Kind: captions
Language: en
when it's quiet that's when it hits you
that's what I think that's what a lot of
people experience when they come back
from a conflict Zone you know the
uh everything that was life and death
everything that mattered all the noise
all the chaos all the people that are
around you that would die for you kill
for you you would kill for them uh all
these millions of dollars worth of
equipment and stuff like that you were
responsible for now are all gone and
it's just
you the following is a convers ation
with Ed Calderon a security specialist
who has worked for many years on
counternarcotics and organized crime
investigation in the northern border
region of Mexico I highly recommend you
follow the writing and courses on his
patreon and website EDS
manifesto. this is Al Le Reedman podcast
to support it please check out our
sponsors in the description and now dear
friends here's Ed
Calderon what does your experience in
counternarcotics investigating the
Mexican drug cartel teach you about
human nature wow I mean first off
anybody can be got uh anybody can be
corrupted uh you know you you work in
that field and you you realistically the
training we got and profiling and
investigation andu stuff like that was
basically you learn from the older guys
there and some of those guys were
already corrupted from the from the
start so trust no no one I remember
seeing that xfiles episode where that
was stated you quickly learn that even
if you are somebody that uh to your own
uh mind appears
Incorruptible you know small changes
happen around you Wheels get greased
money gets put in front of you and or
things get threatened like your life and
uh sometimes a payment for some of this
corruption is just to continue on living
you encounter people that seem
Incorruptible that uh go through FBI
background checks that go through all of
the uh the the security measures that
all of us were put through through um
you know polygraph test and then later
on you know it turns out they were on
the take or they became somebody that
was
corrupted I think what I found out is
that anybody at any level they could be
a very strong hard to get person right
now but
uh people get corrupted through their
families uh through need uh Mexico is a
place where a lot of uh instability
occurs um so financial needs health so a
crack could form through the wall of
integrity and then over time it seeps in
somehow Mexico has a culture of
corruption like you know you have your
kid that goes to school at public school
and you want him to be in the morning
not in the afternoon School
uh time period so you go off and uh
Grease the wheels with the uh director
of the school people hearing this in
Mexico will nod their heads because this
is something that happens from early on
so there's systemic thing there's a
systemic and cultural thing to it you
know as far as getting around rules and
this happens because you know the people
are in charge in Mexico the government
is you know there their tandem amount is
trust between criminals and the cartels
down there for a lot of the culture so
people don't trust the government and
much less a criminality so when you meet
a person sticking on human nature do you
think it's possible to figure out if
they can be trusted so you said um
anyone could be corrupt
you know how long would you need to talk
to a person and your even in your
personal private life just a friend or
is trust a thing that's never really
guaranteed I think that trust is never
really guaranteed I know a lot of people
are going to say that's a sad way and
hard way of living your life but you
know life experience at my
end you know people change uh you know
the Dynamics of a relationship might
change um I look at people's character
specifically their past and past
experiences if I can somebody that
presents himself in front of you as uh
somebody but you quickly learn that that
somebody is just a mask or a Persona
that they kind of uh created for
themselves and they might not even be
aware of the Persona like is there some
deep psychological stuff sometimes I've
experienced a lot of a failure in my
life uh you can see it in my nose you
know you can see it in my lack of a a
digit you know um the amount of uh you
know the amount of failures you can see
in somebody and how they wear them
sometimes is a pretty telling thing as
far as them being able to be trusted or
that you can trust their story or their
experience and when I say experience I
mean I've met some criminals like former
criminals or you know some some people
of that background that I trust with my
life you know because they're not not
reformed uh but they figured out that
that's not not a life they could live
long enough to kind of continue on and
and I've also met people that are in law
enforcement that I wouldn't trust with
my car keys you know um because uh you
know whatever Persona they adopt adopted
over the over the years uh is a pretty
good one pretty good mask sometimes such
a good mask they don't even know they're
wearing it and on top of that it's not
just the psychology there's also a
neurobiology to it I've I've been very
fortunate and deliberate to surround
myself with good people throughout my
life but I've recently gotten to sort of
observe not close to me but nearby
somebody that could be classified as a
sociopath yeah and and uh and a
narcissist like I I don't want to use
those psychological terms but
just it's like oh people you know come
with different biology too so it's not
just like the the trauma you might
experience in your early life and all
the Deep complexity that leads uh all
the Deep complexity that leads to the
the psychology that you are have as an
adult but it's also the biology come
with the the nature that you might not
just have the the machine machine that
can empathize deeply with the experience
of others or maybe a machine that gets
off gets a dopamine Rush from the man
manipulation of other humans or the
control of other humans yeah I mean put
an example of my my own background uh my
mom didn't have a father you know she
she he left really early on in their in
their childhood you know my mom raised
her two
sisters and basically kept a household
uh she was a great mom uh she was a
badass you know she was very independent
she showed me how to be independent she
showed me how to kind of watch out for
others and kind of build me up in that
way and uh I had a great childhood as
far as you know as far as her and kind
of like how she molded me later on I
figured out that uh when I had my own
kid you know I I figured out that she
was basically trying to make me into
what she didn't have in a way and if I
can get to see somebody's parents you
know that's usually a that's usually a
sign of uh of something at least uh for
me as far as figuring out where people
are I think there's something to be said
about nature and nurture and how some
people come up some people are just born
with that uh predatory Instinct you know
um and you'll never know I mean they
spend their whole life practicing how to
hide it uh but if you can figure out uh
somebody's you know background childhood
where they're from you can kind of tell
something about them you know I'm from
Tijuana you know I'm a Survivor that's
that's my background as far as where I'm
from
uh culturally
genetically
psychologically the F shebang yeah I
guess some people are born with uh
certain predispositions and if they're
in the right environment some of the
negative aspects might flourish more
than others you know for me I mean I
grew up skateboarding in Tijuana and I
remember breaking into my first uh
backyard pool it was a house that a
cartel guy owned and we used to skate
the pool in the back in the back of it
uh so I learned how to buy padlocks uh
with a uh with a small uh vehicle
hydraulic
lift and I remember doing that and uh
later on in life I got to train with
people from other parts of Mexico and
and work with them and I remember
pulling that trick off and they were
like looking at me like where'd you
learn that like some burglars at Tijuana
you know and they're like wow that's
interesting like are all all all people
from Tana like that and I said no we're
not all like that but I guess in some
way we are because you know
Diana produces some produces kids like
that you know she produces like the
environment itself
produces uh produces a pretty specific
person I guess you know where our normal
is our normal or our Baseline normal is
way different than most the uh
trajectories that you can take in life
are um are defined in a way that aren't
available elsewhere in the world yeah
and so you develop I mean that's part of
that psychological part of that is
cultural and so on um part of that is a
cultural trauma but then then also the
ethical lines based on the corruption CU
I grew up in the Soviet Union and this
there's the same kind of understanding
that there's some great area of
corruption yeah there's it's always
there like the on the outskirts or even
in the center how you can grease things
to make things easier and how it's like
a personal thing I'll I'll just you know
pay off the and Tijuana we have a Mor
that's what we call it you know when you
when you pay a cop off means a
bite so
and uh but what's uh what's the bite
aspect so you get stopped for for a
traffic violation of some sort and the
cop walks up to you obviously you don't
say the word bite but it's like a it's
like a slang term for it and uh he ask
uh for your paperwork and you know and
if you get fined or get a ticket you say
can I pay the ticket here is what they
say and you know put their money inside
the paperwork hand over to the cop more
you think it's you know I'm just going
to do it and nobody know knows you know
but it's a systemic thing everybody like
a lot of people do it and then they
don't trust the police because they are
fed with
this yeah I mean same thing was in the
Soviet Union it's funny but then there's
something inside you where that kind of
uh those opportunities come like uh with
a police officer where you realize you
could just pay a little bit of money and
get out of a thing and then you realize
you can pay a little bit of money or do
a favor they get your kids in a better
school or something like that yeah but
there comes opportunities where you were
all right if if I do this little thing I
can make I can get a huge promotion or I
can get a huge increase in in my power
or get a lot of money and something
inside you says no yeah it's not right
yeah and I wonder what that is that cuz
like
um yeah I want because it feels
different than the legal systems with
which operate there's some kind of basic
human Integrity human decency I I wonder
if that's like constructed or it's
always there if this like again nature
versus nurture yeah I think uh you know
for me it was looking at seeing that in
somebody else that I kind of learned
about it uh there's a man that I
consider a mentor uh figure uh his name
is Lieutenant Colonel Le ala he was a
lieutenant colonel from the army that
basically came over and took over the
group that I used to uh work with uh he
was you know Incorruptible you know he
was uh that that was the the essence or
the the the aura that he projected
um the first time he the first time he
went off on patrol when he was placed in
charge of us I actually you know drove
him around
Tijuana uh he was one of those lead from
the front type of people uh the amount
of assassination attempts he got was
basically a proof of how uncorruptible
he was because they kept trying to pay
him off and when that didn't work they
tried to kill him several times I think
the last assassination attempt took the
use of his legs and that man is still a
dangerous person in my mind but for me
and you know people can gather a little
bit about my background and where I'm
from and some of the access I currently
have uh to train the federal
institutions here in the US as far as my
background and if I was corrupted or not
because there's a lot of that out there
um the the Catholic guilt that's kind of
built into some of us is always kind of
there you
know the devil is under the bed you know
uh so I I don't consider myself Cath
like consider myself culturally Catholic
I think is what what I kind of kind of
say with that I had a pretty good
structure with my dad and my mom at the
house and you know they never let me get
away with uh things and uh I think my
mom was pretty a pretty big moral
compass for me but uh that Lieutenant
Colonel uh kind of leading from example
and seeing his work and how how much a
profound change he caused in the people
that work with him as far as you know we
felt supported and we felt like we had a
guiding figure uh during this Diana was
the most dangerous city on the planet
when I was working there and he took
charge what does it take to be a man the
lieutenant colonel who maintains
Integrity after assassination attempts
is it possible for normal human to do
that or again as a genetic that's an
interesting question I I'll say this uh
seeing him I mean his last assassination
attempt he had that took a use of his
legs he was with his
kid uh there is a recklessness to it you
know I I I I can see that now like now
that I have enough distance from it I
could see that there's a recklessness to
being that way uh and also you putting
Jeopardy people around you if you take
that route so I think there's a
sacrifice to it a very powerful and hard
one to make for a lot of people uh for
me it was I wouldn't get picked to get
on on board with some some of the
operations group that I wanted to work
with because I was known for not you
know taking money or not being trusted
by certain older segments of the of the
organization that I was with with stuff
because they knew that I would you know
I wasn't on the you know they I wouldn't
get money um so there's that there's
there's always a weird sacrifice to it
and you're almost kind of like massis in
that way when you when you when you when
you get approached with it they're like
why are you being an idiot you know why
are you why are you driving around that
beat up car look at the Hummer H2 that
just drove in with the other guy that uh
is doing exactly your same job
um Society society as a whole down there
doesn't reward it or at least doesn't
see it in the people that don't take
that route in Mexico you know for them
is all cops are corrupt you know all of
them uh and you know seeing it you know
again from the outside I'm not there
anymore uh there is you know there's
almost like a why didn't you Ed you
know um it could have been easier maybe
or you could have you could have been
dead long ago you know because people
that are on the takeown there are
usually owned by one side or the other
and when that gets found out you know if
you have somebody that you're paying off
that uh hints you off of drug operations
in the area your Rivals are pretty keen
on killing you money aside so like like
a Hummer aside how much of a motivator
fear it's a big one you know uh I I I'll
say I you know for me like I didn't I
didn't think I was going to lift the C30
and I was sure of it did that concept
scare you or was was that just a
principle of life that you you're Opera
under uh I lost my brother when I was uh
13 on it too like you know he was 19 uh
he was like the uh the VIP of the family
you know you miss him oh every day uh he
was a you know he was a you know
skateboarded uh BMX uh motorcycle Hunter
one of the best marksmen that I've ever
seeing shoot so better than you at
everything yeah he was the best of us is
what we would say and uh when he died
there was a there was was almost like a
concert at his funeral you know I met
three of his girlfriends that all
introduced themselves like the the one
you know yeah I uh to this day every now
and then I get uh pull the side down
when I go back home and uh they uh hey
you're Eric's her ex- brother you know
despite all the stuff that I've done I'm
still you know every now and then I get
recognized
um that uh made my mom and my dad go
into a horrible depression and basically
you know left me to my devices when I
was a
kid um from 13
onwards I had this self destructive you
know aspect to me after that I think you
know again something that's come up in
therapy you know after I've been gone
through all that uh and had this notion
that if I can only die good in some way
shape or form or for something that it
would it would matter and they would
kind of you know look at me with the
same reverence I did at my brother so
dying isn't the problem the goal of life
is to die for something good yeah at
least that was my that was my mindset
going through that job uh I remember uh
I was in medical school before that you
know was second year medical school was
doing pretty good and then 911 happened
and you know that wasn't an option
anymore for me the economy was horrible
couldn't afford to stay there so I saw
this sat in the newspaper and my
brother's my big brother who's still
alive n uh he's
like notas you know you're not going to
do that shit you we wouldn't
dare and all of a sudden I was in a
field having my sh hair shaved off and a
bunch of the uh gothis the guys that
later turned into the Zeta cartel uh
military were in charge of our training
you know and I went went through that
process in what field were you and why
is your head being shaved and what the
hell was going through your mind what
was the leap that you took I was sold
the idea of this being a a new
Americanized police force that they were
constructing you know in Mexico in
Mexico so Elite yeah Special Force kind
of prestigious Elite uh the people in
charge of her training were a lot
basically uh ex Mexican Gaff people
gaffas are what the Special Forces kind
of orig ated a lot of the their members
turned into the uh The Zeta cartel so
they were brutal in their training uh we
were sold this idea of it being you know
scientific uh Ed like educate educated
based and like a career path and all of
a sudden we're in this uh refurbished
prison that uh wasn't good enough to be
a prison and they turned it into a
training
ground and I quickly kind of realized
that they were training us to be a
paramilitary group not a not a community
policing organization is which in my
mind that's I thought that's what we're
were going to be doing what was the
hardest process of that training for you
cuz this is like
a a fragile innocent boy becomes a man
kind of process it's it's uh they're
turning us into something that they
could use so it's a breaking
down uh they break down the individual
you know it's a physically and mentally
yeah I I think it's
a it's a it's a half done initiation
process I think in a way you know
looking at it from now to the past the
uh the Shaving off the hair the uh
stripping off your identity you know
everybody gets a gets a a number um the
uniforms the running around and and uh
you know being treated like human
garbage the first thing they said to us
when we were lined up in that uh field
was a
which means uh there's bread and Dick to
eat here and the bread ran out a week
ago right so it was I mean I can't
equate it to anything in the military
every in the United States because
people down there could actually get
physical with us I mean they could
actually hit us and punch us and shit
like that which is not allowed here
anymore at least in in in in most of the
military isn't as horrible as down there
um AK-47 is being shot around us to to
simulate reality basically causing
hearing loss that type of stuff um so
chaos uh abuse really challenging you
again physically and mentally and an
Open Door there always so if you don't
want to be here you can just walk out
and the more you go into it TimeWise
you're more invested you are so in a way
you're kind of building your own chains
while you're going through that process
were you tempted to walk out yeah
several times several times uh
specifically seeing some of the ways
that uh people that I thought were
better or stronger than me were walking
out or quitting uh because of something
that happened in there uh there was some
sexual assault stuff happening in there
uh as well are you afraid of
that always you know you're in a place
like that and there's females in the in
the environment and some of the
instructors are doing what they do so
that was like a cause for alarm I mean
these people are in charge where safety
and education and look at what's
happening here so you could see some of
the the smarter ones leaving you know
not not looking at this as a viable
choice for Life how did that change you
that uh those few
months I had this motivation this
idealistic motivation in my head you
know of making a difference and they
drill uh they drill a lot of
uh nationalistic kind of uh you know the
flag
marching it uh you being part of a group
and the group being you know behind you
and all of this what was the
nationalistic pride was it in the nation
of Mexico yeah yeah so what's the vision
of this great nation of Mexico that you
were did you believe did did it get into
your blood yeah it it got into I mean
it's an indoctrination you know it's a
it's a paramilitary group so everything
there is basically model after after the
military uh so that's what they were
trying to kind of instill in us I was
a I was a team leader in there after 3
months basically I was um we went
through a bunch of Trials physical
trials um mental trials and stuff like
that and some of us were named team
leaders and I you know bought into it
you know I'm the uh I'm supposed to be
here look at me I'm I'm I'm making
headways I'm I'm uh I'm sticking out a
bit you know and uh I was pretty proud
of what I was going through there uh 6
months
then you get the reality check when you
sign the dotted line and how that none
of it really meant anything as far as
what we were about to go out and do you
know uh an example of this we were
trained with a
92fs uh Beretta which is a 9mm pistol uh
Italian made we got to shoot 20 rounds
out of that
gun and then we when we got out we were
handed a Glock uh 17 which um I've never
seen one in my life I was uh trying to
figure out where the uh safety was and a
few other people there were uh handling
those guns in a horrible manner um uh so
we were very undertrained underere
equipped and there was a lot of
assumptions about what we knew and all
of a sudden we were being cast into this
the the start of one of
the you know bloodiest and longest lived
modern conflicts uh in our history that
doesn't get called that but it's it's
basically been a an ongoing war in
Mexico that uh that is still to this day
you know amassing bodies so the Mexican
drug war the Mexican drug war which is
you know it's hard to pinpoint exactly
when it started because when I was going
through training there was already stuff
going on I went into training in 2004
and there were already you know major
cartel related events all over Mexico by
then but not at the at the size or scope
as I was about to go into you know when
uh president Felipe Kon kind of took
office down there and actually
officially kind of kicked it off by
putting the military in play as part of
a as part of it basically militarize the
uh the drug war you know including us
who are the major players in this drug
war so the politicians the military the
police force the cartels all Mexican
then the United States China just to lay
out all the pieces on the board first
off there are giant local drug markets
in Mexico that uh are fought over you
know just local drug markets that are
huge in scope so no exporting to other
locations just a start yeah yeah so um a
big a big problem in Mexico is basically
those local drug markets and an example
of that and one I have a lot of
experience with is the one in Tijuana
which not only feeds the local populace
but also feeds the populace from San
Diego that crosses down into into
Tijuana and buys their product there um
and now you know phenomenon that's
occurring now is uh marijuana
trafficking is going from California
down into Mexico because they produce
better weed you know which is
fascinating to see now so there's
already a channel and you're kind of
like reusing that channel yeah there's
not lot of people in vehicles getting
check when they drive down and Tijuana
is being called San Diego South now
because you know all the economic
migrants you know um are living down
there 90% of all houses in in Tijuana
new houses are being bought up by
Americans so that'll tell you something
about the impact and change that's going
on down there so you have these local
drug markets that are being fought over
you also have these drug routes that go
through Mexico up into Mexico around
Mexico through the ocean uh under the
wall you know drug tunnels over the wall
and on backpacks uh on uh migrant that
go up into the United
States uh not only do the cartels make
money off uh drug trafficking but also
extortion money laundering uh paid
protection schemes um you know any
mining operation in Mexico will have to
pay protection you know or else they'll
get hit uh a lot of times money the
largest money makers for some of these
criminal groups are you know um
protecting and taxing anybody that goes
across the border so that's also a big
issue uh and it's not just again some
Americans think it's like the cartels
you know they imagine this single or
maybe two or three groups there's
there's several out there uh I don't
have a current estimate but last time I
checked it was somewhere in the vicinity
of 50 to 70 the different groups some
small that just dedicate themselves to a
single little town somewhere there are
armed groups that are basically in
control of that area to some bigger
federations like the caloa cartel which
is probably currently the largest and
most powerful one in Mexico and the new
generation cartel which is growing
exponentially right now um uh so these
criminal groups are are players in that
conflict then another player that
doesn't get talked about as politics
politicians uh there's a there's an
ongoing discussion that has been going
on I think since Trump was elected about
uh cartel's being a terrorist organiz
cartels being terrorist organizations or
not or if they fit that
description well um you know we are
living through uh multiple
assassinations on political candidates
out in Mexico right now and most of
those assassinations are motivated by
one side sponsoring one candidate and
the other side sponsoring the other what
I mean by sides I mean cartel groups so
they're they have elected officials that
are on the take and this is we have you
know many Governors who are under
investigation on the run or in prison
right now uh State Governors so politics
is involved in it that's a big player as
well that doesn't you know when you when
you think about the cartel problems you
don't think well some at least some most
people don't think about that aspect of
it so to have integrity as a politician
in Mexico means you have no protection
and under constant threat of
assassination we just seen the arrest
and prosecution of the head of all Conor
cartel operations when I was active uh
in the form of Garcia Luna Who was the
he was he was the guy Filipe gon who
kicked off the drug war that was his guy
turns out he was turns out he was on the
take at that level is there like a
spectrum of how on the take you can be
are there ethical lines that you can
cross some of it is money and then is it
possible to operate in a gray
area that does
not result in destructive ethical
violations I I deep ethical violations
idea I don't think I don't think there
is realistically I mean anything that
kind of uh supports some of these groups
you know you're supporting things of a
horrible
nature uh there I just posted recently
on my Instagram account of a lady that
was uh in
Guan she's one of seven recently
assassinated women that are looking for
their kids basically uh there's a bunch
of uh groups and organizations out there
in Mexico some in Tijuana that I've
actually watched with who
are taking control of trying to find the
bodies of their kids that's her up there
Maria Carmela Vasquez a mother who
searched for a missing son was shot to
death outside her
home on Sunday her son Oar Vasquez
disappeared on June 14th the 46-year-old
woman is the fifth mother to be killed
this year while searching for their
missing loved ones she was a member of
