Kind: captions
Language: en
I have anal beads that are communicating
with stockfish via Bluetooth we'll get
to that if you cheat
you play God
you decide when the game is over you can
fake bad moves
you can fake everything you can even if
you're cheating quote unquote the right
way you're gonna lose plenty of games
to avoid getting detected what's the
probability that Hans cheated over the
board against Magnus in St Louis I think
day by day
the evidence is slowly starting to show
more and more that
he's cheated it like like how Magnus
said more than he said and more recently
the following is a conversation with
Levy Rosman also known as Gotham chess
he's a professional chess player and
educator I highly recommend you check
out his YouTube channel called Gotham
chess
this is a Lex Friedman podcast to
support it please check out our sponsors
in the description and now dear friends
here's Levy Rosman
you're known for being able to guess
people's ELO rating so what do you think
just by looking at my face deep into my
eyes
uh what's my ELO rating
here I'll help you I'll I'll do E4 for
the listener
I actually read that stockfish prefers
E4 does it really
I actually didn't know that because it
maximizes the number of tactical options
so that makes sense the variety answer
is 3400 which is I believe stockfish
uh you guessed people's ELO chest rating
what what's that take how hard is it to
do that and like how would you actually
do that like what are telltale signs of
red flags about a person at different
ratings
is there something you look for yeah I
think you can separate it something like
the very first the zero to about eight
nine hundred for simplicity's sake I'm
gonna use the trust.com rating system
because leeches is slightly different it
tends to go to 300 points higher than
chess.com sometimes even four or five
hundred points higher but then it
catches up they catch up around 22 2300
I would say what's chess.com what's lead
chess
can you like yeah so explain what the
difference is and what they are they're
two chess websites uh good starting
point yes chess.com is it it has
obviously the free option where you can
play games you get some sort of puzzles
every single day you get some sort of
lessons every single day but then they
have tiered memberships where you can
pay annually or per month that you can
unlock all the other features
and like what like for training for like
for training puzzles and all that kind
of yeah they have unlimited puzzles but
they also have their biggest selling
point for sure is like a dedicated game
review that it's like very flashy and
sophisticated and the coach will
literally tell you what you did wrong
every single moment the computer
evaluated a mistake but the most
important thing that they have is they
offer International masters Grand
Masters the opportunity to make video
Lesson libraries which hundreds of hours
of anything I can even learn some stuff
on there probably I have anal beads that
are communicating with stockfish via
Bluetooth yeah we will get to that yes
we will get to that uh it's epic it's
actually scary how many people think
that's a real thing by the way which is
the danger of the internet but we yeah
we will get into that but I tend to
believe that people believing a thing
that's hilarious
at scale will make that thing a reality
I will deal on on this I think people
manifest the meme the meme becomes real
so that but that that's I in all walks
of life I I think there is something
about humor
sort of uh being uh
why doesn't why did I I was gonna well
was I I was going to say is I feel like
humor becomes a lubricant for the
trajectory of human civilization and I
don't know why the word lubricant went
into my head which means I understand
yeah but it's very Freudian anyway so uh
to zero to 900 if you're a 1300 player
you were saying if you're not good at
end games you don't understand how to
convert positions that have seven or
eight pieces left on the board you don't
know when you're supposed to activate
your king you don't know how a bishop
outplays a knight with just several
pawns on the board those are all very
important things because it's not just
about
knowing the theoretical end games like
some positions in chess are literally
solved if I showed you a position I
asked what's the evaluation and how do
you win it there's a technique you're
supposed to know that technique and the
coaches on chess.com can help or no yeah
so these lesson libraries it's not like
a live lesson it's pre-recorded training
position walk you through it and then
there's a dynamic Factor as well where
you can practice you can practice the
theoretical and you can practice a
practical game where there's no set
format to do something it's just based
on your previous experience basically
leeches is their entire thing is it's an
open source website that tries to be as
free as possible and operates totally on
donations they don't have any
advertisements they don't have which is
weird because normally in big
competitive settings it's all
capitalistic you have one big entity and
another big entity and they're both
for-profit but in this case the big
argument is well they offer a lot of
things for free you can analyze your
games for free you can you can go in
into leeches's lessons library and do
things for free the comparison that I
always make is chess.com is basically
like having a good personal trainer and
having someone to help you at the gym
leeches says you have to do the all the
stuff yourself so you can combine
YouTube with leeches No One's Gonna
really point you in the right direction
you got to go fully explore on your own
if you want to do it you can I also like
to say can I make a controversial joke
yes okay
Ardent Alicia supporters are like very
angry uh you know only a vegetarian or
or vegan folks because they will tear
you apart and try to convert you as much
as possible did you just did you just
point a large number of of uh haters
onto this uh very podcast is this what
just happened no is there like several
people that were very upset at you right
now no and throwing things okay no
that's always the joke that I've made
because if people have chess.com and I
love all people but I'm just saying
