Kind: captions
Language: en
how has been covered how's it been in
bandim random relatively okay so we we
already announced it is in there we we
define from blue green and red so we are
now is already in the Blue Zone
excellent
yeah but Jakarta Jakarta is still red
forbid so we still black so the diverse
one is black okay yeah
bending is relatively relatively okay
although is still we have to be cautious
ended but I'm still staying in home so
that all the classes is still not yet
started the clashes right the semester
will start on on August right fine all
of your year is that in the end of the
semester is a May so that starting of
the semester is it's like like in in
United States so that are starting on
the August or September
I wish and then that's one is the first
semester and then second semester is
starting on January until May so now is
the summer break although you don't have
some
so your class already started here
justice well they've been lecturing by
them for for a long time yeah yeah and
it they'll be starting 1/3 of the
students are allowed to come back to the
University today from this week yeah
yeah yeah yeah yeah sorry you have to
say something before thank you so sorry
Pat Sandra for this session I like to
introduce Adina as a host for the
session I mean I can you hear me just
can my voice be heard so since the time
is already showing 1 p.m. and a jihad on
time let me introduce myself first
my name is Adina from Asahi TV and for
this session we will be having a lecture
helped by Professor Chris McLean so for
today's session a professor Berkley will
be giving a lecture with the title
appropriate technologies for wastewater
treatment in developing countries and
for this session professor Chandra will
act as moderator during the lecture
which will be helpful like to share
professor Berkeley's short CBS you mean
yes perhaps for Chandra you may begin
the session now thank you okay okay
good morning Chris so morning so here is
a already afternoon so good good
afternoon everybody
so you know DJ's ready afternoon or
maybe late afternoon for someone in the
eastern part of Indonesia so I'm
delighted to introduce Pro Shop Chris
Buckley so I know please do so more than
it's almost 20 years so Chris is the is
the head of the polish generation group
in the University of kwazulu-natal in
Durban South Africa and although from
his short Chiefy saying that he is a
chemical engineer then a Spanish carrier
on the industrial wastewater and
treating the wastewater englishy of a
shorter but now is currently he is the
head of the Polish initiative group and
they now they known in this world you
know to be one of the prominent person
working on the sanitation so that the
court is sanitation with dignity so that
one is a the big finding recently of of
course from the Bill and Melinda Gates
Foundation well you know that Bill Gates
is one of the richest men in the world
so that Chris has been I think have to
be some project number of project and
they funded by the Bill and Melinda
Gates Foundation so I think that are the
integers of a clay so I just call it
Chris
things Chris you would like to control
by yourself or will help by dinner
let me see if I can do it and what to
learn to do it properly so let's see how
we go
so I should now take over sharing at the
screen today yes here we go
all right okay
yeah great okay
can I start yes this yes right
good good afternoon everyone and
congratulations to everyone at ITB on a
hundred years of excellent service to to
the world and I hope your next hundred
years would be equally successful okay
thank you very much right I'm going to
give you the presentation today which is
going to be based on my experiences from
Africa from South Africa which is where
I have lived for the past 65 years so
although I have visited Indonesia and a
number of occasions my knowledge of
Indonesia is not that great so it will
be from the perspective of the country
where I am living and working it was
mentioned that we have some interaction
with the Melinda Gates Foundation yes we
rerun the engineering field testing
platform for the reinvented toilets
challenge so in 2011 and there was the
challenge of reinventing the toilet and
those successful toilets that moved
through to the prototype stage had the
opportunity to field test their toilets
in in a real situation because many of
the countries where these toilets had
been developed they were not easy to get
on site sanitation or to actually get
hold of faeces to do experimental work
so we've had a total of 17 different
prototypes coming to Durban and we'd
found appropriate places for them being
a household level be at the lab will be
it where we've had a community ablution
block to be able to provide these
developers with the realistic
opportunity to test their technologies
so that is some of the types of
opportunities we've had I also just
point out that we are very very much
funded by the South African watch
research commission we've had funding
from them for the last 40 odd years and
we have extremely close relations with
the etic Rainey municipality which is
the municipality in Durban and it allows
us the opportunity of working with them
and evaluating and testing and
supporting their sanitation outreach so
without those that support we wouldn't
be able to have Hart the the potential
opportunity that we've had it and of
course it is the pollution research
group we're a whole group of people and
it's it's important to understand that
they everything that I'm saying has been
developed in conjunction with the group
over many years right so with that let
me let me move on to my next slide
[Music]
so what am I going to be speaking about
I'm going to be very briefly I think we
all understand sanitation developing
countries just briefly introduce that
we're not going to talk about the
planetary boundaries so that's the
boundaries of the earth then a little
bit unsecured economies and what that
implication has for appropriate
technology for wastewater treatment they
now move on to the sources of nitrogen
and phosphorus which we've seen has been
the one of the major constraints on the
planetary boundaries and then how one
deals with nitrogen and phosphorus in
conventional wastewater treatments then
T watts which is a technology I think
which is quite well known in Indonesia
how does D watts manage nitrogen and
phosphorus similarly how is national
phosphorus managed in conventional
wastewater treatment then I'm going to
move on to urine separation and you're
in separation pedestals and why I think
there's been a major breakthrough there
then weeks what can we do with urine and
then finally I'll end up with a bit of a
case study and prognosis for the future
from dueling right so with that let us
move on to the next slide which would be
sanitation in developing countries now
I'm sure you are all very familiar with
this with this slide and so you're over
here I'm down over here and
situation in in Southeast Asia is very
much better than it is in southern
southern Africa and so you're in a far
better position and we are but I think
we can still take the lessons from the
future but we certainly have a long way
to go before we sort of have situation
that we see up here but do we actually
