Kind: captions
Language: en
do you think men are being taught to be
weak right now yes definitely what oh no
it's worse than being
taught they're being enticed toward that
in every way tell me more and punished
for not doing it well they're enticed
towards it by well well the insistence
for example that there are modes
of less worthy being than the masculine
let's say because masculinity itself is
toxic to its core a manifestation of
patriarchal oppression that male
ambition is nothing but a manifestation
of the force of tyrannical power that
not only oppresses the oppressed but the
world Jesus brutal so there's that so
that and then any deviation from any
deviation in that
direction the desire of a four-year-old
boy to play with guns for example well
we have to rub rub that out it's like oh
well do you you're going to rub out your
son's ability to point and shoot are you
that's that's what he'll do is his whole
life going to go to war with that in
your feminine virtue toxic masculinity
it's like great Harpy Warfare it's awful
it's awful you know but it's it's part
of this belief and that's derived from
this Unholy Nexus of agreement between
the postmodernists and the metam
marxists that the only story is one of
power and Men wield the power and
therefore all masculine virtue is
identical to the striving for power and
that's immoral in its Essence it's
basically the most
pathological brandishes of that Doctrine
presume that male virtue is
indistinguishable from malevolence and
so the best you can do if you're a man
is to castrate yourself and oh god well
what that's what's happening in the
culture it's act literally happening
it's not even it's not even
symbolic that's that's the offering
that's the ultimate offering to the to
the great mother that's a great way
Freud knew this Yung knew this this is
well mapped out this is well mapped out
in the psychological and and symbolic
spheres you've asked a lot of people I
don't know if you've ever gotten a
satisfying answer I haven't heard it yet
but what happens when the left goes too
far
or yeah where does the left go too far
yeah yeah well it's Equity clearly I POS
that to it was either Brett Weinstein or
his wife Heather Hine and cuz I said
look what I see in the world right now
is what it looks like when women become
pathological that the things that are
good nurturing wanting to care for
people when that goes too far and I
devouring mother would be your phrase
but it's a perfect phrase um yeah that's
the sin of Eve that's the Eternal sin of
Eve to to even clasp the serpent to her
breast my compassion is so overpowering
there's nothing it can't incorporate
even the fruit of the of evil
itself that's the fall of Man yeah
that's being playing out like in Spades
rapidly
miraculously yeah it's very very bad
very very
dark so I know that if we don't find a
way to um make men I would even say
strong I think strong is a part of it
but invite them invite them to be strong
invite them to become what healthy
masculinity looks like now the question
becomes to from where I'm standing I
will give you the image that I use a lot
I use this in business all the time uh
when things are getting really hard I
imagine myself in a loin CA
covered in the blood of my enemies with
a big [ __ ] sword in my hand yeah and
that imagery helps me stay focused be
strong be hard when I need to be hard
not that I'm you know imagining killing
indiscriminately but that I need to be
able to step into aggression and
aggression is the right word and when I
um that's why Andrew Tate is so so
attractive to young men dude so much
he's utterly fascinating to me 90% of
what he says scares me to death because
it actually is toxic masculinity but 10%
is so good that I'm like you cannot
dismiss this kid people are complicated
a but the thing is is that the the
more okay so so the perversion of
warrior in some ways is psychopath and
you know that because you watch like
mafia movies so we all know this okay
but but there's a dreadful attraction in
untrammeled aggression for men who are
so
crushed that they're castrated that's a
good way of thinking about it so so the
attraction that the that the Andrew Tate
Persona let's say has on those young men
there's actually a lot of that that's
positive now that doesn't mean that
that's the right target
but
it there are creative ways of being
wrong that are helpful right right now I
you know you see better examples of that
precisely that in people like Joo
willink and David goggin and Joe Rogan
like these are tough guys you know but
they're not they don't have the sex
appeal though that's one thing I'll give
Andrew Tate like yeah but that's partly
because they don't want it yeah yeah but
it isn't that they couldn't have it like
it's that they've they've decided that
everything in its proper place Rogan has
a family you know that's that's where
he's put it and and hey man good work
work good work to him you know and that
sex appeal that Andrew Tate has that's
the sex appeal of the short-term Mater
that's the psychopathic sex appeal
that's the dark tetr sex appeal it's
shallow it's shallow and it will get him
in trouble I mean it's already got him
in trouble and so that's not going to
unless he you know wises up precisely
that it'll get him in trouble you know
and I'm I'm not trying to take him apart
I mean I think what he did with his with
his capitalization on female sex uality
is absolutely
unforgivable but well I that's enough of
that I mean that was that was beyond the
pale in my estimation there was no
there's no excuse for that whatsoever
now you know if you're a basement
dwelling in cell the mere fact that you
could imagine ever doing that sort of
like you imagining yourself you know in
a loin cloth covered with blood the mere
idea that a man which is what you are
could even imagine manage doing that
having a herum you know of women who are
offering sexual favors at at your beck
and call that's a much higher calling
than castrated over obese resentful
loser who can't leave the basement right
because that's an even low I suppose you
know when you're in the lowest rung of
Hell the rung right above looks like
