Kind: captions
Language: en
when it's quiet that's when it hits you
that's what I think that's what a lot of
people experience when they come back
from a conflict Zone you know the
uh everything that was life and death
everything that mattered all the noise
all the chaos all the people that are
around you that would die for you kill
for you you would kill for them uh all
these millions of dollars worth of
equipment and stuff like that you were
responsible for now are all gone and
it's just
you the following is a convers ation
with Ed Calderon a security specialist
who has worked for many years on
counternarcotics and organized crime
investigation in the northern border
region of Mexico I highly recommend you
follow the writing and courses on his
patreon and website EDS
manifesto. this is Al Le Reedman podcast
to support it please check out our
sponsors in the description and now dear
friends here's Ed
Calderon what does your experience in
counternarcotics investigating the
Mexican drug cartel teach you about
human nature wow I mean first off
anybody can be got uh anybody can be
corrupted uh you know you you work in
that field and you you realistically the
training we got and profiling and
investigation andu stuff like that was
basically you learn from the older guys
there and some of those guys were
already corrupted from the from the
start so trust no no one I remember
seeing that xfiles episode where that
was stated you quickly learn that even
if you are somebody that uh to your own
uh mind appears
Incorruptible you know small changes
happen around you Wheels get greased
money gets put in front of you and or
things get threatened like your life and
uh sometimes a payment for some of this
corruption is just to continue on living
you encounter people that seem
Incorruptible that uh go through FBI
background checks that go through all of
the uh the the security measures that
all of us were put through through um
you know polygraph test and then later
on you know it turns out they were on
the take or they became somebody that
was
corrupted I think what I found out is
that anybody at any level they could be
a very strong hard to get person right
now but
uh people get corrupted through their
families uh through need uh Mexico is a
place where a lot of uh instability
occurs um so financial needs health so a
crack could form through the wall of
integrity and then over time it seeps in
somehow Mexico has a culture of
corruption like you know you have your
kid that goes to school at public school
and you want him to be in the morning
not in the afternoon School
uh time period so you go off and uh
Grease the wheels with the uh director
of the school people hearing this in
Mexico will nod their heads because this
is something that happens from early on
so there's systemic thing there's a
systemic and cultural thing to it you
know as far as getting around rules and
this happens because you know the people
are in charge in Mexico the government
is you know there their tandem amount is
trust between criminals and the cartels
down there for a lot of the culture so
people don't trust the government and
much less a criminality so when you meet
a person sticking on human nature do you
think it's possible to figure out if
they can be trusted so you said um
anyone could be corrupt
you know how long would you need to talk
to a person and your even in your
personal private life just a friend or
is trust a thing that's never really
guaranteed I think that trust is never
really guaranteed I know a lot of people
are going to say that's a sad way and
hard way of living your life but you
know life experience at my
end you know people change uh you know
the Dynamics of a relationship might
change um I look at people's character
specifically their past and past
experiences if I can somebody that
presents himself in front of you as uh
somebody but you quickly learn that that
somebody is just a mask or a Persona
that they kind of uh created for
themselves and they might not even be
aware of the Persona like is there some
deep psychological stuff sometimes I've
experienced a lot of a failure in my
life uh you can see it in my nose you
know you can see it in my lack of a a
digit you know um the amount of uh you
know the amount of failures you can see
in somebody and how they wear them
sometimes is a pretty telling thing as
far as them being able to be trusted or
that you can trust their story or their
experience and when I say experience I
mean I've met some criminals like former
criminals or you know some some people
of that background that I trust with my
life you know because they're not not
reformed uh but they figured out that
that's not not a life they could live
long enough to kind of continue on and
and I've also met people that are in law
enforcement that I wouldn't trust with
my car keys you know um because uh you
know whatever Persona they adopt adopted
over the over the years uh is a pretty
good one pretty good mask sometimes such
a good mask they don't even know they're
wearing it and on top of that it's not
just the psychology there's also a
neurobiology to it I've I've been very
fortunate and deliberate to surround
myself with good people throughout my
life but I've recently gotten to sort of
observe not close to me but nearby
somebody that could be classified as a
sociopath yeah and and uh and a
narcissist like I I don't want to use
those psychological terms but
just it's like oh people you know come
with different biology too so it's not
just like the the trauma you might
experience in your early life and all
the Deep complexity that leads uh all
the Deep complexity that leads to the
the psychology that you are have as an
adult but it's also the biology come
with the the nature that you might not
just have the the machine machine that
can empathize deeply with the experience
of others or maybe a machine that gets
off gets a dopamine Rush from the man
manipulation of other humans or the
control of other humans yeah I mean put
an example of my my own background uh my
mom didn't have a father you know she
she he left really early on in their in
their childhood you know my mom raised
her two
sisters and basically kept a household
uh she was a great mom uh she was a
