Kind: captions
Language: en
how would a kangaroo attack a human
knock them down and then they choke him
the kangaroos do they attack each other
yeah they don't choke each other you
don't believe me you don't have
I mean probably the most annoying one
was obviously the one where I had Gordon
and Amber I was like tap bro and he
wouldn't have so I let him out
I didn't get surgery I didn't do
essentially at your rehab I just have no
ACL with my left leg so what's it like
having a surgery because you've got two
options surgery rehab only Nikki goes
I'll do nothing yeah yeah I mean what
could possibly go wrong if you're the
world's best Grappler hates you and
you're gently provoking and behind the
scenes every day well I mean in Texas
and you've stolen his brother held him
for ransom it is like a story of a
shitty Western the last part of a
difficult wake up for me is I try to
find a sad movie and at least cry about
a pound out that really gets me of the
line what are the rules on the streets
do you think if you're on stairs you
would have finished the joke I yeah I
mean for sure who knew that The Cure
to the dagestani wrestling
with the Aussies
the following is a conversation with
Craig Jones Nikki rod and Nikki Ryan who
together with Ethan krellenston and
others make up the B Team a legendary
Jiu Jitsu team here in Austin Texas it
was formed after the so-called donahar
death squad the team headed by John
donoher split up continue with Jiu Jitsu
and B Team Jiu Jitsu both located here
in Austin Texas
there's been a lot of trash talk back
and forth including accusations of
greasing and steroid use
and I as a practitioner and fan of
grappling Jiu Jitsu and martial arts in
general and here for it
to see the best Grapplers in history go
at it both on the mat and on Instagram
I like the people on both teams and
train with both and am really happy to
see the exciting rapid evolution of the
sport that these athletes and coaches
are catalyzing
this is the Luxe Friedman podcast to
support it please check out our sponsors
in the description and now dear friends
here's Craig Jones Nikki rod and Nikki
Ryan
Craig can you introduce everyone
yep so we got Nikki Rod here Brown Bell
two-time 80cc silver medalist Nikki Ryan
here
that's it
okay who are you and I'm Craig Jones
also a two-time 80cc silver medalist
silver medalist so the number one loser
number one loser and maybe a little bit
more your bio says widely known as the
black belt Slayer hails from New Jersey
the land of pizza and biceps ah yes
that's pretty accurate okay you also do
carry gun on you a lot yeah I keep I
keep it keep it loaded you know anything
on me you have one today uh in the car
that was a mistake that was your first
mistake yeah I think you're too close
uh and you are Nikki Ryan what else is
there what else do we know Gordon Ryan's
brother Gordon Ryan's brother
[Laughter]
all right so and you're all together uh
part of the leadership of the the B Team
here in Austin
let's just get out some introductory
questions what in general accomplishment
of the things you mentioned you're most
proud of I mean I'm proud just to not
have to work a full-time job just to get
by on the bullshit I've done so far yeah
honestly just making money of a thing
you love exactly yeah when was the first
time you made money on a thing you love
uh probably a jiu jitsu tournament I
think maybe in Abu Dhabi where I won a
thousand dollars thought I was rich yeah
yeah would you spend a thousand dollars
on
probably something bad probably drugs or
something at the time maybe blew it at
the after party
that's a good introduction to Craig so
what about you when's the first time you
made money with anju Jitsu or what
what's actually stepping back like
what's the thing you're most proud of is
it a similar kind of thing I think I
think I'm most proud of is uh I mean for
sure two 80cc silver medals which hurts
because you're so close to getting that
gold but uh you know it takes time I'm
understanding that you know supportive
Jiu Jitsu takes quite a while to be at
the tip top to be the absolute best so
uh and I'm just being consistent in my
training and my craft and you know get
that number one spot one day what
failure or loss is the most painful to
you
I don't know I could probably have a
pretty short-term memory so my losses I
just like I'll just forget about uh yeah
I mean for sure uh my loss at at this
past 80 cc in the finals you know that
one sound good because I definitely
thought I I was gonna win I mean like it
takes a while to produce the skills or
the reactions more so that you need to
to have to be you know to be that number
one pound for pound guy
um and you know uh pre-adcc I was coming
off an injury so it took me a little bit
to find the right mentality and
physicality that I needed in order to
you know get the wins that required gold
so yeah it's just process
interesting you keep saying process like
it takes a while to build up so you're
not like thinking of a loss like ADCC is
like uh a specific failures you're not
you haven't gone long enough in a
particular process to being a champ well
I mean for me I'm coming I'm closing in
on five years of specifically Jitsu
training I'm about about four and a half
right now and um yeah it's just the you
kind of you constantly have these ups
and downs in training where like as long
as you stay consistent you'll have a
gradual race but you know it's still
you'll have these uh Peaks and lows and
you know just just trying to get better
every day I'm definitely not where I
will be in in a few years in a few years
from now but my striving to get there
are you actually a brown belt was that a
joke Brown bow yeah you're a brown bow
like how many stripes uh no Stripes no
Stripes stripeless okay is that part of
the process that you're working through
definitely probably process I mean I
think a black belt is just based upon
how much knowledge you have obviously
like you know if it's talking
competitive wise like from when I
started I was able to beat most black
belts that's just kind of how I was
gifted from my my wrestling experience
and uh you know the time will come when
it's right but I'm not in a rush at all
I'm I'm continuing I just kind of take
every day for what it is and try to
improve upon that I mean I want to give
him the black belt Nikki Ryan says he's
not ready
are you guys like us no gee folks do you
take that seriously like the black belt
or like how much does it come into play
into yeah I mean it's like if you're out
said you know it's based off of
knowledge
um not just you know what you do out on
the competition match because you know
like he said he had years of wrestling
experience and obviously he's very
physically gifted uh so we grade based
off of the amount of knowledge that you
have
hey how do you measure knowledge
I think teaching is a good measurement
of it like how well you're able to show
the moves um and you know really make
sure that you have an understanding of
what you're doing that's an interesting
rank it's like um it's something that
takes many years to accomplish and for a
lot of people it's truly meaningful it's
like it represents
a particular step in a journey
but for you guys it's almost like
different because you've been so focused
on competition
that I guess if you take it seriously it
is a big step for you too like it's
martial artists that that's bigger than
just being like top of the world
competitors right so I thought it was a
joke you guys are actually taking it
seriously like studies of Rambo there's
a brown belt and he's and you're taking
seriously the rank of black belt and
like it's part of it's part of your
journey think about time I get a block
about I'll I'll be no more pound for a
pound I think it'd be pretty uh nice to
accomplish that as a brown belt and then
maybe toss the black belt on top maybe
get promoted on on the podium
what do you guys uh do you love winning
or hate losing more
I definitely don't hate losing if it
pays the bills I don't mind oh really um
yeah but honestly if I win I feel more
relief than anything rather than like
excitement and stuff I'm like oh fuck
thank God that's over you know I hate
losing for sure
um but I understand that it's necessary
to get you know to get to where you want
to be
um and then winning is like I mean what
I think winning is probably the closest
you can think you can get to like heroin
or something because I mean we're on a
like if you do have extreme success in a
torment that you've been you know
adamant about training for and competing
in for a while and you end up winning it
I mean I feel like you're on that high
for days at a time afterwards heroin's
gonna be better you think so I'm I'm a
stick with no but I'm not gonna sucked
in to win
okay
I guess that's a good boy yeah
but you know like uh because you you
come from a little bit of a wrestling
culture one of the things I really love
is at the end of the match when they
lose they just there's no they just run
off
they're like almost pissed off it's like
some mixture of anger and frustration at
themselves I think I think sometimes
that people like freak out on the mat
and I think that's just a to show
everybody like they're acting like they
cared a lot and really maybe they didn't
work uh enough to to you know get to
where they want to where they expect it
to be and they lost and then they had
this big boost of emotion like after
their after their loss but uh yeah I
mean I shouldn't I think you just cry in
the mirror and not to everybody else you
know
um what have you ever cried watching a
movie I don't think I've ever cried
period okay have you cried watching a
movie not yet not yet The Notebook I try
to avoid those but it's actually I lie
actually Titanic the last part of a
difficult wake up for me is I try to
find a sad movie and at least cry about
a pound out that really gets me over the
line low energy cutting the tears
[Laughter]
um there's other following uh liquids I
could talk to you about but let's just
let's just let's just continue on low
energy what uh
um what about you Nikki uh love of
winning versus hate of losing I'm a very
competitive person so I for sure hate
losing more than I like winning uh I I
do think it's something that's kind of
held me back over the uh the past few
years because uh it makes it so that I'm
not as active as I should be because
it's like I really hate that feeling of
you know after a match that you just
lost uh so it kind of prevents me from
competing so it's definitely something I
need to work past so like when you think
about a competition the possibility of
losing which is always there in
competition is the thing that like
weighs heavy on you in in the months and
weeks leading up to yeah my whole life
you know my financial stability
everything depends on you know my
ability to go out there and compete and
my ability to teach uh so you know it's
it's a huge hit to the brand if you lose
so you know leading up to matches that's
that's definitely something that's in my
mind I know so you guys are like
world-class athletes but for me more
like a hobbyist competitor I compete a
lot
the thing I was uh because I really
wanted to win the thing I was probably
most afraid of is not just losing but
like embarrassing myself yeah even even
actually winning by stalling that was
the thing I hated the most about myself
in terms of crying in the mirror it's
like being too afraid
you take risks after I'm up on two
points or something I think you got a
competition sometimes it's good to take
the emotion out of it it's too easy
sometimes to like uh think about all my
girls and in the crowd my family's
watching like I want to win because
they're there but the highest level if
you're emotional at all no that's
affecting you
yeah that's tough though
that's tough especially like leading up
to when you're on the map maybe but
leading up to it I think it's okay to be
emotional prior like you know if we know
80cc or is coming up and we have a big
match like definitely I'll go out in
practice and I'll I'll visualize I'll
put myself in that competition that way
when it's game time it's like I've been
there a thousand times already so not
the actual competition but even leading
up to it like stepping on the mat like
all the walk the walk towards it all
that all that stuff like I'll do the
same exact warm-up for weeks on end and
until my competition day comes that's
why that way you know when I compete I'm
just like oh it's another Tuesday I
practice
uh what about you Craig how do you
prepare mentally for tournament like
ADCC I push it completely out of my mind
don't even think about it try to avoid
any visualization any rituals warm-ups
anything like that block it out until
the last second yeah try not to think
about it I just gotta training to have
fun learn a bit so I try to approach
competition the exact same way I don't
warm up a training do very little
warm-up for competition
uh-huh and uh you just step on the mat
step on the mats My Philosophy is
there's no warm-ups on the street
we're so vastly different
all right uh so you look legit don't
warm up no I probably should now I'm 31
but I would just like in the gym take it
easy the first round you know like if I
look around the room and Nikki Ryan said
I might go all right we'll have an
easier first round today uh
so even for like the most high stakes
matches
you try to push it out you don't even
think about it
what about like all this social like
Instagram posts you have to do about
that match you just make a joke out of
it and kind of yeah I mean that's
actually kind of pretty silly you know
we're just wrestling each other you know
yeah we put the meaning into it but to
someone that doesn't follow the sport it
looks stupid well all of human existence
is pretty silly like what are we doing
none of us really know what's going on
we'll kind of have sex to reproduce we
get hungry we eat and then we're all
chasing money in cars and whatever the
Hell in a capital Society or we worship
a dictator in a authoritarian regime
yeah and then we get off on we'll let
power abuse us and then we just murder
others because we get off on it yeah and
then eventually all of us will die
because the sun will run out of energy
because colonizing other planets is very
difficult so not what matters it's a
good uh good philosophy it's pretty
pretty good that's exactly how does the
sun run out of energy
they called me there
uh it's burnout it's like a it's a
nuclear fusion engine that eventually
burns out like when you get tired of
training yeah it's never happened I try
to get tired I was like dude it's like
it's not working
all right cool so you legit don't care
about losing it doesn't weigh heavy on
you I try not to list like if I win I
try to block out all the compliments all
the niceties and stuff so I try to do
the same with losing it's happened move
on to the next one you know don't dwell
on it too much and sometimes make a joke
out of it yeah exactly winning or losing
with the right joke we can make money
off of the events that's transpired
that's what's most important excellent
thank you I have a bunch of your merch
oh nice thank you this one's the Jordan
borrowers ripoff
uh all I see is silver
the way pronounce boroughs is is very is
very very sexy okay
um I throw lions at people and I try to
guess your reaction like sometimes I'll
say something to Nikki and I'll be like
all right that's probably crossing the
line you know I mean we'll turn it down
to the public so yeah yeah so it's not
just right you have to think this is
crossing the line yeah yeah I get as
close to it as possible yeah I feel like
you can't really and then cross it
just just a little bit just a little bit
yeah okay
speaking of which uh you said that I'm
Switzerland in World War II since I'm
friends with both you and Gordon and
John
uh are you a Hitler or Stalin by the way
in this analogy would you like to be
Hitler or Stalin and should you make a
t-shirt out of it or I mean an Aussie
t-shirt I don't know how well that sells
yeah I think it would you know I think
that let's brainstorm on this one
offline
I think since Hitler lost so you got
second place in World War II yeah that
makes you Hitler anyway uh in to the
degree that you can
can you tell the story of how the time
you've had with the Donna her death
squad and why you split up I competed
against Gordon for ADCC
and ebi in 2017 and I remember I
competed against my ADCC and then we had
the Ebola event and then I had a Kasai I
used to compete all the time every week
I wouldn't even do the prep preparation
or anything I'd just be like trying to
do seminars make money and then jump in
and compete I remember I showed up to
Kasai after I faced him twice and there
were like four locker rooms and they put
me with all the DDS guys it was just me
and all of DDS and I think we competed
the week weekend before so I thought it
was going to be super awkward but it was
actually it was actually pretty chill
and the Kasai was in New York and they
suggested to come train that week so I
came trained hung out with them a bit uh
ultimately the goal was to move to
America and join a bigger team just
because that flight to Australia's death
Australia is so far away from everywhere
it's kind of like not realistic to base
yourself in Australia when all the
tournaments are in America and then I
went and trained with guys and they just
had a massive uh massively deep talent
pool in that room like show up to like a
meant to be 7 A.M actual 8 AM class uh
on Brazilian time it'd be like 100
people in there maybe I don't know how
many black belts but a ton of elite guys
and I was coming from Australia
um training with Lachlan Giles but
really that room was pretty shallow and
like most people had serious jobs and
stuff so it was like basically me just
trading with Lachlan maybe a couple of
other guys and then to go to New York
and have access to a a wide array of
training partners and guys that are
training twice each day I feel like
that's what you really need you need
people that can train as much as you are
we're humbled humbled in that room at
first for sure because my style at the
time was basically a rip-off version of
what they were doing yeah leglocks came
in I remember just watching Eddie
Cummings Non-Stop and just seeing this
guy rip people's legs off and I was like
you know what that's probably a good
move you know that looks like an easier
path to Victory than trying to beat
these guys at what they what they're
good at already you know My Philosophy
at the time was if it's bothering old
Brazilians yeah it's bothering them for
a reason yeah it's probably effective
and that's the path I took to sort of
try to rip off their moves and then
obviously to go into that room try to do
them to them it's going to be a bit more
difficult
all right so that's how it started
how did you end up here how do we end up
here we're in Austin Texas I mean I like
to think of Puerto Rico as Apocalypse
Now John Donahue as Colonel Kurtz
things go very weird in the jungle
and the teams went in two different
directions
but honestly I mean it's not really my
story to tell I had some uh issues with
some of those people at the time of the
split I got along very well with John I
feel like me and him connected very well
I don't know why that was maybe it was
just because of the he missed homie
missed a familiar accent Australian New
Zealand accent uh
but I mean I basically followed Nikki
left with Nikki sort of that Core group
of guys left with Nikki and I mean I
just back there was personal problems
and I just backed Nikki basically got it
just sticking on you for a bit is there
a part of you that you know finds it
heartbreaking that DDS split up this
part of you miss working with John and
everybody
now can you still man the case for that
I mean I miss certain aspects of it but
I also do prefer the freedom of being
apart from it it's obviously a very
strict regime under John danaher you
know obviously as parts of it I miss the
past the public doesn't see off John the
behind the scenes banter I feel like
he's very conscious of the image he
portrays to the world but basically it
closed doors he's always making jokes
always finding I guess more in line with
the Australian kiwi sort of culture but
you don't really see that in the public
class so that perspective I do miss that
relationship with John in terms of
setting aside personal differences
Gordon was a good training partner
definitely a good training partner to
train with uh but obviously the negative
things we can't really talk about
outweighed all of those things and we
obviously had to make a decision to
leave but yes that happened in the
jungle the things happen in the jungle
they'll never be spoken of but I
personally cannot speak up yeah but
obviously I do miss certain aspects like
I mean not nothing's all bad nothing's
all good you know
yeah this goes back to your like uh
everything we're doing is silly yeah
exactly that's why I didn't get people
to take it so serious martial arts so
serious just
it's just pretty stupid really
especially in the key it looks just
it looks bad and then I mean it's pretty
silly with with and without the ghee
it's just a bunch of Apes what's silly
about no game what's silly about the
ghee and just mixed and matched bottoms
there you know what I mean wait which
one yeah I see what you're doing
brother
you come to my house I defend my people
all right
you know this is we're gonna go to every
dark place apparently
um Nick how did you get with uh DDS like
what was that Journey like is there uh
try to see if there's things that you
remember fondly that that you've gotten
from the experience all right so the way
I started um training with DDS
um initially I was training for like
well initially I was I was a bouncer
right I was I dropped out of college to
pursue this uh Fitness modeling career I
end up signing with a Willamina models
up in New York and I was like trying to
get in better shape and while I was
bouncing kind of the talk of like you
know who stuffer came up between the
wrestlers and a few of the bouncers to
train Jiu Jitsu and uh you know they
convinced me go to a practice and and I
went to my first practice over there and
uh I for the most part I just controlled
everybody got on top of them was able to
avoid like kind of like you know shitty
submissions because I had I had an
awareness of the sport and you know I'm
a fan of fighting and whatnot so um you
know I kind of understood it pretty well
and then soon after that I joined a
school and my second week of Jiu Jitsu I
started competing had pretty good
success you know I was like subbing a
few black belts and beating everybody
like you know pretty decisively with
points and stuff and about three months
into training locally I got connected
with uh Gordon Gordon Ryan and John
Denver up in New York and I started I
committed to you know make the drive up
there as many days as I could at the at
the time I live in South Jersey and I
was about two and a half hour three hour
drive without traffic to New York to
