Kind: captions
Language: en
the following is a conversation with
george st pierre considered by many to
be the greatest fighter in the history
of ufc and mma but even more than that
one of the greatest martial artists ever
quick mention of our sponsors all form
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support this podcast as a side note let
me say that getting the chance to hang
out with george talk to him on the
podcast record a quick self-defense
video that i'll release soon all while
both of us wearing suits was one of the
most memorable days of my life
in setting all this up i talked to joe
rogan and originally we couldn't
schedule a chat with him and george on
the jre
which allowed me to pretend for a brief
time that george came down to austin
just to see me
who the hell am i
in truth him and joe probably conspired
to make me feel special but that's the
point it's inspiring to see george and
joe
who are at the top of their field treat
others as equals as human beings no
matter who they are
even silly russians in a suit
meeting george was an honor for me
beyond words
this is a lex friedman podcast and
here's my conversation with my long time
martial arts hero and now my friend
mr george sampire
in your fighting career where you're
more motivated by the love of winning
or the fear and hatred of losing i like
to win better than i hate to lose
because if it would not have been the
case
i would never have fought in the first
place because i don't like to fight at
all
but you talked about the anxiety the
fear that you experience leading up to a
fight so
to you ultimately the reason to go
through that
difficult process is because it feels
damn good to have your hand raised
there is that there is also the fact
that
martial art i've been introduced when i
was very young and it's probably the
best
thing i can do in my life fighting it's
that's what i do best
also it provides me
of freedom
of access of things that
most of people do not have
but all that as a price and a lot of
money i made a lot of money of course
with it
i was
maybe predisposed with certain abilities
i
met incredible mentors
throughout my life
i worked really hard
and of course i had a lot of chances the
the stars were all aligned
and
in order to to kept keep that those
advantages
of freedom money and glory and excess of
things that most people don't have and
have the these
dream life that i have
i had to sacrifice myself and fight in
order to keep it
it's very hard to understand
because i also believe most fighters are
not like me
they a lot of guys because i
corner a lot of guys and it seems to me
that they love their job they enjoyed
to to go fight in a cage i love to train
i love the science of fighting the sport
the to to be in good shape the
confidence that training in mixed
martial art give me
however i do not like the feeling
of uncertainty the stress
that i have
not knowing if i will be
badly injured
or
humiliated or
winning the fight it's to me unbearable
and it
that's what takes the most out of me
more than brain damage more than
anything that's what takes the most out
of me
but the thing you get from it is the
freedom
that you get
because uh because of the money but
because of the celebrity because of
everything that comes with it so you can
be the best version of yourself because
of fighting but at the same time you've
said that
quote i don't believe there's pleasure
in life
i believe there's only a relief from
pain we have to suffer to be on top
so isn't there something to just the
suffering in itself just doing really
difficult shit just to get to the top
to explain that and so people can relate
to it because not everybody is a fighter
i think
the best example i can
[Music]
gives is
let's say you're
you haven't eat for a long time and
you're craving right so you're suffering
and then when it's time to eat finally
you're about to eat your favorite dish
it's gonna taste so much better
so that's why i believe
there's always a some sort of sacrifice
before the pleasure and the more
sacrifice you do
like they say in fighting the bigger the
risk
bigger is the reward and i feel that's
that's how it is for me yeah i feel that
with uh i've started fasting a little
bit in the past couple of years and uh
there's nothing as amazing
as a delicious meal or anything actually
anything any food when you haven't eaten
for several days it's it's kind of
incredible uh it's not incred it's not
incredible in this simple way of finally
i get to eat
it's you get to truly experience the the
beauty of of
what it is to be alive like that little
piece of food you see
all the flavors
you you you feel just the experience of
it is uh ultimately
of gratitude of how awesome it is to be
alive
but when you eat many times a day and
you're pigging out and
you don't get to experience that and
it's fascinating it's re it's really
like fasting
is one of the most accessible things for
people i think to experience that kind
of
uh pairing of hardship to pleasure
i agree and
in my case it changed my life on a good
good way i cannot recommend it to people
because everybody is different
but
after my
to to fight michael bisping my last
fight was against uh
the champion in the heavier weight class
that i used to compete at so
i thought that
if i would gain weight
it would increase my performance yeah
and i struggled a lot to gain weight i
gained a lot about eight to 10 10 pounds
normally i walk around 185 pounds and
for that fight i was walking around 195
however
i forced myself to eat like six times a
day i was on a very
strict diet and i didn't feel
it didn't feel right to me because
i feel like i
i was carrying like a little bit like i
was carrying a bag on my shoulder
and
i think it was a bad idea for me
because when i
did the weight the weigh-in and i i go
went on a scale at 185 i couldn't go
back to my initial weight that was 180
195 that i worked so hard for several
months to get there
so i was 190 pounds but i couldn't get
back and the morning of the fight i i i
got i got sick i had like uh
we didn't know what what it was and the
beginning
because in order to know to find out
what it was i needed to do what they
call a colonoscopy they put a camera
inside of you and to do that