the yo missing person Collective there's
many groups out in Mexico who basically
have given up on trusting the government
to find their kids um the number of
missing in Mexico is a deated topic uh
because you know the government itself
doesn't release uh those numbers uh or
at least hasn't uh done a good job about
keeping them and or releasing them um
Mexico is a country that has
industrialized Body Disposal you know uh
in Tijuana we had the stew maker the
legendary St maker which is ay a guy
that basically used costic acid uh acid
uh to get rid of bodies at a massive
level so there's a separate operation
for getting rid of B bodies and
murdering the people at least at least
in Tijuana we saw that phenomenon and I
I it's it's obvious that it's it's going
on all over Mexico who's having those
discussions about mass murder and
getting rid of people i' I've been
reading a lot about World War II
recently and there's was aggressive
Innovation on the Nazi side of how to
get rid of large number of people cuz
for the longest time both the Soviets
and the Soviets were more brutal with
this it's it's literally it's a
engineering problem of how you kill a
large number of people and get rid of
their bodies so the Soviets were more
into uh just laying people laying people
down into the grave face down and
shooting them in the back of the head
and then doing that a m scale so you
just let pile people on and then there
was obviously Innovation with the
Holocaust in terms of gessing people and
all that kind of stuff I'm not sure
exactly where these tradecraft skills
are coming from specifically um you hear
discussions of Israelis training some of
the cartel groups back in the late 9s uh
specifically the Arian F cartel there's
a lot of stories about that a security
specialist coming down and showing them
things like how to make costic soda um
how to put uh rocks inside of bodies and
then chicken wire them around and throw
them into the ocean or or river so that
their bodies don't float and when you
kind of you put rocks inside of body to
make sure the body doesn't float so you
uh you open up the the intestinal tract
put rocks
inside uh you cut where tattoos are you
take off hands and faces and throw them
somewhere else and you wrap them in
chicken wire so make it not identifiable
yeah and throw them into a body of water
and this is this this is a horrible
thing but it's it's a craft it's a trade
craft it it's tra it's it's tradecraft
then it's uh it there's there's a link
to the us as far as that that trade
graft you have to remember that uh the
United States had a thing called School
of the Americas and and the CIA and they
showed things and a lot of that uh stuff
is out there in the hands of people that
are of that
generation there's a manual there's a
manual somewhere on uh like with
chapters and it's like how to get rid of
the body there's manuals out there under
time constraints or what what are how
identifiable can the body be afterwards
what what are geographical constraints
all that kind of stuff I think I think
that was common back in the early 2000s
uh and maybe the late 90s when some of
these things were going on but they've
lost even that as far as respect for the
government or bodies being found right
now you what you usually see is just
bodies being burnt to a crisp and buried
in a field somewhere that's usually what
you'll see uh some of the groups like
this uh this woman uh this woman belongs
to basically taken upon themselves to go
out to find uh clandestine Graves uh in
the outskirts of of of the towns that
they're that they live in um probing the
ground with uh these metal
probes and seeing if the uh the whatever
they encounter in the bottom of these uh
these clandestine Graves stinks or not
uh if they find IDs or clothing they
kind of gather that and they basically
present it to the investigative
authorities in the towns or States they
live in which basically doing their jobs
you know over 90% of all murders in
Mexico are never solved uh I mean it's
uh so they they've even stopped trying
to get rid of bodies in that way you
know how does a cartel take power how
does he gain control of this local area
that you mentioned and then grow get
take control of a region and how does it
do so in this dynamic
relationship between um politicians and
the military and the police force it's a
thing that happens over time there's
always been a big effort even when I was
in uh to buy or own certain members of
the police force even when we going
through training some people get pulled
out during training because they were
found out to have some sort of parent or
sibling that was a cartel member or they
uh their FBI background check came back
uh negative you know when they were
already in the training
program um so I I think part of it
is first off they uh take advantage of
the fact that Mexico is a young country
it's a country of young people um we
have a a a big group of young people
that have little to no opportunities to
come up uh when I was in when I went to
take that career path a lot of my
friends took the other option you know
they they went to work for some of these
criminal groups
um so they have this going for them they
basically have a lot of bodies to to to
to hire cheaply and leverage in terms of
uh forcing those bodies to do what
whatever is needed because the
alternative for those people is is
nothing there's no options yeah so you
have a kid somewhere who is working on a
field you know or you have a kid like me
that was out of the job out of school
and the only options for me was uh this
B in the newspaper which seemed like a
long shot or going with uh some of my
friends that had cars now and uh were
hanging out all night at these uh bars
and some of them had you
know Draco AK-47 uh pistols in their
cars and it would look cool you know so
there is a trajectory there's many
trajectories possible in your life where
you could have been still operating in a
uh criminal organization in Mexico yeah
I mean it's there's not a lot of options
you know do you think you'd be good at
it I I don't know I I mean I'm pretty
good at what I do now which is teaching
people how to detect it and kind of
fight against it you know so I think uh
I have a sense that that the skills
transfer pretty well that's also the
dark side of this whole thing a lot of
the people that I used to work with you
know I I know things and I have some
training and I had some specialized
training and I I currently do I've done
you know presentations for the Secret
Service and the FBI and you name it I've
gone there and shown them what I do a
lot of my a lot of the people that I
used to work with who are out of the the
job are in the wind you know and some of
these people are way more trained than I
am you know uh it's interesting what it
the the reason why I get S get looked
for and they ask me questions is because
I actually have the experience that my
University was the most dangerous city
on the planet and when people ask me
about some of that stuff I I could speak
from experience as far as encountering
some of that directly some of the people
that I used to work with who were way
better at it than I am are in the wind
yeah interesting thing in Mexico if you
are of the police organization and you
get fired or you quit you are ineligible
to join another police organization that
that discounts you so for somebody like
me who was a professional operations
group member or police officer in Mexico
of that region there's no options for me
out outside of that so they they
themselves basically have created this
inescapable box for some of these people
that go into that line of work and where
do they go after you
know I've heard offers of $122,000 to
join uh some of these organizations out
there plus you know they get benefits
not like the government you know I'm
still waiting for my liquidation my my
my liquidation check this is been out of
it out of service for like six seven
years I'm still waiting for my
check uh so some of these people it's
obvious that they the opportunities are
presented to them out there are stronger
you know and again the youth is what
gets eaten by this war and that's one of
the main things that they start with
just the youth we had a phenomenon in
Tijuana early early n late 90s early
2000s called the Narco Juniors Narco
juniors are basically board middle
middle middle F middle uh middle class
or upper class families had kids that
were bored and they just joined some of
these cartel groups uh these cartel
groups saw in them opportunities to get
into regular industry to go through the
family businesses to kind of establish
themselves use some of those businesses
to store for storage or figure out how
to use some of their transportation
businesses for drug muing so this is how
they
start and getting into different areas
you know that they regularly couldn't
and you know that's how it starts you
know you owe somebody uh they get into
paid paid protection uh type schemes
which are also common all all over
Mexico and uh soon or later they start
owning businesses and they regulate some
of their income so they become part of
the uh part of the part of the local
economy in a big way I had this
experience in CA where we were driving
down this shitty Street and all of a
sudden it became a cool nice you know
little curvy high like Highway type
thing and I looked around there I like
this is a nice Road and the guy was with
me he said yeah the cartel's built it
you know um you go to some of these
towns and the cartels are the government
there they you build the hospitals they
built the churches they buil the schools
Co happens they're enforcing The Mask
mandates you know they're out enforc
enforcing the mass mandates the the the
stay-at-home policies they're the ones
uh delivering supplies to the to Town's
people in bags you know courtesy of so
and so cartel you know so they they they
become the the Robin Hood characters of
their environments if they're smart you
know these groups basically turn into
that you know Robinhood you know
stealing from the rich and giving to the
poor or at least that's the projection
that they
give what's the role of violence in this
operation I'm extreme uh you know it
used to be that there were rules as you
say like you know don't go after kids
don't go after women but all those
things are gone now you know they had
been gone for I mean decades I think uh
the escalation of violence you know you
kill one of mine I'll kill four of yours
you kill four of mine I'll go after your
family because you
hiding um there's stories of uh high
level cartel people getting their you
know sons and and and daughters you know
murdered mutilated uh and revenge
killings so I think it's uh it's at a
point where it's spiral out of semblance
of a rule set as far as who can get
exposed to some of this violence those
highly produce Isis
videos where they show torture and
executions uh According to some of the
sources that I talked to here in the
United States that were looking at that
phenomenon they said that it seems to be
that that was influenced by some of the
Narco Blog videos that that were coming
out of Mexico early in the early 2000s
basically that some of these groups were
the first ones that got wind of the fact
that you can um export Terror or the
horror that an execution has through
social media way back when Facebook was
a bit more bit more of a Wildland area
you could see these and news feeds uh
videos of executions tortures and stuff
like that coming out of Mexico on
Facebook way back when wow this was a
different time um for people who
criticize social media and the
moderation it's a tough it's a tough job
because a brutal world world out there I
mean I remember seeing some of these
Isis videos on on on Facebook way back
when and they you know they crack down
and all that but uh one that's kind of
clear and I'll see I'm not going to say
where to find it but people out there
might have seen it because some of these
videos get shared through WhatsApp
groups and chat groups out there uh one
of the ones that caught my attention way
back when was a a guy getting two guys
getting executed by
chainsaw um and you know people can kind
of think imagine what that would be like
but uh is it produced on purpose like
it's videotaped on purpose it's a cartel
group caught two rival cartel members
MERS and a way to send a message to
those the Rival cartel is to basically
execute these people in front of a
camera uh I mean you can't get to your
Rivals but you can you can make them see
what they're doing or at least make
their people look at what happens if you
you know invade their territory just an
escalation of brutality in the violence
as well I mean and that leads to Terror
and that a mass communication of Terror
yeah I mean you you have videos of some
of these people engaging in C
cannibalism in front of a video to see
how brutal they are
or uh people taking out somebody's heart
while they're alive you know and filming
it and you know used to be social media
as a whole you would see some of these
videos they would they would get put
down in in in a few days but now there's
uh telegram groups uh there's uh you
know there's Live Leaks there's a bunch
of other uh sites out there that kind of
disperse some of this these videos and
it's basically a bulletin board for them
as far as you know hey you got into my
territory well this is what's going to
happen to
you right is there a game
theoretic way to uh remove this kind of
brutality to deescalate the brutality
because it seems like if a cartel takes
power that exceeds the power of
politicians in in a locality there's a
strong incentive to reduce the brutality
to uh to crack down on this kind of
Chainsaw executions you know uh there
was a recent leak of uh government uh
files call them the wakamaya leaks it's
our version of the of wik leaks I guess
and it was uh mostly uh documents coming
out of the Mexican
military uh I haven't seen it talked
about a lot here in uh stat side but
it's a pretty big thing down in Mexico
and in some of those documents it
revealed how powerless the government is
I mean as far as the military goes so
that's another player in Mexico the
military uh the military has been out in
the in force in the streets basically
doing a policing role since Felipe
Calderon was uh Administration he
basically militarized the drug
war um Felipe Calderon was of uh uh to
the right of the political spectrum and
his main rival who was his way to the
left is now in
power and one of the campaign promises
he had was to demilitarize the the drug
war to send the military back to its
barracks and all that and he's basically
continuing on they just passed a uh some
legislation that basically uh keeps the
military on the streets for a few more
few more years you know um and I think
some of these documents that were leaked
uh are very telling as far as why that
is uh they have the military now has a
vast amount of power when it comes to
security industry I mean they're in
charge of building airports and train
lines in Mexico
now um their documents themselves show
how certain regions uh in Mexico who
have a specific military uh presence
work for one side or favor one side of
the cartel or they're corrupted too so
there's these military forces that are
in part corrupted yes and then the
cartel who operates with violence
somehow finding a balance between each
other and no I it just feels like
throughout human history there's a
dictators or leaders that come into
situations like this and really crack
down on the violence yeah uh so it seems
like that's not happening it seems like
there's a kind of uh Market of violence
happening here there's a systemic uh
Amnesia that happens every presidency in
Mexico so uh president comes in he has
five to six years to do whatever he
needs to do and he does everything and
as soon as he's gone everything he did
even even the what was working gets
chopped off police uh organizations get
uh defunct or CH or their names get
changed uniforms change so there's a lot
of turnover uh everywhere every 5 years
federally there's a turnover and that
things change what about the cartels do
they persist do the leadership persist I
mean the scena law cartel has has had a
Figure Head behind it since the80s the
same one you know uh I mean it's it's a
Federation of smaller cartels that are
all kind of linked up but the pretty
much historically who's considered the
head of the the scena law cartel elayo
Sada has been has been there since you
know since the 80s so in a way yeah he
he's persisting he's surviving all of
these uh
presidencies again these documents that
were leaked are a clear sign of what
strength and weaknesses are there are as
far as the the the government's main
weapon against some of these criminal
Group which is the military and if
people doubt this they can look it up
now online because all these documents
are out there um but you know just a
clear thing the Mexican Navy or the
marina doesn't work with the Mexican
army they don't speak to each other so
that should tell you everything you need
to know as far as uh trust that could be
just bureaucratic dysfunction they don't
trust each other are they both
struggling with the problem of
corruption some of these documents that
are already that are already out there
talk about uh uh the ports in Mexico
which are probably the main conduit of
uh precursors of methamphetamines and
precursors of things like fenel into the
country they're operated and guarded by
the marina right so these things are
happening under their watch and then you
get uh talks talk about the Army in
certain places basically
working uh counter cartel operations to
to specifically one side not not another
you know as far as the Rival groups out
there
and we have a long history of some of
these uh groups going uh military groups
going rogue lettas are a prime example
of this these uh Special Forces uh units
that uh basically turned around and went
to work as bodyguards for the golf
cartel and then decided to but what they
basically did was an internship with a
cartel you know they went out there did
bodyguarding for the golf cartel and
then realized that can do a better job
than they were doing so they started
their own sparking off one of the again
one of the bloodiest kind of like uh
internal Cartel Wars in in Mexico's
history who was Al Chapo Al Chapo was a
part of the leadership or at least a
faction of the leadership in in the
cartel it's a Federation of different uh
of small organization well i' say small
organizations basically families or
organizations that uh conform this
larger Group which is the the Cena law
cartel that is based out of Cena law
basically uh they are people that uh
have uh and power nucleus is there in
caloa I mean uh who was he I think he
was a he was a high level operator for
the SC law cartel he um he had his own
drug routes his own uh networks his
family is uh his family uh nucleus down
there is still in control of some of
those operations so his arrest really
didn't change anything um but he wasn't
The Mastermind number one leader that I
think the media and the government kind
of portrayed him as you know who who was
The
Mastermind if you go down there and you
read uh what most of the uh Brave
journalists in Mexico that we have I say
another aspect of this war is that a lot
of journalists get killed I think Mexico
has a I think has some of the top
numbers in the world and this is no
secret to anybody uh elayo Sada is is
the name of the the historical figure
head of this cartel or at least somebody
who people the or suspect to be the uh
the the main guy or the main person that
is in charge of some of of of this
criminal group is he still alive that's
a going rumor that he's still very much
alive and the interesting thing about
him is that he learned his craft in Los
Angeles so people thinking that scena
law cartel isn't a Mexican thing it's
actually he he apparently learned a lot
of his craft from uh people in the
United States you know and that's the
craft of leadership the craft of
business the craft which which aspect of
The Craft the craft of getting a product
from colia putting it through Mexico and
the logistics the logistics part of
it yeah and he somehow is
uh operating in the shadows so he's not
a known entity I don't have clear number
of this but he was interviewed by a
magazine called processo in Mexico and
some pictures were taken of him this was
over 10 years ago probably and that's
the last time anybody's ever seen a
picture of him what's it like to be a
journalist in that so uh can can a
journalist have a conversation with him
and live nonetheless he asks to to have
that conversation I think he he reached
out to this uh journalist to talk about
it um there's a there's a media Wing uh
to the work that we do a sister page
called
demoler and and it's uh run by some
pretty good people and the way we met is
that I was basically training them how
to work in hostile environments and they
were like oh we're going to go report on
cartel activity in Mexico and I was like
you know that
is a year and a half ago a reporter went
to the president's Daily Briefing uh
press conference that he has they called
him La Mayas pres the president Manuel
Lopez zador and told him to his face
like uh I have threats on my life
they're trying to kill
me and it happened there's been a slew
of assassinations and murders of members
of the press all over Mexico it's not an
easy job uh either they say too much or
they say things that favor one side or
the other which is another aspect of it
that is interesting I don't I don't
consider myself a reporter I don't
report on the news in Mexico I have
friends that do that very well I
commented on some of it only uh but you
see a lot of these uh cartel reporters
go down there talk to a specific side
and basically speak one side of the
story and that is not something that the
other side wants you know if you if you
go down there and speak to one side
you're saying what they want people to
know or hear so in a way you're kind of
spreading some of their cartel
propaganda in a way and that's how some
people you know get shot do you think
it's
possible to go in there and have a
conversation with a cartel leader well
Shan pen for somebody like me for
somebody like Shawn pen this is what I
will say uh after after that whole Sean
pen thing I think a lot of people would
reconsider meeting with anybody of any
level that has any notoriety here in the
United States they don't they wouldn't
trust anybody to get that close um there
are people out there that will talk to
reporters you know people that are
working on a on a lab laboratory
somewhere in a hillside somewhere down
down south you know in the
Sierra uh you know lowlevel people that
get authorization to speak to reports
and stuff like that but they don't say
anything that isn't being taught or or
shown in various different ways or
Outlets out there for them
I mean some of these guys have Instagram
accounts you know some of these guys
blog about it you know but not the
leaders Tik Tok no not the leaders I
think after what happened to to aapa
Guzman I think that that uh that
opportunity that window was closed uh
for for some of the leadership down
there I think I disagree I think uh
they're just more
sensitive realizing that there has to be
a deep trust it's not just anybody and
not any high-profile I've gotten a
chance to speak to some very
high-profile leaders that don't speak to
journalists and they understand the
value of
trust if they have something to say
which I don't think they do you know I
don't think they Le unless at some point
in the future which is something I
suspect might might be coming that there
is some sort of armed intervention and
or external attack on some of these
criminal
groups that really puts the pressure on
them you don't think there's a a human
aspect to this of a human being wanting
their story to be known versus versus
this is different than the propaganda
machine of I have something to say I
have some message to put out there to
play the game of politics and power and
money and all that kind of stuff isn't
there also a human being underneath all
that armor that for for the sake of
perhaps ego Legacy wants to be
understood I think in a way they already
do that uh there's coridos which are
basically Mexican folk songs that get uh
that get uh sung about some of them so
in a way some of these some of these
singers are reporting on some of their
lives and it's like a it's a great honor
to have a Coro made about you know I
somebody somebody made a Coro about me
based on my interviews right I didn't
pay for it so it's a real one yeah it's
it feels cool so creating a myth the
legend of the man I think it's about uh
I think a way you can you can find
somebody like that is somebody that
wants to get their story specifically
clear and straight uh you
know coming from that culture and
getting to work for the government down
there and then not being not working for
the government down there and being on
the outside being critical of not only
the government that is in place now but
also the government that I actually work
with uh I can tell you that there's
villains all over the place down there
everybody's a villain you know at at all
levels in in some way shape reform and
some of these
people I think in a way including El
Chapo I think that some of that that
meeting was about film rights and and in
stories and being able to get his story
out there I think I don't I'm not I'm
not too sure because I wasn't there but
I suspect that some of that was going on
if you can bring an honest voice down
there they can trust to put that out
there yeah I mean I think he I I think
you could try I'm interested in that
kind of thing I uh because ultimately in
some of those places like inside a
cartel at the very top is when you can
really look at the raw aspects of human
nature in a way you can't necessarily
elsewhere there is a youth coming into
power down there and when I say a youth
I mean some of the old guard is going
out and some of the new guard is coming
in uh an example of this is uh El Chapo
Guzman's uh sons who are now in their
own right kind of getting gaining Legend
secondary status uh his uh his son there
was an attempted arrest on his son that
led to the uh famous kak gaso incident
uh which we are now learning more about
because some of the guacamaya Leakes are
kind of speaking more about what
happened that day uh basically a federal
operation uh to they say to to arrest El
Chapo Guzman's uh son um turned into a
Siege to try and get him free they uh
called in the calvary basically the
whole of the scena law cartel showed up
to try and rescue him interesting thing
about that is in reading some of the
documents and also just seeing some of
the videos and stuff like that came out
of that incident the cartels were the
ones evacuating the citizenship from the
area they were the ones going restaurant
to restaurant hey if you want to exit
the city go through here take your
families get down but you have to leave
because the arm coming here they're
going to fight
us um so there's like a deep morality
too to all of that underneath the
violence there's a Humanity I mean it's
their home it is their home uh and they
were fighting for their home and they
were fighting for leadership from their
home uh there is a morality there is a
Humanity there and again I don't if
people want to paint them all with the
villainy aspect you know uh that's I
mean everybody's a villain in every in
somebody else's story you know if we if
you kind of look at it that way people
should check out your patreon you should
check out your field notes you you're a
really good writer your Instagram to you
write about you have a quote in your
field notes about
villains quote I once worked for a
villain a savior to some and a biblical
demon of old to others a true product of
his
environment he was the best and the
worst of us we're all potential villains
in someone else's story he would say to
us as you as we would head out into the
unknowns that the night had waiting for
us it was during one of these nights
that I looked around me and saw horns
and pitchforks among my people and
realized what he meant we were no
Knights of the Round Table whatever we
were we were needed in the end I guess