where where in South Jersey Gloucester
County
um Clayton New Jersey specifically but
Gloucester County yeah so it was about
is about about 130 miles and without
traffic you know about two and a half
hours or so but on the way back man we
it'd be three plus sometimes you know
catching that Rush Hour what year was
this do you remember this was in 2018
for a bit I forget how young you are
yeah I was there before before all that
all right cool uh anyway you're doing
the long drive and then and then and
then what yeah doing a long drive and
then uh you know once I won 80cc trials
I was able to make a couple bucks and
then you know I got my silver medal 80cc
and I was able to afford to live up
there in New York and in North Jersey
area so I lived up there trained there
full time every day and uh you know just
kind of sucks with the team throughout
throughout the turbulent times and found
ourselves in Austin in the jungle in the
jungle in the things we shall not speak
of
what uh what are there things that you
remember that you've learned from John
Donahue from your Italian spent with him
yeah I mean I definitely learned a ton
from uh from John and the team as a
whole like uh you know it's you have to
be the guy that asks questions in in the
type of environment right because
there's not it's not you're not going to
get singled out to be that specific uh
like star or the the best guy in the
room when you have all these other you
know stud athletes so I really had to
seek out and and figure out the kind of
questions that I needed to ask and um
once I became a bit more verbal with my
training and you know uh I I'm showing
I'm I'm expressing all my Curiosities
about grappling to these guys definitely
help boost my uh boost my technique and
my career as a whole yeah did you
understand what kind of stuff like
technically you want to get good at what
fits your body what like what would be
good for you what are your weaknesses
and all that so initially and when I
started grappling I had an innate
ability to just get to opponents back so
I was like all right I'm gonna I get
into back let me get let me perfect
controlling the back and then submitting
opponent via real naked choke
um and then besides that I really focus
on leg lock defense and then eventually
came the variety lock password you know
I'm uh I'm really good at body like
passing my opponents now and then and um
yeah just takes a quite a long time
because you have to find uh different
sequences and then there's always these
uh an abundance of opportunities that
your opponent gets from these specific
sequences so takes a while
is there part of you that finds the fact
that DJs split up heartbreaking
um I definitely you know having one
person to go to that runs practice every
day that's you know consistent
um it was definitely it was definitely
definitely a gift but now I'm also
gifted with many many other partners
have Nikki Ryan
um you know Craig Jones
yeah yeah uh we have Ethan Cruella scene
Damian Anderson so a full team of
knowledgeable athletes that I can
continue to go to with uh multiple
questions but yeah definitely definitely
uh it took me some time to adjust to to
training or to learning from you know uh
specifically my team and not just one
person
we should mention for people just
listening because you can't visually see
that Nikki Ryan is currently terrified
and Craig Jones is currently enjoying
but anyway uh can you talk about your uh
Nikki can you talk about your time with
DDS I started training when I was like
around 13
um you know my brother Gordon had
started prior to me and uh I really just
went into training just as like a means
to exercise and lose weight at the
beginning because I was pretty fat as a
kid so I went to the first class loved
it and then just started training every
day at uh at Gary's gym Brunswick and
then during the summer when I get off
from school they would take me up to New
York to uh to train under John
and you know I just absolutely loved it
I knew what I wanted to do with my life
at a young age so I ended up dropping
out of school actually after my my
freshman year in high school so yeah 15
I ended up dropping out and just
pursuing Jiu Jitsu full time uh you know
training every day up in the uh the blue
basement like what aspects of Jiu Jitsu
was
um made you know that this is the thing
for you it was just something I just
enjoyed being you know like on the mats
every day I love that there's you know a
problem solving aspect to it
um so it's you know it's mentally
challenging it's physically challenging
helps me get in shape so I just yeah
right off the bat I knew I loved it
okay so uh then we'll go to the Jungle
what happened in the jungle
and in general like uh
I like this I like this this is like
this like shroud of mystery that she'll
never be penetrated that should never be
like we've got a book deal it's coming
Monday obviously left high school he's
not riding him
uh okay I'll do the Russian translation
okay
so what are what are things that you
enjoy that you remember from working
with John Donahue yeah I mean you know
obviously he's considered one of the
best coaches in the world
um you know very charismatic guy when
you see him in person uh you know I
pretty much was you know kind of raised
in the DDS you know that's where I spent
the the majority of my time every day so
I obviously had very deep connections
you know with John my brother uh Gary
um you know even Eddie Cummings and
stuff back then
um so obviously I miss interacting with
those guys every day and uh you know
it's like they said it's it's good to
have somebody to kind of crack the whip
at you every day uh and John John was
very good at that when you're like
younger in your teenage years you can
kind of you like have to get humbled
right there's like a process to that
yeah for sure and uh it's a pretty good
room to get humbled in I guess yeah
exactly I mean I I was uh I started
training with them just when like
everybody started to break out Gary was
like the biggest name at the time uh
just because he had 180 CC trials
already and uh he had a crazy match with
KRON at uh cron Gracie at ADCC but Eddie
was just starting to break out Gordon
just started winning ebi so I I started
training under John you know right when
when everything was exploding
what are the good things about life
about Jiu Jitsu you learn from your
brother both me and my brother never
really wanted to you know work a
full-time job doing something that we
hate
um and he was always you know a very
confident person so he just went you
know full fully started pursuing Jiu
Jitsu
um so I'm very happy that you know he
did that and I ended up following in his
footsteps because you can ask these guys
I'm a lazy sack of shit out of outside
of the the uh the mat uh so that's
that's definitely one thing that uh I'm
very grateful for
that he paved the way like you can you
can make money doing stuff you love yeah
exactly and he was he was a big reason
you know why my parents uh eventually
let me drop out of school because you
know when when they were coming up there
was there's no money in the sport it was
very hard to make a full living like if
you wanted to actually make a living
you'd eventually have to transfer to MMA
and I feel like Gordon and Gary and
those guys were you know some of the
first people to make a very good living
off of Just Jujitsu but this part of you
find it heartbreaking
that you've split up from DDs but also
from your brother in terms of spending
time on the mat every day yeah for sure
you know I mean growing up you know
obviously he's my big brother I looked
up to him a lot uh so I definitely like
I said I miss interacting with those
guys I was pretty much raised you know
in that blue basement you know that John
was like you know a father figure to me
um so I definitely you know miss miss
seeing those guys every day
do you have animosity towards Gordon and
does he have animosity toward you and uh
what is the source of that and do you
think you'll ever be able to forgive
each other
definitely initially during the uh the
initial split we definitely hated each
other at the beginning
um but it's definitely started to uh to
calm down actually just prior to you
know all this social media drama that's
going on currently
he had reached out to me and I was
literally like the first time that we
have actually talked since uh since the
split happened so he didn't talk to each
other for was it now like almost two
years
um and that was the first time that you
know we interacted again and um overall
you know he wasn't you know aggressive
towards me I wasn't aggressive towards
him you were cracking some jokes so
hopefully the the animosity is going
down
there's this uh Godfather quote
that I wrote down obviously rewatched it
uh from uh from the dawn from Don
Corleone Vito Corleone the strength of a
family like the strength of an army lies
in its loyalty to each other is there
some aspect of family that you miss of
the blood that kind of connects you that
you can count on yeah my parents you
know they both raised us that you know
like family is everything you never you
know betray your family or anything like
that uh so I definitely you know miss
him from time to time okay imagine
you're like 40 years from now
sitting on a porch with a shotgun
drinking whiskey looking over like all
the land you've conquered
looking back to this moment is the
reason you split up a bullshit reason
or is it a good reason from the
perspective of the king who has now
conquered the lands have proven himself
have done everything I think it was
definitely like a justifiable reason for
the team splitting like it just with the
way things were going it just was not
going to work with you know all of us in
the same room together it was a started
you know affecting training people
didn't feel comfortable and things look
so I definitely think that it was a
justifiable reason to split
the things that happened in the jungle
yeah to be told about in the book so
give me an audiobook or is it just gonna
be who's gonna voice it might be a play
a musical yeah on Broadway
um how's your singing voice mine's not
so good but Nikki has a beautiful voice
does he of an Angel like a head bet okay
speaking of the the social media drama I
should mention that I've talked to
recently to Gordon a bunch
I've talked to him about talking to you
guys and he's had nothing but really
nice things to say about you Nick Ryan
and he has had nothing but bad things
what were some of the things
[Laughter]
um
well let's just go to the social media
first because
the the Social Media stuff that he said
publicly is just like a warm-up it's
like uh foreplay I guess so Gordon sent
you nicarad
flowers for Valentine's Day uh posting
on Instagram quote I've been fucking him
in every round in competition since we
met in 2018 the least I can do is buy
him flowers
we didn't get the flowers yeah
he sent it to the wrong address he did
yeah what do you think he sent it it was
close but it was wrong did you
appreciate the Romantic gesture I did I
was looking forward to the flowers and
potentially chocolates in there but uh
you know it was a bit of a letdown uh
can you describe your recent match
against Gordon uh the ebi match okay so
ebi match on UFC Fight Pass it was a 20
minute match
and uh immediately uh no match starts I
pull guard and then I stand up he pulls
guard and we have this uh kind of like
back and forth where he's trying to dig
for under hooks trying to get on top of
me and he can't really find success uh
and now and and then in the midst of me
trying to work my body lock pass uh
going to be able to underhook a leg and
we end up in a leg entanglement and then
I'm able to transfer that leg and Tango
to a 50 50 position still like still in
the leg entanglement uh from that 50 50
position I'm able to uh separate his
feet and and actually get a few pops and
he actually said I broke his foot in
that exchange with a toe hold the Toe
Hold yep and uh you know after after
that uh um we had a a bit more I was I
was just being uh working on top
position trying to get my body lock time
runs out and we go to overtime and over
time can you hold on a second actually
what does it mean to break a leg was I
was very confused about okay so is this
like a expression or what do you mean
what are you broken which part breaks in
a Toe Hold okay so in a Toe Hold uh
there's a few different grades of it
like you could get a a few pops and have
some have some you know walking issues
um and people consider that a break and
then you could break it fully and have
your foot be like a limp noodle you know
I think what were those Achilles well is
the front of the Achilles or something I
mean probably the ligaments I mean it's
funny like a lot of people say they
broke something but like to me you break
bones you tear ligaments so I would
imagine you probably had a great three
tier
grade three how hard do you think is it
I always wondered that with um with like
a straight foot lock how hard is it to
break the shin or like the actual bones
versus the tear stuff depends how many
steroids they're on
and obviously how much Euro you're one
of the few guys that I have actually
broken bones in competition uh uh yeah
have I oh yeah a couple yeah wow which
bone did you break
a spiral fracture of the fibula
how did you break it oh it's a heel hook
if any always used to say heel hooks
don't work leglocks don't work but
unfortunately age gets the best of all
of us I think he had some mileage on
those ligaments yeah and the bone I
guess yeah so it's actually what the the
bone yeah his ankle like disconnected
from the tibia and the fibula but the
fibula definitely snaps pretty bad
though nice facility
the Dynamics of that okay anyway they
went into overtime what happened in
overtime okay we're having overtime
let's see trying to hang oh okay I go
defense first uh whistle blows I'm able
to escape in like 17 seconds and then
immediately after I go on his back and
he gets out in exactly 17 seconds I'm
like shit all right I thought I had a
good start and then uh he gets on my
back right after that and uh he's able
to ride me out for pretty much the
entire round
after that he uh I got back on his back
he escapes him maybe like a minute and
some change uh I think where I went
wrong in the overtime is I should have
went I should have been less adamant
about chasing the submission and more
aware of collecting time if I kind of uh
diverted my attention towards acquiring
you know time on the clock it would have
been you know more my favor but yeah uh
at the end of my uh overtime round I
would I'm able to lock up every naked
choke over the face but there just
wasn't enough time to fully finish you
know I got a few seconds of squeeze in
there I didn't have enough uh time to
adjust then
good do you think if you're on stairs
you would have finished the choke I yeah
I mean for sure for sure if you're on
gear it you're you're changing the
biology of your body right you're
adjusting your DNA for sure if I
adjusted my DNA I mean it's a finish
easy you're implying you're a natural
athlete oh I'm definitely not a
triathlete yeah
heavy implication
okay uh so for people who don't know
that the ebi rules it's an interesting
rule structure where the overtime you
put yourself in a in like the worst
possible position and the task is to
escape and then the other person gets
the same thing uh what do you guys think
about that rule set I I like it just
because
I first of all I don't I don't like the
idea of having to put somebody on my
back but I do like the definitive answer
in the match like either you escaped in
time or you got you know written out so
the absolutely like you have a you get
to the final winner that's great I'd
much rather have that than a close
decision and it kind of goes other way
what about you I mean honestly there's
all the different rules when I look at
the Rose sets I just try to think of
what rule said I could beat that
individual in and I sort of geared
myself towards that
that's really the strategy there I think
there's some guys that like uh that
stall a lot that you would love to have
ebi over time with at the end you know
they're stalling until they have to give
us a good position but then there's some
guys that are so good in those positions
I'm like oh maybe we just do a regular
match you know what are the rules on the
streets the streets no time limit
yeah that's one of it there's also like
concrete and cars biting biting yeah
bulking
yeah so you don't like that rule set are
there some people you would prefer in
the street as a rule set me probably not
uh I don't know the ebi I mean It's
Tricky you know it depends on the
opponent which rule said I'd want to do
uh what about Unica what do you think
about the rule set of ebi yeah so I
think ebi is is very good from a
spectator point of view you know people
find it uh very entertaining to watch
um you know because your people want to
see submissions and you're putting
people you're putting the athletes in a
position where you know you have like
the highest percentage submission in the
sport so obviously you're going to get a
lot of submissions
um
my issue with it is it is a rule set
that allows somebody that's overall
worse at Jiu Jitsu to win a match you
know a guy can go out there and just
stall and just get completely dominated
for the entirety of Regulation and then
he gets to start on the guy's back so
that's that's one my uh my one issue
with it but also I mean it's interesting
to see
like the best people in the world have
to be put in a really bad position and
to see how good their escapes are for
example yeah it's interesting yeah but
but it doesn't feel like uh realistic
it's it's a fun thing to watch but it
doesn't feel like
the real fight yeah it feels weird
I'll claim it if I start in overtime on
someone and finish them I'll claim it
but if they submit me and over time I'm
lost you're going to deny yeah it's good
the issue is people like stalling to
just win the overtime so where you got
this guy his whole training camp is just
not get subbed and and win the overtime
it's a bit boring
by the way I have a rose behind you if
somebody gave me a Valentine's flower so
if you if you missed the one from Gordon
I got one for you well I'd appreciate
that I think it's good to feel love yeah
all right
um
so what did you learn from that match
like a takeaways technically speaking
like what uh what what do you need to
work on well I learned that uh I am
pretty good
yeah pretty good uh I got a you know a
few I know exactly what my weakness is
you know it's the the leg lock
department and I'm doing I'm doing a lot
um to to you know get better in that
specific aspect in defense attack I
would say yeah but attack defense
re-attacks
um even if I wanted to offensively enter
leg you know I could use some work there
as well
um but I feel like once I solidify like
um my like if I come up become a black
belt specifically in the leg lock
Department I feel like I'd be
unstoppable
if you
Nicki Rod definitively beat Gordon Ryan
how would you do it
uh what's what's the definitive like
conclusion on on that joke does it work
it's a it's a choke that you do when
you're in a uh what's the opposite of a
dominant it's not submissive in a
non-dominant position of bottom of side
control yeah just embarrassing it's a
mission to get caught with really yeah
but does it work it works on certain
people
for the listener he glassed over at
Nicki Minaj it's embarrassing but it's
also what it's a way to frustrate the
the opponent for sure yeah it's a new
part of the sport I feel like the
rotolos brought it back into fashion and
even if you don't get it because it's
one of those moves that's so
embarrassing at the first sign of danger
the top guy abandoned ship and you can
basically retain guard by attempting a
very embarrassing City so the threat of
embarrassment yes everybody people pull
out very quick to avoid
suffering the consequence of things I
think some people underestimate how uh
good of a submission it is I mean like
once you're locked in there there's not
too many defenses for a buggy joke
are you is there an instructional on the
way from you on the j-rod actually my
little brother has one oh yeah for real
you're actually legit have
oh wow
that's awesome we'll check it out so I
mean there is I mean you're making a
joke out of it but it is a real like
there's a system to it I mean yeah I
don't know if we call it a system it's a
good move
I mean you take an opponent uh that was
just winning in a in a in a greatly
dominant position and then boom in that
same position they're pretty much
they're losing you know it's uh it's an
interesting move what's the name of the
uh what's the name of it it's called The
Buggy media like Jay Rodriguez okay the
the bugapedia I thought there'd be
something like very Craig Jonesy about
it okay awesome uh I know you don't want
to sort of reveal the secrets of what
you're working on but in general dude
what does it take to beat Gordon I guess
okay it would have to be some kind of a
joke I think any joint lock or anything
like that he's just gonna let it break
and stay in the match so I don't even
think he'd tap from like a uh Arena
could choke I think I would have to put
him to sleep so um putting him asleep is
how it went so Gordon is somebody who
really hates losing yeah like he won't
even happen though in the practice room
I remember like I had a hold a couple
times in practice room and he was just
comfortable like working there I'm like
I'm not really putting much on it I
think he just you know maybe because of
situations like that in practice he kind
of didn't respect my tohold's ability in
in uh competition you've done that to me
in the practice yes I have yeah yeah
I'll give you a little give me a little
pup and then he let go
it's a mess
okay
um is there some part of that you think
is necessary to be a champion is to like
this almost unwillingness and
competition attempt I think it's
definitely something to be said for
people that are just like uh you know
willing to go that extra mile or to take
that damage to secure their their
victory
um is there part of you that like would
hate to tap or hate the tap yeah I mean
all of me hey what hate that yeah oh the
whole part of me uh isn't there a John
Legend song like that all of you and all
of me very romantic yeah yeah we're
sticking on that theme okay I'm sorry uh
oh one of the things uh Gordon uh asked
I forget how he put it because I think
there's a lot of words that would need
to be censored involved but he said ask
them
um how it feels to have a zero five
record against me with four submissions
combined I mean first of all I wasn't
sure he could count to five yeah that's
an impressive thing
um oh and five I mean I will say one
thing nobody beats me four times
[Laughter]
I love you so Lex I did have a question
I did have a question for you
there was some controversy on your
Twitter
about a list of books yeah and I was
wondering
why Gordon's book wasn't featured
amongst that literature well it was only
