Kind: captions
Language: en
can I say this can we are we going on
YouTube does some of this get cut uh you
say literally anything you
want why do you think it would be bad to
have a law against hate speech I think
my issue is I wouldn't want the
government defining what they think is
bad because for instance I'm not a huge
fan of the food pyramid like what what
happens if what the government deems is
appropriate they decide veers into hate
speech or misinformation I don't think
the government as a body is smart enough
to determine what hate speech should be
as we can kind of see in Canada now so I
think hate speech laws are about as
dangerous as you're going to get in
terms of eroding a fundamental um
Freedom that I think your dad has summed
up better than anybody else speech is a
form of thought um I've I've been saying
for years as a quote I wish I remember
who said it but I speak not so that I
can be understood but so that I can
understand yeah and I'm like that's how
my mind works I process verbally I have
to say things out loud I have to be able
to test the idea but I am terrified of a
world in which we can't think out loud
and that people will um pass laws where
now all of a sudden you really are in
trouble because of something that you
were just trying to think through it
violates a law and now like you're
saying in the UK you wind up imprisoned
like that's insane to me and this is not
a vote for Russia but this is definitely
a vote against what's happening there if
the stat is to be believed more I think
it was 10 times more people were um
legally pursued for hate
speech in the UK than in Russia oh yeah
and I was like over the last year or
something and I was just like wow that
scares me so the last time I interviewed
your dad I think my opening question was
like imagine there was a Doomsday Clock
that was counting down to authoritarian
rule kind of like the the clock for
atomic energy what time would you put it
now we ducked the punch and so I never
got a time like I don't know if I'm I'm
being overly paranoid and uh I should
detach from it all and just live your
life or you can take the meta approach
and say everything is Downstream of
culture so it's possible I'm just being
overly paranoid but does that idea of an
authoritarian Doomsday Clock resonate
with you and if so what time is it
because of all the negative all of the
push back against
authoritarianism I think we're switching
directions so I'm actually rather
optimistic if we're on the Doomsday
Clock I would
say I think we almost hit it and we're
going the other way but I probably live
in a way where I I live as if we're
going in the other direction but I have
part of my focus on what if things
really go badly so I think politics have
a lot to do with it right now um but I
think there's a bunch of cultural push
back like I
talking out
against the really far-left woke culture
now is different than it was in 2017 in
2017 or in 2016 people were like that
doesn't even exist and then in 2018 2019
it was like okay it's definitely here
2020 it's definitely here but you can't
talk badly against it and then I think
now to 20124 we're starting to realize
oh maybe the downsides are quite evident
and I think there's quite a bit of push
back I think you can see that too with
the universities and all the protests
and things and how crazy that's gone
like it's spread so far that I think
there's enough push back that we're
going to go back towards the middle I
hope you've said that you're concerned
about your father Jordan Peterson his
forced media retraining you're worried
about how that's going to end what
exactly are you worried about I don't
think they can let him keep his license
when this started I said you know give
it give it back like relinquish it like
I don't know anybody else in as a
psychologist or a working professional
that would be able to afford fighting
back against something like this and I
think Dad basically made it more of a
moral thing that he had to do and he has
the money to be able to put into lawyers
to fight back against this to kind of
blow it up to show the world what's
going on in Canada and I left Canada I
moved because I could kind of see the
direction it was going in in
2021 so I do think he'll end up losing
his license though there's this fear in
the air really since covid in Canada so
if you're in the states and you go back
to Toronto which is where I'm from and
you land there everyone's still a little
bit I would say traumatized from covid
and being locked down and you can feel
it there and then there were these
rumors being thrown around about bills
that would basically criminalize things
you said on social media if they were
deemed hate speech and the definition of
what hate hate speech
is I mean Dad definitely delves into
that on occasion even if it's like
talking about trans problems or
criticizing the government like things
that you should be able to discuss might
be eventually deemed as hate speech and
then that would be a criminal offense
and they're toying around with the idea
of passing the bill I don't know if they
will so my concern especially with him
fighting the court case in Canada was he
was going to be living there while he's
doing it with the protests in London
people were posting things on social
media on Facebook in particular and
getting arrested in London in the UK I
think Canada and the UK are very similar
in that way and I was like that would
happen to my dad it would be like par
for the course at this point so it
wasn't tongue and cheek but I think it's
unlikely how do you think that's going
to play out so you said the election's
going to be important I very much agree
sort of uh my take is that the the
election is merely a
mile marker in where culture is at so I
don't think the election is going to
change culture I think is simply going
to say whether we're slightly one way or
the other um what do you think will
