Kind: captions
Language: en
dr william lee here physician author and
scientist
uh i am actually i'm doing this video
series to
bring on my friends and colleagues
people that i actually know and
uh
share in a lot of stuff in common to
have a conversation about um things that
we care about and you know so so you
guys can actually be a little bit of a
fly on the wall and hear what do people
like us actually talk about in in real
life and um today i'm actually joined
really pleased to have my good friend dr
jason fung who's in canada he's an md
like me he's a nephrologist um you know
kidney kidney guy uh you know i i used
to always
marvel uh when i was in medical school
with the people who do
nephrology because the kidney seems
simple but it's incredibly complicated
and actually controls you know your
whole kind of like
destiny of how well you do like you can
live without a lot of other stuff but
your kidneys pretty much you know like
you don't have those in good shape
you're you're you're you're doomed um uh
so
anyway i brought uh jason because he's
one of these um
like me somebody that was trained
um in the factory
uh but somehow we wound up busting out
and realizing that there was so there
was a whole other world out there that
we had to get in touch with so uh jason
uh great to have you uh uh uh great to
have chat with you and and um one of the
things i wanted to actually talk to you
about because you you always i was just
telling you before we started taping
i went to the mediterranean to do some
research for my next book
it's on metabolism and i was searching
stuff online and i was thinking about
metabolism and i was thinking about
somehow it was almost like the the
the youtube gods actually knew that i
was thinking about it and
lo and behold they started serving up
your videos so i watched a few but um
here i was in the summer time in the
mediterranean is a beautiful surrounding
beautiful environment and i was thinking
about
this whole idea of fasting so summer
i usually have a little bit of a less
structured day
my summer pattern is very different than
my regular school year pattern or
whatever you want to call it um and then
when you're on vacation a lot of people
go on vacation
also very unstructured so
how do you what like
how should i be thinking about summer
structuring of of fasting or eating or
not eating and how do you do it
um yeah thanks for uh having me on first
of all william it's great to be here
actually and i i love your
your uh characterization of the
the factory
because it really is it's like a mass
production
um
and and and so so yeah the fast thing is
something which is very flexible and i
think that's really what we're all
looking for in the summer like you know
if you think about the school year for
example you know it's very structured
through september to sort of june for
for many people
and then you sort of let loose in the
summer so there's less uh sort of
guidelines and stuff and that's where
fasting is really
really helpful because you don't really
have to do it a set way that is you
could fast one way and then next week do
it a different way and then the week
after do it different ways so for
example um i went on vacation too uh
just recently in greece and um wait you
were in greece yeah i was in greece
maybe that's why the youtube fed us
we were we were at the same maybe we're
in the same wi-fi
[Laughter]
where in greece did you go i went to
athens and then i went for a few um a
few days in santorini no kidding i was
exactly on santorini get out of here i'm
at okay now it wasn't youtube it was
probably the wi-fi that actually did it
i was in athens and i was in santorini i
go to this little village called ia uh i
don't know if you saw in the summer yeah
i went by it was uh i was in
which was oh that's a beautiful area
with a
gigantic walk out with the church on the
very end of it uh it's like a little
amazing amazing town i think that's the
highest spot on that island
so we're going to talk okay we're
definitely going to talk about what we
ate in santorini but
tell me about the okay the less
structure stuff you want on vacation and
how did you handle it so so the thing is
that you can do whatever you want right
so it's um
you know i was with my family there so
it was uh you know and some days there
was breakfast uh which was included and
some days not so
the thing about the fasting is that
you're not
set by any rules so on the days that i
had breakfast i don't normally eat
breakfast because that's just what i'm
used to these days so i don't sort of
want it to require but because it's
there and you know i had a later
breakfast and then that was
sort of it's okay because you can make
it up on the other side if you want to
still keep to that fasting regimen you
can eat earlier and then sort of stop
eating uh in the afternoon it's very hot