badass you know she was very independent
she showed me how to be independent she
showed me how to kind of watch out for
others and kind of build me up in that
way and uh I had a great childhood as
far as you know as far as her and kind
of like how she molded me later on I
figured out that uh when I had my own
kid you know I I figured out that she
was basically trying to make me into
what she didn't have in a way and if I
can get to see somebody's parents you
know that's usually a that's usually a
sign of uh of something at least uh for
me as far as figuring out where people
are I think there's something to be said
about nature and nurture and how some
people come up some people are just born
with that uh predatory Instinct you know
um and you'll never know I mean they
spend their whole life practicing how to
hide it uh but if you can figure out uh
somebody's you know background childhood
where they're from you can kind of tell
something about them you know I'm from
Tijuana you know I'm a Survivor that's
that's my background as far as where I'm
from
uh culturally
genetically
psychologically the F shebang yeah I
guess some people are born with uh
certain predispositions and if they're
in the right environment some of the
negative aspects might flourish more
than others you know for me I mean I
grew up skateboarding in Tijuana and I
remember breaking into my first uh
backyard pool it was a house that a
cartel guy owned and we used to skate
the pool in the back in the back of it
uh so I learned how to buy padlocks uh
with a uh with a small uh vehicle
hydraulic
lift and I remember doing that and uh
later on in life I got to train with
people from other parts of Mexico and
and work with them and I remember
pulling that trick off and they were
like looking at me like where'd you
learn that like some burglars at Tijuana
you know and they're like wow that's
interesting like are all all all people
from Tana like that and I said no we're
not all like that but I guess in some
way we are because you know
Diana produces some produces kids like
that you know she produces like the
environment itself
produces uh produces a pretty specific
person I guess you know where our normal
is our normal or our Baseline normal is
way different than most the uh
trajectories that you can take in life
are um are defined in a way that aren't
available elsewhere in the world yeah
and so you develop I mean that's part of
that psychological part of that is
cultural and so on um part of that is a
cultural trauma but then then also the
ethical lines based on the corruption CU
I grew up in the Soviet Union and this
there's the same kind of understanding
that there's some great area of
corruption yeah there's it's always
there like the on the outskirts or even
in the center how you can grease things
to make things easier and how it's like
a personal thing I'll I'll just you know
pay off the and Tijuana we have a Mor
that's what we call it you know when you
when you pay a cop off means a
bite so
and uh but what's uh what's the bite
aspect so you get stopped for for a
traffic violation of some sort and the
cop walks up to you obviously you don't
say the word bite but it's like a it's
like a slang term for it and uh he ask
uh for your paperwork and you know and
if you get fined or get a ticket you say
can I pay the ticket here is what they
say and you know put their money inside
the paperwork hand over to the cop more
you think it's you know I'm just going
to do it and nobody know knows you know
but it's a systemic thing everybody like
a lot of people do it and then they
don't trust the police because they are
fed with
this yeah I mean same thing was in the
Soviet Union it's funny but then there's
something inside you where that kind of
uh those opportunities come like uh with
a police officer where you realize you
could just pay a little bit of money and
get out of a thing and then you realize
you can pay a little bit of money or do
a favor they get your kids in a better
school or something like that yeah but
there comes opportunities where you were
all right if if I do this little thing I
can make I can get a huge promotion or I
can get a huge increase in in my power
or get a lot of money and something
inside you says no yeah it's not right
yeah and I wonder what that is that cuz
like
um yeah I want because it feels
different than the legal systems with
which operate there's some kind of basic
human Integrity human decency I I wonder
if that's like constructed or it's
always there if this like again nature
versus nurture yeah I think uh you know
for me it was looking at seeing that in
somebody else that I kind of learned
about it uh there's a man that I
consider a mentor uh figure uh his name
is Lieutenant Colonel Le ala he was a
lieutenant colonel from the army that
basically came over and took over the
group that I used to uh work with uh he
was you know Incorruptible you know he
was uh that that was the the essence or
the the the aura that he projected
um the first time he the first time he
went off on patrol when he was placed in
charge of us I actually you know drove
him around
Tijuana uh he was one of those lead from
the front type of people uh the amount
of assassination attempts he got was
basically a proof of how uncorruptible
he was because they kept trying to pay
him off and when that didn't work they
tried to kill him several times I think
the last assassination attempt took the
use of his legs and that man is still a
dangerous person in my mind but for me
and you know people can gather a little
bit about my background and where I'm
from and some of the access I currently
have uh to train the federal
institutions here in the US as far as my
background and if I was corrupted or not
because there's a lot of that out there
um the the Catholic guilt that's kind of
built into some of us is always kind of
there you
know the devil is under the bed you know
uh so I I don't consider myself Cath
like consider myself culturally Catholic
I think is what what I kind of kind of
say with that I had a pretty good
structure with my dad and my mom at the
house and you know they never let me get
away with uh things and uh I think my
mom was pretty a pretty big moral
