Kind: captions
Language: en
can I say this can we are we going on
YouTube does some of this get cut uh you
say literally anything you
want why do you think it would be bad to
have a law against hate speech I think
my issue is I wouldn't want the
government defining what they think is
bad because for instance I'm not a huge
fan of the food pyramid like what what
happens if what the government deems is
appropriate they decide veers into hate
speech or misinformation I don't think
the government as a body is smart enough
to determine what hate speech should be
as we can kind of see in Canada now so I
think hate speech laws are about as
dangerous as you're going to get in
terms of eroding a fundamental um
Freedom that I think your dad has summed
up better than anybody else speech is a
form of thought um I've I've been saying
for years as a quote I wish I remember
who said it but I speak not so that I
can be understood but so that I can
understand yeah and I'm like that's how
my mind works I process verbally I have
to say things out loud I have to be able
to test the idea but I am terrified of a
world in which we can't think out loud
and that people will um pass laws where
now all of a sudden you really are in
trouble because of something that you
were just trying to think through it
violates a law and now like you're
saying in the UK you wind up imprisoned
like that's insane to me and this is not
a vote for Russia but this is definitely
a vote against what's happening there if
the stat is to be believed more I think
it was 10 times more people were um
legally pursued for hate
speech in the UK than in Russia oh yeah
and I was like over the last year or
something and I was just like wow that
scares me so the last time I interviewed
your dad I think my opening question was
like imagine there was a Doomsday Clock
that was counting down to authoritarian
rule kind of like the the clock for
atomic energy what time would you put it
now we ducked the punch and so I never
got a time like I don't know if I'm I'm
being overly paranoid and uh I should
detach from it all and just live your
life or you can take the meta approach
and say everything is Downstream of
culture so it's possible I'm just being
overly paranoid but does that idea of an
authoritarian Doomsday Clock resonate
with you and if so what time is it
because of all the negative all of the
push back against
authoritarianism I think we're switching
directions so I'm actually rather
optimistic if we're on the Doomsday
Clock I would
say I think we almost hit it and we're
going the other way but I probably live
in a way where I I live as if we're
going in the other direction but I have
part of my focus on what if things
really go badly so I think politics have
a lot to do with it right now um but I
think there's a bunch of cultural push
back like I
talking out
against the really far-left woke culture
now is different than it was in 2017 in
2017 or in 2016 people were like that
doesn't even exist and then in 2018 2019
it was like okay it's definitely here
2020 it's definitely here but you can't
talk badly against it and then I think
now to 20124 we're starting to realize
oh maybe the downsides are quite evident
and I think there's quite a bit of push
back I think you can see that too with
the universities and all the protests
and things and how crazy that's gone
like it's spread so far that I think
there's enough push back that we're
going to go back towards the middle I
hope you've said that you're concerned
about your father Jordan Peterson his
forced media retraining you're worried
about how that's going to end what
exactly are you worried about I don't
think they can let him keep his license
when this started I said you know give
it give it back like relinquish it like
I don't know anybody else in as a
psychologist or a working professional
that would be able to afford fighting
back against something like this and I
think Dad basically made it more of a
moral thing that he had to do and he has
the money to be able to put into lawyers
to fight back against this to kind of
blow it up to show the world what's
going on in Canada and I left Canada I
moved because I could kind of see the
direction it was going in in
2021 so I do think he'll end up losing
his license though there's this fear in
the air really since covid in Canada so
if you're in the states and you go back
to Toronto which is where I'm from and
you land there everyone's still a little
bit I would say traumatized from covid
and being locked down and you can feel
it there and then there were these
rumors being thrown around about bills
that would basically criminalize things
you said on social media if they were
deemed hate speech and the definition of
what hate hate speech
is I mean Dad definitely delves into
that on occasion even if it's like
talking about trans problems or
criticizing the government like things
that you should be able to discuss might
be eventually deemed as hate speech and
then that would be a criminal offense
and they're toying around with the idea
of passing the bill I don't know if they
will so my concern especially with him
fighting the court case in Canada was he
was going to be living there while he's
doing it with the protests in London
people were posting things on social
media on Facebook in particular and
getting arrested in London in the UK I
think Canada and the UK are very similar
in that way and I was like that would
happen to my dad it would be like par
for the course at this point so it
wasn't tongue and cheek but I think it's
unlikely how do you think that's going
to play out so you said the election's
going to be important I very much agree
sort of uh my take is that the the
election is merely a
mile marker in where culture is at so I
don't think the election is going to
change culture I think is simply going
to say whether we're slightly one way or
the other um what do you think will
happen and what do you think will be the
response I think I would probably
disagree that it's a reflection of where
culture's at because I don't trust
politics at all so I don't even know
well I don't even know what's going on
behind the scenes there so I don't even
know can I say this can we are we going
on YouTube does some of this get cut uh
you say
free uh I like I I'm I'm not sure I
don't necessarily believe in in voter
fraud but I'm not sure if I trust the
system to count tickets properly oo yeah
I'm going to I like I can go that far so
I would say I think the country would go
in a better direction if Trump won um I
don't know if he's going to win and I
don't know how they're going to judge
who's going to win and so I think that
is going to determine how the next year
is going to play out okay whenever
somebody says something like that I
default to base assumptions I have a
very hard time explaining to people what
I'm trying to do so I'm really going to
take a minute and just say this all out
loud it is more important to understand
how somebody comes to a conclusion than
it is to understand the conclusion
itself so what you just said is going to
be very inflammatory and people are
going to go berserk in the comments
either saying that you're right or
you're wrong but people will very much
Galvanize on one side or the other
definitely um so I want to build up what
you see that leads you to that
conclusion so for the next few minutes I
just want to talk about base assumptions
great um so you have looked at the world
and either have just had an intuitive
emotional response that leads you to
believe that that's true or there's some
set of facts that you've looked at that
lead you to believe that that's true or
some combination there of can you
articulate what the things are that
you've encountered that L you to believe
that maybe because you certainly didn't
say it would be but that maybe the
election results won't be fair and open
so I I don't have any knowledge of
politics in that area that's more
intuitive and that intuition is based on
what I've seen in the food industry I
would say mainly which is also overseen
by areas of the government yeah so the
food pyramid basically was built by huge
influences
from food companies pushing products so
at one point they were like Sugar's a
weight loss food which it's clearly not
or fat is bad for you you know eat seed
oils so and and that's just starting at
red meat is bad for you high carb diets
is how people should eat just the entire
thing is so backwards and that was run
partially by government oversight and
that was almost upside down so if that's
the kind kind of product they're pushing
out I don't necessarily believe anything
else they're doing is true okay do you
believe that the food pyramid is a
result of malice or ignorance a little
bit of both mostly ignorance like I'm
sure the people pushing sugar didn't
realize how detrimental that would be
and I'm sure the people saying saturated
fat is bad for you didn't realize how
detrimental that would be um but it was
definitely influenced by corporate greed
as well people were going to make money
if their products sold more so that's
malicious so both what I'm trying to get
to is so take um my last company quest
uh I realized at one point hey we're
probably going to have to start lobbying
the government because they're anti-at
and they're Pro sugar and this is like
I'm realizing hey like this is really
problematic now I attributed
99.99999% to ignorance and back then I
would not have attributed it to malice
now yeah going down the path I get way
more concerned that they my my
overarching narrative is that the human
animal is controllable and therefore
people will rise to power that want to
control people yeah maybe for good maybe
they really have people's best interest
at heart but because we are controllable
people that desire control will rise to
the top okay so that's when of my base
assumptions uh which makes me very
nervous because I don't think that it I
don't think humans can be ruled well
from the top down so that's another base
assumption for me this is why I fear
authoritarian rule I just don't think it
works if I thought it worked then hey
maybe I could get behind it but I don't
so uh Quest teaches me a very similar
lesson that your experience with food
has taught you which is the government
should not be the Arbiter of what we
should eat whether it's malice or not
yeah um but none of me looking at the
food pyramid leads me to believe in
voter fraud so I I know first all people
listening are going to draw parallels
with what you said and so I'm just
trying to tease out there was more so
like I was super sick as a kid and when
I realized that I could get all these
health problems under control with my
diet and no medication I was really
angry at the medical system and that I
think most of the people working at it I
think a lot of that is ignorance they
just don't know that there are other
ways to treat people but that crushed me
for like four years I was almost mad at
every Medical Professional so I was like
why don't you look into other
Alternatives like how can you be telling
these chronically ill people that have
lifestyle diseases that they're stuck
being chronically ill for the rest of
their lives like how dare you take their
own ability to research and fix
themselves away from them by teaching
them that they have no control I was so
mad I don't trust the pharmaceutical
industry and not all of them like um I
have a friend who runs a pharmaceutical
company to treat rare
diseases nothing wrong with that right
but I think I have an Institutional
distrust and that probably spreads over