happen and what do you think will be the
response I think I would probably
disagree that it's a reflection of where
culture's at because I don't trust
politics at all so I don't even know
well I don't even know what's going on
behind the scenes there so I don't even
know can I say this can we are we going
on YouTube does some of this get cut uh
you say
free uh I like I I'm I'm not sure I
don't necessarily believe in in voter
fraud but I'm not sure if I trust the
system to count tickets properly oo yeah
I'm going to I like I can go that far so
I would say I think the country would go
in a better direction if Trump won um I
don't know if he's going to win and I
don't know how they're going to judge
who's going to win and so I think that
is going to determine how the next year
is going to play out okay whenever
somebody says something like that I
default to base assumptions I have a
very hard time explaining to people what
I'm trying to do so I'm really going to
take a minute and just say this all out
loud it is more important to understand
how somebody comes to a conclusion than
it is to understand the conclusion
itself so what you just said is going to
be very inflammatory and people are
going to go berserk in the comments
either saying that you're right or
you're wrong but people will very much
Galvanize on one side or the other
definitely um so I want to build up what
you see that leads you to that
conclusion so for the next few minutes I
just want to talk about base assumptions
great um so you have looked at the world
and either have just had an intuitive
emotional response that leads you to
believe that that's true or there's some
set of facts that you've looked at that
lead you to believe that that's true or
some combination there of can you
articulate what the things are that
you've encountered that L you to believe
that maybe because you certainly didn't
say it would be but that maybe the
election results won't be fair and open
so I I don't have any knowledge of
politics in that area that's more
intuitive and that intuition is based on
what I've seen in the food industry I
would say mainly which is also overseen
by areas of the government yeah so the
food pyramid basically was built by huge
influences
from food companies pushing products so
at one point they were like Sugar's a
weight loss food which it's clearly not
or fat is bad for you you know eat seed
oils so and and that's just starting at
red meat is bad for you high carb diets
is how people should eat just the entire
thing is so backwards and that was run
partially by government oversight and
that was almost upside down so if that's
the kind kind of product they're pushing
out I don't necessarily believe anything
else they're doing is true okay do you
believe that the food pyramid is a
result of malice or ignorance a little
bit of both mostly ignorance like I'm
sure the people pushing sugar didn't
realize how detrimental that would be
and I'm sure the people saying saturated
fat is bad for you didn't realize how
detrimental that would be um but it was
definitely influenced by corporate greed
as well people were going to make money
if their products sold more so that's
malicious so both what I'm trying to get
to is so take um my last company quest
uh I realized at one point hey we're
probably going to have to start lobbying
the government because they're anti-at
and they're Pro sugar and this is like
I'm realizing hey like this is really
problematic now I attributed
99.99999% to ignorance and back then I
would not have attributed it to malice
now yeah going down the path I get way
more concerned that they my my
overarching narrative is that the human
animal is controllable and therefore
people will rise to power that want to
control people yeah maybe for good maybe
they really have people's best interest
at heart but because we are controllable
people that desire control will rise to
the top okay so that's when of my base
assumptions uh which makes me very
nervous because I don't think that it I
don't think humans can be ruled well
from the top down so that's another base
assumption for me this is why I fear
authoritarian rule I just don't think it
works if I thought it worked then hey
maybe I could get behind it but I don't
so uh Quest teaches me a very similar
lesson that your experience with food
has taught you which is the government
should not be the Arbiter of what we
should eat whether it's malice or not
yeah um but none of me looking at the
food pyramid leads me to believe in
voter fraud so I I know first all people
listening are going to draw parallels
with what you said and so I'm just
trying to tease out there was more so
like I was super sick as a kid and when
I realized that I could get all these
health problems under control with my
diet and no medication I was really
angry at the medical system and that I
think most of the people working at it I
think a lot of that is ignorance they
just don't know that there are other
ways to treat people but that crushed me
for like four years I was almost mad at
every Medical Professional so I was like
why don't you look into other
Alternatives like how can you be telling
these chronically ill people that have
lifestyle diseases that they're stuck
being chronically ill for the rest of
their lives like how dare you take their
own ability to research and fix
themselves away from them by teaching
them that they have no control I was so
mad I don't trust the pharmaceutical
industry and not all of them like um I
have a friend who runs a pharmaceutical
company to treat rare
diseases nothing wrong with that right
but I think I have an Institutional
distrust and that probably spreads over
to like what else is out there just like
during Co a whole bunch of things that
ended up being true were called
conspiracies and now I even see
conspiracies have gone off the deep end
it's like well this conspiracy was right
and you said this was a conspiracy but