anyway so it's it's sort of easy to do i
find it
a bit difficult to eat too much when
it's hot it's i just find everything
uncomfortable right so um and i think a
lot of people are like that right so
that's that's the advantage and then
once i got back i just went back into my
usual regimen i actually wound up
gaining some weight because i was on
holidays i was eating a lot of sort of
um you know trying all different things
some of which were very
uh stuff that i wouldn't normally eat
for example like like like what would
you not what would you not normally eat
like baklava
it was a classic there of course i'm
going to try it right there of course
you're going to try it by the way
you know the interesting thing about
baklava if you were to break it apart
you know i think it's besides the butter
and
super sweet honey i mean there's other
good stuff in there like the walnuts and
stuff like that so i always i i think
that it's it's interesting how some of
these desserts you know they start off
with them just some good dietary fiber
in it but it's got like then pounded
with sugar so that's all you'd gain wait
tell me how you did this all right look
i was we were in the exact same place
and i was
honestly this is after i watched your
videos like it's crazy we could have
just like texted each other we could
have gotten together and just had a meal
together yeah how did so look in greece
people eat in a mediterranean in general
people eat later
that's just that the culture and i would
imagine they probably get up you know
like still reasonably early in the
morning like not not terribly later so
what is it like how do you think about
because this is literally what i was
trying to contemplate like
are people who eat dinner late by their
culture
but still get up to go to work and stuff
like that um are they less healthy
because they're eating so close to their
bedtime or
how do we do is there any data like how
do you think about that there's there's
um there's some data and it's it's but
it's very very
uh confounded of course because it's all
mixed in so not only the timing of the
meals but what you eat and how much you
eat it's all very much confounded
because it's all sort of
dictated by that location so is it is it
the foods that you're eating or is it
the amount that you're eating or is it
the timing that you're eating because
all of those are actually important
factors yeah so just changing one single
factor doesn't always change the other
factors for example so some of the
especially in europe for example like if
you look at the portion sizes yes right
you know if you're used to american
portions you're like whoa this is like
half of yeah i'm using that that's just
what they eat like
and shared food
right exactly yeah so instead of getting
your own big honking plate of a three
inch whatever you know you're getting
lots of little pieces of things that you
can actually share
yeah and and i think that um so that
sort of family style eating is is
sometimes a little bit better because a
lot of times people
when they eat they're trained to eat
until everything's done so even if
you're sort of full there's this sort of
well you should just
clean your plate like you don't want to
yeah you don't want to waste it and of
course that's from
you know
years of sort of you know or
post-war messaging
exactly and and you know it's expensive
and you don't want to waste it right so
you don't want to eat whereas the sort
of if you're sharing then there's no
obligation to finish it because
you know and then a lot of times you'll
have stuff left over and you'll just
pack it or whatever to go but it's not
an individual responsibility to sort of
finish your plate yeah and that's part
of the tradition of a lot of places and
if you're less hungry you don't feel so
i always thought it's strange because
it's like whether you're hungry or not
you eat the same amount because it's
dictated by your pork
by the portion size like if you go to
restaurant it's the same portion whether
you're hungry or not hungry most people
will just finish that it's just sort of
human nature
um
but it really shouldn't be that that
doesn't make any sense from a
physiologic standpoint if you're not
hungry then
you should be eating less so what's your
what's your tip like how do you do it
yourself like i was i was also thinking
about this
what are the cues that you personally
sense when you just say yeah i'm gonna
stop
i think the best thing is one don't
start because i've i and i've had this
and i i this is i noticed this more on
vacation because my meals are sort of
they were more structured because of the
environment and you know
where you are and stuff and i noticed
this few times that there were be times
that i wasn't hungry at all i wouldn't
you know i would have normally just not