to like what else is out there just like
during Co a whole bunch of things that
ended up being true were called
conspiracies and now I even see
conspiracies have gone off the deep end
it's like well this conspiracy was right
and you said this was a conspiracy but
it was true and you said this was a
conspiracy and it was true true so maybe
they're all true so I mean voter fraud
could be pushed into a conspiracy but I
don't trust the government's ability I
just don't trust I just don't trust them
it's probably it's probably intuition
and then based off my experiences with
the food pyramid in the medical
establishment uh all right now do you
think that one side or the other getting
elected is better or worse I mean I do I
do say more uh I like I would I'm not
I'm Canadian so I don't have a say but I
would vote is your husband American he
is oh you have a say I know how I know
how marriage works homie uh so yeah I
would have probably I was a huge fan of
RFK but because I didn't think RFK could
win even though I really like him um so
I would I would vote for Trump for sure
um I don't even know how camela got to
where she is running and I'm not happy
that they hid the fact that Biden was so
sick and then like gaslit the entire
nation and then put some somebody else
up like oh you're going to vote for her
instead now I don't know seems pretty
like what you would hear about in Russia
throw Russia under the bus what do you
mean that is it manipulation that you're
getting at oh yeah propaganda just like
Nationwide gaslighting
like Biden doesn't seem well maybe he's
getting old no he's totally fine it's
like and then suddenly
okay no he's not fine and we're going to
put camela in instead which is what
everybody's been saying for like at
least a year and a half and then the
nation forgot and then you know what
reminds me of propaganda too the
messaging the camel is putting out now
where she's associated with joy and it's
just suddenly showing up in all the
mainstream Media newspapers a whole
bunch of different mainstream Media
newspapers at the same time reminds me
of propaganda I'd see coming out of a
country I didn't trust to put it bluntly
sure do you think that it will be
effective so I didn't was like there's
no way people are falling for this after
covid but then these kind of like
propaganda newspapers are saying about
camela being like why would you vote for
her oh CU she's going to make it more
joyful it's like oh my gosh Is that real
so I have no
idea do you I have a hypothesis so I
think this is about the architecture of
the human mind so the world is
obscenely complicated in fact your dad
has a quote about this uh uh I'm going
to I'm going to have to paraphrase you
you cannot adjudicate the world based on
facts because there is a fact for every
phenomenon there's too many phenomena to
build your world that way this is why
things like religion become useful
because they distill the world down into
a set of stories that tell you how to
act and then you know how to act yeah
and if he's right about that which I
actually think he is then we're just
speaking to the need for the human mind
to have a simple narrative that tells
them how to move forward and this is why
it feels like we're living in this sort
of great unmasking of the political
process I have a hunch and this
admittedly I am thinking through these
ideas in real time but I have a hunch
that uh for all of
recorded history Beyond like when you
were a really small tribe that even then
like even then I think that to Galvanize
a group of people you have to connect
dots and when I say connect dots I mean
tell a story so you have to say hey all
these things happened it started raining
and uh that means that God is happy
right so you you start connecting these
stories these dots into a cohesive story
and it allows people to share a world
view and to move forward and the need to
have a shared cohesive world view is how
this creature humans uh that can operate
in such large and flexible groups groups
are able to do what they do but you need
those simple narratives so I think the
reason that comma equals Joy works is
because people need a rule of thumb they
need a thing they can repeat to their
friends to explain their emotion but
really it's just emotion
so when I look at the political
process I am like I really just want to
be happy and optimistic and tell people
how great they can make their lives by
taking personal responsibility and all
that all that's true but
but uh there is a trifect of books which
I've talked about many times which if
you read them you will suddenly be like
okay that's true right now in the west
but it's not always been true throughout
history even in the west and so if you
read the gulg
archipelago brutal way that things can
go uh if you read the rise and fall of
the Third Reich and if you read ma the
unknown or untold story I can never
remember which you realize yo in recent
memory we're just talking like the last
100 years in recent memory things have
gone so badly that hundreds of millions
of people die okay so that's as
terrifying as I need it to be to go well
I just want to be optimistic there is a
reality to be faced with the
architecture of the human mind which
leads them to be taken down a primose
path and when it breaks it breaks bad
now eventually people write the ship but
wow oh it can get dark first it can get
real dark first yeah yeah yeah I I I
completely agree we're teaching all
those three books you mentioned we have
courses being taught on them at Peterson
Academy they are those are fantastic
books if I was going to give somebody a
primer for what the human animal is
capable of I agree I think it's naive
not to know that history like I kind of
grew up so I grew up with my dad as a
dad so he obviously like instilled those
Horrors was that like I was taught this
is how bad Humanity can get and if
you're not careful you're going to be on
the bad side you know and I was told at
that at a young age but I I was also
told every problem in your life is your
responsibility and you have the ability
to fix it which is really a hopeful
message right it's not you know it's a
little bit overwhelming if you realize
everything going wrong is your fault
somehow but if you're also told it's
your fault but you can fix it then it
just opens up a world of
possibility
so I think being taught at a young age
not to be naive about history was in
incredibly valuable but even me as a kid
I remember reading about Nazis or
something and being like well that was
in the 1940s and we already went through
that and like Ma and stallin and and all
that we already went through that
Society learned we're all taught it in
school everyone will remember and it'll
never happen again and then and then
things are feeling a little weird right
now got to say I'm still optimistic that
there we turning directions I've got a
lot of Jewish friends I think there's
like a lot of anti-em ISM that's on the
rise now and and and some history
rewriting that's going on on popular
podcasts that's like maybe maybe the
Nazis like maybe they really did have
good reasons to do what they did and
that's and then like we're not allowed
to talk about that which is why no one
ever talks about it but maybe we should
start talking about that again and I
didn't think I would see that kind of
thing in the open in my
life with the amount of support it has
right now so going back to base
assumptions what do you think is going
on that leads people to back to that
sort of weird point in want to get super
conspiratorial I have no evidence of any
of this so full disclosure intuition
conspiracy yeah and I haven't talked
about this before I was going to on my
podcast I think and this could entirely
be conspiratorial I think China's trying
to sew disruption in the US and what
we're experiencing
now is from that and I think the main
mode of communication they're probably
using is Tik Tok and that's why a lot of
this political craziness is hitting
younger people it's not hitting like 50
plus it's hitting Tik Tok users but I I
don't think China operates on the same
time span as Americans operate I think
they operate on like 200e time spans
with like longer plans um and I think
they've been probably been at this for a
while that's my
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impact okay let's push let's push into
the theory so are you saying that China
finds uh Jews to be a lightning rod
thing that they're trying to leverage I
think I think what happened with the
Hamas Palestine Israel like horror show
I think this is my algorithm so so just
come at it from my perspective I'm
politically in this day and age somewhat
conservative more libertarian but
somewhat conservative I've programmed my
Tik Tok algorithm to show me content I
like it's not really political like most
of it's most of it's like neutral or
makeup or something but but if I get a
political post it'll be something that's
kind of conservative it'll be like like
mostly like Christian or conservative or
something like that when the war broke
out my feet was completely flooded with
dead babies to a degree I I don't know
if you you've heard about this from
anyone else I asked my friends so I have
like a friend in Toronto and she's
always on Tik Tok she's she's more she's
way more liberal than me and and her
feed was flooded and she ended up being
like you know this is horrible this is
horrible a little anti-jewish just a
little anti-jewish and and I was like
you got to be careful because this has
happened many times for a very long time
and you don't want to be part of the
group that is like maybe the Jewish
people are the problem right um and she
got that I know she got that from Tik
Tok and I had to spend a good number of
days saying I don't want to see this I
don't want to see this I don't want to
see this on Tik Tok enough that it was
like I'm getting pushed this from
something and it was the platform
because I wasn't interacting with any of
the posts or anything so I think that
was a push to breed political disruption
and I think Jewish people were used as a
scapegoat as they've been used many
times
before
knowingly conspiracy conspiracy but
knowingly well it's funny via the
Chinese government using Tik Tok and and
maybe part of the reason they're like
why why would they do that what one I
think it's convenient and it's something
that could
breed problems politically like
widespread in the US but they also have
these Muslim concentration camps in
China where they're steril Iz in people
a lot of people and that's not talked
about
anywhere so why isn't that talked about
anywhere if the problem well I think
it's because China's controlling Tik
Tok I don't think it sounds that crazy
either but I like I could be in my
little like weird group of I don't know
libertarian weirdos well so this is why
I want people to pay attention to base
assumptions so if um if I can get people
to to walk along the path they will at
least say okay it's possible that thing
is happening so uh question number one
would be do you believe that people will
develop opinions based on what they see
over and over and over oh my gosh I
think most people will say yes I mean I
did throughout my life like I took
certain things as the truth that I found
out later weren't the truth it was just
like how especially if everybody thinks
the same thing and you probably
experienced this with Quest and like the
demonization of fat is it's kind of hard
to get into the mindset of well everyone
around me thinks this one thing but I
know that that one thing isn't
true and
eventually eventually Society will like
