Kind: captions
Language: en
that's all that matters that he got
there that he got to the place to act
like a fighter to to do what we want him
to do to be ready to persevere to go
beyond the Comfort level to do another
round he didn't want to damn righty
didn't want to but he knew we want him
to and he knew in order to pass the test
he had to do it he goes now it's going
to be your job to get him in the gym
make him mentally stronger make him face
things and teach them how to slip
punches and create holes and fill those
freaking holes with devastating punches
this cuss with punches with bad
intentions the following is a
conversation with Teddy Atlas a
legendary and a times controversial
boxing trainer and commentator when I
was going to this conversation with
Teddy I was ready to talk boxing styles
matches techniques tactics and his
analysis of individual Fighters like
Mike Tyson Michel Moore klitschkos usk
petkin lenko Triple G Canelo Muhammad
Ali shag Leonard Haggler Duran Floyd and
on and on and on like I said I came
ready to talk boxing but I stayed for
something even bigger The Shakespearean
human story of Teddy Atlas cust tomato
and Mike Tyson it's a story about
loyalty betrayal fear and greatness it's
a story where no nobody is perfect and
everybody is human to summarize in the
early 80s young trainer Teddy Atlas
worked with his mentor custado in
training the young boxing prodige now a
boxing Legend Mike Tyson Mike was a
troubled youth arrested over 40 times
and at the age 15 he was sexually
inappropriate with Teddy's 11-year-old
niece in response to this Teddy put a 38
caliber handgun to Tyson ear and told
him to never touch his family again or
he would kill him if he did for this
custado kicked Teddy out why well that's
complicated in part I think to help
minimize the chance of Mike Tyson who
cuss legally adopted uh would be taken
away by the state and with him the dream
of developing one of the greatest boxers
of all time of course that summary
doesn't capture the full complexity of
human nature and human drama involved
here for that you have to listen to this
conversation the things said and the
things left unsaid the pain in Teddy's
voice the contradictions of love and
anchor that permeate his stories and his
philosophy on
life like I said I came to talk about
boxing and stayed to talk about
life this conversation will stay with me
for a long
time the people close to you the people
you trust
the people you love are everything and
if they betray you and break your heart
forgive them forgive yourself and try
again happy holidays everyone I love you
all this is Alex freedan podcast to
support it please check out our sponsors
in the description and now dear friends
here's Teddy
Atlas you wrote In the book that your
father had a big influence on your life
what lessons have you learned about life
from your father when you ask that
question you
know I remember C Mod when I was with
him up in cat for all those years he
used to say to me Teddy you you learned
through
osmosis I believe there's true to that
if I know what osmosis is
and and I but it sounds good yeah yeah
but I learned through osmosis with my
father he he wasn't a big talker he was
you you know he was a doer and I when
you're around someone who lives a
certain kind of life and does certain
things uh it penetrates he was a doctor
he was I I'm going to sound like an
idiot right now because I'm being a son
uh but he was the greatest diagonistic
doctor yeah I mean if I say I ever knew
what's that mean yeah you know what I
mean are you a doctor you know you know
what I mean like what does that mean but
other people have told me this yeah like
just legendary stories he would do house
calls and he help people and like you
said a lot of people have spoken about
the impact he's had in their life he
built two hospitals and he he built a
hospital before the verado bridge in New
York uh connecting Brooklyn to stown and
he he built it so people could get
proper hospital care they couldn't
afford it period and um everybody looked
at him as uh eccentric yeah nice yeah
because because he he would literally
sneak patience not sneak him in he was
Dr Atlas he could do what he wanted to a
certain extent but he would bring
patients in without administering
putting through Administration so there
was no charge because you know they they
didn't have anything they were Street
people they were I I remember being my
only way to be with my father was to go
on house calls yeah or to go to the
office there's no you know and so I went
on house calls with and he did house
call by the way till he was 80 and and
$3 I mean it was better than like
McDonald's you know what I mean I mean
the deal you $ and you got medicine you
got
everything and but he used to right
around the holidays there was just
certain things that I didn't understand
but I understood later where we would
just drive certain areas and he just
over open his door he would pick up
these home and you know I'm I'm 10 years
old yeah you know move over move over
you know mhm and it's just you him and a
homeless guy a couple yeah a couple yeah
whatever he can fit in three four you
know whatever it was that's a big heart
and then he took him to the hospital
dropped him so you know I would ask
questions after it was all over with I'd
say that they're sick he goes well not
not in a way whether you put them in the
hospital MH so he said yeah and he tried
to explain things to me you know he
would try he didn't talk much unless you
asked him something yeah that kind of
works and you know don't talk someone
ask something and he he he explained to
me that he said um I said well why you
put him in the hospital then I you know
and of course the sickness was through
alcohols but um why why you put him he's
it wasn't an alcohol rehab you know so
why you put him and it wasn't for the
purpose to dry out he wasn't trying to
cure them yeah let's put that for before
we we anointed him for saood you know
Like by Teddy at so I was like we we
finally get to the point why you put him
in there yeah well because it's the
holidays all right why you put them in
there well the holidays you know are
good for certain people at badf
fathers and um and it was always before
the holidays it was before Christmas
before whatever and and um New Years
whatever and so I said
why and he said
because they remind people certain
people of what they don't
have that you other people uh enjoy the
holidays because of what they have
family you know whatever and it reminds
them their mind is that that's pretty
profound yeah and and
then I I don't know remember because he
didn't use the word suicide but I I got
it like he he basically I forget how he
said it but like I just got it I don't
know how I got as most I don't know but
I just got it like so they don't hurt
themselves that that's what came across
way I don't think he ever articulated
that ever verbalized that but yeah they
don't hurt themselves so and well how
how does that work well just basically
they're going to be around people
they're not going to be alone they're
going to be around people they're going
to get fed they're going to be warm
right and it's going to be for three
days two three days whatever and it's
basically it's it's a bridge so and the
the funny thing as a 10-year-old I
wanted
to I want to be connected to him so I I
I enlisted myself in a job when when
when he used to drop them off he he
would take them get them in right and
um and then the thing that I know again
he didn't say nothing but I you notice
things and if you care enough you don't
you don't notice nothing if you don't
care but if you care if it's important
you notice and this guy was important to
me I just was I didn't know what a hero
was no clue I love Mickey Mano I love
Willie Mays I love I I love Muhammad Ali
I I I never ever connected in my mind as
Heroes never my
father I I didn't connect it that way
but he looking back now looking back he
was he was my first connection to a hero
the two of you ever talk about how much
you love each
other
one thing that was uh not allowed the
the greatest memory I have my father
shown me love was we were down in
Florida at an airport and and um we were
I was born in Miami don't ask me I was
passing through and the rest of my
family is born in New York St now and so
I was supposed to go back with him right
and I wanted to stay with my mother for
whatever reason and so he you know he
of course conceited to it and he's he's
okay you know whatever and very quiet
very and there's a man who never showed
emotion to anyone I mean for the most
you know really all of a
sudden he just turned and kissed me on
the forehead and left and I was I was
like that's different yeah you still
remember that yeah like that's weird you
lost them 30 years ago how how did that
change
you it made me realize that some of the
deals I used to make for god um more
than
realistic when I was a kid I used to
make deals with God let me die before my
father and then you know you get older
you have kids you're blessed
why did you make that deal you know what
I mean
like thank you for not taking me up on
it yeah thanks
yeah you know oh yeah you miss him I
missed him in moments when I'd like to
know what to
do and um you know I I remember when I
would driving for the one of house calls
he didn't listen to music
he was a guy he read books to his when
he got older he read books to uh blood
vess was broken his
eyes he only read non-fiction books
science he loves science um Wars um
generals I mean I cheated on a couple uh
book reports because of him because I
didn't do the reading of the book the
night before I had a freaking uh book
report to put in that I got a book
report to do on St the war of Stalingrad
yeah really the war of Stalingrad and
who the freak could tell you where you
get an A I got an A yeah he I just wrote
what he told me told me generals he told
me times he told me strategy he told me
about the winter that came and destroyed
the Germans and and and the Soviets were
tougher than and the told Soviets were
tougher than the Germans and you know
the Germans picked on the wrong opponent
yeah I was already in the boxing
business yeah I didn't know it yeah I
didn't even know it yeah matchmaking
very important yeah they they they
mismatched they did they made a mistake
with the picking the opponent and so
when we would be driving in the car my
father would be in a
trance and Dad he wasn't ignoring me at
all he was just with his thoughts M he
was he was wherever he wasn't even here
in the radio no more
I always wonder where he was I did so I
asked him one day and just so we're
driving I said I want to know so I said
dad what do you think when you're
basically in this place that I know
you're somewhere yeah what what do you
what do you where are you what are you
seeing I actually said what do you
see and he said to me I see what could
be I see what could be and I'm like oh
all right I got to ask you when did you
discover boxing what when did you first
fall in love with
boxing when it saved me how did it save
you I I was I was a stupid violent kid
that was angry not exactly know why he
was angry uh I'd fit in real good in
today's society because there's a lot of
angry kids out there that I don't think
they know why they're angry
I was I was just out there getting
fights and um I got this stupid thing
from that can you tell the story of how
you got that I was just running around
doing stupid things bad things I heard
people some people physically but I
heard I heard my my my
family you know that's BS you only hurt
yourself you know that that's a good way
of you know Alibi in
it um you know to but it if at some
point the truth usually Finds Its way
I'd like it to look like it was just
hurt myself but it wasn't obviously so I
was just out on the streets with kids
that didn't grow up in the neighborhood
I grew up I grew up in a neighborhood
where father was a doctor and um I
walked down the street the funny thing
was down down the hill was a very tough
neighborhood called Stapleton and most
of the people down there on the corners
wish they could get up there and I I
wished I could get down the hill so I
went down the hill and I hung out with
all these friends that became lifelong
friends and
uh I um I gravitated to that because I I
figured out later a little bit but you
know I wanted family we were disjointed
family we were you know my father was a