eaten like if i was at work
you know and i'm not hungry i'm not
going to eat and there's no reason to
but because i was on vacation for
example
and other people wanted to eat so then
as i started to eat what i noticed which
was extremely
funny i thought is that i wound up
eating like almost a normal meal whereas
i actually could have skipped that homie
but once you start
yeah it's actually very difficult to
you know just stop it because that
little bit of initial food gets you sort
of into that it's sort of
changes you from you know not wanting to
eat and being full and i'm okay i don't
need to eat too hey i'm eating i might
as well finish this off finish my meal
so it's always strange to me and and i
know this this happens to a lot of
people too is that if you start you wind
up doing the whole thing as opposed to
uh you actually i just could have
skipped the whole thing now if i was
trying to lose a lot of weight for
example then it's super detrimental
because you're eating you can't lose
weight while you're eating so no matter
what it is
so
you know if you're not hungry then don't
start and and this is especially true um
if you're
in a place like greece and there's just
other stuff to do like you might want to
go hiking or if you're really hot you
might want to go for a swim
eating is not really what's foremost on
your mind because you know there's just
other beauty and just because there's
three meals a day
that we've been socially conditioned to
have doesn't mean that you know we're
robots to that you know uh they're and
you know i think that that's that's such
an important point um so when you found
yourself
eating
despite your
because of your environment but despite
your which you might otherwise do
um were you like how did what what are
your own cues for for
um limiting like stopping like do you do
you feel like
like how do you get your
harahachi bun me like what's your 80 or
50 or whatever stopping point like
what's your internal barometer on that
i think the the the only thing is just
to sort of try and do it mindfully just
sort of thinking am i really hungry
anymore um and of course external cues
do play a big role in that and that's
where sort of
uh sharing meals is
those are the external cues so you sort
of gauge how much food is left and you
know who's eating a lot then you can
sort of scale back what you're eating
because you know you see somebody else's
is hungry or something like that right
and that those are those sort of
external cues whereas if you get your
own plate then it's like okay i finish
this amount of food otherwise i'm
wasting um but but really trying to just
take it slowly is is the main thing when
you're eating too quickly and that's
true i think in a lot of cases you wind
up one not savoring the food but you
wind up just
you know you're not letting those
satiety signals work before
you go um so that's that's the main
thing the other thing that's easy of
course is that they don't um
you know desserts is you you know you
just want to stop that very quickly like
yes i'll cheat a little bit you know
just to just to try some of the local
delicious and stuff but you know for
most meals i just didn't uh you know if
you stop dessert you're sort of like
halfway there yeah you know i did the
same thing i i somebody gave me some
baklava i had like one little fork full
of it to just to get the flavor and
because i had to enjoy it uh years ago
when i actually spent time living in
greece
during my gap year so i i did my gap
year i think you and i talked about this
you know and uh on a separate private
conversation like before medical school
i i went to italy and i went to greece
and i was really interested in the
culture and how they incorporated food
as part of their identity and also how
they
view this continuum of food and health
um and disease
altogether
um so you know i had eaten baklava
before i took a little fork i didn't
actually finish it because it was just
like two i didn't feel like i needed to
finish it so all right so uh that's
super helpful like i kind of feel like
i'm talking to the to the guy that i
should have
texted so that we could have actually
compared notes while we're eating
meal just
figure it out all right so tell me was
it
i've been going into santorini for many
years you'd be you'd be horrified
how many times not horrified you'd be
delighted to know how many times i've
been there but um it's one of my
favorite places i love the fact it's up
on a cliff
overlooking the sea
um i go to a place that's very quiet and
not very crowded and i and i actually
hold up to write my next book there um
because i needed to just have like peace
and
and quiet and in a night really an
inspiring environment so was there
anything there had you been there before
no that's my first time okay
was there anything that you ate there