it was true and you said this was a
conspiracy and it was true true so maybe
they're all true so I mean voter fraud
could be pushed into a conspiracy but I
don't trust the government's ability I
just don't trust I just don't trust them
it's probably it's probably intuition
and then based off my experiences with
the food pyramid in the medical
establishment uh all right now do you
think that one side or the other getting
elected is better or worse I mean I do I
do say more uh I like I would I'm not
I'm Canadian so I don't have a say but I
would vote is your husband American he
is oh you have a say I know how I know
how marriage works homie uh so yeah I
would have probably I was a huge fan of
RFK but because I didn't think RFK could
win even though I really like him um so
I would I would vote for Trump for sure
um I don't even know how camela got to
where she is running and I'm not happy
that they hid the fact that Biden was so
sick and then like gaslit the entire
nation and then put some somebody else
up like oh you're going to vote for her
instead now I don't know seems pretty
like what you would hear about in Russia
throw Russia under the bus what do you
mean that is it manipulation that you're
getting at oh yeah propaganda just like
Nationwide gaslighting
like Biden doesn't seem well maybe he's
getting old no he's totally fine it's
like and then suddenly
okay no he's not fine and we're going to
put camela in instead which is what
everybody's been saying for like at
least a year and a half and then the
nation forgot and then you know what
reminds me of propaganda too the
messaging the camel is putting out now
where she's associated with joy and it's
just suddenly showing up in all the
mainstream Media newspapers a whole
bunch of different mainstream Media
newspapers at the same time reminds me
of propaganda I'd see coming out of a
country I didn't trust to put it bluntly
sure do you think that it will be
effective so I didn't was like there's
no way people are falling for this after
covid but then these kind of like
propaganda newspapers are saying about
camela being like why would you vote for
her oh CU she's going to make it more
joyful it's like oh my gosh Is that real
so I have no
idea do you I have a hypothesis so I
think this is about the architecture of
the human mind so the world is
obscenely complicated in fact your dad
has a quote about this uh uh I'm going
to I'm going to have to paraphrase you
you cannot adjudicate the world based on
facts because there is a fact for every
phenomenon there's too many phenomena to
build your world that way this is why
things like religion become useful
because they distill the world down into
a set of stories that tell you how to
act and then you know how to act yeah
and if he's right about that which I
actually think he is then we're just
speaking to the need for the human mind
to have a simple narrative that tells
them how to move forward and this is why
it feels like we're living in this sort
of great unmasking of the political
process I have a hunch and this
admittedly I am thinking through these
ideas in real time but I have a hunch
that uh for all of
recorded history Beyond like when you
were a really small tribe that even then
like even then I think that to Galvanize
a group of people you have to connect
dots and when I say connect dots I mean
tell a story so you have to say hey all
these things happened it started raining
and uh that means that God is happy
right so you you start connecting these
stories these dots into a cohesive story
and it allows people to share a world
view and to move forward and the need to
have a shared cohesive world view is how
this creature humans uh that can operate
in such large and flexible groups groups
are able to do what they do but you need
those simple narratives so I think the
reason that comma equals Joy works is
because people need a rule of thumb they
need a thing they can repeat to their
friends to explain their emotion but
really it's just emotion
so when I look at the political
process I am like I really just want to
be happy and optimistic and tell people
how great they can make their lives by
taking personal responsibility and all
that all that's true but
but uh there is a trifect of books which
I've talked about many times which if
you read them you will suddenly be like
okay that's true right now in the west
but it's not always been true throughout
history even in the west and so if you
read the gulg
archipelago brutal way that things can
go uh if you read the rise and fall of
the Third Reich and if you read ma the
unknown or untold story I can never
remember which you realize yo in recent
memory we're just talking like the last
100 years in recent memory things have
gone so badly that hundreds of millions
of people die okay so that's as
terrifying as I need it to be to go well
I just want to be optimistic there is a
reality to be faced with the
architecture of the human mind which
leads them to be taken down a primose
path and when it breaks it breaks bad
now eventually people write the ship but
wow oh it can get dark first it can get
real dark first yeah yeah yeah I I I
completely agree we're teaching all
those three books you mentioned we have
courses being taught on them at Peterson
Academy they are those are fantastic
books if I was going to give somebody a
primer for what the human animal is
capable of I agree I think it's naive
not to know that history like I kind of
grew up so I grew up with my dad as a
dad so he obviously like instilled those
Horrors was that like I was taught this
is how bad Humanity can get and if
you're not careful you're going to be on
the bad side you know and I was told at
that at a young age but I I was also
told every problem in your life is your
responsibility and you have the ability
to fix it which is really a hopeful
message right it's not you know it's a
little bit overwhelming if you realize
