply rushed to
out rist the Democrats to outpace them
in terms of talking about how they're
going to be more Unapologetic in
supporting Israel unconditionally right
like it's it's been
pathetic um but something has to change
and I think that Americans of
conscience have to look at how this
failed political system has hurt people
here and abroad and talk about how to
transcend that with just more Humanity
again when you have 67% of the American
public that wants a ceasefire but only a
handful of congressmen out of over 500
can muster up the courage in the face of
these super packs to say that you know
uh we should stop the genocide right and
and is like what are you asking for here
you're asking for the genocide to stop
you're asking for Israeli hostages to be
brought home you're asking for
Palestinian prisoners to be released
you're asking for peace and to start
carving the path out to end this once
and for all right in the most ambiguous
way possible by the way because there
aren't many radical American politicians
all right it's it's the way that the
system is in the most ambiguous be way
possible and you can't even bring
yourself to do that this is already a
failed democracy then all the while
again you know it always boggles my mind
if you're from the America First crew
what's America First about uh funling
billions and billions and billions of
dollars to Israel while it carries out
this genocide while people are starving
here and if you're part of the human
rights crew and you know Progressive
crew it's you know they have a term
called Progressive except Palestine
right P Progressive except Palestine
where are all your Notions of social
justice you talk about policing here but
you don't talk about who trains our
police departments in many major cities
and the type of brutality that's being
carried out there you talk about human
rights at the border here but you don't
talk about the assault on people at the
border there you talk about all of these
things here but you somehow use the
exact same framings against the people
there so it's it's exposed I think the
moral
bankruptcy of both political Polar
Opposites that exist in this country
right now
and
hopefully evoked a greater societal
sentiment to say this is
ridiculous you know one of the things
that is happening is that more people
are getting their news outside of Legacy
Media
Outlets you can't hide that many dead
babies anymore you just can't more
people have woken up to the Palestinian
plight now than ever before more people
are outraged that this has been been our
American foreign policy all throughout
you know uh Democratic and Republican
administrations this is what we've been
paying for this is what we've been
excusing and Israeli leaders literally
spit in the faces of whoever the
American president is and says yeah we
don't care what they tell us to do you
know American leadership says we're
pushing Israel to minimize the the
casualties to to get less indiscriminate
with its bombing to manage the crisis
get a few more humanitarian corridors in
to make make sure that that Gaza is not
evacuated and not ethnically cleansed to
make sure Palestinians can come back and
Netanyahu comes on TV and says from The
River To The Sea how ironic is that from
The River To The Sea and that is his
policy we're going to make sure that
Israel controls from The River To The
Sea and we're going to push Palestinians
into sin and Muslim countries need to
take them in you have Israeli ministers
National Defense ministers saying you
know things openly right like we want to
thin out the population I.E ethnic
cleansing we want to remove people and
the Muslim world needs to step up and
take in these refugees right and the
American Administration you know or the
American president says an American
Secretary of State says you know we're
talking to them and we're making sure
that that's not going to happen and if
one of their ministers says something
blinkin maybe tweets out something about
how that's not going to happen but then
it happens anyway and then we still
write them the
so I think most of the American public
is probably going to get sick of this at
some point just people of decency and
people of conscience are going to say
yeah this is not something we want to be
a part of anymore do you think there's
something that Donald Trump can
do to help move this in the right
direction Trump's first words were about
how he's going to be worse uh on this
right so he talked about how he's going
to deport people uh revoke visas of uh
you know students that are part of these
Pro Palestinian rallies also the focus
was on the rallies versus what's going
on abroad yeah but look we had a Donald
Trump presidency he moved the embassy to
Jerusalem he was not better on this uh
unfortunately this is a bipartisan
problem and so again we're under No
Illusion here like we're not looking to
Donald Trump as a savior here but we are
going to penalize Joe Biden and that's
you know I can't speak for everybody but
I think that that's where a lot of our
minds are at right
now you spoke at the November 4th
demonstration in Washington called the
free Palestine
March it had a lot of people several
hundred thousand people there what do
you remember from that experience well
the first thing I remember is that there
was no news coverage of it so 400,000
people march on DC one of the largest
marches in history it was nowhere to be
found in mainstream media coverage
whereas when the stand with Israel rally
happened between the 300,000 strong
Palestine rally and the 400,000 strong
Palestine rally there was a stand with
Israel rally where Congress men were
were bust uh from Congress to speak at
that rally uh Democrats and Republicans
and high profile celebrities and it was
you know live streamed uh across
multiple places I mean I have to say
this the
icj if that wasn't the greatest display
of media bias
in in in the domain of United States
mainstream media then I don't know what
is they live streamed the Israeli
defense on multiple an news
outlets defending itself against the
case for genocide and completely omitted
the South
African presentation of the crimes of
Israel the day before so what I remember
first in foremost about the protests is
that they were nowhere to be found on
mainstream media which was expected but
what I also remember from the actual day
of and from all of the pro Palestine
rallies is that I have never seen a more
multifaith more diverse group of people
consistently coming out for Palestine
against the genocide in Gaza that I have
this time around and I think that has
been the experience all around there has
been a pronounced Jewish presence Jewish
voice for peace if not now other
anti-zionist Jewish groups groups that
are against the genocide against the
occupation former Israeli soldiers even
um you know that have been showing up at
these protests there has been a
pronounced presence um uh from Native
American groups indigenous groups all
across the board right Christians Jews
Muslims I've never seen more diversity
at these rallies than I've seen this
time around which I think is a sign of
where things are going and if you look
at the under 35 opinion polls it's very
clear that there's a generational Gap
here here that the country is moving
into uh a more coherent Direction and
understanding what has been happening
over there and people from all
backgrounds are standing up to it now
what do you think about the protest on
campus against Israel every protest I've
been
to has had the exact same tender has had
the exact same messaging but you always
have that idiot or two that shows up
with a sign
and no one knows who that idiot is
ironically never comes with anybody else
always shows up somehow in the middle of
the protest and puts up a sign that says
something completely contrary to the
messaging of the protest and and all the
cameras shift towards that guy I see it
every single time but the
overwhelming tenor of all of these
protests has been consistent it's been
calling for Freedom it's been calling
for Liberation it's been calling for an
end to the to the genocide a ceasefire
and end to the occupation and end to the
apartheid I will tell you what many
people are not seeing Columbia
University to IDF soldiers former IDF