shift over you know ketogenic diets
being a fad too for a very long time and
now it's like the number of research
articles coming up about ketogenic diets
and diseases
skyrocketing but everyone for 15 years
was called a quack yeah so the the
series that I think people have to walk
down if you're just looking at it from
base assumptions is anything you repeat
is going to get into people's minds if
you repeat something enough it will seem
true even if it's just because it's
familiar uh algorithms create the
ability to repeat something over and
over and over uh that this if you can
create a sense of social proof around an
idea that people are even more likely to
believe that uh and we know that
algorithms can control what side of an
issue you see they can control the
sequencing of the comments so they can
put comments you're going to agree with
the Forefront uh and do governments
manipulate their adversar population
whenever possible like if you say yes to
all those things then it's like well
it's at least possible you may not see
any proof that it's actually happening
but it's like there's a that that would
be I mean you spelled it out pretty
correctly that would be my The Logical
framework at which I got to those
conclusions and we just saw with meta
and Mark Zuckerberg coming out and being
like yeah we were pressured pretty badly
and saying yeah we did censor content
which I think maybe put yourself in his
shoes as a human being he's not like a
you know some people think he's an alien
but but he's not some like robot right
if you have the FBI coming to you being
like do
this that's a that's pressure that most
people don't withstand and especially
with the limited information he had
about like well maybe I mean the
government is saying this information is
really dangerous and the FBI is saying
don't show it to
anybody maybe even if I think it's right
maybe I could be wrong because I'm
getting pushed back from these like
authoritative government heads I think
it's good he came out and said that they
were censoring content but the fact that
meta was censoring content I
mean how can you not think that there's
some weird things going on with Tik Tok
and I don't think every country
infiltrates every other country to like
give them propaganda but we know stories
from like this CIA doing you know
different things to different countries
propaganda is definitely real we've seen
multiple examples of that you can just
take Nazi Germany as an ex like a prime
example of that or even Soviet Union so
we know propaganda happens I just think
maybe we don't necessarily think it's
happening to us
now yeah if your dad is right and the
world cannot be um metabolized via facts
it has to be taken in as story and story
is quite propaganda just a story it's
I'm going to tell you the story that I
want you to hear from the frame of
reference that I want you to see things
uh and if you can control both what
people look at and what they see then
you have a tremendous amount of control
which is utterly fascinating because
that's the moment we're living in where
people are chronically on social media
and it controls what you look at and
certainly influences what you see yeah
it's really really interesting so the
question becomes what comes of all of
this what ends up being the societal
reaction what I try to do with my social
media is follow people who are
motivational and positive like forget
the politics that like really I think
that's what the average person should do
these wars too that we're in involved in
but we shouldn't be I don't even think
human beings can take on that kind of
stress like I take my friend in for
example in Toronto she's a mom she has
two kids she's being shown dead babies I
was like what tribe would you have
possibly been in where you wouldn't have
PTSD after spending 2 hours looking at
this no human being is meant to be
exposed to the entire world of pain that
exists so follow motivational people
follow business people uh I follow
Christian
people follow people who don't drag you
into these political battles that we're
having and then try to reorganize your
own life so that every day is a slight
improvement from the last day or at
least your traj your trajectory is up
and just ignore the politics for now I
think with the Trans debate that's worth
talking about but at a level you can
tolerate and I think most of your time
should be spent on trying to fix your
own life and looking at people who are
motivational because I don't think
people can handle how dark things can
get like I think you should read those
three books that you mentioned and be
aware that that's how societ can go but
you don't need to be staring at it every
day this is like when I was a kid my dad
wouldn't let us watch the news he was
like the news was always
like serial killers loose in Toronto
bleeds it and I remember like oh grade
four serial killers loose like that's
terrifying or you know so and so's been
beaten or robbed or died or something's
on fire and that was the news right and
now unfortunately we have the news on
social media on our phone all the time
uh and I don't think people's nervous
system can handle it just like causes
anxiety and depression ruins your life
follow people like you like motivational
people maybe you might delve into these
like darker topics but my audience is
screaming right now that uh I've gone so
into world affairs that that's a big
complaint about uh my change it's
interesting uh so I try to do things by
platform so if you want the motivational
side go over Instagram or watch me
stream video games I actually do a lot
of mindset stuff in video games but um
I'm a big believer that uh it is very
important to build a mindset so that you
can point it at the biggest most
important things in your life yes uh
because of this weird thing that I see
happening in culture I cannot help but
try to look at those things head on fa
enough I think your advice is actually
really solid um I want to talk about
something that you you said earlier one
of the things that you follow is
Christian content it has been from the
outside utterly fascinating to watch the
religious Awakening of the Peter
Peterson household yeah walk me through
that because your dad started by saying
I act as if God is real and then I
recently heard you say um I'm
paraphrasing but uh I used to believe
but now I know the Bible is true yeah
okay so this this is a from outside
viewership this is a big swing walk me
through what happened it was a very big
swing um so I think first what happened
is you know my dad's always taught about
how the Bible's important from a
psychological perspective and that you
should act like Christ because that's
the best way a human can act um terrible
paraphrasing but that's what he taught
me as a kid uh and then in
2019 my mom got really sick and she got
cancer and uh story to shorten the story
quite a lot she goes I'm going to be
healed by our anniversary and I didn't
like I didn't believe at that point and
she was in the hospital for I I can't
exactly remember but it was over two and
a half months and there was a surgery
and then there was a surgical kind of
mishap and she had to be flown to the
states and then they couldn't fix it um
and then on so she was in the midst of
them trying to fix a surgical injury
that they couldn't fix and then on Mom
and Dad's anniversary it fixed
itself I still get goosebumps from that
cuz it was like how as a more rational
person and I would say the more rational
you are the harder it is to have faith
in something um I was like how can I
figure that one out because she I said
how did you know and she said God told
me and I was
like that's too coincidental for my
rational brain to be like you know what
are the odds of that like nothing like
zero the surgeons were all shocked think
about when she said God told me I
thought m's on morphine literally she
was on painkillers in the hospital I was
like as long as that's like giving her
some hope good but was like she's on
morphine that was my thought at the time
so then why not when it does heal on the
exact day that she said it would why
does your mind not immediately go to
Placebo or something like that um oh my
gosh cuz it couldn't have been Placebo
it was like to get into the details
they' nicked a lymph duct and there was
lymph leaking into her and they were
trying to fix it and it's very difficult
to find a leak and they couldn't fix it
and so she came out of surgery and
they're like we couldn't find the the
basically the nicked lymph duct and then
that was just kind of it and then it
just healed and so she goes you
know you know God saved me and then her
disposition towards everything changed
her demeanor
changed uh she spent spent the next
couple of years converting to
Catholicism but it was the patience she
had after that wasn't something I'd seen
her have throughout my entire life like
she could be very short and
irritable uh and a bit unforgiving and
she won't even be mad at me saying this
and then her demeanor changed and it was
like you have way more compassion than
you did and I don't even think I don't
think it was from the stint she spent
really suffering ing I don't think it
was that I think it was her being saved
and her conversion that gave her that
and I watched that and I was like I want
that whatever that is whatever happened
to her I want that for me and having my
dad as a dad who's very rational as well
it was just like doesn't there's no
logical explanation why and um I had
this
extremely you know extreme Heavenly
perspective and it was basically
you as a human don't have the ability to
rationalize
God that's why you need to have faith
and I was just like why did I
never understand that like everyone says
have faith and I didn't really
understand that faith is believing
without having evidence to prove it
otherwise you wouldn't need to have
faith and for some reason and I don't
know if that's going to resonate with
anyone else but that's what resonated
with me and then it was just
like floodgates open and I was like oh
that's what people mean that's what like
all these Christian weirdos that I've
been around are talking about this
overwhelming feeling of forgiveness you
get I guess once you once you get saved
and have faith and all and all these
things just lined up for me and like
I don't know 30 seconds and then after
that like my whole world viiew changed
so I was like things make more sense and
this is what my dad has been talking
about too understanding things through a
narrative so even having my dad as a dad
I'm like I'm a human being I'm trying to
understand things factually being like
what can I see that's true that you can
prove okay there's one belief and then
what else can I see that's true that you
can prove there's another belief and
then build on top of those but I had a
complete change in perspective that was
like we're living in a spiritual world
where there are things people can't see
but maybe can Inuit it uh the highest
good is truth and truth down to its core
um and then I I've realized what
Christians were saying about Sin and and
what sin looks like and I don't think I
was able to recognize sin properly
before I was Christian I do want to go
back back and start now teasing some of
these ideas apart so um I had one line
of questioning that I was going to
follow until you said truth matters and
I mean truth all the way down so your um
Dad and Sam Harris famously got bogged
down in trying to Define what is true so
what and that makes sense to me I think
it is shockingly difficult to actually
Define truth um so so why does truth