want to go into that that sort of way
we've got an opportunity of doing things
differently and hopefully better
so moving on then to the next slide here
we here we see the planetary boundaries
and the important thing here is the
sorry I just get this laser printer
working yeah okay so here we see the
various boundaries we've got novel
entities
we've got stratospheric ozone
atmospheric aerosols ocean acidification
biogeochemical flows and here you can
see phosphorus and nitrogen there we
have the limits of the globe and there
we see where we are going beyond the
limits of what the planet can take fresh
water use land systems biosphere
integrity climate change so you see the
majority of things we we within the red
or the yellow but however this diode
geochemical flows we away out of balance
we are way beyond using the amount of
the planet is able to sustain ourselves
and where do we get the where is the the
nitrogen and phosphorus come from we
it's drinking water well it affects our
drinking water air quality
beautification hypoxia and climate
changes yeah I'm sure it's familiar to
all of you and where does the nitrogen
pollution come from agriculture industry
and going to the bathroom
the other way weird sanitation wastes so
let us go a little further into it and
see where we can go and this'll now
introduce the concept of the circular
economy now I'm sure this too is not new
to you the linear economy that take make
use dispose pollute model which is being
a great benefit to all our development
over the last century and also
has really come to be seeing the
pollution we're seeing the buildup of
material which is in the wrong place
energy which is displaced and so that
brings us to the circular economy which
is where we have the the the full cycle
of where we make use it reuse it remake
it and then recycle it so this is and
I'm sure we won't be looking at
different aspects of this this is not
new to people in the environmental field
IRA mental engineering but how can we
actually think about it and apply it in
our circumstances and what we have to
understand is that there actually you
know there was the Millennium
Development Goals there's the
sustainable development girls somewhere
lurking around there was also the
paradigm of the West minimization the
knapsack economy all of these sorts of
different philosophies and in a way
they've all come together to give us the
circular type of movement so you've got
the circular nutrient economy the
circular economy in general and we've
come unto the circular sanitation
economy so if we move on into the
principles of the circular economy
is we we have our normal linear system
where we got the parts manufacture
product manufacture service provision
collection and then it would then go to
to the environment but what we can look
at in the circular economy is we start
seeing a whole series of loops it's not
just one recycle loop there are many
little loops there's a smaller loop
bigger bigger loop going on like that
and this here is the stock and so that's
the non-renewable material and here we
have the renewable material how that two
can be recycled so what are we talking
about we're talking about the final
product here we could be sharing it and
repairing it and so it has a longer life
we could be maintaining it and
rebuilding it reusing - redistributing
it isn't easy for the circle and here we
have a refurbishment or remanufacture of
the article coming around like that so
that is the non-renewable and how we
were able to recycle them and then when
we've got from the recyclable components
we've got just the consumer themselves
can reuse different components we could
take a bio chemical feedstocks that can
be reused and we've got we could extract
from whatever we produced new bio
chemical feedstocks which could be made
into biogas could go through the
biosphere the regeneration could go to
agriculture funny so we have these
various loops around here so is this
appropriate to sanitation and how can we
think about it as sanitation the
circular economy
it's early yet
so
let us now think about the nutrients and
the nitrogen and phosphorus we actually
do we find it in
[Music]
in sanitation in human excreta and what
we see here is we've got the nutrients
nitrogen phosphorus the test himself of
boron calcium magnesium and iron these
are all nutrients which were in
wastewater and then you've also got some
pharmaceutical residuals and things like
that and the urine components you see
the fraction of the proportion the
nitrogen has been definitely the
majority of it is in the in the urine
phosphorus potassium and surrogate on
sulfur boron calcium not so much
magnesium not so much iron not so much
so we see that if we are focusing on
nitrogen and phosphorus which is what we
want to focus on we want to focus on
nitrogen and phosphorus it becomes
important that we consider the urine and
as opposed to the feces and the combined
waste water so how are we able to do
something like that how do we normally
do it what is the normal way in which we
deal with that material it is look at
the conventional wastewater treatment
first
so here we see the history of
conventional wastewater treatment they
say from the 1950s through to the 2020s
that activated sludge was initially
there to remove the co D and in order to
and to oxidize it the ammonia to nitrate
and so we didn't have fish nets and that
we wouldn't have rivers going anoxic
then we needed nitrification to get even
more lower Monet levels then there was
denitrification was introduced to take
the nitrate and ammonia and the total
nitrogen out then we had the aerobic and
oxic systems for phosphorus removal and
now we started having some sort of
things with absorption and oxidation
maybe membrane processes down here to
remove the the chemicals of
environmental concern the micro
pollutants so we took a process and we
started adding on little bit stirred
adding on adding on adding on at times
we realize it isn't time to actually
have a redesign of what we're doing do
we really have to continue doing it the
same way and just adding another step
one to adhere to to be able to manage
the waste from here and
is it actually appropriate for a
developing country to have all of these
energy intensive processes as we come
down here and each one of these
processes makes biomass make sludge and
we find that sludge management of
sledges frequently the most expensive
part of the operation of a way of a
conventional wastewater treatment works
and our the Western Way of having
flushing toilets is that actually the
best way of having a sanitation system
so I I can't speak for very much
experience with these kind of wastewater
treatment plants in Indonesia so my
experiences either South Africa or the
northern hemisphere certainly not an
Indonesian experience down here so and I
can't comment any further the
appropriateness of that in Indonesia um
I am a lot more familiar with the
DeWitt's and border in the D word system
and spent quite a number of years
working with border and have seen many
diverse plants in Indonesia I've had a
number of master students there and so
the D word says you know it's that gap
between conventional wastewater
treatment where you and can have a large
system it's where you are smaller either