the first
30 books or like the first 20 books it
would of course be in uh something
interesting about Gordon he's the first
author that's written more books than
he's read
pretty good uh
if you if you face someone beat them
what like what's your take on what it
takes to be Gordon I mean you guys kind
of joke and they go pretty pretty hard
recently uh on each other but as a fan
of jiu jitsu
I'm all in on this rivalry it's just fun
to watch I mean first of all I don't
think I go really hard with him I think
Gordon is he's pretty sensitive you know
I mean he's looking for a large insult
in a small insult and for me like
Australians we just attack each other
all day every day and for me like if I
see someone that takes himself very
seriously that's like blood in the water
that's funny to me to me if I can just
gently provoke and get a strong reaction
that's hilarious like Aussies we will
just attack each other and the first
person that gets upset he kind of loses
the exchange so I think that is very
very entertaining like if you were to
beat Gordon would the mental game off
the map be part of it
I think it would be a fact of a show but
I mean I'm never going to come out too
crazy direct with him you know like I
don't I can't I find that like if you
get too upset online and you're going
crazy I find that I'd be embarrassed to
do that myself obviously each everyone's
different everyone has a different style
you know but like yeah I think mental
the mental aspect would play a big
factor I mean
mainly because if I were to beat him
I would send him a message every day
until I died yeah just to gently remind
him but I got the last one the last one
it's all that matters
so like once you beat him you're going
to run for the rest of your life
I mean run but look back yeah with
messages
right ride your horse into the sunset
okay uh oh by the way you've talked very
lightly you've talked shit very lightly
against Alexander volkanovsky's opponent
very lightly have you received death
threats or how's how are you still alive
like Gordon I would say people from
Dagestan of take a joke very well you
know really
do they really no I like boards oh sorry
I'm slow now let's do aggressive mode in
my head now honestly I'm listening to
you Islam was pretty cool I wanted to
Stir It Up a bit you know because like I
felt like that was a massive fight and I
probably should have had more attention
than it was receiving so I wanted to
just gently Stir It Up a bit I feel like
sambo guys are in the same vein as catch
wrestlers very sensitive you know like
obviously there's only three people in
the world that did catch wrestling sambo
maybe 10 to 15. so I figured we could
really provoke them with that sort of
Jiu Jitsu sambo stuff Islam took the
jokes very well the Russian fans not so
much are very serious there's not many
Smiles in Russia you know
um they didn't take it as well I'm
trying to suppress the anger the rage is
building up the side slowly
um so you guys mentioned steroids I like
that you bring that up after we talk
about Russia for the record
smooth Segway there I did not condone
the statements
um
but I I would love to travel with you to
Russia that would be a good time yeah if
you might get killed with me now
no I would be the like the first to to
turn to backstabbing like I got him
all right
um are most of the top Grapplers on
steroids
I mean it's hard to say you know some
people look like shit and they're on
steroids some people look excellent and
they're not upstairs it's so so hard to
tell but that seems to be the the
general consensus that a lot of people
are steroids I'm always a little bit I
don't know I'll be honest I've never
I've never seen anyone take steroids
I've never taken steroids I don't even
know that's the right term to use or
like trt any of that so I'm very careful
like to not let my naive Vitae like
um lead me to take conclusions but I do
feel a little bit weird about the Witch
Hunt nature of it that some people a
little bit too eagerly claim that others
are on steroids just because they're
successful
um but at the same time it does seem
that a lot of athletes will do whatever
it takes to be successful yeah I mean if
it's well it doesn't test you got to
assume most people are gonna do it and
especially now as more money comes into
the sport you've got to assure more
people are going to do it you know I
generally like do agcc and like just to
test it's actually encouraged what's
encouraged okay
you get a pamphlet okay they don't test
there's no testing they test to make
sure we're on steroids because obviously
it's a big show for the UFC fight Plus
in the future you don't want anyone
coming in out of shape very nice do you
think using steroids in that kind of
context and sports is wrong like
stepping stepping away if it's not
illegal I mean do you think ethically
speaking I like to assume everyone's on
stairs don't have to feel bad about
using stairs myself yeah
do you use them you use all of the
steroids I'm over 30 years TRD you know
that's the medical definition
that's the medical okay
uh I'd like to meet your therapeutic use
you know I therapeutic right
um like how do you just feel about it I
mean it is cheating for sure whether
they test for it or not I think it is
cheating obviously some people are going
to say oh fuck everyone's on it uh I
should be able to get away with it makes
it even playing field you know but it
kind of becomes Rush from your leg
because it's like if one guy's taking a
small amount and the other guy is taking
a huge amount he's gonna reap huge
rewards in the short term probably be
dead pretty early but die a champion
mind you you know what I mean so it's
like I don't know what that one is yeah
yeah what do you think about that do you
think do you think it's worthy to take
health risks I think if you're just for
the glory I think if you're 40 about to
die looking at a cabinet of gold medals
for wrestling other men it's probably
not going to hit the same way on your
deathbatch you know
sorry in which direction
like is that a good thing or not no part
you're probably gonna feel like oh fuck
I probably wasted a bit of Health on
that you know you think so
isn't that isn't that like the glory of
it
like you said other men yeah yeah yeah
well I mean like you know maybe wrestle
a woman as well
what'd you do with with Gabby on
Valentine's Day what did you take her we
filmed some new stuff for only fans for
only fans we never stopped working
says the love affair is also a work
Affair okay I don't know I I there's
something too that made like like uh
Olympic gold medalist accomplishing like
the heights is sacrificing everything
just everything the first 20 30 years of
your life for this silly little piece of
metal I don't I think there's something
beautiful to that that's like conspires
a lot a lot of people and that's like
the height of the human condition in a
way like if you survive I'm just saying
if you're in your deathbed early in life
before we all die all men die
but not all men truly live how many of
you how many years are you willing to
shave off for a gold medal that's a good
question how many how many are you
willing to shave off for a gold medal
well you're for silver medal for silver
I mean for silver medal I'd shave a few
off I think two Silvers makes a gold
worth five years
five to ten maybe yeah
shove off the Bad years enhance the good
ones you know well I mean you've
sacrificed you guys sacrificed a lot a
lot of your life you continue to
sacrifice oh you don't see the sacrifice
it's fun I think training's fun being
adamant about it consistent gives you I
mean we I think we have a great routine
great ritual definitely enjoy the
process
all right well do you guys know this is
Bro Science or or I'm talking bro
scientists but do you know how long
steroids stay in your system
forever forever oh because hey once you
do it y'all want it yeah
just the knowledge yeah all right I
think it's I think it's different for
each steroid right I think some of them
last longer than others it depends if
it's a urine you would think I would do
a little research before this asking
these questions why do you think most
athletes and coaches don't talk about
steroids
like why is it such a like a secret why
is it so embarrassing I think they
probably talk about it like amongst the
team and whatnot again I mean it's so
it's going to be more shady if it's like
a your your sport is tested or not we're
kind of in the Wild West in the in the
grappling world you know yeah but why
don't Grapplers talk about it
because it seems cheating I mean it's
it's kind of insinuated as a bit of
cheating even if it's not like uh if
it's not tested I mean still you're
you're taking a person that could you
know maybe has good Jiu Jitsu good
mechanics you putting them on the leg
and they're subbing you with a heel hook
versus breaking your leg with a hook you
know something as subtle as that can
make you know big differences all right
this is gonna make me sound dumb but is
it possible that steroids are not a huge
help in grappling
I think if you're bad at Jiu Jitsu and
you do steroids you're going to continue
to be bad at Jutsu but if you're great
at gear I'm sorry if you're great at
grappling if you're great at grappling
and then you also do gear it's going to
enhance what you're already you know
good at to make you much better but like
how much is the enhancement I guess is
the question how much is is muscle
valued right like if you're a question
if you're doing gear and you're not
changing weight that much like maybe it
helps you a little bit but if you know
you're gaining 50 60 pounds of pure
muscle and it's like that's a huge
enhancement that's another human this
this muscle a small human yeah uh does
does muscle matter in Jiu Jitsu I guess
is the question is it possible that it
gets in the way I say muscle matters but
technique matters more I also think that
it it'll help you develop technique as
well because obviously you know
testosterone helps with recovery rate so
if you're on gear you're able to train a
lot more now that being said if you're
not able to learn obviously it's not
going to help in that aspect but if
you're somebody that knows how to learn
and get good at Jiu Jitsu and then you
add gear on top of that you're able to
do significantly more sessions
throughout the week okay and by the way
gears there is steroids yeah
I also think that you don't have to be
as consistent uh in like your sleep and
your food and stuff if you're if you're
on gear you have a little bit of leeway
um but I mean being consistent in your
diet and your sleep definitely would
would help you know the process since
you use most steroids of any athlete
I've ever met do you think steroids
Jiu Jitsu oh man I think obviously it
helps recovery in your ability to train
well but I think some I've seen some
guys go on steroids and then suddenly
they feel like the Incredible Hulk and
now in the training room they start to
rely more on strength than the
techniques they had and actually in some
respect Hinduism and make some gas more
in competition because then they're
using more of the muscle they never used
to have
so you've implied that you're a natural
athlete
you said that you said that skeptically
is this something you do for for social
media to talk shit to Gordon to imply
that he's not a natural athlete well I
only uh pretty much recently on social
media I had this rebuttal you know
saying that you know Gordon's on gear
and I only said that because after after
our match in in the our most recent
match you know the ebi rules match he
accused me of greasing which is like
lubing up so I'm slippery during our
match so and you did not I did not I was
checked multiple times before and after
uh our grappling event and uh he still
you know went out and accused me of this
so I was like all right as opposed to
telling a lie I'll just tell the truth
about you know your steroid use which it
shouldn't be that big of a deal in
retrospect because he kind of admitted
it and whatnot previously
um so it's uh yeah I just kind of felt
like I had to rebuttal and I I didn't do
it immediately because I was like all
right I know I have this podcast planned
so I'll wait to do it on you know my
friend uh Mark Bell's podcast you know
be a little more more get a little bit
more exposure on it and uh yeah I knew
he was gonna bite the babe I didn't
think it was gonna you know bite the
baby that hard I I know he's a little
stressed out about about the comment but
you know and that was the origin of you
guys going back and forth on well it
wasn't so much back and forth it was
just I went forth and then he kept going
back back like I remember one of one of
my guys DM me and they were like
Gordon's made like 68 Instagram stories
and 67 of them were all about you I was
like all right well I'm in his head for
sure got us a few followers we
appreciate it we did we did get
followers he even shouted out or RB team
Wipeout program so thank you yeah
uh okay uh speaking of which uh uh
what's the B Team how's it run
and why is it called the B Team
well I mean Craig was there a team
for me bees for best okay best all right
what does B stand for for you what does
it represent what is the ideal like the
you know uh Miyamoto Musashi
philosophical Foundation of B Team aim
low and achieve
if the bar is set low you can't help but
win okay that's Nikki's philosophy with
women as well said the bar incredibly
low overachieved so what what is the B
Team how do you guys run it like what uh
yeah I mean can you just talk about the
school how you found it what what what
what is it uh what's it like I mean
pretty much just a regular uh Jiu-Jitsu
gym we started a as sort of a prose only
purple bone above
um team and we have me Nikki Rod Nikki
Ryan Ethan Damien
um as coaches am I missing someone
impeccable memory yeah and we got JB
coming on to teach wipeouts but just
your stock standard uh Jiu Jitsu team we
focus on uh more we lean heavily towards
the professional athletes side of things
we have a lot of uh high level guys in
there yeah class structure regular
instruction and positional aspiring open
rounds but we sort of took a a heavy
slant on marketing side of things we
really try to blow up the YouTube
channel
um obviously we sell a lot of clothing
merchandise and stuff so yeah we just
sort of took a modern approach to a
standard Jiu Jitsu gym because I mean
Jiu-Jitsu gyms are full of some of the
most boring human beings on Earth so we
try to hide long words guys young strong
highlight the other side of things you
know keep it pretty light-hearted it can
be fun yeah the Jiu-Jitsu can be fun I
guess that it could be cool too you know
it's not just full of steroided up
autistic people you know question from
Reddit
quote need to hear some of the stories
about drop-ins that led to the making of
the gem of a video the do's and don'ts
of training a B Team any any fun stories
and he wants to stand out do you guys
remember any police involved ever we had
a guy coming back to kick him out he was
stalking two of the members uh yeah well
I mean that's just crazy people you know
like I portray a pretty insane image
online and I guess I am that a lot of
the time but at training try to keep it
while training around training I'm
insulting everyone but while training I
try to keep it pretty serious but
obviously the image of betray Lou is in
some of the the crazier members I mean
like the thing is about the the Jimmy
guys run is is really professional it's
like friendly it's like the
light-hearted joking is there obviously
the you know like shit talk and all that
kind of stuff but like it's it's a
pretty safe environment yes but the
public persona
might attract some some Maniacs yeah I
want to say which places I'm trying to
but it's obviously some places you walk
into the room and it's very very serious
yeah there's no Smiles around obviously
it's probably average training room in
Russia but no Smiles very serious
environment you know what I mean and uh
I definitely don't like that I don't
want to show up to training and be
walking on eggshells not no other
coaches moods like that day I want to go
and have a good time
keep it light-hearted what was in the
video what are the do's and don'ts
because like the address is public like
anyone can show up anyone can show up
yeah what would the do's and don'ts does
anyone challenge you like to fight
no yeah no yeah I mean probably from
other gyms in town they're probably
that's probably coming down the line but
um do's and don'ts I'm I'm all in on
that I'm I'm I would be excited as a fan
to just watch I love the drama
not the drama no no well a little drama
a little Drop of Poison is good
um but ultimately it's the the best
Grapplers in the world kind of um going
at it yeah as fun
because I may maybe I'm wrong but I
think there is an underlying deep
camaraderie at the end of the day when
you're like at the top of the world yeah
and you're like in the same town what
could possibly go wrong it's like a
shitty Western but like an epic Western
where like Clint Eastwood like the good
the bad and ugly
of course I love it I'm I'm here just
eating popcorn like that staring in the
pot
I'm not staying in the box
that one for sure yeah I mean what must
we go wrong if you're the world's best
Grappler hates you and you're gently
provoking and behind the scenes every
day well I mean for sure in Texas and
you've stolen his brother held him for
ransom
it is like a story of a shitty Western I
think you know a lot of weight belts to
train with you what's it like to open it
up to a bigger audience uh we haven't
opened it up yet but it'll be
interesting to see I mean I I feel like
your higher belts they really understand
what the training room is you know what
I mean wipeouts early they're trying to
find their place in the gym could be
kind of awkward and stuff in that
environment so I think obviously those
white belts coming in will change the
dynamic but the white belts will have a
separate white belt classes obviously
for them because giving it such a high
level gym it be tough a beginner to be
able to enter the more advanced classes
who obviously we're teaching more
Advanced Techniques so yeah we've
separated a y belt program I believe 6
p.m on better Friday yeah maybe we'll
have a Saturday one as well but it'll be
interesting to see how it goes we're
trying to do things different you know
like trying to do your traditional
Jiu-Jitsu gyms obviously you're not
going to teach beginners wrestling at
all we're trying to split it at least 33
top game bottom game and wrestling so at
least create more well-rounded athletes
from day one whereas I feel like most
traditional Jiu Jitsu gyms might have no
gee once a week that'll touch wrestling
very IBG Jeff heavy techniques but again
the Sports changing for sure just to
take that on how does a beginner get
good at Jiu Jitsu like given that you're
starting this way but what's your
philosophy on that obviously you buy all
of my instructionals yeah at full price
yeah not during a sale okay that would
go a long way for those of you who are
Russians I'll give you I'll send you
instructions for all the forms so you
know how to how to steal it yeah sure I
bought them all so I'll just send it to
you we do I mean we do have the Maca
Chev 50 discount code you know yeah
offering discounts to help him out for
the rematch I got the nice
picture
uh well I got 100 discount for you if
you need it but that said you're
instructional are both hilarious and
Brilliant and it's one of the most
respective instructionals oh thank you
with incredibly great names yeah it
probably loses me sales honestly due to
removing the seriousness I think it's
gonna kind of suck it's gonna be some
funny
um gimmicky thing oh I mean some people
don't even know if it's a real product
that's a big hurdle I have to over
conversation they see it and they're
like is that a real thing that's a
problem but how does the Wipeout get
good I think they just I mean just have
to show up you just have to put in the
effort uh try to focus on using
techniques and training rather than just
fighting to the death you know
although that is entertaining for us to
watch to fight to the death yeah but
what are the techniques you should focus
on like what's the process what does it
mean to show up like how much drawing
all that kind of stuff like what it well
if you were to optimize the first six
months of a of a beginner there's a lot
of people who listen to this and haven't
tried they've been curious I have a lot
of friends who haven't who are like
you're just too curious they're
constantly looking for an excuse to
start I think it's just got to be as
simple as possible you know like we
shouldn't be teaching more advanced
movements I mean obviously in the grand
schema thinks this highly Advanced
Techniques and then they're slightly
Advanced and I think trying to teach
those guys real specific positions even
like real specific types of God it's
just beyond them I think the best way to
learn is through problem solving and I
think if you show the technique before
they've discovered that problem
the learning is sort of held back so I
like the idea of using
kids style games
to show them a problem and then use the
techniques to fix the problems they've
just discovered I think that's the best
way to learn can you give an example of
a problem to show them before you give
them the techniques like what are we
talking about all right so say you
wanted to teach uh posture in wrestling
you could create a game where one guy
the game might be get to a leg or get to
two legs control the leg like super
simple but the rules the constraint
would be one guy is forced to keep
upright posture and one guy is forced
will not force but he's allowed to keep
a bent at the hips lower posture and
obviously within the that constraint the
guy with the better posture is going to
have more success he's gonna have a
better posture to secure a leg or secure
both legs and therefore you've
demonstrated the flaws of bad posture
without having to explain it to him
before they really tested that out okay
and then the result of that you would
realize that the the bent over posture
is better yeah you have that aha moment
rather than just being having it spoken
to you
uh you wrote Craig I'm a big fan of
constraint based learning I guess was
just what you're talking about I love
presenting beginners with a problem
before the solution like here attempt to
hold side control with no with no cues
on how then I see how the guy
got out and addressed issue by issue
cross face and hip control and so on
okay so what are some other examples
like side control yeah that would be
excellent one side control like teacher
like obviously we say oh you secure a
crossfire so they can't turn into you
much easier to have them try to hold
someone down without explaining what a
cross face is and then use that
technique to address the problem they've
just encountered so I think you could do
that with a lot of areas of Jiu Jitsu
like even more advanced say 50 50.