chess.com
patrons do not try to actively convert
folks only chess folks on leechas are
like
you know there's a memechess.com
it started at Lee chess started started
somewhere in red on Reddit Anarchy chess
kind of a oh so leeches is a little bit
of an anarchist organization would you
would you go as far as to say there are
terrorist terrorist extremist
organization
are we going there for legal reasons
that's uh I thought leeches has like
really good analysis like somebody
does it have an engine for analysis of
like games or is that is that an open
source thing that like they both do they
both use stockfish 15. okay and then the
rest is the interface around stock
stockfish that shows it's tough It's
it's the life so chess has a live server
where you and I can play a game against
each other we just both seek and if we
have the same rating we have the same
criteria yep we'll play a game but
there's also reviewing your own games
there's an opening database so you can
see what the most popular Trends are so
leeches is great like I'm I'm sponsored
by charles.com and I will openly say
that but you can't have you're deeply
biased yes okay but I'm also
complimenting the competitor okay but uh
can you play games on leeches or is it
just for analysis yeah yeah you can yeah
so it's the same exact thing so they're
like legitimately competitors not
exactly the same thing but they have the
they're trying to match for features but
you're saying lead chest is more chaotic
and then chess.com is more like
professional yeah I don't know I don't
know if it's chaotic I just know that
it's uh you have to No One's Gonna Hold
Your Hand if you
if if you go to to leeches you
absolutely can you can play games you
can analyze your games but you have to
discover yourself the whole point of
shells.com is to make the journey as
simple as possible uh
but I also firmly believe you can't have
any sort of growth in chess without a
chess.com or a chest 24. what time oh
what's chess 24. so just 24 was another
live server with some lesson libraries
and so on but uh they were I think the
process was they were bought by play
Magnus
so let's play Magnus play magnets that's
Magnus Carlson's thing he doesn't own it
he owns some stake in it I think nine or
ten percent they owned a bunch of Chess
companies including chess 24 but now it
seems like they're either merging or
basically getting acquired by chess.com
got it and then play Magnus it's an app
also where you can play Max different
levels but there's also the educational
stuff yes okay the for-profit chess
companies make the option for Grand
Masters to make a living to make chess
and esport yeah leeches is great it
doesn't put on any events there's no
commentary so you you can have both in
theory and probably some controversy is
good does chess.com like sponsor you to
help you out in some way like what's the
connection between your videos and
streams and so on in chess.com like are
they supporting people in that way or no
my content they don't necessarily I just
make whatever I want like I don't have
I'm not sense like if they do something
stupid I will call out their leadership
it's not like but uh I to have the logo
up like in my YouTube videos yeah that's
just that kind of stuff yeah so anyway
back to uh I mean that was really
helpful I was confused about all that
um the
guessing people's rating
so the thing you mentioned about the end
game if you don't know what the hell
you're doing with the end game what does
that mean about you writing if you don't
know how to finish with just a few
pieces on the board you could be my
rating
and game is tough that's the
self-deprecating humor we tuned in for
uh games are hard man yeah you can't
have there's a reason Magnus is the best
it's because seven hours into a game
when everybody's given up he's still
squeezing juice out of the fruit so
that's the way I would describe it so
that's not good source of information if
you no within the first 15 moves
generally you can tell because you can
tell how well they played the opening so
how well they knew
what they were supposed to memorize what
they were supposed to play and then how
they react to peace interactions
so if they are faced with a move that a
more advanced player would deal with
very swiftly because there's kind of a
natural response that gives you
information if they move their King when
they're in check when they didn't have
to that's a massive giveaway
some people just think oh I'm in check
so I have to move my king okay so it's
like how direct the response of your
play is to the danger so like if you're
more moving like multiple pieces at a
time meaning like you're moving like the
pieces are like tied together in
interesting ways and then okay
okay like what about like uh what about
the opening can you tell also because a
lot of people can memorize openings
right yeah but
takes two to tango
so you could memorize a bunch of stuff
but if you're 900 and I'm 900 your
rating is fluctuating all over the place
in the in this podcast I feel yeah Solve
13 900 yeah you can memorize things I'm
gonna play some crap and
you can't play the way you you memorize
them because I have to respond to you in
certain ways so you will either respond
the way you think you're supposed to
respond and that will probably be
incorrect or now you have to figure out
how to deal with the fresh position oh
so the 900 will reflect itself in both
cases yeah yeah I wonder if actually so
uh do you know your current rating or no
or your top rating what was your topic I
know both my current
ELO like over the board now is 23 20 my
Peak was 24 30. oh cool so can you play
like a 900 player like can you
force yourself yeah so you can like
given that you've guessed a lot of Elo
ratings can you kind of emulate that
it's kind of an interesting question
yeah yeah of course before I was doing
YouTube and twitch I was teaching kids
so I had to not only did I have to play
at their rating I also had to play and
sometimes even behave and explain things
in a way that the kid could understand
so absolutely yeah I think that's what
contributed to the growth of the channel
frankly I kind of understood how
beginners thought about the game so yeah
you did
um you taught people chess you coach