everything going wrong is your fault
somehow but if you're also told it's
your fault but you can fix it then it
just opens up a world of
possibility
so I think being taught at a young age
not to be naive about history was in
incredibly valuable but even me as a kid
I remember reading about Nazis or
something and being like well that was
in the 1940s and we already went through
that and like Ma and stallin and and all
that we already went through that
Society learned we're all taught it in
school everyone will remember and it'll
never happen again and then and then
things are feeling a little weird right
now got to say I'm still optimistic that
there we turning directions I've got a
lot of Jewish friends I think there's
like a lot of anti-em ISM that's on the
rise now and and and some history
rewriting that's going on on popular
podcasts that's like maybe maybe the
Nazis like maybe they really did have
good reasons to do what they did and
that's and then like we're not allowed
to talk about that which is why no one
ever talks about it but maybe we should
start talking about that again and I
didn't think I would see that kind of
thing in the open in my
life with the amount of support it has
right now so going back to base
assumptions what do you think is going
on that leads people to back to that
sort of weird point in want to get super
conspiratorial I have no evidence of any
of this so full disclosure intuition
conspiracy yeah and I haven't talked
about this before I was going to on my
podcast I think and this could entirely
be conspiratorial I think China's trying
to sew disruption in the US and what
we're experiencing
now is from that and I think the main
mode of communication they're probably
using is Tik Tok and that's why a lot of
this political craziness is hitting
younger people it's not hitting like 50
plus it's hitting Tik Tok users but I I
don't think China operates on the same
time span as Americans operate I think
they operate on like 200e time spans
with like longer plans um and I think
they've been probably been at this for a
while that's my
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impact okay let's push let's push into
the theory so are you saying that China
finds uh Jews to be a lightning rod
thing that they're trying to leverage I
think I think what happened with the
Hamas Palestine Israel like horror show
I think this is my algorithm so so just
come at it from my perspective I'm
politically in this day and age somewhat
conservative more libertarian but
somewhat conservative I've programmed my
Tik Tok algorithm to show me content I
like it's not really political like most
of it's most of it's like neutral or
makeup or something but but if I get a
political post it'll be something that's
kind of conservative it'll be like like
mostly like Christian or conservative or
something like that when the war broke
out my feet was completely flooded with
dead babies to a degree I I don't know
if you you've heard about this from
anyone else I asked my friends so I have
like a friend in Toronto and she's
always on Tik Tok she's she's more she's
way more liberal than me and and her
feed was flooded and she ended up being
like you know this is horrible this is
horrible a little anti-jewish just a
little anti-jewish and and I was like
you got to be careful because this has
happened many times for a very long time
and you don't want to be part of the
group that is like maybe the Jewish
people are the problem right um and she
got that I know she got that from Tik
Tok and I had to spend a good number of
days saying I don't want to see this I
don't want to see this I don't want to
see this on Tik Tok enough that it was
like I'm getting pushed this from
something and it was the platform
because I wasn't interacting with any of
the posts or anything so I think that
was a push to breed political disruption
and I think Jewish people were used as a
scapegoat as they've been used many
times
before
knowingly conspiracy conspiracy but
knowingly well it's funny via the
Chinese government using Tik Tok and and
maybe part of the reason they're like
why why would they do that what one I
think it's convenient and it's something
that could
breed problems politically like
widespread in the US but they also have
these Muslim concentration camps in
China where they're steril Iz in people
a lot of people and that's not talked
about
anywhere so why isn't that talked about
anywhere if the problem well I think
it's because China's controlling Tik
Tok I don't think it sounds that crazy
either but I like I could be in my
little like weird group of I don't know
libertarian weirdos well so this is why
I want people to pay attention to base
assumptions so if um if I can get people
to to walk along the path they will at
least say okay it's possible that thing
is happening so uh question number one
would be do you believe that people will
develop opinions based on what they see
over and over and over oh my gosh I
think most people will say yes I mean I
did throughout my life like I took
certain things as the truth that I found
out later weren't the truth it was just
like how especially if everybody thinks
the same thing and you probably
experienced this with Quest and like the
demonization of fat is it's kind of hard
to get into the mindset of well everyone
around me thinks this one thing but I
know that that one thing isn't
true and
eventually eventually Society will like
shift over you know ketogenic diets
being a fad too for a very long time and
now it's like the number of research
articles coming up about ketogenic diets
and diseases
skyrocketing but everyone for 15 years
was called a quack yeah so the the
series that I think people have to walk
down if you're just looking at it from
base assumptions is anything you repeat
is going to get into people's minds if
you repeat something enough it will seem
true even if it's just because it's
