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Language: en
why is this moment in American politics
best understood not as right versus left
which is what I think most people think
but rather populist versus The
Establishment the media has changed and
that has led to the thinking changing in
this country and so uh my thesis is that
it was all always about populace versus
establishment can you define those yeah
I can but we never knew it
until uh we got to this New Media era in
the old media era of mainstream media
there was only one way of thinking and
it was in my opinion overwhelming
propaganda and they got you to think
about it in terms of left and right and
then they lied to you about what's left
and right and most importantly they lied
to you about what was moderate or
Centrist that was the greatest illusion
that mainstream media ever did we can
come back to that so in terms of what's
populace and establishment establishment
is the current system that we have so
the politicians the donor class uh
mainstream media the powerful uh and the
elites and populist is anyone who is for
the average guy now everyone will tell
you they're for the average guy right
but their actions show you otherwise so
for a every cable news anchor is for the
elites they're not for the average guy
and I could prove it to you I could
prove it to you in every policy position
they have every framing that they do of
a story uh the way that they report
stories Etc so for example the average
guy thinks that politicians are Crooks
uh and they're right no cable news
anchor thinks politicians are Crooks so
if you ask him about a specific
individual like Trump they might say oh
yeah Trump you know if you get them off
fair and you got them talking about what
they really think maybe they say he's a
crook or he's a liar Etc but partly
because they view him as populist I
don't think he really is but that's how
they view him that's how he portrays
himself and so they think that's an an
I hate that and so okay I can criticize
Trump trump is a polit a rare politician
I can say anything I want about right
but when you get to other politicians
Nancy Pelosi oh no no no no no no no no
no no the no cable news anchor on MSNBC
or CNN would go off on Nancy Pelosi
never gonna happen has never happened so
why because they're The Establishment
they think oh she raised a billion
dollars from donors which the average
guy goes then she owes a lot of donor
ERS a lot of favors that's basically a
billion dollars in bribes everyone at
the New York Times and Washington Post
and Cenna and MSNBC think what a
wonderful States person and legislator
and in fact heard nickname almost for a
long time and it was would appear in
article after article and on The Young
Turks we would show it over and over
again Master legislator Master
legislator it was an
incredible you know overwhelming
propaganda to show her as like this
Angel and Incredibly effective and I was
like what did she ever pass and I
remember I was at a
politicon I asked that question Bob
shroom who ran several of the Democratic
presidential campaigns for Al Gore and
and honestly for almost all the losing
candidates and I like Al Gore but the
other guys were just a nightmare anyway
so he nearly sprung out of his seat on a
panel in front of all these people he's
like how dare you criticize Nancy Pelosi
like that
because that's the establishment mindset
these politicians are demigods the
donors are demigods and that's all they
ever serve they never serve the people
what's the core belief that underwrites
that is it that uh we need an Elite
Class who are smarter that can help
guide those who are less intellectually
fortunate is that the driving thing or
is it just greed or something like that
the answer is both so what they tell
themselves because nobody wakes up in
the morning thinks I'm evil and I'd like
to do evil things right they have to
tell themselves a lie first before they
tell you the lie so the LIE they tell
themselves is what some people call
neoliberalism which is oh of course the
educated Elites know everything and the
masses are barbarians and Ruffians and
we have to guide them along the they
don't know they don't know that you have
to pay more taxes and the rich have to
pay less taxes because it's going to
Trickle all over you later and US
sophisticated people know that we should
have all the money in the power so that
we can help you poor poor uneducated
masses at a later date okay and that's
called neoliberalism that's called The
Establishment it's called you know a lot
of different things but it's the same
idea no matter what label you attach to
it so but they truly believe it they
think oh like the Greeks when the they
had the banks collapsing and and all the
different countries were suffering we
were but Italy and Greece were suffering
the the most and what did they do they
hit them with austerity you Greeks you
were naughty you borrowed too much money
from us now you have to pay us back and
your people have to suffer in order for
us to get our money back and that's the
only way you could rescue your economy
and we're doing this for your own good
so shut up and take it okay and they
really believed it and they thought that
the Greeks were irresponsible to set it
in reality the bankers pushed th those
projects onto them and yes their
politicians said yes but it was part of
this
giant process by which they extract
wealth from all these countries so the
underlying real reason that they believe
what they believe is greed and so here's
how you connect those things it's not
that they're not more educated they are
right you they have plenty of degrees
Etc so when they say hey we understand
some of these complex ideas or or policy
positions a little bit better than the
average guy that's not necessarily wrong
right but the part that the
establishment is missing is that yes but
do you really have other people's best
interest in mind do you really have the
average person's best interest in mind
or are you super educated and super
smart but you're actually driving
towards your own goals and your own
interests which are often times