obviously a mirrored position where you
both have access to each other's heels
most people are still out of that
position and keep their feet crossed I
think a great constraint for both of
them you can't cross your feet now you
have to learn how to uh slip the heel
hook when they expose it and how to
safely re-attack of your own so the
constraint is you can't be too defensive
in that position and I think the learn
the rate of learning increases why do
you think the rate of learning increases
like why do you think that works because
you can counter more problems say in
that situation they're going to get you
healed a lot more in whatever period of
time you allocate the drill for than if
the legs across I don't think the hard
part splitting the legs to get to the
submission I think the hard part
practicing control while they're trying
to slip it out of later stage and then
obviously trying to slip your heel when
you're in more danger also makes you
more comfortable in that bad position if
you're used to doing it with open legs
yeah I think that probably that style of
teaching forces people to focus on
because it's so easy to fall into
focusing on like memorizing a particular
details of a technique without thinking
like where the hell does this even work
and if you don't have that you could get
to focus on like from like as cliche as
it sounds from first principles like why
the hell
how the hell do I get out of this like
why does this even work why does
wrestling work why do you have a bent
over posture you get those like start to
ask those kinds of questions
which is kind of interesting because
it's not obvious to me that bent over
postures is the right posture for jiu
jitsu right
I'm confused actually about that I don't
know about the correct posture yeah for
jiu jitsu like what's the right answer
I think Ben overpost is still good for
jiu jitsu even with the Judo and all
that like why are so many Jiu-Jitsu
people like at a high level the posture
is higher up
well I think the I think wrestling
posture is just a bit too low because
it's not necessary right if wrestlers
are like low enough to the ground where
your hands can touch the mat uh but in
Jiu Jitsu you know it's a it's kind of a
mix between like wrestling and like uh
Judo or or Greco-Roman wrestling so
um I think it's just a bit more more
relaxed and it's it's bent over but it's
not upright and it's also not super low
you know a bit more room for attitude
because obviously the uh Jiu Jitsu guy
shot isn't going to be as athletic as
quick as a wrestlers especially wrestle
with shoes so it actually comes down to
the fact that Jiu Jitsu people just on
average even at the top level are not
good at shooting
I think so yeah I think obviously I mean
all the wrestlers in American stuff
they're starting super early super young
you know what I mean they're they've by
the time they get to the same age we are
really uh announceable and stuff they've
spent much longer doing the actual sport
and the average Jujitsu and then there's
another level of wrestling of course
with the
of the Soviet block that's just
unachievable for your car
an Australian rugby yeah a former rugby
player rugby is that kind of like
American football but much less money is
that what that is much less money much
tougher I would say but yeah who knew
that The Cure
to the dagestani wrestling
were the Aussies with the Aussies uh
okay let's go there
the uh your your friend your training
partner Alexander vulcanowski you helped
him prepare for the Islam marketev
versus vulcanovski fight who do you
think first of all won that fight
that's a tricky one how is that the
tricky question I will say when uh when
I was a shit talk you've been doing how
is that
when I was in the corner going into the
fifth I personally believed live that uh
vulcanovsky probably needed a a finish
to take the victory but you have to
think that way right in general or
you're like legitimately it's a great
area because the judging who knows plus
I was like wait we're in Australia
where's this bias you know we've got
some Australian judges here I was really
hoping we give it a bias yeah
unfortunately not hopefully they lose
their jobs but
again yeah it was it was a close one I
think sometimes you're blinded in the
moment because again everyone counted
vulcanovski out the crowds behind him so
everything he does is going to get a
huge cheer your bias towards the smaller
guy you buy us towards the underdog so
you sort of whatever the underdog does
has a bigger impact in your mind and
sometimes they can bias as the fight
goes along but yeah super super close
fight I got I would really love them to
have a rematch uh but obviously that's
going to hold up both divisions so I
don't know if they'll be able to do it
do you think they'll do a rematch soon I
mean that wasn't that was an epic fight
I was listening to the fake companion
during they all thought uh so they
biased strongly the the opinion round
two was the the tricky one yeah round
two is the tricky one anyway I'd love to
see that like uh running back and do
three actually there's an epic fight uh
what was the brief conversation you had
with Islam marketev and his team I
didn't know how we take the joke because
obviously khabib tried to Flying Eagle
kick Dylan Dennis in the face so I
wasn't sure how my humor would go yeah
but I mean Dylan must have said some
worse things to me I was just playing
around I mean you can't really take
anything I say serious yeah come across
like an idiot but so what he was coming
up to me afterwards I was like oh I
don't know what he's gonna say and again
maybe he would have been more upset if
he had lost but he had just received the
judge's decision yeah but he came up I
went to check he's saying he gave me a
big hug and then pretended to throw me
and then I thought the interaction was
over and then he circled back so that's
why I was so awkward I was like oh he's
coming back he wants to say he wants he
wants something else but he just said
why didn't you teach your boy how to
escape the body triangle
oh wow interesting what did you say to
that I said well I mean obviously you've
got to learn how to finish a real naked
choke is that what you said
uh and I was laughing but then I should
have sat they were like get out of here
before the Aussie crowd attacks here you
know what do you think about the body
triangle position that we're in it
seemed like for the first time he was
almost like walk was yeah it did
dominant in that position which is kind
of weird I mean damage is meant to Trump
control
MMA judging damage is the number one do
you think the the judges saw that who
what do they score that as I think they
all scored four towards Islam yeah three
and five uh two of the judges scored
towards Volks one of the judges scored
three for Islam one it was 49 46 uh for
one of them and the other ones were
48.47 I think they're
again the confusing round was around so
I don't think anyone scored the body
triangle round for Volks which I wish
they had
uh volkanovski was and is still arguably
Palm for upon greatest fighter in the
world how long have you known him I
don't know the first one I met him
before he was in the UFC when I used to
live in Melbourne he came down to train
it absolute yeah and then we really
connected on Ultimate Fighter he one of
his guys who's going to bring Tottenham
a fighter Brad rodel pulled out last
second so he called me when I was in
Puerto Rico and he's like do you want to
coach on tough for five weeks and like I
said Puerto Rico was Apocalypse Now I
was like yeah get me out of here so I
took jumped on that opportunity and we
were in Vegas five weeks together
because he was meant to fight Ortega and
then he got hit with covert real bad
uh got stuck in I think he was in
hospital for maybe one to two weeks and
then before he flew back to Australia
they were like all right maybe we just
do you guys as The Ultimate Fighter
coaches so I jumped on board with that
and that's really when we've become
close yeah obviously I was useful in the
Ortega fight help him get out of
submissions
he fought then Korean Zombie Max
Holloway I basically just held the
bucket at that point in the corner a
couple striking uh fights and then again
yeah we had to tackle the Islam problem
so I did spend five to six weeks down
there preparing for that how did you uh
tackle the Islam problem
how do I attack was you somebody who
barely knows anything about wrestling
having to because it doesn't take much
you know yeah especially wrestling
wrestling uh did the beard help or like
what like in all seriousness what were
some of the key ideas you that you
worked on
with vulcanovski to prepare for it I had
the help of Frank Hickman Hickman was
down there too one of the Hickman
Brothers uh wrestling coach so we were
sort of like problem solving and I mean
basically we were confident in Volks uh
fence wrestling his cage work he's super
good on the catch super like uh under
respected in that position and we knew
that if you were able to take the
scrambles to the cage he would be
effective against Islam because again
Islam is background of sambo of
Freestyle Wrestling but I mean honestly
he's probably got the same experience on
the cages folks obviously some of those
uh wrestling skills would translate very
well to the cage but the cage is still
somewhat of a gray area an equalizer
invokes again incredible ability to
stand up incredible defense on the cage
which you saw we worked on strategies to
get up and a ton of submission defense
Islam loves kimura's obviously reenacted
from the back arm bars those are sort of
and Armstrong dominant submissions but
again the guys he submitted
not grapples
apart from Charles Oliveira and again
Charles Oliveira was basically knocked
out at that point so I was still
impressed if he submitted him but again
I always told people this they thought
it was crazy I was like Charles Oliveira
versus Islam in a grappling match
Oliveira is going to win that match
like submission grappling submission
grappling yeah so if you were grappling
skill set I think Oliveira is a more
dangerous Grappler so we didn't even
come into it thinking Islam was this
Unstoppable Boogeyman that people make
him out to be
so we approached it from that just focus
on the techniques
ability to get back up using Turtle to
get back up using Turtle to scoot to the
cage to get back up and hand fighting
from there keeping it pretty safe but
what makes Volks so special I think is
his gas tank gas tank and his willpower
he's just unbreakable the dagestani guys
khabib Islam they are good at
submissions but okay they break guys
mentally and they fatigue him and then
they take the submission that's offered
Oliveira is a guy that can jump on
submissions and have an incredible
technical ability to finish those
submissions whether you're fresh or
you're tired and then you combine that
with falconowski who incredible
willpower never gets tired you're never
going to break him and as you saw he
only attempted one submission the whole
fire is that learned is that trained or
are you just born with that that mental
toughness it's a good question I mean
he's like an anomaly like the entire
fight Camp not nervous at all supremely
confident the whole fight week
completely confident he just has an
attitude like oh everyone cast me out
we'll see you know what I mean Islam
he's like let's see no doubt no doubt at
all super relaxed up until about five
minutes before and then he starts
stamping himself up he's like you are
not taking this belt from my family gets
into that sort of mindset he actually
says that out loud
you can't teach that survival he didn't
even take a fight you know
have you guys ever been like pushed to
the Limit like that or broken in a
grappling match
uh I'll do it in practice like I'll push
myself to like I don't think it might
pass out or die or something like as far
as like uh how tired you get you know
because like in a match
um they try not to ever get close to
that anymore yeah you try to because you
know it's important to understand uh
where you're exhausted exhaustion point
is
um but yeah if you have to push to that
limit a match you probably do doing
something wrong you know like if you
like you see in matches where guys
Sprint the last like minute they're
trying to win the match and last minute
and it's like you definitely had some
mistakes leading up to that if you have
to you know gonna go boss the wall
okay but has there been other times in
competition especially like early on
because you're like you wrestled pretty
hard and wrestling is pretty exhausting
like not wrestling but you know
wrestling style kind of thing going
against the best people in the world
yeah I mean I definitely again I think I
think in practice it's important to uh
do that hard work that where competition
is is much easier you know I think if
you if you Redline in practice and you
really push the like death's door uh
then once you're in competition and
you're working with you know you're
being fresh in a compliments it's much
better have you ever been to that thing
where Dan Gable talks about always
wanting to be to a place where you can't
get off the mat
like you work so hard in the training
room you can't get off the mat I think
he says he's failed at that in his
career he was always able to at least
crawl off the mat
yeah I definitely never like actually
died on the map I felt like I felt like
I was gonna die you know sure sure uh
what about you do quit all the time I
get a lot cramp I'm like you know what
you got me mad let's do this against
tomorrow
dude if I'm asking Craig for a role he's
in the bathroom somewhere haha
I do you do you see the value of pushing
yourself like to that place where you're
knocking on death stories yeah but
within safety you know because obviously
the most uh serious injuries occur when
you're tired over training and stuff
like that so I think like taking a page
out of what those MMA fighters do
especially Volks with his training like
he's not necessarily pushing crazy in
each round but he's doing extra
conditioning assault bike stuff crazy
workouts outside
and he does do some crazy training
workouts but all safe very safe though
when he's redlining like that in the
training room it's a very controlled
safe setting I think to do that in Jiu
Jitsu against some of these lunatics out
there that are trying to kill you
especially when you have a name can be
dangerous so your approach is just as
don't warm up and don't try too hard
no sir for safety no for safety yeah
yeah longevity you know and talk shit to
about Russians I got it I got it I hear
you oh you mentioned uh cage work what
what what's interesting to you that
you've learned overall this time about
cage work what's like what's interesting
about the Dynamics of that are you
talking about both like the control
in the dominant position but also
getting up from the bottom while you're
against the cage all of that the added
dimension of that cage that wool being
there changes a lot of stuff right so
obviously in some ways it's a much lower
Impact Wrestling style because he can't
be throwed on you can shoot the cage is
going to block their feet you're going
to be able to chase down their hips it's
just a completely different fight and
again because of Islam's Judo skills
that upper body controls you see he's
able to use against the cash like the
inside trips uh sort of the YouTube
artist style all right Goshi throws so
obviously those skills do translate but
yeah I think the cage is a great
equalizer for a lot of things like
athleticism and stuff it takes away a
huge speed Advantage aspect of the fire
so he's really good at staying up what
is is there I assume he learned all that
from you and your instructional just
stand up I mean we were so confident I
was like you know what why don't we put
this thing out a month before the fun
yeah maybe the illegal download hasn't
made its way to Russia yet yeah but it
was there for him can you can you
explain to me what's in the
instructional just stand up like what
what are what are the ideas what do you
I mean the old school way to stand up
people to talk about the technical get
up you know the old Gracie put the hand
but I mean that's that doesn't work it
hasn't worked for 20 years you know if
you look at everyone that gets up in MMA
they're using Turtle to get up they're
using wrestling together you know what I
mean yeah which is uh counter to what
pure Jiu Jitsu says they say don't
expose the back don't ever expose your
back I think Jiu Jitsu is a terrible way
to get back to the feet because if you
were to retain guard and go half got a
close guard super hard positions to get
up you're basically putting yourself in
a leg tuck for wrestling so I think you
need to borrow from wrestling to learn
how to get up in an MMA fighter so
basically how to safely expose your own
back while I'm not allowing them to get
Hooks and use that to get back up or at
least not allow them to get two hooks
and that applies for MMA especially for
MMA especially because obviously uh
striking is a factor but if they are
striking they don't have locked hands
around your body means you are able to
move you are able to make an attempt to
get back up they have to choose between
control submission or strikes uh post
from Reddit why does Craig Jones push so
hard for a bottom is bad jiu jitsu what
is so bad about playing bottom guards
such as half guard or Delhi those are
the two options no one likes the bottom
why would I want to get up
it's the question for all of you is is
the bottom a bad place to be I mean the
bottom is bad if you don't want that gun
to help you that's the way I look at it
you know that's that's that sounds like
something a cowboy would say but I don't
know if there's much meaning I think the
point of Jiu Jitsu is both are dangerous
being on bottom and on top I think the
longer the match is probably the
favorites the top guy more just because
every movement the bottom guy makes is
probably carrying your your weight
carrying that gravity on top of you so I
think it's a bit more efficient uh
passing from the top as opposed to
sweeping from bottom Bottom's reactive
top is active the top player decides how
to engage how to approach the god that
can use angles they can use footwork
that can throw people uh throw the legs
by so it's an active position Bottom's
reactive reactive you're gonna get
fatigued yeah I think I think it's very
difficult to gas somebody out while
playing guard but I think it's very easy
to gas somebody out uh when attempting
to pass it well you guys are talking
about guessing people out but is there
are more dangers from the bottom like in
terms of submissions and all that kind
of stuff or no I'm back and forth
because I'm a top I'm a top player but I
understand the value of being on bottom
like when I do play guard the bottom I
feel like this the submissions come much
easier uh and when I'm on top they come
also pretty easy but uh maybe I just
take a different route
it's up on the streets bought them in
the shades
what was the hardest part of the
training for the the training camp for
volcanowski like you're just
experiencing world-class MMA fighters
training and given your approach of uh
to jiu jitsu of not trying to harden no
matter what yeah I mean from my
perspective there's a lot of pressure
for that you know like that's a that's
that's a lot of pressure for me to go in
and think that I could possibly figure
out a way to help this guy address this
guy that's basically never been beaten I
think he got knocked out once but
basically not really even been put in
bad positions you know what I mean
that's a lot of pressure on me
especially because volcano see such a
great guy yeah jiu jitsu's differ you
know like you coach a guy who loses he
has time to tap but he never make it
gets severely hurt yeah there's a lot
more weight and what you need to do as a
coach you have a greater sense of
responsibility to the health and
well-being you know like obviously I
know Fox kids I know his wife you know
what I mean they're putting faith in you
to not just win the fight but keep this
man safe you know so from my perspective
a hell of a lot more Russia uh coaching
him as an MMA fighter it's almost like
the psychological aspect of like um
of doing the best you can for him