doctor he didn't have time for nothing
but being a doctor you know uh I think
when you gred something you sacrific
something too
you know when you're really great at
something so great that maybe God Made
You great and and you're too great for
your own good and and I don't know it
took me to these
stupid dangerous places dangerous for me
but dangerous for other people too
because I got to the point where I was
doing robberies on the street I was I
was fighting everybody and and you know
what the most dangerous part about it
was and I came to this realization on my
own all by myself I I figured out um I
was really as D you know these kids from
the project some of them they got
nothing you first of all I learned you
don't have to be poor to be
poor you don't have to be deprived of
certain things to be
deprived and or because you at least to
think you're
deprived and I was pouring way that I
didn't have the only thing I wanted to
have him so
here
I here I am where I'm out there doing
these things and what made me more I was
more dangerous than some of these
Psychopaths well I was a psychopath too
I guess the way I was behaving but some
of these Psychopaths that really had
nothing um you know really would you
know they obviously would kill you I I
was dangerous in the almost in the same
way but for a different reason I know
it's ridiculous what I'm about to tell
you but I figured it
out cuz I felt it I thought I was on a
righteous path I thought I had a
right because it was going to get me my
father
back why why I mean you know you're a
scientist you couldn't figure this one
out
because all the people that had them
were injured people fractured people
screwed up people in some ways but but
hurt damaged people
so if I get
damaged I'll get
him so I was on a
crusade really a righteous Crusade where
I thought it was okay I had permission I
had permission to do these terrible
things quite frankly and to fight
everyone and do I I did and then it it
came almost to a
crash doing all that you know winding up
in Reicher Island like an
idiot not understanding the damage I did
to this poor man that you know he um he
was a great doctor and he's got to see
his son and hear about you know what I
mean
like
God I I was out on that day you know
with with the guys that I grew up with
now you know the guys from the projects
from the as I described and I was with
one of them who he he's dead now so I
was I was with him and we
were we we were in a neighborhood the
neighborhood we grew up that that I hung
out and and they and he grew up in Billy
he came from the from the project and we
got into a thing where we cut somebody
cut us off we cut them off you know
jumped out to
fight and um you know it turned out
there's like five or six of them and two
of us and
um you know we fought you know right on
the side right there only about a block
from where I used to hang out and um
maybe a block and a half and right in
front of like a Spanish Bodega and uh it
really does happen in slow motion I
actually saw the guy I was fighting the
guys that that I had to fight and then
all of a sudden I was able to get one
guy out of the way a little bit and um I
really I noticed the guy go into his
pocket and um I knew why he was going in
his pocket you know
and when he came out of his pocket I
knew what it was right away it was weird
because in the neighborhood guys used to
hang out they were they were into this
you know they get into feds like right
on the streets and they went to at that
time they went to this cheap knife but
it was they thought it was we thought it
was cool uh it was a007 and and um and
the cool thing whatever was that you
could flick it you could learn and I
learned how to flick you know but I
never carried a knife but but when my
friends would have it I would just you
learn how you could flick it open not a
switch plate but flick it with your
wrist and I was like here I am in the
middle of this freaking fight and all of
a sudden oh it's A7 you know and and and
so I'm like I you got to make a decision
you know
and I got to splits I can either not do
nothing which wasn't didn't seem like a
great you
know a great option um I couldn't run
away what
not because you got to live with
yourself afterwards and and and that's
more difficult to live with than
whatever it is at that second because
that don't go away you couldn't live
with yourself running away it just don't
go away that thing not nothing to do
with being brave yeah nothing to do with
being brave really it it's got to do
with just
common sense in life that for for
me whatever you're dealing with it's
over it's done like like okay deal with
it good or bad whatever but you you do
that you know that other thing you you
you're gone
um you you that never that never ends
this thing ends memory of you being
let's say a coward in that moment that
never ends the only thing I had at that
point in my life in my St
mind was a reputation yeah that I would
do stand up to certain things that that
was like and that for me was was worth
something whatever because I didn't feel
any Worth to anything else that was the
only thing I felt a connection of wor to
so so stood your ground I say no I made
a decision yes I stood my ground but I I
actually things do slow down they do and
I actually said it's A7 he's got got to
flick it you know I didn't say but he's
got to flick it I got a split second
either like I said either I do nothing
whatever or I get to him before he gets
it flicked I went to get to it before he
got flicked and and I and I just as I
got close to him I I did him a favor I I
I walked right into a counter
punch because I I I cooperated with him
I went right to him and and just as I he
he he he practiced more than I did with
the7 apparently because he was like boom
boom and
and anyway what did you think what did
you think that happened that was all
slow motion did you think he might
die yeah well not immediately took me a
minute I'm a slow learner I put my hand
up right wouldn't you I guess so mhm and
it went into my face yeah and that was
it it was gooey it was warm and gooey
and I was
like I don't know I I don't know what
this means but I don't want to know but
I think I know and
and and
um did you think about your dad in that
moment no you know what I thought about
him was
um you don't know who anyone isn't to
DET test it and um I learned that cuz
used to tell me but I learned it uh he
say you I remember one time C I was a 17
18 year old kid up there and you know
thought I was whatever I thought I was
and he said you got a lot of friends and
um I said yeah because you know I was on
the street hanging out with 100 kids at
night sometimes on the street corner so
I was like I don't know too many people
that hung out with 100 Kids on the
street on a corner on a Friday Saturday
night and um I was like yeah I got a lot
of friends he go
really really he said
um how about if I told you you might not
have any most likely you don't have any
and he
goes and then he just started this thing
he said everyone's got to be tested
you me everyone cuz you don't know about
nobody to they tested he goes you know
nothing he goes you know nothing until
you know until something happens to test
if they were really a friend and then he
told me this story about a guy a guy
came to him and he was upset what are
you upset about he goes I'm upset
because I I I just uh I just lost a
friend uh you know after 20 years of
friendship we're not friends no more so
Co looks at him he goes
let me ask you a question what what made
you think you have a friends with him
now the guy gets insulted and goes did
you hear me he goes I I just told you 20
years I've been friends with this guy
why would you say that to me he said
well I say it again what makes you think
he was your friend he
goes whatever happened in the 20 years
other than chasing girls because figured
that one out fast chasing girls and
drinking together
um and whatever else you're doing out on
the street whatever gave you the
inclination that he was a friend yeah he
goes whatever when did he risk himself
to be your friend yeah when was it
dangerous to be your friend when was the
Friendship tested when was it
uncomfortable to be your friend and you
know what the guy said you can figure it
out you're a scientist he
said he said
today yeah and and and today came for me
and today today today today kept coming
for me today and and that day my friend
Billy it turned out well I was fighting
these whatever five six guys and where
was Billy he was on a
roof he was on a roof he was on a roof
he was my best
friend and and um so anyway they take me
to the hospital and here's the thing
with my father but one thing Billy did
do for me when he got off the roof thank
God he did he he dragged me dragged me
into this Bodega laid me on the floor
and started putting
towels right and the towels I vaguely
remember this they filled up with blood
yeah I mean completely like drenched
like like you put them under a shower
and and um I Heard the B owner screaming
screaming you know like you know
whatever and everyone's screaming and
there chaos and I'm like I don't know
I'm I'm
calm weird I'm like real
calm and
um I'm just in this
place's
calm and all of a sudden I hear Billy
he's screaming call the call the
ambulance call the you know and nobody's
doing nothing everyone's Frozen I'm
starting to understand already people
get Frozen in situations people the fear
fear fear fear fear just paralyzes
people and um and I was going into a
fear business I was learning I was learn
I was getting a a learning early PhD and
and yeah and all of a sudden genius
Billy genius
really Street kid yeah he jumps up on a
freaking counter jumps over the counter
grabs the phone calls 911 says the cop's
been shot and forget about it yeah it
was crazy all I remember after that I'll
tell you the couple things I remember
lights being put onto a stretcher
bounced around you know rushed I felt
everyone's
anxiety except mine I had none but I
felt everyone's anxiety everyone's fear
like was all around me it was like wow
this is interesting this kind of I know
that's stupid but like w this is
interesting wow you really have an eye
for fear that's fascinating you're
really studying it well they I had no
choice I I got introduced in the crash
course and they they put me in ambulance
and this this is what I remember to your
point I'm sorry I took so long to get to
it I am although I'll probably do it
again before this conversation's over
but all about the journey yeah we'll get
there we'll get there pops um so I I
hear the cops say I we might lose him
and I'm like laughing to myself I'm not
laughing because I'm not again I'm not
John Wayne John Wayne would have left
but I'm
like
lose you guys are stupid you know I
didn't say that but I'm like lose me I
my father's the greatest doctor in the
freaking world yeah there's nothing to
worry about you people all you people
are all uptight and whacked out here
with with
fear and and there's nothing to worry
about Dr alas is my father so anyway so
they're they're they're taking me to the
and they said we don't have time I hear
a couple things I remember don't have
time take them to and they take me to
the US public health hospital Marine
hospital was called at the time but US
public health and it's in Stapleton so
it's close thank God so they're taking
me and I hear them on the radio you know
saying this stuff about we go to we got
to move we got to move and
um I start
talking and that tell me don't
talk but I like to talk a lot you know
and I'm so again fear there's no fear
when the fear's been
removed it's the only time you're really
free in life and I know that sounds
absurd but really it is it's the only
time you really free in life I was when
you're close to death when you're devoid
of of of things that that normally hold
you back that normally influence you in
ways that that you know that are
not of the influence that always
positive influence where you're where
you're in a pure place where you're
you're in a purely free place from all
inhibitions from fear from anxiety from
from Joy Joy can screw you up and you're
free from all these things and I'm in
this place just in the back of an
ambulance you're free I'm yeah I'm I'm
like I said just give me Dr Atlas and
they say we don't have time no no no no
no you don't
you have to get Dr Atlas you have to get
him this was the damn it this was the
you know what I mean I finally freaking