heaven and and it it's up it's
up that aggression not aggression is
very very necessary you know it's it's
very necessary and sports are a great
way of of of putting that in its proper
place especially team sports because you
you can take that competitive Instinct
and that instinct to
win that instinct to be competent more
deeply and you can you can put it in its
proper place and it is an immense source
of
implacability immense now in a certainly
something I draw on when I lecture for
example like it's a source of energy is
just sitting right
there interesting why is that so
effective anger aggression is a a very
primordial Instinct very and and it it
activates both the positive emotion
systems which are forward moving and the
negative emotion systems that awaken you
it's high stress like there's nothing
more stressful than being angry it's
very Str psychophysiologically demanding
it's very psychophysiologically
stressful but also as a as a
alerting as a form of alerting arousal
in some ways it's unparalleled and and
it's great to have it at hand you you
don't want to rep see the Freudian model
with regard to aggression was repression
like we have this terrible ID that's
trying to make itself clamber upward you
know all red and tooth and Claw there's
some truth in that but his model of how
that was regulated by
socialization it was insufficient it's
not depression it's not inhibition now
he kind of knew that because he talked
about sublimation P Jean P had a much
better model much more much wiser and PJ
observed actual children a competitive
child who's socialized integrates the
capacity for aggression into the game
and then he becomes the player every kid
wants on his team because he still wants
to win so he's he's got that forward
driving intensity and skill but but he
does that in a manner that brings
everyone along with them right so then
it's not aggression isn't inhibited it's
integrated and and the more aggression
you can integrate well the more
compelling you are 100% like that's
that's the that's what that's what women
are after that's because the fundamental
I think the fundamental female hero
story is essentially Beauty and the
Beast and a woman is after a a civilized
Beast like literally that's that all
female pornography has that structure
civilized Beast you know and it can tilt
a little hard in the Beast Direction
when it gets a little M masochistic and
it you know can turn a little hard in
the in the Civilized Direction when it's
kind of a like when it's a romance that
tilts more in the direction of
friendship Woody Ellen would probably be
a good example of that as a character in
his own movies but you know there's a
you can imagine that there's a range in
there where the solution can be offered
in a variety of different forms yeah I
think you were the the one that pointed
me to a book that was utterly
transformational a billion Wicked
thoughts yeah yeah right what I find
really interesting is it isn't just a
civilized Beast it is a beast I civilize
with my magic hooa which is what they
say in the book right but that that I
find very interesting and has somehow
become wom probably did the same thing
to men that humans did to wolves that's
[ __ ] Interesting
Man uh tell me more about that that is
really well you know you want a wolf
like that's trying to eat you or do you
want a wolf on your side well that's the
situation women are in I mean you've
seen the cartoon representations do Tex
Aver's cartoons from the 1940s I think
they were the 40s with the wolf who's
like completely
sexually what obsessed with Tex fing out
of his eyes and and he's always after
the singer who sings Old Wolfie you know
it's perfect it's perfect yeah women
definitely tame men obviously yes
clearly they probably tamed them by
offering them sex and fruit you know so
they gatherers women are gatherers
they're not Hunters really makes me sad
that we can't that the uh public
discussion around this people gets so
weird about so fast you actually did a
really amazing interview I think her
name was Dr Sarah Hill yeah yeah yeah
yeah Sarah was good I found that utterly
fascinating talking about just what men
do to get women's attention the demands
women make yeah literally that all and
anything is the answer to that 100% My
Success is literally tied to my desire
to impress my now wife then uh fiance
when I really turned it on I was like
whoa I've got to be the corelation
between male trappings of socioeconomic
success and male reproductive success is
like it's like s for women it's negative
it's zero it's lower than zero like men
don't care at all about
the wom men aren't looking for in women
for what women look for in men correct
so and not a bit even not a bit even and
and that plays out also in the structure
of female motivation you know men are
very competitive they'll and and in unid
dimensional in some ways oneeyed you
might say right and there's an immense
symbolic level of web of associations
around that idea the oneeyed giant well
the penis is a oneeyed giant like
obviously right and it's it's a
seeking it's a it's part of a seeking
system seeking women and it'll do that
unidimensionally right and so and men
are like that Freud knew this the men
are like this from the cellular level up
and so they'll specialize they'll hyp
specialize
obsessively in a manner women are just
not interested in they can but they're
not interested in it and partly they're
not interested in it because that isn't
what doesn't attract men that that
capability you know the the men I worked
with in big law firms for example hyper
competitive men you know and they were
they're very concerned about their bonus
but not because they needed the money
said well the money is just a way of
keeping score and they all said that
they all knew that they laughed about it
it's like they wanted a bigger bonus
than the next guy the amount didn't
matter the comparative amount mattered a
lot and it was it's part of a status
ranking you know and and that's
everything for young men status ranking
God yes I mean they'll they'll die for
that they'll kill for that like it's not
like we don't know this it's in the