they give you um
[Music]
something that makes that empty you and
i was trying to gain weight not to lose
weight
so i i told myself
i'm gonna wait after the fight whatever
it is because it was pretty bad it was
blood and i i didn't know what i was i
was very concerned concerned i thought i
had maybe cancer i was freaking out
so i said i'm gonna do that fight and
then after right away i'm gonna make a
checkup so i did that fight everything
went well i won the fight i went back
home i did a colonoscopy and i i got
diagnosed with ulcer colitis
then i got on very severe medication
to get better and i'm not a big fan of
medication i was trying to look for more
natural way to to
to get better and i found out about
fasting
and
it really changed my life i met dr jason
fong
was one of the
one i'm one of the world authority of
fasting he treat diabetes patient with
fasting
and he gave me a program of fasting
and
it really changed my life and right away
what i did is i went in in a cat scan
to see the difference because it was
right after my fight with michael
bisping and i i did the cat scan so i
had
my uh muscle mass bone density uh fat
percentage water retention it's pretty
amazing it can show you which harm has
more muscle than it than the other it's
very precise and i did it like uh two
two months after
yeah so i i started doing um time
restricted eating uh sixteen eight but
right that right away
when i started i did three days water
fast and the doctor jason funk says
because i like to train during those
days
i cons i consume himalayan salt to make
sure because when you sweat there's a
lot of minerals to to make sure you
don't depleted your mineral
and um
when i went when i compare the two
results in the cat scan i found out my
biggest concern was to lose muscle mass
i found out that i did not lose muscle
mass instead of losing it i it increased
a little bit
even though my
weight on the scale
was lighter
i i kept the same muscle mass even
increases a little bit my bone density
increases a little bit
my water retention is the biggest thing
that decrease so the my inflammation and
my fat percentage so basically the
by looking at the data i found out that
by eating
so much trying to gain weight for to
fight michael bisping i only increases
my water retention which is not good
because it's like dead weight and
inflammation on you
so what uh
was the actual process of fasting she
said 16 8
time restricted so intermittent fasting
but you also mentioned the three out of
the three day water fast what did that
feel like and you also said training
during the three day yeah how did that
feel oh can you give me some details of
absolutely this is fascinating so i do
three days water fast
uh four times a year nice for me i do it
everybody is different but for me i do
it after uh new year's because during
the the early days that's when i i eat
bad foods and i drink i see it more like
a like a cleansing you know like a like
like a detox so to speak mental too like
psychologically yes i do it
after the new years right before the
summer
cut for the beach yeah
yeah yeah after the summer because of
the summer i've been partying a little
bit sometime let myself go and right
before the the holidays
and um
i've tried the doc dr fungi says to me
say george everybody is different
because i'm a very active person and
everybody has a different genetics so so
for me i i feel that
three days is the sweet spot
because i still train during those three
days the first day the first two days i
don't change nothing i i train regularly
on every on my regular schedule however
on the on the third day
i modify a little bit i i do something
more
[Music]
more easy
and that's how i do it and i've tried
before because i when i say three days
is my sweet spot i've tried to go up to
five days but the problems is after my
third days i i found out that i had a
big problem sleeping i i get into a
hyperactive mode yeah they call that the
hunter-gatherer uh
mode you know like you you you you your
brain i mean it's amazing your
creativity is at its peak
but you cannot sleep very well and
sleeping
for me i think it's very important so
that's why i do three days for me it's
my sweet spot that's interesting you're
right it's the four or five days when
you start
see sleep is not important for me so the
creativity is really important so it's
very interesting with the places your
mind goes after a few days you're right
but uh
i mean what does it do to your mind so
you mentioned your body likes it in
terms of training does it um
do you find that it helps you focus and
think i mean you're one of the
great strategic thinkers in terms of
martial arts does it help with learning
does it help with thinking does it help
with strategizing and all that well
unfortunately i got into fasting
after i retired i wish i would have i
really wish people
asked me would you have done it during
the time that you competed and the
answer is yes
i think we live in a society that
we're bombarded by publicity oh buy this
eat protein
this that and
fasting nobody makes money with it
because there's nothing to sell you know
i think that's why
a lot of people have not heard about it
and even my for myself if someone would
have talked to me about fast the
benefits of fasting
when i was training before i got sick i
would probably have ignored
ignored him because it i'm not you know
it was
it's hard to believe sorry it sounds
ridiculous
yes it's going to help your mind and
you're going to gain muscle potentially
exactly and and
perhaps people have talked to me about
it but i kind of it went in one of my
hair and got out from the other side you
know
but uh it really changed my my life and
dying i i was diagnosed with ulcer
colitis and
it helps me get rid of all my symptoms
what i do is i know a lot of people have
ulcer colitis and and
for me i cannot recommend it to to other
people because everybody is it's
different but for me
i made a a lot of research of how people
from those circulations got better and i
found out that a lot of people that got
that condition
get better in the natural way fasting
eating fermented food collagen
and like bone broth and stuff all i got
and it made a huge difference in my life