between a household level and the and
the community tab level the community
ablution box which first time I came
across them was in jug Jakarta probably
and I would think it would have been
about 12 years ago when I first went to
choke Jakarta so this is a system it
does work but what does it actually
remove it's very good at removing Co D
it removes the cid it takes the spaded
solids out but what it does is it takes
the the the urea in the urine turns to
ammonia and the proteins and the fecal
material turns to ammonia so you end up
with the nutrients in the treated
wastewater if it goes over a constructed
wetland you could be nitrifying we could
nitrified the urine and if you had a and
a horizontal flow constructed with and
you can denitrifying but they're all
large
area processes they're not necessarily
very good because you do need to have
biodegradable Co D there which then
introduces pathogens once again so the
system itself is very good for removing
suitable solids and Co D but not so good
and it doesn't really work for the
nitrogen and phosphorus so what to do
well let us now move on a little bit to
the circular toilet economy this is an
organization known as the the toilet
board coalition the protoboard coalition
and they have this visualization of how
they would see the circular toilet
economy what is very interesting about
the circular toilet economy is that this
is all driven by private enterprise the
big companies in the world
manufacturers are all seeing that their
their markets their resources again to
come from the toilet they see the toilet
and the toilet economy as being a source
of raw material for the rim and for the
manufacturing processes so you I heard
you'd go and have a look at their
websites and they had a very successful
meeting last year in India and certainly
it's taking off in India and many other
tensions the concept of the sacred
sanitation a sacred toilet economy
so we know that the urine in this feces
are excreted separately from the body
currents urine separation pedestals are
inconvenient to say the least they don't
suit our lifestyle now there's a
organization called EOS it's a design
organization they make furniture design
furniture for executive suites and very
upmarket places so what does an upmarket
furniture and manufacturers do in the
toilet design bins well they're
innovative people and they came up with
this concept which is called the urine
trap and if you've ever tried to pour a
cup of tea or cup pour some milk out of
a jug how frequently do you find the
milk with the tea dribbling down the
side of the jug of the teapot and
dribbling down unto the onto the table
well that's called the teapot effect
when the surface tension is is is great
and the the liquid actually sticks to
the side of the other container rather
than cascading off so you have the same
teapot you think so
here we depicted the urine coming down
into a combination of pedestal type
toilet coming along this sort of
platform and it stays along the edge and
it comes up and comes down because
there's an opening and that's what
they're so the urine comes down round
and gets taken up there fecal material
pull straight down into the conventional
pedestal and out and so you have the
flush water coming in here and going out
now remember this was all developed the
Western world Northern Hemisphere so
large quantities of water and pedestal
type sitting pedestal type toilets and
large amounts of water now
is it actually necessary to use those
large quantities of water and I know
many of the toilets in Indonesia of poor
flesh pedestals and there's a lot more
control over the water that's used there
and it's not of this this nature but
this is where it was developed and this
is how the concept was developed the the
concept was taken further because this
was done through the Bill and Melinda
Gates Foundation it was taken a little
bit further
he'd added to it and I think you're
going to have a presentation in a few
days time from Tamara from AIT and he's
been working on this a lot you have this
solid liquid separator this particular
one is from Sweden and the tamarod is
working in a similar type one so there
what happens is that you can separate
the feces from the flush water so now
what you've been able to do is you have
the urine which is the nitrogen and
phosphorus and all the other nutrients
are here
the fecal material which is where all
the pathogens are in here and you've got
a lightly soiled and flush water which
is like a very light gray water in
composition so from our pedestal we were
actually able to have three different
streams which implies we have three
different pipes that come can come from
the bathroom now okay that's a very much
a chemical engineering diagram we're
we're human beings we don't we don't
operate quite like that so what does a
urine separating pedestal look like
so here we see what would they pull a
and this is an LM throwing the Indians
squad plate so this is a squad squad
plate at toilet the urine would come
down here round it gets pulled back here
it comes out there and the flush watery
the feces come down here and we haven't
done tests on this type of toilet we've
done tests on the pedestal type toilet
and we find this between 70 and 80
percent recovery of the urine then less
than a twenty percent dilution so you
certainly get most of the urine coming
out and there's not too much water too
much dilution through a pore flush
because the higher velocity of the poor
flash comes down here faster and it goes
over the top it doesn't creep down it
doesn't flow doesn't creep down and come
back this way so when you ask ourselves
would you actually want something like
that in your house is this the sort of
thing that you you would then do like I
mean it you don't change your toilet
very often maybe once every 15 20 years
it's not the sort of thing she went to
know his games from so what the guys
Foundation have done is that they
actually went to one of the most
upmarket Sanrio manufacturers and they
developed a range of pedestals and the
the pedestals that are soul is the
utmost upmarket sanitation company in
Switzerland and their pedestals sell for
about 1500 US dollars
let's put that into context certainly in
South Africa we can import Chinese
pedestals for $25 $25 $1500 there's an
incredible difference between them
what is the relevance to developing
countries and relevance to your people
well you can buy a range of cars you
could buy a detsen let's say the bottom
end of the range of the cars or you
could buy a Ferrari now everyone knows
about Ferraris very few people own them
but you see the Ferraris and the front
cover of all sorts of prestigious
magazines you don't see that many deaths
ins there so we all aspire to something
like a Ferrari although we are happy to
take a dancer so here we see some sort
of depiction of the squad pedestal in in
context so this is a plumbing diagram so
you see the the water flow so this would
be in an apartment block this is the
wastewater flow in the apartment block
here is the pedestal mounted into the
floor of the the apartment back in the
and there and they receive a packet and
here we see it maybe more in context you
see
yeah we will see it sort of in the