diametrically opposed to the average
person and I don't think they realize
that they're doing that so a lot of
populists think oh those Elites are evil
no they're in a bubble and in their
bubble they think they're Saints helping
the average guy but they got to help
themselves first right and then it
eventually that trickle down economics
is such a perfect word perfect phrase
because it literally they think well we
get all of the money in power and
eventually maybe it trickles on you
right and they believe that that's how
it should be and so they don't think
they're hurting people but they are
because they actually rigged all the
rules for their own benefit okay so the
establishment the they are the people
who are educated who uh are some mixure
of telling themselves a lie and actually
wanting at least as messaging to
themselves and to others that we want to
help the average person but the policies
that they enact help themselves first
and foremost and what is supposedly
meant to trickle down never really
trickles down cool that's I can wrap my
head around that is what the
establishment is so what is is populism
so populism is appealing to the average
guy and and actually trying to serve the
average guy now unfortunately it has a
history of being co-opted uh by U
usually a demagogue uh who comes in and
says I'm gonna help you guys and then
just helps himself right and so this is
the history of politics throughout the
history of the world and it's so so
frustrating but when populism is done
right it's beautiful and so and that
does happen from time to time and I
would argue that FDR uh did it right in
a lot of respects and everything's
complicated nothing's black and white
FDR did plenty of things that were wrong
as well right but overall on economic
populism he was terrific and that's why
he's beloved and that's why his the
bills that he passed are to this day the
most popular bills in American history
so populism uh says that we shouldn't
first give it to the powerful and the
rich we should actually
give it directly to the in this case the
average American and when we say give it
are we saying give them policies that
make their life immediately better
economically yeah 100% so um an interest
a good example I think is Paid Family
Leave right so uh Paid Family Leave just
say you get roughly there's other
aspects of it but the main core of it is
uh moms get 12 weeks off after they have
a baby so that makes sense the whole
rest of the world has it America doesn't
have it so why is that populace because
it's giving a benefit directly to moms
it doesn't go through any other conduit
it doesn't go to her company and then
maybe out of the goodness of their heart
the company passes it on or doesn't pass
it on a lot of times what Republicans of
years past and still today Trump's a
complicated character not a normal
Republican but normal Republicans would
say no no no give a tax break to her
company and they'll do the right thing
because they're patriotic which is horse
crap that's doesn't mean anything a
company's not a person doesn't have any
emotions it's not patriotic it's a
machine built to maximize profit so no
they're never going to give it to her
unless they think it's to their benefit
to give it to her right so populist say
no no no I'm not going to give more tax
breaks to the corporations or to the
rich I'm just going to give her paid
family leave and she's going to get 12
weeks off and if you don't like it go
pound sand and and populist is not just
in policy those are in rhetoric so I
went to a couple Ivy League schools so
it's not like I don't know how to talk
like the elites do and I happy to take
them on in any intellectual debate that
they like but I talk like a regular
person and that's another thing that
drives the establishment crazy they
think that that's so unsophisticated and
like oh he's talking like an average
American he didn't even use any SAT
words in that sentence they like a great
example so you know that I'm not doing
Hy just hyperbole or theatrics is Adam
Schiff if you ever listen to Adam Schiff
now the senator from California he he's
like a thesaurus and and like the elites
love it and they love Adam she like oh
he's so smart oh he's so great and and
you know he looks out for them a
thousand times before he'll ever look
out for the average person right and and
they think he's sophisticated but in
this era Adam Schiff to the average
person sounds unbearable un bearable and
they're like oh Trump he sounds like a
dard right like what are you talking
about Trump sounds like a normal person
and that's why they like him so a good
example of that is the McDonald's uh
photo op that he did during the campaign
a lot of Democrats were like look at
that he looks ridiculous like he would
do sell french fries you know how bad he
is to his own workers now that's true
he's terrible to his own workers and you
can make that point without doing the
[ __ ] right so no he he looked good
that was a good photo op whe whether you
it's true that he's terrible to his own
workers it's true that he hired
undocumented immigrants it's true that
he's against minimum wage it's true that
he would be against a lot of the
interests of those McDonald's workers
but it was a good photo op why because
it was populist he put on a McDonald's
you know outfit he gave it through the
drive-thru you see what I'm saying
that's this that's the style of populism
and the elite hated and the average
person loves it it's really interesting
so why then does populism become
co-opted so
frequently usually uh people are so
oppressed by whatever establishment is
in charge in whatever country and
whatever time period because these are
phenomenons that have been happening for
timeing Memorial right so and then
someone comes along and says I'm going
to fix all that I'm going to break all
that and I talked to Dan Holloway who uh
has podcast called drinking Bros he's on
the right drinking Bros yeah okay yeah
and and Dan made a great analogy he said
we know Trump's a bull in a china shop
you're not telling us anything new when
you tell us that and we know there's