that justified most of what was about to
happen uh do you think elcha do you
think people like him are good or evil I
think there's no one without the other I
think there's a there's a cost to
there's a cost to uh their goodness that
they do you know the roads they build
the hospitals the career pass that they
pay for uh there's there there are
doctors in Mexico that their careers
were paid for by some of these groups uh
and they do a lot of amazing good for
the community I remember there was a uh
a
surgeon uh reconstructing cleft
pallets in one of my travels that I did
out there I I I had I spent some time
actually going out there be after I got
out of the job to train people and the
the type of stuff that I show people and
and uh they uh they told me like I told
them like you're doing God's work this
stuff this stuff is like legit this is
God's work you know building Smiles for
people it's like yeah and then can I
talk to you yeah he said you know my
career path was paid for
by Cartel a group of cartel members they
paid for my career path because they
wanted somebody on hand that could fix
their
teeth do you think some aspect of that
is just sort of manipulative control
or is some of it also just again a care
for the population for fellow human
beings that are one of your own I think
both you know I think there's again it's
hard to it's hard to just make them
Saints or or Devils you know the uh the
some of the good they do in some of
their communities and don't ask anything
for in return you know uh and even if
they don't ask it for anything in return
where the military shows up they are
immediately melt met with rocks and
roadblocks and everybody's uh main
weapon down there since most Mexicans
can't buy or own firearms they the main
weapon down there is silence and their
eyes to report to the people that they
uh consider the good guys in their
environment right
so that's a hard question you know I
think uh I think there's a bit of both
and both the the government and the
criminal groups that are operating down
there silence is their main weapon
so El chap is currently in
prison is he worth talking to I'd say
yes is there things that to you are
interesting about him that are still not
understood is he a window into something
that you don't understand about that
world still or curious about in that
world I think he's a window into the
family dynamics of that world when I say
family Dynamics um Mexico has a big
thing about Compadres you know and
armanos like we have people that we call
family that were not necessarily their
family uh he is somebody that witnessed
the the the construction of what is now
the scen of La cartel like he was in it
way back when he started off as a as a
farmer and then went into trafficking
he's from a town called V wat which is
basically you know that's the uh the
wakanda of cartels basically that's
where a lot of that
originates um the the things that he saw
as far as how some of these things got
built I think would be an interesting uh
topic of conversation with somebody like
him so that story is a story of evolving
family Dynamics so part of the story of
the cartel is individual humans marrying
other families uh getting uh getting
named the Pino basically Godfathers to
other people's kids um forming family
and Blood Ties and influence ties to
people not only in Mexico but in the
United States and seeing how that
Dynamic and family Dynamic is still
there you know a so he's gone he's in
prison but he is he's probably on his
way to be our next uh clandestine Saint
you go to the uh the chapel of
malde Mal is basically a Mexican Robin
Hood the folk Saint down there who uh is
a saint of traffickers and at his
Shrine you have small little Chapo
Shrine right next to it so he's on his
way to sainthood in Mexico you not not
recognized by the Catholic church but
that doesn't matter in Mexico
anymore speaking to somebody like him
who you can consider him somebody that
lost you know he's is arrested but his
family is okay his uh his legacy is out
there he's going to be named he's
probably going to be the next folk Saint
when he passes away you think he feels
like the new wave of what the cartel has
become has betrayed him has left him
behind or um because it seems like the
way the cartel operated has changed over
the decades yeah well number one their
power and influence is bigger you know
uh they there are Cena laa cartel
operations in Colombia straight from
straight to the like in the source of it
and uh then there are clear uh they have
a clear presence in in places like
Chicago and Los Angeles uh they're in
the United States the whole thought
process that a lot of Americans have
like ah we don't want that that uh
trouble over here we don't want them to
get here or like build the wall and all
this so they're deeply integrated into
legitimate businesses I mean they've
been having kids and families up here
since for a long time some of these
people have pass American passports that
work not only directly for them but have
Blood Ties down there you know there's
been dragnets and arrests of some of
these uh criminal organizations States
New Generation Cel had one two three
years ago where I think it's operation
anakonda I think it was called there was
there over 80 of their operatives and
this is a new cartel that is very
militaristic and growing in Mexico and
they had over 80 arrests in the United
States you know that uh of members of
them operating here and so you could be
a legitimate operator inside the United
States that's hard to detect makes you
wonder how many in uh the US
government the politicians here is it is
the the role of the United States in the
drug war financially in terms of power
is very big yeah surely there's
politicians that have a finger into this
immigration is part of it uh illegal
immigration as part of it and the
influence that that has as a as a
bargaining chip and a political chip we
saw this with the first Caravan kind of
coming up and how it was
politicized the money fast and furious
and guns being basically let walk down
into Mexico people that don't know
basically the ATF had this operation
where they were looking at straw
purchasers of firearms basically people
buying up a specific type of firearms
that were on a shopping list that the
cartels wanted to buy including uh you
know 50 Cals uh FN 57 pistols which are
small pistols with a high velocity round
that will go through a bulletproof vest
um AR-15s of all kinds uh that could
quickly be modified into full auto down
in Mexico with a with a drilling a few
holes and making a few things uh to them
so these people were buying all these
the ATF was watching them and allowing
them to walk those Firearms into Mexico
under the guys of trying to track them
somehow which doesn't make a lot of
sense for most people to kind of look at
that operation the only people found the
only reason people found out about it
was because of the murder of a few
federal agents of the US federal agents
that were killed with those guns one of
my friends was shot with one of those
pistols outside of his house and they
shot him and they shot her his wife both
of them were killed
daughter was in the back seat lost uh
part of her arm when that happened the
guns were unique they were like oh we
didn't never like the matap polias is
what they call them them they're the cop
killers I hadn't seen those before so
they were unique and interesting and
later on in life I was watching CNN and
seeing the hearings going on I was like
oh that's where they came
from uh two federal agents changed a lot
and it was politicized there was a whole
scandal up here but in Mexico how many
people died with those uh Firearms you
know being let down being let go down
there and also what type of sentiment
you think the local populace has of the
United States after all those guns were
basically handed over to some of these
groups gun trafficking is another giant
part of the equation and part of the
problem down there as far as uh as far
as the amount of Munitions uh weapons
and now we were also getting um
tradecraft material from conflict zones
outside of Mexico so weaponized drones
the first time we saw uh some of those
weaponized drones was uh in
Syria and like like a few weeks later
you know grenades were being dropped on
the roofs of some uh public officials uh
building cartels are using drones yeah
that's been going on for a while there's
a place in mokan and has some pretty
interesting videos and the interesting
part of them is because the federal
police down there are actually working
hand inand with a United cartel Unos
Group which is basically the local
cartels to try and fight off the new
generation cartel moving into mokan so
even the the federal forces are fighting
with the cartels to try and keep this
larger cartel out and there's videos of
these uh civilian drones basically
dropping explosives uh they found some
explosive testing ranges out there that
are basically replicating stuff that you
would see the IRA use during the when
during the troubles out there from
homemade
mortars um you know IEDs have been used
in Mexico that not that much but there
they're making like a presence again you
know we don't have a lot of ordinance
around like Iraq but we do have a big
mining industry down there so mining
mining explosives of all kinds are
pretty easy to get so you start seeing
that and also I mean there's some exotic
Weaponry coming in from the south now
and from the ocean that some of it is
probably us uh military equipment sold
to various South American governments
that are now not as stable as they were
and they're kind of making their way
into black market so a lot of those uh
50 Calon vehicle mounted technical type
machine guns and some of the RPGs and uh
man pads or remote control guided
missiles that you that have been found
in cartel hands are probably come making
their way up from down south do you get
these like multi-million dollar systems
like the highr system in the in the
Ukraine you get like super sophisticated
advanced technology or not so like this
is like military grade I'm not sure what
the application would be exactly in in
the Mexico some of the SOP some of the
sophisticated stuff I've seen are man
pads which is basically remote guided
missiles I've seen some of those found
down there what is the application
exactly a display of power there are no
fly zones over parts of Mexico for this
reason the new generation cartel took
down a helicopter
there's been incidents of military
helicopters falling from the sky and it
it they they said that it was mechanical
issues but again I'm not I'm not going
to do conspiracy theories out there but
there's there's a lot of videos on Tik
Tok of uh Cena cartel forces at parties
you carrying around uh rocket launchers
on their backs and you know so so
there's an increased probability of
mechanical failures over those areas
when you're flying
helicopter yeah there's no fly zones
over some parts of Mexico and uh oh man
another thing you're seeing now is night
vision uh night vision equipment uh that
is clearly military grade from the US
that was probably abandoned in some War
Field out there maybe Afghanistan or
somewhere like that and it's uh it's
being found in safe houses and in the
hands of cartel forces you want to talk
about a scary opponent somebody wearing
night
vision with a suppressed fire arm those
types of capabilities are now out there
also there's this uh tendency to think
uh and every now and then you'll seees
these cartel videos with these guys
carrying around these 50 Cals and they
show up they stand there like you know
like boasting about the rifles and
everybody laughs at them because a 50
cal or anything like that without a
optic on it you know is like you're
going to shoot you're prey and shoot
basically see if you can hit anything
with it uh but now there's a a few of my
sources have I've seen you know
sophisticated uh laser guided uh rang
finders and and sighting systems on some
of these that are being found out there
how much damage can fatig C what was the
application they started getting them
specifically with the proliferation of
armored vehicles in Mexico Mexico has a
giant industry and armored vehicles as
far as so there's a race in terms of uh
armoring like protecting especially high
value targets and then weapons that can
deal with those armored ected high value
targets there was U an attempted
assassination of a state prosecutor
somewhere in I think central Mexico I
forget exactly where but she was uh
riding around a up armored uh
Jeep uh Cherokee I think it was and
their main means of of uh Firepower was
50 Cals and that car was left in pieces
she survived and it so I think the armor
vehicle company that sold her that
vehicle has it in the display room um uh
then before my time probably 2 three
years before I was actually active they
tried to kill the head of public
Security in in in the state of Baja and
with him it was a grenade launcher 40mm
grenade launcher it uh it skipped off
the ve the armored vehicle and landed in
the the the car behind it made the back
explode uh one of the guys that I used
to work with was actually in that car he
survived it um but you started to see oh
they're you know using armor vehicles
now let's get 50 caliber
now to try and defeat that armor uh so
that yeah there's there's there's always
this uh this race of Technology
basically down there armored vehicles
you know how do you take on an unarmored
vehicle well there's a few ways 50 Cals
you know if you can mount them in a
right way and shoot at a car like that
or a bunch of kids with balloons and uh
acrylic paint on the front windshield
and blind the vehicle so it doesn't so
they can't drive it anymore there
another way um toll line across a road
painted like the painted painted black
so you can't see
it and cut the thing in half again I'm
not saying any secrets these are things
that people have seen out there
uh shoot at the radiator you know uh
some of these radiators are not uh even
the more sophisticated uh Vehicles out
there don't have a sufficient uh
armoring around the radiator or the
battery housing of some of these
vehicles there was a case of a guy I
think his nickname was at bakas or
something like that out in Cena level
cartel guy had an armor vehicle he was
you know riding around and he got
ambushed he shot at his car he was like
ah I have armor you can't shoot me and
somebody went up to his car and just put
the barrel right in the locking
mechanism and that got him you know
so it's an interesting place as far as
people getting certain types of guns
armor is prolific down there I mean
everybody down there all the Cel cartel
M you see them wearing plate armor so
that's an issue it's not like
you can shoot somebody Square in the
chest and it'll go down are they afraid
to kill Americans so I know I was
traveling in Ukraine on the front so
like a lot of the journalists would
travel in like armored
vehicles and at first I was like it
seems like this would attract attention
yeah like it seems like they would want
to hit those targets but then then I
realized over time as I learned there's
a there's a fear of killing Americans
there could be a drastic escalation of
yeah it's not
a beehive
yeah it's yeah there's there's there is
a tendency to shy away or stay away from
that you know I mean these they don't
want the Heat or the attention outside
of that everyone's game everyone's game
but also there's been many cases of
Americans being killed down there I mean
we saw the Mormon Massacre uh happen
down there and all of them were American
Mexican they had both nationalities and
blonde kids you know white being uh
massacred in the middle of a desert uh
and the cars uh basically Catching Fire
this happened and you know the America
Americans uh sent the FBI down there to
kind of review some of what happened
down there and uh I think that was when
Trump started uh talking about kind of
Reviving this whole notion of cartels
being labor terrorist organization
probably more for of a political
pressure point he was using to try and
get Mexico to reinforce its Southern
border uh which it hasn't but there's
escalation you know oh this this already
happened and nothing happened so we can
probably get away with it you know and
again there's a newer generation moving
forward now of people coming into power
more brutal more technically Savvy well
they have the experience of their
parents and the people behind them and
what they've done and went gotten away
with and now yeah more Savvy about
information Warfare their main
recruiting tool is Tik Tok you go to Tik
Tok and you'll see a bunch of these kids
uh at a narco party dancing around and
some of these are videos by Cartel
members filming other cartel members in
cartel control territory and that's a
window into that life
for who's on Tik Tok now kids and the
enticing aspect of that is the money the
fun the High Roller life and the
possibility of making it to a level you
know yeah a Fame of uh respect
power money here in the US somebody
might you know I want a mansion and I
want like that that's their mindset I
want to live you know like that rapper
down there I mean if you can buy a house
for your mom you know or pay off some
debts that she might have or a car
that's enough to kill for yeah so you
also one of the many things you did is
uh you did security tried to protect in
this this in this war try to protect
people high value people how do you do
you and others how is it possible to
protect a high value Target like a
celebrity or an important politician in
the situation so I was uh I was tasked
to protect uh the governor of Baja and
his family I was basically replacing a
whole contingency of people that were
already there that turned out to be
corrupted that was in my field I was
operational I was working with other
people doing the counter
narcotic stuff and uh the director of
the institution that I was in basically
called me in and said hey uh you're
going to go and replace this these
people and I what happened to them
well so you were known as a person that
could be kind of trusted I was tasked
for that so I I think they considered
that and uh and I I specifically worked
for a governor named uh
jaman uh who was probably one of the
best Governors we have had in the state
and people want to see if I'm
trustworthy or not they can ask him
directly and I I still speak to some of
members of his family and we're still
you know friends in that way is
protecting people like technically a
difficult problem to solve for my
experience in that time and in place he
was basically spearheading you know
counter the the drug war in Baja when he
was in power so he had threats from all
over not only him but his family first
thing I realized working that job in
Mexico is that uh we had we had people
coming in to do specialized training of
that regard Israelis you know teaching
us how they would do things in Israel
that didn't make a lot of sense for us
in Mexico you know uh we had people that
had some Secret Service experience kind
of show us how showing us how they would
do like celebrity bodyguarding or
bodyguarding somebody maybe in
California of that nature didn't make
sense for us then we got to experience
some cross training with some uh nsw
Naval Naval special Warfare people who
were coming off uh protection details in
Afghanistan and Iraq is there some
useful crossover there we were
struggling with the acceptance that we
were basically doing protection details
in a war zone so the
approach uh that had to be taken in
Mexico was similar to the approach he
would Tak in Afghanistan during a war
some of the overt militaristic type
approaches to security that we had to
adopt you know from uh we didn't move
him in a single armored vehicle we had
two of them that looked exactly alike so
when we would move around we would
switch one card through the other every
now and then we would arrive to an event
they would open the door and it would be
one of us and they were like hey like
where's the governor he's in the back
one so they would move to that so we had
to do stuff like that and again this is
a young me who didn't have any
specialized training I was I was on
YouTube learning learning some of these
things uh going online learning about
armor vehicles learning about
architectural armor I think you just
described a large percentage of the
Ukrainian military how they operate
which is on YouTube trying to figure out
how to use some of this techn and and uh
that's actually incredibly effective
yeah you know I do quite a lot of stuff
where I'm totally not an expert totally
uneducated and so on it's kind of
surprising how quickly you can get
caught up as we're talking offline if
you take a course if you talk to an
expert if you learn from an expert you
can like catch up really quickly for me
it was all of a sudden I have this uh
director calling me in and I'm wearing
Vans you know and jeans you know t-shirt
and all of a sudden I had 80 80 some
people that I had to move around and I
was in charge of U securing planes and
uh which I what do I know about that
airport hangers uh armored vehicle
maintenance and and and purchasing and
figuring out how to set up a counter
assault uh group for for a protection
detail and I was like where I'm going to
learn all this were you able to quickly
figure figure some of these things out
on fly basically you know as I was going
I remember having this experience uh
being in the uh our security office on
my laptop figuring out how to set up a
counter surveillance uhp side to our
protection detail basically how to have
people looking for people that might be
looking for us you know type thing and
then going
to uh San Diego to
corado and training with some people
from uh former seal guys and NCIS people
who did that job in war zones and seeing
them critique some of the solutions that
we came up with on the Fly and being
like Oh I we never saw that before Oh
yeah this is we're doing it down there
so getting that compliment and also
getting their you know feedback like we
probably do this or do that and it it's
it was a learning process on the Fly
that was pretty I mean seat of your
pants level is it possible for the
family and for the high value person to
um to have a sense of normaly to have a
normal life I mean I tried I was already
starting off on the on the wrong foot
basically because trust had been
violated by the people that I was
replacing so I had to gain that back
then young kids in that family that
wanted to have a you know go out and
stuff like that in the most violent city
on the planet so I had to do my homework
and figure out places where they were
safe to go to and make friends with
certain club uh owners and figure out
ways to put Security in some of these
places and having to create this bubble
of normaly around some of these people
was pretty difficult and uh there's no
way that that is uh a normal for anybody
and you know you know God bless them the
the I know it didn't I know it wasn't
easy and I know it affected their lives
and they they lost on a big part of
their youth being under that that
security supervision and
bubble does probably does a lot uh for
for somebody specifically growing up
like that you know uh you lose
opportunities of things that we take for
granted you know just going out just not
telling anybody and going to the store
you know because you want to get some
snacks or something like that that's not
available to some of these people I have
to be honest when I was in Ukraine that
was a really big benefit youd Escape no
I couldn't hang out I couldn't eat when
I'm stressed I would fast and not eat
much so I get lost weight so it's great
it's great for the diet it's diet to be
basically be under protective custody
that's a that's that's that's a an idea
for a good new diet and just life it
allowed me to focus get a lot of reading
done uh focus on the important things in
life I mean uh I I joke of course but
there's
some there's some complexity to this in
terms of normal state of the family but
also just how to operate like have a
mental Clarity and a lack of fear just
basically be good at your job whatever
that job is as a politician as a leader
uh even as a soldier somebody that I
again I think thisa said this to me or
said something like this to a group of
us that there's nothing wrong with being
paranoid it's about educating your
paranoia and knowing what to be afraid
of if you're afraid of everything you
know you're basically overwhelmed but if
you T start educating yourself as far as
specifically what to prioritize as far
as what to worry about in know war zone
uh working protecting somebody you know
you're not looking at everybody's faces
you're just looking at their hands
because that's what's going to kill you
you know that's an example of focalizing
you know what you're paranoid and what
you're afraid of so looking at the hands
that's the specific to the particular
situation but also figuring out which
situations to avoid in which it's okay I
mean that's like ultimately one of the
biggest things you could do yeah route
analysis you know you you have to get to
the airport and you send off two cars to
analyze two routes and then on the Fly
you just
change trajectory to to create
Randomness and unpredictability and have
that as a a security feature um having
to a convoy of four vehicles separate
into two convoys and show up different
in different parts to again make it hard
for people to guess where you're going
to be putting out false information as
far as who where's going to be who's
going to be and that type of stuff it's
kind of amazing how many assassination
attempts Hitler avoided just by having a
pretty strict schedule and being a
little bit off in terms of timing just
like showing up 15 minutes late or to a
slightly different location we were
going through training uh specifically
around this type of stuff and and
operational training basically showing
us how to ambush people you know when I
started making a group for myself as far
as counter Ambush you know this cat
teams that that they call them up here
in the US basically a group of a group
to respond to a high violent uh uh
Ambush first off the first rule if if
you find yourself in an ambush it wasn't
a successful Ambush because if you if
you find yourself in it you're alive you
know yes um but if you want to create an
amazing counter Ambush team you have to
you know you have to make them ambushers
and with ambushing you figure out where
all the uh opportunities of not only
successfully doing what you need to do
are in your favor but also to escape
with your life you know we're not uh
we're not going to be received by virgin
in heaven we're not that's not the type
of mentality that we had down there but
uh we start learning about some of these
things and also seeing you know cartel
forces apply some of these Ambush
tactics to the military or federal
forces what is an ambush what are we
talking about so that's a surprise
attack with an asymmet power kind of
thing there's a contingency somewhere
moving towards a place that you control
and own where you have the advantages
where they can't see you but you can see
you can see them where they can't
predict you but you can predict where
they're going to pass go through you
know places where they forcibly have to
pass uh places where they're predictable
places where you can not only predict
but also have a plan for yourself to
escape and exit uh that place so how do
you train for counter Ambush you turn
into a like a perfect ambusher that's
how you train for counter Ambush also
always trying to make sure you have more
information about other people you have
the element of surprise all of those
things and Masashi would say know your
enemy know his sword you know basically
that you know it's simplified but
there's a lot of enemies around you in
in Mexico there's a lot of uncertainty
right cuz it's well I guess that's what
R analysis is yeah you you prepare for
the probable yeah and if the impossible
happens you're halfway out of it
hopefully you know and if you find
yourself in an ambush it wasn't a
successful one uh but you you you uh as
far as our training and the kind of the
mindset my experience with it you the
adversary IAL thinking part of it has
always been a very powerful one I think
one that a lot of people ignore kind of