criminology literature this is Crystal
Clear know the gang a tremendous amount
of gang violence
is is status competition but even more
than the even the economic element of
that is subordinate to the status
competition so yeah that's that's C
clear crystal clear so all right there's
another idea that I need to put this
post or counter enlightenment idea up
against uh what's going on in Hamas
Israel that conflict you've got two
religions supposedly both packaging up a
ton of wisdom but when they Collide it's
ugly and it won't go away is there a
danger in trying to communicate wisdom
in a religious package of course there's
danger in every in everything in every
Endeavor
um the danger is the confusion of the
religious Enterprise with dogmatic
certainty fundamentally I mean there's
no reason to assume at all that the
religious Enterprise can't degenerate
into totalitarian psychopathy for that
matter does all the time not least
because it's in the interest of the
totalitarian Psychopaths to hijack the
religious Enterprise now they do that
all the time that's their modus operandi
again that's the same people that Christ
is contending with constantly in the
gospels I mean at multiple levels he
contends with the tyrants themselves
from Rome but it's not like there's no
tyrants in the Jewish community and all
of those tyrants use religion to be
tyrannical with and yeah it's the most
egregious sin or one of the most
egregious sins so the third commandment
it depends on how you count them but the
third commandment is generally held to
indicate something like like do not use
God's name in vain and people think that
means don't swear and it kind of means
that some trivial way but mostly what it
means
is do not claim Divine motivation for
self-serving behavior and that's what
all the protesters are doing we're so
compassionate in public it's like no I
don't think so I think you're
narcissistic Psychopaths fundamentally
and if you're not well at that moment
you're certainly possessed by that
Spirit look at how good we are that's
why Christ says in the gospels not to
let your left hand know what your right
hand is doing if you're going to be good
do it in secret why so you don't so you
don't fall prey to the temptation to
make your good subordinate to your
pride right that's what the bloody edle
mothers do all the time look how much I
love my
son yeah he doesn't even have a penis
anymore we solved that problem for him
wow yeah wow it's so bloody it's so
brutal it's so dark it's it's virtually
unimaginable it's such a pit it's so
awful and then the mother can parade
around with what what has she got her
son's genitals on a stick so she can
parade down the street oh absolutely and
show her neighbors look how
compassionate I am no matter what he
turns into I still love
him brutal would you say that or would
it be something more along the lines of
he is so loving and so compassionate for
having been at my breast that he has
essentially voluntarily discarded these
tox name that'd be her cover
story and you know the other part of
that secret desire is well immense
hatred for men immense immense hatred
for men for for or For What that
particular breed of woman thinks men
stand for and are so you know where
where does that come from if for comes
from all sorts of places lots of those
lots of women like that were terribly
damaged by Men by power Mad Men you know
who hurt them in all sorts of terrible
ways they lots of these people you know
you hear their story and you think well
it's no wonder you think that way but
that's that's no that's no excuse
because many people who are terribly
abused don't grow up to be abusers they
decide that they're going to take the
opposite route you know you can learn a
lot from being abused and one of the
things you can learn is not to do it so
what idea has possessed them that makes
them break bad when that horrific thing
happens to
them I think you have to read my new
book I can't I can't I can't simp it's
too complicated to simplify see if I can
come up with some
reasonable I'm virtuous because I was
hurt
that'd be that's part of it for sure
yeah and that's part of the if you're a
victim you're an infant and if you're a
infant victim then you're moral and to
be protected at all cost and anything
that threatens you as a predator and
there's nothing too terrible for a
predator right to meet out to a predator
which is another part of the underground
attraction for that because this is the
horror show of the oppressor oppressed
narrative once you identify the
oppressed and you identify them with
innocence you identify the oppressor
with predation or even worse parasitical
predation it's exactly what Hitler did
to the Jews 100% predatory parasite what
do you do with predatory parasites you
burn them to the ground no holds B no no
punishment is too extreme and then well
then you get oswit so brutal and then
you get to have all the Delights of
being the Ashwi owitz guard
and then the darkest part of your soul
has the chance to come out and
play is that what you think is going on
right now I was I was taken aback I did
not see it coming that uh there were Pro
Palestine marches on October 8th so
Israel's response yeah yeah yeah that's
definitely what's happening I mean it's
very straightforward it's
algorithmic oppressor oppressed how do
you know the oppressors they're
statistically over represented in
position of authority and obviously by
definition then they're oppressors well
who's most statistically over
represented in positions of authority
Jews that'ss like the doors open man so
why are they the canary and the coal
mine why in a way that is so bizarre
throughout history part of the reason
it's part of it is the reason I just
said so then you might say well why are
they more likely to be successful well
they're smarter that's part of it by a
lot you mean at a truly biological level
they just as a group they have a higher
IQ yeah and they have neurological
problems that go along with that like is
that controversial or are people course
it
is but do people debate the fact stupid
people debate
it well I'm serious like the the the the