soldiers spraying Palestinian protesters
with skunk water which is what the IDF
uses on Palestinian protesters and
sometimes on worshippers on their way to
ma
AA uh which has multiple uh Health
repercussions
and so I was reading about how one of
the students that was sprayed on campus
at Columbia Palestinian
student you know has showered at this
point of us doing this podcast 11 times
cannot get the smell out of her has
suffered all sorts of health issues as a
result of being sprayed again people are
not seeing the other side here people
are not seeing what we've had to deal
with at these protests right the open
bigotry and I want you to think about
this by the way people go and serve in
the IDF and then come back to the United
States or the United Kingdom and they're
not stigmatized for participating in
apartheid policies or participating in a
genocide how am I supposed to feel as a
Palestinian knowing that this guy right
next to me participated in murdering my
relatives in Gaza right and has open
Reign to say what he wants to say or do
what he wants to do and so we haven't
seen the other side of that as well but
i' I'd recommend to anyone that's uh
talking about you know Pro Palestine
protest to actually go see one if you go
to the protests you listen to what's
being said you don't just capture I mean
you got 400,000 people uh don't just go
try to find you're going to find four
stupid people at 400 at a protest of
400,000 people right because the protest
scene is always messy but I think that
this is um a sign of the
outrage and the anger and the
frustration that many students have
about being silenced again in the media
and academic settings um professors are
losing their jobs students are having
their faces put on trucks being doxed uh
the Shady watch lists that get put out
I'm on a few of them as well and I just
don't care anymore right but you got
these Shady watch lists people are
losing their uh their jobs at law
firms uh they're losing all of their
future opportuni these young Palestinian
students because of something that they
they tweeted that's being taken out of
context 10 years ago right when they
were 17 years old it's ridiculous and so
I think that um you know we have to we
have to listen to the overwhelming
majority of voices of people that are
demonstrating for justice not
demonstrating against anyone but
demonstrating for people uh again
there's a large pronounced Jewish
presence at every single Pro Palestine
March in fact if you look at uh the
organizations the groups that have taken
over uh Capitol Hill and and you know
train stations it's been if not now not
not in our name never again means for
anyone right it's been Jewish groups
many Jewish anti-occupation groups that
have been at the Forefront and I think
that that's where we have to pay
attention to the beauty of how diverse
this movement or free Palestine has
actually been so the average sentiment
is
anti-occupation not
anti-semitic it's incredibly lazy
incredibly lazy to say that anti-zionism
or that anti-occupation is anti-Semitic
first and foremost the Palestinians are
a Semitic people that's number one
number two
um look I'm proud of my community my
community has stood against
anti-Semitism in this country the Muslim
Community has been at the Forefront of
condemning anti-Semitism we have stood
in front of synagogues we have stood
with the Jewish Community when the
Jewish Community is attacked this is
about occupation this is a story of a
colonial entity that has driven us out
of our homes and has done so in such a
way that has forced us to try to be the
voice of a people that are being
exterminated overseas right now this is
not an anti-Semitic movement this is a
pro Freedom Movement do you think the
protests ever go to too far the protest
scene is a messy scene and so again
you're going to have sometimes that odd
speaker or people get carried away in
their emotions and yes sometimes people
chant things or do things that are
contrary to the protests it's pretty
unfair when you judge the entire protest
Movement by some of these incidents that
have happened at protests and you don't
pay attention to what they're protesting
about in the first place which is a
genocide right now everything is
secondary to ending a genocide that is
ongoing in the course of this
discussion it's not an exaggeration to
say that at least 30 40 people would
have been killed just over the last few
hours because we're averaging 135 to 150
a day
so everything else is secondary to that
this is where we all need to be right
now as people of conscience how do we
stop this because every single day is
deeply costly do you think there has
been a rise of anti-Semitism and
anti-muslim hate in the US yeah I think
that's factual look anti-Semitism is
always to be condemned it's wrong it's
uh something that as a Muslim Community
and as people of conscience we have
always taken a stand against Jewish
people should not be attacked for being
Jewish people here or anywhere else
synagogue should be protected and if a
person is attacked for being Jewish uh
we will be the first to go and to stand
with them and to reject uh that attack
on them um and there has been as I said
an inspiring pronounced Jewish presence
in the movement to end the
occupation and so we're being morally
consistent here as far as the rise in
islamophobia it is felt it's
underreported and it is
uh you know part of the same
framing that has led to the devastation
of our people overseas so there's a rise
in islamophobia there's a rise in
anti-Semitism there's a rise in hatred
all of that is true but there's also an
ongoing genocide and that should be our
priority right now
T I think we spoke last time about a
year
ago how is your view on um Benjamin
Netanyahu evolve over time Benjamin
Netanyahu has committed himself to the
Eraser of Palestinian people and
Palestinian symbols and Palestinian Land
from the very beginning of his political
career this is who he has been we just
haven't been listening to him he
campaigned on bigotry and racism and on
the promise that there would never be a
Palestinian State he campaigned on the
promise that Gaza would be wiped out he
campaigned by saying the Arabs are
rushing to the polls we need to make
sure that they don't infect our policy
he has always been this person this has
always been his policy he has always
indicated that genocide and ethnic
cleansing is where he wants to go so uh
he's simply manifesting what his message
has always been and anyone that ignores
that is being disingenuous you can find
statements from Benjamin Netanyahu in
the80s 0s 90s 2000s you can find him
talking about this prior to October 7th
and after October 7th he's definitely
doing this now to save his political
career I think he wants to drive this as
long as he possibly can because he knows
that his days in office are numbered but
let's also ask
ourselves why is it that Benjamin
Netanyahu was able to rise to power in
the first place right there is something
deeply troubling about the fact that his
messaging ever resonated
and what the prospects are uh for for
peace if Benjamin Netanyahu is able to
rise with such pronounced hateful
messaging so the claim that security of
Israel is the primary concern is you're
saying a um dishonest claim I think he's
trying to secure his seat in office he
knows his days are numbered this is not
about Israel this isn't about the
hostages for him this isn't about
anything but Benjamin Netanyahu he is is
a narcissist he's a tyrant um he is
despised uh around the world and uh I
think even amongst Israelis uh I think
there's a deatri for him I think the
hostages families know that he doesn't
care about the families uh or about the
hostages but he's driving a political
agenda that doesn't care about people um
not Palestinian people or otherwise
however the problem of the occupation is
not Benjamin Netanyahu the problem of
the occupation is the occupation uh y
leid was uh the progressive moderate
alternative and uh he drove just as
bigoted of an agenda against the
Palestinian people as possible so to the
Palestinian that's living in Gaza or the
Palestinian in the West Bank whoever is
sitting in that seat has meant the exact
same thing to them but Benjamin
Netanyahu is certainly I think the
loudest bigot that we have seen um you