like leave to the
Wayside uh specifically in all conflicts
out there there's a tendency for a
military force or a conventional force
of any kind to be trained in a way where
they dehumanize the enemy yeah and when
that happens you become blind to the
enemy's story it's his capability his
story his
ability uh you if you treat the other
side like an inhuman monster
it's hard to take notes you know so
there some part of this is a radical
empathy for for for the quote unquote
enemy at least for me personally uh I
wasn't I wasn't one of the guys that
would you grab him beat the shit out of
him and put him in the back of a van
just tie him up and gag him so you able
to see them as human I learned that from
my mother you know she said uh uh
nobody's against you at they for
themselves learn this and you will you
will make friends of enemies she she
said that when I graduated and I carried
that with me throughout my whole career
but isn't there then a pain of killing
another human always but there isn't
again I apologize to go back to Ukraine
is my only experience of this kind of
harshness it and it is a powerful
experience there's a dehumanization that
happens I suppose this is common in war
there's something like a video game
aspect where people are almost having
fun there's a humor and I think
underneath that the prerequisite is to
see the in the same way you see the
anime when you play Call of Duty you
don't really think you think of them as
NPCs the bad guys the Russians are
called
Orcs in Ukraine I mean there's all kinds
of other names for us it with mugrosos
you know malandro mugrosos like dirty
people you know there's always something
over time those are just words but over
time it gathers a kind of um like a
meaning to it that's more than just the
words Orcs they're less than human yeah
they're dirty they're too dumb to
understand the evil they're doing or
what whatever the it's useful it's
useful it's part of the program but like
that's what and I've talked to soldiers
and some of them do have stories of
momentarily remembering that there's a
human on the other side um I talked to
one
woman who's this really badass Soldier
and she saw this Really Brave soldier on
the other side do something
that was almost stupid How brave it was
and then she was trying to shoot him and
you she missed and she said she couldn't
sleep the night after
thinking why did she miss why did she
miss and then she thought she missed
because he was a hero and she had this
brief realization that there was a hero
on the other side like the other side is
Heroes yeah and then but then that
quickly disappear appeared yeah again
but she at this moment there's a human
being that rises to to defend his Nation
to defend his people and he could be
heroic on the other side there are
things that we're trained to depress or
conceal or hide and kill in us when
you're trained for something like that
or when you're in Conflict Zone like
that and you hear the narrative
constantly being blured out that the
other side is a orc or you know whatever
whatever word you want to use but you
know we live in a day and age when you
can see uh Americans going off to Japan
and shaking hands with some of their
former enemies I mean some of us have
seen that and how things change I think
years from now a lot of the the stuff
that we are taking right now is of the
utmost importance won't matter anymore
the question is how many years question
that's a question I asked of a lot of
people in that part of the world ah and
a lot of them currently they're also
self-aware about it they're like I'm not
sure I trust my current feelings yeah
but the current feelings are
generational yeah like for decades I
will not just hate the the leadership I
will hate all Russian people I can't
understand that on my side of my life
experience because you know our war has
been an internal War you know amongst
our people and monst our houses why that
is the propaganda it there's also a deep
grain of truth that there is a a Oneness
to the people of that region yeah but
people will get very offended at that
idea because right now it's a very
strong nationalist borders but there is
a cultural
history that connects people I mean in
some deep sense we're all connected we
all come from Western Africa and then
all came from fish before then depending
on your uh view of of Life of history of
life on Earth um but there is a Oneness
to us and often you forget that in
Conflict I had an experience working
there was a friend of mine who took the
other
path uh and went to work for some of
these criminal groups I was operational
and I
was uh we saw a bunch of people in a gas
station
parked back then the main you know MOS
operandi that they had was that they
would uh impersonate or dress up as
federal police and that's how they would
move around the
city we saw these Suburbans in a in a in
a gas station and some of the guys were
carrying our AK-47s you know and that's
that's not a standard issue
firearm
so you know we saw that and I got off on
foot and walked by to try and get a you
know better sense of what was going on I
took everything off uh wearing jeans and
a
t-shirt and uh I got a whistle from one
of the guys uh that was there and my
name was
called it was one of the guys that I
grew up
with redhead kid look like El Canelo you
know uh there's redheads in Mexico by
the way I think it's probably some of
the Irish that uh that uh betrayed the
American side during the last Mexico
American war that stayed down there I
had a bunch of kids so it's probably
from there love was stronger than
anything else I think this redhead kid
when I say kid I mean he was my age and
now to my eyes he's always going to be
younger
now he was a
told my name said hey G that key cat I'm
like what are you doing here it's like
ah shit I'm just you know going home and
she look going and get a taxi like oh
okay walk as he walks over it's like he
has a plate carrier with AK round uh
magazines on his chest uh AK without a
stock on it just carrying in his hand he
comes over and he hugs me I could feel
the uh the magazines on my chest you
mind you I have a gun on me you know
tucked and uh Nextel is buzzing in my
back
pocket as people are trying to you know
figure out what the fuck's going on um
he asked me small talk shit like hey
it's like what are you doing like what
what do you work at and I like just
looking for a job you know used to work
at a video
store so he's like ah haven't seen you
in a
while uh how's so and so of your family
good and how's so and so of your family
good it's like yeah they like this is an
interesting job you have he's like yeah
it's pretty good they pay us well you
get a you know you get a car you know
there's money and nobody fucks with you
you get respect I was like that's
awesome you know and if you want you can
get you in you know if you if you want
that it's like oh that's I'm too much of
a coward for that I told him
conversation like any other uh between
two friends he hugs me before I go some
something to him I can't remember what
and he says Hey in my ear I know what
you do for a living it's not a safe
place for you to be in and I walk
off a few moments later the Army showed
up and
you could feel the amount of rounds
going off from two blocks away
we came back with our guys and it was it
was
over so he didn't survive
that I I looked through the bodies and
the cars that were left you know there
was bodies all over the place people
left
there it was a
mess I spent like an hour looking for
him the only way I could recognize him
was his hair
um I stayed with his
body all night there's
a there's a bridge in Tijuana that goes
over the river in a place called L Mesa
and that's where the forensic offices
were his body was taken there and I
stayed with his body until it was
released I told his family about
it because I knew them and that aspect
of you know us versus them or they
they're the enemy and Sh like that you
my
mom told me those words nobody's against
you they're just for themselves so don't
make the mistake of dehumanizing anybody
and those roles could have been easily
reversed I could have been shot in the
face there that aspect the conflict
brings where they say bad guys good guys
you know uh Heroes villains you know
how there's an innocence to that that uh
you goes away is your mom still with us
no almost 3 weeks before I decided to
quit she passed away did that have a
role to play a major
one after I got done on the protection
detail with the
governor uh like everything down there
again the whole cycle you know he got
his turn so when he went
away uh you know politics change and
down there basically if you're a c a
gubernatorial candidate you have either
a friend a friend of a friend or a
family member be the head bodyguard guy
and the guy that won the elections had
his head bodyguard guy already there so
all of us were sent back to whatever we
came from so I went back to work on the
streets uh I was uh back on the
operations group I was working with the
subdirector uh directly with him
basically back on the ground
doing the stuff that I was doing before
that job we were moving away from the
successes that had been had by people
like Lola when they were in charge of
that whole process the people that I
used to work with some of the only
successes in that counter push against
cartels in in Mexico and you can kind of
like it's documented you can read about
it out there a bunch of people wrote
papers on it some of the only successes
were had by LOL and places where he had
leadership he not only pacified Tijuana
uh he also did the same in harez he was
sent uh to be the lece Chief and wates
too but politics change and you know
Heroes become villains um a lot of
people started calling him a villain
because of his uh unorthodox approach
and human rights violations and all of
this type of stuff kind of come to the
Forefront and people forgot you know
people forgot what it took to get
Tijuana off the most dangerous city list
on the
planet and uh people were vilified uh
people like him uh and uh the police
force that I was a part of started
getting
compromised a lot of the things that
were put forth to try and keep us honest
there was a program they had these
centers called the
c3s basically you would go there every
every year you would get your financials
checked you would get a physical
psychological evaluation you would get a
polygraph exam done on you all the works
to try and see if you were somebody
doing something wrong and all of that
was cancelled because it violated your
human rights if you get uh fired from a
job because of a failed polygraph exam
because that was not a actual admissible
way of firing somebody so all of a
sudden you had people that were known
cartel compromised people that were
fired five six years ago showing back up
to back up to work with their back paid
and
everything so this is wow so this
started happening and it quickly quickly
realized that it was going to be hard to
stay there um I was uh driving home from
work and I got a call from my
brother that uh my mom had been going
through some health
issues that uh had turned into
psychiatric issues so we were basically
taking turns trying to take care of her
you know locking the door so she
wouldn't wander off and stuff like that
so Not only was I dealing with the job
on the street but I was dealing with
that and also I had a a 2-year-old and a
marriage that
was difficult uh that that time so I was
trying to figure all these things out
made more difficult by your
job yeah it's not a financially secure
job you know and the pressures that it
has and the odd hours and all that made
it really hard
and then all of a sudden um my brother
calls me and and tells me that let's go
to the hospital my mom something
happened to my
mom it wasn't my turn to to watch her so
I I felt pretty shitty about that I got
to the hospital
and the doctors you know came out and
told us that she was gone it was a a
massive heart attack she she had a
pacemaker by then so she was
gone she was in her 60s so you know we
kind of expected something but not you
know that that was
like hard for me she was my Center she
was going to be the one that I would ask
for advice as far as work you know if I
should leave it or not the ground was
removed from under you there was nobody
there was yeah there's nothing
underneath me I get three days off work
that's what they gave me
and
uh I'm trying to grieve as I go back to
work dark shit crosses my mind as I'm
going through that process of trying to
figure things out um like dark shit like
suicide that dark shit yeah so it was
very low for you very it hit very hard
yeah I wasn't allowed to grieve
basically and I wasn't allowed to grieve
for for a few years uh for different
reasons I went back to work and other
people also you yourself were not
allowing yourself to grieve is it like
there's there was other people with me
that didn't allow me to grieve you know
um I went to work got called into the
office and I was basically told that I
was going to be
reassigned after I just what I just went
through uh the reassignment was going to
be something that I saw
as
unacceptable it was uh the people in
charge at that point were were obviously
corrupted and what I got from their
conversation was that they wanted us to
work for a specific
side and I knew that that was the time
to go
I asked for a license basically license
is uh unpaid absence from work basically
leave of absence I think it's what you
call it up here which by law is allowed
and I was denied for no
reason
so I'm invested in this job you know uh
there's I have a I have a I have a good
salary a salary and I have a category in
there so you the by the level of uh time
you spend in there you get a category so
I was a pretty high category
agent I had all this training and again
training that would be useless in the
private sector well in the in the public
sector in Mexico I couldn't change from
one corporate to another can go to work
for another police institution
so I took a deep breath and
uh I resigned I went to the office I
said I need to resign they said what I
need to resign some of the people in the
office that knew me from a long time
were like what's wrong with you they
thought I was having a mental
breakdown and it all over the all the
paperwork uh took a big trash bag put
all my stuff in there uh blate armor
tear gas G grenades uh gas mask uh
satellite radio um MP5 magazines uh an
MP5 uh submachine gun GLOCK GLOCK
magazines all of it
helmet and I put it in the AR I handed
it over in the Armory
uh and
I I
left I made some phone calls um I was
married to uh an American and my
daughter's
American I never envisioned myself
coming to the United States do that
process for myself you know so I was
invested in that job I thought I was
going to die or retire from
that and
uh it quickly became like an issue
because everybody wondering why I left
the job so abruptly so there were some
threats made when I left by people
inside the office and I probably you
know it's Anonymous yet so there's
significant pressure not to leave it's
hard to leave this kind of job yeah the
system makes it difficult to leave the
individuals to the degree they might be
corrupted really don't want you to leave
there's no support yeah there's no
support and there probably the opposite
of support yeah almost like implied or
or explicit or implicit threats yeah
luckily I had developed some friendships
in the United States for some with some
of the people that I used to work with
and cross Trin with and uh some
friendships that I developed with people
that I would uh just talk to and make
friends with State Side one of them was
uh is a Navy SEAL reservist who uh name
is Dan Stanfield and his wife Kelly they
open the doors of their house to me and
my kid and my wife at that
time as I seek to basically look for the
American
dream um I crossed the border
with my kid and uh nobody knew anything
you know I had I didn't tell anybody
just you know my wife and uh and I was
off uh when I came to the states I
already kind of dabbled in the whole
training field and and showing some of
my experience to people so I had at
least a seed of that out there people
knew me for that um but all of a sudden
I was uh
in the middle of an avocado
Orchard uh in the middle of
California and everything's quiet and
there's no more radios going off all
over the night there's no more three
three cell phones on the counter there's
no guns there's no rifles there's
no um 80 people calling to to to calling
to see what's going on there's nothing
it's just quiet
and it's during the time when uh Trump
got elected so the immigration process
that usually would take I I had most
things going for me an immigration
process that would take at the most the
year took two years so it
was it was not a it's not an easy
process to not only come to the US but
uh you know come to the US with uh with
that pressure kind of underlying
pressure as far as being an immigrant at
that time here and then your own
personal psychological the PTSD of of
going from a war zone to a uh avocado
Orchard the word PTSD and TBI and all of
these things I did not I didn't know any
of them uh it was through people that I
got to meet uh in the training field uh
that were you know Marines uh seals uh
marock guys those types of people that
started giving words to some of the
things that I felt which I didn't really
know you know uh we would treat uh
post-traumatic stress with alcohol and
vacation time yeah botle mcal you know
when you see the bottom of it you're
troubles are gone cured yeah
immediately I was I was an alcoholic as
well as all the other stuff I was I was
drinking myself to sleep every every
third night uh my marriage obviously was
failing you know it was it wasn't easy
for her you know she she was Brave and
she did what she could and and I I
totally respect and understand her
process with it
but you know when when it's quiet that's
when it hits you that's what I think
that's what a lot of people experience
when they come back from a conflict Zone
you know the
uh everything that was life and death
everything that mattered all the noise
all the chaos all the people that are
around you that would die for you kill
for you you would kill for them uh all
these millions of dollars worth of
equipment and stuff like that you were
responsible for now are all gone and
it's just you uh walking into a Circle K
and buying three cans of Fosters to
drink yourself to sleep yeah you write
on your patreon
brilliantly about
BTSD about uh the cost of things you've
done and seen
quote when it's over and we are far from
that chaos and noise of death being
close and life being
real that is when some of us remember in
the quiet nights in a field in Tennessee
looking at fireflies walking through a
fair holding hands with a lover asking
you what's wrong at your kids's birthday
party leave early to avoid the ending of
a
celebration that is what the quiet means
to some of us so that's speaking to that
silence the quiet um how do you live
with and Thrive with this newly learned
term of PTSD if anything I would
recommend people that that have any of
these issues to go to places where other
people have their issues so you can it's
not a competition but you get to see the
scope of problems in the world and you
sometimes feel kind of lucky as far as
your own like it humbles you yeah and
makes you appreciate of all the
different kinds of struggles that people
go yeah I mean I went through some
horrible shit but there's some people
there that went through other more
horrible shit or stuff that I I I don't
think I could have survived when I went
through that process of figuring things
out you know the first thing that
glaringly pointed out or stuck out to me
was my inability
to process things like there was a big
pause button there a giant one
everything was on pause my grieving not
only my mom but my brother
so I had a pause button on me since I
were 13
basically uh then I got to
bury many of my
friends inform their wives or
girlfriends of what
happened and that all again was paused
because I wasn't uh allowed to process
you I spent years without going on
vacation because I was a
workaholic and uh I found at the core of
my issues uh alcohol a giant pause
button in the form of alcohol basically
I I'll drink my problems away or
specifically I would it's like uh if you
have a mess in your house you just put a
big tarp over it you know to cover it up
and alcohol was at for
me and it festered more and more as I
not only went through the process of
learning about pcsd going through
therapy but refusing to let that go you
know it's like going through therapy and
seeing what other people's problems were
and I don't want to you know this is the
only thing I have I'm not you know I'm
not hurting anybody with it you know why
why am I why do I need to get rid of
that uh by this point I was traveling
across the country and training people
and uh showing some of the experiences
that I had to other people speaking
being on podcast and having
conversations like the one I'm at with
you so speaking to the skills that
you've developed and in a way basically
re reliving and reopening a bunch of
shit for myself every time I do it um so
I was I was getting triggered and the
way I would manage that was I would
drink you know at the end of the night
after a a weekend class somewhere when I
talk about the fireflies and a field in
Tennessee it was a moment where I was
forcing myself to try and be sober and
we did this medical class out in uh out
in the hills in Tennessee it beautiful
green Place uh beautiful family there
that that hosted us and it's the first
time I ever saw flow flies so I was like
thought I was having a hallogen
experience when I say why is why are why
why is the dust glowing you know is what
I thought a friend of mine is a a
veteran he ran off to the woods and
grabbed one and brought it to me and
showed it to me I was like holy shit
that's what is that's a
firefly wow how do they glow I don't
know and he's crushing it in his hand
and say on and I that you know brought
me back immediately to holy shit you
know uh it kind of like I was off
somewhere and I was back and I had to go
drink I went through that process of
like going off it getting on and going
off getting off and my
marriage
separated and that was a another end of
the world aspect to to to everything you
know you know I lost my mother I lost
uh the job and then the marriage uh
failed and it was on
me
I basically went somewhere and did a
stock of everything that was going
on and made a decision to stop
drinking yeah had a had some bad
relationships
after and I just came to a place where I
need to stop drinking you've gotten de
points so low was this a decision you
arrived at by yourself was there some
inspiration or was it just the point is
so low lost so much it was the start of
Co so uh this is recent this probably
two I'm going to I'm going to I'm going
to have two years Sil in December so
when you talk to Rogan the first time
you're still struggling with this demon
yeah I was in and out of the car
basically is what I I would say you know
I was in and out of and then trying to
get rid of it that must be a super
stressful experience talking to Joe
Rogan the first time did you drink that
night you remember the second time I was
there I would I I went somewhere got
shit face it was it was stressful not
not for any other reason than I felt the
responsibility to the people that
couldn't speak about it so that's a
pressure it was a start of Co and things
got it started getting shut down and
slowed
down my dad got really sick and almost
died we had to set up like some Jason
Bourne level shit at his at at my
brother's place we we he was in Mexico
you know so we had to bribe a guy to get
us an oxygen tank and I had to Jimmy rig
a respirator and it was it was it was it
was some shit
but my dad was
like you know he survived it you know
everybody the doctor were like say
goodbye and the the my dad was like yeah
say goodbye to him you
know okay so your dad's a gangster I got
it tough cut he did he did some gangster
shit that
day but uh on my end I was being
isolated basically his Co is everybody's
slowing down no more classes no more
excuses to go out there and drink and no
more social soci iing so social drinking
turned into alone drinking more and more
and
more I bought a bottle of
Jin because uh I was I was down in
Mexico taking care of my dad and uh they
closed down beer production in Mexico so
beer went away and beer was a way I kind
of Managed IT you know it's not hard
alcohol it's just beer so you know but
that went away so it was just hard ALC
that was was available down there I uh
one night alone at the uh at the house
my dad's house I uh I drank a bottle of
Jin a whole bottle of
Jin I almost
died and after that you
know some people started noticing that
uh that I was isolating more and more
and it was kind of eating away at
me I was in a Rel relationship at that
point when I I started seeing everything
just kind of fall apart around
me
and I I drank half of a glass of uh
wine and it made me sick to my like
internally in my
mind and uh my kid said uh to me and I
don't know nobody coached her nobody
said anything to her she's she's pretty
intuitive kid
said I don't drink anymore
dad out of nowhere in the middle of the
night uh and I
stopped I stopped that I stopped that
night I remember waking up at 3:00 in
the morning uh and taking a cooler that
I had and just dumping all the beers in
it and chucking them in the garbage and
with a knife poking each of them to not
you know be tempted to go back for them
and then the second day I went around
and started finding the hides that I had
because I had some you know hides yeah
and
uh and then I went somewhere and locked
myself in
for two
weeks uh I had
the the withdrawals uh the clearest
nightmares that I've ever had in my life
for two 3 weeks I went somewhere
where I want to keep them private but I
went somewhere
where they offered a place for me and uh
when I asked them about it they it's a
community I gave them some money for
their school as a donation gave them
like a few a few thousand dollars I yeah
sure come you know you can you can go
through this process here cool as fuck
people mhm the first thing I they did
when I got there is they stood me up in
front of everybody to thank me for the
donation and then told everybody that I
was an alcoholic and if anybody saw me
drinking I was to be kicked out of there
immediately and uh I felt
horrible um
so that's that was where I started is
that Temptation still
there there was a moment when it
was uh
and uh some uh therapy Circle
there's a there's a rodeo clown friend
of mine who his body's his spine is
basically fused together you know type
of
guy uh we've been friends and enemies
and friends again you know in during the
our therapy uh Circle sessions Oho like
there's an intimacy there yeah um he
didn't know anything about
me uh one time when we was telling our
story he stood up and told his story and
then he heard mine and and then he was
pissed off at me and didn't want to talk
to me for a while and then later he told
me that it was because uh he saw what I
did with my experience and how much of a
difference that he perceived that I was
making with it and he felt uh jealous
that he couldn't do the same with his
experience because he was just a broken
ex rodeo clown he told me when I was
going through the process like hey
you're you're a internet celebrity
person you know you're you're known
uh aren't you worried about people
finding out that you're that you're
recovering drunk and I said yeah it's
fucking scary as shit if people find out
that I am going through this process
it's scary that you know the critique
you know I already get a lot of shit for
being a ex police officer in Mexico and
all that uh all the negativity that
comes from
that and he said don't
be you know that you can't pickpocket a
naked man so just get naked and what
does that mean write about it post it
online
you never know somebody somebody out
there might get inspired to do their own
kind of
process so I started posting
about cowardly in a way because I wanted
to make other people keep me on the path
you know but in other ways you know uh
desperation you know I don't I don't I