people for for many years I guess in New
York yeah New York what did you learn
about the way people learn from that so
like
how how do people that were successful
at getting good at chess quickly
what were the some of the commonalities
some of the patterns that you saw
obsession
yeah what does Obsession look like
I would say it's Obsession and also
and also love of the game so if you're
bored you don't want to watch a show you
want to boot up chess.com or leeches
just for just so I don't get flamed by
any anyone in the audience uh and you
just so you're saying Lee chess people
are the ones that would attack
aggressively they're the kind of
probably the chest 24 people oh that's
another
so there's nothing I didn't know I
thought chest 24 was part of the
chess.com well now yes uh cult or tribe
or whatever terms we want to use no I'm
sure there's even more places to play
live there always have been more places
to play live but uh just like I'm leech
has dominated
no it's just 24 is this is rough for
live interface of course they have good
courses and everything but yeah I got it
I got it and some are even good people
or whatever yeah that quote goes okay
like uh Obsession that means
the way they look at the board when
they're bored
how quickly do they return to the chess
board that kind of stuff just like how
many hours a day they want to spend yes
they spend and wants to spend some kids
definitely have a talent
of course there's this eternal debate
Talent versus hard work
I don't necessarily know if it's a
talent for chess specifically but it's a
talent for
I'm sure there's some sort of spatial
visualization in your mind your
you start picking up what squares are
controlled by your pieces and opponent's
pieces faster your memory is much
stronger so you you don't just learn
openings like we discussed you learn
literal patterns such as oh I remember
this from two tournaments ago I remember
this from a game I played just yesterday
and you just keep playing and playing
and playing but I think the one
commonality I think I've seen in all
kids it's uh Obsession you have to play
a lot and I've seen kids who are
brilliant kids like if you give them a
page of tactics puzzles they saw faster
than anybody they can pick things up
here super fast they're a pleasure to
teach they go to a tournament disaster
they can't handle the anxiousness they
can't handle that silent face-to-face
war with
another six-year-old they can't even
handle there's also trash dog that's
like one sentence by a kid can throw off
your prize student and I've seen kids
just totally disintegrate I've seen also
my students bully other kids corn my
student wasn't that strong
but they're verbal Warfare which is not
allowed but goes unnoticed it's not even
verbal Warfare like just going like like
a little little like like facial
expressions you would make at the board
hey I didn't even think about that
that's pretty creepy
the intensity not creepy that's not the
right word but there's an intensity in
that silence over the board
like you can probably hear stuff like
just like it's super quiet it's like a
library yep and then
there's just a tension that builds
you can hear the breathing yeah and at
the highest level
both sides are involved in a battle that
they both foresee 99 of the time that's
the scary part is that you both see the
exact same thing it's very rare you play
Move It I didn't see it it's that I
misevaluated it I saw the move could be
played but I missed something three or
four moves deeper you play that move and
suddenly you're excited and I'm nervous
but all of a sudden you make an
inaccuracy and now the tide shifts right
we could be on totally different planes
throughout the game or we could be on
the same plane throughout the game so
it's it's really fascinating it yeah so
your thought is when you see a move that
to you seems sub often when you start to
think
what was that
we start to try to make sense of that
did you miscalculate or did they
miscalculate
what isn't that what Magnus is really
good at is taking people away from like
making sub-optimal moves to take him
away from
the known
uh openings or is that unfair to say
yeah he gets
part of his really dominant reputation I
think from
not letting people get into Ultra
theoretical positions
he just won this tournament this online
tournament and he said he had a young
player strategy he had an anti sorry a
anti-young player strategy what's that
mean it means that by move seven or
eight you go to the database no games
the kid is on their own they have to
swim on their own yeah and they have to
deal with the Strategic complexities of
the position which he just he gets and
he might get from just an enormous
database within his brain of historical
games that have similar structures or
just sheer Genius Like We we won't know
yeah it's a mix of the two for sure the
younger you are you can't remember a
game played in 1951 and some bar in the
Soviet Union but he does because he read
a book once or a magazine once and he
just remembers just remembers he
remembers the structure which it's just
it's not fair it's crazy right what do
you think makes them if we can sort of
link on it what do you think makes them
so good I think it's the memory and I
think it's
he just seems to get the game better
than anybody else that's the best way I
I can describe it in sports you have
reaction time you have strength you have
but also as he's now evolving it's
stamina
so there have been games that if you put
two other 2750 rated players or world
top 10 players they would have drawn the
game the game would have ended the game
nobody would have won it
you put Magnus as one of the aggressors
in that game
suddenly the chance of Victory doubles
from five percent to ten percent weird
what's that about because it was a game
six against netball league right uh
isn't stockfish say that it's supposed
to be a draw so 0.00 does mean a draw
sometimes but other times it means since
the joke I always make it means the
stockfish is out for a smoke break it
can you explain the joke and can you
explain 0.00 yes so when so stockfish
will show an evaluation
which determines whether the position is
equal slightly better for one side