know in that
seat do you think Israel has the right
to defend its borders I think Israel has
a responsibility to protect those that
it occupies I think you have to ask that
question differently um you know n
arat uh wrote uh a tremendous article on
this from a legal perspective you know
when you talk about Israel defending
itself
um Israel is bound to occupation law
this is the problem all along you know
when when when John kery said of course
the US is great sometimes at issuing
inconsequential statements that Israel
has to choose whether or not it wants to
be a Jewish or a Democratic State be a
Jewish or a Democratic state but it
can't be both um Israel wants to occupy
and deny and at the same time not be
held to the standards of being an
occupier but be treated as if it's some
normal uh State uh those borders were
drawn across occupied land and have been
expanding into Palestinian territory and
people have been thrown out of their
homes systematically and transgressed
upon even to the in the places that they
fled to which is Gaza right so when you
talk about Israel having a right to
defend itself you should be talking
about Israel's duty to protect everyone
under its occupation either lift the
occupation or protect everyone under
your occupation uh where are your
borders right what what is uh your
responsibility who are you protecting
and I think that it speaks to the fact
that Israeli policy considers
Palestinians to be animals they say as
much and they do as much I've spoken
about James Baldwin um and James Baldwin
talked about this Pious silence
surrounding Israel that we're supposed
to
pretend uh like it's just another state
uh you know and and ignore how it came
into being and what it functions as and
I think that Pious Silence has to be
broken you know I I remember uh John
Stewart when he had the Daily Show
several years ago and he talked about
this uh policy of uh you know we have to
defend ourselves and if if someone was
attacking your home what would you do
and uh the response was well why are you
forcing people into a closet so you
force people into this desperate
situation you you drive them out of
their homes claim their homes and then
say that you're defending yourself
against them the default is that an
occupy people have a right to defend
themselves the occupier is obligated to
those that they
occupy can you speak to this term
occupation in
Gaza because the people that say it is
not an occupation say that Israeli
troops have been pulled out from there
before October 7th for many years yeah
and to you it still is a de facto
occupation Israel doesn't get to to set
the terms and then Define them uh it is
an occupation according to any uh legal
standard international legal standard
Israel controls the movement of everyone
in Gaza it controls the air and the Seas
uh it controls the ability to import or
export the people that live in Gaza and
the people that live in the West Bank
the
Palestinians have had their identity
stolen from them so there's the freedom
of movement there is the freedom of
thriving there is self-determination all
of that has been stolen from the people
of Gaza there's no airport in Gaza that
was destroyed by Israel as well uh it is
an occupation uh at at at every level
and by any meaningful legal
determination what do you think about
Yemen's houti Rebels attacking Israel in
response to October 7th and then the
United States and the
UK um initiating bombing of multiple
Targets in Yemen in response to that
yeah I think that it's clear that the
United States cares more about its
shipping lanes than it does about
Palestinian lives and that actually has
proved it uh look I do not support the
houthis as
houthis or their policies in general um
but if you look at what has transpired
and what they have said they're
attacking
these ships in response to the
occupation uh or in response to the
genocide and saying that they will
continue to do so to stop business as
usual until a ceasefire is reached they
have not killed anyone right they have
seized ships they have blocked the lanes
but they have said that if a ceasefire
happens they will cease their activity
so instead of the United States trying
to get a ceasefire through the United
States decided let's go bomb Yemen too
you know let's let's spend more money on
weapons and killing innocent people
which shows you exactly where our policy
uh always leads itself to unfortunately
so uh I think that most reasonable
people would say that the problem is not
with uh Yemen Rebels attacking ships the
problem is with Israel attacking
innocent Palestinian lives you mentioned
paying respect next to the uh Legacy of
ebj Eddie Bernice Johnson and um
remembering Palestinian child prisoners
can you
explain so congresswoman Eddie Bernice
Johnson was one of the few co-sponsors
of a bill that has been on the floor of
Congress for years uh initially
sponsored by congresswoman Betty
McCullum to penalize Israel for its
Detention of child prisoners thousands
of children arbitrarily detained put in
military courts solitary confinement and
yes sexual violence that's been
documented by human rights organizations
against them and there have been no
repercussions so I want you to think
about this you know just the thought of
conditioning Aid to Israel you know so
that it doesn't indiscriminately bomb
entire
populations has not been able to find
any home in mainstream Amica Amer
politics for
years just trying to stop Israel from
picking up children and throwing them
into military prisons where they
disappear for decades at times has not
found any thrust in mainstream American
politics whereas any resolution that is
pro-israel will make it past both
Chambers relatively
quickly when people talk about Israeli
hostages and then then talk about
Palestinian prisoners there's already a
problem with that
framing first of all all 2.2 million
people in Gaza are hostages every
Palestinian that lives under occupation
is a hostage but all of those prisoners
that have been picked up women children
innocent people with absolutely no
process of making sure that they're
treated right or given uh Fair trials or
even given a communication line with
their families or with any government to
help them is absolutely criminal all of
those prisoners are also
hostages and when you when you when you
already propose this idea that there are
Israeli hostages and Palestinian
prisoners you're already implying that
one group is
complicit in their own Devastation
whereas another group has had
Devastation visited upon them in
entirely out of their own doing and so
it's important for people to learn about
children prisoners who are indeed
hostages to an apartheid
system and even what happened during
that 4-day
truce which all of us hoped would be
extended and become permanent where 150
Palestinian prisoners were released
Israel just went and picked up another
135 in the West Bank and threw them in
prisons that's what I mean when I say
you're not addressing the root of the
problem the root of the problem is the
occupation the root of the problem is
the apartheid the root of the problem is
the desperation that then drives the
creation of all sorts of
circumstances that will only further
lead to the devastation of everyone
right if you don't solve that problem
and at the root of that problem is the
dehumanization of the Palestinian
because no one is Raising alarms for
those Palestinian hostages in Israeli
military prisons no one's putting up
their pictures and no one's talking
about who they are and their human
stories and the violence that's been wre
against them at every level so if you
don't solve not just the root of
occupation but also the dehumanization
that drives the occupation which is
unfortunately so pervasive right now in
the discourse then you're going to
continue to have this Gap and how the
world sees the plight of the
Palestinians
and how unfortunately the American
public uh sees the problem of the
Palestinians and to you big peace
agreements like uh of the like of
Abraham Accords should include Palestine
Abraham Accords is nothing but an
agreement in which you slap the name of
Abraham on arms deals in exchange for
countries being able to undertake their
own Unholy Pursuits they use one of the
holiest names in history and continue to