int the IQ literature has something in
it to appall everyone deeply I I
mastered that literature in like
19934 with a student of mine who I still
work with brilliant student he got
bounced right out of the whole academic
world because of the response to his
work partly on IQ well we were looking
at neuropsychological functions
associated with the prefrontal cortex
specifically but it devolved into IQ
because everything to do with
abstraction devolves into IQ IQ is a
brutal literature and so and Jews you
know what ashkanazi Jews specifically
they have IQs that are probably 15
points higher than the typical than the
typical 15 points yeah so they're
radically over over represented so you
know at the middle that doesn't make
that much difference although it makes
some they're very likely to be at the
top of their class but if you go out to
like IQ 145 where the serious action
starts Jews are way over represented and
if you don't like that theory well how
about they have a giant conspiracy to
take over the world as a substitute
Theory so I don't care which of those
theories you like it's like you're GNA
both of them are like fire both of those
theories are fire and so but you're
stuck with one or the other so that's
life that's life you know and so what
what should happen is that people should
be bloody happy that there's smart Jews
around and the Jews should be very
careful not to take their intellectual
superiority as a marker of what would
you say excess intrinsic worth no I'm
not saying that they are more prone to
that than anyone else by the way but it
is a it is a Temptation for intelligent
people to identify with their
intelligence and to become prideful
right that's actually how in some ways
how God keeps the Eternal scales of
cosmic Justice balanced so imagine
you're born with an IQ of
145 well then you might think well
that's not very fair because what about
the poor guy who's born with an IQ of 85
and those are very different they're
very very very very different and and
you say well that's completely unfair
it's like fair enough but the guy with
the IQ of 145 is is prone to The
Temptations of the pride of the
intellect and that is Lucifer right like
that's the worst Temptation and so
Lucifer is the spirit of intellect gone
most dreadfully wrong and so sure you
can have an IQ of 145 but man you better
uh you better be on your knees in
gratitude that that gift was given to
you and you better not misuse it because
if that thing takes the upper hand you
are are in the hands of the worst
possible agent of Destruction and of
course like well no it's the intellect
that goes most dreadfully wrong that's
not the worst possible threat so
obviously that's the worst possible
threat and so you know it says in the
gospels that if you've been given a lot
you there'll be a lot demanded of you
and that goes for intelligent people
they better develop some
humility uh a a virtue that's sadly
lacking at the moment with our worship
of Pride let's say pride and Hedonism
Jesus brutal those two ideas in
particular you think grip people
today power pride and Hedonism yeah
that's a that's
a yeah absolutely well if you make your
sexual identity paramounts
like you've identified the eye with with
the impulse essentially with the whim
right because sex is a whim like
obviously
now does it rule well what what is it
that you are if sex
rules you're the wolf that's for sure
that's for sure and a wolf to yourself
too so you know when you see this
ambivalence on the left because on the
one hand anything goes in all forms of
sexuality are to be like celebrated
worshiped essentially because
celebration and worship are the same
thing yet sex is so dangerous especially
between like members of of a young
heterosexual pair that absolutely every
single bit of it has to be regulated
right to the last word it's like well
you Lous breeds tyranny that's why the
[ __ ] of Babylon is on the great Scarlet
beast of the state at the end of
time tell me exactly what that means
when you break it down well imagine that
when masculinity degenerates the state
pathologizes the patriarchy pathologizes
what happens to
females they pathologize too well where
do how do they pathologize in the
direction of disinhibited
sexuality
so 35% of internet traffic is
pornographic yeah but that's not driven
by women that's driven by men it's
driven by Bloody women too who parading
themselves absolutely it might be like
there's no shortage of electronic pimps
and death desate Engineers let's say but
that doesn't mean the women who engage
in that are Innocent by any stretch of
the imagination they're they're uh
they're doing the same thing with their
sexuality that that that the that people
granted the talent of intelligence to
with their with their with their gift
look at me it's
like no no wrong wrong those women
online displaying themselves they're
succubi they're not human you're a fool
if you think that's human you're a fool
at minimum it's a machine human
hybrid a woman doesn't appear in a
million places at the same time whatever
that is that's not a
woman yeah what do you make of the only
fans dynamic between men and women the
more I look at this the more I'm getting
freaked out there was a a woman named
you have to stop looking
looking at it truly through a research
lens but uh B deline I believe is her
name uh back in 2020 she sold 10 million
pounds worth of her bath
water oh that's perfect the hor of
Babylon has a cup full of liquid by the
way in Gold a gold cup full of liquid
that she offers the world really
absolutely absolutely absolutely look at
how wonderful this is it's actually what
does it say in the Book of Revelations
it's filled with the filth of her
Abominations God perfect so what is that
it's people wanting to consume that
thing they can't have that they have
idolized of course of course it's it
it's it's people wanting to consume the
thing that is denied to them because
they hid their light under a
bushel because they hid uh they hid who
they could become from themselves and
never pursued it sure and so they're not
attractive to themselves or anyone else