i just wish i would have known that
before so do you have a specific diet
wise
stuff you like so you know i've recently
another ridiculous sounding thing but it
makes me feel really good it's very low
carbs so
you know keto even carnivore it sounds
ridiculous it doesn't make any sense but
it makes me feel really good even for
performance
is rogan has an influence you know he's
a no carnivore diet i was influenced
actually by people yeah well he
there's i'll tell you where cause i was
doing it before he was doing it uh is
there's it was uh popular in the
endurance athlete community
where it was fat adapted athletes it's
people who insane people who run 50
miles 100 miles
they figured out that they could fuel
their
body by
with fat they can go to fat as the
source of energy as opposed to carbs so
and i remember
hoping that i'll be able to learn how to
run 50 miles and so on i've never done
more than 22 but
it i i just remember
switching away from carbs
and feeling really
liberated like i wasn't thinking about
food as much i'm able to eat once a day
and feel really good i mean it i think
every everybody's body is different but
i think carbs make me lazy
maybe it's because uh
yeah it's the crash but also just
psychologically something
it uh it forces me to also think about
food too much like it starts becoming
you know art just like you said our
society is so much about food there's so
many so much advertisement and so much
of our social life is about food and so
it's very easy to live life
like live day to day thinking when is
the next meal like what am i gonna eat
for lunch what am i gonna eat for dinner
what am i gonna eat for breakfast
and uh
if you're not careful that's going to
get in the way of you doing cool shit
for like
liberating yourself and thinking like
what am i actually passionate about in
this life like creating and forgetting
to eat those kinds of things and still
being able to fuel your body i don't
know it's been fascinating
to to figure out like later in life that
carbs aren't necessary to function well
it makes me think like we don't know
anything about nutrition that's right
yes
you know um
personally
i
don't think i could have a diet without
carbs i love chocolate too much
for me eating it's a it's a pleasure of
life i love my carbs i love my sugar
however if you talk about that i don't
have a specific diet
but
recently i
what i'm trying to do is
the days that i do not work out
i only eat
once
that's kind of my rules plus i try to
respect
sixteen eight and do my three day fast
four time years and but the rest of the
thing i i
i i let myself lose because i i don't
think i would be happy if i if i uh
if i if i don't give myself the the the
right to to eat for me personally i love
to eat so much next and um
you talk about diet carnivore diet is
very interesting because i
a few years ago i went to africa in
masai mara and
it's a tribe in
in east africa
and
i went to visit them i did a safari
and i talked to them
and these guys they their diet is 99
carnivore they that's crazy and you
should see they're very beautiful people
shredded like yeah some people would say
oh it's genetic i'm like yeah maybe it's
genetic but i mean
and think about the eskimos also that
like most of their diet is on on fish
right they so
i believe it can be done you know like i
believe it can be done like an exclusive
carnivore diet and i
i think i'm gonna try it pretty soon
just to have the experience you know to
see how it feels like where you're gonna
hang out with joe
be careful bringing it up because he'll
convince you to uh forever switch to
carnivore definitely he loves it i mean
but just like you
i think he loves
food so he's he can't ever stay on
carnivore it was funny because we went
to an italian restaurant together and i
still only eat meat like i love um
i love the constraints of discipline
that's that's partially why i like
carnivore i like saying no to food that
is delicious
[Laughter]
but a part of the problem is that i
don't know how to moderate you said
chocolate i don't know how to have one
chocolate is that something you're able
to do
have like
in moderation no it's when it when i
have an opportunity i do it i don't have
any i'm an extremist person alex i i
that's the thing i
when i when i have a chance i i like i i
just eat i go too much and that's why i
like about my life you know that's what
i like about fasting because probably if
i would not have discovered fasting
eating chocolate would give me cramps
and all sorts of problems yeah because
people on ulcer colitis normally they
cannot eat chocolate they cannot drink
alcohol but i believe
because i'm fasting that's the reason
why i'm i'm medication
medicine medication free i can eat
whatever i want whenever i want but i
have to do that that fasting you know
and now it becomes to it became to a
point that it's no longer hard for me
it's it's like normal i don't even force
myself yeah i don't it's easy you know
what i mean
some of my friend thinks i'm think i'm
i'm insane you know
but i tell them it's like with when you
get used to it it becomes like an abbot
and i'm and i know that hunter-gatherer
like our ancestor did not eat three
times a day it's it's
it's not true they they ate when they
they could and when they eat they they
they
they feed themselves as much as they can
until that because the next time because
they didn't know when
they could eat again right
so it's uh i think that's how we're
we're built you know to to to have this
similar lifestyle
if we could take a step back to the
discussion about fear a little bit so
mike tyson talks about
this process of him walking to the ring
he sounds similar to you in many ways of
the anxiety and the fear that he
experiences
and uh he has this uh
sort of story that he tells about
walking to the ring and being supremely
afraid
but as he walks and gets closer and
steps in he finds the confidence and
becomes supremely confident i think he
calls himself like a god i feel like a
god in the ring
is is do you go through a similar
process of finding the confidence
well it yes
and um
i usually i use a james lange theory
they they did
so what i do is because i'm i'm
i'm not afraid to admit that i'm afraid
and uh
in the beginning of my of my career