corner of a room and here we have a
cross a drawing or a rendering of the
pedestal you see that the there is a
separate you bend here compared to the
you being there which is the Oder
trapped for this would be the fecal and
freshwater and this here would be for
the urine so these ceramic pedestals now
are available we've actually got one of
these it's not actually ceramic in our
lab which we're going to be if it hadn't
been for the lockdown we would have had
it in an appropriate household this is
actually a 3d printed one that we we
working on they're just finalizing some
of the design aspects to it and so this
would be coming over on the market
relatively soon so
what we what I'm sharing with you is
that this is going is going to be the
emerging way of sanitation and we're
going to think about how do we manage
our sanitation like this in the future
and what is the implication for for
Pfizer's sanitation engineers
um right so now we've got to the stage
of being able to separate the urine from
the from the flash water and from the
wastewater what to do with the urine so
what to do with the urine so let's just
talk a little bit about urine for a
moment the when we eat food we eat food
for energy and for the metabolism of our
body and if we're adults we've passed
the growing stage so we're not getting
any taller we're not but what we
probably are doing is we're getting
fatter so what does that mean it means
that the the food we ingest we excrete
except if we are retaining any energy
when that energy then Manas manifest
itself as body fat which is an increase
in mass so the nutrients we ingest we
are going to excrete so that means the
nitrogen and phosphorus that we ate ate
yesterday we would be excreting today
the body doesn't accumulate nitrogen
phosphorus potassium sulfur and so on
with the other trace metals which or
minerals which also necessary for our
growth performance and metabolic
processes so the nutrients that were
needed to grow the food we excrete so in
principle then we should be able to
sustain ourselves by using our excreted
to grow our food and the difficulty of
course is in when we all live in major
cities and conurbations like that the
food has to come from much further away
sometimes even from another country
but we could in principle start having
urban agriculture we could be having
hydroponic type systems we could be
growing food more food within the city
so we are in principle able to use the
nutrients that are in the urine the
pathogens are in the feces that contains
energy and there's a sufficient energy
there to actually combust it or we could
do other things with the feces so in
principle then we could go from an
energy consuming process to a energy
generating process if we had anaerobic
digestion for the feces we could use a
lot less water and we could return the
nutrients
so then what could we do with the urine
it could be direct agricultural reuse so
that's if we're talking about relatively
rural communities the after something
after some sort of process where we can
take the urine and reuse it immediately
and know this is done
frequently in other East Asian countries
I can't speak for Indonesia this
possibility of using it's an urban
agriculture that's not very widespread
at the moment but it's a whole new way
of looking at buildings keeping
buildings cool having plants on the
outside of it the architecture bringing
architects into it how do we grow
vertical walls and Singapore certainly
is promoting this in a big way and
there's nitrification where you could
have a specific reactor to nitro fire
urine so you turning the ammonia into
nitrate and then concentrating the whole
thing so we have about five percent of
the volume the the disadvantage of urine
is it very rapidly the urea and
transforms into ammonia the ammonia is
volatile we smell it and frequently the
the the odor the mallard are associated
with toilets is - - the ammonia called
smell of the ammonia so it's difficult
to capture the all in action and all the
nutrients in the urine or the nitrogen
if it remains in the ammonia form it
would be good to be able to keep the
urea as urea
yuria is to ammonia molecules in one
carbon dioxide molecule you here is a
fertilizer as we know it's very stable
it's the greatest nitrogen fertilizer by
mass that's sold in the world very
stable and it comes in small pellets and
the problem with nitrogen fertilizer
when applied by the agriculturalists is
that plants require nitrogen different
stages in the growing but for the
agriculturalists the most convenient to
add the fertilizer right at the very
beginning while the seeder in the ground
of cups are small so more than 50% of
the ammonia that were the nitrogen
that's added agriculturally actually
gets lost to the atmosphere and just
because of the cost of putting so if we
could add nitrogen through the liquid
like a hydroponics you'd have much more
control of the agriculture and lastly
I'm going to talk about direct discharge
to align bid and reuse Herman two weeks
ago I was had the opportunity of them
where is today I'm zooming in to Bandhan
three weeks ago I zoomed in to Sweden
and certainly you can move around the
world quickly these days and it doesn't
take too long I assumed in - whoops
Allah and Sweden and I participated in a
PhD examination with someone who is
working on that and a little bit more
about that in a moment so there are ways
of working with you and there are ways
are beneficially using it but it's going
to need a bit of a rethink as to some of
our thoughts on chemistry and how we
engineer things
so a blurring of urea in lime the the
high pH of lime inhibits the urea urease
enzyme which breaks the your career into
ammonia and so what we could see here is
that we would have the excretion we
would have alkali dehydration they we
would try it we could transport it
converted utilize it into fertilizer
consume it comes back down so you see it
by reusing the urine we could bring
urine into a circular urine economy or
urea economy and it's a it's a very
small proportion of the mass of the
solid waste the system that I'm talking
about can increase the nitrogen
concentration from about 0.6 percent to
6 percent but retaining nine eighty
percent of the nitrogen in the urine and
it has the same nutrient density as
commercial fertilizer
and so it can be stored easily
transported and bagged like fertilizer
and and and it has been shown to be safe
so you did is just they're all been to
Italy but more and see what some of the
chemistry of the processes
so what do we what do we have we've got
urine coming in let's say we've got a
kilogram of urine the nitrogen component
in there is a is about 6 grams and in a
in a thousand grams the liter of urine
we've got about 6 grams of nitrogen in
the form of urea if we had ash or lime
in a box so now there is the urine went
directly into a powder of them with a
powder which would give you a high pH
and you allow the evaporation to take
place here
then you you would have water coming off
you see that you've got nine hundred and
sixty seven grams of water out of the
nine 73 grams nine sixty seven comes off
and we end up with a little bit of
nitrogen comes up and we end up with
tried new urine coming out and we've got
four point nine grams of urine we