exactly yep yep what was uh what was the
hardest about the actual training was it
the technical aspect of trying to figure
out the puzzle of Islam or was it like
being a good training partner in the in
the in the like in figuring out how the
grappling would work basically playing
your best impression of microchip were
you trying to actually impersonate him
like not not just uh visually but like
in stock yeah definitely definitely
visually you're not as good looking but
go ahead a little taller but uh no in
terms of the training yeah I mean
Islam's known as incredibly strong glass
obviously I'm heavier than Islam so
theoretically I should be able to
replicate that strength difference and
then in terms of grappling targeting
those submissions that Islam does like
focusing on those in the training room
focusing on the way he holds half God
and really fuck in the grappling sense
trying to replicate him on the ground
and then yeah I wrestled with him on the
wall a ton trying to replicate obviously
it's the best one ability a lot of the
stuff he does on the wall body lock
heavy inside trip
uchimatas and just constantly uh put in
the work on Volks you know what I mean
like constantly chaining attacks against
him
really replicate as he's trying to get
up and escape and all that kind of stuff
so this submissions like both Judo and
submissions just attacking attack
exactly there's only so much you can do
really because obviously he's been I
think he's been fighting a long time so
it's like you're trying to polish what
he already is good at you can't just
completely create an entirely new game
for him in the space of six weeks so
you're trying to take what he's already
effective at add to it and luckily a lot
of the stuff he's already very good at
was easy to add to for the for the fight
question from Reddit I'm very curious
why other MMA fighters don't employ high
profile Grapplers from B team and New
Wave to improve their grappling that's
from the subreddit uh by now it's clear
that they are levels above almost
everyone in MMA simply because Fighters
there don't specialize in grappling but
it doesn't seem like Fighters even
Champions get training Partners from the
most successful teams why is that the
case from your experience
why uh doesn't could be call you
you might now
um
put in a good word for me
oh oh I will yeah
that's right he takes a joke pretty well
yeah
um no no you'll be walking with open
arms
I think your average statistic coach MMA
fighters have bad experience with
jiu-jitsu guys Jiu-Jitsu doesn't have a
massive place to MMA obviously rounds
stand-ups it's hard hard to submit
people your average Brazilian Jiu Jitsu
Black Belt doesn't know anything about
holding a guy down doesn't know anything
about how to stand up sure so I think if
you over overly utilize that juicy guy
that hasn't had experience in more
modern nogi or training MMA fighters
previously it's going to be a complete
waste of time to them I think they're
smart enough to realize that do you have
uh and do you guys do you have interest
in MMA at all just not even like
well certainly just competing yourself
but like just understanding the puzzle
of MMA yeah I mean I've been a fan of
mixed martial arts you know for a very
long time before I I trained jits uh
personally I personally I'd much rather
coach than fight but I mean I'd fight
somebody for you know a good check and I
get to pick the opponent and have a
proper Kev
okay
I can think of a good opinion yeah which
dude who's that
uh all right
who do you think is the greatest MMA
fighter of all time
Craig let's start with you just as a fan
of the sport as somebody's been deep in
it I mean from my perspective after that
performance I'm gonna say volcanovski
because he was able to decisively
outstrike Max Holloway one of the
greatest Strikers in the sport and he
was able to hang with the wrestling of
Islam macachev and in terms of Ortega
was able to survive Ortega who has some
of the most dangerous emissions in Jiu
Jitsu so I think in my opinion
technically he's the best
so even though even though he
technically lost he's still he still has
a crown I I believe in himself given the
size difference given he's moving up in
white yeah I think all those factors
really the underdog everything the
pressure
did you think he would be able to hang
in any of the wrestling exchanges with
Islam No no no I was really surprised
that's why my eyes like
it's kind of funny like winning at the
end of the day I feel like judges
influence that although I did think
Australian judges would Rob the other
way but yeah I was assuming they kind of
somebody paid somebody and not enough
maybe but uh but in general I just
thought he won sort of in the eyes of
what martial arts stands for like
sort of going to the fire and survive
and and Thrive and finish the last round
strong which is kind of was like
spiritually is what a victory is so I
wish we kept going like one more round
yeah exactly that kind of thing
um well what about you what do you think
like who are the fighters you admire
like who do you think is the greatest of
all time I think the fighter I paid most
attention to was Jon Jones
um you know he has a great ability just
to mix the the high level striking high
level grappling
um although his you know Jiu Jitsu by
itself isn't you know it probably isn't
like you know super high level but his
ability to mix everything together I
would say he's he's the best
and he's a fellow you know heavier guy
heavyweight now so it's it's nice to see
you know how those guys move at that
weight
and it fellow natural athlete
see what I did there all right uh what
about what about you Nikki yeah if I had
to pick a goat I would probably have to
say khabib just because he was he was
undefeated and uh he had a very you know
High finishing rate you know very few of
his fights actually went to a decision
um so he just overall he dominated
almost every single opponent he won
against the Dominus uh I mean we've been
joking about it but uh Craig what do you
think makes the dagistani fighter so
good like from this small region of the
world so much dominance has come I mean
obviously the the amount of Freestyle
Wrestling champions from that region
before he puts their wrestling above and
beyond the best
um in all of MMA and obviously a lot of
even in the Olympics a lot of Champions
out of there right so I think that skill
set combines with them adding effective
pin controls on the ground and Jiu Jitsu
submissions but I mean again I think
it's that hard training those guys like
khabib would maintain that pressure
throughout the entire fire and break
guys down their ability to fatigue guys
to a breaking point I think it's
something they do best I wonder what
what that is is that technique what is
that what is it about their upbringing
because is that just that part of the
world or will the city of Brothers what
for the other Freestyle Wrestling side
to all the Mixed Martial Arts people
like it must be part of the
the culture also they must be doing
something
I don't think I've never I haven't seen
a convincing explanation of why yet
of what's specific about their training
what's specific about their culture that
creates that
okay what do you think about like the
the flip side do you admire somebody
like uh Conor McGregor who
it knows how to create a spectacle you
Craig who likes spectacles spectacles
yeah I mean I really admire early Conor
McGregor because I found him absolutely
hilarious you know like I felt like that
was Peak banter I feel like he just took
the American World by storm Aussies
British Irish kiwis I believe we have a
way better level of banter and attacking
each other and it's almost too easy to
pick on Americans to take themselves
very seriously I mean I could believe in
other parts of the world too the Far
East of Europe you know but that's
that's a tricky thing with Connor I
think he was I feel like you could have
gotten in the same kind of trouble
because the Russians really took
everything very seriously they weren't
joking around yeah that's that's the
problem it's like it's it's it's a bit
of a I mean some things he definitely
takes too far you know but I felt like
early on he had the right balance where
he wouldn't really cross the line but he
would do he would do enough he just took
it to another level obviously later in
his career
but I think early on a bit of innocent
better he gets a lot of eyes on the
sport though it's probably by far the
most popular combat athlete of all time
because of that yeah I feel like you
have to cross the line I don't think
enough people appreciate like the values
he's brought by crossing the line he's
making a sacrifice crossing the line
that's going to affect him for the rest
of his life you know
I see I don't think so I think you can
always walk back because I think unlike
people might disagree with this
I well yeah I I thought he always
radiated a respect
for the opponent like afterwards and
underneath it it felt like the same way
you do it when I hear you shit talking I
don't see a person who really means it
I see a person who's having fun with it
I always saw Conor McGregor the same way
I don't know and but people took it like
extremely seriously but I I saw the
respect like the common respect the
martial artists have for each other that
felt like it was always there if you
don't like that individual you're gonna
perceive yeah what they say more uh
negatively than if you obviously were so
like I feel like if you like someone
you're gonna never think they really
cross the line that's true so you're
saying I like you that's what I
perceived your bullshit in a positive
life is there are there people that hate
you
it's a good place to be keep your
enemies close all right uh what do you
think is the most important muscle for
Digestive biceps no uh I think a strong
I think a strong back I think back one
course second
and then biceps okay biceps cool do you
legitimately think like weightlifting
helps Jujitsu it's kind of the
discussion on the steroids is like
the muscle mass and strength and power
and explosiveness all that I think
sometimes when we're at that upper
echelon of competition there's there's
only there's like little minute battles
that you have to win and if you're if
you're relatively close in technique
then a lot of times a stronger opponent
pulls it out
but it could be also just a limitation
right you hold position too long uh what
about for hobbyists do you recommend
weightlifting like when you see people
in the gym I always recommend
weightlifting I I almost see muscle as
the body's armor right the more armor
you have the more damage you can kind of
take and you know maybe recovery is a
little bit better
um and I've always seen weightlifting as
a means to uh stick to my routine like
if there's no point in lifting if you're
not eating right and you're not sleeping
right so if you kind of put it all
together then it's it's beneficial
what about you guys you go do you go to
the gym I go to the gym yeah
leave it on the gym it's an elliptical
and that butt machine or uh yeah I focus
on the glutes heavily all right
uh what about like what about injury
prevention so on um how do you train to
minimize the risk of injury you guys
have all been pretty beat up you've
gotten a major injury with the ACL yeah
uh so how do you train to minimize
injury probably another I gotta ask yeah
I definitely can you talk through your
injury like what happened yeah so uh
about one week prior to uh this last
80cc I was I was wrestling with uh this
guy named Kenta who's also competing and
uh I went to go lift him from like a
rear body lock and he hooked the outside
of my leg and we just felt something pop
you know he felt a shift with his with
his leg and uh
when it first happened it hurt for like
the first 30 seconds and then I honestly
debated I was like maybe it was just you
know some freak thing I was like I
literally thought about continuing the
session uh then the next day I woke up
and it was like super sore I was you
know limping around couldn't couldn't do
a full squat
um so it pretty much killed all of my
training for the entire week leading up
to the event so I couldn't train or
anything uh messed up the cut obviously
there's there's added nerves with that
too you know when you're not in the gym
every day leading up to the competition
uh I went out there I wasn't really able
to pull guard because I couldn't get you
know full heal the butt connection which
is inevitable with playing guard and I
was very uh hesitant to shoot as well so
I came out with the idea of just trying
to use hand fighting to to Tire uh my
first opponent out and then mainly look
to get to underhooks or over Hooks and
do mostly upper body wrestling in the
beginning of the match I you know
successfully got to an underhook I got
to rear body lock he tried to roll and I
ended up in top position and side
control but it was during the no points
period and then as the match went on uh
I gassed out and eventually he ended up
taking me down and then scoring with uh
with two hooks on the back so what's the
injury yeah so I got an MRI actually
after the event I didn't if you waited
wait wait you waited until after the
event yeah I waited until after I was
like knowledge or ignorance is bliss
yeah exactly I was like I honestly I
don't even want to know what's wrong I
was like I just go out there compete um
you know I knew it was like the the
biggest event
um to date and uh I really wanted to do
it think about not doing it uh it
definitely was a thought in my head
especially that that uh the day after
you know it's always the worst day
whenever you have like a serious
injuries the day after and I was like
man I really can't do a full Squad I was
like I don't even know how I'm gonna be
able to do this uh it got a bit better
over as the uh the week went on
um but I was like man I I have to go out
there and compete I was like I'm it'll
always be in the back of my mind like
what if if I ended up pulling out what
did you think about this hole I thought
it was just being a pussy yeah
just slap him around just yell at him I
didn't think we pressured you we just
saw you make your own decision right
we're just like it's a tricky thing to
do like with a heavily like like a
serious injury like this we didn't know
that was the thing we didn't know
honestly initially I thought it was I
tore my lateral meniscus
um but that ended up not being the case
it ended up being a full ACL tear I was
actually super surprised when I got the
MRI results
um so yeah we didn't know how bad it
actually was
what do you think about that situation I
think uh Nikki's a tough kid and uh I
mean when you're so close to that
competition you know there's not many
you don't get many opportunities like
that to compete in front of you know 15
000 people it's like you know props to
you for pushing through it and getting
it and man he had a close match for one
of the best Grapplers in his weight
classes like you know a few adjustments
here and there especially uh you know if
he was able to train previously leading
up to that match I think he pulls it up
so some of the things he mentioned is
nerves so there's extra nerves just
because you're underprepared yeah I mean
you know feeling underprepared you want
to go into a competition with you know
the confidence I did everything that I
could leading up to this event I trained
as much as I could and then when an
injury prevents that you start to doubt
yourself more how do you guys think
about injury how do you train you know
training with the best in the world
training to be the best in the world and
avoiding injury
as you've gotten you tour your bicep
yeah yeah I tore bicep yeah
dude honestly I I was I was a body I was
bodybuilding you know for like seven
years and no lie I did I trained biceps
like most days like almost that almost
every day in those seven years pretty
much I injured my I injured myself
that's so Jersey man anything else or
just the bosses just I mean no
yeah injured the bicep
um pretty much I the day before a
wrestling practice I had like a a killer
arm day and by arm day I just mean
training biceps
very rigorously getting a sick pump and
uh I go to wrestling practice the next
day you know pretty late I should have
been there I didn't get a proper warm-up
in and the first thing I do is I shake
hands and I go to shoot a single leg and
boom I just blew my arm out the first
movement I did so just not being warmed
up properly in addition to you know
having a very vigorous arm day few hours
prior
hear the you hear that about warm up so
like what what are some lessons about
avoiding injury and uh training I would
say number one is is warming up properly
make sure making sure your your body is
hot before you do hot stuff okay uh and
what does warm-up look like for you I
said Jiu Jitsu or non-juices stuff yeah
just for a warm-up in general I'll do
I'll do something like a uh if I'm
talking competition something like a uh
a jog walk back and forth a few times
than a Sprint jog a few times to get
that heart rate you know up and down
yeah and then uh I'll grab a partner I
actually just filmed a DVD uh or
instructional specifically on the
pre-match ritual
um in addition to that I'll I'll you
know grab a partner I'll drill so some
movements uh typically I'll drill some
bad things like I'll start from bottom
bottom mount bottom side control work
out from there and in pretty much like
20 minutes in I'm I'm hot and I'm ready
to go for you know rounds
well what about you Craig so what uh
what's what's the way to avoid injury
what's the worst injury you've had
what's the worst injury I don't even
know I'm pretty good pretty healthy yeah
whenever you whenever you quit and
practice something that's a mentally
has your heart ever been broken many
times many times but um there's a thing
I notice people to spend the most time
warming up
often the most injured
it's a strong correlation
all right I can't you can't argue with
science I remember you're right training
with all of a test Oliver ties would
have a 60 Minute warm-up yeah surprise
surprise always injured yeah very common
yeah I find that very common the
training room now I think people it's
how they train like if you like me first
sign of discomfort oh back pedal you
know push through that stuff go too hard
go when you're too tired you know what I
mean get too emotional in the role I
feel like those are the times that I've
been hurt where I just like oh I can't
let this guy get me when I have that
attitude and try I believe it's how you
train and sort of obviously so what does
this come from you like uh positionally
too like because you're training against
some Killers I mean you're training
you're training you're training with him
and going probably pretty hard so Craig
gets a little tired he's like yeah I'm
good for today once a month for Nikki
right that's it and then you quit like
30 seconds in just so I mean yeah you
know you got to be safe you know
I like it what about you what have you
learned from uh
oh so you haven't been like I didn't get
surgery I didn't do essentially and your
rehab I just have no ACL in my left leg
so what's it like having no energy guys
you've got two options surgery rehab
only Nikki goes I'll do nothing yeah
definitely should pick up on the rehab
um what's it what's rehab for that look
like like twice a day of doing some
weird
like bands or something it's good he's
learned from he's he's learned some
valuable lessons from about taking care
of his body yeah yeah what's it like
just training with no ACL uh so at the
beginning it was definitely a little
iffy you know I would have an occasional
Buckle like I'd just be wrestling with
somebody and go to step back and it
buckled backwards a bit
um but honestly now like I haven't had a
single Buckle instance in a while uh it
feels a hundred percent normal when I
train uh it feels better than my other
knee to be honest like I had I had my
Meniscus taken out in my right leg and
that one gets sore more often than the
the no ACL leg okay all right so putting
that aside Mr
is there wisdom you've learned from that
experience yeah uh definitely you should
be doing rehab and and prehab you know I
think that you know especially if you're
a hobbyist or or a professional uh
athlete you should be lifting um you