don't want to drink anymore I don't want
to go back to that on that uh path which
I know leads directly to a bad death I'm
not afraid of death I just want a good
one I don't want a bad one I think that
was going to lead me to a bad
death I started writing about it and
sharing it online you know through my uh
fever dreams post and just uh being
humorous about it online and getting a
lot of hate on one side you know having
a few people and companies that I work
with kind of step back and seeing this
guy has some issues to having other
people kind of make fun of or make light
of that uh weakness portrayed Al getting
hate getting criticism because here you
are a counter narcotics police officer
there's no has a drinking problem so is
that like supposed to be what like flaws
revealed weakness uh or a perception of
alpha in the US I guess that some people
have you know you were supposed to be
strong and here you are I mean I'm not
I'm not Jaco wilnick I'm not David
Goggins you know I I'll I wake up at
10:00 in the morning sometimes and I'll
have cornflakes with my 8-year-old you
know um I like days off I I used to wake
up at 3:30 in the morning every day to
to to review what happened during the
night and then go off for a jog and then
the gym and just be ready to be able to
murder somebody with my hands if I had
to but that is I couldn't maintain that
during the whole process of getting out
of it now leaving
alcohol I remember just being honest
with it and just seeing the two sides of
it you know Joe told me never read the
comment section right which is a
beautiful it's a beautiful piece of
advice but
uh it they get you you sometimes when
you talk about some of these things
openly and some of the comments were
positive and I've been seeing people
comment sending me messages and meeting
people on the road that are 5 months
in uh 10 months uh some people that have
been on that uh wagon for way longer
than I have um and
uh there's it's what's cool when you
meet people that are superum
or perform and are take an extreme
ownership of things and are just amazing
people that are you know thriving out
there it's inspirational I see some of
these people and I'm like holy shit I
need to figure out how to get to some
semblance of that but I'm not that you
know I've been through the ring
I fucked up a shit ton of times you know
my nose is a example of that I few
missing teeth but in a way I think all
of that is part of the process that not
a lot of people want to talk about you
know independently of the experience I
got down there and some of the things
that I show and talk about and some of
the advocacy I do related to women like
her that are you know trying to look for
a better life and trying to find their
missing kids uh training people to not
get into those
situations uh but also showcasing the
fact that people that go through some of
these processes have a journey to go
through you know uh I just came into
your studio with a duffel bag straight
from the airport and I'm going to leave
uh early tomorrow morning to somewhere
else I've been on the road
for almost I think 5 years
non-stop I go back to a specific place
every week to see my kid for 2 3 days
and then I'm back out you know R you
know some people like are you running
like are you worried afraid about
something no but I am you know on this
weird path I guess trying to look for
something that I think I've been
missing as far as my afterlife of A Sort
you know coming out think that is are
you looking for some kind of deeper
understanding of humanity like from the
specific experiences you had to get some
deeper understanding of what what the
hell we're all doing here I meet people
every weekend with different stories uh
you know people come to some of my
classes you know I show them how to
weaponize the environment how to arm
themselves how to not get abducted I
meet people that have gone through those
experience and then they're basically
trying to work through some of the their
own issues by going through the training
like
that I get to meet people that are you
know people that I've only seen online
you know or seen in videos I I remember
meeting Royce Gracie in uh Harvard City
I heard of that guy he's a pretty
interesting character I remember seeing
him in a boot like VHS video and I told
them about it uh we were doing a class
uh out at uh uh Emerson knives it's a
it's a it's a Knife Company but the but
the Mr Emerson also has like a Jiu-Jitsu
gym there where Royce straightens out of
that's his uh that's his
space and you know they're teaching how
to defend against somebody trying to
stab you and I'm showing them all the
ways you can get around that and
fabricate and improvise and smuggle
things basically the the adversarial
side of that which is that's what I'm
known for the psychology and kind of the
the ways that people do that
and I remember him seeing some of the
stuff that I was doing and just being
like where you from Mexico me makes
sense you know somebody from Brazil you
know tipping the hat to somebody from
Mexico as far as him uh seeing the
violence and some of the uh the
mentality behind it so for people who
don't know ho Gracie is the legendary
martial artist that probably introduced
Brazilian jiu-jitsu to the American AUD
to the world through the process of UFC
and showing the effectiveness of it in
um in practice that a little skinny guy
can defeat a big aggressive guy so an
anakonda as a small Anaconda walking
into that uh ring with his family behind
wearing pajamas wearing pajamas and I
was like what is this guy wearing
pajamas for and then he would strangle
people with those pajamas uh I remember
seeing that and just having it I think
probably what a generation before had
with Bruce Lee I guess our my generation
was Roy walking into that uh walking
into that octagon and changing you know
paradigms seeing him in that gym um it's
also have a gun owner and shooter which
is interesting you know having a
beinging somebody like him who is you
know well- versed with the his hands
also be a man that has gone into the
realm of being well versed with with
Weaponry which is an aspect of of
martial arts and uh the martial way of
of thinking that you know some people
kind
of the purist will stick with one side
of it but he's he's obviously a warrior
in a lot of ways so just as a small
tangent so you're somebody that you
don't just look at unarmed combat you
look at the full spectrum of the the
chaos of combat that's outside of the
realm of Jiu-Jitsu and even just mix
martial arts unarmed armed with knives
and Beyond was was his mind open to the
the Fuller spectrum of violence yeah I
mean he was he was in the middle of this
class that we were doing where people
were basically focusing on both Ernest
Emerson who's uh famous for his knives
he's has a Knife Company he done knives
for NASA you know not only that but he's
also a very Avid martial art artist he
trained with a lot of Filipino martial
arts related to knives and stuff like
that but a different mindset you know a
defensive mindset trying to train people
how to defend against that and you have
Roy who's uh he's from Brazil I mean he
has some Street in him that's something
that you know those guys
those we say in
Mexico uh seeing the ways he would uh he
he stepped in there and and provided
some encouragement to the people there
as far as uh you know how people
sometimes focus on the uh
this is a system and this is a way but
there's other ways out there that might
negate or defeat the ways that you are
con concentrating on you know so kind of
get out of that bubble my whole kind of
speciality or what I focus on is mindset
and figuring out the software that some
of these people gain and gather
from if I need to arm myself you know
the easiest thing to manufacture in most
plac is a pointed object so I can take
that Crystal big pen that you're writing
on that uh Notepad with and uh using the
friction from the carpet I can turn it
into a hyperic needle that you can then
poke into somebody's neck what's the
process of doing that I can do it right
now if you want to no but can you can
you use your words for The Listener and
also cuz I'm terrified no I I I could
basically you can take the Fric the the
the Heat and friction created from this
carpet yes you can grab that pen in of
itself it will pierce flesh but it will
slow itself down because it has a few uh
angles on to on the tip oh you want to
wear down the angles so if you take that
tip off and you grabb it and grind it on
an angle on the carpet the heat will
actually turn it into a hypodermic
needle if you know what you're doing
hypodermic meaning like it's it
smoothens the entry it'll make a point
in an angle that will guide it its way
in through your flesh so you can
actually go through a torso with that if
you know what you're doing as a small
tangent you also gave me a
present could be one of the most epic
presents I've ever received you you give
it to Rogan uh can you explain what I'm
holding in my hands there's a guy online
coffin Tramp is his uh moniker uh it is
a G10 Rod G10 is a very strong material
basically capable they a lot of people
make actually G10 knives which are
basically non-magnetic non- feris
objects that can be utilized as a
stabbing Implement um the core of it
isn't uh isn't an actual pencil core
it's a G10 core and it's uh encased in
uh Oak heart Oak so that is capable
again of stabbing through a torso now
the the guy that made that uh is an
artisen you know it makes that it looks
like a pencil it's concealed in it in in
the nature of the object itself but that
small object is capable of being
introduced into a chest
cavity um you know uh all it takes is
about the half of your thumb or the
length of your thumb to stab into your
chest cavity and now your pericardium is
pierced and it's being full with fill of
blood or your whole heart is pierced
then you have a few minutes to live if
you're at a standing heart rate so this
is uh this this has the effectiveness of
a knife essentially it has the
effectiveness of a shank or or or or an
ice pick you know it's not going to cut
but it's going to make a hole where not
shouldn't be here the the pen is
literally mightier sword yeah well it's
uh
it's this is really epic from like a
persp perspective of an
academic this this is this is a symbol
of both intelligence and violence I love
it and also the the current state of
affairs where people need to arm
themselves with things that are
concealed as far as their purpose in a
place where in a country or in a society
that limits their ability to arm
themselves so if you're going to a safe
place you're going to a place where no
weapons allowed which means a rich a
Target Rich environment if you're a
predator uh that's a sign of rebellion
let this be a a signal of everyone
should be terrified when you're around
me cuz even a pencil can murder you and
I intend to use this yeah nobody nobody
owns life but anybody that can hold a
frying pan owns death is a quote that I
heard once which is a beautiful one I'm
looking at you if anyone betrays me this
is the way to go can you given all you
experience in all the different ways and
you think about martial arts and
violence in Mexico and in the in the
world speaking of
hoist what is your approach to conflict
uh like a like a street fight what
advice would you give people in the full
spectrum of what a street altercation
might entail what is the best way to
approach it I think before you get there
you have to prepare you know so I one of
the first things I tell people is uh if
you don't have a basic t c training
class behind you you should reanalyze
your your life and your ability to
prepare dple C basically how to stop
somebody from bleeding out or dying from
a stab wound gunshot wound or any of
those types of wounds uh or an amputated
leg during an IID scenario anything you
would see in a Boston Marathon Marathon
type event or a Vegas shooting event
where people are getting shot stabbed
cut so understand how to help people how
to help yourself post you're no good you
don't want to be a you don't want to be
a detriment to the situation you want to
be an asset so build yourself up an
asset for in a situation like that
because you might be doing that on
yourself or on somebody else and also it
helps you understand uh what situations
are going to result in a lot of in a
difficult situation to deal with
afterwards yeah it also teaches you what
to stab and what to shoot if you're
thinking about it in a full and on all
the dimensions of it you know you know
there's there's all weapon all knowledge
can be weaponized and I think that's the
approach all people should should kind
of figure out for themselves when they
start getting ready or if they want to
take the responsibility of their own
safety in their hands so in a
self-defense situation there's a lot of
questions here but what what does one
stab there's the kateed arteries which
are used commonly in Jiu-Jitsu with
something to choke because they feed a
computer you know so there's a lot of
blood flowing through that required for
the successful operation of the computer
and not a lot of stuff is guarding the
outside world from your karate AR that's
a really weird design by the way it is
not a smart one doesn't even make sense
because with mammals they bite each
other's neck like why can't you have
more protection CU this the only like us
humans don't use their mouth to kill
each other but most mammals most
predators do it's like why the hell
don't we protect this we do have a
defensive mechanism and you you see it
sometimes when people are ambushed and
people try to open up each other's necks
from behind if you push somebody's neck
forward the kateed will actually lower
themselves and be encased in more flesh
and muscle if you pull ah head back not
so much so that's a way that at least I
think the evolutionary we' have a
defensive mechanism for that uh there's
a few videos out there of people's
getting their neck sewn back shut after
somebody pushed their head forward to
try and slice their necks and they
survived you know um so this is a viable
Target uh the heart is another one um
interesting about the thing about the
hearten people get alarmed when I talk
about this and show it in
classes uh again a lot of the classes I
do are for orientation and to for people
to recognize that behavior so a lot of
law enforcement comes to some of these
classes oh that's horrible that's how
somebody will kill somebody yeah this is
how people that know their thing their
shit will try and approach somebody and
stab you to death This Is How They would
do it uh there's a tendency to view what
we see in John Wick or view what we see
in in uh this martial arts Community
where they're you know slicing and
dicing people different myriads of ways
a lot of that is based on dueling based
cultures like the Filipino martial arts
or some of the uh Italian martial arts
out there where somebody's facing off
with somebody else with a similar weapon
and where both of us are agreeing to
basically get into a stabbing
competition that would make sense in
that scenario in that context but I've
never seen a lot of people actually get
into these uh one-on-one knife
altercations um
what we see now in a modern context when
it talks about
Weaponry uh is an ambush counter Ambush
based uh scenario where somebody pulls
out a knife during a a grappling
situation on the street or when somebody
turns a striking exchange of punch
punches into pull pulling out a cheap
gas station knife or a pen or uh a rock
from the ground or a handgun most modern
combatives when it comes to Weaponry
should be kind of based on the whole
aspect of Ambush and counter Ambush
there's a lot of people showing uh
valuable kind of material and coursework
on this out there um my whole approach
and my specific kind of Realm is in the
aspect of how people go from the process
of learning some of these things from
experiential stuff people that grow up
in rural rural places grow up on pig
farms that actually get the experiences
of processing a pig for example or
processing an animal those people will
have more skills Hunters those people
will have more skills with a knife if
they pick it up as a weapon then most of
the martial artists that I've seen kind
of approach some of these uh classes
where I go and have a a simulated torso
in the form of a pig hanging in a room
somewhere some of that has to do with
just
the the familiarity and the comfort of
just like the biology of a living
organism like that you if you cut off
certain things if you cut a certain
thing like it's just it's just a meat
vehicle the same thing you know the
medical training should come first you
know or if you don't have that be hunter
or go to a a Butchery class that will
teach you more about how to use a knife
on somebody else than anything you know
that'll that'll give you the experience
of Flesh uh most people you know I do
this example every now and then where I
have people bring in a a tactical knife
and they'll bring in a butter knife and
I ask them which will go through a torso
we have a pig there so it simulates a
torso pretty closely most people will
say n that butter knife's not going to
go through and it does you know it does
go go through it's uh thin enough strong
enough sturdy enough that it'll go
through um kitchen knife a cheap one
that cost 89 cents at uh at a Walmart
and a expensive $400 one you know and
the the cheap one will outperform the
expensive one the tip will snap off uh
during some of it yeah I have to say
that just as a small uh tangent I went
to a
farm and um just seeing the butchering
of me meat and so on uh and the
processing of meat and pigs and
cows oo that's uncomfortable yeah but I
think it also it's honest and and raw
and like that's something that probably
everyone should experience
regularly um CU it it's also humbling to
to to remind you like when I
um I had a dog Homer he in Newland that
was I was very close with and uh we lost
them and I I just remember I carried him
he's like 200 something pounds had to I
had to carry him I had to put him to
sleep and like one of the biggest
realizations is like oh this is just a
this is just a biological thing yeah
it's just and then to to realize that
this is just meat this is not and you
can cut it and then you if you bleed you
all of a sudden the life can disappear
from you and it's all gone it's like
holy shit there's this meat vehicle that
some people have referred to as Lex
it's I'm just a few stabbings away from
leaving yeah from leaving goodbye
there's a soul that just flies away yeah
it used to be that we had to hang around
you know people would come back from
Battle and we would hear things next to
the campfire as far as oh you stabbed
somebody here and this happens but now
we live in an age where you can you know
when I do a class I this is this is a a
stab to the heart and here's like five
videos of it happening live you know on
live leags or whatever and we can
deconstruct that not only that but what
weapon was used oh it was a gas station
folder it was a Pioneer Woman knife from
Walmart with flowers on the handle you
know whatever it was uh and people start
realizing that it doesn't take a
lot that it doesn't take a lot of
training because a lot of these people
are not high level assassins trained by
ninjas in the Hills or anything like
that they're people that you grew up
rurally or learn by seeing that behavior
in
others and when they start coming to the
realization that it's pretty easy to do
that and they start figuring out like
how do you counteract that well number
one learn the behavior yourself so you
can recognize it the whole aspect of
being a good counter Ambush team is to
be a best the best ambusher in the
planet so again the whole aspect of
moushi saying know your enemy know his
sword you know you figure that out as
far as learning that behavior you know
when you start seeing how some of these
stabbings occurred occur the first thing
you notice is that one of one of the
hands is always kind of out of the
picture or there's a lack of symmetry in
the people that are about to do
something horrible so when you see lack
of symmetry in the environment somebody
with their hands going backwards um
there's a crowd of people and some and a
and two or one individual is looking
counter the where everybody else is
looking or there's a hyper aware
individual in a crowd uh the hyper aware
are always usually out there to fuck
somebody over or are they're trying to
keep those Predators from fucking
somebody else over so
unless you step back and you put
yourself in the process of learning how
they learn and you become that potential
nightmare person it's hard to recognize
that in a in a crowd it feels like one
of the significant ways to win or as
Street Fighters to avoid it by sort of
sending pacifist signals in every way
meaning avoiding the situation whenever
there's like uh like a hypervigilant
people you just kind of avoid signaling
that you're one of the players to of
Interest yeah if we're talking about
counter Ambush at which point do you do
that versus shift to
the aggression yeah I think violence
should be always an option you know
everybody should have that option and
you need to be good at that option I
think uh I think I heard Jordan Peterson
talk about the fact that everybody needs
to be dangerous but keep that shit under
control you know yeah I think he was
referring to a different context but I
know
I know I'm I'm referring to the ability
of the little physical conflict there's
two cases that I saw of people just
utilizing social engineering to a
beautiful degree to deescalate shit
right one guy uh somewhere first off if
you're in a place where people are
grabbing your wife's ass or something
like that like what are you doing there
you know there's a load of things that
are wrong with everything that you're
doing in your life to be in that
environment but yeah let's say you're in
an in inescapable situation there was
this guy who was in a compromised
position uh somebody wanted to fight him
uh like legit kick his ass and he said
okay uh I'm let's go but I I just I need
to warn you that I have heepsy before we
go
outside and that masterful I was getting
my phone out to to film this you know
maybe and even I was just lowered my
phone to to to give him a slow clap that
was a beautiful move you know um and
then there was this other man uh there
was a there was a riot somewhere in uh
uh in inada the M the municipality of
inada and Baja they were protesting some
of the the people that pick those fields
down there part of a tribe called those
tiis very Hardy hardworking people but
nefarious people too they're they're
pretty they're pretty good at their
thing um there was a riot line they
couldn't break and this old man walks in
the middle of the riot line and yells
grenade and throws an avocado in the
middle of all the cops mhm and
all you broke that ride line with an
avocado uh that could have gone wrong in
so many ways but it didn't I don't know
to me like it's there's small lessons
there there is a case to be made about
social engineering about learning about
Behavior about learning how to lie and
how to kind of uh move your way or
navigate your way around situations like
that small things like bartering knowing
how to bribe people in Conflict zones is
the thing that I I show when I talk
about or train people to work in hostile
environments deescalation you know
specifically kind of figuring out what
is a value in the environment uh what
things you shouldn't be doing in an
environment that might be considered
disrespectful or out of place you know
people have a tendency that that didn't
grow up in places that are violent to
make continuous eye contact with
somebody that might be a issue or
smiling when there's nothing to smile
about I think uh you know uh there's a
picture I saw somewhere of Russians
taking a a portrait and there's
Americans there and the Americans are
smiling but the Russians aren't yeah
because what is there to smile about
which is true and of course it's not as
simple as smile or not smile there's
subtlety to it like you said eye contact
is a super interesting one cuz um I
found in my in my own life like not
making eye contact is other people would
be joking but it's a really powerful way
to deescalate and there's such a
fascinating thing though cuz you could
talk talk about drunk fights that are
just uh that are harmless but I feel
like the same Dynamic applies to the
most violent conflict including Wars I
feel like ego is part of this so to me
the question of conflict whether it's a
street fighter anything else is the
calculus of are you willing to take an
owl yeah uh in terms of psychology
somebody grabs your wife's ass you
mentioned
boy if you let that happen you go home
you're going to have to pay the price of
you were the person who didn't defend
you like in your relationship you didn't
defend your wife's honor yeah you're
going to psychologically pay that price
yourself and depending on your wife she
might secretly also lose a little bit of
respect for you yeah now how do you play
that calculus cuz now we see the war in
Ukraine I would say there is elements of
similar POS uring in the United States
in in Europe in Ukraine Russia China
leadership at a at a geopolitics it's
still somebody grabs somebody's ass and
you're not backing down so to take those
losses and basically just posture you
know lower your head and live to fight
another day type situation the thing
with modern violence is you know the
access to Weaponry uh you know and I
mean again nobody owns life but anybody
can hold the fr frying pan can know
death I've seen people um you know get
double leg taked down somebody on the
ground it's a different thing doing in
the mats versus concrete that's a good
way to kill somebody you know the most
prolific impact weapon on the planet is
the planet itself you can see various
videos of people online where they fall
and they hit their head or somebody hits
their head and they go into you know the
stretched out fit basically uh and that
might not kill you then but it'll kill
you that night or the second night you
don't get checked out you know people
bleed out and internally you get an
edema again the whole aspect of me
showing how some of these things not
only some of these methodologies and
some how people prepare for violence and
how people experience violence how they
make their weapons how people fight in
the streets and stuff like that is to
recognize that behavior from the
Inception you know uh there's a video I
show where there a bunch of Street kids
in Rio de Janeiro I think it's during
the Olympics where they're snatching
chains and cell phones from people mhm
and it's a fun video you know see it and
it's uh the first thing you learn about
it is how they target people now who are
they going after there's a bunch of
people there why are they going after
that specific
person and you start learning about
profiling and how they identify victim
mentality you know or the Vic the
perfect victim you know lack of
awareness they keep on a straight line
avoidance avoidance of eye contact if
they're you know doing something
nefarious or wrong uh and how they pick
who they're going to go after you know
the small people the the women you know
the the even some of the men and they
separate the men that they're perfect
victims versus the men that's is going
to turn around punch them in the face
you know what are they looking for you
know well first off you know you you
notice that the the men that are in that
environment that look at them and are
aware of their presence the hyper aware
or the ones that are not good to Target
so that's the first lesson there so it's
probably a good idea not only to be
hyper aware but to recognize that hyper
awareness in others if I want to
separate myself from the victim crowd
another thing you notice is these are
kids going after some grown adults and
some of these grown adult men are with
women and you see them you know kind of
getting outside of the grasp of the the
kids that are trying to rip their chains
off their neck or their cell phones and
they have no consideration for the women
around them uh you see other men that
are with women and you see them grab the
women and put them behind them and
immediately they'll say this this is the