some things in that china shop he
shouldn't break but we hate the china
shop so much that we're sending him in
on purpose and that's that's populism
that goes in the wrong direction often
times because a lot of things they
shouldn't be broken can get broken in
that process and so if you're a con man
and and I the Right is going to hate
this but my job is to tell you the truth
Donald Trump I used to think Donald
Trump was a unsophisticated con man but
now I see the other con man they're even
more unsophisticated so I now believe
that Donald Trump is a sophisticated con
man interesting and so when a con man
sees this great opportunity this opening
they dive in it especially when people
are hungry for someone to go into that
goddamn china shop and break as many
plates as he possibly can so if if you
don't know Donald Trump AB tested a lot
of his messages was actually clever
thing to do so he went on uh right-wing
talk radio for several years Dan scavino
I think explained this and uh and so he
would test messages he would test a
pro-immigrant message and an
anti-immigrant message because he
doesn't care he doesn't care at all he
used to be a Democrat he was pro-choice
all these positions and he flip-flopped
because he he's not a principal guy he
doesn't care about he just cares about
winning uh for himself more money more
power more Fame so he noticed oh
anti-immigrant test better with the
rightwing all right I'm going
anti-immigrant right and on down the
list so usually a guy like that will
appear and they will gather a lot of
momentum and and then
unfortunately a big percent of the time
they take it in their own interest uh
and not the people's but like I said
there are those magical moments where
you get a populist who actually does the
right thing and that's when you really
have the best scenario give me an
example you said there are sometimes you
gave us FDR does it right um has there
been anyone in recent memory that's
doing it right what would Trump have to
do to do it right like what does that
look like other than I get it like we
need to do things that are good for the
average person um
but is there a principled way to do it
or is it literally just reflect back
what they're telling you they want no no
there's definitely a principal way to do
it here's a example that's a mixed bag
Andrew Jackson so Andrew Jackson was a
real populist arguably maybe the first
populist in American history I'm not a
historian so if that's wrong I'm happy
to get corrected on him but one of the
first that I've certainly read about and
so he for example he invited people to
the White House when he was president
like actual citizens so no Pres
president had done that before I'm not
sure any president has done that since
and I don't mean just as like a tour I
mean oh we're having a party let's
invite everybody in Washington okay so
he was a DieHard populist now Andrew
Jackson's version of populism had
significant downsides as happens right
he was very tough on Native Americans
and he was you know vicious in a lot of
ways in that regard on Race Etc again in
his historical context he was still a
pretty bad figure with even within his
hisorical context but obviously a
different time than it is today right
but he was a populist on economic issues
in some ways that were good uh and so so
that's a populist that's Earnest even
though it has a bad significant downside
and a significant upside I would argue
FDR is a populist that had largely
upside again there's plenty to criticize
internment camps uh Etc right but
obviously enormous accomplishments wins
World War II social security uh uh and
on and on so uh I would argue Lula in
Brazil is a a really really positive
populist I could argue that shine Bal in
in uh Mexico is a really good populist
so so there's a lot of examples of it
going right because I have not been
politically really awake at all until
say the last four years I have begun to
intuitively grope at some of these ideas
without having the words to put to it uh
my audience will have heard me say this
a gazillion times but this sounds like
what I call the dumb voter problem so uh
to use my words to explain what I hear
you saying is uh I think you can
bifurcate Everybody by what they think
should be done with people they consider
dumb voters I understand some people
think I'm the dumb voter uh but what I
think makes somebody an elitist is
somebody who thinks that dumb voters
need to shut up and uh be taken off
social media not be allowed to speak not
create disinformation misinformation
whatever uh trust me we know better and
we're going to take care of this we got
you but they actively view themselves as
knowingly right that other people are
knowingly wrong or at least they know
them to be wrong even if that person
doesn't recognize it themselves and
based on their level of intelligence and
ability to successfully navigate the
world they need those people to not
disrupt The Narrative to let a story be
told about what this all is whether it's
this moment whether what these policies
mean uh and that the other people need
to just be quiet versus and I will very
much put myself in this Camp wherever
this means I fall I don't trust myself
and I don't think anybody should trust
themselves like that so all I'm going to
do is say look treat me like an AI I'm
going to give you a strong sincere take
I'm not going to pretend I don't believe
what I believe so I'm going to say the
things that I believe with the level of
aggression that I feel inside but I
don't want people to just go oh Tom said
it and therefore I'm going to believe it
I want people to say okay I'm going to
need a bunch of people like that to give
me a view on this thing that we call
truth that none of us can see clearly
and based on these sincere very firm
takes I then am going to make up my own
mind about what this thing is and you
can call it wisdom of the crowd or
whatever you want but I think my view
you have to let even the people that you
think are dumb and uneducated have their
voice say whatever they believe to be
true uh and then and only then by
battling those ideas out in public can