i really thought i asked myself
because i was very good
in mixed martial but i i i really
thought i wasn't made for this because
the idea of fighting didn't
was was didn't make me happy it's
something like i i was i was forced to
do in order to
keep that lifestyle that i have
and achieve my goal perhaps one day to
make enough money to retire and you know
that that was my dream
but when i was looking around
the gym where i was training most of my
training partner they were happy they
were excited and sometimes i corner i
corner a lot of guys and they're happy
and they're in the locker room they
don't react the same way i do
some perhaps
does but
if you see me in the locker room
like when i get like my last fight with
michael bisping just to give you an
example in my last fight with michael
bisping
because it's fresh it's the one that is
the most recent
and but it's always the same thing my
last fight
and my thing i get in the locker room
i had like
three guys that i trained with mickey
gall emin zahabi and uh joseph duffy
they all lost it was like like my locker
room was basically cursed
you know the when you're in the locker
room and
people from your locker room leave for a
fight and then they come back it's kind
of a momentum you know you you shake and
yeah good job now it's my you know it's
kind of a team brotherhood sort of thing
so the
the the
the atmosphere in my locker room was
pretty bad it was like uh going to a
you know like a funeral
so i was very scared and ever before
every fight i i asked myself i i asked
myself always shit what the hell i'm
doing here why did i choose to come back
oh my god and i'm freaking out
however
i'm putting on a mask
like i'm acting
because if i don't do that it will
reflect on my coaches and if my coach my
the confidence of my coaches is affected
it will reflect reflect on me so i need
to feel strong
i need to make them believe that
i'm excited to be there and i'm happy to
be there so this sort of play
start when i get when i first step in
the locker room even though i feel
completely different but that's how i
play it
normally the day the fight day i never
felt
feel 100 i always feel exhausted tired
my highs are hitching because i don't
sleep enough the few nights before
because i'm constantly rehearse
rehearsing scenarios that might happen
and i find
so
mentally it's not that
i'm not on top but you keep all that to
yourself i keep it to myself and i'm
lying to everybody around me
but everybody knows you know
for us john denahar they they know
freddie roach they've been with me for a
long time so they know what's going on
but at least i'm lying to them i'm like
i'm feeling great so and seeing all my
training partner
like very disappointed because they lost
their fight some were were badly hurt as
well
it was hard so and i remember i get i
get more i get
i start to warm up and everything and as
you start to warm up
you become a different person
because you know
certain we know that certain posture and
yoga can have affects your men your
mental state but it's i would say it's a
little bit the same thing in in fighting
you know like when you start hitting the
pads you your your muscle memory your
instincts comes back and and you
remember that you're good at this you
know and your confidence start to grow
and as seeing your trainers holding the
pad and repeating your moves
it makes you also remember all the
sacrifice you have done through your
your training camp and
confidence come from how you prepared
yourself and even you're afraid you can
be confident confident in the same time
being afraid and being confidence is two
different thing
and before every
fight just right before i walk in
it's when i'm scared i go in in the
bathroom
and i look at myself in the mirror i
used to have a bandana and a ghee but
now i it no more i didn't have this this
for my last fight because of the
the the new reebok deal they had
but i did the same rehearsal that i
always do i look at myself in the mirror
and i start to complement myself like
even if i don't believe it
i'm starting to trying to believe it as
i am i'm finding all the reason why i'm
going to win the fight
and and all my trainer knows that before
every fight when when the guy from the
ufc goes and steppen maroon says saint
pierre are you up next i always take a
few minutes to do that that same
rehearsal and i tell myself i'm gonna
win this fight because i'm better and
and i'm very cocky about myself i'm
telling all the reasons that i'm gonna
you know when i'm i got a better team i
made more sacrifice you know i'm i'm
faster i'm more powerful way more
athletic my fighting iq is better than
him i got a strategy on point that he's
never going to be able to keep up with
and and this and that
and i'm and be i was telling myself hey
i'm going to show these young kids how
things should be done you know i'm
trying to boost myself yeah yeah try to
to boost yourself and you start to
believe in it you become a different
person so when you walk out the bathroom
now rock and roll now
i really believe it for real you know
like i'm still scared but i believe it
for real and that's the transformation
that happened for me right there and
from that from now
from from there to the fight it's until
the fight is over it's called i call it
cruise control
because i do not have time to think in a
fight if you're trying to think you're
missing the opportunity so that's how i
see it for myself so at that point you
stop thinking and you just go cruise
control autopilot trust yourself you
know trust yourself because you you
repeated all the scenarios you know so
everything that you have done it's it's
inside that your computer your computer
your brain is programmed to react
accordingly to certain situations
and the it's not the the night of the
fight that you you'll you'll tell
yourself oh finally i'm gonna do this if
you do this now now if you have not
practiced it before you're screwed
it the preparation the repetition that
makes it happen you know what about like
the really difficult moments in a fight
where you
are tested to your limits essentially
usually it's cardio related exhaustion
right where you have to ask yourself
that same questions like why the hell am