matter and if it really does matter how
do we Define it okay well I guess I'll
just go ahead and say it I I think
there's um a like a spiritual war going
around that we don't see that can kind
of rear its head in politics and in evil
in the
world and I think the only way to combat
that is by being 100% truthful and if
you're not 100% truthful then you're
contributing to that evil
in the spiritual
realm so that's going to be my answer
okay truthful versus true seems very
different so truthful to me the way that
I would Define it is I believe these
things and therefore I'm going to tell
you exactly what I believe but that
person may not have identified truth
they could be completely off the rails
well even like this this theory about
China infiltrating the US I'm not going
to say that's true I have no idea so is
it important to be truthful full or to
identify the truth it kind of pains me
to say this cuz my dad taught me this
for my entire life said like no matter
what you have to tell the truth but I
was like yeah but what
if what if your friend shows up and
she's really happy and her hat is kind
of ugly but she's really happy with the
outfit do you actually have to say do
you actually have to tell her what you
think and I think yes now and I'm not
sure if I thought yes as hard as I do
now before I don't think you can know
what is true with without having a
Heavenly perspective on say so much more
what does that mean like I I think the
so the way I was acting before I got
saved versus how I react to the world
now the way I was acting was how I
thought a good person should
act and I think I was doing an okay job
but then God was like you're not um so I
I and the problem with how I was acting
before was I couldn't identify the micro
sins I was doing so like even just kind
of a someone says something annoying and
you're like I don't have time for this
even that I was shown isn't the way that
you should act let me give you my
definition of Truth and then let me stab
at what I think you're saying your
definition of Truth is okay my
definition of truth would be an accurate
description of the physical world so
Einstein got close to truth he didn't
get all the way there because he doesn't
have a theory of everything that to me
is what is true it is the physical laws
of the Universe from which everything is
born now what I hear you saying what is
true is accuracy to spiritual alignment
with God's desire for you yes that yes
and I also I do partly agree with you
because there's like physical realities
of the world um but I do think I do
think I would put God above that okay so
there is truthfulness in terms of uh
almost a shame that we use the same word
but there is truthfulness that will keep
your soul clean aligned I'm not sure
what word will feel right there but for
for a reason I won't speculate on yet
God wants you to be that way that will
be better for you better for society if
you're always truthful the truth capital
T the capital T Truth uh that is God has
a plan for how humans ought to be and
when you're in alignment with that
you're in alignment with the truth yeah
okay cool I now that was pretty good I
now this is the first time I had to
stumble along that story I wasn't quite
prepared for it fair we got there so now
I understand what you're saying because
it drives me crazy when people have
debates and they just didn't take time
to Define base assumtions dad's debate
with yeah so when going back to the last
interview I did with your dad I can't
remember if I said this on camera or off
but I was like Jordan I think that your
I was very confused when you went from
being the internet's dad to writing a
book called we who wrestle with God but
because he is so bright and has really
been a part of my sensemaking apparatus
I was like chesterton's fence before I
say this doesn't make sense let me make
sure that I understand what he's doing
and then I can decide if this is the
next logical step once I understood what
I think he's doing I was like oh I get
why this is a continuation of all right
I help helped you get out of the M of um
feeling lost and hopeless but now that
you're not lost and hopeless you need an
aim and that aim is an aim that should
make your life better your family's life
better civilization's life better okay
cool I get why he's now going over to
religion I really believe that humans
think in stories religion as far as I
can tell is the only um meme medium by
which good ideas can spread not only
across time and in any place on Earth
but also across levels of intellect so
whether you're a literal by definition
[ __ ] or you're a Super Genius both of
those people can encounter religion and
and see something that makes their life
better and it's like oh my God like I
see the truth right and so I'm utterly
fascinated I don't I don't believe we
have yet found anything that leverages
the AR architecture of the human mind so
perfectly to get us to work together in
these large flexible groups okay so I
think religion is the only thing that's
withstood the test of time there are
some new entrance into the field with
religious like ideology but religion I
know works but then it begs the question
of am I missing a trick if I act as if
religion is true but no that it's not
which is how I feel like there's so many
great ideas if I live in a with the
great ideas but don't think that this is
the word of God yeah is my life somehow
fundamentally worse than somebody who
does all the same actions I do but they
also believe it's the literal word in
which case if somebody is trying to help
people to the max they have to get you
to truly take that leap of faith and
belief I think what my dad tells people
is if you even if you don't have faith
if you act in that way and that's why
the term cultural Christian is also
popping up here and there um then you'll
improve your life dramatically which I
agree and I think that's the best thing
people can do I think from my
conversion if you have faith then you're
an entirely different realm than that I
had a fear of death that I don't have
anymore and it wasn't something that I
was like up at night about because
everybody knows they're going to die and
everything but that's just gone and it
turns out that sucks just for Humanity
to have that so that's gone and I wasn't
even an anxious person before like I
have a number of successful companies
have a podcast I have my health issues
under control nobody in my family is
sick I'm in a great relationship like I
have it I am so grateful at how my life
has turned out after a lot of years of
horror
um but even going from that to having
faith has eliminated a lot of the
existential I guess angst that just
haunted me being a human how would you
convince somebody that God is
real I would probably tell them the
story about my mom and walk them
through you know I totally get where
people are coming from when they're like
that sounds like a nice naive fairy tale
for people who can't handle death and
don't believe in
evolution which is probably how I kind
of
characterized Christians I was like
those are people that thought Harry
Potter was evil and um um so I'd
probably say I was like that um and then
I saw what happened to my mom which was
I couldn't
rationalize and then I started mimicking
the steps of a
Christian um I didn't go to church very
often but I was watching sermons online
and I was reading the Bible and I was
praying and I was like this feels right
but I didn't like fully to my core have
faith and then and then I got to a l low
point and I think I was really
struggling with like how do I believe in
something that I can't rationalize like
how are you supposed to believe that to
your core if you can't prove it or if no
one can prove it that's that's even
harder and then it occurred to me that
like the entire everything spelled out
in the New Testament anyway is you need
Faith wouldn't be called faith if
someone could come to you and rationally
explain it now what do you think about
Rolo tomasi's read on that women find
God in their late 20s when they can no
long when they realize they can no
longer compete with women who are in
their early
20s um I think Rolo tamasi is a scumbag
that's like my that's my main take
um and I think he hates women so I think
that is evident about like throughout
what he teaches people and all his
videos so I'm not surprised he'd say
something like that I could he said it
to you in your the interview oh that
I've blocked that out of my head so
successfully I yeah yeah I no I forgot
about that um I mean I guess I don't
really care what he thinks he doesn't
seem like a happy person plus people say
anything they want about me online and I
really I really don't care how do you
deal with
that I think maybe in 2018 it bothered
me more
more but I mean you know what I do okay
so we we launched this Peterson Academy
company and there's been and for some
reason that like criticism of that hurts
me more than criticism of me maybe
because maybe because it's new and I've
gotten used to criticism of me
yeah which is silly I guess but um but
then you look at Elon telling people
he's going to launch a rocket to
Mars and the comments are just like who
why don't you just cure world hunger and
I was like who why don't you cure world
hunger I like how about that's epic
right I figure if Elon Musk is getting
criticism for his insane Ventures and
like bringing internet to everywhere
building underground tunnels trying to
make cars
electric so that we pollute less like
these huge things he's doing um the AI
stuff you know everything if he's
getting criticism then I'm definitely
going to get criticism
and so I think I just know that people
are critics and resentful people in
particular that know that there are
things in their own life that they could
be improving and aren't are like well
why that person deserve that I was like
I don't know improve your own life it's
hard try it so I guess I just don't I
guess I don't just don't care speaking
of improving your life you got divorced
and you were on camera through it all
and you were leaking a a lot of anxiety
about I don't know if I'm going to find
anybody again I'm okay being alone but
now you found somebody you're remarried
a new child what was that process like
how especially somebody who's taken a
lot of flak for being an alpha woman uh
how did that process go how does an
alpha woman find love
again as a business owner I'm guessing
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Theory I'm more of a Libertarian like
there are certain things I don't like
and certain things things I like but I
think because I'm surrounded more about
conservatives I had this idea that
because I had a baby and I was a single
mom you know it scared me I was like my
value is was like who wants this amount
of baggage and so when he asked me to
marry him I literally told him all of
that I was like okay but like you don't
realize what you're getting into here
I'm not even sure if you actually want
this like I work very closely with my
family and I don't plan on stopping I
work all the time I have a
kid
um there was more things um that I
thought were an issue and he was just
like I don't care I was like wow I know
Rolo tomasi talks about the statistics
all all the time about single moms and
how awful they are but there's also like
who left them I think I was more anti-
single mom obviously and then I became
one and maybe that was God being like
humble yourself I've had I've had other
conservative women too who have been
worried about telling people they're
divorced online because they're part of