wrong one let me move off to the next
one so that that small little lesson in
that in those videos will show you first
how these kids are growing up tar to to
profile and Target who the perfect
victims are that's a school for them and
that is an adversarial school we should
look at that school and apply it to
ourselves so in general you think
conflict ultimately the people that are
doing conflict are looking for for
weakness I mean they're looking for
opportunity opportunistic that's the
Predators that's what they do they look
for an opportunity you know uh from
jumping down from a tree and and and
getting the G the slowest gazelle to uh
looking for the opportune moment to
pounce on something that's probably big
but the risk is worth it I feel like
there's uh several motivations but but
isn't isn't there
also a a power hierarchy motivation as
well yeah like you there's something
about the big guy that tempts you to
send message especially with gangs
aren't they send aren't they constantly
uh sort of trying to signal that they're
the alpha yeah I mean there I mean
there's a different situations you could
be you could be facing a sociopathic a
predator who is looking for something in
you that you are the resource that
they're looking after maybe it's a woman
you know it could be a group of people
that don't like the fact that you have a
specific uh nationality uh or your Pass
Support is stamped in a specific way or
that you pray to whatever God all these
have factor in uh but in the end they
all do the same thing they look for an
advantageous position if I were to
Target you I would put you in between
that wall and you know me so you have
two Avenues of exits and I will step on
one of your feet to keep that Avenue
closed so you have to go this way so
this is where my knife is going to be
you see that behavior
mirrored everywhere in the world first
off you look for advantages right if
it's something that's unavoidable like
you're in between me and my ability to
go home or you're in between me and my
ability to feed my family or you're in
between me and my ability to posture to
the people that are behind me the young
guys that I'm in charge I will do
everything in my power to end you
right the motivations are not my realm
but the ways they do it are are you know
and the basically the advantage part of
it so desperation is uh
is dangerous it's a dangerous school
when I say dangerous school I mean the
most dangerous people usually come from
those desperate environments you know
you you can have uh people in Coronado
holding on to logs in the ocean and go
through this millions of dollars worth
of training and just be professional
Killers uh for the government and just
be these incredible human
beings and then there's a kid that will
walk up to one of them when he's off you
know and uh put ice pick right into his
chest uh when he's least expecting it
and that doesn't mean that one is
superior than the other it just means
that there are more there's more than
one way to become that you know
teenagers terrify me it feels like the
intensity of
desperation like the capacity of a
teenager like 16 177 to be desperate and
also not have the matured understanding
of ethics of the world like they have
this intensity of
feeling uh that I unlike anything else
they don't have a volume knob to that so
it's like a it's like a garden hose
without an nozzle on it so you can
regulate it they haven't developed that
they haven't learned that maybe from
somebody else or you used to be Warrior
cult cultures you would you would be
Apprentice under somebody or you would
learn some of these things from other
people even some gang modern gangs have
a little bit of that but if you're not
and you're just this kid that's been
playing Call of Duty uh all of his life
or has been witnessing violence and in
media and there's
no sense of it's probably a bad idea to
go off and do this because all these
repercussions I could see how that could
be a danger to society and some of the
volume knobs some of the countermeasures
to people exploding on somebody else
with
a with a weapon you know that you see
videos constantly online that remember
seeing this one of these two uh teenage
girls somewhere in the US and one of
them just
there's a fight there's a hair pulling
competition and all of a sudden one of
them takes out a knife and it just
happens like that and it's just pure and
restrained downward stabbing you know
you're like wait where does that come
from well uh she's from an environment
where she saw that as an option she
didn't see the repercussions of it and
she found herself in a place where she
thought that was the only viable option
pulling out a weapon and that's I think
that's that's the dangerous part of it
so how do you prepare uh to win those
kinds of situations to escape those
kinds of
situations like you said it's training
it's exposing your mind I always tell
people like if if you don't have a
combative base you don't have a Bas uh
boxing jiujitsu and that that gives you
what like an awareness of your body kind
of thing it gives you an awareness of
your body give you a spatial awareness
if somebody if you C if you can't see
the points with your peripheral vision
if you can't see the points of
somebody's feet in your peripheral
vision they are in range to stab you in
the heart if they wanted to and that's
something you learn from boxing that you
learn from Jiu-Jitsu you learn from a
bunch of combat Arts where you're you
learn about distance and angling people
that comes from this experience that you
have you know again a lot of these
things were just horse play when we're
growing up in some cultures or you know
Rough and Tumble with your brother since
she like that but we're some of us are
growing up in single kid homes now and
we don't get that we were missing that
and if you don't have it then you find
it in the you find it in a Jiu-Jitsu gym
you find it in a boxing gym you have it
you find it in a Thai boxing gym you
find it in places where they specialize
in focusing on certain aspects of this
whole combative hall right used to be
before UFC you know we the Kung Fu man
you know that K Fu guy that's just
Street Lethal shit you you can't use it
and the sporting you can't show you this
because it'll kill you now we pretty
much know that most of that was you know
Flights of Fancy or BS you know it pains
me too man I wanted to learn some of the
deach single Punchy and killing
technique you know I remember those
books but that's just not still on the
lookout for that yeah maybe somewhere I
don't know you know maybe if you put a
pen in your hand that that might turn
into that but that's that's the only way
that's the only way right but uh a lot
of these myths are kind of like faded
away and now you see people that have
different combed BAS is combining them
all and becoming a fighter
now that's UFC fight two people fighting
each other is one thing you know you
being in the middle of the Portland R
and a bunch of state troopers throwing
gas at Riders and then Riders themselves
fighting each other and you finding
yourself in the middle of that that's a
completely different thing and if you
think you're going to you know go on go
on the ground and get in a guard with a
with a with a guy swinging around a a
shovel a piece of shovel handle right as
tear gas is going on because you got uh
stopped there and your car was you know
windows were broken and your family's in
the back seat you know that is a
different situation
so get medical uh learning how learning
about Weaponry you know uh I I
personally don't really like fighting on
the ground but that's why I forced
myself to go to train with different
people out there you know uh on the
ground you jitu catch wrestling so top
and bottom neither you don't like either
I I personally I like being in a car and
running everybody over that would be
great you know if I could or driving
really far away or um I had this I had
this experience in Utah uh some some
friends of mine military uh some of your
best Shooters some of the best Shooters
in the US you know coming from the uh
the Marine Core were showing were
showing me how they you know would shoot
something from really far away and I was
like H you don't even have to be in the
same
vicinity the scope of violence how far
you can be from it or how close you
could be from it just wait till we get
to see what we can do in the Cyber
attack world we can destroy your whole
well-being your whole life your identity
that's another aspect of it too
financial and then uh figure out where
you live in terms of Ambush yeah
figuring out everything about you such
that hurting you is easy I have a class
where we specifically de work on social
engineering and kind of how how how you
can go about something that you know a
micro level uh we I do a class with a
guy named Matt fidler who does a
basically he's one of the Premier
experts on how to get into and bypass
locks
basically uh you'll we he'll show you
how to open up every single or bypass
every single commercial lock available
in the United States like like he'll
spread it out it'll open up everything
and that's like right and my part in his
class is I talk about how you can pull
some of that off in a public space and
not get caught or how you would employ
some of these things in a context where
it's like useful for law enforcement for
the military stuff like that and uh so
we have this exercise in a public space
where there's a bunch of PAAD locks in
the environment right and they we paint
them pink so people know it's our
padlocks and we're not breaking into
anybody else's padlocks if we get
approached and asked about it but I
asked the students like so you have to
gather all these padlocks from this
public space you know so how would you
do it so a lot of them are trying to
pick them you know they're like very
suspiciously picking them and stuff like
that they you get caught and it's a
whole situation but the Smart Ones Will
basically develop a social media
campaign related to the bad loocks right
um a a beautiful a beautiful example of
this and this actually happened here in
Texas I did a class out in uh Dallas we
put the padlocks all over this public
mall and the students basically came up
with a breast cancer awareness campaign
online that they they made fake uh well
they made flyers for it they did the
social media page on a campaign they
they did this email chain so when they
went there people were expecting them MH
so they normalized the behavior through
social media and they were walking
around bull Cutters in the middle of a
mall cutting these things
off that's a beautiful that's a
beautiful solution to a complex problem
of that nature and again we the
weaponizing part of it anything can be
all knowledge can be weaponized and it's
if you focus on getting in a street
fight with somebody with your fist or a
knife you know you're missing out on the
whole complexity of violence and and the
way that it's now being
utilized so in terms of breaking out
locks and restraints and captivity let's
talk about a dark topic that you're one
of the world experts in kidnapping so
you teach courses on Conor kidnapping
and terrorism I read an estimate that
criminal gangs get $500 million a year
in Ransom payments from kidnapping so
just at a high level what is kidnapping
who does it and why what are some
insights that can help uh us understand
what is this problem in the world it
happens in different ways in different
parts of the world I mean I just sent
off a a group of people that uh trained
some of the ukrainians uh and some of
the stuff that they were show they were
showing them was some of the counter
custody stuff that I showed them uh for
the Mind named Vince went out there was
showing them some of the aspects of how
to utilize things like uh Kevlar cordage
and how to infuse it in their uniform so
if they get uh zip tied to cut them open
it's a war setting so it's talks about
uh being captive in a war zone but the
information or the methodology actually
comes from Mexico that methodology as
far as how I learned it in terms of how
to escape from restraint and stuff like
that so in Mexico you have abductions
happening where uh cartels uh who hold
uh control over a specific uh place or
Zone um are having a hard time uh with
financial situations as far as uh maybe
they're not making enough money to pay
everybody off so they let them freelance
basically and a lot of way some of these
criminal groups freelance or some of
these groups actually professionalizing
to abduct businessmen abduct the sons of
business bus men or people that have
money to ask for ransoms for them
basically and uh they've taken you know
captivity and and abduction to like an
art form in places like Mexico and has a
history all over the world but uh
specifically my experience with it with
it was going to uh cartel safe houses
that turned into holding places you
would see you know homemade prison cells
and stuff like that uh and people being
held in captivity for months if not
years as they were milking their family
for everything they owned so it turns
out into a business they're not actually
even interested in hurting the people no
physically they're interested in hurting
them uh financially financially and also
this if they get hurt they're hurt for a
purpose which is to make their family
pay up faster or more uh some of the
abduction groups that I've seen out
there professional ones in Mexico
basically make it a living to Target
people that have abduction insurance or
that work for companies that have good
abduction insurance so it's it's it's
almost like an ATM for them you know
it's like ah here again H so there's
some of that going on uh some not so
much uh some abductions are Express I
mean I'll grab you with a uh in guno
take you to an ATM you empty it out and
then you're on your way that's an
Express kidnapping that might not be
worth you doing any insane you know you
just go with the
Motions um but some people do get picked
up you know uh I have trained people
with prior experiences of abductions in
Mexico and here in the United States
people that have spent some time in
captivity with loved ones here like
ex-boyfriends or boyfriends that tie
them up and beat the shit out of them
and the restraints they utilize are zip
ties and handcuffs some sometimes or
duct tape or their own clothing things
of this nature basically what somebody's
looking for when they tie anybody up is
to convince you that they are in control
that they are God and that any hope of
you releasing those restraints or
getting out of that situation is
hopeless from a cartel group picking you
up in the middle of a dirt road
somewhere in Cancun to uh ex-boyfriend
showing up at your house and tying you
up till you agree to get back with them
that's the same thing uh and some of the
restraints that are being utilized uh
come from different places I mean I
remember an instructor I had way back
when told me that the proliferation of
zip ties as a restraint in criminal
abductions came up after the movie Heat
came out because everybody wanted to be
Robert Ino zip tying people in the bank
robbery at the end of the movie
criminals saw that and it became like
thing hilarious can you actually speak
to the is it possible to systematically
learn how to escape restraints like
handcuffs rope zip ties the best at it
or not the military they not see or
program people they are criminals I
learn how to get out of hand us from a
15-year-old who was in charge of meth
sales and in La revolution in Tijuana is
there a system to it I mean it's not
specifically a system it's uh usually
what they what happens is they'll buy a
set of handcuffs and they will mess
around with them in a playing feature so
one thing I do in a class is first off
I'm honest about the fact that some you
know all restraints are temporary even
marriage this is this like wait can we
just pause in the Deep philosophical
you're like Moto Musashi with that
statements all all restraints are
temporary even marriage uh I'll just I
just I just like adding that one in
there for last because this is a dark
subject every cage can be escaped all
restraints are temporary you you either
free yourselves from the restraints
somebody else takes them off or you die
and your body rots her way around them
you know those are the options um and I
like that first option myself the second
option is pretty cool if you can
convince somebody to do that for you uh
but that first option is an interesting
one you have to deconstruct restraints
not all restraints are made the same uh
you can train to get out of handcuffs
here in the US and you know focus on a
pair of Smith and Weston handcuffs which
are kind of of the most common brand of
handcuffs here but if you find yourself
in DET in detention somewhere in Russia
the handcuffs out there are completely
different you know the key way is
different the mechanism is different but
some of the same ways of bypassing those
mechanisms are let me write this down so
in Russia what kind are they using they
to travel in there I need this
information I'll send you a specific
model and details on how to get out of
those uh uh but basically just asking
for a friend I'm sorry yeah so what I do
is I I take a I take a pair of smiing
Weston handcuffs I put them in the
middle of a of three people in the in a
class I spread them out and I have them
place them on each other in a just
playing manner I have hand I have
handcuff ke there and I have a pair of
Bowl Cutters there in case somebody gets
stuck does something stupid so they they
play with each other as far as putting
them on randomly I show them how to put
him on appropriately and then I show
them a handcuff key and a handcuff key
will open up handcuffs interestingly
enough uh but the thing about a handcuff
key is it's not made to be used by the
person that is in those handcuffs
so that's the first lesson there if you
have a handcuff key handcuff keys are
the most used tool to open up handcuffs
in custody situations you know both
criminals escaping from the police to
people escaping from criminals just the
standard hidden handcuff key so I showed
them how to modify that handcuff key so
it's more optimal to use on yourself
with just basic garbage that you can
find piece of wire a zip type piece
basically how to put a leverage arm on
the Handcuff key so you can actually
spin it in the keyway behind your back
or in front of you I'm trying to think I
don't think I've ever been in handcuff
uh appropriate way to handcuff
somebody's Palms out how much
restriction is there in terms of there's
a lot if it's a is a hinge handcuff
there's a lot of restriction with no CH
can you reach back you could try and
reach back or you can basically put
yourself in a in a not compromised
position and feed the most of your palm
meat into the Handcuff way so when they
shut it shut it on you you have more
space to work with so you can spin your
hand we call it a passive resistance um
again you go through a process with them
where you deconstruct how people are
handcuffed uh handcuff keys and how to
modify handcuff key to be able to use on
yourself and these all of these things
they're constructing as we go so they
basically hey what's a grinding surface
well there's concrete outside so they
grind an angle on the key so you can get
a key not to go straight into the keywa
but you can get it into the key we at an
angle for example it's something it's
something that is out there as far as a
method you can't spin a key behind your
back because it's small it's designed to
be used by somebody else opening those
handcuffs on you so you put an arm on it
so you can leverage our arm so you can
spin it behind your
back you learn how to put yourself in
not a compromised position if somebody
asks you for your handcuff your hands so
so they could be cuffed you don't do
this you know you do that or you put
yourself in a Gable grip behind your
back which is a a pretty strong grip and
it's hard to spread those hands apart
it's also something that people go into
automatically when they're in fear so
all of these things are advantageous for
you and uh you learn how not only people
get restrained but you see videos of
them because I show a bunch of abduction
actually happening
live again the best thing is avoidance
but specifically when you work around
restraints is number one learn how some
of these restraints work number two is
learning how some of the
readymade tools to get out of the
restraints look like function and number
three which is the advanced level is
learn how to construct all these things
yourself which is I think that is the
that is the best thing you can show
somebody for handcuffs I just use a
standard pair of handcuffs and then we
deconstruct other very specialized
handcuffs that might be out there and
you show them if you're going to travel
somewhere learn what restraints are
commonly in the available in the
environment somebody going to North
subaran Africa
ining a plastic handcuff key is that's
going to be useless out there because
there's not going to be standard
handcuffs out there that would
be open with that type of key out there
you're probably going to be tied up with
a chain and a padlock of some sort maybe
a 40 mm Chinese padlock with a plastic
core that you can open with a a lighter
if you can burn the core melt the core
open or uh if you can leverage that open
that's a pretty easy thing to open or a
bobby pin you could reach all the way in
the back and open the latch what about
rope
uh that common yeah it is common uh this
is one of my favorite things for
rope something I usually carry and some
places it's another gift for you if you
want it's a ceramic razor blade nice is
it capable of
cutting nice right small uh you can put
it behind a label I've seen some
students put the leis label on there and
just so it back on um it is non magnetic
non FIS so in and out of uh you know
that type of situation you can get in it
and it's something you can have with you
everywhere this is a pretty fancy one or
you can just grab a simple razor blade
and actually learning how to use or
leverage a razor blade between your
palms and know how to go up and down
with it to be able to cut yourself out
of course that's just practice to do
that well it's practice and it's also
exposure to just this is a possibility
this is how you could hide it again the
whole smuggling aspect comes from a
criminal uh a criminal mindset type
setting so how how things are hidden
where they're hidden and when I talk
about concealing objects of this nature
it's usually comes from smuggling you
know the fact that I have something in a
notebook comes from heroin
smuggling if you're not looking at the
school of criminality you're you're
missing out on a big part of the uh
equation so for people who want to learn
about this do do you teach courses on
this do do you know what's the what's
the rec how do you get in touch with you
or learn from you do you have stuff
online or is it only in person so I have
some stuff on my patreon uh specifically
I have a patreon where I share a lot of
the online material I basically a bunch
of this is my notebook I have a bunch of
stuff that I I just met somebody in
Philadelphia that showed me a pretty
unique way of utilizing a box cutter as
a weapon so I wrote some of that down I
filmed some of it um and it's not for
any other reason I'm not uh trying to
create Danger people out there it's like
hey look at this this is something
that's out there right um so a lot of
that information some of those notes and
stuff like that I keep on my patreon I
used to share it openly on Facebook and
Instagram but that uh that has not uh
been possible anymore well I'm a member
of your patreon and recommend people
sign up it's really great because you
also have philosophy you're you're
you're the you're the uh the Mexican
mamoto
Masashi uh so it's not just these skills
it's also the philos around it like I
got that book that book of five rings
before I went into training like I took
that with me through training the whole
aspect of you know go to places uh
frightening to the common brand of men
you know be put in jail and extricate
yourself with your own wisdom I think he
was speaking about experiencing
experience you know the whole Warriors
Journey the heroes journey of going out
there and actually
risking um I think that's a pretty big
basis and aspect of what the work I do
and showing some of these things there's
a tendency see to people say hey I'm
afraid to go to Mexico uh what do I need
to know like well if you're afraid to go
to Mexico go to Mexico um I mean I was
in Detroit I was pretty afraid when I
was in Detroit in some parts of Detroit
and uh the Southside Chicago um but uh I
don't want to be dictated where I can go
and where I can't go because of safety I
want to take responsibility for that
myself and figure out ways of being more
capable and an asset to the people
around me and
myself and that comes through experience
um and people want to risk getting a
shoulder injury rolling in Jiu-Jitsu or
don't want to risk getting a bloody nose
and boxing but that is the way well
there's some aspect to fitting in you
quote Kor Hanzo on imitation the most
important thing you should keep in mind
when you go on a Shinobi mission is to
imitate well the language of the target
Province and the ways of the local
people this includes their appearances
the way of wearing clothes the way of
shaving their head the way of making up
their hair the way of making up a sword
or short Sword and the way of refinement
and luxury so how do you fit into some
of those places so you know Mexico but a
person like me that doesn't know
anything about Mexico and say I'm
interviewing somebody in a leadership
position in a dra cartel yeah how
quickly do you learn how to fit in I
mean it's not about fitting in it's
about coming up with a narrative for
yourself with that book is talking
that's a that's a quote from the book
called a show ninky which is like a an
actual legit ninja manual from like the
1500s or something like that um and uh
they're they're not talking about
blending in they're talking about
creating a narrative or a lie to your
appearance and your behavior and your
knowledge base that's what they're
talking about so I would say first if
you're going to go to a place like that
first off learn what is common there
what type of common restraints might be
placed on you what criminal group groups
work out there what type of guns they
have not only what type of guns they
have but go to the gun range in Vegas
and learn how to f some of these
Firearms yourself so you know how to
load them in case you run into a bad
situation how they tie the sword you how
they how they wear their short swords
could equate to how you know if you run
into some issues also it would give you
a good idea how many how many rounds
those hold so you can run at the right
moment I like how you focus in on the on
the tools of violence but there's also
the the social engineering deescalation
right yeah so if you are in an
environment like that and you are
carrying around a camera that might be
an issue or the opposite not be an issue
well if you're asked like who are you
with I'm with the news organization or
am I with a Christian Aid group here
yeah and if you are with a Christian Aid
group it's probably a good idea to learn
some of the Bible right if you like if
you want a quick way of having a
somebody out there try and stop talking
to you you just start talking about
Jesus in the middle of a a little cartel
territory when they approach you and
take out the Bible that that'll quickly
deescalate so what I usually prefer to
do is I find somebody from the New York
Times And The Wall Street Journal and
beat them up in front of the just to
send a signal that I'm not a journalist
and I too don't like journalists that
could that could be that could be a way
but uh to send a message I think a lot
of us miss the fact that we are capable
of taking control of our own narrative
and what we communicate to people around
us I can show up here uh drinking a
Monster energy drink dumping It On The
Ground scratching you know what then
just sit down and just be a rude
motherfucker that's not who I am but I
can do that and you will believe me if I
am good at it some of us miss uh some of
us don't know this aspect because it's