that was memorable like i always think
about when i talk about my trips like
something that that some memorable food
like what was you what did you have that
was memorable and why
i think what i really enjoyed there
one it was actually everything was
delicious but they had this one
thing there which was the seafood musaka
which i thought was just
really nice so musaka is sort of a
shepherd's pie type dish right but with
eggplant so there's a little bit of meat
but there's a whole lot eggplant and i
actually love eggplant um uh and then
there's usually some kind of potato or
something mashed potatoes so sort of
like shepherd's pie but with a lot more
eggplant in it and i actually really
enjoy it it's in a creamy sauce usually
and what they did here was that they
changed the meat the usually beef or
pork to seafood so there's like you know
there's shrimp and
squid and fish in a sort of tomato sauce
with a lot of eggplant still
and it was like this was really really
good wow it was it was good it was like
just a nice fresh taste did it still
have a cinnamony
flavor to it like um it was a more
tomatoey because they changed the sauce
to a tomatoey uh base yeah but uh you
know it was it was really nice yeah
you know so so it still had eggplant so
basically i i explained moussaka is kind
of like a lasagna you sure propose a
good example i think it's like like when
i make it it's like a lasagna you
alternate layers and you put a little
bechamel stuff on top and and one of the
distinctive flavors of the traditional
moussakas actually they use cinnamon
there's cinnamon in it so you get a
little bit of a unusual twist
of the of the flavor i always found it
to be very distinctive and there's a
tomatoey thing but um uh
i love the idea of trying with seafood
uh yeah it was it was really interesting
i guess the cinnamon probably wouldn't
go so well with this yeah right
so it was more of a tomatoey sort of a
more bright uh you know yeah the the
acid of the tomato sauce and i think a
little bit of lemon and stuff so well
more bright flavors than you'd see and
no bechamel sauce right it's it was more
of a tomato based uh sauce but then with
the eggplant it really paired really
nicely because i think eggplant and
tomato sauce actually do play a pair
quite nicely yeah well i would have
never have thought of eggplant and
seafood
into a moussaka but i'm gonna go look at
my recipe now i'm gonna go i'm gonna go
i love this is what i love to do
whenever i see something new i'll
actually go uh check it out so um i was
inspired by did you have any did you
just sample any of the fava beans on
santorini yeah yeah i had some of that
and the tomatoes the local tomatoes that
they grow there on the volcano
yeah
i love the fava beans they they cook
them they puree them uh and they put a
little bit of olive oil but what i what
i thought was really interesting
um it's it's basically a bean salad
at room temperature it's not warm uh and
uh but what they what they served it
with that was interesting to me
were caper leaves because capers grow
wild on santorini and so i had little
capers too but but they actually had
these like pickled
it's probably brined
caper leaves uh that also have some of
the
quercetin and stuff bioactives actually
from the capers themselves but it was
sort of
placed like a layer on top of the fava
beans and so i ate them together and i
thought it was just a really
unusual novel for me
uh way of getting two different flavors
right so the yeah leaves um they weren't
crunchy but they had some texture they
had a little bite to it and it was briny
uh
and the fava beans are very smooth and
so you had two different textures and
two very different kind of flavors i
just hadn't had it
together before um i thought that was
really uh unusual and then the other
thing that i love always on santorini
you probably did you try some of those
volcanic tomatoes
um i don't know if there are
they call them local tomatoes so i don't
know if they're from the volcano well
when they when they grow them locally
they because the the volcano soil is
parched
it's so hot there um that they wind up
being really concentrated uh with uh
of they're very sweet tomatoes and so
i'm actually doing some research now i
brought some of the dried stuff back i'm
actually going to take a look at the
lycopene levels and try to see if i can
do some comparison of the dried versions
to see uh
what's on there
what's in there so
yeah that's great
i love having conversations with friends
who have been to the same places about
foods um all right so listen just to
wrap up i would love to
um if you could tell me um
so how
is there anything like
how do you do how do you handle
getting back into a healthy eating
pattern time wise with jet lag when you
come back like how did you handle that
yeah that's a really tough one so some