we as a very large Collective of people
begin to move in a direction that we
think is most
advantageous um does that seem in line
with what you're saying or are we saying
very different things uh I only agree
with you 100% if that's all okay yeah as
so that's exactly right and so I
realized as you were talking though that
that's part of the friction that exists
at for me uh in in terms of the of being
on the left and in the Democratic party
and as we do The Young Turks that
friction has uh been president for a
long time so what do I mean by that my
policies are on the left and you know we
want to talk about populist the nearly
perfect populist In Our Lifetime is
Bernie Sanders so $50 wage the money
goes straight to You Paid Family Leave
it goes straight to you universal
healthcare you get the health care
straight to you right all for the
average guy Etc so I'm on the left but
the problem is the Democratic party is
filled with voters in that first bucket
that you described that's this
information I know better than you I'm
more educated than you you should shut
up and you shouldn't be allowed to say
that and I should get to say this and
Etc and a lot of policing of language
and behavior and and and and that leads
to a super toxic and damaging and
counterproductive political culture
because what they're all what they're
doing constantly even though they don't
realize it is they're talking down to
their voters like you don't know I know
and you have an obligation to vote for
me you'll see whenever a Democrat loses
they almost always blame the voters so
it interesting yeah that happened in
this election too very first thing and
we know it's coming so The Young Turks
were ready and we're like here we go
roll the tape right and they said oh
Latino men they were sexist and that's
why they didn't vote for Comm Harris I'm
like um Mexico is a female president so
I'm pretty sure that that wasn't the
real reason and by the way Latino men
voted for Hillary Clinton by 31 Point
margin whoa they didn't get magically
sexist in eight years right you didn't
deliver for them it's not their fault
it's your fault but a democratic ician
never sees it that way because of the
mindset that you just described they
think that they definitely know better
and that their voters owe them their
vote and that is a terrible political
mindset and that's why they just lost
the popular vote even though they have
every advantage in this country they
have a demographic Advantage they have
an infrastructure Advantage now they
have a money Advantage they have a media
advantage and they blew all of that
because they have this imperious
unbearable attitude that they owed power
and that everyone must listen to them by
the way I think the Republicans used to
be like that in the past and I'm really
upset that the Democratic party has gone
more in that direction right so does
that happen whenever you get a
preponderance of establishment
Republicans or establishment Democrats
exactly exactly okay so that's really
interesting um so who do you have more
in common with populist Republican or or
a establishment Democrat if you talk
about policy I'll probably wind up
having more agreement with the
establishment Democrat if you talk about
um
attitude
um I like way of thinking ideology
philosoph life philosophy probably
populist right so but what's perfect for
me is populist left and that was the
main battle for the last eight years
within Democratic party Bernie the
populist Wing versus Hillary Biden KLA
Harris Etc The Establishment Wing So
Bernie has all the actual leftwing
policies and Biden's like oh I'll do 10%
of them if you push me really hard and
if you beg and plead but he doesn't
really want to do them and I can give
you a lot of examples of policies he
chose not to do because he never
believed in them he's from the corporate
establishment Wing so that's the battle
we've been having inside the Democratic
party so sometimes people will hear me
criticize Democratic politicians go oh
you must be on the right oh you must be
a trump supporter or you must be this no
remember the battle we've been having
this entire time our side of the party
has to win if we don't win we're going
to have these unbearable guys lose
election after election after election
so so you can sense the loathing that I
have for Democratic establishment
politicians but unfortunately we have
what I I now call called binary brain in
this country so our media has taught us
you must either agree 100% with one side
or 0% and there's no nuance and they
break left right that's the left right
that's right we'll get back to the show
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Hillary Clinton the most establishment
politician of our lifetimes you have to
agree with 100% of what she says
otherwise you support Donald Trump but I
I don't agree that we should give
everything to the and powerful and then
have it trickling I don't agree with
that I even though she's pretending to
be on the left I don't even think she's
on the left I think she's a right-wing
establishment Democrat right Democrat
used to mean left-wing but I I wrote in
my book Justice is coming about how the
Supreme Court decisions allowed an
avalanche of money to come in and the
Democratic party started realizing oh
the Republicans aren't the only ones who
could take money from corporations we
can take money from corporations and
they let that money completely and
utterly corrupt them and so that's why I
fight so hard against those guys but
it's got to be someone like Bernie that
wins because Bernie's Earnest and
actually cares about the average person
and I believe the leftwing policies are
correct so but when anybody that hears
this conversation not anybody but a lot
of people who hear this conversation
will go oh Jen just said that he has
some things more in common with right
populist than Democratic politicians we
know it he's a right-winger he's a trump
supporter he's Maga because of binary
brain they can't get into a simple
conversation about there are two
different political spectrums Left Right
populist establishment so I am Center