erase the main victims of this atrocity
and so the Abraham Accords are an insult
to humanity an insult to the
Palestinians and an insult to the name
of
Abraham but do you think something like
that agreements of that nature of that
scale could be made that include the
Palestinian people and that would
actually have make progress if they're
honest to the plight of the Palestinians
if they are honest to the roots of the
problem absolutely look again peace is
sought but peace cannot be used to
silence the entire peace
process has you know been been hung over
the Palestinians all these years while
settlements continue to expand and their
situation only continue to get
worse is Israel really going to remove
the 700,000 800 ,000 settlers right and
uh suddenly change its tune on a
two-state solution Benjamin Netanyahu is
saying right now and he's speaking to
unfortunately what is clearly a majority
of the Israeli public that there will
never be a Palestinian state so these
peace talks cannot be used to suffocate
all of the work of justice and bringing
Israel to accountability the world has
to act when they see apartheid the world
has to act when they see occupation if
the world fails to bring Israel to a
place of ACC
accountability then a few countries that
have their own agendas cannot put forth
anything meaningful for the victims of
Israel being the Palestinian people
there's a lot of questions I want to ask
you
about the nature of resistance and what
is the proper way to resist what is the
Practical pragmatic effective ways of
resisting thing so one example that is
often brought up is the difference
between MLK and Malcolm X One emphasized
nonviolent resistance the other
emphasized any means necessary
resistance um which do you side with in
general and in this
particular case of what has happened
over the past 100 plus days so in
general that framing relies on on a
sanitization of Dr Martin Luther King Jr
and a vilification of Malcolm X that a
lot of people do put forth and present
as two Polar Opposites and how they
approach um the plight of black people
in America and and resisting uh racism
here in America uh when I taught a
course at at Southern Methodist
University on MLK and Malcolm X and
Islam and the Civil Rights Movement what
I'd often do is I'd give my
students a set of quotes and I would say
assigned this to Malcolm or Martin and
they'd always get it wrong right so you
can find uh you know quotes from MLK and
breaking the silence and especially when
he took a stand against the Vietnam War
uh that sounds so radical you know when
you compare them to the the image of MLK
and Malcolm is of course turned into
this militant angry uh Muslim uh who
just wanted violence and was uh seeking
uh chaos here in the United States
so let's be clear about something here
that
Malcolm never himself was part of any
violence Malcolm never did anything
violent Malcolm found it hypocritical to
commit the oppressed people to
nonviolence while not restraining the
oppressor from its
violence and I agree with Malcolm it is
absolutely hypocritical to focus your
attention and your energy on the
oppressed people and committing them to
nonviolence
while not directing your attention to
the oppressor when you have such a
symmetry when you have a clear aggressor
and aggressed upon you have a clear
Colonial entity and a clear colonized
people you focus your energy on
restraining the colonial power you focus
your energy on restraining the oppressor
not the oppressed and so that was
Malcolm's point and it's clear in his
messaging uh throughout his religious
growth because of course Malcolm did
evolve uh as a person but Malcolm found
it deeply hypocritical to commit the
oppressed to nonviolence Malcolm also
had a
deep understanding of the way that
brutality here State violence in the
United States was connected to it State
violence abroad and American imperialism
as a whole Malcolm was the first to
speak on Vietnam the first major
African-American leader to speak on
Vietnam Martin followed Malcolm also
went to Gaza in 19 64 1964 went to Khan
yunas which is now under heavy
bombardment and Malcolm Penn an essay on
Zionism and connected Zionism to
American imperialism and the broader
implications of America's foreign policy
so Martin and
Malcolm if you look at them in the
capacity of what's happening right
now where I would say you can find
something that is deeply profound Jame
con wrote a book uh called Malcolm and
Martin Dreams and
Nightmares and he wrote something
profound to the effect that Martin tried
to liberate white people from their own
racism whereas Malcolm tried to liberate
black people from the effects of that
racism on them and so they both played a
deeply important role
self-determination is crucial to
maintain the fuel of a movement and I
think one of the things that probably
deeply frustrates those that have sought
the Eraser of Palestine is that
Palestinian Consciousness has only
continued to grow after 75 years
Palestinians in diaspora and
Palestinians within occupied territory
all are deeply rooted in their
Palestinian identity and existence and
they're not going away so I think that
that's where the the function is
important of this whereas those that are
complicit in the oppression need to be
liberated
from their own oppression you know and
liberated from what they're
participating in most Americans that I
talk
to that have absolutely no idea about
what's going on when they come to hear
just a few stories of the plight of the
Palestinian people and the types of
brutality that we have
encountered wake up to this and say oh
my God this is what my tax dollars go to
this is what I'm a part of right so we
have to liberate people across the board
from being oppressors or from being
oppressed what do you think about the
seeming fact that majority of
Palestinians support the October 7th
attacks you have to see the world their
world through their eyes you can't try
to see their world through your
eyes if you live under
occupation you're routinely
harassed at Israeli
checkpoints the occupation is expanding
into your territory you're meeting
families you know regularly that have
been thrown out of their homes and that
are looking for a new place in the
shrinking territory you deal with
routine air strikes you have no way to
get out you have no way to grow you
don't even have a passport your
education is subpar your standards of
living are lower than the rest of the
world and all you hear from the other
side which do dominates the discourse
and dominates every element of your
existence are Promises of eraser of
complete
eraser 13,000 people I mentioned
13,000 new settlement units being
Advanced if that happened anywhere right
just think about what that means right
when you clear out a village or
two and it's not that big of a territory
right when you know that that's
happening and when you have been
subjected to
that anyone that claims to be supporting
you or uplifting you from that state of
misery is going to have sympathy whether
you agree with their mission or their
methods or not it's human it is human
that if anyone says that they are going
to get you out of this misery and
inflict pain on those who have given you
a life of pain and promised you a future
of pain you're going to have sympathy to
that group whether you agree with them
or not I think that the question also
has to be
asked what about the Israeli public
Israel holds all of the power in that
region holds all of the power over that
territory is able to dominate the
expansion of its own territory and
diminish any Palestinian territory is
able to PR Place restrictions whenever
at once on Palestinian movement trying
to get to their holy sites or otherwise
whether it's m AA or the holy supper of
the church of nativity
right the majority of the Israeli
public before October 7th
unfortunately according to all polls
favors a non-democratic regime the end
of a two-state
solution does not care about the plight
of Palestinian people the majority of
the Israeli public why is that and what
is that mean for Palestinians right
especially now after this genocide the
vast majority majority of the Israeli
public does not favor a ceasefire
right what are we supposed to do when we
see mainstream media coming out of