know whether you're rehabbing an injury
or just for an injury prevention so I'm
actually closer to uh correction I've
trained my whole life like pretty hard
obviously just a hobbyist but like twice
a day did Judo wrestling all that never
broke anything never injured kind of
like similar philosophy except like last
year I guess a year and a half ago I got
a tiny like growing pool injury and it
still hasn't healed and I've been using
your approach of not giving a shit yeah
and like all right surely this is gonna
heal it'll be fine but it hasn't but of
course if I was like an actual athlete I
would like probably still train through
it just fuck it figure it out but when
you have other stuff going on you just
kind of wait it out yeah but no I think
probably we have especially as you get
older you have to do that kind of stuff
I think it's important for people to you
know determine whether they're what
they're going through is an injury or
they're just hurt a little bit because
injury you know for sure take time rehab
it and get better but a lot of people
like they'll stubble toe or something
like uh you're out for a few weeks you
know so well that's that's the problem
with the injury I have it feels like a
stubbed toe so I was like yeah I'll just
wait a couple days it'll be fine and
then a couple days later it's not fine
and you wait and then I never got an MRI
I never got any of that it's like I'm
sure I'll be fine yeah so it's hard to
know sometimes like
what is hard to know I feel like a lot
of people
will just not check it out be fine well
because there's several failure cases
there is a failure case of where
everything is a stub tote you're like
fuck it
like like you're bleeding everywhere
yeah that's fine whatever uh so you have
to be careful a lot a lot of a lot of
people can fall into that too I think
I'm in that category go to the doctor
why do you go to the doctor yeah
your best approach is typically wait
until something else gets hurt so that
you'll forget about the grain that's
yeah exactly that's I was hoping I was
hoping to get hurt so uh waiting for the
for the broken heart maybe okay that was
very helpful oh you mentioned you're
doing uh uh a whole thing on the
pre-match ritual can you kind of preview
like what kind of what's involved in
your pre-match ritual
it's a pretty big in the wrestling
culture and the fighting culture like
kind of what what to do before your
competition but uh I think a few of our
a few people are just kind of missing
out exactly you know what to do so I
break it down for them I break it down
to people like uh four weeks in advance
um how how your you should prep you know
your trading and your nutrition and your
sleep for competition
um in addition to that I break it down
even like uh to a smaller scale for like
what's how how early you should get to
the event
um when you're when you should be
visualizing you know your competition uh
what to do like you know 30 minutes
before 20 minutes 10 minutes five
minutes and the kind of mentality you
should have throughout those uh those
times before you actually step onto the
mat when are you visualizing like how
much are you visualizing the actual when
you say competition you're talking about
the the tournament or the actual people
you might be competing against a little
bit of both I'll spend time uh that's
just visualizing the crowd like if it's
going to be you know an arena with 15
000 people I'll spend time in practice
and we're not like putting myself inside
that Arena and visualizing you know
stepping on the mat and hearing the
hearing the crowd scream and whatnot
that way you know when competition comes
time comes it's kind of the the same
deal I'm accustomed to it in addition
when I get to the arena I'll step on the
mat I'll kind of look at everything I'll
expose my senses to to what it's going
to be and then I'll kind of shut
everything off like a lot some people
you know scroll through their phone and
can treat it like normal have this
normal conversations for me I like to
limit my sensory input my sensory intake
before I go out and compete I just feel
like sometimes I feel like sometimes we
only have so many decisions you can make
in a day and I want all of my best
decisions to be made when it matters
when it counts
oh what about you what's do you uh limit
your sensory input on Game Day honestly
no routine nothing eh
I don't yeah I didn't do anything this
guy's a double silver
you should get it you should buy his
instructional it'll help you I'll get
another silver
now honestly nothing hey I just try to
relax to relax before training have a
good visualizations or no no
visualization so the opposite of
visualization you just avoid it yeah
yeah I don't even think about it I'm
just like yeah we'll have a good time
you know try to appreciate it because I
can do it
by the way when you visualize are you
visualizing tough positions or you
visualize winning mostly uh definitely
visualize winning I'll visualize how I
can get how I'm going to get to my uh
most dominant positions because you know
in comp I want to do what I'm best at
I'm also see uh I see my opponent in his
best positions and how I'm gonna Escape
those if necessary but most of the time
I'm just visualizing exactly what I'm
going to do in that match and I go out
there and do it okay so what when when
your teammate Craig is you know another
like world-class athlete has a
fundamentally different philosophy than
you do you visualize being frustrated at
him no no not frustrated but I'll
definitely come into practice with like
solutions to problems that Craig gives
me you know like if Craig's uh you know
catching me or something or give me
issues like you know I'll go home I'll
I'll watch A Match that he lost for
motivation and I'll come back and I'll
I'll put it on
just DM him like a highlight reel of him
losing yep
uh what about you like does it does it
affect you that you're a bit of an
outlier usually before I compete right
before I go out there I go
why am I doing this yeah do I still need
to do this yeah and I think like
hopefully don't embarrass myself affects
my instructional sales that's the last
thought but I don't even put too much
thought into the whole competing thing
I'm just like you know what train hard
hopefully have a good time out what
about the motivation aspect like that
that voice that says like why am I doing
this that voice can break a lot of
people like in a weight cut it can break
a lot of people like why am I doing this
stupid silly sport like you said a bunch
of dudes just rolling around like what's
the point I'll call someone with a nine
to five job and I'll be like yeah that's
why I'm doing this okay you know avoid
that sure sell those DVDs man yeah I
don't get too deep on competing yeah
we're so polar opposite it's like almost
uncomfortable to be around you obviously
one of us is a clean athlete
um you should do a DVD on that
uh what what about you in terms of uh
preparing for competition Nikki
um the the day before the day of are
there rituals that you follow uh
honestly like the the few days leading
up to it uh I it's different for me
every time
um like sometimes I'll warm up before
they I compete sometimes I won't
sometimes I'll fast sometimes I'll eat
so I literally it's just completely
random I don't follow any specific thing
um but in the training room leading up
to the competition I'll definitely you
know like Nikki Rod visualize that I'm
walking out onto the competition mats
you know I'll pick somebody that's you
know similar body type to the person
that I'm competing against and then you
know we'll start out uh with some
distance between us we'll come out smack
hands and you know act like everything's
a real competition I'll even sometimes
have you know Corners that will yell out
times and things like that just to
replicate it as much as possible that's
funny because I've talked to a lot of
Olympic gold medalists they used to do a
podcast with like athletes and they all
sound like Nikki
I don't know sometimes I'll do this
sometimes so anyway but that's also just
a culture I think uh maybe the chaos of
not taking things too serious is
actually really really helpful sometimes
the pressure of taking everything way
too seriously can break you I mean it's
just I think it's the biggest sport
really you know I think if I compete
every day in practice it just makes
competition much easier so I just put
the pressure on there on the competition
area on the sorry on the training on the
uh competing in the training I don't
know Olympic sports aren't that big
either financially and people take it
extremely extremely seriously like you
don't really get get that much money
from Judo I mean I just don't take Jiu
Jitsu that seriously because like I was
just
partying having a good time until 21 and
then I was like oh fuck do I get a job
or do I pursue professional sports and I
feel like if I can made a career in Jiu
Jitsu with that with a decision at that
point
and now you just stumbled your way
somehow into like being at the top of
the world yeah that's what I feel like I
just walked into it I feel like I
couldn't just do that in wrestling
Boxing I couldn't do that in other
sports
what was the toughest match you've ever
had that pushed you mentally physically
technically
this doesn't have to be the best person
you face but it was there like a moment
in your career that was like really
uh defining for you
I mean I would say like the toughest
mentally was just this this last 80cc
you know I just had a big injury leading
into it that kind of screwed the whole
camp and and weight cutting everything
up uh so yeah I would say I would say
the last 80cc are you probably a
performance there like you stepped on
the mat that you uh you pushed through
all of it uh like I said I'm a very
competitive person and I hate losing so
definitely not yeah you got to collapse
lawn
dude
he was he was so physically exhausted
afterwards couldn't breathe we had to
get medical intervention he thought he
had a collapse on so he goes with the
most the tired that I've ever been in my
life in that match I actually popped the
blood vessel in my eye I was trying so
hard he comes out he walks off the 80cc
mat backstage and I'm like I'm kind of
getting warmed up for my match and Nikki
run comes he walks over huffing a puffy
his mom's right next to me looks at her
he's like I think I need help I think I
was a lung collapse
my mom's the one that called for medical
I'll go I was just laying on the warm-up
Matt fucking dying
well we'll have your find
yeah
laid it all in the line uh what about
you Craig defining or toughest matches I
mean they're all pretty tough you know I
don't know I can't really pinpoint one I
mean probably the most annoying one was
obviously the one where I had Gordon and
Amber I was like tap bro and he wouldn't
have so I let him out
mentally I was like I shouldn't have
done that do you ever have a thing in
your brain where it says should I shit
talk now or not and you ever you say no
I'm going to be respectful I'm just
gonna be serious yeah about some of
these things I don't know it's just
silly it's just yeah all of it the whole
thing uh what about you Nicorette
um dude honestly most of my toughest
matches are are in the pr the training
room right because I started with these
guys I started training under them like
you know start training at DDS when I
didn't have any knowledge like of like I
knew wrestling I knew like a knee cut in
Jiu Jitsu but like I started training
with them when I knew almost no jiu
jitsu and then I had to like you know
really work my way up so definitely in
the training room like being like having
one of these guys on my back or like
there's a stretch of like a few weeks or
months when kovid first hit and it was
just like four of the best Grapplers in
the world and we just did Drilling in
live rounds with these four guys and it
was just it was it was hard it was very
hard you know every every round was
doing six rounds seven days a week with
the best Grapplers in the world and it's
like you get no break and you're forced
to learn on the go so I think in that
for me in the training room that was
definitely my my toughest matches and
that's where I built you know those
mental calluses uh there was a period
where I I drew with Nikki Rod probably
what nine months 12 months and typically
speaking like I said no warm-ups the
first round we should take it pretty
easy first you only started Mount the
whole room the rest of the training room
they take Mount very lightly me and
Nikki Rudd would be fighting to the
death every day I felt like we did an
extra round every day it was very
grueling I'm very I'm very mean when I'm
in the midst of drilling or a lot or
live like we would do we would drill
wrestling you know quite a bit like
stand up and in the drilling like I just
wouldn't like Craig take me down like
we're not going live we're just drilling
but I just wouldn't let him put me on
the floor so things like that you know
I knew it escalate yeah uh so you met
your mom like uh so you do positional
training so is that would that be the
hardest versus like live training uh
open like starting from guard I would
say Mount and turtle definitely
definitely made me very tough because
you spent all this effort getting off of
bottom out and then you gotta get on top
of a guy in the at the time I'm not that
good at holding guys down so Escape
quick and I'm like fuck I just tried to
hold him down gotta go back down same
thing with a turtle it's like you you
start buying Turtle you're trying to
explode get out get away and then you
know you switch and this guy get up gets
up pretty quick and you're like damn I
gotta go right back down it was that
constant Circle man it's it's very tough
but definitely uh you know build some
character on the map what do you think
is the value of positional training in
general in Jiu Jitsu actually this one
just interacting with you guys it's not
commonly done it's just like regular
Jiu-Jitsu gyms would you see because
probably it's not commonly done because
it's so most of the experience is just
frustrating
like if you're evenly matched you're
basically frustrated the whole time
if you're if you're doing it right these
are psychological battle that happens in
like the mountain Turtle Islands it's
like you know because you maybe you get
close to sub in a guy and or maybe you
do SUB them uh you know when you're
starting turtle and you're on their back
you finish them and then you get this
High Point and then immediately you
gotta go back down to defensive posture
yeah it's very like it's emotionally
like up and down so it's hard to deal
with super important if you're one of
the better people in the gym because it
just puts you in positions you don't
find yourself in in regular training so
I think like a lot of uh if you're a big
fish in a small pond you don't do
positional spying you're probably going
to get exposed in competition you might
even look silly in those positions so
you really have to force yourself to do
it despite the fact that you're giving
someone worse than you a position where
they might catch you so you have to sort
of put the ego aside
yeah that's one of the things when I was
training regularly of course training
with you guys it's like trivial but uh I
didn't work on putting myself in bad
positions when you get better and you
regret it because the the big negative
thing it has consequence it has on
competition is you don't take as many
risks because you're kind of afraid
for you back to get taken all that kind
of stuff that was me before I went to
DDS I remember I showed up there in that
old position I was like fuck this you
better earn this position you know yeah
exactly I didn't really have escapes
I was a learning curve for me for sure
uh do you see the value in positional
training or is it just the source of
tremendous frustration uh yeah I
definitely uh think it plays a big part
in you know your confidence when you
step out onto the the competition mats
you know being confident that even if
you get put in the worst possible
situations you know what to do and know
how to work out of them
so I had a long argument with uh with
Taja Gracie when he visited and he
thinks Mal is the most dominant position
even Noki
uh versus back would you is there a case
to be made for that or no dude I think I
think all of your opponent's utensils
their tools are in front of them so like
if you're on Mount they still have you
know there's a few ways to get out of
them out I think if you're on somebody's
back I'd personally much rather be on
somebody's back than flattened out I'd
rather have someone's back and then
flattened out boots in flattened out
yeah yeah boots and flat out so not not
even body triangle but just flatten just
completely flat almost like a position
in my way you see guys get finished
because they can't get out I think that
position is probably the hardest
position to escape can you see what
hydra's talking about with mounters he
just that good at Mount like he says
that you might mean the gay cross color
you know I don't know what did he mean
this is controlling wise he just
believes that you can complete that
there's
he actually thinks there's more ways to
get out from the back of the nurse from
the mount prior to getting up including
like physically prior to the Kipping
Escape
I'll probably agree with him but they're
keeping escapes so difficult to manage
it's the funny looking Escape we uh yeah
people have a lot of trouble it's like
super hard to learn how to do but then
once you learn how to do it the
effectiveness is just huge yeah it's a
weird one when that comes to be a thing
they're pretty recent I mean I saw DDS
guys using it first I think yeah who's
the first guy to discover something like
that this seems like a ridiculous thing
to discover yeah I want to fight this
wiggle
I thought it was a joke at first I was
you guys really doing this yeah
I remember somebody's showing me like a
technique where uh like if you just like
walk your hand on a mat or something
like that maybe on a triangle or
something yeah yeah
it's just like a funny Discovery like as
opposed to like trying to like shove it
in just like walk it I like doing that
to people but with things that aren't
true
you know what I mean I'll just tell them
this is a technique and watch him
try to work out if I'm being serious or
not yeah that's what you do when you
achieve Guru status they'll just listen
to you like you're Steven Seagal see
what they'll believe
speaking of which how do you balance you
have to travel all across the world how
do you balance that with running a
school with being a world-class
Jiu-Jitsu athlete
or maybe I mean the secret to travel for
me are two two drugs Xanax and modafinil
that's how we time adjust and we hit the
ground running but uh what does
modafinil do Xanax supposed to sleep
yeah I mean I have narcolepsis it's a
narcolepsy medication
uh how does that work with the stairways
look I mean they work well together you
know yeah nice focus and physical
recovery uh but in terms of traveling
and training and stuff it is I mean
we're lucky because we've got so many
high level guys so like we can we can
travel and they're still still in good
hands I mean it would be a problem if me
Nikki writing Nikki Ryan left and the
gym had Ethan that would be a problem
but we got to make sure it's not just in
there
um although everyone says they're happy
when you're gone so that's the moment I
heard happy when I'm gone but they do
miss me yeah for sure until I get back
all right uh what about what about you
just like balancing it do you try to
stay completely focused on competing
like for some of the big matches you
have coming up are you able to kind of
diversify well I like the uh yeah
diversify my training to where you know
if I'm don't have a competition
scheduled I'm more focused on skill
development and you know getting better
and broadening brought in my tool shed
um but you know if I'm like six weeks
before comp I really start uh amping up
the intensity that I bring into the mats
against bringing some of that visual
visualization towards practice and uh
maybe I train less volume
pre-competition but um higher output per
session yeah what is uh what's the
perfect week of training look like if
I'm not if I'm not in competition mode I
would say