Abol holy [ __ ] okay so that's for sure
oh yes brutal brutal Brut You' got women
uh ascending to a position of Power with
that weird dynamic of
postmodernism uh they've been given a
gift of being able to persuade men
through their beauty to do what they
will to get the attention that they want
now as a mechanical hybrid they're able
to appear in tens of thousands hundreds
of thousand millions of
sit on the chests of men and take their
Essence from them and then men are
hiding their potential away from
themselves because they're punished for
but that then that gives them an excuse
for not doing it because they think well
I'm going to the young guys let's say
who decide to be useless you know some
of it's genuine response to not being
encouraged and to being punished some of
it is but some of it it's pretty
convenient it's like you don't have to
put your cross on your shoulder like no
one wants me to do that anyways it's
like well yeah that that's always been
the case and I mean in some ways you
know there's there's new impediments
to striding forward confidently but
there's always been
impediments you it's so interesting so I
uh I train anybody that will
listen uh that you need to have beliefs
in your life and since facts are
overwhelming it's not about recognizing
what's true it's about recognizing
what's useful is how I think of it uh so
you have a set of beliefs you have a set
of values so you have hierarchy what
matters relationship to the right end
that's correct a th% which is why I
always lead with you have to have a goal
and that goal needs to be honorable so
you've got well you see so the thing is
that's where your God
lies your God lies in well your God lies
in the ineffable of in the ineffable
extent of what you regard as useful so
imagine that useful tilts in a in a
direction the sum total of all that
would of all that would be most properly
useful the essence of that that's the
god that's the implicit God yeah I'm
realizing I have built from the ground
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designed to do all the things that
religion does it's really interesting
this to me is it's fascinating because
whenever you discover the same thing
from multiple different disciplines you
can be pretty sure you're converging on
the truth because everybody's just going
what actually works uh but the last
thing the last part of my cocktail is
rules so you need rules in your life
basically there need to be things that
you don't do um I'm that's good that's
good that's exactly right that's that's
where cons so you can imagine the spirit
of God in the Old Testament makes
himself manifest in two forms
calling and conscience and conscience is
that what you just described it's like
the guard rails it's like you're going
off the path you know so there's fences
and warnings on the conscience side but
it's the same thing and that it's the
dynamic between this is what happens in
the movie
Pinocchio so Pinocchio is called out
into the world his father is benevolent
a benevolent Creator that's jepetto he's
called out into the world to make
himself manifest to realize himself to
become real and there's two things that
attract him he wants to go out and learn
and have his Adventure that's the
calling and but that has to be allied
with the conscience and the reason for
that is the calling alone gets him in
trouble like first of all it entices him
to becoming a narcissistic Psychopathic
manipulative actor that's when he's on
stage right then it entices him into
lying to get away with things and to get
what he wants so that's another
extension that manipulation then it
entices him to become neurotic enough so
that he can take a permanent holiday
then he goes to Pleasure Island where he
can engage in Hedonism that's where the
slavers are right and so he needs that's
what that's what just the calling alone
you know we'll take them places that are
attractive but not appropriate you need
a conscience along for the ride and
that's Jiminy Cricket right and Jiminy
Cricket is what bugs
you exactly yes and so that's one of the
places you can find your destiny is in
what bothers you there's going to be an
array of things that make themselves
manifest to you as callings of your
conscience those are problems those are
your problems why is that your problem
it's like well can you stop thinking
about it
does it bug you all the time well hey
there you go that's your destiny right
where does this all go you've got Canada
has declined economically you guys are
now making 60% of what Americans are
making China we can do worse than that
with Jesus let's hope not uh China is
watching everything everybody does
they're Way Beyond
1984 2024 in the US is uh it's
terrifying the election does it actually
build up the Civil War I don't know yep
UK you've got conflict Russia Ukraine
you've got conflict
Israel yeah like where does this go that
depends on how many of us shoulder our
crosses and walk
uphill I I really mean that like we're
at that
point wake up figure out which side
you're on if you were a betting man what
odds do you give
um US Civil War what odds do you give
World War
II well
we we're already in World War
II so I'd give that 100% how far will it
go depends on how stiff necked we
are right so the Egyptian Tyrant is
visited by is it 10 plagues the last
plague is the destruction of the future
itself that's the death of the firstborn
so you know it depends on how hard we
have to be hit before we wake up and
there's no end to that you know I mean
God destroys the whole world in a
flood you know that never happened it's
like how about it's happening all the
time how about it's happened forever
it's happening now it will happen
forever how high does the water have to
rise till people learn
and what does it mean to learn well this
is why I'm a psychologist not a
politician or a theologian to whatever
degree I lay pretensions to that someone
concerned with spiritual matters let's
say psychological
matters Redemption is a matter of
individual determination so that's why I
operate at the big level of the
individual how far will we have to go
depends on how many sins you decide to
continue harboring