i doing this
yeah
do you do do you experience those or are
you able to ride through the autopilot
and if you do like what do you do in
those moments never in a fight when i'm
in a fight when it's the the when the
fight is is on i never change my mind i
go
until the end
however
for example my first fight would be
japan
i had a terrible first round so i had to
switch gear
that happened sometime but it's part of
my plan i always have a plan b plans
plan a plan b plan c
you need to have that if fighters goes
into a fight thinking oh what i'm gonna
do this is this and they don't have a
plan b if this doesn't work that's mean
they're not well prepared if you talk to
me before every fight i can like in 30
seconds give you my old strategy
you know for for bj penn my first fight
would be japan was i'm gonna keep it
standing up
keep the fight from the outside you know
because i'm faster than him then the
fight would be japan's start i found out
that i was not faster than him and i
found out that
his reaction time was better than than
than mine so
i got beat up the first round and i got
the bloody nose and everything so my
plan b was now i'm gonna wrestle him you
know i'm gonna wrestle him and
you know make him tired and trying to
put him down and that's how i beat him
because i switch gear you know but if
you can't do that if you cannot find a
way to become the perfect nemesis to
your opponent you you you might win if
you fight but you
you're gonna find a uh you're gonna
fight someone sooner or later that will
that will give you a lot of uh uh a lot
of trouble so that's where the anxiety
pays off you're anticipating all the
ways it goes wrong so you develop the
plan b and plan c
hi you know we talked a lot with uh
like john donahue who you work with it's
interesting i don't think i've heard him
talk about plan b and plan c he usually
has a really clear plan a
an entire system of plan a i don't think
i've heard him we've had uh we had a
a good discussion about it in um
uh over some cheeseburgers
and he's uh he was kind of espousing the
value of mastering escapes so
when you find yourself in bad situations
being exceptionally good at finding ways
out of those bad situations and that's a
way of dominance
there's nothing
there's no better way to dominate your
opponent according to him than to show
that they can't possibly hurt you no
matter how bad the position is
uh it's like it's a as opposed to a
physical dominance it's a psychological
dominance it's very interesting
but i wonder
if he has plan b and plan c in his mind
too
you know in uh mixed martial arts
sometimes it's like in science something
you can make a mis like a mistake you
know like
every human can make mistakes you know
there's certain sport or a certain
situation that you
if there's a mistake made you're you're
you're that's it exactly sometimes it's
the case in mma
but sometimes you able to redeem
yourself
and uh
if you look the fight with bj pen
one that i had which was probably one of
the most competitive fight i and it was
probably the it was the fight that i got
the most
damage
and i was messed up it took me three
days like two three days to recuperate
from that fight i was really damaged
and my first fight versus my second
fight i made a lot of adjustment because
i i've learned from my first fight
and also i had a guy
one thing people don't know like they
talk about fighters having secret
weapons see for me my secret weapons was
not
like some is that they used like certain
like different things for me was
knowledge
i had a guy in montreal he was measuring
frames he's not a scientist is he's a
friend of uh ferrous and i and what he
does he you watch fight
and he measure frames the way he does it
is when you watch a fight and one of the
guy throw a punch he cut the picture by
frame the video by frame
so he's able to see
which fighter has better reaction time
than others
and bjpen he found out that bjpen penn
evolved the ufc roster at the time when
he was in his prime he had probably the
best reaction time of all
according to him lyoto meshido was the
second one
but bj penn was the first one so
i knew that if i would try to go first
because i always been the fastest guy
normally when i fight someone
but when i fought big japan i tried to
go first and he was always able to
like i never was never able to to touch
him with my jab and he came back with a
counter punch
however
because of what he told me i knew that
big japan has a very fast reaction time
but had a very poor reset time
to him the way he described it to me is
like your nervous system is like a
muscle
bj pen was so fast but he's like more
like a sprinter so what i did the second
fight i when i fought with japan i made
him flinch like i fake a lot so i make
him react and flinch so all that that
reaction time
that he used to flinch
was not used properly to avoid my
punches so he i burn i i load up his his
nervous system with a lot of information
and fit and fake and to make him flinch
and pretending i was kicking and
wrestling
so he got overwhelmed and he got tired
very very fast
so that's how i beat him people
sometimes they don't know really what's
the strategy behind the thing they only
see the physical part but when you fight
someone if i fight you i look at you in
the eyes
there's a lot of things that going on
between you and i i can look down here
pump jab you in the face
the audience will not see this little
detail
but you will see it and that's what it
makes the magic during a fight the
relation that you have with the opponent
you know like like the mental game what
you you make him believe those little
things i use
a lot of those if you talk to a lot of
my opponent they'll tell you like i use
a lot of these little thing you know
like i look down a banana i go i go up
or i'm pretending i want to attack you
so i'm i'm making flinch but in reality
i'm just doing this
because i want to rest i want to
recuperate and i'm tired
how much is you know people talk about
that with poker for example how much is
the value of this
you know so like some people argue that
poker is more about the betting
you know it's just the money it's just
how much you bet and so on so that would
be more
like uh the analogy there with with