Israel pop culture uh Tik Tock videos
that only speak to a greater desire to
eliminate the Palestinian people right
so anyone that says that they are going
to support your plight whether you agree
with their mission or their methods is
going to resonate with that child that
has grown up in those desperate
circumstances you know basam YF had an
interview with Pierce Morgan and he was
talking about this I mean just he he
literally gave it a human a human story
if you're a child that's grown up you've
lost limbs your parents are dead Your
Friends Are Dead you have been made a
refugee two or three times
already you have no future in
sight and then someone comes to you and
says I'm going to help you and I'm gonna
fight back on your behalf of course it's
going to resonate it's human right and
so I think that it's important for us to
see the world through their eyes rather
than try to see the world through our
eyes so as Malcolm X did you're calling
for highlighting the asymmetry in
violence and asymmetry in moral
reasoning
absolutely it's important you're not
going to be able to solve this problem
unless you're able to do that and so
when when Malcolm said uh that if you
stick a knife 9 in into my back and pull
it out 6
in that's not progress progress is
healing the wound and you're not even
willing to acknowledge that the knife is
there yet those that don't acknowledge
what is determined Now by any uh
international human rights organization
even Israel human rights
organization uh bet Islam and others to
be apartheid a state of partied in a
state of occupation and now an unfolding
genocide
um you know are are not Partners For
Peace it just hurts me to
think how long it takes to
heal even if the Healing Begins now with
a
knife
metaphor it's just going to be
Generations because people don't forget
when your father and mother were
murdered or somebody that you know in
your family was killed they don't
forget
look I think the point is is that we
have to come to terms with the fact
that the trauma of the
past does not justify the murder of the
present and the fear of the future does
not justify the murder of the present
the urgency of the world right now
should be entirely focused on ending
this atrocity that unfortunately the
world has become so complacent with
again prior to October 7th this status
quo was not acceptable and there was no
means in sight in the global Arena to re
this in to make Israel more accountable
to stop
this I do believe
in the power of healing I do believe in
the power of growth I I do believe that
we have seen ugly episodes of History
before that have been rectified I also
believe in the heart of my people I
believe that the Palestinian People Are
People of resistance they're people of
resilience they're people of courage and
they are people of benevolence and
magnam minity and there are people who
have been made to grow under the worst
of
circumstances I don't see in in the
hearts of young Palestinians that have
been tormented I don't see
Darkness I see light I see the ability
to still laugh and find Joy despite
everything that's
happened and so I think that the urgency
right now just has to be towards
ensuring that they have a life that
they're not being
anymore I was wondering if you can
comment on
a idea and notion that comes up often in
conversations about
this of why can't other nations in the
region take in uh Palestinian refugees
so I think that we have to tackle what's
implied by that at multiple levels and I
actually want to walk back you know I I
was listening to Nikki Haley
when she uh said in one of her
interviews you know and why is it that
you think no one wants to take the
Palestinians in and she had like this
deeply uh disturbing laugh to it uh or
Ben Shapiro when he uh said uh Israelis
like to build and Arabs like to bomb
crap and live in their sewage uh or um
you know why is it that no one wants to
govern the Palestinians suggesting that
Palestinians are ungovernable and uh
not fit to bring into your countries and
that's why they're being turned away you
know who else faced that bigotry Jews
trying to escape the Holocaust
1939 300,000 Germans applied for Refuge
here in the United States I think only
about
10,000 uh were allowed in and uh we also
turned away ships of Jews that were
seeking Refuge here in the United States
on what B basis that they were a
national security
threat and could not be trusted they
could not be taken
in that's the same bigotry that's
driving this and I want you to think
about it you know from that perspective
How Deeply offensive that is when you
have millions of Palestinians in
diaspora where have Palestinians caused
trouble where they've gone everywhere
Palestinians are they have overcome
significant hurdles to become
scientists and
doctors and to grow themselves and to
grow the places that they're in we have
Palestinians that have been displaced
all over the world caused issues for
people right so it's both racist and
factually
incorrect that's not the right question
that should be asked the question that
should be asked are why are these people
driven from their homes not why won't
other people around them open their
homes to them and so I'll I'll just
share with you that even on a personal
level you know it's it's really
interesting because uh uh sometimes on
on Twitter or wherever it is it'll be
like go back home right why don't you go
back home and I'm sitting there thinking
to myself like
sure you know my parents were driven
from their homes yeah sure I was born in
this country as a consequence of bad
policy now I embrace my complic at
identity in that regard and I hope to be
productive as an American but I am a
Palestinian and Palestinians in diaspora
that have been fortunate enough to have
the ability uh to build and to overcome
circumstances should not be an excuse
for eliminating the Palestinians that
remain in their homes under that that
torment so uh this bigotry is not new um
unfortunately its manifestation is ugly
and um you know we have to push back on
it whenever it shows itself no matter
who it's being spoken
about how difficult has it been for
people in Gaza to
flee I mean they're blockaded from all
directions there is nowhere for people
in Gaza to go they cannot get out and um
you know the reality is is that they
don't want to leave they do not want to
leave the Palestinian people want to to
live in their land in their
homes and to continue to produce you
know uh an extension of the beautiful
culture and Legacy that was handed to
them they don't want to leave in fact
those that have fled for whatever reason
or have been able to get out for medical
treatment or because they have some sort
of citizenship and other countries all
they're talking about is going back and
rebuilding you can't bomb Palestine out
of our hearts you cannot starve
Palestine out of our hearts I think
that's a critical mistake that Israel is
making and it thinks that if it destroys
Gaza enough if it wipes out all the
buildings that people will never want to
come back we don't want to go anywhere
as a Palestinian people you know in a
way that would remove us from our homes
the Palestinian people are proud people
yeah you've met a lot of them right when
you sat with uh Muhammad Al Kor people
in East Jerusalem what those people have
been subjected to you know the
harassment like think about the the the
tenacity and the character that it takes
to still try to walk back into your home
after an intruder has been brought in by
the state that sitting in your living
room that is pushing you around and
you're saying I'm not leaving my home
this is literally what's been happening
in East
Jerusalem and we're not going anywhere I
think those of us that are in diaspora
Palestine is not leaving our hearts and
those of us that are still there are not
leaving their land and the world has to
make the occupier more accountable not
tell the occupied how to
cope do you ever imagine that if your
family did not flee and you were now
living
in in say in
Gaza what you would be
doing I think
about what could have been all the
time you know I actually mentioned this
in the first uh DC
protest that I remember getting a
notification a news
notification um just prior to
October with my name in it you know so I