a conservative community and they think
they're going to get completely
lambasted By Their audience for doing
something wrong and I've been telling
them first of all I don't think the
feedback is going to be as bad as you
think it is a lot of people experience
divorce and a lot of sane people
experienc divorce it's not just troubled
people who experienced divorce to the
idea of the Overton window widening I
think we're moving away from these
really sort of absurdly uh narrow
definitions of um the relationship
between the Sexes but it is very
interesting to see somebody who's a CEO
of a very fast growing company which by
the way congratulations thank you uh
very exciting
and my wife has always been the standard
Bearer for me she is a very tough woman
she's a great entrepreneur the best
business partner I've ever had she's
amazing amazing but if she didn't like
being small in my arms if she didn't
want me to lead then we'd have a problem
and so the interesting dichotomy there
is you've got this bad [ __ ] girl boss
but her vibe has always been but at the
same time I'm not competing with my
husband for that role and I'm curious if
you're in a similar relationship or if
you have a totally different Dynamic
that you think works like how does one
navigate there could be some outliers
but I do think women want to be with
someone who makes them feel safe and and
that means that they can rely on them
for to stay calm in stressful situations
and
to just deal with scary things and like
make decisions everything that comes
with making a female feel safe um allow
like criticism in conversations like the
one thing I really appreciate about my
husband is I don't have to filter myself
at all and I can be pretty
like if I'm being
extremely honest I can be extremely
blunt and I and the problem is if you're
in a relationship where you can't be
like blunt if their feelings get hurt or
something it's just stifling and so by
the time I met him I was like I actually
am fine by myself now I wasn't I was
lonely but I was like compared to being
in a bad relationship I'm doing okay
about some money like I have a baby um
or I had like a little kid at that point
and I was like I have career
opportunities I have a successful
podcast like I have opportunities like
okay you know it's not ideal it's not
how I thought I was going to grow up as
a little kid but I'm fine and it's
better than being with somebody that
can't handle me or that like you're too
much like or someone I can't communicate
with which is just horrible um so I
think I just got really lucky I'm giving
God credit for that one so if you were
going to explain to somebody in their
late teens early 20s how good a
relationship can be what to look for uh
how to find it quite frankly what advice
would you give them I would say if
you're young like that young you should
probably work on yourself for a while I
was naive for a very long time but I was
extremely naive I think until I was
23 um I think if I could have given my
self advice it would have been to work
on myself definitely sort out my health
because my health was a disaster read as
much as I can pursue opportunity and and
try to learn enough so you're a little
bit wiser get your exercise and check
like look into what your sleep schedule
looks like like get your drinking habits
under control so let's put that to the
side for a second picture the person you
want and my dad really taught me this
from a young age Imagine your ideal
person just so you know what that looks
like and then I would say try to build
yourself into the person that matches
who that person would be attracted
to that's probably what I would tell
young people and what do you think about
saving yourself for marriage is that
advantageous is that disadvantageous I'm
so curious to see how hard the pendulum
is going to swing back now I I think
it's a good idea because I
think having casual sex is incredibly
hard on women and I think the pendulum
is swinging back like when I when when I
was a teenager it was really frown upon
upon if you weren't hooking up with
people whoa frowned upon oh my gosh like
in Toronto in an art
school I think we knew the one yeah oh
yeah is that not what it was like when
you were growing up it was pretty hard
babies when you're 40 sleep around now
that's when you find like that's how you
first of all you like it none of that is
remotely true so I think s like saving
yourself is is definitely the way to go
and I think the pendulum is swinging
back towards that do you think there's
any sense of sexual compatibility is a
real thing you brought that up but how
will you know if you're sexually
compatible think if you're I think if
you're deeply if you're actually in love
with somebody even if you guys have no
idea what you're doing you'll figure it
out like we're humans it's not like oh
it's not good now it's going to be not
good forever like that is very unlikely
if you're madly in love with each other
so going back just so there's context
for this question uh you talked about
the truth is being in alignment with
what God wants for you do you think the
line for God is marriage and that's
going to be the thing that's optimal for
now I'm using my words human thriving or
or is it cuz to me there's a huge
difference between casual sex and sex
with a long-term committed partner with
whom you are both wildly in love but
you're not
married I I mean I agree there's a
difference so there's definitely I think
I think the ideal situation
is you find somebody you're madly in
love with and you get married I think
that's the ideal situation yeah I do
think that but I anybody who did
that yeah I do actually I've met people
who have done that so so I do
um and and the reason part of the reason
I think that is
because of the Bible and how it talks
about
it I would say I guess from my rational
perspective if you guys are together and
you're fully committed and you plan on
getting
married I don't know I'm having a hard
time here because from a Christian
perspective you're supposed to wait till
marriage uh from a rational
perspective I think God would forgive
you but I'm not
God so that like I don't know I I think
like try your
hardest I think the casual sex thing is
a really bad idea I think if you're
committed to one another and there's no
like wiggle room of maybe there's
someone better out there you know your
eyes aren't kind of like half looking in
One Direction then that's the ideal
place to be and I think marriage
solidifies that let me run an idea by
you tell me what you think okay there's
always somebody better
and if you are foolish enough to chase
the somebody better then you're going to
end up in a really dark place because
the reality is there's somebody better
than you and so the the way I think
people ought to think of it but I don't
come from a religious perspective Ive so
the Christian God May hate this but uh
the way that I think about it is you
want to share a life with somebody and
to share a life with somebody you need
to be committed you need to let them
know even though there will certainly
right now today there's people that are
more attractive than you and there will
be people that are more attractive than
you for sure as you get older and I
don't care and that's not why I'm with
you yeah I think that will serve people
more than um trying to shut that eye off
it's like you're always going to find
people attractive again I'm not speaking
to what the Bible says um but for me
there would be no friction in oh my
neighbor's wife is hot I'm not going to
sleep with her because there's no
Universe in which I would want to throw
away sharing my life with my wife um but
for me that was like an unlock when I
told Lisa I was like look you're always
going to find other men attractive
that's okay I'm going to find other
women attractive that's okay and as long
as we're both in this together and we
want to share life and we want to grow
together uh I'm here for it but if you
want me to lie to you and say I'll never
find anybody attractive again and I only
have eyes for you I think it deranges
personally you you know what this might
be from the conversion to and being
saved I don't have that perspective I
don't I thought I I thought I would but
I don't and I'm not lying about that
either cuz they're very attractive
people out there but I like I don't
think I have that perspective meaning
you don't find other people attractive
no I know what they like what looks good
for sure on women and men but like I
wouldn't say
attractive for me very
interesting all right I I will read that
as 100% accurate to your experience it
um you are the first person I've met
that made that claim I will say that so
it doesn't feel feel super common to me
but um what do you think it is about
being saved that has made it such that
you only find your husband attractive
and can you define attractive I have a
feeling that we're using that word to me
different things not really I mean like
cuz you said I humor looks like like
everything MH everything do you mean
drawn Future Vision drawn to yeah but I
mean attra yeah okay so let's do let's
do some definitions here I do mean drawn
to but I also mean attractive in like a
looks sense so you could be flipping
through a magazine full of sixpack ab
models and be like there's no attraction
no no no I know like I know what looks
good but there isn't an attraction so we
do have to Define attraction got it so
attraction has some sort of I'm drawn to
this and there's none of that I can
still see what looks good like I still
watch makeup videos with cute women are
like I want that on me that's with women
but very different okay but with with
men I mean I still know what an ideal
like human body like I know what that
looks like and how that looks good but I
wouldn't say there's an attraction to it
it's
interesting that word so that helps it
doesn't hurt he is not ugly I will say
that he's not ugly and nor is he
short both of those things are
true yes uh okay so um Talk to me a
little bit about
the how men and women should be aligning
because I think for a long time called
the last 10 years we've really gotten
some crazy ideas how can men and women
align ooh this is tricky so I think and
you and Lisa seem to have it I think if
you're with someone who isn't going to
compete with you like coming from a
female perspective it's hard to be with
someone if they're trying to one up you
all the time cuz you don't want to be in
competition with the man you kind of
want to lead you and feel safe with like
if it turns into a competition it's like
this isn't even a competition I want to
win and why are you competing with me
kind of like you don't want that so my
perspective is coming from someone who's
pretty dominant my dad probably didn't
help because he probably said like who's
going to put up with you and I kind of
felt the same way with like who's going
to put up with me if I like want to work
for 12 hours cuz I want to finish a
project or if I'm like this isn't good
enough think as a dominant woman you
need
to you know work on yourself so that you
can attract someone who is as dominant
or more dominant than than you that's at
least what I needed um so I I think I
think kind of what we were taught and
what I was taught growing up luckily I
had my dad as a dad was that you can
kind of be your own man for lack of a
better definition as a woman like you
can reach the highest peaks in your
career which I I agree with you can you
can be a mom you can have both which I
am iffy about um um and you know you
don't need you don't need a man to help
you that's kind of what was surrounding