compass for me but uh that Lieutenant
Colonel uh kind of leading from example
and seeing his work and how how much a
profound change he caused in the people
that work with him as far as you know we
felt supported and we felt like we had a
guiding figure uh during this Diana was
the most dangerous city on the planet
when I was working there and he took
charge what does it take to be a man the
lieutenant colonel who maintains
Integrity after assassination attempts
is it possible for normal human to do
that or again as a genetic that's an
interesting question I I'll say this uh
seeing him I mean his last assassination
attempt he had that took a use of his
legs he was with his
kid uh there is a recklessness to it you
know I I I I can see that now like now
that I have enough distance from it I
could see that there's a recklessness to
being that way uh and also you putting
Jeopardy people around you if you take
that route so I think there's a
sacrifice to it a very powerful and hard
one to make for a lot of people uh for
me it was I wouldn't get picked to get
on on board with some some of the
operations group that I wanted to work
with because I was known for not you
know taking money or not being trusted
by certain older segments of the of the
organization that I was with with stuff
because they knew that I would you know
I wasn't on the you know they I wouldn't
get money um so there's that there's
there's always a weird sacrifice to it
and you're almost kind of like massis in
that way when you when you when you when
you get approached with it they're like
why are you being an idiot you know why
are you why are you driving around that
beat up car look at the Hummer H2 that
just drove in with the other guy that uh
is doing exactly your same job
um Society society as a whole down there
doesn't reward it or at least doesn't
see it in the people that don't take
that route in Mexico you know for them
is all cops are corrupt you know all of
them uh and you know seeing it you know
again from the outside I'm not there
anymore uh there is you know there's
almost like a why didn't you Ed you
know um it could have been easier maybe
or you could have you could have been
dead long ago you know because people
that are on the takeown there are
usually owned by one side or the other
and when that gets found out you know if
you have somebody that you're paying off
that uh hints you off of drug operations
in the area your Rivals are pretty keen
on killing you money aside so like like
a Hummer aside how much of a motivator
fear it's a big one you know uh I I I'll
say I you know for me like I didn't I
didn't think I was going to lift the C30
and I was sure of it did that concept
scare you or was was that just a
principle of life that you you're Opera
under uh I lost my brother when I was uh
13 on it too like you know he was 19 uh
he was like the uh the VIP of the family
you know you miss him oh every day uh he
was a you know he was a you know
skateboarded uh BMX uh motorcycle Hunter
one of the best marksmen that I've ever
seeing shoot so better than you at
everything yeah he was the best of us is
what we would say and uh when he died
there was a there was was almost like a
concert at his funeral you know I met
three of his girlfriends that all
introduced themselves like the the one
you know yeah I uh to this day every now
and then I get uh pull the side down
when I go back home and uh they uh hey
you're Eric's her ex- brother you know
despite all the stuff that I've done I'm
still you know every now and then I get
recognized
um that uh made my mom and my dad go
into a horrible depression and basically
you know left me to my devices when I
was a
kid um from 13
onwards I had this self destructive you
know aspect to me after that I think you
know again something that's come up in
therapy you know after I've been gone
through all that uh and had this notion
that if I can only die good in some way
shape or form or for something that it
would it would matter and they would
kind of you know look at me with the
same reverence I did at my brother so
dying isn't the problem the goal of life
is to die for something good yeah at
least that was my that was my mindset
going through that job uh I remember uh
I was in medical school before that you
know was second year medical school was
doing pretty good and then 911 happened
and you know that wasn't an option
anymore for me the economy was horrible
couldn't afford to stay there so I saw
this sat in the newspaper and my
brother's my big brother who's still
alive n uh he's
like notas you know you're not going to
do that shit you we wouldn't
dare and all of a sudden I was in a
field having my sh hair shaved off and a
bunch of the uh gothis the guys that
later turned into the Zeta cartel uh
military were in charge of our training
you know and I went went through that
process in what field were you and why
is your head being shaved and what the
hell was going through your mind what
was the leap that you took I was sold
the idea of this being a a new
Americanized police force that they were
constructing you know in Mexico in
Mexico so Elite yeah Special Force kind
of prestigious Elite uh the people in
charge of her training were a lot
basically uh ex Mexican Gaff people
gaffas are what the Special Forces kind
of orig ated a lot of the their members
turned into the uh The Zeta cartel so
they were brutal in their training uh we
were sold this idea of it being you know
scientific uh Ed like educate educated
based and like a career path and all of
a sudden we're in this uh refurbished
prison that uh wasn't good enough to be
a prison and they turned it into a
training
ground and I quickly kind of realized
that they were training us to be a
paramilitary group not a not a community
policing organization is which in my
mind that's I thought that's what we're
were going to be doing what was the
hardest process of that training for you
cuz this is like
a a fragile innocent boy becomes a man
kind of process it's it's uh they're
turning us into something that they
could use so it's a breaking
down uh they break down the individual
you know it's a physically and mentally
yeah I I think it's
a it's a it's a half done initiation