started with six grand four point nine
coming out the total mass is 66 grams we
as it was a thousand grams and it's a
much more concentrated and it's seven
point four percent nitrogen coming out
in inless incorporated into this lime
powder so here you see we've got six
percent greater than six percent
nitrogen the end product 82 percent
yield in the process and a ninety four
percent mass reduction so now that's
something that one can manage you can
take us so you could just see it for
example adjacent to a toilet pedestal
and we could on a monthly basis let's
say could be replaced that cartridge and
it could be sold and it could be
certainly reused so the high pH this is
where the urea enzyme in the urea it's
it's inhibited this pathway down here
the pipe here needs to be short because
the urea is enzyme is a Bic with us
it is everywhere so down any piping
system you're going to get a biofilm
formed and so the iya foam down this
pipe would actually transform or the
enzyme in it would transform the urea
into ammonia and you'll be a loss so the
trick is to have this pipe here as short
as possible and to maintain its
cleanness well not to have a biological
growth
so now you see there is actually a
process that could go forward for
starting to revisit the
the toilet economy so I'm not going to
just briefly go through a bit of a case
study is to our history with D watts and
and how we see the way forward so I'm
going to go back a bit to 1997 1997 we
first came across the the anaerobic
baffle reactor and we were looking at a
textile dye and we were seeing it as a
way of decolorizing textile dye and one
of the one of the pleasant journeys I've
had to band on was actually to go around
textile mills and band room to actually
look at the textile factories and that
was this the tundra and that would
probably be in in the in the 1990s at
some stage I really don't remember when
I first came to yeah that dome but it
was quite some time again yeah so let's
move slowly through do you remember when
it was
that thousand or something up I'm not
really sure thank you so that was the
beginnings and then so he had these five
liter reactors like that then we had a
bigger one that we had at a wastewater
treatment works we thought we could
sample it all the different parts in it
so he had the wood bat and it really
baffles down through there and then in
2005 we said wait a minute what about
informal settlements like this this is
typical informal settlement and there's
no sanitation there at all could we not
have what I learned from Indonesia is
the community ablution blocks and could
we not have a community variation
breakfast community here and have it
treated in the anaerobic novel react so
that was 2005 so anyway a long short of
it we had we had Joanne Bell we had
Priya Donna we had Zalman Timbo et Fox
in
Sudhir Pillai Labrador Hudson we had all
of these people up to 2005 and we
eventually 2009 we started digging our
first anaerobic bioreactor the
municipality Dana started saying okay
let's try its give it a go let's see
what we could do and so they started
building that for us
as you see it's starting to take shape
we were really excited this is the first
time anyone had actually taken any of
our concepts very seriously so we were
really excited about it
it was almost finished that's what it
was like then and and if we look at it
now we are constructed wetland is
looking good the inner area map reacted
looking good we getting pretty good
stuff we look at it from a drone now
we've got moved into the drone ii-era
say we look at it today you've got the
anaerobic baffle reactor what you don't
see there there's a growing tunnel and
that was a containerized anaerobic
baffle reactor we we took this one the
replanting the wyckland so there's not
much on the wetlands and there's a whole
agricultural area down there that we
have a fantastic laboratory here and
interpretation center there so a very
active site where we were able to do a
lot of research but
now it's happened oh yeah my Papa is not
responding they say you have to escape
from the view and then back to the view
the sharing with you I know I mean sir
just because you are in a few a mode
right so just just click the normal view
and then back to the show view so easily
in slider no way okay but again you
start again you will come server yeah
okay you share gate so that
[Music]
hmm I've lost you okay I mean I will
share from from my okay if you wouldn't
mind doing that yeah thank you
over here okay this one right I'm I need
to let me close that down yeah yeah
that's it so we we still sit with the
problem here of the nitrogen and
phosphorus so if you go to the next
slide please so what we have is we have
a you can't see my mouse so if you look
down here we seen the performance of the
vertical flow constructed wetland and
we've got the different place of the
siphon chamber which is the feed to it
and then any of the air plans we have a
discharge limit which of the figures in
red and in the percent removal so those
the ammonia is highlighted in yellow the
nitrate is highlighted in yellow and the
total suspended solids is highlighted in
yellow those are all the determinants
which are not within specification and
they're out by quite a long way so what
could we do about that that was a major
problem we were having a difficulty in
in moving forward with this as a
procedural process because we weren't
meeting the discharge two rivers death
we were able to use the wastewater
successfully of course in agriculture
with and nitrogen and phosphorus is
required but if we wanted to discharge
it through two
due to the environment the receiving
environment wasn't acceptable so what
what could we do we where do we get to
okay then next one please
so there we see that $1500 flashing
urine separating flushing pedestal
that's actually in our laboratory to the
right of it you will actually see a root
some red numbers there that's the the
scale we're actually weighing the urine
so he's seeing how much urine the
freshwater so we can see what the yield
is we've got two scales there and we
were able to determine the separation
and the freshwater and aspects like that
and so now that now that we realize that
there is a pedestal and do such a thing
we could then consider if the houses had
that kind of pedestal or the various
topologies which I've mentioned and that
comes in a whole range kata geez if we
had that we would take the urine out of
the other waste water stream so if we go
to the next slide please
so now you see we've got various
scenarios we've got we've got a scenario
where we have wetlands and urine
diversion so we have cases and nose for
wetlands or no wetland urine diversion
and no urine diversion and then we see
the columns to the right we see the
ammonia the nitrate and the phosphate
the minimum and the max and highlighted
in yellow is the main point of the whole
thing if we have wetlands and we have
urine separation we would be able to
meet all the stringent discharge limits
which were in the last line at the table
I don't know how they how they compare
to your discharge limits but we would be
able to meet our discharge limits and so
we would have we would then deal
separately with the urine so if we move