left but I am very populist and and it's
I get it it's a New Concept to a lot of
people but we got to get better we got
to get better otherwise we're never
going to fix the Democratic party and in
my opinion demagogues like Trump will
just take what is basically an empty
open field he has no competition because
his real competition was Bernie and the
Democrats killed him off in the
primaries so you give me any populist I
don't even care if they're a knucklehead
I don't care if they're not they're not
Earnest just political strategy why that
person will beat an establishment
politician every time especially in this
era in the old S no way why mainstream
media would have crushed the populists
but mainstream media has lost power so
now because of online media populists
can actually rise up so the minute we
have a Bernie like figure on the left
they're going to Landslide everyone so
because in the old days the only reason
Bernie lost was because every cable news
anchor every reporter at the New York
Times every reporter at the Washington
Post they despise Bernie and they don't
even though wait people say wait I don't
get it mainstream media is on the seems
to be on the left or supports the
Democrats what do you mean they hate
Bernie but you see what they say and you
read what they write and you go wow they
do hate Bernie why do they hate Bernie
even though he's on the left because
he's a populist and their establishment
that's why they hate Bernie and the
mainstream media has killed every
populist left-wing figures career they
are our biggest opponent and they are a
propaganda machine that enforces
corporate rule on the rest of us this is
really interesting man so I am always
looking for what is the lens in the
world that gives me the highest
predictive validity uh you're the first
person that I've heard talk about this
so uh the world felt very naturally
divided left right so I'll definitely
want to hear your breakdown of where you
think those ideas came from but before
we go to that let me ask you so had it
been a uh Bernie versus Trump so now
we've got a Democrat populist versus a
republican populist who would the media
have gotten behind Trump really yeah and
and in fact it's not a question it
already happened why so in 2016 Trump
got several billion dollars in free
media do you know how much ABC News
talked about Bernie Sanders in the year
2015 as he went from about 2% to 48% one
of the most miracul ulous political
ascents in American history ABC News
talked about him for 7 Seconds that's a
literal number that's a literal number
okay so because was he up against
Hillary at that point yes but isn't that
why they were silent because it's like
ah we don't want a populace when we can
have an establishment Democrat 100% but
they didn't do that for Trump they gave
him T billions of free media two reason
three reasons number one he's a
celebrity and they're obsessed with
celebrities they're like ah celebrity
right most importantly number two they
didn't take him seriously they thought
oh it's a clown we'll get good ratings
but he's obviously not going to win they
were positive he wasn't going to win I I
said he would win the Republican primary
in October of 2015 Jesus I was like he's
unelectable literally up until up I told
my team go home it's not possible that
this guy can get elected yeah
ABC's this week with Stephanopoulos
right after Hillary Clinton's uh DNC
where she then at that point she had
about a 10-point lead uh the convention
had just ended they had us predict who
was going to win I was the only one on
the panel that predicted that Trump
would win and the rest of the panel
laughed out loud and I said we're in a
populist era and you guys aren't getting
it and you can't see straight because
you are the establishment and so and
they like that's this crazy guy he
thinks that CL Trump's gonna win no he's
giving us great ratings but it's got no
downside because he's not really going
to win but there's a third reason the
third reason is what did Trump do when
he got in
charge for in the beginning and for most
of his time he might have said crazy
things he might have done crazy things
but at the end of the day his one major
policy accomplishment was massive
corporate tax cuts so he wasn't a real
threat later they perceived him to be a
threat in that he only cared about
himself when a politician in that
position is supposed to be a servant of
the donor class they're like this son of
a [ __ ] I probably hesitated for a
second this son of a [ __ ] is taking all
the money for himself when he's supposed
to take the money and give it to us
right again they don't think that way
consciously because you and the one
thing I think you say said a little
wrong on the what I said was 100% right
is you said dumb voter but it actually
isn't Dumb voter it's all about bubbles
everybody's in their own bubble and they
cannot see straight it's not because
they're dumb it's because they think
that their worldview is the only
worldview and so that's what's creating
a lot of these problems so the
establishment let Trump basically win
with all that free media because they
thought it was impossible they thought
it was good for their ratings and they
knew he was going to deliver for the
rich cuz he's Rich Bernie was a much
bigger problem because they knew he was
not going to deliver for the rich he was
going to deliver for the average guy and
viscerally they hated that it like I
when I interact with people in
mainstream media and I say the things
that I say that supports Bernie that's
populist left I can see that the hair on
their neck Rising like you you you can't
actually physically literally see it but
you see it in their reaction they start
to like do this they get tense they get
and then their answers are much sharper
aggressive and they and and they feel
like who are you to say these things
about us and I can give you a great
example you could even see it online I
gave a speech in Washington DC to the to
the Press Club National Press Club okay
so I go there and I give a speech about
populism and establishment media and
what they're doing wrong