familiar uh algorithms create the
ability to repeat something over and
over and over uh that this if you can
create a sense of social proof around an
idea that people are even more likely to
believe that uh and we know that
algorithms can control what side of an
issue you see they can control the
sequencing of the comments so they can
put comments you're going to agree with
the Forefront uh and do governments
manipulate their adversar population
whenever possible like if you say yes to
all those things then it's like well
it's at least possible you may not see
any proof that it's actually happening
but it's like there's a that that would
be I mean you spelled it out pretty
correctly that would be my The Logical
framework at which I got to those
conclusions and we just saw with meta
and Mark Zuckerberg coming out and being
like yeah we were pressured pretty badly
and saying yeah we did censor content
which I think maybe put yourself in his
shoes as a human being he's not like a
you know some people think he's an alien
but but he's not some like robot right
if you have the FBI coming to you being
like do
this that's a that's pressure that most
people don't withstand and especially
with the limited information he had
about like well maybe I mean the
government is saying this information is
really dangerous and the FBI is saying
don't show it to
anybody maybe even if I think it's right
maybe I could be wrong because I'm
getting pushed back from these like
authoritative government heads I think
it's good he came out and said that they
were censoring content but the fact that
meta was censoring content I
mean how can you not think that there's
some weird things going on with Tik Tok
and I don't think every country
infiltrates every other country to like
give them propaganda but we know stories
from like this CIA doing you know
different things to different countries
propaganda is definitely real we've seen
multiple examples of that you can just
take Nazi Germany as an ex like a prime
example of that or even Soviet Union so
we know propaganda happens I just think
maybe we don't necessarily think it's
happening to us
now yeah if your dad is right and the
world cannot be um metabolized via facts
it has to be taken in as story and story
is quite propaganda just a story it's
I'm going to tell you the story that I
want you to hear from the frame of
reference that I want you to see things
uh and if you can control both what
people look at and what they see then
you have a tremendous amount of control
which is utterly fascinating because
that's the moment we're living in where
people are chronically on social media
and it controls what you look at and
certainly influences what you see yeah
it's really really interesting so the
question becomes what comes of all of
this what ends up being the societal
reaction what I try to do with my social
media is follow people who are
motivational and positive like forget
the politics that like really I think
that's what the average person should do
these wars too that we're in involved in
but we shouldn't be I don't even think
human beings can take on that kind of
stress like I take my friend in for
example in Toronto she's a mom she has
two kids she's being shown dead babies I
was like what tribe would you have
possibly been in where you wouldn't have
PTSD after spending 2 hours looking at
this no human being is meant to be
exposed to the entire world of pain that
exists so follow motivational people
follow business people uh I follow
Christian
people follow people who don't drag you
into these political battles that we're
having and then try to reorganize your
own life so that every day is a slight
improvement from the last day or at
least your traj your trajectory is up
and just ignore the politics for now I
think with the Trans debate that's worth
talking about but at a level you can
tolerate and I think most of your time
should be spent on trying to fix your
own life and looking at people who are
motivational because I don't think
people can handle how dark things can
get like I think you should read those
three books that you mentioned and be
aware that that's how societ can go but
you don't need to be staring at it every
day this is like when I was a kid my dad
wouldn't let us watch the news he was
like the news was always
like serial killers loose in Toronto
bleeds it and I remember like oh grade
four serial killers loose like that's
terrifying or you know so and so's been
beaten or robbed or died or something's
on fire and that was the news right and
now unfortunately we have the news on
social media on our phone all the time
uh and I don't think people's nervous
system can handle it just like causes
anxiety and depression ruins your life
follow people like you like motivational
people maybe you might delve into these
like darker topics but my audience is
screaming right now that uh I've gone so
into world affairs that that's a big
complaint about uh my change it's
interesting uh so I try to do things by
platform so if you want the motivational
side go over Instagram or watch me
stream video games I actually do a lot
of mindset stuff in video games but um
I'm a big believer that uh it is very
important to build a mindset so that you
can point it at the biggest most
important things in your life yes uh
because of this weird thing that I see
happening in culture I cannot help but
try to look at those things head on fa
enough I think your advice is actually
really solid um I want to talk about
something that you you said earlier one
of the things that you follow is
Christian content it has been from the
outside utterly fascinating to watch the
religious Awakening of the Peter
Peterson household yeah walk me through
that because your dad started by saying
I act as if God is real and then I
recently heard you say um I'm
paraphrasing but uh I used to believe
but now I know the Bible is true yeah