people wind up um
you know fasting until sort of you get
to your destination because you know
time zones are there seven hours there's
a time difference so
you wind up
with a huge stretch the great thing
about fasting is that you can simply
not eat until you get to your
destination and then sort of fall back
into those things now it's easier
obviously for sleeping if there's like
an overnight thing
but um that's that's sort of the key to
a lot of it is um you know and it's
almost the opposite of what most people
do which is that you get to the airport
you're bored so you eat and then you
know they serve you meals on the plane
so yeah yeah and you're not eating
because it's good
like you know right
meals no kidding that's terrible
so that's that's a great like very
practical tip like a hack if you're
going to be taking a long trip
uh and and
it's like the trip itself is an
opportunity to fast
just don't eat the the crappy stuff that
that you might otherwise pick up at the
airport or that they might try to serve
you on the plane or that you might you
know somebody might pass you like what
that's a that's a great that's really
great and then when you get to your
destination you can kind of just like uh
step right back into the pattern that
yeah you step right back into it because
obviously the with the time difference
and the flight which was like you know
12 13 hours it's everything's all sort
of jumbled up and you know but if you if
you if you then simply just fall right
into the pattern at your destination it
makes the jet kind of coming back out of
the jet lag a little bit easier so
that's that's that's helpful and i
suppose if you're jet lagged
you don't have to go force yourself to
go eat another meal no matter what time
it is yeah go to bed go to sleep i mean
or stay up until it's time to go to
sleep and then just fall asleep but you
don't actually have to force yourself uh
to eat another meal yeah yeah so you you
sort of time that you know your meals
with your eating so that you can sort of
just leave everything until you get to
your destination
i love it we you know like this so cool
jason like i'm grateful for you
as uh you just did like my personal
travel consultant for
uh healthy timing of eating and we were
just in the same place so we know
exactly what the travel time is and all
that kind of the whole pattern uh thing
so look um
uh where can people learn more about you
uh you can go to my um my website that's
dr.jasonfung or you can go to my youtube
channel which is under jasonfung and uh
yeah you can follow me on twitter um so
yeah you can find me there i i
you know on youtube i'm putting out
videos sort of every week or every other
week or so so covering a lot of topics
so that's that's a good place to what's
your what's your most recent book you
want people to know about
um the the one i did the most recent one
was cancer code which is sort of an
exploration of not so much nutrition but
more about how cancer develops because i
think it's actually really really
interesting story of
what this disease actually is
um so it's more of a scientific
exploration rather than a how-to sort of
thing it's it's it's about the science
yeah i mean i mean that's part of that's
part of how you and i got into
the work we're doing now is really just
curiosity and then poking into it and
then we're now we're drawn
deeply into it and then you kind of like
put on your explorer's hat in your
backpack and you're like wade into the
jungle to try to figure it all out right
so yeah that's right that's so so i i
encourage everybody to read
the cancer code but you also wrote the
obesity code which really gets into how
do you actually lose body weight and you
know like my next book is really about
metabolism so um you know it's a it's
fantastic that um uh you know the
science is continuously
changing and it's really really
interesting so for everybody watching
check out dr jason fong f-u-n-g his
youtube channel is super popular uh and
his website and get his book
and with that i mean uh by the way if
you want to learn more about
food as medicine you know which we
started talking about um there's so much
more please sign up for my newsletter
come to my website
dr william lee drwilliamleeli.com
and you can find me on social i'm on
tick tock i'm on instagram facebook
twitter
my handle is at dr william lee i wrote
eat to beat disease there's a lot of
stuff on there and now that we've
revealed that we both
um had a great time uh in greece eating
greek food
i encourage people to look up
uh busaka recipes with eggplant
and if you dare and if you eat seafood
check out how you would actually make
with seafood you've inspired me jason to
actually check it out in fact i'm gonna
do it right after we get done with this
video
so cool thanks so much william all right
thanks very much cool