Monday Wednesday Friday twice every
other day just once uh if I'm pre-comp
just Monday Monday to Sunday once a day
so that's on the mat you're doing the
full like positional training live
training what's up cows oh yeah I do a
lot of bicep curls yeah I left a few
times a week now yeah yeah cardio or no
card is all messed up cardio's all mad
stuff I do I do do some Crossfit
workouts like crossfits I'll do like
some imams or some amraps or CrossFit
you know terms that's for Instagram yeah
um but uh yeah CrossFit is uh is a good
way to
um kind of like push that that threshold
sometimes on the mat because I'm I'm so
good I can't always get that that like
full red line so I hop in across the gym
and I'll do some workouts that uh you
know bring me closer to death
uh what about you Craig what what is a
perfect week in training look like like
when you're back home training I try to
be the gym twice a day every day when
I'm back just because I travel a bit
more than uh these guys so I try to be
there 8 and 12 every day hang out in
between uh usually definitely usually
train both of those sessions depending
on how my body feels you're doing
positional doing everything like
technique positional live I should
probably do more positional because I'm
just trying to work on wrestling and
stuff and especially leading up to the
volcanovskis last while I was trying to
wrestle more and focus on those areas
even before I traveled over there just
some experimentation with some stuff but
yeah yeah how do you experiment with
stuff like how do you so there's like
regular positional stuff but when you
have ideas
like what like where do you do it in
during the training sessions to do it
outside of that you get you get together
with somebody usually every session I
show up with something I'm thinking of
usually selling from Top maybe selling
for bottom but and then I just try to
maybe pick the right people some people
obviously I'm just fighting to the death
with it's not a good time to experiment
and then others obviously you can you
can play around with ideas on
okay uh what about you uh what's a
perfect week look like uh maybe well you
said you're 100 now yeah
um so yeah honestly I have pretty much
the same schedule as Nikki Rod so Monday
Wednesday Friday I do twice a day uh
every other day once a day and then uh
normally uh noon practice is like our
biggest class that's where you know all
the pros go in so I tend to do more open
rounds there and then we have a 7 P.M
class as well which is more hobbyist uh
and that's where I'll do my positional
rounds and you know force myself to be
put in uh bad positions
so you have what you do eight a.m 12
like in terms of what B team has 8 am 12
and 7 p.m and the hobbyists are more 7
P.M yes okay
do you believe in overtraining
do you think you can over train I used
to not believe in it but I then I got
hurt I was like all right oh you
attribute that
to over training I think uh dude I'm
telling you I train I listed like a
bodybuilder for like seven years and by
lifting on me I was lifting seven days a
week and I train arms most days like
almost every day I would do like you
know four or five sets and get a get a
pretty good bicep pump
in addition to my lift I think I that
had to contribute somewhat towards
towards my uh
yeah fair enough well what about on on
the actual mat over training like
spending too much time on the mat well
psychological physical overtraining I
think you can definitely over train but
it's more of a uh I guess your body's
healthy you have to make sure your mind
is sharp like sometimes uh maybe taking
a a day away or even even diverting your
attention in a different aspect of
training can help you be a little bit
sharper overall sometimes it can be like
uh it can get a little like
um stagnant because you're doing the
same stuff over and over but I think if
you just keep like you know over
training then your overall Baseline just
gets higher and you that becomes you
become you know accustomed to that
uh what about you you don't seem like a
guy that over okay I've heard of it I've
never been close to it
now I think uh controlling uh how do you
train is definitely protects you from
injury you know what I mean like if
you're redlining yourself and then
you're fighting to the death of the gym
that's 100 when you're gonna get injured
gonna get sick so I try to make sure
I've I've had enough sleep I've had
obviously enough food post training and
that sort of helps me to train a bit
harder but still try to avoid red line
of myself too much I think established
also like what days are going to be your
peak days because you're eat throughout
the week if you're training seven days a
week you're going to have ups and downs
like for me personally when they when
Wednesday Thursday Friday usually my
best days and besides that I also have
other great days
Oh my days are great but Monday
Wednesday Friday are also great
you're like unable to admit that some
days are offering than others
I'm always on bro okay uh what advice
would you give to people who are not
always on uh hobbyists
how to get better like people are
already there I don't know purple Bells
Brown Bells black girls they're just
like doing like a couple times a week or
something like that like how to get
better
I think uh being consistent like find a
schedule that you can consistently train
maybe it's like you know three four
times a week or even a little bit less
just be consistent over the over the
years I think too too often people are
like oh I want to get really good really
fast and it's like definitely takes a
long time to get to where you want to be
what about the what you're doing during
like while being consistent what kind of
stuff you're working on
so honestly I think one big thing uh for
me which is something I actually started
doing once once B team was formed was uh
filming all of your rounds and then
watching it every day because you can
see what specific problems you're having
and then you can base your positional
rounds around those problems
that's really interesting it's kind of
depressing though yeah like sometimes I
have to you know I edited this podcast
for a long time I still do in part and I
hate the sound of my voice and like what
I look like it's tough but it does make
you better
yeah and I also hate the sound of
Craig's voice
this would be doubly difficult
um I'm glad glad the rest of you are
here I don't know
what do you watch competition footage of
yourself
um like to analyze like you see yeah my
confidence that's fucking good while
you're doing curls yeah I'm still
watching
is there advice you kyrgy would give for
hobbyists to get better I mean just uh
and not every round has to be a fight to
the death you know I feel like you're
going to get injured you're burnt out
that way you're not going to learn as
much it's tough I would say just as a
black bug who took just very seriously
for a very long time
basically when you become a hobbyist
your skill is basically slipping your
age and your skill
and so not taking stuff seriously is
actually its own psychological skill of
like you go
that it's tough it's tough like it's
tough in a way that uh is different when
you're like a blue belt or something
that you're if you work hard and you
train correctly you're going to get much
better
here you're kind of you're looking
downhill you're looking downhill and
you're like
yeah I guess I'm gonna enjoy the art of
it reframe the victory you know like if
it's a young upcoming guy and he comes
to me you're like well that's a moral
Victory you know yeah but then that that
has to happen you have to be able to not
do that to avoid the injury sometimes
like if you want so yeah it's a
different it's a different thing plus
plus with me just
because some people recognize me they
you have that probably you guys
definitely obviously have that I've
solved that problem how did you solve
that problem travel around you do a
salmon or anything like that yeah it's
believable that you could get submitted
once yeah but if they catch you give
them a few yeah
if people tell their friends they
submitted made a seminar yeah one time
believable yeah they got me four or five
times yeah you've robbed them of that
okay that's pretty funny but it's also
they have this energy
like they think you know they're coming
in hot and I I usually like to uh just
basically get submitted quickly twice
and just it changes everything it makes
it more fun I've noticed let them submit
you twice yeah just like very quickly
what you can like what are the options
hold off
but then it's like it's very hard to
like yeah if you're a very serious
competitor and so I need to take it
seriously then yes but
like then people go people what they try
to do this probably is what happens to
you guys they try to impress you by
going super hard I I have people every
day come to my gym try to take me out
yeah you gotta I just stay sharp come to
practice Let's Get It On
uh do you do you feel that energy I feel
like I need to talk to Craig here
like somebody's coming like really hard
like a brown belt will come in like and
they really want to impress you with
like their technical side of their big
fan they've been watching your DVDs like
what do you do with a guy like I'm
making complete joke out of the row you
know give him the pass mess with them do
stupid shit you know like rub them of
the realness of it because it's stupid
I'm Not Gonna Roll hard with strangers
you know I feel like you should roll
with a circle of people you trust
injuries
happen rolling hardly strangers because
that's the same way you get injured in
competition because you don't have that
uh relationship with them and I should
also mention that's probably not a good
way to impress somebody's bike just
going ape shit going 100 oh yeah that's
not at all I think the the beauty of
just is like the camaraderie of it like
as you get to know each other it's like
technical like different ideas you have
and all that
yeah okay do you think uh Gigi Jitsu is
dying in popularity Craig
yeah it's a long dead
I I think it's just I mean it just shows
like uh I mean I have heard some numbers
on the viewership for the world's finals
and they don't even compare to the
undercard of like who's number one
events so I think like when I was coming
up and competing in the gear all the
time you looked at those guys that won
black power championships and you were
like in awe of them it almost had that
80cc Champion feel but now that's not
the case
you know I just feel like that a younger
generation aren't looking at who's
winning black belt key worlds I
personally don't think and I don't think
they're like they want to be that guy
don't want to be like a Rotolo Gordon
you know those are the people they want
to emulate you so you think like the
ghee like Abby JF ghee tournaments will
just keep declining popularity I think
people will still do it I mean it's
easier I think as you're over 30 because
the key is a bit of a slower thing and
the Masters participation is bigger in
the ghee because obviously a nogi is now
heading in a wrestling Direction
wrestling in heel hooks you're over 30.
that's a terrifying Prospect you know
what's terrifying about the ghee less so
I think in a participation rate the
average death will still be good but I
just don't think people are as
interested as they used to be why is
wrestling and heel hooks terrifying well
he looks I can vaguely understand if you
don't understand heel hooks we work a
desk job and you've never wrestled in a
guy double likes you that's gonna
probably break you back you know I think
the older guys are scared and wrestling
it's hard to wrestle with 40. to learn
wrestling at 40. is he yeah so yeah I
mean I think it's even just hard in
general to do wrestling at 40 but it's
easy to pull God pull half guard in the
game 40. I think it's harder to do Judo
at 40 and people still do it at 40. Judo
hurts more yeah scarier than all of them
yeah I think does wrestling really hurt
in 40
it does interesting I feel I agree with
you saying that uh Judo looks like the
most dangerous like even their their
practice Partners they're just getting
slammed flat Bueno yeah I did I mean I
did Judo for a really long time there's
a lot of people that are 40 50 60 do
Judo and they get they're the ones that
are still alive though
that's true uh Survivor bias you do a
little bit of uh Judo right maybe I'm a
yellow belt you're a yellow ball and
Judo I should be your instructor
promotion orange I got a yellow belt in
the sixth grade I believe was the sixth
grade I did it for about I don't know
six months but you're also using uh Judo
in uh competition basically all right
aren't you doing like harai type throw
like you're doing uh yeah I don't know
that I just started doing it you just
started lifting your leg in various ways
until it works just figuring it out yeah
okay doing different kinds of trips I
looked at the sambo guys doing I was
like I can't be that huh yeah gave it a
crack well they they looked at your foot
locks and they said that can't be that
hard they said cut me that hard ban it
from the tournaments
all right
uh what do you think is the best uh take
down
in uh nogi Jiu Jitsu like what uh
like if people were trying to train for
competition and so on like where you see
the trends heading
I think those foot sweep is like
catching fire nowadays still up a lot of
foot sweeps uh foot sweeps and arm drags
I would say pretty pretty popular in our
sport arm drag she's just go I'm drafted
okay arm drag either to get him like get
to uh behind them or even just to cause
reactions make them pull away and we can
start reattacking are you talking about
it in a context of what's the best
takedown to school what's the safest
takedown to mitigate the risk of
guillotine submission
or most effective in general yeah most
effective combined combine yeah yeah I
mean I mean I think it's about scoring I
think any sort of uh body look you know
what I mean look in your hands around
the body being able to put them to the
floor that way I feel like that's most
effective safe this might even ever have
a risen out of a leg attack a leg entry
upgrade to the body what about uh like
foot Scoops like outside foot sweeps
what are we I would say yeah you know uh
foot sweeps from outside foot sweeps or
even like something like you're tossed
unemployment body and you're sweeping
the foot yeah those are all pretty safe
see why is that scary I don't understand
it's not scary at all I think it's the
lifts that are scary the lifts yeah
who's lifting people
we're talking about older guys doing no
Geeks some of those old bosses take it
very seriously they just start lifting
trt worlds GRT they're coming they're
coming to impressive lift all right just
just for the gram okay uh what about
submission what's your favorite
submission and what do you think is the
most effective submission
except the buggy joke I would have to
say the rear naked it's definitely the
one that's hit the most and the uh the
highest level of competition was that uh
that was pretty interesting to see you
escape all that and to put put it on
that's the cool thing about ebi to see
like the world-class athletes
I was surprised that it's possible to
escape with you on his back they're
gonna try some of the base cream oh yeah
B cream yeah that helps
what's in the brief what's the formula
or is that secret that is a proprietary
blend for sure okay
but that's what you use for greasing
that's what you guys said before
allegedly
um this is the other application outside
of grappling or I'm sure you can get
creative all right thanks
asking for a friend is that RNC for you
as well you're naked uh free naked choke
I mean overall favorite for like
solidifying a finish because like you
can put you can put some ice sleep right
even if they don't want to attack put
him to sleep but as far as like
something I've been working on now that
I'm I'm now starting to implement
competition Yoko senkaku side triangle
is like it's a beautiful thing you have
multiple options you have the triangle
to finish if that fails you have the
Kimora you could break the arm you could
also just transfer and take the back so
yokosukaku I'm a big fan of and I
continue to progress even better at it
have you ever broken anyone's arm oh
yeah I mean the first first few
competitions because I was like you know
pretty athletic Grappler or athletic
wrestler going against like local black
belts and brown belts like my one of my
first matches I broke somebody a Kimura
um pretty much every time I've got a
heel hook which is only twice I've
broken an opponent
um if I have a joint lock it's probably
gonna break like a lot of times it
breaks before they attack yeah it seems
like really friendly fella how hard is
it to break an arm or any break a joint
well I don't think it's that hard I
think um like if you're talking like
about an arm bar we have this position
to where like people are kind of holding
on holding on and then it slips and
their arm starts going and then it just
just breaks before they even you know
get a chance to tap
one time and it was actually
it was surprising I had to put a lot of
force into that I suppose some shoulders
and the ligaments in the knees and
ankles but to fully this kid sambo kid
fully Let It Go and he tapped it I think
the angle is like up here they're built
different
hopefully he can be reconstructed
all right
um what about a straight foot lock
you've ever
do you guys do straightfor locks at all
or no uh yeah I mean I'm learning them
now we had some kid come come into
practice one day and like
all of us straightfor look just this
little like polish kid did he feel like
everyone but he told the entire world
yeah I thought it was interesting when
you get like
yeah people that specialize can surprise
you that this could be effective stuff
uh do you think there's other stuff that
could be still discovered in Jiu Jitsu
like what what areas do you think
are ripe with uh techniques to discover
like wrestling is really interesting now
there's a lot of innovation happening in
wrestling I think there'll be more
Innovation when uh we get people that
are more adamant about standing up from
bottom position I think if we get more
of the community they're like all right
I want to get off the bottom I think
just stand up just stand up how did you
just it doesn't work we actually changed
the name how sambo doesn't work if you
just died
all right I'll change it to jiu jitsu
when I pirate it and send it for free to
the entirety of the Soviet block
do you think ego is useful for martial
arts or does it get in the way okay I
think you need to use it uh in both ways
um for sure I have an ego like if you're
if you're training competition
um but also it can prevent you from
learning and progressing if your ego is
too high like you really have to shut
the ego down when you're in the mode of
learning and trying to you know develop
skills because you're going to put
yourself in these bad positions you're
gonna have issues with a training
partners that aren't necessarily you
know up to up to your skill level but
because you're in these bad positions
you have to make these certain
sacrifices and for sure Eagle can be a
good or bad thing but if you're able to
shut the ego off and learn then that'll
have huge progression when it's time to
put the ego on into use during
competition when's the last time you put
uh shut the ego off it's been a long
time
what about you Craig do you uh do you I
mean he seemed to be super easy going is
there like is the ego just not part of
it oh for sure I just don't want anyone
to know they've damaged my ego you know
you have to suppress it deep down
there's a child underneath all of it
crying always for sure I think he goes
good for a bit of perseverance you know
like it'll help you stick it out against
a a tough battle with a training partner
for sure a bit of egos on the line plus
the banter back and forth we're trying
to like stir each other up a bit Yeah I
think that helps hone sharpen the ego a
bit
uh what about you did you try you seem
like a super humble guy is there like a
monster underneath it's a total ax
who's in the basement I think uh eco's a
big motivator
um you know I think it's very good to
have in the aspect that it like it'll
drive you to help to to want to be one
of the best in the world