to the next slide please
so what we have is this there was this
informal settlement called banana City
it was called banana City because the
people were hiding in the banana trees
mmm
which was a great place until the Hughes
you know banana trees don't live forever
and so became a informal settlement and
we have a system of upgrading in in situ
upgrading of informal settlements so
this settlement was due to be upgraded
and this is going to be happening later
this year and next year and what we see
is that the informal settlements on two
sides of the valley and the valley flows
down so what what we see is that the the
flow of the of the River Valley he goes
from the top of the slide to the bottom
of the slide you've got the that white
part in the middle of river line goes
down there and so we would have 2d wats
plants to constructed wetlands on either
side of the banks of the of the river
and we would have urine separating
toilets then what we have is the first
phase four hundred houses they're going
to be built with urine separating
pedestals the urine is going to be
collected separately we would have about
one and a half cubic meters of urine a
day and they in the the gray water and
the black water fresh water would go to
the D what's plant and through over the
constructed wetlands so what we then see
is that with the partnership with a
municipality we are able to
take this envisaging of the urine
separation with a pedestal which the
user wouldn't even know that there's
urine separating taking place it has no
no no obvious difference it's all
completely oblivious to the to the user
we we don't really have a real use for
the urine moment because that use has to
be further developed we've got to look
at it from the perspective of the
pathogens we've got to look at it from
the perspective of pharmaceutical
residues we certainly know what the
pharmaceutical residues are we have a
very high prevalence of hiv/aids and
antibiotic resistant TB so there's a
very high usage of pharmaceuticals which
we do know what is there so we have to
work at safe ways if we add it to the
soil and we culturally will it be
alright what what do we grow we
certainly don't want to grow lettuce and
leafy crops like that but we could be
growing trees we could be very
ornamental flowers at least while the
rest of the new research is going on so
we've got to the stage it's very
exciting and the pedestals are actually
being made locally they're going to be
made out they're going to be injection
molded out of plastic we've got a 3d
printer which we are doing printing of
the prototypes and so these are going to
come in at a very much lower cost and
has the potential of rolling out all
over the place they they flush because
we don't have to have the the EU types
flashing standards they would have a
year in flesh on 150 milliliters and a
fecal flush of 1.5 liters so we bring
the water consumption way way down so we
would have a water consumption
about three and a half liters per person
per day which would be the water
consumption for a full fleshing system
right so let us just move on to the
second last slide please so what is our
research strategy is our research
strategy is ready to learn by doing
incrementally we have a very strong
partnership with the municipality and so
we were able to have early stage
technology transfer and the
co-production of knowledge is is not
just with the municipality the people
the residents of banana City are
produced with us they are part and
parcel of on this this adventure we have
been working in their community for
about two years with other sanitation
systems they've got to know is they've
got to trust us so we quantify the
excreta streams we've got the first
stage of treatment we've got to see how
that works and then we move to the
second stage which would be the the what
how we're going to manage the urine and
then we just carry on incrementally like
that all the time of course we come
across problems that have weights it
solve them and move on again so with
that I'd like to draw my presentation to
an end just the last slide is some
references I referenced the the the
Burnett broad coalition which is the
Sanitation of the circular economy we've
got the outer rim which came from Vivek
and the Pune project and we've got
dinner
senticles and nitrogen in ash which came
from Swedish agriculture University and
so thank you this is all due to all the
various partners and all the various
people that the pollution research group
has interacted with over the many years
we've been in business thank you very
much and I'm sure there's some questions
okay so I will know and I can't stop the
presentation
how are we moving from now are you are
you hearing me
yes we are hearing officer Buckley so
it's actually a professor Chandra oh you
may say sharing this criminal okay I
mean I will I will give the explanation
just briefly before moving orders of
participant might not really good in
English soil
I will speaking bahasa indonesia only a
few minute
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ask mom who and planet in even took
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wetland yeah the comedian miss ocarina
maka bikumu to ammonia Nami to be sure
disappear the Bakken happen gardening
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young young young you - all a
professor Chris Barclay JD p de mon guna
they did mummy kirkin delirium Sudha
kitakata who you Kim Sakurako pertinent
Prytania an companion pertinence s top
can you lose here sire
so perhaps our committee yeah would like
to share so that Pepin is from Arisa
are they anything would you like me to
respond to these yes you can dig the
fish yes okay would you would you like
me to read them out or should I just no
no I think they've done it already show
to the address so they the other can
read all this dislike button so the
first one is the a D and E strategy of
symmetry review on you DDT
implementation actually the built city
are already sitting built in city and
houses left considering the plumb being
reinforcements and others a few main
right right so to respond to the first
part of the question I think this
requires would be more appropriate for a
greenfield site for for new developments
rather than where there's existing
infrastructure because you've already
got the system the sewers the
wastewater treatment works there whereas
if we're looking at a new a new new
construction new area and new
development is more appropriate there if
we take a case of Paris where they
redeveloping part of the city where it
was an industrial area and it's going to
become offices and apartments there they
don't have the sewers that can manage it
so there they are thinking of going to
urine separation yeah yeah how to treat
the small amounts of nmp for the feces
considering low and you should have
taken really treat right so you do need
a certain amount of nutrients going to
anaerobic treatment or if you were
having activated sludge you too would
need to have some sort of some nutrients
there and
the the only 80% of the end of the in
and pee from the urine is is captured so
you do have sufficient nitrogen and
phosphorus to maintain the biological
processes that if you were going to have