slightly better for the other side or
completely winning
you can
0.00.2 minus 0.2 that's all within a
balance you can say okay black has a
little sprinkle of activity something
white has that but if it's zero zero
zero
it could be literally a dead draw
meaning theoretically just impossible to
win but oftentimes what that means is
the smoke break joke is Cypress doesn't
know there is so much complexity within
the position the combinations of
different moves that are acceptable and
okay it cannot evaluate correctly
wow so even the end games are tough for
stockfish which is why Magnus won that
game because there was practical value
remaining it wasn't a dead draw he
continued to ask questions over the
course of six or seven hours he would
sacrifice a pawn he would sacrifice
another Pawn to damage the structure
evaluation stayed the same
because a machine could stop him
but not young and that was one of my
favorite re that that game ruined my
whole day by the way it destroyed
because yeah I made so many plans that
day it completely ruined my day but it
was a very worthy recap you were just
all in you watched that whole game I
watched the whole game and the world
championship was a crazy time because I
wanted to be first with the recap video
but I also wanted to be best with the
recap video so I spent all the hours of
the games watching all the live
broadcasts and getting all the
information all the variations and
trying to put that into the recap it was
it was a lot of fun it was a huge
adrenaline done when it was all over so
just for people who don't know that's
the most recent World Championship
um so you had a I mean that that was a
draw after draw after dry after dry yeah
and it was It was kind of boring in that
way or maybe
our draws
is there like non-boring Parts within
the draw to you when you were like just
studying it carefully for me yes
for the average viewer no
that's the truth especially when the
game itself is not that exciting when
Magnus plays a strange move on move nine
or ten that hasn't ever been played
and then Jan has to try to exploit it
and he fails and no attack builds up and
they Shuffle their pieces for three
hours my favorite thing is when the
commentators like I don't know why he
did that I wonder why he did that like
yeah when the commentators are confused
that's my as a as a person who's just a
spectator just like
that's that's interesting because then
you the most interesting part is about
listening to the commentators who I
guess themselves might be Grandmasters
uh all yeah they are trying to I guess
just like nepo just like Magnus tried to
figure out what's the idea here what are
you thinking that's cool that's that's
that's an interesting part of the game
but other than that
it's it seemed um
yeah I was sure this is just gonna keep
being a draw especially in that
situation so it's almost it seems almost
remarkable that his uh Magnus was able
to put pull out a win in game six and
after that
at least Magnus said that that that ends
it because now Knapp was gonna have to
take more risks and that opens it up to
Pure chest and then
um who was it uh Steve Prefontaine said
like whenever it's whenever there's a
race is down to like pure guts then
that's when I win it there was also a
conversation about eons
first half second half in any tournament
in the first half he's just brilliant on
fire you could even say he was out
playing Magnus but the entire
conversation before the match was young
slows down and at the first sign of a
loss or a setback
the match might fall apart and that was
the worst way to lose there was
literally no worse way and it just got
worse from there and there I mean it was
one move mistakes and
but he's back
won the candidates again he's going to
play for the world championship so who
you got who who you got what is what is
this swing terminology
can we like somehow edit that into a
more sophisticated with the British
accent type of phraseology okay who do
you think will win that match
I think it's 55.45 but I don't know
so it's close it's very close Okay you
can make both cases you could say ding
you could say Jan has been here before
you can say to the world championship
stage he knows what it's like to have a
training camp and so on and so forth his
playing Styles very but you can also say
dingly ran is one of the most
stable
unemotional chess players and ding
oftentimes goes from down to up so in
the candidates he lost to yawn in the
very first game a 14 Round tournament he
got demolished in the first game I'm
sure he was suffering from jet lag the
flight he he came to Spain like two days
before the games began which was crazy
to me and he got second place by the end
there's chances of finishing in the top
two were like two percent after that
first round game people wrote him off
completely so he doesn't go from top
down he goes the opposite way and if he
loses he might come back but the truth
is I don't know the truth is it's it's
going to be an interesting match and
it's also disappointing we're not going
to get Magnus in it yeah what do you
think about him stepping away from uh
the world championship are you a
romantic about the World Championships
no I'm not a romantic about anything I
don't think I I can't imagine what dark
that went dark quickly I don't think I'm
sophisticated enough to be a romantic I
think I uh you know I I taught chess and
now I make YouTube videos I'm not
qualified on the subject of Romanticism
but I you don't think it's a beautiful
game chess yeah no I think I I think it
is a beautiful there you go I got you
yeah is that is that considered being a
romantic yeah I was seeing the beauty in
the you can be like Bach and seeing the
math and the music so you can see the
beauty
the magic I think I see beauty in
certain types of chess for sure not in
all chess so I'll partially romantic
part-time romance yeah yeah so what I
mean what what do you feel about Magnus
stepping away from the world
championships
disappointing but understandable can you
still man his case what what's what's
understandable about it to you
I don't think it's as prestigious as it
could be I don't think the world
championship yeah yeah why does Magnus
still sign everything as world champion
then that's a good point that that he