always get these notifications right if
my name's been mentioned in article
and so oh your name's mentioned in an
article and it was a 16-year-old omaran
who was murdered in the West
Bank he literally had my name I held up
his picture and I realized that could
have been me so I think of why God chose
me to not be
there and hopefully him
choosing all of us that are not there to
be for those that are still there to be
their
voices I'm grateful and I'm also in pain
I'm grateful for the
opportunity to be able to speak on their
behalf but I'm also guilty that they
have to bear the brunt of this evil
hatred that unfortunately displaced our
parents in the first
place you mentioned that Palestinians
invoke the plight of indigenous people
like Native
Americans what works and doesn't work
about this analogy so I think that
there's a powerful connection between
the Palestinian people and the
indigenous and this land and in other
places um that have been
wronged uh we are living here in the
United States on Stolen lands that is
drenched in the blood of the
natives and that was built upon uh with
the Blood Sweat and labor of enslaved
Africans that were brought from
overseas so
great evil that we have to reckon with
constantly and so I think that's the
power of solidarity and you know if you
look in Canada and you look in places
like
Australia uh there has been a refocus on
the crimes against the indigenous of
those places I think that what
makes the Palestinian plight
um deeply painful and maybe where the
analogy uh even doesn't do J
Justice is that from the river to the
sea is less than 500 times what the
United States is in terms of land it's
not that big of a piece of land and so
the original lie
was a land without a people for a people
without a land and the problem was that
there were people on that land that were
forcibly removed so I think that the
sheer size right we're talking about a
tiny piece of land and a lot of people
that were uh removed uh forcefully from
their land and uh that continue to be
brutalized under those miserable
conditions why is
Palestine a special place a holy
land it's the land of prophets it is uh
a land that holds deep significance
obviously to uh Jews Christians and
Muslims it's the land of Abraham peace
be upon him it is the land that has such
a rich history to it that connects
multiple peoples in multiple ways it's
precious I think that
history while it tells the story of
tragedy and and and struggle over that
piece of land also tells a beautiful
story of
sanctity so you mentioned Abraham
prophets uh Prophet Muhammad is deeply
venerated in Islam obviously but other
prophets are as well Jesus being one of
them um what are the similarities and
differences in the teachings from
these two
prophets well Islam refers to this idea
of submission to one God and attaining
peace in the process and refers to the
way of
life that prophets have all come with
which is this idea of
monotheism and serving that one God in
the way that he commands you to serve
him uh so to us uh as it says in the
Quran that we do not distinguish between
the prophets all the prophets came with
one message One mission uh there's a
coherence in the Creed there's a beauty
in the foundation of what would become
the legislation of each of those
prophets and we see them all as siblings
in prophethood
and so we say Abraham peace be upon him
we say Jesus peace be upon him we say
Moses peace be upon him we say Muhammad
peace be upon him we believe that Moses
came to confirm what came from Abraham
Jesus came to confirm what came from
Moses Muhammad came to confirm what came
from Jesus they upheld the same message
God did not change over time uh nor did
the centrality of his message of
monotheism change over time and so uh to
us it's one beautiful house uh uh
there's a saying from the prophet
Muhammad peace be upon him where he
describes the house of prophethood each
Prophet being a brick and him simply
being the last brick of a beautiful
house and so we love the prophets of God
and we believe that they each came with
the legislation that was necessary for
the time but with the same
message so the messages fundamentally
the same is there a difference in
emphasis for example the emphasis on
Love With Jesus yeah yeah you know this
is it's like when you talk about MLK and
Malcolm to an extent ex except there was
actually some difference right between
MLK and Malcolm yes uh you know I just
think that the difference is exaggerated
between them but um I I don't think that
Moses didn't emphasize love but Jesus
emphasized love and then Muhammad didn't
emphasize love peace be upon them all I
think that they each
emphasized um the the same attributes
and and names of God and and ways of
knowing god
uh but there were of course changes
within legislation changes within uh the
Divine Law but the Divine Spirit uh
remain the same and so I don't I don't
see them as being counter uh to each
other uh nor do I see that any Prophet
um betrayed the message that came before
them I think they're all part of the
same beautiful
message that we have to be at Harmony
with our creator and that we turn
towards him for our guidance
and that when we do so uh we establish
uh a greater uh a greater existence here
on Earth and so I think that that's
something that's consistent throughout
the message of all the prophets you have
been longtime friends with and had
amazing conversations with people of
other
faiths
Christian
Jewish how has uh the events of October
7th and the days after affected this in
the United States your ability to have
Interfaith
conversations connections relationships
friendships complicated very
complicated um and it's not just Muslims
and Jews it's also Christian Zionist uh
Christian Zionism is at the root of the
problem in my opinion especially when we
talk about what drives uh America's
unshakable unconditional commitment to
to Israel
um it's
devastating I think to Palestinian
Christians in
particular when Israel can bomb some of
the oldest churches of Christianity in
Gaza and kill Palestinian Christians and
Palestinian Christians are barred from
going to the holy supper or to their
places of worship in Bethlehem or
Jerusalem and Christians here in the
United States turn their back on them I
think that it is particularly outrageous
so it's complic at um look I I I expect
more from people in the face of a
genocide we don't have to agree on all
the
particulars but we can agree that what
is happening is morally outrageous and
so I think that
um I've had a few people that have
reached out and said I want to say
something but I
can't and I've had to respond with
that's not good enough so I think that
we have a we have a problem and instead
of focusing on that problem I'd like to
focus on the more morally consistent
voices across Fates that have risen to
the moment rather than those that have
failed so you wish more rabbis would be
able to have a conversation like we're
having
today and
also not allow it to be
seen as them turning their back on their
religion rabbis pastors um
again it's not just you know Jewish
leadership it's also Christian
leadership I think that it's important
for those that have claimed to be allies
in the fight against islamophobia to see
that you cannot be opposed to
islamophobia while also extending
anti-palestinian
bigotry yeah one of the things since we
last spoke I got to me a lot of
Palestinian
Christians including in West Bank and
that was fascinating and those are
beautiful people I I think people should
watch Reverend unus Hawk's uh sermon on
Christmas Jesus in the
reubel it was deeply profound you know I
I had a chance to speak to Mitri rahb uh
from the Lutheran Church there as
well no they're devastated you know I it
was eye opening to many people here when
when Justin Amish who was a republican
Congressman right Palestinian Christian
Republican Congressman posted about his
own family dying in one of the church
bombings uh so it's it's strange strange
times and I think that it shows that the
philosophy of hate that
drives this terrible policy uh is
secular at its root and not
religious one of the
criticisms of
Islam points to specific verses of the
Quran and the criticism being that it is
not a religion of Peace can you speak to
that so objectively speaking if you were