process I think in a way you know
looking at it from now to the past the
uh the Shaving off the hair the uh
stripping off your identity you know
everybody gets a gets a a number um the
uniforms the running around and and uh
you know being treated like human
garbage the first thing they said to us
when we were lined up in that uh field
was a
which means uh there's bread and Dick to
eat here and the bread ran out a week
ago right so it was I mean I can't
equate it to anything in the military
every in the United States because
people down there could actually get
physical with us I mean they could
actually hit us and punch us and shit
like that which is not allowed here
anymore at least in in in in most of the
military isn't as horrible as down there
um AK-47 is being shot around us to to
simulate reality basically causing
hearing loss that type of stuff um so
chaos uh abuse really challenging you
again physically and mentally and an
Open Door there always so if you don't
want to be here you can just walk out
and the more you go into it TimeWise
you're more invested you are so in a way
you're kind of building your own chains
while you're going through that process
were you tempted to walk out yeah
several times several times uh
specifically seeing some of the ways
that uh people that I thought were
better or stronger than me were walking
out or quitting uh because of something
that happened in there uh there was some
sexual assault stuff happening in there
uh as well are you afraid of
that always you know you're in a place
like that and there's females in the in
the environment and some of the
instructors are doing what they do so
that was like a cause for alarm I mean
these people are in charge where safety
and education and look at what's
happening here so you could see some of
the the smarter ones leaving you know
not not looking at this as a viable
choice for Life how did that change you
that uh those few
months I had this motivation this
idealistic motivation in my head you
know of making a difference and they
drill uh they drill a lot of
uh nationalistic kind of uh you know the
flag
marching it uh you being part of a group
and the group being you know behind you
and all of this what was the
nationalistic pride was it in the nation
of Mexico yeah yeah so what's the vision
of this great nation of Mexico that you
were did you believe did did it get into
your blood yeah it it got into I mean
it's an indoctrination you know it's a
it's a paramilitary group so everything
there is basically model after after the
military uh so that's what they were
trying to kind of instill in us I was
a I was a team leader in there after 3
months basically I was um we went
through a bunch of Trials physical
trials um mental trials and stuff like
that and some of us were named team
leaders and I you know bought into it
you know I'm the uh I'm supposed to be
here look at me I'm I'm I'm making
headways I'm I'm uh I'm sticking out a
bit you know and uh I was pretty proud
of what I was going through there uh 6
months
then you get the reality check when you
sign the dotted line and how that none
of it really meant anything as far as
what we were about to go out and do you
know uh an example of this we were
trained with a
92fs uh Beretta which is a 9mm pistol uh
Italian made we got to shoot 20 rounds
out of that
gun and then we when we got out we were
handed a Glock uh 17 which um I've never
seen one in my life I was uh trying to
figure out where the uh safety was and a
few other people there were uh handling
those guns in a horrible manner um uh so
we were very undertrained underere
equipped and there was a lot of
assumptions about what we knew and all
of a sudden we were being cast into this
the the start of one of
the you know bloodiest and longest lived
modern conflicts uh in our history that
doesn't get called that but it's it's
basically been a an ongoing war in
Mexico that uh that is still to this day
you know amassing bodies so the Mexican
drug war the Mexican drug war which is
you know it's hard to pinpoint exactly
when it started because when I was going
through training there was already stuff
going on I went into training in 2004
and there were already you know major
cartel related events all over Mexico by
then but not at the at the size or scope
as I was about to go into you know when
uh president Felipe Kon kind of took
office down there and actually
officially kind of kicked it off by
putting the military in play as part of
a as part of it basically militarize the
uh the drug war you know including us
who are the major players in this drug
war so the politicians the military the
police force the cartels all Mexican
then the United States China just to lay
out all the pieces on the board first
off there are giant local drug markets
in Mexico that uh are fought over you
know just local drug markets that are
huge in scope so no exporting to other
locations just a start yeah yeah so um a
big a big problem in Mexico is basically
those local drug markets and an example
of that and one I have a lot of
experience with is the one in Tijuana
which not only feeds the local populace
but also feeds the populace from San
Diego that crosses down into into
Tijuana and buys their product there um
and now you know phenomenon that's
occurring now is uh marijuana
trafficking is going from California
down into Mexico because they produce
better weed you know which is
fascinating to see now so there's
already a channel and you're kind of
like reusing that channel yeah there's
not lot of people in vehicles getting
check when they drive down and Tijuana
is being called San Diego South now
because you know all the economic
migrants you know um are living down
there 90% of all houses in in Tijuana
new houses are being bought up by
Americans so that'll tell you something
about the impact and change that's going
on down there so you have these local
drug markets that are being fought over
you also have these drug routes that go
through Mexico up into Mexico around
Mexico through the ocean uh under the
wall you know drug tunnels over the wall
and on backpacks uh on uh migrant that
go up into the United
States uh not only do the cartels make
money off uh drug trafficking but also