hit the number and I'm not getting paid
and then all of a sudden I'm out how
many they well I think it was 400 200
inside 200 outside or whatever it was a
lot hey look after after after 50 it the
number doesn't matter no more right
whatever 60 70 80 90 whatever you know
so I was fortunate I was fortunate and
of course they I was fortunate they told
me afterwards that miss my juggler
literally by like like a centimeter I
mean whatever and um so then um then we
wouldn't be having this conversation
obviously I'm glad you made it yeah
that's another I'm kind of glad too and
and it just missed my eye which thank
God it's bad enough I have a scar
matching me with a patch I
mean I mean it's enough that I got this
freaking
thing and um and look it goes all the
way you know I mean it's you know it's
it's pretty long and
um I don't know I was out and then
somehow I sensed like they had the
curtain closed you know and it's amazing
how Vivid this
is and the curtains Clos and I see a
shadow I I felt the presence I did and I
felt him he's a he's a powerful guy and
I felt him and I just see like a shadow
you know and all of a sudden uh the the
curtain gets pushed back and I can't
really see it's dark and I'm you know
out of it but not completely out of it
and um pushes the curtain back comes
in and his hand even though it's all
bandag you know whatever but his hand
surveys
it felt
safe and um it felt it felt warm and
safe I was happy and um he got there you
know did he say something yeah yeah
remember I gave you a little bit of
introduction to my father right you know
him now a little bit right yeah yeah
what did he say about the job he said he
just said this is what he said I
remember to this day what he said yeah
that that I do remember I don't know if
it was six or five people but this I do
remember yeah he said they did a good
job job you're going to have a scar the
rest of your
life and he
left oh man they did a good
job you mentioned C Cato legendary
trainer and you also mentioned it turned
out he really cared about you in the
book you write about a testimony he gave
I was hoping I could read it cuz it
speaks to your character it speaks to
his it's just powerful the testimony
goes your honor I realize you might not
know much about me but I've spent my
whole life developing young men as a
boxing manager I trained two world
champions heavyweight champion Floyd
Patterson and light heavyweight champion
Jose
Torres I've also helped a lot of other
young boys straighten out their lives
and build character I know things about
Teddy Atlas this court doesn't know
things you won't find on his arrest
record record this boy has character he
has loyalty he'll hurt himself before
he'll let down a friend these qualities
are rare and they shouldn't be lost he's
made mistakes we've all made mistakes
but I've come to know this boy and if we
lose him we'll be losing someone who
could help a lot of people please don't
take this young boy's future away he
could be someone special let's not lose
him
please
those are powerful words from a powerful
man uh what have you learned about life
from from uh Mr
custado he gave me a quote and he drove
into my head I became his guy you know
he loved me I loved
him he he said to
me
Teddy no matter what a man said is is
what he does in the end that he intended
to do all
along that's what I learned from
CZ rest of it is
BS and
um a lot of people
um say things you just have to give them
a minute
to let them show you
eventually what they really meant by it
I also learned from him that
uh everyone's
afraid because his way of saying another
great saying you'll get kick out of this
uh anyone who's in a situation where
fear should be prevalent where fear is
actually necessary to survive the
situation anyone who says that they're
not afraid they're one of two things
they're either a liar or or they should
go to a doctor find out what the freak's
wrong with
them he was right about
that you know we live in a a taboo
Society where that word to a certain
extent is taboo because it invokes
weakness you know we we
uh we are just layers of what we saw and
learned since we were kids we all are
were products of those layers I learned
that on my own well through some help at
the end of the day
um you
know
fear people will find their way of
avoiding that term so they use the word
anxiety they use the word you know
butterflies apprehension you know a
million different
right words I find all those other words
to be cousins of fear and and fear fear
causes a lot of things in life it it
causes a lot of problems uh and and it
also solves a lot of problems without it
uh we couldn't be
great if we are great if we ever have a
chance to be great um or at least to
Aspire to be great how how does Fear
connect to Greatness that's a that's a
profound statement without fear we
wouldn't be able to be
great yeah you couldn't be great without
fear because fear allows her to
be
brave the most important word for me in
this whole you know conversation right
neighborhood would be
selfishness uh and it allows you to be
for a moment less
selfish one of the things I learned I
guess partly on my own
everyone thinks my greatest teacher was
cus he was a great teacher Mentor my
greatest teacher was my father the one
who never
talked and um I realized um one of the
things to be better towards
great um is if you can
be submit less than we submit see one of
the things that I'm afraid of one of the
things I was always
quitting in my business that it's kind
of not a good thing mhm every business I
think yours yours is just more uh clear
yeah it it hurts more
and in the moment at least yeah in the
moment but you're right 100% because
some things hurt for a long time
afterwards and um something like regret
regret is the worst thing in the world
because it's a solitary
sentence and and man man that's a
powerful phrase regret is a solitary
sentence so boy I you're full of good
lines you know it wasn't easy to uh to
to accumulate them it was it was a
little bit hurtful but so uh submit less
because we submit every day and if we
can get to a place where we submit or
compromise ourselves less
we we'll get to a better place you know
again one of the one of the words for me
that attaches to things that give you
that wind up hurting you in life and
have hurt me in life uh one of those
boogey men words is the word of
convenience that's attach to everything
you know PE people
people disappoint you not because they
want to disappoint you or let you or
betray you because they want to betray
you they do it because it's more
convenient to do mhm than than the other
thing an old man once told me he said to
me I was trying to I was trying to
rationalize something I was trying to
make something an excuse for something I
was trying to make myself better than I
was I was trying to say it was
okay and and he just looked at me and he
he he liked me and he said
Teddy ain't no such thing as being a
little
pregnant
like yeah because either you're pregnant
or you're not
pregnant either you're real or you're
not real either
you're you know truthful you're not
truthful either you're tough or you're
not tough either you're either you're
you know committed or you're not
committed either you're in or you're
out that applies a lot of things yeah
including
loyalty that's quite a statement but the
life blood of humanity for me is loyalty
um it's it's what goes through the veins
of uh you know everything has to have
some veins in some form and if Humanity
has veins what runs through the veins of
humanity instead of blood to keep it
alive is
loyalty without loyalty without loyalty
We Dead We freaking Walk we're vessels I
never understood what a ghost ship was
you know what as I got old I know what a
ghost ship is it's people it's people
that are empty MH they got no
loyalty therefore they got no
Humanity therefore they got
nothing therefore freak them freak them
because and and and you know why they
don't have loyalty convenience and you
know
why because it takes it's hard to be
loyal it's actually hard mhm I'll be a
son of a gun yeah you tell me yeah it
sounds great give it to me give it to me
paint me with it yeah it's great yeah
I'm loyal I'm yeah I'm I'm yeah this is
good I'm ready I'm on that team I'm
ready put me in coach I'm ready okay now
you have to uh you're going to have to
get hurt here what do you mean get hurt
oh well it's going to be painful I mean
to be loyal you know you you're going to
be in danger because the person that you
committed your loyalty to for a reason
because obviously he did something in
your life ever whatever
um you're actually going to get hurt to
be loyal to them you're actually G to
hold on a minute wait hold on a minute
coach
um hold on call time out here um let me
think about this coach I'm I'm I might
need more more practice I'm not ready
for the game I'm not ready to go in the
game yet give me a little more practice
coach and it hurts to be loyal it
freaking hurts but without loyalty
we're we're ghost ships we got no
strength we got nothing yeah we got
nothing we we got we got nothing I agree
with you in a deep fundamental sense but
there's uh pain that comes with that I
have to ask you
to uh introspect on this part of your
life because of your value for
loyalty uh as people know you and
custado
uh trained young Mike
Tyson and the interaction there uh
between the three of you led to the
three of you parting
ways given your value for loyalty can
you tell the full story of uh what led
up to this and
maybe the pain you
felt from
that
I it was if I guess it was the second
time in my life I felt
betrayed um the first time was
when I
um you I was whatever young
17 and I got
arrested I was with all these older guys
tough guys
whatever and um
supposedly and uh the detective
separated us that's what they do and um
you know they they asked me who did
whatever who's gun this that you know
all that the particulars of obviously
what we did and you know it was me and
um they said you sure you don't want to
change that you don't want to because
your friends changed it and and these
cops they were nasty but they were cops
they were the way you know you're going
to wind up in Rikers with and they're
going to be doing this to you and I
won't even say the things because then
why say them you know figure it out but
you know they're trying to get what
they're trying to get and you know you
want to change it and um
no and but I felt very betrayed you know
yeah and um especially when I was
standing in the in the cell in rikus
looking at the airplanes leave luati
airport and then hoping I was on one you
know I was making like a deal with God
said let me be on one of those planes
and let it crash I'll take a shot was
part of you proud that you didn't give
up your friends no because I didn't
understand what proud was I didn't
understand nothing I just understood
that um rules are rules you're just
loyal and that's it I didn't even know
there was an option I didn't think there
I know the cops said you could do this
but that there was no option my father
never had an
option but the the Betrayal the private
betrayal was like and so when
cuz we were Partners me and cus yeah cus
was
retired this stupid kid goes up there
and all of a sudden I start training
Fighters first I won the gloves cuz put
me in the gloves I won the gloves that I
had injury whatever but bottom line is I
still want to fight I want to turn pro I
want to fight that was the plan and
um and cuz had a different plan
cuz cuz was like you can't and he had it
set up a little bit whatever without
getting into it hey he did me a favor
and I I'd like to think he knew he was
doing me a favor and you know what I do
think he was he was doing himself a
little bit one too but but he was doing
it for the greater cause because he
believed in this thing of boxing he he
believed that it changed Liv he believed
that it was worthwhile he believed that
there was a power to it beyond the left
hook the big picture of boxing yeah he
believed in it yeah he believed that To
Be A Champion you had to be special you
had to be smart you had to have
character you had that you had to be a
better person and that you couldn't make
a champion if you didn't make him a
better person first and and that that
this you know this could strengthen
people the sport could strengthen people
in those ways
so he he was married to it and he he was
old and he needed there was no one in