to take the verses of the Quran about
violence and compare them just from a
purely percentage based comparison to
the New Testament and the Old Testament
you would find less verses about war in
the Quran than the Old Testament or the
New Testament and there are plenty of
studies to speak to that deeper than
that contextualizing the birth of Islam
the revelation of the Quran which was
over 23
years in response to deep persecution of
the Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him
makes it very clear that none of those
verses are what they've been made out to
be if Muslims believed that they had to
kill people wherever they are uh mankind
would not exist there are two billion of
us right if if we believe that we were
called by the Quran to hurt people and
to kill people uh simply for being
non-believers right it
would not make for a sustainable world
so Islam is not violent and I think that
the history of Muslims also Bears
witness to that the history of Islam is
a history of contribution is a history
of building is a history of medicine and
science and
math and of course Muslims have
sometimes times fallen short of Islamic
standards in the past and in the present
but if you look at the overall history
of Islam and the history of the Muslim
Community that's not the case and when
you look at the
present you know uh Muslim Community
around the world Muslims do not account
for a greater proportion of violence
than other Faith communities and again
the word terrorist uh is a functionless
and meaningless word because uh to me it
no less violent if it's commanded by a
head of state or by a
government uh than by a non-state actor
so Muslims do not account for a greater
portion of violence now nor have they
accounted for a greater portion of
violence in the past why do you think
these narratives have taken hold in
present discourse at least in in the
United States because they allow for
greater violence against the Muslim
Community domestically and abroad the
United States has launched Wars against
primarily Muslim countries right and has
a particularly violent foreign policy
towards the Muslim world and the Muslim
Community here in the United States has
dealt with unfortunately multiple
aggressive
iterations of programs of suppression
and surveillance under Republican and
Democratic administrations and so
there's a convenience to that
islamophobia there's a convenience to
that framing of the Muslim Community
that also distracts from other forms of
violence that are deeply pervasive and
present including the ones that are
committed by the government
itself if it's okay you've mentioned the
alaxa mosque a couple of times I would
love it if you can describe why it is
such an important
place a holy place for Muslims in
general but also for this particular
crisis that we have been speaking about
today so Muslims honor the history of
all of the prophets right so all of the
prophets that have walked in that place
all the prophets that have worshiped in
that place all of that makes it sacred
right so it's not separated for Muslims
from uh you know post Muhammad peace be
upon Him versus prior to Muhammad peace
be upon him in terms of the sanctity of
that place so we honor it and UHA in
particular is the place where the
Prophet Muhammad peace be upon Him leads
the other prophets in prayer in the
night of what's known as the night
journey of the Prophet peace be upon him
and then he ascends to the heavens and
back and it's also the first which is
the first uh place of direction of
prayer for us so before Muslims faced
Mecca in prayer for the first half of
Islam they actually faced towards
Jerusalem in their prayer it was our
direction of prayer and it remained a
fundamental part of our faith uh
fundamental holy Sanctuary there are
three sanctuaries in Islam Mecca Medina
and Jerusalem and M AA is precious to us
and so you can imagine then the pain of
watching you know innocent Palestinian
worshippers being stomped on by Israeli
soldiers or skunk water being sprayed on
people as they're trying to walk in or
uh you know tear gassing taking place in
the nights of Ramadan uh in that place
the restrictions on people that live
right next to it and that cannot pray in
it uh due to the certain classification
of Palestinian that they've been given
or the age right because uh generally
speaking if you're younger you're not
allowed to go to Mas AA uh even if you
live within the occupied territories so
it's it's tough to watch such a sacred
place with such an ugly
occupation but I'll also say this that
the sanctity of a human being the
sanctity of just one person is greater
than the sanctity of any place of
worship to us so the sanctity of one
individual in Gaza or one individual in
Jerusalem is greater to us than the
sanctity of a place of worship but it is
all certainly interconnected that's a
really powerful idea the value of a
human
being is greater than even the alox of
musque so that that's a foundational
idea for Islam the prophet Muhammad
peace be upon him uh says to to the Caba
itself that the value
of a believer's dignity and honor is
greater than the value of the structure
itself and so when I
see a person in Gaza aggressed upon when
I see one when I see one child that's
greater to me than even ala but Al is at
the heart of who we are uh as well and
it's certainly at the heart of uh the
Palestinian cause it's a place of
prophets and it's a place that should be
treated
prophetically you mentioned to me that
since October 7th a lot of young people
in the United States and in general have
been showing interest in
Islam first of all can you explain what
you've been seeing and experiencing uh
in terms of that Trend yeah we have
Quran Tik Tock Trends uh where you had a
few people that went on camera and said
you know I'm reading the Quran for the
first time and I think that
that's the beauty of the faith of the
people of Gaza the beauty of their
resilience you know when you're looking
at these people living what's hell on
Earth but they're seeking Paradise
outside and they're able to still be
inspired towards words of of faith and
determination and certainty you're like
what is their secret right what are they
reading what are they on that allows
them uh to still face this brutality
with such Grace right I mean they're not
shouting profanities they're not
shouting um you know words of emptiness
or despair but rather they are pouring
out their hearts that are full of faith
for the world to see and I think that a
lot of people have seen that and said
what is that and so um you know we've
had multiple people come to the mosque
I've never seen more people um become
Muslim in my life but not just that an
appreciation for Islam like what type of
an engineering is there you know that
that allows for people to have that type
of Faith uh so people are opening the
Quran for the first time people are
asking questions about Islam and a way
that shows that they're inspired uh even
though they're heartbroken by what
they're seeing what's a good way to get
introduced to Islam the the faith the
the spiritual experience of it
well I think look you go to uh you know
our websites you go to whyislam.org you
go to you come to yakin's website y.org
you go to multiple Islamic
websites to get those questions answered
but there's nothing like going to a
mosque there's nothing like actually
going to a mosque and meeting Muslims
and asking
questions and I tell people like you
have to step out of your comfort zone
and go there and let your world be
complicated a bit experience it listen
to the sermon meet people from different
backgrounds and ask questions Muslims
love to be asked by the way about their
faith because they're so sick of hearing
other people talk about it so Muslims
love to be asked about their faith
Palestinians love to be asked about
Palestine because they're so sick of
other people talking about it so uh ask
questions and uh you will have them
answered but there's nothing like a
physical connection there's nothing like
a human connection so definitely try to
reach out to your local Islamic
organizations and meet people how
difficult is it to convert to Islam
takes 20 seconds
man okay what's what's involved simple
enough you you you you you testify to
the one there's no pool there's no