how are you connected how is that
decision connected to the destiny of the
world we all bear the world on our
shoulders how how can that be
true here's one way of thinking about
it how much better would the people
around you be if you were
better some
obviously what's the ultimate extent of
that
what if you were everything you could
be that's what you're called upon to be
you're called upon to be everything you
can be why not least because the try
getting through the world without doing
it then you'll end up in the position of
Cain you didn't offer your best you'll
be rejected by man woman and God and
yourself and then what then you're
bitter then you're fratricidal then
you're murderous then you're
genocidal then the flood comes or you
erect the Tower of
Babel it's always the same and now you
can see it like it's just right
there why because it's happening so fast
reading the book beyond
order there was a part in there that
struck me as this is going to be the new
Battleground that Jordan is gonna be
fighting on do you have good do you have
a sense of um what in the book is going
to trigger
people no I mean I didn't think that the
lobster example from the last book was
going to be so pillared I mean I thought
it was I thought it was really cool it's
like oh my God serotonin mediates
dominance in lobsters and people how
ancient how
remarkable but well that took off in all
sorts of directions you know and people
made fun of it it's like well you can
make fun of 350 million years of
evolutionary history if you
want you can put your social
constructionism up against 350 million
years of evolutionary history good luck
to
you I didn't think it was like and you
know the idea that I was trying to
insist that because lobsters live in
hierarchies that
hierarchies are the source of all moral
value let's you know that's I was trying
to insist that hierarchies are are so
inevitable that you see nervous systems
adapting to them across virtually every
level of
animal and why well because some things
are valuable and since and within any
given domain of value some valuable
things are more valuable than other
things and so you have a hierarchy
there's no avoiding it as long as you
need something as long as there's
scarcity a hierarchy is
inevitable yeah you know nobody cares
how many big pens you
have it's because they're not
scarce so you can't have status because
you have 200 of them but as soon as
there's scarcity there's a hierarchy and
there's always scarcity of one form or
another no matter how rich you get you
know if you're if you have $100 million
Picasso paintings are still
scarce yeah the uh the push back on the
The Lobster thing falls into two things
for me one I don't understand why people
look for a reason not to listen to
somebody which to me most of people
coming after you for that one just they
didn't want you to be right or to be
heard and so they went after something
that they thought they could mify and
and shut down on and then the I
understand that like I understand that I
it's obvious why people are looking for
a reason not to listen to someone it's
like how godamn many people can you
listen to there's n billion of them you
know so you have to not listen to almost
everyone and so you'll fall for any
excuse and sometimes that's not so good
you know because you have a bias that
prejudices you against a Viewpoint that
you actually need that's that's a
problem but the phenomenon itself like
you know you you mentioned sorry to
bring this up again but because it's
Germaine and and relevant someone said
something disparaging about me and they
were on your staff it's like well you
have lots of options for guests you're
looking for
no you're always looking for no because
you can only say yes to a very limited
number of things so that's another
reason we have to be very careful about
our prejudices
because we need them you know to I don't
mean Prejudice in the obvious in the
inappropriate social sense but Jesus we
have to shield oursel from an excess of
information we're very limited capacity
processors no question I I don't
understand though I don't understand
really and it's really killing me I
think I might might mean that literally
I don't understand why I'm so
controversial I can't figure that out
it's very distressing to
me you want me to take a stab at it sure
good metaphor all right so my gut
instinct in terms of why a certain type
of person uh responds negatively to
you
is when you think of a person as a blank
slate and that we all have this
Collective responsibility to make sure
that everybody ends up the same then you
saying some people are better at
something than others already is feels
judgmental and so it is oh yes for sure
and but when you have a collectivist
view and you believe that everyone
should have equal outcome which by the
way I think everybody yourself included
like if only right like that would be
amazing like if everybody could live
truly in Harmony and that didn't violate
principles of just the human animal
which is why I just remind people to
remember you're having a biological
experience but you say things that are
they violate a deeply compassionate
person's desire to take care of
everybody the sort of No Child Left
Behind type thing and when you insist on
in your own life like I'm only going to
say that which is true and I'm certainly
not going to let somebody force me to
say something I don't believe is true so
now with that and by the way all of that
and this is a key thing I think you have
to understand you're fighting with a
level of intensity that makes sense when
you realize your obsession with what
happened in the 20th century the gulg
archipelago what happened there uh
obviously Nazi Germany Mouse China like
the number of people that have been
killed in these essentially social
experiments so you have this deep
intense thing trying to get people to
understand like hierarchies are real
there's no escaping them not everybody
is as good as everybody else at
everything and by the way you have to
shoulder resp responsibility and that's
where people are like you just to them I
cannot and before I say what they think