the gym it was
empty and it was above a police station
which was crazy and he needed an air to
the throne he needed to pass it on to
someone and he saw something and all of
a sudden he said he saw that my career
as a box was less important than having
me become his air to the Drone and
become his trainer his man his guy to
continue that we could do a lot more for
him and for for for everyone not just
for him but for everyone it was more
like to keep it going like it couldn't
die it couldn't die and the cousin was
afraid to it would die with him and he
committed his whole life to it he didn't
get married because of boxing so he
didn't so he saw me as as you know the
the little bit of you know the seed to
plant for for more things to grow and
before that plant died and so he all of
a sudden he she came fight and I had
people tell me that I could go somewhere
else and fight M and I could MH but I
couldn't right because I'd be disloyal
loyalty is everything yeah so I couldn't
leave cus yeah and he kind of knew that
and and so you know I couldn't leave him
and he said you have an ability to teach
he said knowledge means
nothing he said see these pranica he had
pran pranica encyclopedia uh the whole
set in in our library he said you see
these yeah I see them all the knowledge
of the world whatever uh is in these all
right means nothing if you don't have
somebody to convey it to people
otherwise it just sits on a bookshelf it
looks good he go you have the ability to
convey knowledge to people you're a
teacher you were born to be a teacher
you'd lessen Yourself by only being a
champion fighter because you'd only take
care of one person you could take care
of all kinds of people and you could do
this and you could do that and you could
do this so we go on this Venture took a
minute cuz I didn't believe him at first
but finally we I am I'm there I'm
training
Fighters and then he he gets me to buy
in and I I was a teacher and I start
teaching these kids and there's no one
in the gym it's dead and all of a sudden
there 10 kids 15 20 25 30 35 40 45 cat
skill boxing club which was never there
now it's there and I'm training Fighters
I'm taking down to South Bronx to get
experience one of his former Fighters
NOS quis down to South Bronx I'm taking
down there to get smokers to get fights
when they're ready after I I'm wearing
out dungar I'm getting holes in my dung
I was fashionable before it was
fashionable to have holes in my dungar I
could have made a lot of money with that
because I was on my knees with these
little kids 9 years old 10 years old8
years old 10 12 13 14 all these kids and
and I'm teaching and I'm building a gym
and cuz only came once a week because he
was semi-retired you know and and he's
and when he would come once a week he
knew he couldn't give me money but he
gave me more than money he gave me
praise MH and he said look what Atlas is
doing he's creating Champions and I was
like wow yeah wow I'm I'm doing good and
and and then all of a sudden after four
years of that because I was up there
seven years8 years eight years after
about three and a half four years of
that we get a phone call that they get
this kid in prison and try on Prison uh
from one of the guys that knew C Matt
Baranski uh and and there's a state
there's a correction officer named Bobby
Stewart who used to box and cus had
helped him out a little bit little bit
and um and they knew we had this gym now
that was really starting become
something because we were winning
tournaments and everything else the go
we got this kid Mike Tyson he he's he's
12 years old he's 190 PBS he's a mess
but Bobby Stewart got involved with him
uh you know the the former fighter and
he's taking a liking to it and now where
he didn't behave at all and he didn't
listen to anyone now he's listening
because Bobby's got a carrot and the
carrot is hit teacher boxing and now he
he's at the point now where we we want
you to take a look you and Teddy all
right bring him down what what did you
think when you first saw Mike Ty well I
I want to I want to see his birth
certificate because he 190 lbs 12 years
old and all solid yeah um you know
really but yeah just physically just as
a physical specimen and and big guy yeah
and
listen cuz was right I was a teacher he
was right and he was testing me even
that day he said what do you think so I
said well we ain't going to know nothing
in the bag who the freak cares about
that he knocked the bag down we got to
put him in with uh we got no to put him
in that weight I didn't have anyone that
weight we got to test them everyone's
got to be tested and um so you got to
put them in responsibly but let's put
him in just respond but let's put him in
with Bobby Stewart former Prof fighter
had 14 Prof fights smaller than Tyson uh
he was when he was fighting he was 175
but still he's 28 years old Tyson's 12
come on and and he'll work with him
right so we do we put him Tyson he
recognized the moment he understood this
was an audition this was a chance you
know this was that TV show change your
life and he understood that if he passed
the audition he could change possibly
change his life he wasn't sure what how
could he be sure what exactly but it was
better than what he had and so he was on
aition so he wanted he innately
understood what we would want to see
ferociousness
toughness uh character uh desire you
know and of course ability well we saw
the ability power speed but it was it
was unbridled it was untaught it was it
was raw he didn't know really much at
all um at all but we saw that but he
wanted to show more he knew that wasn't
enough again inate intelligence he he
had to show desire he had to show
toughness and so I was being responsible
after two rounds that's enough normally
I don't put a guy into box until maybe
four months 5 months 6 Months 8 months
10 it depends what it takes to learn on
the floor before it's responsible to put
them in the ring to to actually take on
uh incoming real live shells instead of
blanks yeah and so normally I wouldn't
have them in and I knew after today he
wouldn't be in the ring again if I
trained him I would teach him first and
then he'd get back in in a few months
but for this day it was the only
way it's kind of like I used to make
this analogy and C loved it I he said
what's traded on fighter what do you
what what do you look for tading a
fighter Teddy you know he asked me this
ridiculous question just to test me and
and I say it's like going to Macy's with
he loved it I said it's like I said it's
like go to Macy's window and Chris he
goes what do you mean Macy's window you
know cuz was like boom boom boom so what
do you mean Macy window you go to Macy's
window and they get the window with
everything you want to see everything in
there it looks great oh everything and
yeah and then what well then you ask
what's in the warehouse and they tell
you
nothing yeah and and cuz says that's it
that's a trainer yeah and I wanted to
see what was in the
warehouse because I saw what was in a
Macy's window I saw the power I saw the
speed so he goes two rounds and he gets
bloody nose here's the weird thing not
weird very telling we knew what we were
doing not bragging but we knew what we
were doing because he got a bloody nose
because he got
hit after that Bloody he never got
another bloody nose you know why he
didn't get hit cuz he learned he was
still strong but he was smarter now
anyway he goes two rounds and I saw and
I'm being responsible because if he goes
more it's not responsible I saw what I
needed to say I saw speed I saw power I
saw athleticism
and I saw I didn't believe him I thought
he was lying to me I'm just telling you
I I thought he was lying trying to act
tough when he wasn't really feeling
tough it didn't matter cuz questioned me
on it afterwards what did you say and
when I said he goes young Master you
know again he wasn't paying me money so
he had to give me something right and
and that was better than that was
currency young master I'm the young
Master whoa you know young Master you
know what I mean I felt like that guy
Kung Fu you know like in the movie like
F grasshopper when you're ready when you
could take this out of my hand you can
leave and that's powerful yeah it was it
worked cuz knew how to work me and he
did and and it worked and and so but you
know what I didn't mind being worked I
kind of knew I was being shuffled a
little bit well you're making it sound a
little bit negative but it's also
extremely positive that's a teacher
instilling wisdom into you that you
carried forward and impacted a lot of
people yeah cuz got the job done but he
did it his way and and he did it for a
lot of a myriad of reasons and but at
the end of the day it was all good and I
I just had to understand that eventually
uh later on but and you do the same you
do things your way and carry some of him
in you some of your father in you yeah
that day you know that day it was funny
because when C said what did you see
Teddy when him what two rounds I got up
in the ring I knew I was going to train
him obviously we weren't going to say no
and he still had about four months to
serve and we were going to work it out
yeah
and when I got up on a ring apron that's
my gym I'm the boss you know people
later on in life called me a dictator
you know what I said yeah you're right I
didn't deny people thought you you you
mean I'm right yeah I'm a dictator I'm a
trainer I'm the boss I'm in charge if I
you wouldn't be here if I was
what the freak you need me for if I'm
not freaking in charge you idiot yeah
yeah damn right what do you think it's a
it's a Shar responsibility no it's my
responsibility that's why you're here
yeah I am in charge and you shouldn't be
here if you don't understand that so I
get up there and I know that I'm going
to be training them I got to show them
who the boss is you know I'm being
really Frank about this so I get up
there say that's it out yeah no no you
know Ty no let me go I want to do
another round I want to do another I
want I said out did you hear what I said
because I knew that you know he was
going to test me he was testing me I I
said I said get
out he got out but were you impressed
with the fact that you want to keep
going or no yes and I recognized what it
really was so cus asked me what was that
CU want to know what the young Master
saw so God said what was
that I said it was
um it was an act he goes you saw
that did he really want to go I said no
I said he didn't really want to go but
he knew that we want him to go and he
made himself ready to go in order to
satisfy and that's just as good and CZ
said damn right it's just as good all
that matters was not not not how he got
there but that he got there yeah that's
all that matters that he got there that
he got to the place to act like a
fighter to to do what we want him to do
to be ready to persevere to go beyond
the Comfort level to do another round he
didn't want to damn righty didn't want
to but he knew we want him to and he
knew in order to pass the test he had to
do it and he said you're right he goes
now it's going to be your job to teach
him to make him a fighter that don't get
bloody noses that don't get hit and will
get to that place without being
coerced to get there to get to that
place on his
own instead of using the things that he
had to use to get to that place today
those things are not going to be
available one day when you and listen to
this you talk about a man being
prophetic because was pretty good you
talk about man being on a job on a money
Lex he says how do you think he finishes
the s he goes because someday you
because you know you're going to have to
make sure that he learns these things
because you know he he'll be your first
heavyweight
champ what did you just say he's 12
years old yeah yeah he he's been
arrested 30
times he's getting out of jail out of
you know Juvenile Detention Fry on
um he's a mess in a lot of ways there's
a lot of things we find out later a lot
of problems weakness is he goes and you
that's part of your job that'll be part
of your job and but he really said that
he and then then he turned to him he
goes you want to come live with us young
man you want to be your
fighter yes even that CZ said to me
later what do you think about that I
said he a the way he said yes yeah the
way he said yes yes sir yeah he said
what do you think about that and we're
talking I said ain't going to be that
polite a little while down the road