baptism like I I often joke with people
I'm like all right we got the pool in
the back we're going to do the baptism
now um you know uh it's it's literally
um testifying to the Oneness of God and
testifying that Muhammad uh is his final
messenger and so that's called the
shahada and when you testify to the
Oneness of God and to uh the prophet
Muhammad peace be upon him being his
final Prophet you are accepting what's
known as the six articles of Faith six
articles of Faith are belief in one God
belief in the Angels belief in The
Messengers so you can't be a Muslim
without believing in Jesus or Moses or
Abraham or Muhammad um to believe in the
messages that God has spoken to humanity
uh through divine revelation the Quran
being the the last uh Revelation to
believe in the day of judgment and to
believe in Divine decree and
predestination so those are six articles
of Faith so when you testify um to the
Oneness of God and to the prophet
Muhammad peace be upon him being the
final messenger that's called the
shahada you embrace the package of those
articles of Faith that's the implication
then you learn the prayers you learn to
fast in
Ramadan um you give what's known as zaka
the mandatory charity 2.5% of your
retained earnings and uh Hajj which is
the pilgrimage to Mecca if you can so
that's the growth part the journey um
you know once a person takes the
testimony they then grow uh it's really
interesting because we always have uh
those people that convert to Islam like
a week before Ramadan or even a day
before Ramadan so uh you're Muslim and
you got to fast the next day uh you know
and that's always a challenging
experience for people but a fulfilling
experience for many people um when they
Embrace Islam at that point and again I
mean it's
it's it's it's simple and I think that
the beauty of Islam to many people is in
its Simplicity one God one Humanity one
body of prophets um and uh one Community
because for
you as a Palestinian
American this year the
Ramadan perhaps would be especially
difficult spiritually what
um what are you anticipating what do you
think is the difference this
year
I hope I hope and pray that we have a
ceasefire before Ramadan I hope that at
that point we're rebuilding Gaza talking
about rebuilding
Gaza and helping
people um that have been damaged in so
many different ways I hope that Ramadan
is turning a
corner every Ramadan
um the aggression against the
Palestinian people seems to grow so
we're usually dealing with you know last
10 nights of Ramadan and then the
incursions on M AA really sour it um for
the entire Muslim world right because
you're watching worshippers being
assaulted in one of the holiest places
in the world and at the same time you're
trying to find your deep connection your
own deep Holy Connection right in
Ramadan this time we're going in and if
this is still
ongoing um we're dealing with
a continued genocide so I think that the
mood has been somber in the community
the mood has been uh different from
anything I've ever seen before so I
anticipate this Ramadan would be
different from anything we've ever seen
before I think the focus will continue
to be on
Gaza and on um either stopping the
aggression on Gaza or beginning the
rebuilding of
Gaza so General heaviness
permeates just your prayers and your
thoughts throughout this yeah I mean
look every sermon I've given since
October 7th has had to have some
inclusion of this because it's what
what's on everyone's hearts and Minds um
we also have people in our communities
that have lost 20 30 40 people right in
our
midst it's not the same um you know if
we start to have refugees or people that
escape for medical treatment or that are
able to get out through Egypt and join
their families
um you know it's becoming more real
right it's becoming more personal for
people so I think that Ramadan will
surround both in in terms of messaging
as well as Community uh the uh the pain
of the moment with a prayer for Hope and
healing not to put you on the spot but
in your sermons in your private life
what is the passage in the Quran that is
one you find yourself returning too
often you know the part of the Quran I
get asked this question that resonates
with me most uh usually has to do with
what is heaviest for me at the
moment um there's a verse in the chapter
of
Mary um a part of the
versea your lord does not
forget your lord does not
forget and
so you know as you see what's
transpiring right
now our hope is not in creation our hope
is in our creator and our hope is not in
this life our hope is in the
afterlife and so that verse deeply
resonates because I think that you know
many of us often wonder how are they
going to rebuild how are they going to
get past
this and we know that God has a way of
restoring
everything God will restore everything
if not in this life then in the
next so there's an
eternal flame of hope that burns there
yeah and the people of Gaza have it the
people of Gaza have it you know you can
be more easily deluded by this material
world if you're Hostage to it but the
people of Gaza have never been duded by
the material world because they never
really had it they've always been
attached to a greater idea to a greater
place and
so it is part of the secret ingredient
that they have right that they believe
in something greater than this and so
you can't survive hell on Earth unless
you believe in Paradise outside of
it when you look far into the future 20
30 40 years from now we're we're uh
we're doing another podcast and 80s and
90 years
old uh what do you hope to see in the
Middle East what do you hope to see
change in the Middle East in the United
States as a people as
um as a set of
policies cultures
Nations I think that the nation
state model and nationalist ISM are
becoming so unsustainable just with the
growth of refugee
populations desperate Refugee
populations um the rise of unfortunately
fanaticism and fascism in different
parts of the world um climate you know
and and all that that presents to us in
terms of
displacement we're going to have to
figure out how to function
as a world rather than as Nations and
States we're going to have to figure out
how to not see everyone outside of our
borders as
threats and people that are different
from us within our borders as threats
we're going to have to start seeing
people as people and so my hope would be
that we would have made people
uncomfortable enough to
transcend some of the barriers in their
hearts and some of the barriers that we
have in the world that don't allow us to
see other people as people and then that
drives uh you know horrific policies
towards people that are so distant from
us you have been Fearless in walking
through the
fire what gives you strength
psychologically to keep going to speak
out but just also maintain an optimism
and a hope for the future I don't
believe that anyone gives me succcess or
causes me failure without the permission
of God I don't seek fuel from anyone
else I don't seek Hope from anyone
else I believe in a creator that has a
greater plan and I want to be a greater
part of that plan um and I'm inspired by
the resilience of the people of Gaza I'm
inspired by the resilience of my parents
and and our grandparents and
Palestinians around the world that have
refused to succumb to their eraser that
have refused to to give up and so we
have both the energy that we need and we
have the examples that we need the
energy is from above the examples are
all around us well Omar Imam uh this is
a huge honor to once again
speak with you and I just want to say
thank you not just for this but for many
private notes you have sent me of
kindness and support and love through
some of the low
points for um as silly as they are for
me personally so it's just great to be
able to call you a friend and to to be
able to uh have you in my corner it's um
I'm forever grateful to you for that I
appreciate it thank you so much man and
thank you for talking today thanks for
listening to this conversation with Omar
suan to support this podcast please
check out our sponsors in the
description and now let me leave you
some words from Dr Martin Luther King Jr
we shall
overcome because the Ark of the moral
universe is long but it bends towards
Justice thank you for listening and hope
to see you next
time