me um but I found that I'm much
happier when I have someone I can go to
and and be like this is hard or like I'm
I know I'm worried about this stupid
thing that I shouldn't be worried about
but like
can you help fix it because it's
bothering me even though it's not
logical um and I I think every woman
needs like a man who can help her
through these problems what does a a man
need from a woman so this is what I've
heard not a man so I'm not sure uh I
think it's respect and recognition I
would say um you can tell me if I'm
wrong but I think it's recognition for
like look at all the little things I do
for
you because I love you you but like they
they want the recognition for those
little things that they do out of love
but I don't know how does that sound
well from where I'm sitting so I would
use the word appreciation I think that's
huge men want to be appreciated but
gratefulness that hits the note for me
as well um the one thing you might lump
this into respect but I've always said
if you really want to um make a man
happy win him over whatever the right
phrase is make him feel powerful and
appreciated if you make him feel
powerful and appreciated you're going to
be he'll be good but if he feels
unappreciated or you can't sincerely
look at him like he's powerful like you
don't sincerely believe it you're going
to have problems for sure yeah 100% And
I I think too for for women if they're
in a relationship where they actually
don't feel that way like they don't feel
respect or they don't feel power from
the person they're
with that's tough to play out long term
you might need to be with somebody that
you do respect and and I like you do
have to make sure the problem isn't you
and that you're just not going to
respect anybody so and that does happen
to some women and it just happens in
general but um if that's not the problem
if it's not you then you should probably
look for somebody that you do
admire just seems like Baseline you
should admire the person you're with
that might come from both angles I don't
know but I
definitely for women to men
yeah I think admiration is almost
certainly something you want going both
ways I think it will clock from
different things the things that I
admire in my wife are pro some of the
things are going to overlap that's for
sure but there's going to be a
difference uh most definitely I I think
the things that my husband admires in me
aren't the things that I want to be
admired for we have that discussion
quite and I might be I well I might be a
little bit like work in and and business
inclined so I'll get into work mode and
he's like you're in work mode I'm like
yeah my work brain's on I don't have
like another brain this is my work brain
just like I'm focused um and I think he
admires the like more feminine side when
I want to be like look at look at the
creation I made so there's a little bit
of a discrepancy there but what do you
think about the Trad wife
movement I think that there was going to
be inevitable push back to the
for lack of a better description Boss
[ __ ] movement um so I I like I think
I'm torn I think it's all of I think it
pretty it's pretty much a facade there
was this like brief period in the 50s
where women stayed home and like had
money and had kids and wore makeup and
fancy clothes and got their hair done
and life was good and it lasted like
seven years and then it's never repeated
itself again in history so being like
this is how it used to be it just isn't
even true in any any any way you
describe truth but I understand the push
back I think it's kind of cute I mean I
like it better than other other
movements like any like man hating or
woman hating movements I think the
tradwife movement is cuter uh as long as
they're like you don't have to you also
don't have to be a like stay-at-home
wife to be the ideal female partner now
for some couples that might work
perfectly it's like it's certainly
doesn't work for me but I've seen some
people it does work for so maybe it
depends who you are have you ever seen
an episode of
alone I watched a whole season of alone
dude that show's dope have you seen the
couples one that sounds horrifying no I
haven't it's pretty interesting that
show to me reveals the reality of our
ancestors where every like every
movement you make you have to decide in
doing this is it likely to yield more
calories than it costs me to go do the
thing because in in a world where you
have a grocery store you don't even have
to think about it but all the sudden
there's a real Clarity between the
husband and wife because it's like um
the guy is almost certainly going to be
physically stronger and he's going to go
out and do the sort of grunt labor
carrying the big logs dragging them
around he'll do the more dangerous stuff
the fishing whatever but you learn real
fast my wife is going to be gifted in
other things and I want to make sure
that she's positioned to do the things
that she's very gifted at and I'm not
going to complain that she's better than
me at whatever whatever because we're
just trying to stay alive and so I have
a feeling all throughout history this
was a lot easier because you needed your
woman to be badass at something no woman
wanted a man that was like a child and
no man wanted a woman that was like a
child like you want people that can
really carry their own and that's been
the secret weapon that leis and I have
is I learned very early on before we got
married that at first I thought she
would only be sexually attracted to me
if I was better than her at everything
and then I realized wait who on Earth
would want to be in a relationship where
they're worse at everything like that
would be a nightmare you'd never get a
chance to flex you'd never get a chance
to be celebrated it would be very
patronizing and so we mapped out here
are the things that you were obviously
better than me at and here are the
things that I'm obviously better than
you at and even leadership we're going
to hand off so when you know more about
an area than I do then I'm going to
follow and why would I be weird about
that and vice versa and that for us was
like mapping out saying here are the
things where you have more credibility
or you're more effective or whatever and
then we ride in those lanes and that
goes back to the appreciation it's like
the fact that let's say our food comes
and it's messed up and one of us is
going to get a good meal and one of us
is going to get a bad meal a hundred out
of a hundred times I'm going to tell my
wife you take the good thing and I will
take the bad thing which of course she
tries to divvy up and all that stuff but
like that line is just hard and fast
like in Titanic if only one of us can
fit on the door which I agree they both
would have fit but if only one of us
will fit on the door of course it's
going to be my wife on and on and on and
on and on so uh knowing what each other
are good at and then knowing what role
you're going to play stating it agreeing
to it so that everybody understands like
oh we do each have roles now they don't
have to be hyper traditional or anything
like that but you better have
complimentary roles they be things each
of you are being celebrated for
otherwise it's going to be nightmarish
yeah that's great that's perfect I think
I mean I've I've done the same thing so
Jordan's my husband I've done the same
thing with him which is just like okay
you are better at certain things than me
which is great because then we can work
together and it's almost like I'm better
at them right because if you're one team
then it's like and you join with the
right person then suddenly especially if
you don't align perfectly in what each
other are good at then you have way more
skills so it's like okay problem this
problem falls into this basket you
handle it this problem falls into this
basket I'll handle it so like a whole
bunch of them we work on together but I
I think that's spoton is it just makes
you into a more useful person if you can
work as like this power couple totally
agree what are your thoughts on birth
control I am not a fan of birth control
um I had Sarah Hill on my podcast she
was really good she's a researcher about
the detrimental effects of birth control
um so a lot of it is from what I've read
and what I've learned on that podcast
but I think almost everybody who takes
it gets depressed I think most people
are prescribed around the age of 14 for
like heavy periods or
acne and they're not even developed
enough to recognize that the pill is
causing depression because they haven't
even lived enough life to be like this
is what it feels like to be a healthy
teenager they're just as soon as they're
a teenager it's like oh I'm depressed
but that's because I'm hormonal when
really it's this little innocuous pill
that isn't supposed to be bad for you
that you're taking one of the shocking
things I I Learned was when women go
through menopause they're given
bioidentical hormones to help symptoms
through menopause those are bioidentical
which means your body you inject them or
you swallow them and your body thinks
they're the hormone you're being given
that's already in your body in birth
control it's called like progesterone or
something like that it's actually not
bioidentical so it ends up working on
test testosterone and working on other
neurotransmitters other parts of your
body that it wasn't supposed to work on
so even the way it's marketed isn't
quite true so I think the side effects
are extremely detrimental there's
evidence that it
shows mate attraction differences so if
that's crazy it's crazy so if you're a
woman you end up being more attracted to
more feminine men so like what do you
think that does to a society if I don't
know what it is 60 or 70% it's a large
percentage I don't know the numbers of
women who are going to be mating with
other people or being attracted to more
feminine men unnaturally it'd be a
disaster for
relationships and I mean I just disaster
societally and I think the main problem
just in in with couples is it I think it
makes most women really unhappy and
miserable and so they're depressed and
whoever they're with is like I'm with
the psych so
and what do you think about women though
that would protest pretty hard to hear
any sort of societal pressure not to use
birth control because of the level of
control that it's given them oh yeah
well I mean I totally get that I totally
get that I think what would the logical
thing would be to just have doctors
explain the side effects like when
you're prescribed it when I was
prescribed it at 14 my mom was like it
made me depressed and I was like I'm
already depressed Mom I don't care uh
which was dumb but like that was my
actual response uh I would say you
should be run through just like any
medication especially like psychiatric
medications the serious medications
birth control actually explain hey
there's data indicating that if you're
looking for a mate uh you may choose
someone that you wouldn't necessarily be
as attracted to and even in Sarah Hill
it doesn't mean that relationship is
doomed because maybe you are still
attracted to that person it's just the
overarching theme is women will pick
slightly more feminine men um you should
just be shown all this data that shows
you know maybe it's harder to lose
weight maybe it's easier to gain weight
um a huge percentage of people using it
experience really severe depression you
know it can take a while for your
hormones to recover like you should just
be told the truth before you take a
medication we shouldn't just take it
away just like with Foods like it'd be