again he knew that that's what he felt
that he needed to to project himself as
to to present himself at to to get to
way he want to get to he goes you yeah
yeah did you see what cus was seeing in
terms of the heavyweight champion of the
world no again be easiest answer would
be yes Teddy Teddy Al genius wow wow
Teddy wow no no no no but again it was
my job yeah and I just I my job it was
simple simpler than cusses cus Knew Too
Much I knew nothing I just knew you know
Rudman of boxing I knew what it took to
be a fighter and and how to execute it
the steps of executing it so I took
those steps the the the rest of it you
get blurred by those other things I
wasn't blurred by those other things it
was it was just get him in the
gym make him mentally stronger make him
face things and teach them how to slip
punches and and create holes and fill
those freaking holes with devastating
punches this is a cuss and what are you
going to do I'm going to teach him to
fill holes and fill them with punches
with bad intentions yeah and and that
became the Monica yeah and then Tyson
would say that I'm throwing punches with
bad intentions yes you are and um you
know how do you make it mentally tougher
so that part of the job the you said the
don't get a bloody nose but the part
part of the job what makes him mentally
tougher how do you do that most
important part of the job to make him
face things yeah make him face where he
lying to himself where he's submitting
what if we start this conversation with
submission yeah submit less yeah submit
less submit less every day submit less
cuz only come to the gym once in a while
and if I had him spawn he would come
because that was his that was his
project that was the heavyweight now he
came you know put life in cuz cuz had
life he he was losing a little life but
that made the light bulb bright again it
did and it was great to see I felt proud
of that I felt connected to that and
that's why when when when it all went
bad and CZ took the side that the only
side he could sake the side of the next
heavyweight champ of the world but he
but he left me his partner the young
master
and the second time I get betrayed and
I'm
like for a while I thought everything CU
taught me said to me was a liar I didn't
want to be any part of it anymore until
I got a little more mature and I got a
little past
that where I was able to
understand I was able to
understand
that just because somebody that you
perceived as great in every area is you
find to be weak in certain
areas does it
mean that they can still be what they
want to
you it's it's something
that it's something that can be
understood or
forgiven it it's hard it's hard to get
to that place and forgive somebody in
that kind of way that I felt betrayed
because CU told me the most important
thing was loyalty cuz told me he loved
me because I was loyal cuz cuz told
people that the reason that he went to
court was because I didn't give up
anybody even though it meant put me in
the risk of going to jail for 10 years
and he and cuz felt that he admired
those traits and so I assumed that he he
would show the same traits and he took a
deal he took a deal he took a deal he he
signed the papers that those that those
so-called fedin signed you know he he he
took a deal to to you
know to to have the future Heavyweight
Championship turned out uh and and to
let me you know to let me go to sign the
deal to to let me take you know take the
weight for people who don't
know uh Mike was inappropriate with a
young girl and you pulled the gun on
him I don't know if there's deeper
things to say about that situation no
but why do you think hus made the
decision to cut you off from both Mike
Tyson and from C Cato like to break that
when he valued loyalty so much I served
my purpose I got him to the way he
needed to
get um for life back in the gym if I
wasn't in the gym at that particular
time Tyson never would have been in the
gym there would have been no gym to
bring them to when they called up and
made that phone call to bring them to
the gym there would have been no
activity there would have been no boxing
program there would have been you know
no trainer training him 247 the way I
was where C wasn't capable of doing that
at that point in his life yeah but then
again it's not poor Teddy I get the
benefit of a career I get the benefit of
knowledge I get the benefit of a life I
get the benefit of learning of of
becoming hopefully a better person um I
got the benefit of being betrayed again
um but that's a hell of a statement
right there I don't know what the
benefit of that
is you can learn to forgive
weakness you
know when you realize
how how easy it is to be
weak and and when you realize that
somebody asked me how did you get to the
point where you you could forgive right
it's a pretty good question pretty
simple pretty basic pretty important
right and I didn't I didn't understand I
understood but I did understand
immediately for
me I said how can I not forgive
somebody it becomes easier to learn how
to
forgive when you're still trying to
forgive yourself
when you're still in the process of
trying to forgive yourself for all your
own inherent
weaknesses and betrayals of people like
my
father in different ways that we forget
very easily because it's
handy and it's a way of
surviving it's a lot easier to to figure
it out rationalize it to to to to find
forgiveness when you realize that you
still haven't figured out completely how
to forgive
yourself I'm still trying to figure that
out and
um so that helped me figure out how to
forgive
cus because to figure out how to forgive
me I had to understood why I did these
things where the where the weaknesses
came from where the selfishness came
from where the convenience came from
that they really
existed but they didn't exist for
malice they existed for me not being
prepared to understand that I could be
stronger to want to be stronger and then
I looked at CU he wanted to be stronger
but he got to a point in life where he
had been strong for a lot of his life he
was strong with me he was strong with a
lot of things in his life and does
everyone deserve a pass in
life
where he got he got to a place where
everything was in one basket the basket
of boxing he once told me that he never
got married because it would be on it
would been selfish to a woman to have
gotten married when his whole life was
boxing that he couldn't give to a kid he
couldn't give to her he could and and
then I thought about it he had no money
really and Jim ja was and Bill Caden
took care of the bills so he didn't
really need money that way
but the one what was the payoff for that
kind of life that kind of commitment
that kind of sacrifice really what was
the payoff the
payoff was to have
Champions to have a champion that would
keep your name
alive you know that word legacy like
what does it mean sometimes it's it's
just a word sometimes it's it's more
than a word it it's it's it's a
reprieve it's a pension plan is is being
giving a pension on your way out for the
rest of your life for for your life
wherever you're going you're going to
wherever you're going for eternity um it
it's it's it's the only thing that you
take with you is what you left behind
and for C it was all about leaving
behind a mark a Mark that of Champion
yeah it was attached to Ego we all have
it yeah it was attached to some
selfishness and all but yeah it was also
attached to wanting to leave something
great behind yeah to know that you were
part of it that you existed for a reason
that that that you sacrificed for a
reason and all that freaking pain I
brought my
father I was searching for something
yeah made it into a righteous search I
made it into I did and I made it into it
was okay because it was righteous and I
but it still did
damage it still did damage it still hurt
people it still betrayed my father's
trust
and CZ betrayed mine but he didn't do it
maliciously he he did it out of
again
my father came home this is how I'm
going to connect it my father came home
from from work one night 12:00 and I was
waiting up and like I said I was over 9
10 years old and he got mad at me he
goes go to bed what are you doing up I
said I'm waiting for you waiting for you
and
um he said well go to bed I said no I I
I what were you doing he said I was at
the hospital you were there why were you
there so late you
know he answered me he he said there was
a patient there was a sick patient I
said he must be better now because
you're his doctor you know because my
father could fix
anything my father nothing got in the
way of the truth nothing nothing even
blown his son's
bubble matter factly he said to
me uh no he's not going to get better
he's going to die
and
um so as a 9-year-old kid you know
you're a kid you're selfish you know not
in a bad way but you know you want what
you and I said
um I said two things first I said how
how you're his
doctor how it can't be and then I said I
I just said it almost angry then why
were you there like you should have been
here with me yeah and you know what he
said to me cuz you don't give up on
life go to
bed and don't give up on life and that's
I finally connected to dots this idiot
that didn't graduate high
school I finally connected to dots I was
asking cut to give up on
life you don't you don't give up on life
you don't give up on aspirations of life
life is all forms of life doesn't have
to be a physical form of it it's life
it's having a reason to be
alive it's having a reason to have
tomorrow and and C's only reason to have
tomorrow was to have another heavyweight
champ and Teddy Atlas even though we
were together all those years and we
were partners and we trained together
and we were we would you know the only
thing we didn't do was what they did in
the Indian movies where where they cut
the finger and they became Blood
Brothers that's that's the only thing we
didn't do and I felt like we did that
yeah without cutting
and and now here we are and he freaking
betrayed me just and and um and then all
of a sudden I connected to D I was
like he didn't betray me in the in that
cold
sense he didn't give up give up on life
life uh years later Mike Tyson
apologized to
you what what what's meaningful to you
about that how does that fit the story I
want to be the great gracious guy right
now say oh I'm so you human that that
you know a man's manad enough to say
sorry that's it we're good I want to be
really that that's that's that's the
that's the best presentation of Teddy
Atlas I could put out there he's a good
guy he forgives he he's a good guy he's
a he's a he's a standup guy and he's a
good guy I'm not
sure if he truly did it for himself that
he really did
it because he felt
that it was
true but but if he's persuaded by other
things
he was in the middle I know I'm taking
it too deep I know but what am I going
to do he was in the middle of 12 steps
with the you know getting out of drugs
alcohol 12 steps which is a commemorable
thing really it is and and he's taking
the steps and part of the steps was to
admit all to apologize to all people you
offended in
life
okay
but are you doing it for the 12 steps or
you doing it because you
really truly
have come to terms with
believing what you did was that hurtful
to me and that it matters to you that it
was that hurtful to me and that you were
wrong in doing it did you do it for I
know that's deep I know that I'm a
freaking idiot I'm a you're you're a
Teddy freaking you're you're you should
be better than that he's better than you
yeah maybe he is better than me maybe he
is really seriously maybe he is and and
I took it he put his hand took it I we
hugged he said I love you I I I yeah
yeah I but I want to
believe but what did CZ tell me no
matter what a man says is what he does
in the end that he intended to do all
along so to this day
today was it really genuine or was it
reflective of that moment for him to get
what he needed to you know for that step
or was it
truly for what I needed to to really
that he really
cared that what he did to me caused me
to do what I did because I did something
that was pretty damn bad to him too is
he able
to deal with that and put that where it
has to be put is he able to put that or
or is it just he did something he had to
do maybe he's sorry he did it I know
I'm look I appreciate it that
he I would have rather been in a private
place yeah so for people don't know you
were in the middle of commentating a