and poor that they hate it and and so
the they don't like to be critiqued
what's the driving thing the P the
president of the national Press Club
then got up and said you know we work
really hard I didn't say you didn't work
hard I said that you're seeing it wrong
right they take personal offense at the
idea that they are not objective and the
reality is they're not within a million
miles of objective and I could prove it
I mean it's not close so for example
they say what do you mean we're
objective we're neutral wait hold on how
is neutral objective what if you have an
idea on who's going to win the AFC
Championship game and I have an idea on
who's going to win the AFC Championship
game and you say the Bengals are going
to win and I say the Browns are going to
win but neither one is going to win
because neither one of them are in the
game right so mainstream media goes oh
the correct answer is between the Browns
and the
Bengals no the neutral position between
two points is not necessarily correct at
all that's just the neutral position
that is not the objectively correct
position
so there's many different tricks that I
could explain of what mainstream media
does and again they don't know they're
doing it guys if you're out watching
like don't think they're evil and
they're
going we will now trick the American
people and a lot of the reporters aren't
that rich but they're in a group think
and they don't realize it and so like
whenever they talk about a bill a piece
of legislation right what is the number
one factor that drives what's going to
be in that bill I I'll tell you it's
money right it's uh the the lobbyists
aren't spending literally billions of
dollars for their health for General
charity right they're doing it to affect
what's in the bill does it work
absolutely I can show you dozens maybe
hundreds of examples they put pressure
on the bill gets changed the Bill's in
favor of the corporations and not the
people over and over and over again not
negotiating drug prices is the most
insane thing anyone's ever heard it's
the most anti-free Market anti capist
thing anybody's everever heard uh but
everybody treats it as perfectly normal
but much more importantly in the
articles about the legislation they
never mention the money they go oh the
Beloved Senator Lindsey Graham I know
they don't say beloved but but it's in
the framing they they kind of frame it
that way uh The Honorable gentleman from
uh South Carolina thinks this The
Honorable gentle lady from Connecticut
thinks that and they had this debate and
oh it looks like the Republicans won the
debate there was no debate all there was
is
an exchange of checks the donors give
the checks to both sets of politicians
and they get what we they want and we
get screwed and if you work at the New
York Times and you don't know that
that's embarrassing and to the point of
almost humiliating but none of them know
it it's hard to believe that they don't
know it uh I think this may be one of
the things that we see differently which
is that um I don't believe God I don't
want to believe that people can blind
themselves that completely that's a
level of lack of self-awareness that I
would find
terrifying um but Tom I can prove it to
you sorry to interrupt no please
so it's again it's not binary does the
New York Times sometimes do great
reporting absolutely can I show you
hundreds of great investigative stories
Etc that they did yes right so when I
criticize the New York Times as an
example they get emotional and they and
I get it you know I'm criticizing the
place you work and the place that you
might love and believe in ETC right uh
and they go what do you mean look at
this great story we did on this or that
the other thing but those are great
stories but when you're doing your
political analysis you could just look
up in the New York Times all the times
that they talked about legislation and
how often did they say the most the
controlling Factor was donor money or
lobbyist money the answer is near zero
how often was it actually donor money
and lobbyist money that was the
controlling Factor nearly 100% of the
time so if you create a theater for
people and pretend that these political
actors and they're literally actors are
having an ideological debate and one
side won the debate Etc you have greatly
misled your audience your viewers your
readers so but they don't know that and
and so I'll have interactions with a
reporter and I'll say you know it's the
money that controls yada yada right and
they'll say yes yes I understand that
and and I and between you and me I agree
with you so it's not like they're not
aware of the concept right but money in
politics is a different beat that's not
my beat so my editor told me to focus on
this okay but money in politics is in
all the Beats if you cover politics
money in politics is everything but the
editors say no no no no no no no no
that's a tiny campaign Finance reform
thing no one really cares about it it's
a process issue we so we're not going to
emphasize it that I get what the but
that all feels like theater to me to
your point about their actors that does
not feel like people honestly assessing
the problem this feels like people that
don't want to pull at that thread
because they know that motives are going
to be swayed by that um let's take what
you and I do so you and I both have to
make decisions routinely about whether
we're going to curb the things that we
say based on
advertisers uh uh speaking for myself
I'm fortunate that I could sell fund
this for a very long time without
Advertiser money so I'm never going to
change what I believe to be true based
on an Advertiser but I have lost
advertisers um so I certainly understand
how advertising dollars can get people
to well maybe I just won't talk about
that thing uh because I know advertisers
are going to be a little bit weird about
it so even that I see how it begins to
nudge people what what I literally
refuse to believe is that they're not
aware that that is happening they may
want to think that they let it influence
them very little or something like that