fighting would be just strictly the
physical movement of your body and then
a lot of people argue that there's a lot
here in the way you look in the little
movements in the face so do you think
there's do you think you're
communicating with your opponent when
you look at them
there's no way to know for sure 100 and
i'm by no no mean psychic nothing like
that and i don't believe in that at all
the only thing is i know to
looking through the eyes of my opponent
when he's afraid and when he gives up on
me yeah i've been accused very often in
my career
to not take enough risk to not finish my
opponent but the reason why i didn't
finish my opponent is because i saw in
his eyes that he gave up he gave me the
fight and i'm winning the fight
so
it's not up to me
it's not to me to make it to try to
sacrifice myself trying to finish him
perhaps if i do that i will open up
from for him to to
to capitalize on my mistake
it's up to him to make a risk
so people sometimes they they don't
understand that this is the art of
fighting my friend you know like if i'm
winning the fight like in aki and isaac
if you're winning the game and it's the
third period
it's at the end of the third period
you're not gonna take out your
goaltender trying to score another goal
because winning
uh
uh five to three or five to four
is the same thing same thing in mma we
make a living out of this
and sometimes
you know as sad as bad as it can be you
want to save yourself for another day
you know you want to minimize the damage
but
if he knows he's losing the fight it's
up to you him to take the risk it's not
up to me
so i'm having i'm a good counter fighter
i use a lot of my attack or counter
strike or uh
reactive techno proactive take down
that's my specialty so i'm not gonna i
i'd have no desire to sacrifice myself
trying to to trying to finish my
opponent if he want to
if if if perhaps i might give him the
opportunity to capitalize on me
it's it's not it's not smart to do that
and very often when i fight someone i
can read him i see the fear in his eyes
now i'm like i got you now he's very
desperate that doesn't mean i have to
put my guard down because he's getting
he's going to be desperate but i know
i'm beating you and i know i'm beating
you i'm just going to do what i need you
know if i have a chance of course i'll
knock him out but i'm not gonna try to
sacrifice myself to knock you out
and if you do that
maybe one day you'll make a mistake and
you'll get dropped and you're you'll
you'll tell yourself i shoot i just
got brain damage maybe i'm never gonna
come back the same maybe you know i i
ruin my career or you know it's a it's a
very serious
game that we're playing it's very
dangerous
in the face of that
risk
i mean uh mike tyson talked about you
know when the opponent looks away
he knows he's got him
right that uh that
he's broken
for a person like me who
has trouble making eye contact with
people there's there's truth to that i
mean there there's truth to that that
there's there's an animal nature to us
looking away i mean you could see that
the way the body language the way the
eyes move between two animals going at
it
uh in in the wild when like two lions
fight or to whatever fight
there's a certain
beta move when you've you've been
defeated yes or one thing when i know
that that when it happened one of the
sign
is when i just like made a faint and the
guy flinched like crazy that's mean he's
really scared of me it's a little bit
like you're you're you're you're doing
this that guy flinch a little bit or
you're doing this he's flint like
that's mean you hurt him
and he doesn't want to get hurt again so
he's really trying to run away and
not
not winning the fight anymore but not
losing sort of surviving the the five
round and it's hard to to finish a guy
who does doesn't want to fight a guy
who's not fighting anymore to win and
he's fighting to not lose and the proof
of that if you don't believe me just
look the reign of all the greatest
champion in ufc i don't care who they
are jon jones or
uh
like you could clearly see that in the
beginning of their rank they could you
know finish a lot of their opponents the
same as me in the beginning i was
finishing all of my opponent but there's
a time that the entire ufc roster is
studying you
and they found ways to perhaps not
beating you but they found a way to
navigate to
the the fight in a way that they
minimize the damage you know what i mean
so it's a big difference between
fighting to win and fighting to not lose
you said that there's a difference
between a fighter and a martial artist
so now we were talking about fighting
you're considered by many to be one of
the greatest fighters of all time but
you've said that there's a difference
between
a fighter and a martial artist a fighter
is training for a purpose he has a fight
i'm
i'm a martial artist i don't train for a
fight i train for myself i'm training
all the time my goal is perfection
but i will never reach perfection
so what do you does it mean to be a
martial artist
martial artist is because that lifestyle
that i have has been introduced to me
and the seed has been planted to my mind
a long long time ago by my father
i am
i do not train
because i have a fight i will always
train even now it kind of amused me that
to see that
a lot of people because i'm still
training because i love the science of
fighting i do not like to fight but i
love the science of it and i will always
do it as long as i can do it
people think i'm going to make a
comeback and everything i'm i'm about to
get to have 40 years old you know like
it's
i have you know like
well mike i want to fight in a cage at
40 years old i mean some people have
done it they did it very well but i i'm
not one of them i'm i feel a little bit
to me that
and you never say never
i feel like to me like it's a little
like a kid that you play with this train
when he's young like
he's five years old brother six years
old or seven years old eight years old
and then i was like
what the hell i'm doing here and i'm too
old for this like i said i i
have done it you know and and and i got
out of it
on top and i'm i'm healthy which is the
most important thing right now i'm
touching wood and i'm i'm wealthy