extortion money laundering uh paid
protection schemes um you know any
mining operation in Mexico will have to
pay protection you know or else they'll
get hit uh a lot of times money the
largest money makers for some of these
criminal groups are you know um
protecting and taxing anybody that goes
across the border so that's also a big
issue uh and it's not just again some
Americans think it's like the cartels
you know they imagine this single or
maybe two or three groups there's
there's several out there uh I don't
have a current estimate but last time I
checked it was somewhere in the vicinity
of 50 to 70 the different groups some
small that just dedicate themselves to a
single little town somewhere there are
armed groups that are basically in
control of that area to some bigger
federations like the caloa cartel which
is probably currently the largest and
most powerful one in Mexico and the new
generation cartel which is growing
exponentially right now um uh so these
criminal groups are are players in that
conflict then another player that
doesn't get talked about as politics
politicians uh there's a there's an
ongoing discussion that has been going
on I think since Trump was elected about
uh cartel's being a terrorist organiz
cartels being terrorist organizations or
not or if they fit that
description well um you know we are
living through uh multiple
assassinations on political candidates
out in Mexico right now and most of
those assassinations are motivated by
one side sponsoring one candidate and
the other side sponsoring the other what
I mean by sides I mean cartel groups so
they're they have elected officials that
are on the take and this is we have you
know many Governors who are under
investigation on the run or in prison
right now uh State Governors so politics
is involved in it that's a big player as
well that doesn't you know when you when
you think about the cartel problems you
don't think well some at least some most
people don't think about that aspect of
it so to have integrity as a politician
in Mexico means you have no protection
and under constant threat of
assassination we just seen the arrest
and prosecution of the head of all Conor
cartel operations when I was active uh
in the form of Garcia Luna Who was the
he was he was the guy Filipe gon who
kicked off the drug war that was his guy
turns out he was turns out he was on the
take at that level is there like a
spectrum of how on the take you can be
are there ethical lines that you can
cross some of it is money and then is it
possible to operate in a gray
area that does
not result in destructive ethical
violations I I deep ethical violations
idea I don't think I don't think there
is realistically I mean anything that
kind of uh supports some of these groups
you know you're supporting things of a
horrible
nature uh there I just posted recently
on my Instagram account of a lady that
was uh in
Guan she's one of seven recently
assassinated women that are looking for
their kids basically uh there's a bunch
of uh groups and organizations out there
in Mexico some in Tijuana that I've
actually watched with who
are taking control of trying to find the
bodies of their kids that's her up there
Maria Carmela Vasquez a mother who
searched for a missing son was shot to
death outside her
home on Sunday her son Oar Vasquez
disappeared on June 14th the 46-year-old
woman is the fifth mother to be killed
this year while searching for their
missing loved ones she was a member of
the yo missing person Collective there's
many groups out in Mexico who basically
have given up on trusting the government
to find their kids um the number of
missing in Mexico is a deated topic uh
because you know the government itself
doesn't release uh those numbers uh or
at least hasn't uh done a good job about
keeping them and or releasing them um
Mexico is a country that has
industrialized Body Disposal you know uh
in Tijuana we had the stew maker the
legendary St maker which is ay a guy
that basically used costic acid uh acid
uh to get rid of bodies at a massive
level so there's a separate operation
for getting rid of B bodies and
murdering the people at least at least
in Tijuana we saw that phenomenon and I
I it's it's obvious that it's it's going
on all over Mexico who's having those
discussions about mass murder and
getting rid of people i' I've been
reading a lot about World War II
recently and there's was aggressive
Innovation on the Nazi side of how to
get rid of large number of people cuz
for the longest time both the Soviets
and the Soviets were more brutal with
this it's it's literally it's a
engineering problem of how you kill a
large number of people and get rid of
their bodies so the Soviets were more
into uh just laying people laying people
down into the grave face down and
shooting them in the back of the head
and then doing that a m scale so you
just let pile people on and then there
was obviously Innovation with the
Holocaust in terms of gessing people and
all that kind of stuff I'm not sure
exactly where these tradecraft skills
are coming from specifically um you hear
discussions of Israelis training some of
the cartel groups back in the late 9s uh
specifically the Arian F cartel there's
a lot of stories about that a security
specialist coming down and showing them
things like how to make costic soda um
how to put uh rocks inside of bodies and
then chicken wire them around and throw
them into the ocean or or river so that
their bodies don't float and when you
kind of you put rocks inside of body to
make sure the body doesn't float so you
uh you open up the the intestinal tract
put rocks
inside uh you cut where tattoos are you
take off hands and faces and throw them
somewhere else and you wrap them in
chicken wire so make it not identifiable
yeah and throw them into a body of water
and this is this this is a horrible
thing but it's it's a craft it's a trade
craft it it's tra it's it's tradecraft
then it's uh it there's there's a link
to the us as far as that that trade
graft you have to remember that uh the
United States had a thing called School
of the Americas and and the CIA and they
showed things and a lot of that uh stuff
is out there in the hands of people that
are of that