did just put out a statement and he did
but he does it everywhere else too does
he really yeah like world champion right
world champion I don't know World
Championship World chess champion maybe
it's just because he he he wanted but he
thinks that the journey to the top ones
again to maintain the status quo has
lost its appeal well you know what the
example that I like to I like to make I
I'm a big fan of UFC so we've never
really seen with the exception of George
St-Pierre
walking and and could be but khabib was
kind of a different story walking away
from
a belt at the absolute Zenith of their
career but also in the UFC Champions are
extremely well taken care of and the
Champions have some of the best some of
the best lives of course you can argue
not all Champions you can say some of
the lower weight divisions yes but what
I'm saying is a lot of them get all the
sponsors they get massive massive
paydays they're International
celebrities I don't think chess has that
in fact the world championship of Chess
prize fund has not changed much in like
40 years so you could probably make more
money on uh on YouTube yes playing
randos not randos but other having fun
and playing challenging really
challenging games playing other super
Grand Masters like and ad hoc events uh
or maybe a little bit organized events
but not the world championship yeah and
still and still have a lot of fun make a
lot of money
um get everybody excited all that kind
of stuff yeah so for Magna specifically
and we're using him because he's the
world champion if you tally if he wins
every tournament that he plays in over
the course of a year which is really not
even that crazy of an estimate because
that's really how it seems sometimes
yeah I don't know how much money that is
I haven't tallied but if he dedicated an
entire year to being managed on social
media and doing various things and
growing all his Brands and getting
sponsor deals I think he would make five
times more than being the world champion
which is crazy yeah but money isn't
everything I know that's that's totally
available dedicate their whole life to
winning the Olympics the Olympics is a
funny it's an interesting one too
because
like I didn't even watch the the
Olympics as carefully as I usually do
this year yeah yeah neither it's it's
really strange I'm not sure why that is
when during covid
I'm not sure that's that was weird I
don't know if it's losing its magic part
of it is also the people that own the
Olympics and the way they distribute it
they make it a little bit more difficult
to watch like it should in my opinion it
should all be just available on YouTube
and
uh easily accessible it's like the
difference between
like uh SpaceX and and uh some other
organ like even NASA just SpaceX is
better at streaming their launches and
commentating them and it they've made
NASA better as well but just like the
ability it sounds ridiculous but
making it more frictionless for people
to watch get excited to share all that
kind of stuff yeah like I'm not exactly
sure where
the magic
like balances between the The Classy
traditional World Championships and the
kind of
dramatic exciting streamer world
and it feels like for for the World
Championships to be relevant they have
to find that balance
yeah well this recent one had
I was it's pretty good commentating yeah
no I I'm not I'm not even necessarily
talking about myself there was a lot of
that was the worst part for me
you did amazing yeah I appreciate that
it was a lot of uh I was a big arms race
so every
major chess platform try to get one
super Grand Master
you name it they were they were
basically involved and to to go back to
that point yeah I the big question is
money and if if Magnus is not motivated
by money if the price went for the next
World Championship was 10 million
dollars would he play it if he says no
Then it must be something else it must
just be a matter of
something's not worth it it's not worth
you got to take him with his word and
his word is like
there's too much stress to the little
sample play yeah like I want to play
many more times yeah he wants to play
more he wants to kill him yeah exactly
yeah more shorter games like where you
can
um increase the possibility of Pure
Chess
whatever the heck that means if we can't
go back to the first carp of Kasparov
match which they have to stop due to
health concerns I mean the guy went down
five nil and it was first to six wins
and draws didn't count so draws didn't
amass to the total score there was no
best of system so what happened there
the match went something like seven
eight months Kasparov started making a
comeback after being down five nothing
he was five three and they called it off
they called it off they said both
players are in poor health conditions
because far of stormed down yelled that
this is a farce and but the match was 50
games long it would even more maybe I
made a video and I don't even remember
how many games it was it was so long can
you imagine Bobby Fischer wanted
something almost as extreme draw Stone
Calendar's first one to ten wins and if
it's nine nine
the world champion retains his title so
you have to beat the world champion 10-8
that's the only way so you don't like
that
but I it's just grueling I don't know
maybe I like it for the YouTube Recaps
but do I like it for the players do I
like it for general public no sure yes
three four hours right you imagine your
favorite tennis match was six months
long
what are we doing yeah yeah there's
still a magic to the world championship
I wish they could make it some
interesting
they make it work somehow
but Matt I think Magnus is really
challenging fee day and everybody else
to step up and try to figure that out
which is great ultimately
um who would you say is the greatest of
all time
can you can you make the case imagine
casparov can make the case for casparov
can you make the case for Magnus Carlsen
uh Bobby Fischer
tall
in my opinion you can make a case for
Magnus Gary and Bobby Fischer I'm not
one of the folks that's like I mean
capablanca was brilliant you can argue
steinits was brilliant but as
uh I think I think it was it's probably
Kasparov and Magnus has a chance to
overtake it