fight and he walked up from behind you
and he said he was sorry he shook your
hand gave you a hug I didn't know he
said I love you yeah he's emotional I
get emotional a little bit too but but
he he's emotional and he can be and he
can be I can see why people have a
Fascination in a love affair with him
right now because he
was because you know he
was he was the meteor the meteor that
went across the sky that is if they
didn't see it their parents told them
about it there was a media that came
across the sky one day and and and the
media is walking around in the room now
and that's the meteorite and then and it
actually landed here and and that's it
right there and and and now he's come a
long way and now he's you know he's more
human and and he he's lovable you know
and and compassionate and he cries and
and I get the fascin I get the love
affair I get it because we're inherently
we're people that want to forgive we're
people that we want to be good we and
part of being good is to forgive people
and to to show compassion to people and
so and when somebody's been
damaged uh
to acknowledge they've been damaged to
acknowledge that you know they've been
damaged and you care about them being
damaged and how do you show care through
admiration you know in in some ways
almost through adol and he's getting
adol from people like you know uh which
is to an incredible level and it's
because it's a phenomena but but I get
it I understand it and
um I don't know if he gets it I don't
know if underneath all of this he's a
complex guy he's a sensitive guy I don't
know and I am too and one complex guy
talking about another complex guy I
don't know if Underneath It All where
he's really truly at as far as that day
that he said that to me is there part of
you that's sorry to Mike for I'm not
sorry G on him yeah and that's listen
that's fair I I know dimensions of you
nature too well to not know that he
still has to have certain because I have
those strong feelings what it's not fair
for him to have him damn right it's
fair now now he could look at it if if
he was to be held to his word that night
that he just acknowledges that what
happened he deserved because of what he
you know the position he put me in and
he put himself in what he did and I
wouldn't changed nothing you know still
you're you don't regret pulling the gun
on him I regret that I had to yeah yeah
I regret very much that that I had to
that I regret very much I'm he crossed
the line I hated him for putting me in
that
position that that you know how dare he
think that that somebody's feelings are
that
trivial that the way I would feel about
myself and the way the girl would feel
about herself that was 11 years old at
the time how she would feel about
herself how how dare that he think it's
that trivial that you
know that I shouldn't be ready to
freaking to both die and kill for that
yeah why didn't custom
a see it in a deeper way and talk
through it did the word came back to me
but of course what does it
mean but the word came back to me that C
said you were right but if he took the
side of Teddy he would destroy a
potentially a great a great fighter why
why do you think that okay if you were
to try to understand the point he was
making why why is that true is isn't the
part of greatness that you said is
building the character of knowing what
is right what you know CU was afraid to
to go there where he used to not be
afraid because it's kind of like you're
never afraid of going up and I I get it
you know when I train to fight an hour
if I come out of retirement I train to
fight an hour I feel in Camp like I'm I
feel like I'm on death row every day
that that if every day I I try to
retrace my memory and say did I feel
this way when I was younger I I don't
remember feeling this way I feel every
day a dreadful feeling that if I don't
get this right I I I've betrayed
everything I betrayed the fighter trust
I betrayed uh what I'm supposed supped
to be and then one one day I tried to
figure it out why do I feel this way
it's so intense I was in Camp for two
months training a guy for the world
title a couple few years ago um fighting
the hardest puncher in the world at the
time and um adona Stevenson and the
fighter was Ukrainian and I was you know
brought in to train him for that fight
and he trusted me and changed his whole
style trusted meh oh my God I went to
bed every night like praying um dread
waking up dread my stomach down to here
every saying what what if I fail him
what what what if everything that I told
him was going to happen don't happen
what if I fail him what what if he
trusted me and I I betrayed that trust
and the thing was the with cus was you
know he used to be stronger than that
and then I I tried to figured out why I
got this way and why it was so Dreadful
to me and why I felt like I was on death
row every day trading to fighter like
did I do enough did I do right well well
will we accomplish what we will we
accomplish what I promised him we would
accomplish would I keep my word and and
then I started thinking what how did I
become this weak how did I freaking
become I was a pretty strong freaking
guy how did I become this weak and then
finally I think I figured it out you
know why because I was always working to
get up but once I finally got up now I
was looking down and I finally hit me I
said I didn't want to lose lo I said
there was nothing to lose on my way up
mhm now all of a sudden there's
something to lose when you're up there
and you're looking down and that's where
he was and and that's where CZ was cuz
cuz was at the end of his rle he he was
he accomplished the two World Champs all
this stuff right everything he and and
and he did it right now all of a sudden
it wasn't about moving forward it was
about not falling
down holy cow I was like I got it cus I
got it I got it you didn't want to fall
down oh my God you didn't want to fall
and he this was his last
chance you don't give up on life this
was his last chance to live
forever to to make everything he did
worthwhile to have the youngest heavy it
wasn't just heavyweight CH you got to
remember he was the youngest heavyweight
champ ever and to have that it was okay
to die now
and how's
loyalty to someone named Teddy Atlas
could have get in the way of that that's
a tital wave that there ain't no wall
that's been made high enough to stop
that title wave and now I'll stop
myself yeah there
is but but it have to be awful big one
and you know what who are we to say that
we could ever Build That Wall that big
who's any of who might is say do you
think if you were to put yourself in the
shoes of C cust
tomato can you see yourself having the
big enough wall where you would choose
loyalty now if I answer the way I feel
then then I'm you know I'm making myself
John Wayne again you don't have to
answer then I think loyalty loyalty is
important no matter what a man says it's
what he does in the end that he intends
to do do all along I didn't make that up
custard and and when when this all went
down those words came freaking echoing
into my freaking ears I didn't want them
cotton doesn't
help and they freaking kept coming into
my ears and what do you think still an
immature kid at the time you know I was
young still an immature kid at the time
what the freak do you think my response
was you were full
of yeah and but I got past that do you
do you forgive C have you found
forgiveness listen I forgive him
because he gave me more than he took
away from me
mhm if I can what kind of man am I to if
I can't at least acknowledge that and be
grateful for that he I he he gave me
more than he took from me and um I'm
grateful for that I'm also grateful for
what I gave him that I had you know that
I I did give him
some and um at that point in his life
you know
uh
place a place to
still to still have test tubes and um
chemistry experiments you know a
laboratory where you could still create
great fighter and I I helped give him
that I helped I helped I was part of
that lab and making sure that lab was
there and um just that there was the
existence of test tubes um in the place
because you can't freaking do
experiments without test tubes now
you're the scientist with the test tubes
yeah I I I guess so and um I I just hope
that um what I said earlier is is
really is really my
thread through this whole thing when you
say can you forgive cuss
um
I I'm still trying to forgive
myself
and if if I can have hope that I can
forgive myself I think that hope has to
start with the power to forgive someone
else how can I ever forgive myself for
all my failings and figure it out if I
can't start and practice
it by forgiving someone else for some
shortcomings and for
me that's that's that's the only sense
of sometimes a very hard thing to make
sense
of that that that's my Nord
star that's that's my compass CU used to
make me laugh you know me and him did
everything together we right and we get
lost in the city we get lost in a bron
and he get all frustrated and he said
Atlas you're a great trainer but you
turn you around you spin you around and
you're lost and I said me or we and
because I was the only one who would
argue with him and and it was really
funny some sometimes and I said we or me
you we or he goes I don't get cuz you're
lost I'm lost what are you talking about
out and then all of a sudden cuz
couldn't give in he just couldn't admit
he couldn't give in you know what he
said to me all of a sudden he goes when
I was in the Army if I had a compass I
could get out of the woods I said we're
not in the woods we're not in the Army
we don't have a compass cuz
cuz
just don't argue with me I one time
we're
driving I W I want to get back to CCO we
we just finished at the Bronx it's been
a long day yeah you know VIs in the the
murderers Inc houses and everything else
that that he took me through for the
18800 time and um and he would fall
asleep you know he was getting older and
he and he would just fall asleep in the
car so what do you think I went a little
faster right because before he went to
sleep he said don't speed so I don't
consider myself I try to be an honest
guy I try to be a freaking but yeah you
know it was the five what did I say
earlier try to do less submitting yeah
really in all faces try to submit a
little less try to lie a little less
today MH a little less try to get
stronger try to get a little
better so here we are and we're driving
and all of a sudden he's I what did I do
80 75 probably yeah probably
did you know whatever and um all of a
sudden wakes
up you were speeding oh I lie no I
wasn't don't
lie I'm not
Li you lied again you
speeding now come on this guy he's you
know what I mean he's
he's he's unbelievable so I gotta
freaking you know he's the he he's David
Copperfield I want to know the trick
yeah I want to know how he freaking he
made this thing disappear
so I said what are you talk how do you
know he goes cuz I timed you I looked at
the post number and I'm like what I
looked at the post number on the side of
the road where we were whatever miles
and and I never knew they even existed
yeah I look and I said yeah there's
Little Numbers he started timing and
fell asleep yeah he timed it he look he
goes we couldn't have got from here to
there in that amount of time unless you
were going 75 miles out like
all right I'm smart man all right I'm
impressed you don't try to get the
mileage the mile per hour part right
it's enough that you got me yeah yeah
that's enough
I'm yeah I said and I'm not going to do
that no more I'm you know and and just
he helped me in crazy ways where there
would be times where I wanted to be you
know where you wanted to be whatever
right convenient weak
submit right and then all of a
sudden all of a sudden CZ in my mind CZ
was there with the
stopwatch and and I'd be like you
know uh no you know where I was about to
say yes to whatever that yeah
particular situation
was somebody up there
call
hello hello
yes doing great thank
you just for the record never had a
phone call like this it's hotel security
the question is he asked me is are you
okay sir are you okay are we okay I
think
so I I think so so far yeah you know I
can only go like so far it's kind of
like that old joke you know where the
guy jumps off the Empire State Building
yeah he's fall down and he's going you
know 80th floor 70th floor 60th floor 50
he gets past the 50th floor and they're
looking him out the window and he goes
how am I doing so far so good I I don't