generation there's a manual there's a
manual somewhere on uh like with
chapters and it's like how to get rid of
the body there's manuals out there under
time constraints or what what are how
identifiable can the body be afterwards
what what are geographical constraints
all that kind of stuff I think I think
that was common back in the early 2000s
uh and maybe the late 90s when some of
these things were going on but they've
lost even that as far as respect for the
government or bodies being found right
now you what you usually see is just
bodies being burnt to a crisp and buried
in a field somewhere that's usually what
you'll see uh some of the groups like
this uh this woman uh this woman belongs
to basically taken upon themselves to go
out to find uh clandestine Graves uh in
the outskirts of of of the towns that
they're that they live in um probing the
ground with uh these metal
probes and seeing if the uh the whatever
they encounter in the bottom of these uh
these clandestine Graves stinks or not
uh if they find IDs or clothing they
kind of gather that and they basically
present it to the investigative
authorities in the towns or States they
live in which basically doing their jobs
you know over 90% of all murders in
Mexico are never solved uh I mean it's
uh so they they've even stopped trying
to get rid of bodies in that way you
know how does a cartel take power how
does he gain control of this local area
that you mentioned and then grow get
take control of a region and how does it
do so in this dynamic
relationship between um politicians and
the military and the police force it's a
thing that happens over time there's
always been a big effort even when I was
in uh to buy or own certain members of
the police force even when we going
through training some people get pulled
out during training because they were
found out to have some sort of parent or
sibling that was a cartel member or they
uh their FBI background check came back
uh negative you know when they were
already in the training
program um so I I think part of it
is first off they uh take advantage of
the fact that Mexico is a young country
it's a country of young people um we
have a a a big group of young people
that have little to no opportunities to
come up uh when I was in when I went to
take that career path a lot of my
friends took the other option you know
they they went to work for some of these
criminal groups
um so they have this going for them they
basically have a lot of bodies to to to
to hire cheaply and leverage in terms of
uh forcing those bodies to do what
whatever is needed because the
alternative for those people is is
nothing there's no options yeah so you
have a kid somewhere who is working on a
field you know or you have a kid like me
that was out of the job out of school
and the only options for me was uh this
B in the newspaper which seemed like a
long shot or going with uh some of my
friends that had cars now and uh were
hanging out all night at these uh bars
and some of them had you
know Draco AK-47 uh pistols in their
cars and it would look cool you know so
there is a trajectory there's many
trajectories possible in your life where
you could have been still operating in a
uh criminal organization in Mexico yeah
I mean it's there's not a lot of options
you know do you think you'd be good at
it I I don't know I I mean I'm pretty
good at what I do now which is teaching
people how to detect it and kind of
fight against it you know so I think uh
I have a sense that that the skills
transfer pretty well that's also the
dark side of this whole thing a lot of
the people that I used to work with you
know I I know things and I have some
training and I had some specialized
training and I I currently do I've done
you know presentations for the Secret
Service and the FBI and you name it I've
gone there and shown them what I do a
lot of my a lot of the people that I
used to work with who are out of the the
job are in the wind you know and some of
these people are way more trained than I
am you know uh it's interesting what it
the the reason why I get S get looked
for and they ask me questions is because
I actually have the experience that my
University was the most dangerous city
on the planet and when people ask me
about some of that stuff I I could speak
from experience as far as encountering
some of that directly some of the people
that I used to work with who were way
better at it than I am are in the wind
yeah interesting thing in Mexico if you
are of the police organization and you
get fired or you quit you are ineligible
to join another police organization that
that discounts you so for somebody like
me who was a professional operations
group member or police officer in Mexico
of that region there's no options for me
out outside of that so they they
themselves basically have created this
inescapable box for some of these people
that go into that line of work and where
do they go after you
know I've heard offers of $122,000 to
join uh some of these organizations out
there plus you know they get benefits
not like the government you know I'm
still waiting for my liquidation my my
my liquidation check this is been out of
it out of service for like six seven
years I'm still waiting for my
check uh so some of these people it's
obvious that they the opportunities are
presented to them out there are stronger
you know and again the youth is what
gets eaten by this war and that's one of
the main things that they start with
just the youth we had a phenomenon in
Tijuana early early n late 90s early
2000s called the Narco Juniors Narco
juniors are basically board middle
middle middle F middle uh middle class
or upper class families had kids that
were bored and they just joined some of
these cartel groups uh these cartel
groups saw in them opportunities to get
into regular industry to go through the
family businesses to kind of establish
themselves use some of those businesses
to store for storage or figure out how
to use some of their transportation
businesses for drug muing so this is how
they
start and getting into different areas
you know that they regularly couldn't
and you know that's how it starts you
know you owe somebody uh they get into
paid paid protection uh type schemes