but the reason that guy can say to you
yeah yeah yeah I know it's a problem
it's just not my beat is because there's
no way that they can trick themselves
into thinking that the donor money
doesn't actually have influence even if
they go online and say now admittedly
I'm just projecting I'm mind reading but
I can't fathom a world in which that is
that is a level of complete and total
blindness I think there emotional
reaction is because part of them knows
that that's the one line you can't cross
and they may have a mental gyration
about why it's not immoral to do but
that they're unaware of it I just can't
wrap my head around that so they are uh
but let's unaware so let's talk about
who they are though so when you talk
about a junior repor of the New York
Times they're younger they G they didn't
grow up with television they grew up in
online media so they're way more aware
than reporter would have been 20 years
ago 30 years ago when they're just
getting brainwashed by mainstream media
there is no money in politics it never
affects anyone these politicians are
honest they're never affected by the
money but the senior reporters and the
senior editors that's the most important
part and and remember the who's the most
important the one above them is the
publisher right and the publisher hires
the editor the editor hires the other
editors they hire the senior reporters
and it all flows down from that mindset
of
it's an outrage to think that these
politicians are Crooks if I was here
with a senior New York Times editor and
he was sitting right here with us and we
told them you know the you know right
the politicians are Cooks they they take
money from the donors and they do
whatever the donors tell them he would
be outraged by that idea he would think
that we're radicals and we're weirdo you
know conspiracy theorists I've literally
had reporters tell me are you saying
that the politicians are voting based on
the millions of dollars that they got
that sounds like a conspiracy theory I
was like are you insane the conspiracy
theory is that they are not affected by
millions of dollars right no agreed have
you seen A Few Good Men yes okay
admittedly I'm simply building a mental
model I don't know any of these people
and so of course I could be wrong that
caveat aside you could peel my soul open
and see that I actually believe what I'm
about to say that uh all of these
politicians make a lot more sense to me
if they are Colonel Jessup who has a
belief in his soul that we just can't
handle the truth and you need people
like me to protect you and so yes I'm
going to take donor money because that's
how this game works but I am doing it
for you and if you don't have people
like me standing between you and China
you and a world that wants to see you
destroyed uh you're a fool it has to be
me you want these people giving us money
and you have to know that I'm moral I'm
not going to do things that aren't in
your best interest so yes I take money
and yes I do the right thing but they're
not fools they know what they're doing
and I really believe if you crack them
open that's what you're going to see I
don't buy for a [ __ ] second that
Hillary Clinton isn't at that Colonel
Jessup level where she's like she may
believe that she's truly doing it all
for the little people but holy hell
there's no way she's like oh I'm not
influenced by this oh no way I don't buy
it like yeah uh I so again it requires
Nuance so here's a good example of what
the model you're talking about I think
that Dick Cheney is Colonel Jessup and I
lo Dick Cheney right and so apparently
everybody in the country outside of KLA
Harris does and it was a shocking turn
of events when they were celebrating
that yes I yeah I mean God Democratic
establishment politicians are so stupid
like there's I I I'm not supposed to
call them stupid I just told you not to
call them stupid right they're in their
bubble but that bubble is so dumb right
how Dick Cheney pulls at
133% what part of that is complicated
and they're like no we're going to get
the Republicans in the suburbs but you
said that in 2016 and Hillary Clinton
only got 7% of the Republican vote after
you spent all of your money chasing
after Republicans you were never going
to get and then you did it again in 2020
and Biden only got 6% of the Republican
vote you did it again in 2024 and K
Harris only got 5% of the Republican
vote they are impervious to facts and
reason and logic because they're so
diluted by their own bubbles so Dick
Cheney but to go back to your Colonel
Jessup example probably thought I don't
know which of these theories he believed
in but peak oil or something along those
lines we need boots on the ground in the
Middle East because oil is such an
important uh natural resource that we
need to be able to control it if we have
unfriendly governments that can get
together uh and what if they get off of
the dollar the is even more important
than oil so yeah I know that they don't
have weapons of mass destruction I know
they not only that did they not do 911
that they're mortal enemies of al- Qaeda
it's not like Dick Cheney doesn't know
that he definitely knows that right and
he made a decision this is my inference
based on overwhelming evidence that I've
seen that yeah I'm going to lie to the
American people because they need me on
that wall right so he got himself to
believe he's the great hero and savior
of America and if they we hadn't gone
into Iraq blah blah blah right
but then when you talk about other
politicians they're not all like that
like Ted Cruz is a slime ball and he
knows he's a slimeball he knows that
there he's not going to eventually help
the American people he couldn't give a
rat's ass about the American people I
give you a and and again this is not
just oh I don't like Republicans or I
don't like the right no there this is
all based on facts so we've been
covering news and politics for over two
decades now so all of these stories
accumulated so on Ted Cruz if you
remember he did not endorse Donald Trump
in the 2016 Republican convention he
gave a speech and never endorsed Trump
and that was a big controversy and