um but like Nikki Rod said you need to
be able to turn it off in the training
room and you know force yourself into
bad positions where you may not be
winning
uh are there like uh you know Don Harris
mentioned Boris uh are there like
Grapplers like boy this is a question
from Reddit actually uh Boris like
characters anybody you've trained with
in the past who doesn't compete but is
just an absolute beast in training
like people you've met they're just like
well somebody that I think has a
probably the best like submission
grappling in in MMA I think like Gilbert
Burns is a is a his submission grappling
or something he's very very good I train
with him early early on in my graphing
career and I was really impressed by his
ability to to move hold down opponents
are trying to stand up and as a whole
you know he can he can get some missions
and put people away
have you when's the last time have you
trained them recently or no no it's been
a few years was just some impressive uh
ability to submit you're saying yeah
like I mean you know you would see I'd
see Gilbert go against a few like pretty
decent black belts in the room and
farewell and you know maybe he gets to
their back puts a choking and it's like
Gilbert's super high level uh grappling
or submission grappling yeah but he's
pretty widely recognized as a monster so
I don't know that's even really answer
the question
what was the question
all right well
is there people like you've done all
these seminars so they're just
especially in in the in the Eastern
block
he went to Kazakhstan is there Killers
out there that oh yeah there's tough
guys out there obviously I don't
remember the names nor could I pronounce
it if I did but definitely some tough
guys out there obviously carrying skill
sets over from from wrestling for sure
not sambo but wrestling wrestling but
yeah they're just people that surprise
you they just don't compete that are
really good are there have you met those
I feel like it's less so today because
there's so many so many more athletes in
the sport but definitely when I was
coming up back like in Australia and
stuff there were guys I'd train with
that wouldn't compete and that would be
like super tough rounds for me yeah and
there's so many more avenues for
competing in general so yeah
um the word by you have you met some
monsters yeah one guy I could think of
in particular is uh Jason Rao he's uh he
trains uh up in Long Island I think
right uh opened up his own gym out there
um thank God yeah Vanguard he used to
compete but he would never be able to
compete at the same level he would train
at so now he's just focused on mainly
you know opening up a gym and and
teaching his students uh but he was a
guy that was you know extremely good in
the training room you know world class I
still think to this day he's he's
legitimately one of the best in the
world uh but just doesn't compete
anymore
who wins in a fight a lion or a bear
polar bear just for you right no not a
pull well yes it's a good question
you're all you're polar bear is pretty
impressive no Grizzly Bear Grizzly Bear
I think Chrisley bad wins well who was
the most threatening predator in
Australia
it's a tricky question here because
everyone's scared of the animals in
Australia but
I mean you've been last night you've
been by spider that's not that bad bear
America bill just hold you down to eat
you that's a much more terrifying
Prospect for me even shocks shock's
gonna be quick no one sees the shotgun
the shock's just gonna watch it we'll
take a bite and chew a bear just holds
you down and eats you so that's uh
that's frightening for me Australia is a
bunch of just weird shit that could kill
you juicy cocaine Bear the movie that's
coming out I saw the trailer it looks
good yeah yeah so there's not every bear
there's like black bolts in this black
belts there's bears and there's Bears so
that I think that's what they often
don't talk about everybody puts lions
and bears in the same category I think
there's just some weak Bears a lion
would kill a black bear I think not
every black again I'm trying to tell you
there's there's difference but Grizzly
and Paul about betting on those yeah no
I think Grizzlies have the size but
actually every video I've seen of
Grizzlies they tie out within like 20
seconds they get bored that's the gas
tank yeah this guy that's a Nikki Ryan
gustang right yeah that's all that's all
they got dream old and they try to just
uh they try to just take a breather like
there's these crazy fights between bears
in the last like 20 seconds I heard this
story about a a Russian family that was
attacked by a bear in Russia and uh
killed the dad and it took so it took so
long to eat the daughter she made three
phone calls to her mom I was eating her
and the first the one thought she was
pranking her
that's crazy that's way scarier of them
give me a snake bite food yeah you know
what let me let me change the question
is um like if you had to
uh fight a bear or a lion
how would you try to defeat it do you
think you have a chance at all well I
think I'd uh I'd attack a line a little
bit differently
what will be the difference okay well
I've seen this video where
um a lions are eating and and you have
three like scritty guys walk up behind
them and kind of scare the cat off of
yeah off of their food I think uh maybe
I produce some props scare the line away
right but if I have to fight it
um
if I have to fight it straight on I mean
the thing is that you can even if you
take the back like you can't like bite
it or choke it the main is too big to
lock your hands around you know are you
sure about that because I mean it's just
hair yeah
it's like it's like matted hair right I
don't know so I think you think you can
take me back a drawing a lion maintain
yeah yeah but but getting there getting
there I think I fake high go low right
they don't think I'm going for the foot
or something a little paw sweep and I
take the back uh what about a what about
a bear I feel like they're easier that
might be easier to take um to hold back
control yeah maybe the thing is if the
bear falls on its back you're just gonna
crush it so it's so big it's
substantially bigger than a line right
like a uh yeah and they're also like
terrifyingly like loud with the rewards
and stuff yeah I think I think so first
of all I saw Grizzly I'm like all right
he's gonna attack me I try to yell a
little bit louder than maybe the term a
little bit like give them yeah and then
uh yeah for sure I try to get behind it
I probably go like uh something weird
maybe like pull the eyes out or
something you know for sure I mean I'm
going for the vital organs you know I'm
play dead play dead and then oil check
it there's no there's no pride in that
well Pride even matters see the ego the
same advice you give you got to put the
ego aside with a bear
even then
uh would you how would you fight a bear
or a lion just play dead like that yeah
all right could you be the camera
uh oh yeah kangaroo I'd beat the shit
out kangaroo yeah yeah I mean are we
boxing gloves we just like how would a
kangaroo attack a human try to kick him
with the claws knock them down and then
they chug him stand on that tail the
kangaroos do yeah they don't choke each
other you don't believe me you don't
watch your video they check each other
out
[Laughter]
strange shit like if there's a predator
around there waiting a pool of water and
then if it comes to attack they drowner
they're pretty smart
uh okay speaking of which what's the
most effective martial art for winning
street fight
you talked about rule sets and streets
I think you've talked about being have
you ever been in a street fight yeah
just one yeah nothing special nothing
crazy hey yeah you don't talk about that
time like for self-defense purposes
will be a strategy on the street whoever
wins the street fights whoever's willing
to take it the furthest the fastest you
know what I mean if you're thinking
you're gonna box and he's biting you
bugging your eyes that guy's gonna win
he wants them more you know what I mean
that's why the crackheads fight they go
for the kill straight away you know so I
feel like it's more about who's willing
to do the most that's going to win that
fight
fastest the most fastest
who's got the least to lose you know
okay we could also Define winning
differently because you could also run
away
but in terms of technique wise
wrestling I think if it's a one-on-one
I'd go I'd go wrestle wrestler wins but
if it's like a you know it's like a
multiple people you gotta go Muay Thai
stay on their feet can't go down to the
ground if it's more than one person
yeah big double leg Maybe
yeah double A put him asleep on the on
the impact right forehead to the ground
yeah what's the goal here is to win the
fight not go to prison
um I haven't thought of it through that
way yeah certainly yeah yeah now go no
not not to kill you got mutual combat
here in Texas we're good is that in
Texas do you know with the paperwork for
that looks like you have to actually
sign something can you just say oh I
don't need to find out
[Laughter]
I did hear a story where guys were on
Sixth Street and they looked at a cop
they were like mutual combat mutual
combat yeah and just got like the cops
to say yes and just duked it out they
could be false though
that sounds crazy
I I kind of admire that but I've also
been playing Red Dead Redemption
recently so I've like internalized the
cowboy a little a little too much just
to return to gym stuff
no because it's a business because
you're running a business there's money
involved but you're also friends
um but you also training Partners is
there um attention that money creates
that can threatens to destroy
friendships
that's something I always worry about
with money I try not to go do any kind
of business with friends or family
I think if it were all very clear and
honest and open at the start makes it
much easier
um I think people have issues when
there's like kind of like things are
written and fine print and nobody knows
the exact answers
and a lot of jujitsu guys can't read
yeah that makes it we're learning that
today yeah hey
uh no
um definitely complicated though
yeah I mean it's not always obvious to
how to be transparent and stuff and
uh about everything
um have you felt that tension because in
the Jiu Jitsu World money is not really
unlimited just running at school what's
that like because it's the first time
you're running a school
running a gym
yeah I mean it's just constantly
updating people about what's going on
what your expectations are you know what
I mean we've had some problems with
coaches who I feel like think the pie is
bigger than it is yeah you know what I
mean they feel like uh maybe we're
getting rich out of this and they're
missing out on things so it's like even
amongst managing staff that can be
challenging too
so yeah I mean it's a constant work in
progress to make not only to make sure
everyone's happy but to make sure
they're comfortable enough to reach out
and tell you they're unhappy
but I feel like those challenges are
common amongst any small business
still it sucks uh just to mention I'm
clueless to this but I'm just not
learning this
uh somebody I met and talked to and I
really like is Isaac
yeah just learned because you're also
active on Reddit what's your name on
right John Belushi's mom as on the cover
as possible you know oh it's not you
it's uh it's actually it's actually John
Belushi's Mom right
uh so and I've done my research I guess
and I guess you guys had ahead of
falling out and have split I just want
to say that
I don't know the few interactions I've
had with him he's a beautiful human
being so and that just shows to me
visually maybe not internally and it's
actually just the experience that no uh
she's just a kind person I don't know I
like them a lot
like to me in a business setting
um yeah tensions are created and it
sucks
I don't know
I mean I I suppose money all the stuff
that happened in the jungle aside
probably money had a role to play to
create extra tension money and egos
about like who is the leader who is not
the leader it's tough it's tough to
manage that kind of stuff I've seen it
happen when Jiu-Jitsu schools a lot I
don't know exactly what because it's
like there's also a hierarchy inside
grappling Jiu-Jitsu schools like people
that are better or not there's literally
ranks black Builder brombo there's like
competitors that are better I mean I
don't it's a weird dynamic in which to
operate because like usually there's
more politeness and like Humanity
layered into the way a company works but
here there's just a bunch of I mean it's
like violence laid on and on display
plus money
it's crazy is there something you could
say to that like how you try to minimize
or something you want to comment on
Isaac yeah I mean it was unfortunate
situation but it just didn't work out
you know like there's going to be
personality clashes
some people uh uh I can't imagine anyone
having a personality clash with you with
me yeah it's hard to imagine yeah
surprising
you know I mean I I didn't even know
what to say on that I don't want to
touch on it too much but obviously
his expectations about his role in the
gym obviously different from house uh
led to some personality clashes that was
sort of unresolvable you know some
things happen that can't be resolved he
can't fix those things yeah you know uh
obviously a lesson I hope for both of us
definitely a lesson uh for me from a
management role to try to address these
things sooner but also sometimes I came
up in a different time where there was
no money no opportunities I had to pave
that I had to pay that way totally for
myself especially coming from Australia
like uh being a professional athlete in
Jiu-Jitsu was not I think so I had to
pave a lot of opportunities for myself
and I feel like sometimes uh
oh I don't know what the right word is
sometimes people don't appreciate some
of the ways you help them and they just
think feel like almost they deserve or
are entitled to certain things and that
is very difficult to manage but I think
again like we we both see the situation
different I do hope he finds a better a
more comfortable place to train but yeah
obviously I've known him for a long time
sort of like a a brotherly relationship
so that's gonna really
make personal problems a lot worse when
you're that close to someone you know I
just hated that like I've seen in
Jiu-Jitsu especially but in other places
where like close friendships were
destroyed because of like gym stuff
like people running gems and it's just
as a person who is in this case just a
fan but in like in general just like a
student it's like sucks but again in my
position sometimes I wonder if there
really was a friendship or mere
opportunity I have to be careful of that
with some people in the sport yeah is it
a sincere relationship or like I mean
it's difficult for me to tell or am I
means to an end
sure but I think it's actually a
trade-off because I think a lot of
close friendships we have like even
relationships we have
like when tested
like can break if they're not properly
communicated like some of it could be
just misunderstanding of like for for a
long period of time
um not not it's not explained it's
really just like a lack of Integrity
it's just like you like you have to like
talk through that shit like just be
honest with each other take some MDMA
really get down to it drugs solve
everything if you've learned anything
from this conversation I've actually
haven't done MDMA yet uh people say that
that's something I would enjoy a lot
because my brain is I think natural on
MDMA
um I'd recommend it for sure for sure
all right
um is that what you did with Gabby and
Valentine okay
um she drugged me
in general why is there seem those seems
to be drama in the Jiu-Jitsu world like
outside of outside of what's going on
here or is that just uh I guess
Universal to anything dramas everywhere
and then drama Rises to the surface okay
imma makes the money yeah I wish there
was a little bit less
uh you've uh you have a bunch of like we
mentioned some of them you have a bunch
of instructionals out what are some
interesting things that uh you're
looking forward to like exploring uh in
terms of teaching so just stand up as
your most recent one right yeah you also
have one called power bottom and
inclusive modern approach to the guard
your time what are some other what are
some other ones false reap allegations
false people allegations yeah by the way
people talk about Powerball again
hilarious title but they say it's a
really good instructional unlike the
guard yeah I try to I try to at least be
Innovative you know like everyone else I
feel like ripping off John and Gordon
putting some sort of slots on that so
I'm trying to take sort of a different
approach uh I think you can actively
influence the sport with what you
release because people are going to try
to emulate that so I think that's those
type of instructions just stand up power
bottom like approaching the sport
definitely I think definitely has a
positive impact on how people play the
game yeah are you working on something
now
probably a fundamentals uh course just
because we're bringing out within the
white Bell program coming in so I'm
trying to develop a fundamentals course
along the line of the constraint based
learning stuff we were talking about
today like a way to approach learning as
a beginner to sort of speed up the
process a bit and I'll make it as so
technique dense at least having a bit
more fun and focusing in on just like
examples of problems to solve exactly
yeah approaching Jiu-Jitsu learning that
way like I mean kids learn quick through
games I think adults are capable of that
to a certain extent as well you're
releasing that instructional on
pre-match Preparation yes well what
other stuff the other thing in a body uh
by a lot pass yeah I have a I have a
body like a writing like DVD or
instructional
um yeah the pre-match ritual coming out
I also have
um I'm filming uh how to build
athleticism for grappling I'm just
really trying to capture different
angles kind of like the same you know
with Craig's doing uh try not to do the
same thing that everybody else does you
know there's a ton of wrestling ton of
jujitsu instructional instructional so
and the steroid results are coming in oh
yeah yeah more Place more dates you know
there that runs that um
hit me up for a blood panel test like an
imprompt thing and uh I did it a few
days ago and I believe the results will
come out shortly oh yeah I do you know
the results what are you betting on Lex
what do you think it's hard it's hard to
believe yeah it's it's yeah it's very
very impressive
you're putting me in an awkward position
here
do you do you think you'll Face Gordon
soon
um I'm open to it I don't know I don't
know how soon maybe in the next six
months I could see me facing him before
uh ADCC worlds
I think that's a great rivalry I think
it's a really interesting one it's fun
for me
um is there any chance
that the the the two the Soviet Union
and Nazi Germany get back together
um the DDS under whatever name gets back
together
no absolutely highly unlikely I mean we
kind of did this to you know um to back
up Nikki Ryan and you know we're
sticking with our guy
also what what do you think uh yeah I
think there's just too many personality
conflicts for it to to Really Ever work
again
do you think there will always be war in
the world
War yeah oh yeah I think from the from
the beginning of time it's it's been you
know some kind of War some kind of
battle controversy it's what what helps
people evolve
uh until AI super intelligent AI becomes
way more powerful than humans
and humbles all of us with his power
before he destroys us no until it runs
out of batteries
it has a screwed
just unplug it
that's awesome
um I'm really fortunate to be able to
hang out with you to train with you uh
and thank you so much for talking today
all right that's the best ending
thanks for listening to this
conversation with Craig Jones Nikki rod
and Nikki Ryan to support this podcast
please check out our sponsors in the
description and now let me leave you
with some words from Miyamoto Musashi
you must understand that there's more
than one path to the top of the mountain
thank you for listening and hope to see
you next time