I will reiterate you have changed my
life forever and for the better I will
forever be grateful to the things that
you continue to put out into the world
and I missed you horribly as a thought
leader during 2020 of all years to be on
a Jordan Peterson diet I was not happy
about that but what they think of is
that you're being mean for the sake of
being mean that you're not not trying to
help them see you cannot pretend reality
isn't reality in pretending that the
dragon is not there the dragon does not
go away the dragon grows more powerful
more likely to devour you and your
family and so yeah you get
smaller but they don't see that and so
that's why I'm like when I see people
attack you I'm like Jesus Christ how
many times does he have to say this is
about a balance between Order and Chaos
that you need both of these things that
you have to show the responsibility
because that is what real reality
demands that you're in you're nested in
an evolutionary context there are things
like hierarchies that will play out in
uh in the the body perception exactly
and so you may not want to feel bad when
you walk in the room and are worse at
something than everybody else but you're
going to you may not want to feel bad
when you're rejected but you're going to
you may not want to feel bad because
you're just lazing around your house and
not doing anything but you're going to
and you have peered into enough of human
nature to recognize hey there are just
certain truisms you've now given us 24
of the I forget how many were originally
in the core article 49 or whatever so 42
42 okay we've got 24 the answer to the
life the universe and everything right
is that all Hof's number so oh my God
that's perfect actually uh it it is this
incredible Thing Once you break free
from ideology and that's where again
this is one of the rules in Beyond order
not to fall prey to ideology this is
where I thought you were going in the
beginning with identity I thought you
were going to say identity has become
pathological because it has become it's
been simplified you talk about this in
Beyond order once you simplify something
and this is how an ideologue gets you
they simplify it they make it very
understandable becomes very clear who's
in and who's out you can reward and
punish based on that people are grabbing
these unnegotiable
s determined pieces of identity that
don't necessarily bring value to the
larger World which will create
dissonance in their own life because
they've got all this substructure
running telling tradeable
value you know what I mean it's like I'm
not saying there're like your race I
suppose is a
value but it's not a tradable value and
your gender and your sex the same thing
it's like I guess it's partly because
there's no
scarcity you know it's like we've got
enough White people being white doesn't
buy you
anything so and I I'm not saying that
with any pleasure that's what I think
people miss this is why I think people
come after you they don't recognize that
you're not saying it you're not
relishing in this you want people to be
happy and I'm always so confused Jordan
I don't know why you remain as
vulnerable and open as you are after the
time saying I was like what the [ __ ] you
sounded so kind open compassionate after
what four years of you know some
percentage of the world relentlessly
slandering you and obviously you get
people that cheer you on probably way
more people that cheer you on than don't
but you still remain vulnerable which is
[ __ ] incredible but the fact that
they don't recognize that you're trying
to help like I could get it if they said
hey look I disagree with J on this or
the other but maybe they do recognize is
that you know there's a lot of cynicism
about the help and I I can't understand
why you'd be cynical about help unless
you weren't that help weren't that
pleased about the idea of help you know
like all these deplorables that I'm
helping these angry young
men you know they don't deserve
help well I don't think that I don't
know anyone that doesn't deserve
help you know there's this idea in the
New Testament that you should your
enemies it's
like why would you do that
well it'd be better if they
weren't your
enemies and their unnecessary suffering
doesn't
help it's not
helpful it's not like you don't you know
anyone with any sense anyone who's human
is liable to take pleasure in vengeance
or even in but you know when people go
after the journalists that have gone
after me I don't take any pleasure in
that I don't sit back at my home and rub
my hands and think you
know you got what was coming to you I do
think sometimes you've got what was
coming to you but I think of that more
like watching someone in the road you
know they're in the road and they have
their back turned and a truck runs over
them it's like well you were in the road
and there was a truck
and so you got what was coming to you
because you were on the road and there
was a truck but I don't take any
pleasure in
it I don't see that it's
helpful what do you want people to get
out of Beyond order it it is
extraordinarily well thought through it
is very well laid out each sentence
Stacks like a brick upon the next I
wouldn't advise I don't know if you feel
differently but I wouldn't advise people
to read them out of order it's literally
this very careful case being made that
taken in totality is breathtaking you
read them in either order I think you
can read them in either order I tried
maybe maybe they're better read in order
but but um I think that if you read the
second one first then it would color
your vision of the first one I mean I
mean the rules the I think you're right
12 rules for life and Beyond order it
doesn't matter they're yin and yang well
you mean the rules themselves the rules
themselves just it it Stacks so well
otherwise it wouldn't be a book okay I
mean each the thing about writing a book
is that you're outside of time and space
in relationship with the book because
chapter 1 comes before chapter 12 but
not when you're writing it you can go
back and modify chapter 1 because of
chapter 12 I did try to tie them
together so that they make a book you