nice to build this little country and
ban some of these processed foods maybe
some of the chemicals should be banned
I'm still on that board but like let
people have it just tell them if you
overeat these things this is what it
leads to I I don't think removing access
to things is the right answer I think
just people having more information is
the right
answer so going back to your libertarian
bent you just said maybe something
should be banned I know not too long ago
though I am forgetting exactly who this
was aimed at um something popped off on
social media and people construed what
you said that was honestly that was Mo
like mostly my fault you know I I guess
I felt that it was tricky because I
know with the Holocaust there was an
entire Society of people that ended up
murdering a bunch of people and Jewish
people and it was because the propaganda
was so effective and for whatever reason
the ideas were so attractive to the
average resentful person or maybe just
the average regular person that it ended
up massacring a bunch of Jewish people
what I should have said is can we not
push these can we not push these like
Nazi ideas like push them I didn't mean
censor them um let me step back and
think through a problem that I've not
tried to think through
yet so freedom of speech does not mean
freedom of reach I get that especially
if you are the platform I think you
should um be optimizing for whatever
your goals are for the company now I
think algorithms should be
transparent so people should understand
what they or they because it'll still be
so complicated most people won't
understand but it should be available
for people that want to go through it
and understand it like the one on X's so
anybody that's like I think this is
being manipulated can actually go and
check the Live code replicate the
results for themselves and see Yep this
this this is exactly what they said it
was oh cool that makes sense to me so
getting people to do that I don't think
the government should be putting their
finger on the scales um now I think the
platform should be able to optimize for
whatever it is that they're trying to
optimize for buyer beware in that most
of those algorithms are going to be
optimized for your engagement so that
means if outraging you is engaging then
outrage you they will and so this is
where I think people need to take
personal responsibility and say if it's
not making your life better or it's not
making your kids life better you have to
stop now I have pushed back on anybody
that's like well there are going to be
people that won't be able to navigate
that well I get it but I think the nanny
state is a thousand times more deadly
than people making poor life choices
that is I'm way more afraid of
well-meaning people trying to um lie
trick uh regulate into
Oblivion they behaviors now I am not a
Libertarian so I'm all for government I
would just like the government to be uh
held accountable to their own stated
kpis that's my official position which
does not have any home uh but that's
what I want I want politicians to say
we're going to run this program we're
expecting this result and we're going to
audit it in a year or two years whatever
reasonable amount of time if it's not
yielding those results then we can all
look at that and say this was a failed
experiment and we need to try something
different uh I don't think I think the
reality of politics is manipulation so I
don't think that's ever going to happen
but that's what I would like to see yeah
I wouldn't be a Libertarian if that
existed that
sounds fine I don't think the idea of
government is bad I just think it
doesn't seem to operate very well at all
yeah it's one of those uh what do they
say capitalism is uh a terrible system
but it's the best of all the other worst
systems something like that something
like that you get the idea yeah that is
um
that's where I come down I think freedom
of speech is critically important I'm
not a free speech absolutist I'm
perfectly fine with the US government's
take on that you can't directly Insight
violence um but I am old school in the
uh ACLU God this is back in like the
1960s where they actually went to bat
for the Nazis Believe it or enough that
wanted to March through a small town in
Wisconsin something like that some small
Midwestern town where there was a bunch
of Holocaust survivors and the Nazis
wanted to provoke them and go march to
their streets I believe it was the ACLU
that said they should have the right to
do that and so now the question
becomes if we don't want a nanny State
then you're relying on people to stand
up and say I have a better idea and so
here's all the hate like you know
flashback either late 20s or early 30s
when Hitler starts rising to power and
you have to have somebody with better
ideas and so that's the terrifying part
is
sometimes things just go the [ __ ] off
the rails so like my initial reaction to
seeing all those was like this is crazy
and it's happening now and they were
popular posts so it was like people are
liking these and not all of these are
Anonymous like I was shocked because
some of the popular posts were by
doctors and I was like I never thought I
would be in a world where you could say
something that targeted Jewish people
like that and be a professional um it's
I don't have a problem with
targeting individuals I do have a
problem with targeting races or
or I would say like ethnic groups of
people like that given that we know
people do have a propensity towards
violence for those groups of people I
don't remember what word I Ed I might
have used sensor I said something in a
fever state that was that wasn't stupid
but um the problem is if you do censor
those is it doesn't really matter
because people are still talking about
them so you can't suppress that
out so I guess it's better to see that
they're being talked about and not be
naive about it I would like people to
know that what they're shown on the
internet could be propaganda and just be
aware of that like we're not in a time
that doesn't have propaganda so don't
just believe everything you see on the
internet like be hypers skeptical try to
figure out what's true for yourself talk
to different groups of people so you get
different perspectives and if a platform
suddenly shuts off one area the people
are talking about so like maybe covid
for example with meta or if a platform
suddenly shows you only content about
one event then maybe that's actually
propaganda if suddenly mainstream media
says the same thing on every newspaper
like be a little bit skeptical about
those things I think that's the best
thing we can do is just be skeptical
and and careful censorship not not only
does it not work but it can lead to
terrible authoritarian States and you
can like we we don't want to risk that
again after what we've seen can already
happen what are you doing with your kids
in social media or what will you do like
you don't want to have that Outcast kid
that doesn't know how to use a computer
you know especially with how fast tech
is expanding so I do want to teach her
how to type and
maybe code like things that I think
would be very valuable and teach her
about Ai and use that kind of as
education um for social
media I don't know what I'm going to do
I'll probably wait until
she's 14 or 16 something like that have
you read Jonathan Heights work I haven't
read it I'm really familiar with that
it's scary does he suggest 18 what does
he suggest yes don't remember the age
but he certainly doesn't want to see
phones in school so at least at school
that takes you to 18 yeah my my
daughter's school I think his number is
like absolutely not until 16 I think but
don't quote me on that well
it's I like luckily enough I found a
school where I'm at where that like my
oldest is going to that's very like '90s
education so they're learning all the
games I learned in the 9s
and it's like
there's no ideology really it's just
like basic education now they do learn
how to type and they learn how to use
iPads but there aren't phones I think a
lot of the parents putting their kids in
that school uh aren't going to allow
phones so I don't think it's going to
have the maybe pressure that's in public
schools as a teenager to own a phone
because I think a lot of parents are
like no that's there's a better way so I
think I maybe found this little EOS
where we wouldn't have to succumb to
peer pressure um otherwise if I wasn't
in that I would probably say you can
have half an hour just so they're not an
outcast at school a half hour on social
media and then you know communicate with
the kid mom sitting next to her or her
scrolled away in a room by herself
weeping over the endless insults that we
will all get her old our way uh maybe
beside her at the beginning and then I
would probably just monitor how she's
doing and I can remember being on so MSN
Messenger when I was in grade four or
grade five being like MSN Messenger was
the social media platform and it like it
went even Haywire as a kid where was
like that was not appropriate at all um
but I think if you're paying enough
attention to your kid you can understand
when they're experiencing anxiety so
it's like are they a happy kid or are
they suddenly not a happy kid and if
they're not a happy kid like is it
something that happened at school I
don't know what teenager could have
negative comments about them and
withstand it and not have it just repeat
in their head all the time so
maybe try to build some resilience
around it too and teacher like there are
going to be negative people and people
that don't like
you and like that's okay people do have
to learn that it's okay if people don't
like you like don't be a dick no doubt
but it it social media and kids really
scares me as somebody who when I was in
high school if you wanted to tell the
whole school something you had to paint
it on the bridge yeah and that was bad
enough like when it was your name up on
the bridge was like ouch uh but you
could be blissfully unaware if people
had beef with you as I was um but man if
they can reach into your bedroom through
your phone God like oh and putting V
videos and things yeah that's a no oh
that but that would be that would be a
no I would say no to that like anything
that was going to be posted I'd be like
I need to sign off on that oh good luck
would you let your kid have an AI friend
I think it would depend if like my
daughter's best friend is an AI person
then we've got a problem like that like
that's not healthy no but I think I'm
not going to be not exposing her to uh
the evolution of like technology so I
like I think VR is going to be huge
in I don't know how long how long do you
think like three to five years V I
wouldn't get too hung up on VR but VR is
probably five to seven uh because you
need the it's really ARS what you want
that's what Zuckerberg is working like a
fiend on to get it into a form factor
where it's just like these overlays of
the world yeah that okay okay that start
very interesting so call S years by the
time she's 15 100% yeah and I think
being like no we'll keep her safe from
all this we'll just mean that they're
Left Behind like I think you're gonna I
think it's going to be hard for us to
keep keep up you see well yeah right
things are getting crazy out there AI so
I just heard Elon Musk say AI is
advancing faster than any technology
he's ever seen in his life now this is a
guy that's been at the Nexus of
technology for a very long time and he
said it's not by a little it's orders of
magnitude faster than anything else
people do not understand they are going
to be blindsided by by AI in ways that