they're like whoa because they were the
two main competitors at the end and and
if you remember Donald Trump had
insulted his wife and basically
insinuated that she was ugly and that
his uh father killed JFK I mean oh very
trumpan yeah yeah it's enormously
trumpan exactly so Ted Cruz out of
principal decided that he was going to
endorse Trump and then like two weeks
later I mean instantly I don't even know
if it took two weeks he's phone banking
for Donald Trump and he's on television
saying Donald Trump is the greatest and
we have to elect Donald Trump and Donald
Trump is the best so what the hell
happened well I read what happened what
happened was after the speech he goes up
to the uh Suites where all the donors
are and he goes to his main donor the
Mercers Robert and Rebecca Mercer they
have given him at at that point in that
primary loan $13
million what people don't realize is Ted
Cruz is not a politician he's a servant
he's a servant of the Mercers so he goes
up to their Suites suite and they slam
the door in his face and he's Shell
Shocked by it and they say to him look
we put the money into you in the primary
that we invested in you and it didn't
work out Trump W now Trump is going to
give us the corporate tax cuts we wanted
so now we're backing Trump
so shut up and back Trump and then once
he got his orders he immediately turned
around and said oh I love Donald Trump
Donald Trump is the best Etc be he
doesn't think he's Colonel Jessup he
doesn't think that you need him on that
wall he thinks oh money money oh I'm
dead Cruz he's a total freaking slime
ball he knows he's got to go lick the
ass of Robert Mercer and so he goes and
licks that ass it's not to be on a wall
it's not to protect any want is not to
do anything but look out for his own
self-interest and as lome as Dick Cheney
is and as terrible as his actions were
and as much as the it cost the country I
would argue that he had a better intent
than somebody like Ted Cruz who only
cares about himself and doesn't even
have any delusions of being Colonel
Jessie you see what I'm saying I do I
don't know anything about Ted Cruz so I
don't have a read on that but um now but
you could take Ted Cruz and subst I mean
98% of politicians are like Ted Cruz Ted
Cruz is just the most flamboy one of the
most flamboyant of them help me
understand the left versus right split
what causes
that I mean partly it's a matter of
genuine policy disagreements and um and
I actually think it's partly a matter of
nature uh that you're probably born
conservative or or born um um
Progressive or much detail on that as
you can I find that very compelling and
then but there's also a cultural element
too um so I'll start uh all the way in
the beginning I I think that um we have
hardware and software in our brains so
our Hardware is our
DNA so that's hardwired in and there's
nothing you could do about about that
your brain is structured in a certain
way you have certain proclivities Etc
then our software is all of our cultural
influences that uh inform us educate us
oftentimes deceive us um and so what are
the cultural influences uh your
community your family your friends
family and friends are very different
very different influences right and and
very very importantly media and so so
now let's talk about software first and
I come back to the hardware in software
well you have the red states where you
have a lot more conservatives or
Republicans and you have the blue states
where you have a lot more people on the
left part of that is
is doesn't have to do with software if
you are if your Hardware says no change
you're going to stay in your hometown
you're not going to go to the coast if
your Hardware says you like change or
you need change you go to California you
go to New York so the left starts to go
to the coast more because they're more
in favor of change but the main part is
in California you have media you have
culture that is very left wi in Alabama
you have Community culture family that
is very right-wing and so that's your
software and so when you're in a room
where everyone thinks the same thing you
know that uh psychology test where they
have a series of lines and they ask you
which one is the uh tallest line the
longest line and what you don't know is
that they told everyone else in the room
to pick the second tallest one as the
tallest one and then they see how many
people defy the Crow and pick the actual
longest line and the number is very
small it's terrifying yeah because and
so when you're in Alabama or you're in
Los Angeles you have to be super strong
to get past the cultural influence the
software that you're imbued with every
day as these people around you all say
well of course the Republicans are right
of course the right-wing is right or if
you're in La of course the Democrats are
right of course the Liberals are right
oh you don't believe that are you a
trump supporter and they look at at you
like you're evil and Etc so in La you're
worried about being labeled a trump
supporter in Alabama are you a liberal
do you dress up like a girl in the
middle of the night no no no no I don't
I don't I'm a republican I'm rightwing
so that software is super powerful let
alone when you get to the media level
where it's on steroids so what's your
Hardware Hardware is fre so what I tell
my friends on the left is the rightwing
are not bad guys sometimes they'll react
to us in a way that you go well they
sound like bad guys I mean we talking
about H1B visas and some of these guys
are saying don't let the goddamn Indians
in they're they're not real Americans
that's a bad guy thing to say right and
that's attacking me Etc so how can you
say that they're not bad guys well first
of all so of course some of them are
right we're all and that's a different
conversation but really it's not that
the main part of it is they circle the
wagons cons servers circle the wagons so
they believe in stability they believe
not as much change nice and easy and we
look out for our own so they're terrific
to their family they're terrific to
their Community their Church Etc but if
they perceive you as outsid