which are also common all all over
Mexico and uh soon or later they start
owning businesses and they regulate some
of their income so they become part of
the uh part of the part of the local
economy in a big way I had this
experience in CA where we were driving
down this shitty Street and all of a
sudden it became a cool nice you know
little curvy high like Highway type
thing and I looked around there I like
this is a nice Road and the guy was with
me he said yeah the cartel's built it
you know um you go to some of these
towns and the cartels are the government
there they you build the hospitals they
built the churches they buil the schools
Co happens they're enforcing The Mask
mandates you know they're out enforc
enforcing the mass mandates the the the
stay-at-home policies they're the ones
uh delivering supplies to the to Town's
people in bags you know courtesy of so
and so cartel you know so they they they
become the the Robin Hood characters of
their environments if they're smart you
know these groups basically turn into
that you know Robinhood you know
stealing from the rich and giving to the
poor or at least that's the projection
that they
give what's the role of violence in this
operation I'm extreme uh you know it
used to be that there were rules as you
say like you know don't go after kids
don't go after women but all those
things are gone now you know they had
been gone for I mean decades I think uh
the escalation of violence you know you
kill one of mine I'll kill four of yours
you kill four of mine I'll go after your
family because you
hiding um there's stories of uh high
level cartel people getting their you
know sons and and and daughters you know
murdered mutilated uh and revenge
killings so I think it's uh it's at a
point where it's spiral out of semblance
of a rule set as far as who can get
exposed to some of this violence those
highly produce Isis
videos where they show torture and
executions uh According to some of the
sources that I talked to here in the
United States that were looking at that
phenomenon they said that it seems to be
that that was influenced by some of the
Narco Blog videos that that were coming
out of Mexico early in the early 2000s
basically that some of these groups were
the first ones that got wind of the fact
that you can um export Terror or the
horror that an execution has through
social media way back when Facebook was
a bit more bit more of a Wildland area
you could see these and news feeds uh
videos of executions tortures and stuff
like that coming out of Mexico on
Facebook way back when wow this was a
different time um for people who
criticize social media and the
moderation it's a tough it's a tough job
because a brutal world world out there I
mean I remember seeing some of these
Isis videos on on on Facebook way back
when and they you know they crack down
and all that but uh one that's kind of
clear and I'll see I'm not going to say
where to find it but people out there
might have seen it because some of these
videos get shared through WhatsApp
groups and chat groups out there uh one
of the ones that caught my attention way
back when was a a guy getting two guys
getting executed by
chainsaw um and you know people can kind
of think imagine what that would be like
but uh is it produced on purpose like
it's videotaped on purpose it's a cartel
group caught two rival cartel members
MERS and a way to send a message to
those the Rival cartel is to basically
execute these people in front of a
camera uh I mean you can't get to your
Rivals but you can you can make them see
what they're doing or at least make
their people look at what happens if you
you know invade their territory just an
escalation of brutality in the violence
as well I mean and that leads to Terror
and that a mass communication of Terror
yeah I mean you you have videos of some
of these people engaging in C
cannibalism in front of a video to see
how brutal they are
or uh people taking out somebody's heart
while they're alive you know and filming
it and you know used to be social media
as a whole you would see some of these
videos they would they would get put
down in in in a few days but now there's
uh telegram groups uh there's uh you
know there's Live Leaks there's a bunch
of other uh sites out there that kind of
disperse some of this these videos and
it's basically a bulletin board for them
as far as you know hey you got into my
territory well this is what's going to
happen to
you right is there a game
theoretic way to uh remove this kind of
brutality to deescalate the brutality
because it seems like if a cartel takes
power that exceeds the power of
politicians in in a locality there's a
strong incentive to reduce the brutality
to uh to crack down on this kind of
Chainsaw executions you know uh there
was a recent leak of uh government uh
files call them the wakamaya leaks it's
our version of the of wik leaks I guess
and it was uh mostly uh documents coming
out of the Mexican
military uh I haven't seen it talked
about a lot here in uh stat side but
it's a pretty big thing down in Mexico
and in some of those documents it
revealed how powerless the government is
I mean as far as the military goes so
that's another player in Mexico the
military uh the military has been out in
the in force in the streets basically
doing a policing role since Felipe
Calderon was uh Administration he
basically militarized the drug
war um Felipe Calderon was of uh uh to
the right of the political spectrum and
his main rival who was his way to the
left is now in
power and one of the campaign promises
he had was to demilitarize the the drug
war to send the military back to its
barracks and all that and he's basically
continuing on they just passed a uh some
legislation that basically uh keeps the
military on the streets for a few more
few more years you know um and I think
some of these documents that were leaked
uh are very telling as far as why that
is uh they have the military now has a
vast amount of power when it comes to
security industry I mean they're in
charge of building airports and train
lines in Mexico
now um their documents themselves show
how certain regions uh in Mexico who
have a specific military uh presence