the conventional biological processes
yes yes when you have the urine
diversion some of the urine will goose
also not already not 100% recovery so
the urine will go spark to the to the
fishiest so that it will be enough
nutrition so I think this the second
question from the silver sorry so even
though I think I remember and then in
the 90s so you are working also with the
textile which water with the color so
that that one is I think and also with
the small industries so that one is the
death question is a in the probing
countries there are a lot of small and
medium scale industries so the
wastewater treatment plant is expensive
and difficult to maintain
they of course they're willing to prefer
wash water directly to the environment
and there's a lot of vatic industry also
in a pure water for tourists in the
center of Java so the question is I
teach you a familiar with that one how
we can change the culture I mean for me
deal with the small scale industries and
then they are willing to to treat the
wastewater coming from the home in our
series is there possibility to change
the culture of the home industries do
you think how to deal with the small
scale industries in your age ranges
right it's a societal change I think
that societies is that this
we we have got sufficiently wealthy
there's been sufficient development and
we're now we don't want we can't stand
this amount of pollution so society will
then bring pressure on companies to
change if if they haven't changed
beforehand so sometimes it takes a major
catastrophe to to change the steps
change in society we just take well
pervert
we've now have coverts and we had before
that we had sighs we had these various
pandemics that came through and that
changed a lot of things as to how people
our society worked we had an outbreak of
cholera in Durban in 2000 2001 and that
the realisation made the city city
council realise how important it was
sanitation and although it might seem to
be a private investment in fact public
health is a is a is a public good that
if someone you know in a poor
neighborhood has cholera there's very
easily get you could catch it through
food chain through variety of ways and
because we all were in the same city
together so it all it needs then is for
an outbreak of cholera in an area and
suddenly everyone's going to change
because they just have to pressure just
come so change is going to come and then
miters will start thinking about it and
plan it and do it in your own space in
the right way rather than to be forced
into doing something at a later stage so
even if you can't make investment now
you can start thinking about what you
would do and how you would do it so any
any changes you make to your premises
and so one would be would cater for that
yeah okay so so the second question what
type of ways what technology ways we
treatment
it is cheap easy to upgrade so I was
really talking mainly now about about
domestic waste water sanitation for
industrial effluents it's you want to go
the first step is the waste minimization
route and that was another time I was in
dr. Carter he talked about waste
minimization clubs well we have to
understand is that much of the pollution
from an industry is in fact product
which could be solved or the raw
materials of product which could be sold
so before considering any type of waste
for the treatment I would certainly
consider looking waste minimisation
being more efficient and effective as to
how you use your raw materials and maybe
you can get away with having little or
no pollution at all yeah okay if you'd
like to expand on that yeah yeah yeah I
did he above I even my mom did a muda
winter Qalamoun christinageorge by -
Cali Book Council on flu hon how small a
sample here
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yeah things are the the the the the
bottom question is about at yeah thinks
the depth Ron is already about the the
same principle is these are like cheaper
and easier you prefer you you suggest to
use the bish minimization first before
going further right yeah
yeah bye-bye boo Jeremy man palooka data
can can nominee Malcolm Limbaugh Hannity
yes
took a guard Robin with a payment ideal
be ready for so Chris Thibodeaux of
Harlem song Jung Moo de Namur ahi to
support a apology de pinna delegate and
so is there any Edina yes there are a
few more questions professor Chandra of
these words for the bears like to change
I'm sorry
okay it's on about the costs to use the
urine trap system in one home in what's
the yeah what is the benefit that we can
get from the system right as far as I
know the the the the pedestal is not
commercially available the they're
looking to the commercialization of it
so I think at this stage its I can't
tell you the costs but in principle it's
been developed by the villain Melinda
Gates Foundation and they have the
universal access policy so in our
countries it comes at a virtually a cost
price so if one can I don't know the so
in principle it shouldn't have a higher
cost
then your current ceramic pedestals mmm
shouldn't cost any more than that
because the only IP has been paid for by
the Gates Foundation yeah so that's
that's on the cost side yeah benefit
yeah the the water situation is quite
varied in in in Indonesia from places
where there's lots and lots of water
places where there's very little water
so one of the advantages that you have a
flush toilet with
less than a usage of three liters per
person per day for complete flushing and
then when you're when your water
consumption is so much less any
treatment in any subsequent
infrastructure as that is that much less
so it means that the the infrastructure
for providing water and the
infrastructure for removing water can be
reduced
it's all part of the waste reduction of
waste minimization so I don't think
benefits will be very great directly but
if you were to direct the urine for
example into the line bed there would be
a value on the fertilizer so it would be
sort of equivalent but every yeah it
wouldn't be very much but if you're in
an agricultural area then that that
fertilizer would it be a benefit to our
to the farmers but so the the amount of
nutrient Jurek's excrete is equivalent
to the amount of nutrients that's
required to grow your food so it would
mean that a family would be able to have
enough fertilizer to sustainably grow
the food if their own food requirements
and similarly if you had a thousand
people that would be sufficient food
from that that area to grow food without
having to import okay so I think the
expedition probably jump today
doodlee next question to Fe attach one
is probably I will just skip one the
green one but we have just moved through
the gray one so that you have mentioned
that the urine become drive urine
so this one is a sweat in one of the
slide for me this did Fe do not get the
idea how to get the dried urine
you can explain it let let let me
explain it a little more in more detail
so if one consider and and just think
about how the concept arose at the
beginning was in Africa open fires are
quite I used quite widely for cooking so
think of she wood from trees with a fire
Ashe maybe a bit of charcoal and in the
end of the day the people found that if
they were to urinate on that Ash
put the fire out at night and secondly