know where it's going to end but um so
uh Mike Tyson is considered by many to
be one of the great boxers one of the
greatest boxers of all time heavyweight
boxers uh what do you think on the
positive side made him great I don't
know if he was ever
great
I know he was
Sensational I know he was the greatest
mix of maybe speed and power
ever I know he was one of the greatest
punches from either side of the plate
left or right there's been great punches
with just the right hand like Ernie
Shavers and Deontay Wilder and Max bear
I don't know if there's ever been anyone
who could punch as good as he did on
either side with either hand other than
Joe Lewis and a few others I don't know
if there's ever been such a comb
combination of speed and power to that
pure level that he had and it was a pure
level I don't know if there was ever as
good a fighter as Tyson was where maybe
one night he was great where he wasn't
tested but he might have been ready to
be tested at one night against Michael
spings when he took him apart 90 seconds
I think I saw a great fighter that
night I don't think you can be great
unless you have
all the requirements of being great what
does it take to be a great
fighter truly
great to not rely on someone's else's
weakness to be
strong to be strong on your own too
often he relied on other people's
weakness whether it's the by being
intimidated or whether is because his
talent was so much greater than their
that it was like putting a monster truck
in there with a Volkswagen and the
Volkswagen was going to get crushed no
matter how much horsepower the
Volkswagen might have had under the hood
and you put under the
hood it was going to get crushed the
monster truck was not going to allow it
to be a contest
and to be able to find a way when your
talent wasn't enough he didn't find a
way when his talent wasn't enough and he
and I'm not making statements of I'm not
ready to put some evidence you know like
if we were in a courtroom exhibit a um
when he fought when he fought Buster
Douglas um Buster Douglas matched his
will and didn't get intimidated stood up
to him he didn't do what most people did
he didn't submit even a little bit not
that night he had in the past but that
night he didn't why because Buster had
buz had a secret weapon that night his
mother buz's mother had died a few
months previous he loved his mother very
much bust had always had Talent big
heavyweight talented could punch
technically
solid he was all those things always was
but he quit in fights he he he did less
than he should have done he never lived
up to his ability he gave in he
submitted he wasn't strong enough he
never had a reason to be strong enough
when his mother died he had reason
nothing could hurt him as much as his
mother dying hurt him Mike Tyson
included that night Mike Tyson could not
hurt him as much as his mother had hurt
him by dying that night he had a reason
to be strong for his mother and he was
strong he was everything he was supposed
to be and more and he stood up to Mike
and Mike for the first time maybe ever
was in a fight where he had to overcome
something where he had to be more than
Talent talented more than a puncher more
than a guy with scintillating
speed and he wasn't and then that night
got followed by another Knight with
Holyfield Holyfield wasn't as talented
as him as big as muder
puncher but
Holyfield had the
character he was strong in ways that
Tyson wasn't strong he was strong in a
way
where he could find a way he was willing
to find a way he's willing to go to the
cliff to to truly die before he
submitted you know a lot of stuff is
just wor yeah they're GNA have to carry
me out on the shield yeah sure sure okay
yeah until it comes time to be carried
out on the shield sometimes there's
people that actually mean
it you think Mike didn't have that well
all right he let's just say arbitrarily
I don't have his record for me let's say
he was 55 and five I know he had about
five losses all right let's say he was
55 and five right a lot of
Knockouts I have a saying a fight's not
a fight until there's something to
overcome until then it's just an
athletic uh exhibition contest yeah
who's a better athlete who's got more
quick twitch fers who's who who's more
developed who's in better this who's
who's more developed than those physical
areas
but a fight is not a fight until there's
something to overcome
okay so if you go by my definition not
Websters my definition but I think means
something Mike Tyson was only in five
fights in his
life the five fights where there was
something to
overcome and he didn't overcome it now I
know people hate me for this including
Tyson
I I understand hate me oh you're a hater
cuz you weren't with him you didn't make
the money because this because that
because you got
betrayed I think I'm better than that I
hope I'm better than that I believe I'm
better than that I'm not a hater I I've
broadcast fights for 25 years on ESPN
where there was some people in the
corner I did not like and if they did a
good job this guy's doing a great
job and then there were guys that I
liked and I had friendship he he he
messed up and we weren't friends no
more friendship got to be tested
remember that so we weren't friends no
more but why did I do that because it
was my
job it was more important for
me when when it's all over with the only
thing you're left with
is I mean we're going to be dust all of
us right the only thing we're left with
is what carries on our
reputation
you know Legacy whatever that is but our
reputation that's all we're left with
and that's all our kids are left
with I wanted to be as good as it can be
I've always had a ability I've done a
lot of things wrong and I've had a lot
of
lackings but the one strength I've had
if I had a
strength is to understand
somehow to I guess to learn the
lesson that was
important is not what's in front of you
for those 5 seconds for that moment in
life it's what's left behind you when
those 5 seconds are gone when that what
whatever it is that you're dealing with
you know whatever the that moment is
whatever that moment what you doing that
moment the action of that moment is
going to stay with
you and be you it's going to become
you what what you face for that
moment it's
gone it's it's gone in the air and an
instant it's gone it's done whether you
take whether you stand up there and you
get shot in the head and the guy
freaking blows your brains out or you
freaking you you stand up or you're
fighting a guy who's like an un a scary
guy to fight but you fight him and you
beat him or he beats you up
but how
you represented
yourself in that
moment is all that matters that's going
to live what happened don't matter it
don't matter that you guys shot in the
head I know that sounds
absurd but if you believe that it was
important to stand up and had take the
chance to get shot in the freaking head
rather than to live like an empty
vessel you know
what that's all that freaking matters
and somehow that got freaking wrapped
into this freaking head of mine like
that's what matters that's all that
matters you know how many times I went
and I I things whether it was with this
one with Tyson with that I didn't want
to be there I was scared to
death but I was more
scared I was more scared living with
regret how I would have felt yeah I
don't want to be in solitary confinement
in rest of my life with that freaking
guy in the cell next to me called regret
I don't freaking want to be next to that
guy if I want to freaking go down that
road I'll watch papon you know what I
mean and I'll get my feel from that but
I don't want want to freaking live it
I'm afraid of what my children would
think of me if if I fail in those
areas why
because that's forever when I'm closing
my eyes for the last
time I I don't want to have that fear I
don't want to have that fear you know
whether I'm going down there or I'm
going up there you know I I I laugh
because uh I I I was I was around guys
years ago that used to when we talk
about that you know in just you know and
um I we get a kick out of this this one
guy who been around the block a few
times um when he say hey Teddy I ain't
worried about that I got friends in both
places that's a good line and I yeah and
I thought it was a I thought it was good
uh listen Mike Tyson you want me to say
was a great fighter then you want me to
betray what I really you know what I
mean you want me to do that I ain't
doing it for listen I could do it to be
a bigger Teddy Atlas and I know it would
work for me I I know it would be do
great promotional work for me I know it
would it would make me more popular in
certain area I know it I'm not that dumb
not that dumb but I also know what else
it would do to
me and I don't want him to do that to me
I think he was a great talent I think
maybe the night with Michael Spinx maybe
the M Night with M maybe he could have
been that fighter maybe he could but he
didn't never really get tested but he
might have been ready no matter what I
have to be tested that night that's how
good he was that's how for even though
it was a guy who used to be a light
heavyweight I get it but it was still a
guy who beat Larry Holmes who still had
something left uh Michael spins so and a
great puncher um and an Olympic gold
medalist but and a special fighter one
of the great light heavyweights of all
time you know what Mike Tyson was he was
a meteor he was a meteor that struck
across and not too many meteors and we
still talk about himh and and and unlike
H's comment he came back and and he's
walking around and he's he has become
greater after his career more loved more
beloved more AED and he's been forgiven
he found the Fountain of forgiveness I
don't know I wish I could find that
where he has been forgotten for all his
shortcomings all the things that he may
have done may not have done we don't
know only him and God
know but he's been forgiven of all that
and he's been not only
forgiven he's rised above it and and
above that and been brought above that
he's been brought to the pyramids of
of of the greatest
athletes that in the world and in every
in every way in every way as a person as
a fighter as a
historian yeah as a
figure as a celebrity I mean even a
philosopher everything yeah so I will
take it back all right all you guys out
there you forgive me he's the greatest
of all time if you encapsulate all that
if you encapsulate everything I just
tried to describe um and explain if you
put that all he's the greatest of all
time yeah he is but he still might be 0
and5 in a record of 55 fights he might
in Teddy Alice's
book again I got friends with both
places so it's okay wherever I go I I
have company somebody there will like me
despite me saying this he might be on
fight because of five fights where there
was something to overcome which really
finds a fight he came he he didn't find
the
way let me ask Teddy Atlas to introspect
on the human nature here it's part of
the complexities of your feelings on
this whole thing is that you know to
some degree that if you were coaching
Mike Tyson he could be truly great
throughout I know Co I'm going to cut
you right off because you asked a
million dollar question I wish you
didn't but you did you did
because that's why when do I get paid
that's why you get paid I get it you
took the words out of my mouth that's
why you are where you
are and that's why I'm
here the humility I'm gonna I'm gonna
Again full disclosure it's important
right um I'm going to cheat I'm going to
take some of ca's wisdom all right a
little bit of mine
yeah um CZ told somebody that
that if Teddy Atlas got his way he might
have been a better person but we would
have risked him not being a great
fighter now I believe and I thought cus
did and I think he did up to that point
in his life that part of your strength
of character made you a great Fighter um
and truly a great fighter and part of
that battle to be a better person that
that fight if you will to be a better
person to overcome the themes to be a
better person um part of that fire you
have to go through to be a better
person I really truly bought into it and
I and I'm in for
life that is really the only way to be a
great fighter
and I don't think that's what cus
meant I thought he meant I think he
meant that CZ knew more than I did of
what was about to come and what would
come and what the world was how people
would try to steal him how people would
take him how people would steal his