work for one side or favor one side of
the cartel or they're corrupted too so
there's these military forces that are
in part corrupted yes and then the
cartel who operates with violence
somehow finding a balance between each
other and no I it just feels like
throughout human history there's a
dictators or leaders that come into
situations like this and really crack
down on the violence yeah uh so it seems
like that's not happening it seems like
there's a kind of uh Market of violence
happening here there's a systemic uh
Amnesia that happens every presidency in
Mexico so uh president comes in he has
five to six years to do whatever he
needs to do and he does everything and
as soon as he's gone everything he did
even even the what was working gets
chopped off police uh organizations get
uh defunct or CH or their names get
changed uniforms change so there's a lot
of turnover uh everywhere every 5 years
federally there's a turnover and that
things change what about the cartels do
they persist do the leadership persist I
mean the scena law cartel has has had a
Figure Head behind it since the80s the
same one you know uh I mean it's it's a
Federation of smaller cartels that are
all kind of linked up but the pretty
much historically who's considered the
head of the the scena law cartel elayo
Sada has been has been there since you
know since the 80s so in a way yeah he
he's persisting he's surviving all of
these uh
presidencies again these documents that
were leaked are a clear sign of what
strength and weaknesses are there are as
far as the the the government's main
weapon against some of these criminal
Group which is the military and if
people doubt this they can look it up
now online because all these documents
are out there um but you know just a
clear thing the Mexican Navy or the
marina doesn't work with the Mexican
army they don't speak to each other so
that should tell you everything you need
to know as far as uh trust that could be
just bureaucratic dysfunction they don't
trust each other are they both
struggling with the problem of
corruption some of these documents that
are already that are already out there
talk about uh uh the ports in Mexico
which are probably the main conduit of
uh precursors of methamphetamines and
precursors of things like fenel into the
country they're operated and guarded by
the marina right so these things are
happening under their watch and then you
get uh talks talk about the Army in
certain places basically
working uh counter cartel operations to
to specifically one side not not another
you know as far as the Rival groups out
there
and we have a long history of some of
these uh groups going uh military groups
going rogue lettas are a prime example
of this these uh Special Forces uh units
that uh basically turned around and went
to work as bodyguards for the golf
cartel and then decided to but what they
basically did was an internship with a
cartel you know they went out there did
bodyguarding for the golf cartel and
then realized that can do a better job
than they were doing so they started
their own sparking off one of the again
one of the bloodiest kind of like uh
internal Cartel Wars in in Mexico's
history who was Al Chapo Al Chapo was a
part of the leadership or at least a
faction of the leadership in in the
cartel it's a Federation of different uh
of small organization well i' say small
organizations basically families or
organizations that uh conform this
larger Group which is the the Cena law
cartel that is based out of Cena law
basically uh they are people that uh
have uh and power nucleus is there in
caloa I mean uh who was he I think he
was a he was a high level operator for
the SC law cartel he um he had his own
drug routes his own uh networks his
family is uh his family uh nucleus down
there is still in control of some of
those operations so his arrest really
didn't change anything um but he wasn't
The Mastermind number one leader that I
think the media and the government kind
of portrayed him as you know who who was
The
Mastermind if you go down there and you
read uh what most of the uh Brave
journalists in Mexico that we have I say
another aspect of this war is that a lot
of journalists get killed I think Mexico
has a I think has some of the top
numbers in the world and this is no
secret to anybody uh elayo Sada is is
the name of the the historical figure
head of this cartel or at least somebody
who people the or suspect to be the uh
the the main guy or the main person that
is in charge of some of of of this
criminal group is he still alive that's
a going rumor that he's still very much
alive and the interesting thing about
him is that he learned his craft in Los
Angeles so people thinking that scena
law cartel isn't a Mexican thing it's
actually he he apparently learned a lot
of his craft from uh people in the
United States you know and that's the
craft of leadership the craft of
business the craft which which aspect of
The Craft the craft of getting a product
from colia putting it through Mexico and
the logistics the logistics part of
it yeah and he somehow is
uh operating in the shadows so he's not
a known entity I don't have clear number
of this but he was interviewed by a
magazine called processo in Mexico and
some pictures were taken of him this was
over 10 years ago probably and that's
the last time anybody's ever seen a
picture of him what's it like to be a
journalist in that so uh can can a
journalist have a conversation with him
and live nonetheless he asks to to have
that conversation I think he he reached
out to this uh journalist to talk about
it um there's a there's a media Wing uh
to the work that we do a sister page
called
demoler and and it's uh run by some
pretty good people and the way we met is
that I was basically training them how
to work in hostile environments and they
were like oh we're going to go report on
cartel activity in Mexico and I was like
you know that
is a year and a half ago a reporter went
to the president's Daily Briefing uh
press conference that he has they called
him La Mayas pres the president Manuel
Lopez zador and told him to his face
like uh I have threats on my life
they're trying to kill
me and it happened there's been a slew
of assassinations and murders of m