okay so this this is a from outside
viewership this is a big swing walk me
through what happened it was a very big
swing um so I think first what happened
is you know my dad's always taught about
how the Bible's important from a
psychological perspective and that you
should act like Christ because that's
the best way a human can act um terrible
paraphrasing but that's what he taught
me as a kid uh and then in
2019 my mom got really sick and she got
cancer and uh story to shorten the story
quite a lot she goes I'm going to be
healed by our anniversary and I didn't
like I didn't believe at that point and
she was in the hospital for I I can't
exactly remember but it was over two and
a half months and there was a surgery
and then there was a surgical kind of
mishap and she had to be flown to the
states and then they couldn't fix it um
and then on so she was in the midst of
them trying to fix a surgical injury
that they couldn't fix and then on Mom
and Dad's anniversary it fixed
itself I still get goosebumps from that
cuz it was like how as a more rational
person and I would say the more rational
you are the harder it is to have faith
in something um I was like how can I
figure that one out because she I said
how did you know and she said God told
me and I was
like that's too coincidental for my
rational brain to be like you know what
are the odds of that like nothing like
zero the surgeons were all shocked think
about when she said God told me I
thought m's on morphine literally she
was on painkillers in the hospital I was
like as long as that's like giving her
some hope good but was like she's on
morphine that was my thought at the time
so then why not when it does heal on the
exact day that she said it would why
does your mind not immediately go to
Placebo or something like that um oh my
gosh cuz it couldn't have been Placebo
it was like to get into the details
they' nicked a lymph duct and there was
lymph leaking into her and they were
trying to fix it and it's very difficult
to find a leak and they couldn't fix it
and so she came out of surgery and
they're like we couldn't find the the
basically the nicked lymph duct and then
that was just kind of it and then it
just healed and so she goes you
know you know God saved me and then her
disposition towards everything changed
her demeanor
changed uh she spent spent the next
couple of years converting to
Catholicism but it was the patience she
had after that wasn't something I'd seen
her have throughout my entire life like
she could be very short and
irritable uh and a bit unforgiving and
she won't even be mad at me saying this
and then her demeanor changed and it was
like you have way more compassion than
you did and I don't even think I don't
think it was from the stint she spent
really suffering ing I don't think it
was that I think it was her being saved
and her conversion that gave her that
and I watched that and I was like I want
that whatever that is whatever happened
to her I want that for me and having my
dad as a dad who's very rational as well
it was just like doesn't there's no
logical explanation why and um I had
this
extremely you know extreme Heavenly
perspective and it was basically
you as a human don't have the ability to
rationalize
God that's why you need to have faith
and I was just like why did I
never understand that like everyone says
have faith and I didn't really
understand that faith is believing
without having evidence to prove it
otherwise you wouldn't need to have
faith and for some reason and I don't
know if that's going to resonate with
anyone else but that's what resonated
with me and then it was just
like floodgates open and I was like oh
that's what people mean that's what like
all these Christian weirdos that I've
been around are talking about this
overwhelming feeling of forgiveness you
get I guess once you once you get saved
and have faith and all and all these
things just lined up for me and like
I don't know 30 seconds and then after
that like my whole world viiew changed
so I was like things make more sense and
this is what my dad has been talking
about too understanding things through a
narrative so even having my dad as a dad
I'm like I'm a human being I'm trying to
understand things factually being like
what can I see that's true that you can
prove okay there's one belief and then
what else can I see that's true that you
can prove there's another belief and
then build on top of those but I had a
complete change in perspective that was
like we're living in a spiritual world
where there are things people can't see
but maybe can Inuit it uh the highest
good is truth and truth down to its core
um and then I I've realized what
Christians were saying about Sin and and
what sin looks like and I don't think I
was able to recognize sin properly
before I was Christian I do want to go
back back and start now teasing some of
these ideas apart so um I had one line
of questioning that I was going to
follow until you said truth matters and
I mean truth all the way down so your um
Dad and Sam Harris famously got bogged
down in trying to Define what is true so
what and that makes sense to me I think
it is shockingly difficult to actually
Define truth um so so why does truth
matter and if it really does matter how
do we Define it okay well I guess I'll
just go ahead and say it I I think
there's um a like a spiritual war going
around that we don't see that can kind
of rear its head in politics and in evil
in the
world and I think the only way to combat
that is by being 100% truthful and if
you're not 100% truthful then you're
contributing to that evil
in the spiritual
realm so that's going to be my answer
okay truthful versus true seems very
different so truthful to me the way that
I would Define it is I believe these
things and therefore I'm going to tell
you exactly what I believe but that
person may not have identified truth
they could be completely off the rails