something we consider predatory or
something that is wrong or negative or
bad yeah and some of these aspects are
actually you know they're pretty useful
um I learned most of my trade craft and
skillcraft from panhandlers and street
performers and when I had some training
related to social engineering those were
the people that I learned from uh I
remember we were doing surveillance and
there was a guy there that showed us how
to do surveillance you know on the
street and he said if you can find a way
for somebody to smell you before they
see you you'll become invisible and I
was like that's bullshit if you can find
a way of somebody smelling you before
they see you become invisible I didn't
understand what that
meant so we went on a three-day Bender
didn't take a shower smell like shit no
deodorant you know you smell like a
homeless person you look like a homeless
person and you approach somebody asking
for the time and they smell you before
they see you and you are not there
you're not a human you don't exist
exist so that was a pretty valuable
lesson that I got there yeah so that
that's interesting but like I have this
belief it has to do with the way I
operate in this world I suppose but if
you come off as a person legitimately I
guess you could fake it but I I think it
it just feels like you can be extremely
good possibly the best in the
world if you practice it your whole life
at being you you yeah at being authent
being at showing like you have nothing
to hide and a True Believer is what I A
True Believer so like yes you can come
up with a fake narrative but then what I
mean is like live that narrative your
whole life
then like I yeah I understand and then
never falter from that like you are this
person that's what I'm trying to I have
nothing to hide I I consider I consider
that a True Believer and yeah that is a
unique person when you meet them and
they are out there there are people that
will fucking walk into places this is
who I am I don't give a fuck this is who
I am if you don't trust me well shoot me
fuck it um this is my honesty and if you
don't trust me well look at all these
people that I've interacted with in the
past and you can ask them about it or
you can see my effects on other people
that's going to be my presentation card
and so the way you said it now is using
words and it's blunt usually somebody's
blunt like that like I'm a no bullshit
person that means they're not that means
they're are full of shit actually but
you do that through I mean I'm saying
I'm verbalizing your behavior you know
just walking somewhere uh you know let's
say you're going to interview somebody
very dangerous down there and you walk
into a room without
worry that is that is a presentation to
you you know that's a pretty in pretty
interesting introduction um you know
you're not a threat because you don't
consider yourself a threat and you're
walking in there with the confidence
that you don't consider yourself a a
threat which is an interesting way of
going about it uh my life experiences
have been different um I was in
programmed that way from an early age
and uh it's hard to for me to go into
that line although more and more as I
get older and as I learn more about the
world and I've failed a few more times I
can understand or more cognizant of the
fact
that you don't really have to try that
much if you if you believe in your in in
yourself and who you are if you know
yourself that's I think that is at the
core of it if you know yourself enough
to to be able to to kind of communicate
that to people around you and you're not
hiding from yourself from the world your
flaws too that was the other thing you
spoke to that is probably aspiring to
others is being honest about your flaws
about your weaknesses as a human being
you can't pick pocket a naked man and
right if you if you can if you know how
to be naked and again I'm not there I
think I'm I'm working towards that just
by you know openly going through shit
and uh showing people not telling them
is show me don't tell me is another
valuable lesson that I got long ago um I
I travel across the country and I don't
not only get to show people what I know
how to do but I I I I give examples of
it through things that I do out there
and uh I say this a lot you know when I
travel out there I'm never alone you
know there's couches out there waiting
for me you know there's uh there's homes
that I can get go go and stay at and
friends that I have out there that I
have never even met but that's been
about me not only woring some of those
mistakes and and past failures on my
sleeve but also turning them into
lessons for people and just telling
people the fact that you know I know how
to do all this weird stuff you know and
I show people how to do it yeah but
here's a bunch of weird memes that are
very humorous about my culture and about
being through going through therapy and
this is me doing something Goofy and
this is me being an idiot in front of
all you guys as well you know this is me
being the fool I think that uh is
another aspect of it I love that as part
of that Journey you made enemies with
the rodeo clown and made up with him
afterwards oh we're still we're still
we're in a very toxic relationship you
know he knows who he is he's probably
out there listening he's uh love and
hate we we we we stopped talking to each
other for months and then you know just
send a thck message of some sort and
just you know we're back at it you know
back yeah love expressed through anger I
love it it's therapeutic you you have
both very interesting career paths if we
can just jump back to in a really
interesting topic that I wanted to
mention um on Narco
cultism what are Narco Cults what's the
relationship between you kind of
mentioned religion a little bit yeah
what's the relationship between
religious culture and drug culture first
off Mexico is one of the most Catholic
countries on the planet if not the most
Catholic country on the planet not only
that it is a country that has
a root in spirituality through its in in
ethnic uh
culture
that other other parts of the world got
most of that taken away and or
suppressed or killed or taken away um
when the uh Spanish came to Mexico they
were a product of a recently
liberated group of people they just got
done being invaded by the Moors
basically and they brought with them the
image of La
Guadalupe the Virgin of Guadalupe and
heran Cortez's vision of that her
version of that was a lady holding a
crystal
scepter baby Jesus and standing on a
crescent moon that's what that's what he
brought with him to the
Americas and uh when the conquest
happened you know a lot of people say
yeah the Spanish came and conquested the
me the the the astec
Empire the enemies of the astec Allied
themselves with the Spanish and they
took took them down that's what happened
and then the rest was famine and
sickness that's what killed most of them
they realized that it was going to be
hard to suppress some of the spiritual
practices in Mexico so they decided to M
them with Catholic
iconography so you see these uh this
cult to uh toen which is like a
fertility variant of a mother goddess in
atic culture and they turn her into Lupe
which is the icon that a lot of uh
Mexicans venerate as the laian the
Virgin um but in her she conceals
cultural elements from the past she has
a black sash across her stomach which
means she's pregnant something common in
the atic uh culture in the mahika
culture she's standing on a cherub that
has Eagle wings that is a war god that's
the symbol of the war god down there she
has stars on her which is a veil of
certain stars that are related to some
of the spiritual practice from
before basically they hid these things
in in in that in that uh setting now you
skip
forward you know hundreds of years and
you start seeing things like uh malverde
who was a bandit that lived in caloa way
back in the day he would Rob Rich
Farmers that would go through the uh the
countryside one time he was almost
caught and he was shot and injured and
he was wanted by the government so he
told told one of his friends
to tell them where he was and to give
the money the reward money to the town's
people so we did that uh the he was hung
from a tree and the the order was not to
bury him just to let his body rot and
his body R rotted away until it fell on
the ground
bones and each of the towns people would
go over and put a rock on top of his
corpse until it became a pile of rocks
and then he started granting miracles
so again this whole aspect of these
criminals becoming
Saints uh and also a middle finger from
the downward local populace to the uh
the church in a way because he's not a
recognized saint but he has a an altar
and people venerate
that then you have cartels that have a
spiritual practice or spirituality
behind what they do which is part of
their culture but is also like a tool
they use
to ingratiate themselves with the local
populace or the or the population around
them uh they're icon icons of power and
sometimes of uh almost a symbol of
rebellion uh you see El Chapo's son when
he was arrested had a santono ATA on his
chest which is a it's a holy kid of
ATA his Spanish Legend during the morish
conquest uh they said that a a statue of
that Saint would go around and feed some
of the hungry you you know that was the
legend and he's a he's a saint of the p
p persecuted so the fact that when he
was arrested he was you see him with
that wearing wearing that and then he
was liberated is a miracle in of
itself so it's proof that that works you
see that that was you can find one of
those scapol adios anywhere in Mexico
that was the most highly sold one um so
you see them utilizing some of these
aspects uh in in their own belief system
to as a symbol or as icon iconography
basically for some of the things they do
then you go into some of other aspects
of it that are out there like Santa mu
which is actually a faith that I grew up
in Mexico has a weird weird relationship
to death we have parties at the cemetery
on Day of the Dead We I just went
through one you know recently this this
is uh November November the
2nd uh so we celebrate our dead and we
celebrate death in a way that I don't
think a lot of cultures out there do so
it's a joyful occasion it is a
celebration yeah my 8-year-old put two
beers on an altar one for my mom one for
my brother she bought a Snickers bar for
my mom and a a a bag of pops for my
brother uh flower petals and marry gold
and pictures of them on an altar at
that's amazing what kind of
beer teat Roa for my mother because
she's you know she was Hardcore and uh
they got the light from my brother you
know he was a more of a endurance
drinker
um and it's also for me yeah the
relationship to death down there is
different uh so there's an icon in
Mexico it's actually one of the fastest
growing uh alternative spiritual
practices in Mexico and not only in
Mexico but here in the US I've I've been
to Santa Mora temples across the country
I found one in Connecticut out of all
places how I grew up with it or I saw it
is uh we would we my family was
guadalupanos we were we were uh Catholic
and we venerated the V Virgin of
Guadalupe specifically the icon of the
Virgin of Guadalupe but every now and
then there were winks and nods to a
skeletal Saint in in in family practices
and even when I went to work uh the the
guy the older guys that were I was
working with would tell me like hey we
got to go ask uh ask for protection so
they would drive me over to the church
and I thought it was going to the
cathedral and then we made a left turn
and it wasn't the cathedral it was the
market next to the cathedral in Tijuana
and in the little corner there was a big
uh Santa mu Reaper Refugee and then I
knew why I had to bring a bottle tequila
I was like why am I bringing a bottle
tequila to the church it was for her for
death
La it was partly
hazing and also they did believe that
they were basically imbued with the
being agents of death in a way so it was
like a cultural thing as well something
that they they wore on them as not only
protection but as also like a Sam like a
samurai would wear this death
iconography on them or
how uh the mai would do uh Haka dances
you know to some of these guys in their
kind of warrior culture that they were
growing up with or trying to inew on us
the young guys
uh they would um take us there and they
would en viw US with iconography of sant
Mar to be like a psychological thing so
that gives you strength and meaning in
the face of struggle like in the in the
face of difficulties in life I think uh
you know you closeness to death and
having a relationship to death in the
form of a symbolic representation of it
like Santa Mar or an icon like that
makes it not as scary I guess or not not
only that but it's also something that
the other side the en me the cartel's
groups they would venerate it as well so
when they would see it on you it was
almost debilitating to them they were
like oh are you guys cops are you guys
who are you why are you wearing that uh
so there was an aspect of that to it um
a momental mi my type thing where you'll
remember death you know type thing
there's some aspect in which you don't
want to mess with the person who
meditates on death there was some of
that
yeah there was a saying I I think they
probably took it from a movie or
something like that but I don't know
where they got it uh may I may I earn
your need and be your
wrath oh man it's a good line they would
say that to the Statue of L Santa you
know another thing people it's not a
cartel specific Saint though it's like
everybody like at all levels from the
lady that sells tortillas to the um to
the cops to the military there's some
people in the military that venerated uh
there's a there's a very specific symbol
of how this is like a weird relationship
in the specifically in Santa Marta in
Mexico there's a there's a shrine
outside of Tijuana right across the uh
La Pressa it's like a water reservoir
right tjuana and there was a big Santa
morte uh altar there like on the
roadside and my former bosle zaa ordered
that thing destroyed so they he ordered
a truck to destroy it it was a famous
thing and it was rebuilt the next night
and I know for a fact that some of the
people that rebuilt that were some of
the same guys that you know were there
destroying it oh man that's pretty
symbolic so it's just it's not something
that be can be killed it's a part of the
the spirit of the people it keeps
getting destroyed by Ultra Christian
groups or Catholic groups and it keeps
getting
rebuilt personally for me as
a you know it's I don't believe that
there's a a Reaper skeleton in the sky
protecting me uh but I do believe in the
aspect of an ending you know and how
it's important to you know the ending is
important in all things and death should
be present in life and if it's not then
you're delusional about things so to you
it's a mechanism to meditate on death
once again yeah and you know having uh
my daughter who's eight uh view it as a
benevolent thing you know she's a kid
and she sees a skeleton that represents
death and shees do it's
like I think uh in a way Mexicans have
taken some of those aspects be a day of
the dead some of these practices related
to some occultism aspects around uh you
know St Judas you know San hudas St
Judas is the the patron state of lost
causes and it's one of the most
venerated sa in Mexico you know Jesus is
probably know the fourth or fifth you
pray to which is pretty funny ridiculous
but the reason why and this is something
I heard from somebody that uh was
actually we found him with a gun and on
his gun he had a s Judas
Effigy and uh he said well like why s
Judas SAS and he's like well he's the
last Saint you pray
to what do you mean well on the list of
saints you pray to he's the last one
because when you pray to Judas you might
get the other Judas on the line yeah
that's the last one you pray to that's
why he's like the Lost Cause of Saint
how I remember like even how we try and
bribe or like maneuver our way even in
spirituality in spiritual practices yeah
you know uh such a fascinating culture
that's unlike anything else and it's
right next
door and it's here too again I I I found
an altar in Connecticut which was pretty
fascinating there's one in
Arizona again it's one of the fastest
growing spiritual practices in in the in
not only in the US but like across
there's uh somebody from Russia reached
out there's an altar out there and
there's a group of people praying to
Santa Mar and I I've been posting and
writing a lot about it recently just
from my own experience and some of the
stuff that I gathered for myself and all
the way out there know people are
fascinated by something of those aspects
so I got to ask you about the dark turn
of of that spirituality or maybe you
will place this elsewhere but who was
adalo castano Al padrino this is a guy
that comes up in a in a period I think
this is he's he's at the that initial
period of cartel's this is before my
time and I've I've talked to some of the
people that were there for some of that
I mean he killed a lot of people he was
exposed and learned uh through his
family ties about some of the afro
Caribbean spiritualities that are now
also exploding as far as influences
across the world uh Latin America and
and in the US when I talk about that I
mean
Sania uh Palo mayombe uh basically some
old spiritual practices Coming Out of
Africa that uh utilize things like in
gangas which are basically spiritual
vessels that have to be loaded with
human remains in some cases
he was basically a spiritual
practitioner that certain cartel groups
would hire for them to curse the other
side to inew them with invisibility to
be able to transport their drugs or
protection spells and stuff like that he
was very successful at it apparently or
at least that is the experience of the
people paying for some of these
practices as his spells and his work
kept getting bigger and bigger and more
and more complicated the ingredients he
needed for these anganga or these spells
these cold that he would fill with
certain elements grew in
complexity till finally he said he
needed the brain of a highly educated
American of some sort which led to his
eventual downfall uh he was basically
responsible for abducting and murdering
a young American who was a university uh
college student I think I think you
think he
believed the so this guy's murdering
people to create what magical
potions vessels yeah vessels I think
yeah I think I think he truly believed
that he was uh capable of doing what he
was doing I guess and there was a
culture that's spiritually inclined that
kind of was on the same wave length as
him yeah it jbed I mean some of these
spiritual practices again there's
there's a ritualistic cannibalism done
by some of these cartel groups out there
was he involved in in cannibalism as
well he wasn't involved in cannibalism
that I know of but uh most of the things
that he was kind of known for was
basically requesting human body parts
for some of the spell Works he was doing
and then going to such a level where he
needed a specific brain or head of
somebody that was educated and American
so that kind of again led to his uh
eventual downfalls his Ranch was raided
they found the body parts inside of
these cauldrons that he was preparing
that's an interesting example of
somebody there's a cartel head uh
somewhere in central Mexico as well uh
elas loo was his nickname and he
basically forced the citizenship around
him to turn him into a saint so he like
he made a statue of himself he was very
big into uh Christianity specifically
kind of like the uh
Crusader you know mentality and all that
kind of IM vied himself in some of the
people that were around him uh with that
and there's still altars to his death to
him after he died he died two times one
time the government declared him that he
was killing a shootout and turns out he
wasn't dead so that was his first
miracle you
know and then when he was really dead uh
some of his people and his loyal
followers are were like gunpoint kind of
still forced to go and you know get
flowers and venerate this these effes
and statues of of him as a saint it's a
powerful weapon spirituality in Mexico
is a powerful weapon and you know the
Church Catholic Church in Mexico has a
pretty bad track record but as far as
them as far as that uh being used to
control populace and stuff like that um
and I think uh it's just another aspect
that is being exploited in Mexico with
in some communities as far as the
spirituality and the desperate need for
people to believe in
something and how that leads for some
people to go into some horrible
predatory behavior around it there a
fascinating Dynamic of play here so it's
not just the United States and Mexico
it's also China that you talk about
China is the primary source of fentanyl
in the world so fentanyl is an opioid
that leads to 70,000 plus or minus
overdose deaths in the US every year so
reading from Wikipedia quote compared
with Heroin it is more potent has higher
profit margins and because it is compact
has simpler logistic itics it can be cut
into or even replace entirely the supply
of heroin and other opiates what do you
think is important to understand about
fent as a drug there was a prescription
OB epidemic in the United
States that kind of went down or stopped
you know well you know still out there
but like the the epidemic specific
around it uh kind of petered out and
there was also marijuana
legalization happening at kind of the
same time period which uh you know
people talking about marijuana
legalization thought it was going to hit
the cartels in their pockets and it was
going to be like a you know a death blow
to to these criminal groups well now
there's uh illegal pot grows in the
United States being run by cartels in
federal land uh there's the legal pot
grows that are in some way shape or form
influenced and or run or owned by some
conal groups and that are kind of
utilizing that the the marijuana fields
in Mexico turn into
poppy fields once again the problem is
that some of these lands were leeched of
all the nutrients and you know they're
not as good as something you would find
somewhere in Afghanistan so the the the
yield and the quality of it wasn't as
strong as it could be so somebody
thought about the right idea of putting
fenel into the
mix and not only that but also figuring
out how to get fentin into Mexico um
Mexico has a giant pharmaceutical
industry that people kind of also don't
kind of know or factor into this
equation which leads
into the free ability of chemicals going
in and out of the country and legal
means of it happening right so not only
the precursors to make it but also the
chemist and the industry to create it in
Mexico as well some clandestine
factories of fentin have been found in
Mexico but realistically it's not needed
with the with the ways that the ports
and the borders are down in Mexico um
you started seeing an influx and a flood
of uh fenel into Mexico specifically
related to infusing it into heroin and
not only using that to feed local drug
markets but send it up into the United
States which started off this process
that we're kind of going through still
as these like similar
highs drug wise why do you
infuse I mean probably you're not the
right person have this uh biochemical
discussion of how I don't know about the
biochemical aspect of it but like
speaking to guys that do cha down there
that's that's that's what they call
heroin down there it's like a nickname
for it uh having them describe uh some
of the older stinkier darker heroin they
used to get before this whole fenel
thing and the highs they would get and
how much they would have to take versus
some of the stuff loaded with fenal that
they have to you know also there's more
higher potency yeah there's a higher
potency to it and also there's a you
know more money to be made easier to
transport yeah but
then is this how China starts becoming
part of the picture one aspect to it
that people kind of Miss is that you
know there's no Chinese cartel you know
there's no criminal Chinese organization
working
unseen getting around government
oversight in
China I don't know of any any such
organization that could be labeled as a
criminal organization is is uh deeply
integrated with the government so it's I
mean I've never heard of a giant
criminal Enterprise in China operating
so we have to assume then independent of
the the state I would I would have to
assume that some of these things are
happening with the knoow and inaction of
the government out there um when Co hit
there was a shortage of fenel on the
Northern side of Mexico specifically
related to the seen a la cartel these
guys were actually trafficking fenel
from the US down to Mexico to infuse
their product but not the new generation
cartel which operates out of uh the
central part of Mexico kma area which
have access to the seaside ports so even
during the shutdown they were getting
supplied which means to me at least for
anybody observing it that the supply
chain was not cut and whatever was
coming out of China
was being let out of China by by
whatever official channels would be able
to shut down or stop it I would love to
know the organizational structure the
governmental structure of
China how they enable
it because I can't
imagine at the very top there's like a
portfolio of things we're doing and one
of them isend those right I I I think
it's more in action or just the know no
how that it's happening but just like
hands off just let this I I don't know
if I were to understand how large
bureaucracies work it's looking the
other way yeah you are now seeing um
pill presses brought to Mexico
Industrial Level pill presses founding
clandestine
Laboratories where they're not only
infusing the the the the yields that
they're doing with fenel but also making
fake pain medication that is flooding us
markets everywhere that's
is that P medication or is that fenal
you know who knows you and that's how
you see a lot of people dying from ODS
that are supposedly taking pain pills
and that's not what they're doing uh so
the evolution right now you're seeing is
making
something look legit as far as pain
medication that it isn't and yeah I mean
fenel is everywhere they're infusing
cocaine with it I've been getting
stories from the US of people buying it
through Alibaba or just weird online
sources and coming in different packages
and just infusing it into into whatever
is out there it is killing off a whole
generation of
people um and it comes from one place or
it's manufactured somewhere where it's
being manufactured with the precursors
and the elements and knowhow that comes
from one
place well are we talking about China
talking about China because Mexico seems
to have what's the role of this is such
a complicated and how do you start to
talk about the drug war when more and
more and
more
China is the source of the
drug is there a drug war going on with
China there's probably an economic War
well you talk this another side to China
uh most and this is something that's
come out recently a few years back I
think but basically the ways you would
move money back into Mexico after you
have a load up here is that you would
give it to a Chinese money broker mhm
they would put it into the Chinese
banking system and it immediately would
just disappear from American eyes and
then another money broker in Mexico
would receive it through a money
transfer from China so China's
incredibly good at money
laundering that's another aspect to I
mean their banking system is invisible
to the US basically which allows which
allows the Monies to move from one point
to another so money Brokers and people
moving money for for for the groups down
there are Chinese so that's another
aspect element of China as far as it's
presence what's the role of intelligence
in all of this FBI CIA the Chinese
intelligence uh agencies right now
Mexico is going through
a a nationalistic Resurgence and uh
leftist
presidency which is not friendly to us
interest in a lot of
ways the US has had a pretty bad track
record when it with its foreign policy
in Mexico with a lot of damage being
done by the last president as far as his
rhetoric uh Donald Trump which has been
weaponized and utilized by the by the
left down down in Mexico so America is