i beat the game you know what i mean in
a way like i that's not to be cocky but
i did it and i wish more
more fighters could do the same thing i
wish
but
it's unfortunate because a lot of them
they stay there and hang out for too
long and and they get badly hurt they
get
beaten and and and broken you know and
they finish broke as well because the
lifestyle you have when you're a pro
athlete it's crazy you know it's it's
it's unbelievable
however everything that goes up in life
goes down and you need to plan your
future you know so
for for me what if some guys have the
same mentality as me and they're
watching us right now i would say
if you do it because you're just good at
it you like the money the the advantage
the freedom that it gives you but you
don't necessarily like to fight
when you're done you finish on top you
know
go go cash out and get out of here walk
away this is hard to do however lex it's
not everybody that does it for that
reason some people generally love to
fight love to compete so they do it
because i love it you know or they do it
because of the money but if you don't
love it if you don't like to fight
because it's very stressful and you
don't enjoy you you enjoy the training
perhaps but you don't like to fight you
do it because it's part of what you need
to do in order to keep that lifestyle
yeah and
you know like
you don't need the money get out of here
man if you're in your you're in your
prime get out of here because if you
don't you you you'll hurt your own
legacy your damage your your health it's
it's very sad and and
it's a it's a it's a sad business you
know what i mean i i
it's like a lot of uh
one one of the place where is the the mo
the mo one of the most happiest place
for me to go and the most the saddest
place for me to go it's on the gym to
try sorry montreal because it's one of
the happiest place for me to go because
i can go train and do what i love to do
but it's also a very sad place for me
because after when i'm about to leave
there's always a bunch of young kid that
comes or guys that are around 30 33
years old and they come to me hey george
you have some advice for me
and i look at them
and
if they're my friend they're real close
friend of mine i'll tell them the truth
in their face and i've done it many
times and it was not well received but
if they're not my friend i have to you
know
you know there's always an advice about
fighting and i answer their their
question it's my pleasure but the truth
if they
they want me to tell the truth
the big majority of them
i would tell them i said listen man
you're in a maybe a three like an a on a
losing streak of three fight
you're
30 33 years old you know i think you
should think about doing something else
in your life you know have other goals
you know because
you're not gonna make it and you know
i've seen that movie before and it's a
very sad ending
and i'm i'm sad to tell you the truth
because
you're not going to make the money just
choose some but if i tell them that
they're going to be angry at me because
they're going to be like oh you you make
it and you think i cannot make it so
it's kind of they're going to think i'm
cocky
but i was lucky to make it you know what
the star were all annoying but at one
point you need to be able to
to have a plan b you know like like some
parent they come to see me with their
kids
hey this is the future world champion
and then in ufc and what advice would
you give him i always tell the same
thing and it doesn't not make everybody
happy when i said i say i go to the case
say
are you good at school
say stay at school school is very
important for you stay educated yeah
do boxing martial arts a great sport
stay in shape
but don't put your eggs all in the same
basket
and the parents sometimes are angry when
i'm not angry but i can see in their
eyes they're like
they kind of
surprise
and
it's not because i made it that i will
tell their kid to follow the same path
that i did i went to school too i i've
studied
i i dropped off school when i had my
first world championship fight against
matt hughes
but before that i was school so i had
another you know a a a a another way to
go if things would not have gone the
same the the way i wanted
but the problem and i'm saying that it's
not only about boxing in mma i'm talking
about hockey basketball baseball same
same thing maybe it's the one on the 100
000 that make it and i'm saying
i'm saying that make it when i'm saying
make it that's mean they can retire and
have enough money for the rest of his
life because
it's a sad story the only people only
heard about the people that makes it
but a lot of fighter even a ufc champion
in boxing champion even in football
basketball i don't i don't care the big
names when they retire they have zero
they're bankrupt my friend and it's a
very sad
sad story and a sad reality that most
people are not aware of
but having other paths in life actually
can also
increase the chance of you
dominating and like reaching the highest
peak uh in your main thing i mean jimmy
pedro i don't know if you know who that
is as a judo coach in uh
in america
he was uh he says that to all of his
athletes is to make sure that you go he
has a lot of you know kayla harrison
two-time olympic gold medalist he has a
lot of uh olympic medalists but
basically there's something about going
to school like having a
forget school any other avenue in life
that gives you the freedom to go all out
in your main
like that you know you're doing it for
the right reasons you're not stuck
it clears the mind to where you're free
to be the best in the world yes as
opposed to
kind of you have to i mean different
people are motivated by different things
so sometimes some people like
having their back to the wall and that's
the only option they have but
most people i think excel when you have
other options i think it's a distraction
and i think it's important to have a
distraction
uh when you say that i think about one
of my coach john danaher he put his
academic background experience into jiu
jitsu and that for me that's why he's
the best teacher i ever had he's
incredible
he started
teaching me when i even couldn't speak
much english at the time and i was able
to communicate and understand you know