they cannot even begin to understand yet
it is so fast and there's actually this
is for sale right now there's a
medallion called friend and it's an AI
That's always with you always watching
always listening
and it will um make suggestions it will
comment on your clothes if you wanted to
I mean it's it's going to get bananas
and that's that's what it is today
Michaela I want you to imagine five
years it's only been out like chat GPT
was what two years ago less 18 months 19
months ago so this is going to be
bananas by the time your daughter is a
teenager forget about your son it's
going to be nuts with your son you're
going to be like you cannot have sex
with a sex robot anymore more like it's
going to be that that crazy yeah that
that one I worry about that sex robots
scare me I won't yeah that's going to
take a lot of people out I think yeah
yeah no no I'm pretty like we're we're
pretty on top of AI Tech because we've
got AI built into a number of PA
features that mostly haven't been
released so I'm not going to mention you
talk about don't tease and then not say
anything yeah I can't yet Bo we got hu
we have huge ideas um
like a bunch of it involves testing some
of it involves translations and then
there's there's something else that I'm
not allowed to talk about so we're not
going to talk about camera we'll trade
AI ideas because we we also have many
tell me about entrepreneurship so you
have launched a university via an app if
I'm not mistaken almost uh you have at
least at lashek you had over 10,000
students 30 good Lord yeah you guys are
growing fast yeah yeah say more you're
the CEO how did you do this
so about three years ago um I was having
by the way congratulations 30,000 is
Gangster it has been there has not been
a lot of sleep in a very long time fair
enough but you got the results for it
yeah like and thank you to everybody who
signed up it's been a massive success we
have a whole bunch of features and
development that we're going to roll out
in the next couple of months uh and we
have a mobile app in the next
month hopefully should be about a month
uh but we have like exams coming out
quizzes essays note taking study groups
how do you grade the essays the essays
are graded by AI I was going to say and
it's not out yet we're rolling it out
yeah there's a lot of evidence that llms
can grade as effectively as a human
which isn't surprising given minus bias
given that it depends on the human
grading you right so a lot of this a lot
of this has been possible I mean Tes
take something like easy in our courses
uh we wanted to have animation so that
people with for lack of a better
description people with ADD could sit
through an eight hour lecture basically
so I was like and I like I don't even
watch video content very often so I was
like I need to be stimulated watching
these courses so now we have editors
generating images with AI and then
editing them and putting them in but a
lot of the building we've been able to
do has been sped up by a factor of like
it's been made possible because of how
AI is progressing we're going to be able
to translate our
courses in the next I don't know 6
months I would say and just have the
lecturers speaking in their own voice in
other languages Yeah It's Tricky most of
the companies it looks a little weird
around the teeth I don't know if you've
seen I love that you can be so nitpicky
that you're like I don't like the way
when they're speaking in Chinese I don't
like the way their lips look around
their teeth it's like when that's our
problem it's unbelievable yeah it's
unbelievable no that's I'm so close to
this problem and find it utterly
fascinating it's so fun and then it's
like oh this is a problem now let's just
give it three months yep they'll fix
that for sure yeah for sure it's really
cool what are your secrets to leadership
I would say I'm I'm willing to like from
managing my dad and building my own
brand and doing a lot of podcast related
things which teaches you a lot about
production um I was to do the grunt work
so in Peterson Academy like I'm aware of
everything from like how the courses are
built customer service design of the
platform which took a number of years
like everything and I like nothing's
beneath me I'm pretty picky about who I
work with so if there's someone that
you're having conversations with or
about more than like five times is like
this happened and then this happened and
then this happened and then maybe they
disappeared this day or maybe they're
bringing down this other team member
then they just have to leave so you
can't have an issue with replacing
people if you're trying to grow a giant
which is what we're trying to do and so
I have no guilt with it's like it's not
a good fit it's not a good fit for you
like you don't want to be the person
that people are frustrated with all the
time or if you're in a job you don't
like like go do something else but you
can't be here so I have no problem with
being like that person needs needs to be
replaced or that person needs to be
replaced um and I think that's from a
lot of really difficult experiences
trying to grow kind of my dad's brand
and working with some bad eggs that
really ended up causing me years of like
legal problems I like I I think I have
enough experience now that I can say
that person is going to be an issue we
should stop this give them a good
Severance tell them to leave politely
and then we won't have to deal with that
so that's been really helpful and
then I don't know i' like uh had I ideas
for I think I was so frustrated with my
experience in University like I went to
two different universities I got two
half degrees I never finished a full
degree I have a half a degree in
Classics and psychology and half degree
in biomedical science and
I didn't have any professors I liked
throughout both University experiences
it was full of ideology I was learning
Homer through a feminist lens in 2012
and I was like that's not why I took
Homer like that's not what Homer was
thinking um and was really disappointing
because my dad had been like go to you
like the greatest thing you can do as a
kid is like go to university get a PhD
like you need a PhD to be taken
seriously as a person Michaela uh and
you also have to have kids young that
was a tricky that was tricky to navigate
but um I I've always had this like
beautiful idea of what university is for
people and my experience was so bad and
I'm so annoyed about what they're
teaching people in University the amount
of debt students are ending up with so
they can end up in in jobs that they
don't even like you can't even go to
university and learn what you need to
know in today's society it's so
tech-based not that PA is doing that yet
we're mostly focusing on humanities and
we have like intro level courses in in
sciences and we're going to do marketing
and things like that but it's mostly
liberal arts great books courses um but
it was just it was just frustrating and
it's like there's this niche for people
who go to YouTube to learn and watch
podcasts to learn and there's this Niche
to build a community around people who
want to
learn to improve their level of
sophistication to be taken more
seriously in conversation because that
can improve your life tremendously um
who want to learn about all these
classic books and get a classical
education and meet each other
and uh and then I guess I spent enough
time being on Instagram trying to grow
my dad's channels and I mean he did the
growth himself I was I posted I'm not
taking credit for the growth taking some
credit for the posting but I think I
spent enough time on different platforms
being like I think I can see it in my
head like what it should look like and
like my husband's Been instrumental in
it we have a great team so it's just
been it's been so fun to build after
spending my whole life dealing with like
chronic health
problems it's just it's way better not
dealing with those things yeah yeah I I
would imagine so yeah speaking of your
dad in social media talk to me about the
way he engages on X formerly known as
Twitter what do you think about it do
you sometimes want to knock the phone
out of his hand are you like no go
crazy uh okay so it's actually switched
so for about four years I was like you
got to get off X it's bad for you it's
toxic all you see your negative comments
you get riled up I mean I went on like X
couple months ago and saw a bunch of
posts and was like ra and I was like oh
no and I was like well I had the flu but
no one knows you have the flu so it
doesn't matter and it was like you
can't feed the algorithm then get angry
on what like about and feed off of what
it just so I tried to get him off of it
my brother tried to get him off of it my
mom tried to get him off of it we're all
like this bad
um but now I don't know he seems to be
upset about things that are relevant in
like two years so when he freaks out
about something like Dad you're maybe
overreacting a tad and then sometimes
it's 6 months later and sometimes it's 2
years later I'm like you know
what maybe you were right so ah he can
just do whatever he wants he's made it
this
far it's interesting he did a podcast
about um his friends trying to intervene
trying to convince him that this was a
mistake and I remember listening to it
going Jordan please take their advice
and and not to get off of Twitter
because I really do think you're right I
think he gets mad about a lot of the
right things and I think history will
vindicate him um but the way he tweets
like the the words that he uses and I've
heard him justify it I get it and look I
I am your dad is a very important part
of my sensemaking apparatus so this is
somebody who's on his side being like
bro you're creating some of your own
problems here you're talking about the
right things but man with slightly
different words uh you would have a much
easier time you preaching to the choir
here yeah um but I also like who knows
he's a very smart man true maybe there's
something that the majority of people
aren't seeing so like I don't know I
don't know it's a little I like I
basically told him
it it's such
a I'm not nearly as verbally fluent as
my dad but it's such a downer being on
there like do something else like go
like now that now that PA is out maybe
he'll go on that social media and just
be on that uh because it's a lot more
positive so I was like that's what you
can do with your time instead of being
on X and freaking out about things if
people want to follow you on social
where should they go I'm Michaela
Peterson on Instagram I have a podcast
that I'm starting again in September uh
at the end of September which is just
Michaela Peterson or Michaela Fuller on
YouTube um both of those
work yeah I think my name is Michaela
Fuller but my channel is Michaela I snag
the
Michaela smart and then I guess I have a
website Michaela peterson.com which
isn't that useful I have Diet stuff at
lion diet.com if people are interested
in that and then the Peterson
Academy platform social media platform
and courses are at Peterson
academy.com I love it Michaela thank you
very much for coming today and everybody
at home if you haven't already be sure
to subscribe and until next time my
friends be legendary take care peace if
you like this conversation check out
this episode to learn more when you have
power obviously you're looking to
solidify your power one of the things
that I I always say is you know
capitalists make the best socialists for
example right one you've climbed the
ladder and like you've via capitalism
like say you're Jeff Bezos I'm just
using him as an example not point