not seen uh positively no every now and
then I post something about Mexico some
horrible thing happening down there it's
like why doesn't us send people down
there like aren't Mexicans looking for
like us intervention it's like no that
is beyond what anybody in Mexico would
want us specifically you see that the
sentiment out there they don't view the
US a as somebody that's going to come
and infect anything or somebody that's
going to help or as a friend uh with the
when the Ukrainian uh conflict
happened uh Mexico basically abstained
from saying anything which is a winking
a not to Russia it has openly been PR
Maduro and openly celebrated some of
these uh regimes be popping up uh across
Latin America you know which is that is
what people people voted for that is a
sentiment down there they're going
towards the left of the political
spectrum because of they've been
basically violated over and over again
by all these different presidencies that
have promised change brought corruption
with them and they are are choices so
this is this is the best we have right
now uh and all of the enemies of the
United States are taking full advantage
of that you know we recently had a
general kind of address a senate
committee hearing I think he was talking
about the prevalence of uh for forign
intelligence services in Mexico you know
and why that is well you know it has
Mexico has a lot of the minable lithium
on the planet underneath uh parts of it
specifically in the north it uh it is
going through a process they call it
transform the fourth the fourth
transformation is what the president of
Mexico calls it which is uh in a way
it's basically we're here to stay type
thing you know they just uh nationalize
mining lith
and taking control of that and using
that as leverage if if the United States
ever wants to go to Mexico it's probably
not going to be related to cartel issues
it's going to probably related to energy
I think you know so they're kind of
thinking ahead I guess well what about
also just imagine a
world where India and China are doing
fental trade with Mexico or whatever
transport imagine Chinese military moves
makes an agreement on NATO type of
agreement with Mexico that's pretty
possible uh again we're seeing a
militarized Mexico it's another aspect
of Mexico that again I I haven't seen
talked about a lot here in the US the
main promise that the current president
had was he was going to make the police
the federal police and the the the the
the security issues in Mexico Civ
civilian he was going to do exactly the
opposite as his main rival Filipe
Calderon the guy that started off the
drug war officially
and what does he do he dissolves the
civilian leadership of the federal
police dissolves the federal police
creates the National Guard which is a
military unit and he puts the military
in charge of that now the military has a
full Monopoly over all federal policing
they're when you cross into Mexico
you'll see them wearing these white
camouflage uniforms those are those are
National Guard people but they're
they're they're the military so now
you're seeing a militarized Mex go with
some of these leaks that happened during
the wakamaya the wakamaya leaks you're
now seeing that Mexico has been hosting
members of the Haitian military and
they've been training them up to go back
to police their
country that's not something that Mexico
has been known for to hosting other
nations and and and training them in
such a way so it's like an it's a it's
an interesting maneuver like Mexico has
been historically neutral about getting
involved in foreign conflicts um about
voting in resolutions as far as invading
or not invading or doing all these
things Mexico has been historically kind
of neutral when it comes to some of
these things and now we're training
foreign military uh forces to go and do
that role somewhere else um we have the
military building airports and building
infrastructure in Mexico and a lot of
their higher ups getting very you know
wealthy around it you know and they
basically have a monopoly
over you know who gets to have guns down
there you know there's one gun store in
all Mexico and it's run by the military
and the only way you can buy a gun there
is if you can buy a plane ticket to fly
there and have enough money to sustain
that uh that right or that privilege So
you you're you're seeing the military
not being in its traditional role of
just being the security Force now it's
policing it's involved in it's it's it's
getting involved in politics in a big
way you know it's um legislation that
has passed to keep it on the streets and
the policing role for more years now so
that should be looked at Closer by
anybody observing it uh from afar how
the militarization of Mexico and where
it's going because if you move towards a
world where a World War III happens it
feels like Mexico will be the
center because a hot War would be fought
on the ground and so you have a
very difficult parallel between Mexico
and Ukraine both don't have nuclear
weapons both have relationships so
Ukraine has a relationship or a pull
towards the European Union and NATO
Mexico at least currently has a kind of
slow pull towards China India
potentially and Russia and you have this
divide between power centers in the
world and in terms of just
imagine hundreds of thousands of Mexican
troops hundreds of thousands of Chinese
troops on the border on the US border
yeah on the Mexican side and also the
fact that that border doesn't mean
anything to any sort of conflict uh that
would happen regionally because that
that's a very easy to cross border
doesn't matter how many walls you put
across it people are already here uh
this is not going to be a war fought off
in some overseas place like you're not
going to this is something if if it
happens if destabilization is utilized
in Mexico to cause a conflict there and
it turns into a Vietnam or or proxy war
down there of A Sort which I think in a
way you're already kind of seeing some
of that uh through some of the conflicts
going on down there you have a a a new
generation cartel that is being fed
fenal from the Pacific side ports and
and suspiciously you know you you you
want to think that maybe it's favored by
a foreign government of some sort uh in
some way shape or form uh who knows and
then you have a historically in control
Cena law cartel that may or may not be
favor by the US in some way shape or
form you can imagine a further conflict
down there and people fostering it and
seeing the effects of basically setting
a fire on the feet of the United States
it's second largest consumer of us
products is
Mexico um the massive wave of
immigration that is going to be
basically weaponized uh you know you saw
the collapse of the border security
structure with the contingent of 3,000
Honduran Guatemalan immigrants in that
first wave of uh Caravans coming to
Tijuana you saw it was it was pretty bad
you know it was pretty bad and it could
have gotten
worse now what is going to happen when
that wave is no not no longer 3,000 but
you know a million people being
displaced by violence or
being in fear of whatever conflict might
originate down there and just that
massive wave of migration and move
like I think that that's that's an
interesting thing that people should
look at and you know how can you affect
change to try and stop some of the these
things that happen well let me ask you a
philosophical at a human level what do
you think about immigration a legal and
legal
immigration from the direction of Mexico
to the United States so we have an
estimated 11 million illegal immigrants
in the United
States and uh estimated 45 million legal
immigrants in the United States if you
things about that when Co had there was
no shortages of uh produce and the in
the supermarkets which means that I mean
illegal immigration is pretty much the
backbone of all uh produce and some of
the farming Industries out there you
know most of it so illegal immigration
and illegal illegal workers in those
fields are essential workers in a way I
think there's a weird relationship in
the United States with some of these
workers and how they're demonized and
how they're called criminals I think
there's there was a state out there that
passed uh anti- illegal immigrant uh
worker uh legislation the farmers had to
look elsewhere for for uh people to show
up to work in some of these fields which
basically caused millions of dollars
worth of losses for some of these uh
Farms um anywhere you go out there in
the United States you go into the
kitchens and there's going to be Panos
there you know French uh high level
French restaurants you'll see people
from pbla there that uh made their way
illegally and might have legalized or
regularized regularized their way into
the country or or in a sanctuary City uh
you go to the service industry hotels
you know those are the people changing
the blankets uh those are the people in
the
washrooms uh you have them doing jobs
that no American wants to do
realistically and they're everywhere in
this country and they are the backbone
of some of these industries that are
essential in this country do you think
there's a deep sense in which they are
American I think they're indispensable
and anybody that says they aren't is
delusional if you take every single
legal worker out of the industry in the
United States and send them back like
there's a movie out there called like
that the m a day without
Mexicans you
know everything would stop so the there
relationship is there uh people talk
about the history of SL slavery in this
country like it's a thing that in the
past uh there's endangered endangered uh
slaves in the country right now people
that are paying off their their people
Smugglers because they brought them into
this country and they haven't been able
to pay that fine or that fee yet and are
basically being held hostage by that
here in the United States so they're
slaves right now in the United States
you know people are talking about it's a
historical context what do we do about
it how are we supposed to think about it
we're going to have to rethink how we
look at immigration illegal or ille or
illegal or legal immigration from Mexico
and how we view Mexico as a as a foreign
country um your relationship to Canada
is one thing your relationship to Mexico
is another um the foreign policy towards
Mexico has been pretty nefarious in the
as far as the United States in a lot of
ways you you can go back there was a
student Massacre during the Olympics
and the president in turn at that time
was a c on the CIA payroll and it was a
counter communist uh type maneuver that
were doing down there but the there are
some bloody hands on on on the US side
of some of the things that have been
happening in Mexico as far as
destabilization and influencing and
meddling and foreign policy out there
most of the guns that are used down
there come from the US you know and
that's a that's another interesting
aspect and responsibility that people
shouldn't kind of think about up here so
there is on the drug war side a machine
that's fueling the drug war I mean
there's a giant drug habit up here you
know but also a governmental
intelligence and Military Support
through the sale of weapons I don't know
about the sale of weapons but you know
there's some
very we talk about poorest borders uh
coming up there's poorest borders also
going down you know there's there's a
flow of guns going down and
Munitions which again gun they don't
kill anybody by themselves you know they
put they get put in the hands of the
desperate that are trying to feed a
giant drug Market to the South to the
north you know Mexico has a saying
Mexico Mexico far from God but close to
the United States right uh and uh
there's uh there's definitely a
responsibility on both sides this is no
longer a Mexico problem a US problem
this is a regional problem and if we
don't think of it as a regional problem
with our brothers on the southern side
of it and with family we we're related
in blood there's like we are we
are Mexico and the United States are
like this but it's become popular in
politics they just throw a line right
and I think we need to get to a place
where we can figure out how to make
those connections and repair some of the
Damage Done by like just years and years
of uh bad policy on both sides of the
Border policy and rhetoric though we
talk about the way we think about it not
just the actual policy but uh seeing the
humanity and the people that are here
yeah it's an easy thing they're coming
to take our jobs is something you hear
uh there was a state out there that
passed some uh anti- U anti- legislation
as far as uh illegal workers on fields
and it led to massive losses nobody
wanted to show up for those jobs
basically they people would show up one
day and they would come back and they
were doing jobs that people just don't
want to do are they taking that from the
the locals or are they feeling an
essential role that we feel guilty about
and uh the redor around it is more about
guilt than anything um I I am an
immigrant myself you know I I've gone
through the experience of doing it
legally
and I've seen people not do it legally
and are in way better places than I am
basically uh by going around some of the
system um the system itself the
immigration system here in the US is is
there's something wrong you know it's
kind of broken um and people coming here
illegally are not only you know they're
looking for a better life for themselves
a better life for people this whole
aspect of vilifying them and they're
like ah there's a there's this immigrant
did this horrible thing this immigrant
did that horrible thing and uh people's
call saying you go back to your country
at the same time they go to a hotel
where they're all all the staff is from
that part of the world and they're here
irregularly or they go to the you know
the Whole Foods and they get some
produce there and it's picked by some of
the same people are vilifying again we
we need to kind of
like think about that and analyze that
for ourselves like yeah the idea of go
back to your country and finding the
other and having a disdain and a hate
towards the other ever since I had a
recent conversation with yay formerly
known as Kanye West I got to
hear a few things
from let's say unfriendly messages from
White
nationalists and I got to learn about
this world um I continue on the Journey
of learning which is the idea that the
United States this country should look a
certain way should have a certain skin
color should have a certain religion and
everything else is a pollution is a
poison to this I made it sound hateful
right now but they usually frame it in a
positive way uh like the the Purity I'm
sure Hitler also phrased everything in a
positive way especially in the 1930s
about the purity of Germany but the
reality of the United States and one of
the things that makes it uh at least the
ideal of the United States is the soup
the mix unlike So Many Nations I've I've
travel to there the the diversity the
good kind of diversity is what makes
this country great and uh there so I
think it's it needs to be based on
the accepting the different groups that
make up the United States versus trying
to purify it and I think Mexican
immigrants is just another flavor of
saying this is the other let's reject
the other yeah I I saw that interview by
the way that
was that you showed amazing restraint
and then an
interview my experience and I I came up
here again Trump was elected when I was
when I came up here so it was a weird
time for me as far as being an immigrant
and the Immigrant experience for myself
um by both being you know basically the
the bad the the the ones that were you
know talked about in that way and also
having a bunch of my friends who were
very conservative and you know wearing
some of those Maga hats around me and
like hey Ed like like well I mean you
know you know I'm a guest here so I have
to you know but uh it's a balancing hat
is what I've been looking at it as you
know on one side there's the woke side
of it which every everything goes and on
the other side is like let's hold on to
some of these things that make us who we
are on my end you know I want to get to
a place where I can smoke a joint uh
concealed carrier firearm be at my gay
best friend's wedding and I want the
government not to say anything about it
and I think there's Parts in the United
States hereo that kind of feel the same
way but there's extremes on both sides
they're pulling you to one side or the
other and I've seen more of the United
States than most Americans I'm in a
different state every weekend so I get
to go to I'm going to Tampa in a bit
tomorrow then I'm going back to
California then I'm proba Tennessee
later then Kentucky so I get to see all
types of of people and all types of
mentalities and and and ways that people
live and this country is more diverse
than most would think you know if you
only see it through the lens of
television or media what I keep seeing
out there that for me is like
a the reason I came here I guess and a
lot of a lot of the reasons that I feel
a vested interest in this country not
just because again my kid's American so
I have a very very big uh interest in
this country doing well but a thing I
see is the there's still the opportunity
and the ability to do something with
yourself and and and opportunities out
there for people like me that come here
with nothing I came here
with an experience spacee a truck and
some demons and yeah and a bunch of
demons in a bag and I'm here with with
you talking right now about some of
those experiences to another immigrant
another to another immigrant and both of
us are reaching people out there that uh
you know might not might haven't heard a
voice of people like us that come that
come here with our own bag of uh demons
but where else in the world can two
people like us have a conversation with
a with an audience like us and not be uh
shot outside of of of this because of
the stuff we're saying yeah listen to
with uh with with love and respect not
not uh
derision
um let me ask you for advice what what
would you say to Young
Folks wherever they come from so in high
school and college they're thinking of
how to live a life have a career they
can they can be proud of and uh
especially if they're struggling
especially if they're at a low Point
like you were when you came here a
travel travel is one of the biggest
things in the world that I would ask
people to kind of go out to uh see how
other people live don't go there with
your own preconceived notions or trying
to make people act like you act like go
out there and travel and actually
experience the world it doesn't have to
be another country uh going from uh
Tennessee to Seattle I know it's it's a
pretty interesting change of uh scenery
who's better at knife fighting just
kidding you don't have to answer that uh
Tennessee uh but but uh the uh uh
traveling is one and knowing how other
people live uh is one aspect of it that
would tell people uh it's risky it's
dangerous but that is part of the
journey is one of the things I would ask
people uh young people to kind of like
consider service is essential and it
should be at the basis of all of our
Lives service start there start with
service in any industry you're going to
go start your own restaurant you have to
work in the kitchen for service if
you're going to be a part a productive
member of this country service and I'm
not talking just about the military
because the military it's it's a process
and it's a lifestyle and it's a thing
for some people out there it's not even
a choice for other people if they want
an education and I get that community
service of any kind is an essential
thing the ability to go out there and
interact with the people that you would
normally not interact with uh homeless
population that you know that there is
in this country uh the the older
population that uh in Mexico our our old
die in our homes you know uh you know
but here you send them off somewhere
else to die which is an interesting
weird Detachment that I I've seen in the
US as far as how the elders are are cast
aside uh if I can say anything to young
people is to start figuring out our life
of service and that's going to that's
going to expose you to a bunch of
experiences to a bunch of people out
there you might not regularly kind of
meet and see and
realities
education is out there it is expensive
but I've sat through a bunch of really
expensive classes that I've managed to
see on YouTube and learned a lot from
them uh so education is out there but it
doesn't have to be as expensive as they
as they make it it's all about the
individual and what he does with that
education the dream is free and the
hustle is sold separately is something
else I watch somewhere uh online but the
ability to take uh take information
process it and use it uh we're expecting
everything to be safe processed and
given to us in a platter and taking that
and digesting and thinking that's going
to make us uh somebody that's going to
be productive or valuable in
society that's up to us the US talks a
lot about freedoms but doesn't talk a
lot about
responsibilities I think that's a big
part of you know take responsibility for
shit like I came here without anything
and the first thing I thought was I have
a responsibility for the people that
I've work with and the people that are
going through the same Pro the same
problems that I am how can I figure out
a way to help yeah the Dark Side of
thinking a lot about freedom is thinking
too
individualistically meaning thinking
about me how to optimize my situation
forgetting that the deepest growth you
can do as an individual is by taking
care of others by helping others by
being of service by being useful to your
community locally and then hopefully
also at scale and that's how how you
grow and that's responsibility of like
helping those around you there's an isol
relist aspect of culture now it's like
we we're separate there's a there's
almost like a spiritual or cultural
amputation in a way where you know when
when I was a kid the house with all the
bikes outside of it that that was where
all the kids were hanging out and now
everybody's on their phone you know the
separate houses I chatting on whatever
um there's an attachment to there that's
a it's a weird aspect to it and also the
the the aspect of
I'm I need to be safe I can't be
offended don't hurt me safe spaces this
is my right this is my this is my right
this is my reality you need to respect
it you respect is earned in my when
where I come from respect is earned um
there's freedoms but there's dangerous
freedoms those those any freedom you
have in Mexico is the dangerous freedom
in a way you know you can drive home
drunk in Mexico you can if you bribe a
cop on your way there and if you don't
die or crash into somebody else that's a
dangerous aspect of Freedom uh but
there's a responsibility to all of it it
it is a twisted responsibility and a
twisted way kind of talk about it and
describe it but I think the the aspect
of people screaming for Freedom up here
their rights or their privilege without
the responsibility you know you know
what are you doing for your community
you know what you're complaining about
this what are you doing about it you
know um another thing I've noticed in
traveling around it's scary is the whole
people people getting shouted down or
cancelled because of what they express
or say yeah some of the creepiest
experiences I've had in the US has been
through universities or just seeing
young people that have an opinion that
is completely outside of reality you
know um people telling me how things are
in Mexico because they learned it
through a college course yes and seeing
sons of immigrants
criticizing me because of my opinion of
Mexico or what I have to say about it
and you know if you want to encounter
the worst enemy of a Mexican is usually
a second third generation Mexican up
here that uh shouts you down for what
you're saying I mean in general
entitlement all those kinds of
things some of that comes with just
being young in general but yes
humility uh humility at a societal scale
would would benefit significantly espec
the young so I I would say some of the
service that you're speaking to is comes
with being humbled yeah and that that is
one of the best things you can do as a
young person whilst maintaining the
dream and the ambition humble yourself
to the reality of the world yeah one
small example a micro example of this uh
my
kid there was a homeless guy uh she was
out with with some with family members
this hom guy homeless guy showed up he
was erratic mental mentally Disturbed
created a scene she was upset there was
a little bit of trauma there she like oh
now all homeless people are
bad so with her she does art pieces
sometimes for me and helps me make
designs for the clothing brand that I
have and we take some of that money and
we buy socks and underwear you know and
I sometimes I have them in the car
sometime I drive around see somebody
needs something and I give it to her and
says you help me earn this money that's
going to help these people just give
them these and she's
like you know and a thank you and she's
like hey cool rolls up the window uh she
used to roll up the window really quick
now she doesn't they they cease to be
scary yeah because now some of them have
names now some of them know her name you
know when when they when she crosses by
there so she's there's contact there
she's more connected than I am in some
of these places now you know she has
Friends in Low Places and in high places
that comes later I guess but she is
learning about service she's learning
about not every not not everybody out
there is an enemy or bad or scary she
learning about
service and she's uh basically learning
that lesson that I got from my mom long
ago you know nobody's against you there
for themselves don't take anything
personal and if you're not doing
something for other people while you're
working then you're not doing
anything so when you were young you were
pretty sure you're going to die before
you're 30 yeah what's your relationship
with death today do you think about your
immortality are you afraid of it I'm not
afraid of it uh if anything I'm afraid
of
uh a
meaningless death or at least a mean a
meaningless uh walk towards it
I'm afraid of losing use of my legs I
guess I'm afraid of uh not being able to
go out there and do things anymore I'm
afraid that I'm not physically capable
of doing the job that I used to
do uh so if anything I'm afraid of
Stillness you know it's something I
always quote a lot in my writing
Stillness is death so you always want to
be challenging yourself moving growing
like you're traveling so you get all
these experiences and filling your life
with all these experiences and if it
ends when it ends you're ready for it
yeah I'm not afraid of the end the
ending is important in all things first
time I got a promotion I got two silver
coins hand it to me MH here's a silver
coin and this is another silver coin and
they he said I'll give you the the other
one when your job ends you know it
depends on you if you wanted to have it
over your eyes or in your pocket right
and uh the lesson there is that uh you
know this job you're getting it's pretty
cool and you're going to be in charge of
all these people and it's pretty
important important but it's uh going to
end so you always have to the ending is
important in all things um if we don't
keep that in mind then if you think
we're Immortal and nothing's going to
end I think that's a there's an atrophy
a spiritual atrophy in
that for the sake of spiritual
flourishing this conversation too must
come to an end so I think a beautiful
way to end it and I'm a huge fan of
yours thank you for being a man with a
life well- lived and for talking with me
today as an honor man it was an awesome
conversation thank you for having me on
thanks for listening to this
conversation with Ed Calderon to support
this podcast please check out our
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me leave you with some words from
albino's character and Scarface Tony
Montana you don't have the guts to be
what you want to be you need people like
me so you can point your fingers and say
that's the bad
guy thanks for listening and hope to see
you next time