so the longevity is really important to
you when you're thinking about this yes
I think so I think Magnus is very very
close like it's it's extremely close
what would be the magic
you gotta get that sixth one
I'm just kidding so the World
Championships matter
it's kind of like basketball right Rings
it's all comes down to how many rings
did this person win what about well
basketball doesn't have this the number
of years is number one
right like uh rating sorry yeah uh like
there's a there is a which is what
Magnus really likes is like there is a
nice system of raiding of who is ranked
number one and has to do not with some
championships or low sample tournaments
it has to do with General game after
game after game helps estimate more
accurately the ELO rating so yeah he's
been world number one for I think 11
years right which is still less than
because Gary was world number one for 20
years yeah which is which is quite wild
but still lower rating I think than
Magnus now right yeah I think rating in
general has sort of allegedly it got
inflated yeah is that true is this true
to that I think so I don't I can't speak
to how exactly it happened but it also
happens online if you go back just three
or four years I think some of the best
Blitz players on let's say shows.com
were 27 2800 and now they're 3200 I
think it's just sort of what happens but
I
I don't exactly know uh I will mention
that there was a very strange change not
exactly sure when the year was in fide
so over the board chess where if you
were
under the age of 16 or 18 years old one
of those two
and you were below 2300
okay your rating change Factor was three
to four times higher
so just imagine that means Magnus has a
rating change factor of of let's say one
I have a reading change Factor also of
one anybody over the rating 2400 has the
same rating change Factor uh what is uh
the rating change Factor so if you win
yeah there's a formula and basically
let's say at the very base level five
point change if your rating change
factor is one you beat somebody you gain
five points
those kids who were under 18 and under
2300 the rating change Factor was four
so their ratings were going out four
times higher and four times like up and
down compared to normal folks and there
was a there was one teenager in the US
in particular who in one month
played a bunch of tournaments with his
rating change Factor
and became nearly rated 2640 which is
top 50 in the world it was just a random
teenager from the United States he
became a grand master ultimately but he
bled like 90 points down because his
rating was so inflated and this the k-40
exists now I mean you have many kids who
out of nowhere 2100 2100 2400 after you
know one good month
like what so that's interesting that's
like uh similar to like how Tick Tock
inflates your virality
early on doesn't
well yeah like I I and well at least the
rumor is like they want you to get
engaged and I thought there was even
artificial likes and so on that they
want you to get that dopamine addiction
so maybe they want to throw you if
you're really passionate about Chess
they want you to throw you to the Sharks
by artificially inflating you inflating
your rating and maybe that gets you into
the game much more intensely Maybe
fair I wonder how many like backdoor
feeding meetings there are with cigars
and so that that was uh the factors
determined by who who does the the ELO
rating who changes this stuff yeah
who knows it's probably those Lee chess
anarchists exactly I think they wanna
I think they wanna they wanna stay away
from that stuff but so there's a guy
named Hans Neiman yep
and uh he beat Magnus Carlsen recently
yeah it has been already what is it was
it August September 4th oh it was
September
so he beat him twice right recently once
is the allegations
the by the internet that Hans Neiman
cheated and then the second time
uh Magnus played a few moves and
forfeited
and resigned well there's actually so
there's three okay sorry no no yeah can
we go through this yes yes yes so they
play a live Esports event in Miami
Miami Beach yes Eden Rock that's where I
actually interviewed Magnus yeah that's
where that was
Oh by weird circumstance I found myself
in Miami unrelated to chess event
and uh yeah it was a very dramatic event
for me for various reasons one of which
the camera stopped working halfway
through the conversation so I thought
yeah I saw that I also side note I
really respect how you write comments
pin them at the top you add time stamps
you're like very true professional I am
the complete opposite on YouTube when
I'm off the camera so I dig in the mud
from when I started on YouTube in 2020
I in June like May June 2020 I had no
subscribers so I got to a million in a
year I had a lot of people analyzing my
every move all of my small flaws and I I
love getting hate comments
because you pin you pin is it the comet
of Shame that's what it was it's been
named over the years by by folks I never
called it that but yeah it's it's pin of
Shame and it's a shame yes it's been
tough because now people pretend to
write hate comments just to get
attention so like anything the public
ruin the good thing
but it started that way it started with
people just shredding me to bits calling
me spin-offs of this and that and um
I think I'm I'm a human more than I am a
Creator an influencer an attention
seeker like I'm just a person so to me
even at the size of 1.6 million
subscribers now September 2022 I don't
understand that I've gotten big and that
I shouldn't do this stuff and that I
should be Beyond it or I shouldn't be
checking my social media as much as I do
and interacting one-on-one I'm still
very much a human being and my guilty
pleasure my way of killing time if I'm
not laying on the couch and playing some
jazz Blitz Games off stream is I just
interact with people who say nice things
and who say horrible things and I really
like to get into the head of the people
who say the terrible things now
sometimes you can sometimes they are
truly Trolls but sometimes people just
they just they just really hate you so
what's the successful what's a
successful interaction with the person
that's uh trolling you what's like at
the end of that Hero Journey that you