well even like this this theory about
China infiltrating the US I'm not going
to say that's true I have no idea so is
it important to be truthful full or to
identify the truth it kind of pains me
to say this cuz my dad taught me this
for my entire life said like no matter
what you have to tell the truth but I
was like yeah but what
if what if your friend shows up and
she's really happy and her hat is kind
of ugly but she's really happy with the
outfit do you actually have to say do
you actually have to tell her what you
think and I think yes now and I'm not
sure if I thought yes as hard as I do
now before I don't think you can know
what is true with without having a
Heavenly perspective on say so much more
what does that mean like I I think the
so the way I was acting before I got
saved versus how I react to the world
now the way I was acting was how I
thought a good person should
act and I think I was doing an okay job
but then God was like you're not um so I
I and the problem with how I was acting
before was I couldn't identify the micro
sins I was doing so like even just kind
of a someone says something annoying and
you're like I don't have time for this
even that I was shown isn't the way that
you should act let me give you my
definition of Truth and then let me stab
at what I think you're saying your
definition of Truth is okay my
definition of truth would be an accurate
description of the physical world so
Einstein got close to truth he didn't
get all the way there because he doesn't
have a theory of everything that to me
is what is true it is the physical laws
of the Universe from which everything is
born now what I hear you saying what is
true is accuracy to spiritual alignment
with God's desire for you yes that yes
and I also I do partly agree with you
because there's like physical realities
of the world um but I do think I do
think I would put God above that okay so
there is truthfulness in terms of uh
almost a shame that we use the same word
but there is truthfulness that will keep
your soul clean aligned I'm not sure
what word will feel right there but for
for a reason I won't speculate on yet
God wants you to be that way that will
be better for you better for society if
you're always truthful the truth capital
T the capital T Truth uh that is God has
a plan for how humans ought to be and
when you're in alignment with that
you're in alignment with the truth yeah
okay cool I now that was pretty good I
now this is the first time I had to
stumble along that story I wasn't quite
prepared for it fair we got there so now
I understand what you're saying because
it drives me crazy when people have
debates and they just didn't take time
to Define base assumtions dad's debate
with yeah so when going back to the last
interview I did with your dad I can't
remember if I said this on camera or off
but I was like Jordan I think that your
I was very confused when you went from
being the internet's dad to writing a
book called we who wrestle with God but
because he is so bright and has really
been a part of my sensemaking apparatus
I was like chesterton's fence before I
say this doesn't make sense let me make
sure that I understand what he's doing
and then I can decide if this is the
next logical step once I understood what
I think he's doing I was like oh I get
why this is a continuation of all right
I help helped you get out of the M of um
feeling lost and hopeless but now that
you're not lost and hopeless you need an
aim and that aim is an aim that should
make your life better your family's life
better civilization's life better okay
cool I get why he's now going over to
religion I really believe that humans
think in stories religion as far as I
can tell is the only um meme medium by
which good ideas can spread not only
across time and in any place on Earth
but also across levels of intellect so
whether you're a literal by definition
[ __ ] or you're a Super Genius both of
those people can encounter religion and
and see something that makes their life
better and it's like oh my God like I
see the truth right and so I'm utterly
fascinated I don't I don't believe we
have yet found anything that leverages
the AR architecture of the human mind so
perfectly to get us to work together in
these large flexible groups okay so I
think religion is the only thing that's
withstood the test of time there are
some new entrance into the field with
religious like ideology but religion I
know works but then it begs the question
of am I missing a trick if I act as if
religion is true but no that it's not
which is how I feel like there's so many
great ideas if I live in a with the
great ideas but don't think that this is
the word of God yeah is my life somehow
fundamentally worse than somebody who
does all the same actions I do but they
also believe it's the literal word in
which case if somebody is trying to help
people to the max they have to get you
to truly take that leap of faith and
belief I think what my dad tells people
is if you even if you don't have faith
if you act in that way and that's why
the term cultural Christian is also
popping up here and there um then you'll
improve your life dramatically which I
agree and I think that's the best thing
people can do I think from my
conversion if you have faith then you're
an entirely different realm than that I
had a fear of death that I don't have
anymore and it wasn't something that I
was like up at night about because
everybody knows they're going to die and
everything but that's just gone and it
turns out that sucks just for Humanity
to have that so that's gone and I wasn't
even an anxious person before like I
have a number of successful companies
have a podcast I have my health issues
under control nobody in my family is
sick I'm in a great relationship like I
have it I am so grateful at how my life
has turned out after a lot of years of
horror
um but even going from that to having