know and they one builds upon another
that's like that's the musical element
of it as well the re recurrent themes
I'm glad you liked it see I can't tell I
can't evaluate it um I'm hoping that it
it's of the same level of quality that
the first book was and I'm not making
any claims saying that about the level
of quality of the first book I'm just
that was as good as I could do and I
wrote the second one under unbelievable
duress yeah and so I can't tell if it's
you know whether that was
a curse or well certainly a curse and no
doubt about that I don't know what how
it impacted the book though it's hard to
say what do I want people to get out of
it
well I'm hoping that they find it useful
the same way they seem to have found the
first one I'm embarrass book actually
hurts me actually both of them hurt me I
would
say
because I'm ashamed you know of what's
happened to me what do you mean
and there books about life and my life
is I'm very hurt a very destroyed person
in many ways and so I
feel
unworthy Unworthy of
what you name it
I hope people find it useful you
know I hope it alleviates some
unnecessary
suffering that's the goal here's how I
read your books and everything that
you've put out into the
world the people that should write the
instruction manual are the people that
have struggled and in your suffering you
have been able to piece together useful
information which is the barometer by
which I judge a book's value for sure
the reason people flock to
your lectures they buy your book is you
have made in modern times the single
most coherent and useful instruction
manual for
Life period so the I fear that the
Brokenness that you feel the heartache
that you feel translates into something
usable that couldn't be written by
somebody that had
gone through what you've gone
through well I would like to believe
that was true you know there's a bit too
much self-justification in it for my
taste
but I thought the other day I'd probably
do this too
and I would I have to record an
announcement for this book because it's
coming out on Tuesday I thought the best
announcement would be just to thank
people for all of their kind attention
I'm very
fortunate in that
regard I get letters from people all the
time
that whether they open up their hearts
you know it's really
something but I am somewhat non-plus
let's
say for all this work I'm pretty
broken in general or just in this
moment don't
know I think in
general man well I will say this as
somebody whose life you have touched and
the thing I want you to recognize in me
as I imagine countless other people want
you to recognize in them more than warm
wishes is I have put to use the things
that you're teaching and they have made
my life better and they have made the
lives of those around me
better
and man it is really heartbreaking to
see you
um go through what you're going through
now and I I certainly get it um you know
and I don't know you well enough to
offer you any sort of um
familial consolation so I will just say
that what you do matters probably more
than you think it does certainly as much
as you think it does and I I had never
met you through 2020 and I started
reaching out to people that we both know
asking about you because I I believe
that the world needs the insights that
you uniquely have coming from your
background of Mythology and
understanding what is deeply ingrained
in the human psyche from an
evolutionarily shaped
perspective and that nobody is putting
it together the way that you're putting
it together and the fact that you've
been you know I mean hopefully it's it's
small in comparison to the people that
are supporting you but Jesus like I
don't I I know I would not put up with
the amount of [ __ ] that you've put up
with and the fact that I think the
individual is the only way to approach
any systemic problem like you just have
to deal with the individuals and then
from there it will Echo out into society
and so the fact that that's your
approach um I kept telling people we
need Jordan Peterson right now and I'm
so grateful you're back and I know this
book will
be very successful because I'm glad you
liked it I'm glad you liked it because
like I said I it's really hard for me to
evaluate it you know sometimes I well I
have every possible thought that you
could have about it you know sometimes I
read it and I think well that seemed to
have turned out pretty good and other
times I Think Jesus I've said this 50
times already and yeah I I'm all over
the place I can't I think that happens
it happens when you write a book you get
so because you know if when you read
someone else's book you can kind of tell
if the ideas are original at least in so
far as you're concerned well I can't
tell because I these are my ideas well
not all of them obviously but there
ideas I'm at least deeply familiar with
so I can't tell to what degree it's
original none of it and so I and it's
it's also I suppose I'm quite
apprehensive about its release in some
sense because I've set myself up an
impossible second act you know because
the first book was so insanely popular I
think it's 6 million copies now in in
all the languages it's been published in
so
um that's impossible that never happens
right it's it's certainly it's like
winning the lottery it's probably less
probable than winning the lottery in
fact I'm virtually certain that it's
less probable than winning the lottery
and to to imagine doing that twice is
well that's just it happens but it's
highly
improbable anyways it's going to all
come and then you know I'm in a
different space than I was when I
released this first book
so this is compared to all this is going
to be compared to all my electronic
avatars which are busily working out
there in the world I think there's more
of me outside of me now than there is
inside of me weirdly enough that's
another phenomenon I can't really get my
hand my my my uh mind around you know
the power of YouTube Jesus that's quite
the
technology when I put those first videos
up you know I was this was bothering me
this piece of legislation and for a
variety of reasons some of which we've
discussed I talked to