were uh yeah partaking in what's what's
like what's the top of the mountain look
like is the troll conquered and broken
mentally not no not meant I don't wanna
I don't want to defeat I I honestly
sometimes somebody writes a very long
comment I'll just I'll respond with a
question mark
yeah oh so you're you're you see each
other's like like a brother and sister
you're gonna travel together on this
journey of deep meaning like
introspection what does this mean yeah
I've had people write
I can't quote now but something about my
Persona my behavior this and that and I
just like respond to them and I say hey
it sounds crazy that a large Creator
might do something like this but this
kind of goes back to you you speak to
folks on a very respectful way if you
make a mistake you completely own up to
it so I have this sometimes these
one-on-one interactions where I say I
think you're reading too much into this
I think you're kind of you don't
understand maybe some of my humorous
sarcasm as such so you form this opinion
that I'm this kind of a person this and
that and now you're sort of anything I
do you're trying to attach to that
reasoning and here you are writing this
lengthy essay of why nobody should watch
my content and sometimes people go you
know what I think you have a point maybe
I should relax a little bit yeah I would
love I would love to sort of interview
and understand
the lives of the the folks that post
that kind of stuff I mean they're human
beings they have interesting Journeys
also I think they often don't realize
I think they don't realize their comment
will be read by anybody especially you
maybe they think like they also don't
realize you're a human being I feel like
that's yeah it's it's so interesting to
watch it
like uh some guy because I posted on
Twitter for like a minute uh that I'm
talking to you and asking for questions
I I deleted that tweet because
95 of the people were talk about
cheating talk about the cheating all
right I got it thank you this is not
going to be helpful at all so I was like
all right but in that time like there's
one comment which I'm it's hilarious to
me that you found that one comment the
one comment says like this seems like a
waste of time or something like why lame
guest lame guests yes lame guess and
then used
like responded something like with a
question mark yeah yeah I wrote wow my
lame guests let's talk about this yeah I
was like why am I a lame guest and he
responded he responded even after you
deleted this what do you say he said he
doesn't know what value I would bring
because I just make videos about chess
games yeah and that's true you've had
some absolutely brilliant people on but
I also looked at this gentleman's
profile and he his
he was one of the folks that put things
about his family and God and His
politics in his Twitter bio and I
started thinking
maybe I said something in some video and
I made a joke about
religion or something just some offhand
five second thing somewhere that someone
turns me into just an absolute outcast
in their household they can no longer
watch me and that has happened yeah that
has happened I'll record a 30 minute
video and I'll make a joke about
something and some phrasing and that's
it I've lost the viewer forever and they
will let me know they will write me an
email and I just don't think people
should be that serious
yeah there's some of that because I'll
I've seen people say that sometimes
about me but I see it more with others
they'll say uh you know I used to be
like Joe Rogan guess this uh yeah I used
to be a huge fan of Joe Rogan until he
said this right it's like one is
um first I do wonder if you were ever
really a big fan that's that's one
question mark I have but the other is
like I think when you should be more
lenient with each other
in terms of how much stupid shit we say
and and you know if you actually
I wish people were able to sort of
introspect on their own
on the OWN on the stupid shit they say
themselves like to have a little bit of
empathy like I wish there was a way to
read all the emails you've ever written
and just to see or maybe do a search
engine for all the stupid shit you've
said in emails in the past and like
summarize it and to reveal it to
yourself that like
you have bad days you have good days you
have emotional days
uh you have stoic days you have
sometimes you have like uh you take very
different political views than you do in
other days and it's like it's all over
the place and if you're a Creator if
you're putting stuff out all the time
you're gonna have those and you're
you're still
you're still full like complex bag of
emotions and thoughts and ideas and
contradictions and all that like you
shouldn't judge a person by a single
statement and even if when you do you
should try to infer the best possible
interpretation of that statement I feel
like that
that's just a healthier way to interact
with the world than with other humans
it's like I wonder what's the best
possible
interpretation of the thing they just
tweeted or they said
like what
let's let's imagine that the person
saying those words is actually a really
good human being and what do they mean
when they said
that thing about anal beads
so good for so long yeah right
uh or what whatever it is like you know
they didn't mean to be offensive
to the sexuality of a certain group
they're just talking about they're
talking shit about anal B it's like
they're not uh like sometimes it's humor
sometimes it's actually genuinely
uh embodying like a political viewpoint
and like walking with it thinking
through it for a few days like
like taking it seriously empathizing not
just for a brief moment but for a time
like walking with an idea and allowing
yourself to express it like playing
doubles out I do that all the time with
yourself or with myself yeah in
conversation I do too and I find I have
to say I'm playing Devil's Advocate like
you have to be very explicit but with
myself I'll just do it
in my head like I have different voices
like you know uh obviously it just in
I've been getting so much information so
many thoughts
in all the complexities of the war in
Ukraine for example and all the
different voices within Ukraine I just
interviewed hundreds of people and they