faith has eliminated a lot of the
existential I guess angst that just
haunted me being a human how would you
convince somebody that God is
real I would probably tell them the
story about my mom and walk them
through you know I totally get where
people are coming from when they're like
that sounds like a nice naive fairy tale
for people who can't handle death and
don't believe in
evolution which is probably how I kind
of
characterized Christians I was like
those are people that thought Harry
Potter was evil and um um so I'd
probably say I was like that um and then
I saw what happened to my mom which was
I couldn't
rationalize and then I started mimicking
the steps of a
Christian um I didn't go to church very
often but I was watching sermons online
and I was reading the Bible and I was
praying and I was like this feels right
but I didn't like fully to my core have
faith and then and then I got to a l low
point and I think I was really
struggling with like how do I believe in
something that I can't rationalize like
how are you supposed to believe that to
your core if you can't prove it or if no
one can prove it that's that's even
harder and then it occurred to me that
like the entire everything spelled out
in the New Testament anyway is you need
Faith wouldn't be called faith if
someone could come to you and rationally
explain it now what do you think about
Rolo tomasi's read on that women find
God in their late 20s when they can no
long when they realize they can no
longer compete with women who are in
their early
20s um I think Rolo tamasi is a scumbag
that's like my that's my main take
um and I think he hates women so I think
that is evident about like throughout
what he teaches people and all his
videos so I'm not surprised he'd say
something like that I could he said it
to you in your the interview oh that
I've blocked that out of my head so
successfully I yeah yeah I no I forgot
about that um I mean I guess I don't
really care what he thinks he doesn't
seem like a happy person plus people say
anything they want about me online and I
really I really don't care how do you
deal with
that I think maybe in 2018 it bothered
me more
more but I mean you know what I do okay
so we we launched this Peterson Academy
company and there's been and for some
reason that like criticism of that hurts
me more than criticism of me maybe
because maybe because it's new and I've
gotten used to criticism of me
yeah which is silly I guess but um but
then you look at Elon telling people
he's going to launch a rocket to
Mars and the comments are just like who
why don't you just cure world hunger and
I was like who why don't you cure world
hunger I like how about that's epic
right I figure if Elon Musk is getting
criticism for his insane Ventures and
like bringing internet to everywhere
building underground tunnels trying to
make cars
electric so that we pollute less like
these huge things he's doing um the AI
stuff you know everything if he's
getting criticism then I'm definitely
going to get criticism
and so I think I just know that people
are critics and resentful people in
particular that know that there are
things in their own life that they could
be improving and aren't are like well
why that person deserve that I was like
I don't know improve your own life it's
hard try it so I guess I just don't I
guess I don't just don't care speaking
of improving your life you got divorced
and you were on camera through it all
and you were leaking a a lot of anxiety
about I don't know if I'm going to find
anybody again I'm okay being alone but
now you found somebody you're remarried
a new child what was that process like
how especially somebody who's taken a
lot of flak for being an alpha woman uh
how did that process go how does an
alpha woman find love
again as a business owner I'm guessing
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Theory I'm more of a Libertarian like
there are certain things I don't like
and certain things things I like but I
think because I'm surrounded more about
conservatives I had this idea that
because I had a baby and I was a single
mom you know it scared me I was like my
value is was like who wants this amount
of baggage and so when he asked me to
marry him I literally told him all of
that I was like okay but like you don't
realize what you're getting into here
I'm not even sure if you actually want
this like I work very closely with my
family and I don't plan on stopping I
work all the time I have a
kid
um there was more things um that I
thought were an issue and he was just
like I don't care I was like wow I know
Rolo tomasi talks about the statistics
all all the time about single moms and
how awful they are but there's also like
who left them I think I was more anti-
single mom obviously and then I became
one and maybe that was God being like
humble yourself I've had I've had other
conservative women too who have been
worried about telling people they're
divorced online because they're part of
a conservative community and they think
they're going to get completely
lambasted By Their audience for doing
something wrong and I've been telling
them first of all I don't think the
feedback is going to be as bad as you
think it is a lot of people experience
divorce and a lot of sane people
experienc divorce it's not just troubled
people who experienced divorce to the
idea of the Overton window widening I
think we're moving away from these
really sort of absurdly uh narrow
definitions of um the relationship
between the Sexes but it is very
interesting to see somebody who's a CEO
of a very fast growing company which by
the way congratulations thank you uh
very exciting
and my wife has always been the standard
Bearer for me she is a very tough woman
she's a great entrepreneur the best
business partner I've ever had she's
amazing amazing but if she didn't like
being small in my arms if she didn't
want me to lead then we'd have a problem
and