guy the last thing he had to
really the thing that he lived for
because he lived to have another
heavyweight champ the greatest fighter
ever C and C's mine he could be and I
believe that CZ knew that
he he could put forward a guy that had
the ability to be the greatest fighter
ever without fully completing the
mission of what it takes to really be
great but that he wouldn't he wouldn't
be around to have to witness
it and that he
wouldn't he was will he would oh man
this is
awful he's willing to concede that he
might be dead
in order to have eternal life in order
to have greatness uh and which CU does
have greatness and part of that
greatness is attached to Tyson and he
deserves it he deserves it because was a
great
man and I wouldn't be here partly
without him but that was part of the
calculation I know that's deep and I
know that's oh God I hate myself right
now but
um but cuz he knew he was getting out
free he knew he was going to not have to
be there he was he was getting off easy
oh Teddy how do you say someone's gonna
be dead they getting off easy well I say
it again in case you didn't hear me all
right he he he was going to get off easy
and not have to face where he came up
short because he did his job because he
put forward the greatest fight of all
time and you guys screwed it up and he
knew that that might happen but you guys
screwed it up and and whatever that's
your fault that's on I tell you Tyson
will be mad at this but that's on
Tyson how could you say that Teddy he
loved me I'm not saying he didn't love
you but he loved him he loved some other
stuff too and I don't know if Tyson
could ever come to Griff's light with
that and and it's not his job to but
it's my job not to hide from it I know
cousin Dimensions that people
just only think they know did cus know
did cus know this about
himself they did he reflect did he
introspect well he sent a message to me
c sent a guide to me my wife was
pregnant we were living in apartment
apartment in catso on cill road we went
through all this I you know and I was
getting ready to move to stat
on and we still were there for a little
while before we did you know after all
this went
down he sent a guy to me to the house
secret whatever you want to call it my
wife
me
so I listen to
him cuz said if you leave I'm I'm a
messenger you know whatever if you
leave this was in a aftermath of what
the gun the whole thing you got to
remember Tyson was Award of the state he
was in C's custody cuz was looking to
adopt him for obvious reason so he had
control and and he loved
him how dare I say anything less I
won't but it made sense too but he was
Award of the state still do you know
what that means there's
rules means the state's still
overlooking it if he ain't living the
right life you
know you gota remember he came out of
you know he came out of of a jail
so reform school but if he ain't living
like he could be taken away from cuz
what's not living the right life well he
he wasn't in school no more they didn't
know about it um he he had some things
that were going on we won't get into
that right now in school and different
things
whatever and he had his trainer put a
gun to his head that isin't so good if
the report came back to them that that
happened he would have been taken away
from
cus that couldn't happen nobody knows
this mhm I talk about a little bit but
never probably because why would I I
don't know why am I doing it now I don't
know because I don't know because I am
because it's now because it's now maybe
maybe because is now I don't know so he
sent this
man that you know obviously we both knew
and he said here's the deal Teddy if no
talk about this wants it to you know
disappear basically you
leave and he will give you 5% his word
can you imagine he would he will give
you 5% of Tyson's earnings for the rest
of his
career and um but I don't regret it one
bit because it wouldn't happened anyway
see that's where I I could be honest
with my people say oh stand up guy
because I told him to shove it with the
you
know you know to in that place and and
um and tell cut to shove it in that
freaking play you know I was mad um
Teddy Teddy don't get angry don't get
angry are you out of you serious get out
of here tell them to go shove it
over and you know my wife was like huh
but and then people like after why
didn't you take the deal it wasn't a
deal it was an escape
clause for cuss it was it was a it was
an insurance policy that his you know
that this kid wouldn't be taken away
from him and thank God he wasn't I
wasn't going to go and say nothing they
didn't have to worry about cuz forgot
who I was cuz forgot why he went to
court for me because of those because of
those characteristics that he said he
loved and he noticed and that that he
admired I didn't lose those Char he
forgot that that was me he forgot who he
was talking to he didn't have to do
that how about that's why I told him to
shove it up his not because of the other
insult yeah and then and then when
people said to me oh you would stand up
because it was around a little bit it
was around in the circles and then were
people oh stand up Teddy he he didn't
care about the money I said stand up
Teddy what are you talking about how how
about how about just realistic Teddy how
about I live in a real world that I was
never going to get that money so I'm
saying I'm standing up to something that
I knew never existed so I ain't stand up
not in that way I am in other ways maybe
but not don't don't put a metal on my
chest for that because because that
never existed yeah it was never meant to
exist but he didn't even understand that
was the one thing that that really
disappoint me in cuss I was like cus you
really allowed this to get to you where
where you where you've allowed it to
really fog up your thinking to the point
where you're smarter than that you're
better than that that you would actually
think you gotta freaking offer me a
freaking pieces of silver yeah you
really think that that's what you freak
you like all that you told me that you
love me and that we you I was the young
master and that all this and and you
think you were going to buy
me and I was going to and that was going
to keep me quiet how about I would keep
quiet because I would always keep
quiet so he thought maybe you might
betray him isn't that interesting
yeah and why did he think that no no
really fear yeah but yeah fear is at the
essence of everything is connected with
everything fear of losing what he was
going to lose but it was more than
fear it was him not believing in the
things that he told me he believed
in he didn't even know
that he believed in me because I was a
standup guy because I because I didn't
sell myself because because I you know I
didn't freaking turn evidence I I didn't
make a deal I didn't do and and that's
why I went to court that's why he stood
up for me and I appreciate it and that
was what he lived by and that was his
you know those were the blocks of being
a
man oh so much for those
blocks well it's like you said loyalty
requires uh you know he would have had
to take a
risk on losing immortality that he would
achieve by creating that's the only
heavy 100% but the only way you ever
find out if somebody is that hard it's
hard it's the test yeah and it was cuss
this is Shakespearean you know this
story CU told me cuz said and it does
come in different forms yeah I said all
right CZ this was his test and and some
people pass this test because they're
able to pass that test because it's not
really a test not for them because it
doesn't speak to their weakness but it's
the test that speaks to the weakness
that's the
one so this one I get it I get what it
spoke to cuz and you know what at the
end of the day I forgive
you and I feel bad for you
I feel bad that you were put in that
position after you lived your life that
way and that you that you taught that
and you preach that from the
mountaintops that that you had to
be that you had to
be I'm not going to use the word
but that that you had to fail yourself
and that you had to somehow know that
before you died I just pray that you
didn't know that and you still don't
know that because you were great you are
great and um and you've given me
some you know you're giving me something
to to Aspire
towards to try
to try to be less weak
try to be
better and try to be as good as
you want it to
be I wish I can
someday more importantly I I wish I
could make my
father you
know feel
um just feel good up
there your grandfather now
yeah for
grandchildren what uh if you can give
them advice on how to uh live a life
they can be proud
of just
um do everything you
can to the best of your ability every
day to like yourself
to give yourself a reason to actually
say I'd like to be friends with that guy
is loyalty one of the
reasons one of the things to Aspire
to loyalty is your
chance to have a fulfilled
life loyalty is your chance to to have
strength to have all the things you need
to have a good life to be a good parent
be a good husband be a good
grandfather hopefully be a good role
model
loyalty
is loyalty is if you could find
something to
drink to take into your body
to make you prepared for life to to be
all the things that you want to be to be
strong enough to be those things loyalty
would be the thing you would
drink and and when I say
loyal I mean unequivocally I mean you
know
unconditionally not conveniently
obviously you know
that if you could be
loyal you could be a good person you
could be a person that you would
actually like to be
around because you could be a person you
could rely on and I think that's one of
the
greatest assets that a human being can
have and what do you do when you're
betrayed how do you overcome
that you think of what you learn from
it use it as a road
map to remember and to think back of how
you got
there and how you got to the place where
you got
betrayed and how that person got to that
place try to remember that in your own
Journey has it for you made you cynical
like how do you try how do you take the
leap of trust
towards people again and again after
that just by remembering that I'm still
trying to forgive myself
for the things that I came up short with
and if I haven't figured that out
yet it's probably
okay to um to
say they didn't figure it out yet they
didn't get it at they didn't figure it
out and if I couldn't figure it out and
I'm still trying to figure it
out maybe I could get over
that initial step stabbing of uh what it
feels like it does feel kind of like a
stabbing that you that you feel when you
betrayed initially and that you can only
think of of
anger Revenge hatred um and those things
I'm not I'm not proud of that but I'm
but I felt all those things you know and
I still fil them sometimes and then I go
back and say hey you're still working at
forgiving yourself for some things
try to remember that kid you know mem is
an important thing forgetfulness is it's
pretty important too and um try to
remember why we
forget why do we forget because it
wasn't something you felt proud
of you think about your death are you
afraid of it you know it's funny you
asked that I never used to to think
about
it I know people in both places you know
I know got it
cover you're going to be all right don't
don't forget that I know people in both
places yeah
um both neighborhoods
I I I
um
I've been I've been given credit for
being brave in certain spots in
life I hope I can be brave when it comes
time to leave
life I hope I can be you know and and
that's you know that's just as real and
honest as you can be about it I hope I
can be you know so far so good you know
when when I've had to be certain things
that was scared to freaking death um I I
found a way to beat them for the most
part and um so I figured when that day
comes I'll figure that out too it's
going to be another test maybe the last
one
Teddy it's a huge honor to talk to you
no it's my pleasure thank you for being
the human you are for being honest
honest about the full range of human
nature and thank you for talking today
thank you thank you for having me and
um thanks for
listening thanks for listening to this
conversation with Teddy Atlas to support
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me leave you with some words from
Muhammad
Ali I hated every minute of training but
I said don't quit suffer now and live
the rest of your life as a
champion thank you for listening and
hope to see you next
time