have very different perspectives
in nuanced ways about the War uh some
are full of hate some are full of love
like hate for the other love for their
own country love for family and
tradition all of it it's a beautiful mix
and I have to walk
I have to like carry those ideas in my
head and empathize with them deeply and
then I have to listen to people that
live elsewhere that live in India they
have a very different perspective
there's a lot of people in India that
have a very different perspective the
people in Ukraine and so I don't know
and some of that will bleed out into the
thoughts I expressed publicly and
um
like when people judge you harshly for
it it
first of all me as a human being is
psychologically difficult
uh but also it makes me less
willing to be fragile
I still try to be strong enough to be
fragile in front of the camera just say
like say things that are on my mind even
if I know it's going to
create uh
people that are going to be like
ruthlessly negative towards me so I
tried to wear my heart on my sleeve and
still try to be fragile but it's harder
you're going to pay a psychological cost
like like I'm you know in some sense I
try to be tough but like I could be a
softy in that in like certain certain
like attacks can get to me
so I'm surprised that they don't get I
mean do does some negativity get to you
or is this the way you deal with it by
responding uh like that's that guy's
saying
like what value does talking to let me
add to the world yeah no but that was I
mean that was so good I was looking at I
was thinking at various moments ever you
went to jump in and I was I was kind of
letting letting you speak one of the
things I wanted to mention was it's
significantly simpler to talk about
Chess than it is to talk about some of
the things you talk about and you have a
big responsibility because you have to
absorb information like a sponge
but you also then need to present it in
a way where you potentially have an
opinion while trying to be fair to
everybody and you're talking about
things that will literally never please
everybody just literally what else are
you going to talk about some issues that
are going to get out there into the
and people are going to watch it the
eyes right the years of of millions of
people and not everybody is going to be
satisfied and these are issues where
people are going to be much more likely
to speak up in all sorts of ways
tremendous support or tremendous hatred
vitriol and God knows what else yeah you
you it's one of the reasons I'm I'm
Blown Away to even be sitting here
frankly because up until a few months
ago you weren't talking to you know you
I'm not saying you weren't talking to
but you hadn't spoken to chess players
you were speaking to people who were
doing much more substantial things in
the world I I appreciate the humility
there
just to me is incredible it's a
beautiful game but I think the reason
comments hurt
is not I mean they hurt no matter what
to me like not to me because I'm in a
simpler space
so if it's chess based criticism
it doesn't hit as hard no if you had a
podcast about
anal beads no I'm just I'm launching
this if you had a podcast watching a new
podcast photography you gotta you gotta
realize like it wouldn't it wouldn't be
the same way you talk about potentially
existential things you talk about uh
cyber you know things things in cyber
security or or AI or people who are
massive uh heads of companies that are
just inherently going to be a bit more
controversial so that I can't imagine
being in your shoes because you have so
many complex emotions about situations
where you may not necessarily agree with
everything that someone has said
publicly but you still invite them for a
conversation because they're a human
being it's totally different likes I
don't know I not the way I experience it
to me I think what hurts
is it's not even on my because I'm super
self-critical usually way more than the
internet can be it's that like human
beings can be cruel to each other so
like the reason it hurts for some reason
is like this almost like this
disappointment in people they don't give
each other a chance so in that sense the
negativity doesn't have to be about
Ukraine or geopolitics it could be about
the silliest of things I said and like
to me it's like why why be mean to each
other in a context where the mean
doesn't
like it's out of place because I for
example there is like a gaming culture
where they just talk shit to each other
Non-Stop
I think it's more
acceptable there it seems to fit it
seems to be funnier there in the like uh
when streamers talk shit to each other
I've been listening to several streamers
recently and it's like it somehow Works
a little better even if they're just
like cruel to each other it makes more
sense
um but I think what people are genuinely
trying to educate or to help and so on
and you still get the shitty comments I
don't know it makes me sad
no it doesn't it it doesn't make me
it doesn't make me sad I
think part of that is also the way I was
brought up so I was
I skipped kindergarten so I was always
the smallest kid
and you're picked on
I was picked on and then I did picking
so I had kind of both in my life I kind
of know I went home from summer camp
crying
and I also made a kid cry once in fourth
grade so I had the balance and a
physical or mental abuse
or both verbal verbal no I didn't beat
anybody up I was Tiny I think the kid in
the younger grade was bigger than I was
and he still broke him because I was an
ass yeah I so I had to use my mental
Warfare I had to use my words I had to
be and growing up I my parents blew when
I was super young and I played chess so
all things that make you super
self-trustworthy like you believe your
first instinct you don't listen to what
other people tell you and if people give
you advice say okay I'm gonna think
about that I'm not going to go in and do
that I wasn't impressionable you
couldn't convince me to do something
that stuck to this day my wife has had
to deconstruct some of my stubbornness I
didn't even realize was incredible
stubbornness it's just something that
you you brought up with so to me that
stuff doesn't bother me and it's it's so
the voices of others don't shake you
quite they can'