it never smelled never smelt at all we
know where is it people were urinating
some other area the ammonia or smell
would be and so they've got the cameras
thinking and it was the the ash bed a
bed of ash or a bit of lime because you
just need that high pH want to be above
12.5 so you have a powder of lime or of
ash or mixture and if the urine was to
go into that you it would end up with a
bit of a paste but if you have if the
bed is sufficiently big that urine would
evaporate
and you would then end up with what was
wet lime would become try once again and
that's what I mean by dried urine and
the high pH would ensure that the urea
remained as urea and didn't turn into
ammonia and wouldn't be lost
so all the songs that were in the urine
would have em would remain and the water
that was associated with the urine would
have evaporated from the large surface
area of the lime bed yeah I think I have
to explain this one in bahasa written
yeah
the bebop I did dried urine if EMB my
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hello poppy ha M
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me JD ammonia hello Katrina seemed any
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pocket there any token when the read
write your entry Capaldi Tom the Serta
marine visitor today
Nick Rogan Papa Papa - Kenna - Anya
neutrogenia
radium young that is a big animal for
Chakri's so so the the next question is
the red one is there any possibility the
the virus if you use the urine basically
sure that the virus of coffee viruses
it's do you have any now let's under the
potential I see I think at this stage
there's a lot of knowledge lacking about
the the life site will the the
transmission of the carbon virus and the
the very high pH okay so it depends on
the urine itself firstly as far as I
know there has been no evidence that the
virus is present in urine secondly this
stage we wouldn't suggest that urine is
used for any food based product without
appropriate testing and certain
certainly because the presence of
pharmaceuticals and other other
chemicals of environmental concern but
the different types of urine treatment
that are being practiced for example for
the our urine process there it goes it
is through a high temperature process
through the distillation process so that
would would have inactivated all viruses
and a very high pH of of the lime if it
was in the fertilizer based process it
too would have deactivated pathogens and
and viruses the standard way of dealing
with fecal sludge in emergency
situations is in fact to add lime to it
and that's well known and well accepted
way of making safe excreta so it is
something to be aware of and it's
something to keep an eye on but at this
stage I don't see it as being a major
threat I think it is manageable
okay thank you so that one is a knock
back to the green one so choosing
between this decentralized system meet
the on-site system how probably what is
if you your your opinion on the
decentralized system is they watch and
with the on-site system also has been
developed what is advantages and
disadvantages within both systems if you
compare this is a very difficult
question for me to answer because it's
been probably eight years since I was
last in Indonesia yeah I actually can't
quite picture what you mean you know the
context I think all of these things
context is very important so I don't
feel that I'm appropriate person to
answer that question
mm-hm yeah yeah okay thank you Kay so
that one is a but it the in this in this
South Africa as you mentioned it one is
the devil system is decentralized system
but on-site system is still on-site
treatment is still practiced right oh
yes definitely there are the many VIP
toilets ventilated improved pit latrines
and there were so urine separating
pedestals which are freestanding as well
and so the number of DeWitt's plants in
South Africa is one so it's hardly a
wide it it's only our one and two or
three more that are being built now so
it's not widely widely used at all and
another ah okay okay okay I think I Dina
it's a I think so there is still a few
minutes yeah yes Chandra there are five
minutes
left so perhaps here we have already
played some decisions I the question
postman I think's different regarding of
a pathogen protozoa after we store it in
some time or some certain time right so
there's been a lot of work being done on
that if you if you have urine and I I'm
just taking your and putting it into a
container in tropical climates the the
there we use the fact that the urea
decomposes into ammonia the pH goes up
and ammonia itself is a very strong
disinfectant and so if if you have
ambient temperatures around 20 degrees
Celsius then then about a about two
months worth of storage so if you just
seal up the tank for two months you'll
find that the pathogens including a
skyress eggs will all be deactivated so
it's just storage of urine degraded
urine to ammonia will be sufficient to
yeah yes okay the last one about the the
principle of the separation in it you if
you Oh is so different you can separate
the urine and then the feces what is the
principle of separation the separation
from simple it is a simple hydrogen
hydrodynamics it's the flow or simply if
we go back to that teapot analogy the
think maybe a coffee pot is more
appropriate you if you had a teapot and
you poured the tea are to the teapot or
the milk out of a milk jug slowly the
the liquid doesn't pour directly into
the cup and dribbles down the the
outside of the of the teapot
no what is it is a repeater analogy in
Indonesia there's coffee yeah yeah
possibly if you could think of a more
appropriate Indonesian analogy yeah okay
so did I will explain later buddy
and Vanessa what dunya is this time is
up right yes professor Chandra the time
is still two minutes left but perhaps if
professor Berkeley wants to give any
closing remarks before we close our
session for today
right well thank you thank you very much
for the invitation to speak to you and
my enjoyed it very much and really what
I hope to bring across to you is that
there are different ways of moving
forward that we don't we you're all
moving into your next 100 years and to
do things differently you don't do
things the same way that you did before
we are all different the the the fact
that we've had lock downs and curve it
we've changed our way we were all
sitting at home watching this we not in
lecture theaters but a change always
comes and it brings things along and I
hope that I'm showing you a different
way of looking at the sanitation systems
that we bring you into the secure
economy and that there was used for the
different people products that thank you
very much and thank you I think I would
like to thank you in case I think I will
keep in touch with you so we will have
another description oh yes it will be
some time before we can kiss but I like
to thank you for your time thank you
thank you thank you very much professor
thank you
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he'll engineer currency de cocora
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Muhammad Ali sassy punkin anger
desirable and mechanically very quickly
Salman on the video see you baby nothing
AMD you too busy to give me