that's how good he is
but i i
truly believe that most of athlete
especially in sport like mixed martial
art
trained way too much
if i could go back
and talk to a young george i would tell
him say
you do way too much volume
you train way too hard train smarter
it's more important
and i think sometimes we
underestimate the benefit of uh
recuperation
because you i think we assimilate the
information that we learn
during a training
when we recuperate and not during the
training itself
and this whole mentality of harder
heavier you know like like
it's
it's good for someone who's lazy
but if you're an elite athlete most of
the time you know like you're not always
but most of the times because you're not
lazy
and a lot of guys sometimes they're
elite athlete
champions and you hear people say
oh i can't believe he's very gifted but
he doesn't work but perhaps it's not
really because perhaps it's because we
don't understand perhaps he's doing the
right thing and it's us
who's working too much and too hard
that's what i think
there's a guy i train with he's uh
he made me think about about it his name
is mansoor bernawi he's going to be a
future star is he's an incredible
fighter he trained once a day
and he asked me some time advice when he
came in montreal he's from france you'll
hear about him he's he's very good
and
i i saw him in the morning at tristar
and i said okay i'll see you perhaps
later in the other 20s oh no i only
train once a day
and he kind of wait for me to give him
like like like not not an approval but
like
to see how i react or or you know i
don't know
it was kind of a strange feeling but i i
told myself at that point i kind of i
had an awakening and i and i told myself
man
maybe he's doing the right thing
because a lot a lot of people would say
for example oh that's a lazy way of
doing it but perhaps it's the best way
to do it i'm not saying training once a
day is the the best way to do it that's
what i'm saying i'm saying that
everybody is different but for him it
works beautifully and i wouldn't change
anything you know like if i would be him
because he is improving like crazy
yeah and ultimately the bigger picture
there is to do something that everyone
else's uh says is stupid it's like the
fasting thing
that that a lot of people would say a
lot of nutritional experts would say
that that's
that's a dumb way
you know if you want to be an mma
fighter you should be eating like many
times a day you should be starting every
day with oatmeal you should be carbing
up constantly
but that's not necessarily true for
everybody and it's possible i'm sure
there's actually now a few mma fighters
that are carnivore only it's possible
i i used to eat
right before training and i it didn't
bother me
however now
i
my first training
that i do normally in average around
noon 11 a.m
i'm uh i'm
i haven't eat anything when i do my
first training and it feels to me that
i'm much
i'm much more clear and much more clear
in my mind i'm much more creative
i feel better yeah yeah it's a big
difference i just wish i would have
known that before you know well it's
fascinating the role of the mind and all
this how important
is it for your mind to be clear to
really think deeply i
there's a
there's a judoka american named travis
stevens i remember he said something
that
the right kind of practice is when your
mind is exhausted at the end of it
that you were constantly thinking
through things
like your body shouldn't be exhausted
first your mind should be exhausted
first
it's really fascinating so people think
about training hard
you know a successful practice is where
you walk away
just overwhelmed how much you have to
think
it's fascinating framing of
of a successful practice it's true
travis stephen was one of my main
training partners when i got ready for
my fight with
nick diaz and carlos conditt
he drove
every
friday
from i believe boston
it's like a six hour drive
drive
to the gym in montreal
train with us
an hour and a half
drive back
he's got such an amazing discipline i
was so happy for him when he won the
medal at the olympic game man
what a well-deserved uh
you know uh accomplishment it's
unbelievable it paid off you know i'm i
was so happy for him and every time we
we got to the the gym it was waiting for
me in a in in in the kneeling position
like a soldier
i was like my god this guy he's made of
steel you know
and and after training i always have to
offer him i say hey travis i know you
you you like to train with that because
in montreal they have very good judo
team nicholas gill and all that that was
guy
and i say if you want to stay i'll get
you the hotel you know like every
anything you want is like no no i gotta
go back i have another training later
i'm like not only that he trained with
with us he had to go back because he had
another training i'm like this is insane
and he's gone through a huge number of
injuries so he's also an innovator
because
i
mean it's difficult to say but for
american judo there's not many
high-level judoka so if you want to be
the like
fight with the best in the world you're
you have to be alone it's a lonely
journey actually it's kind of sad uh
it's much easier to be in japan where
everybody's a killer when you're alone
at it it's uh it's a difficult journey
and you know it's it's funny we talked
about
kind of there's some sports where a
mistake
is um
that's it you know you can't recover
from a mistake i think judo oftentimes
is one of those sports and added on top
of that
is um
the olympics
only every four years
and travis's story he's the reason why
uh when i saw him in 2008 as i i started
martial arts uh i switched from like
wrestling and
street fighting
to doing jiu jitsu and judo
and i just saw so much guts and the in
i might be messing up the years here but
in the next olympics he fought
and he lost
on just the referee call yeah and just
he went to war and he just so much guts
and just
everything on the line and to lose and
then to still persevere through all
their injuries to all that through
incredibly difficult training sessions
to go another four years and then
compete and then win a medal i mean that
guy is just
and like he clearly could have been very
successful
he's also an incredib