Kind: captions
Language: en
if you want to do well with women you
are going to have to understand it as an
art you don't need to be fake but you do
need to be strategic every move or non-m
move that you make makes you more or
less desirable and if you're naive to
that you're not going to get anywhere if
on the other hand you come to understand
women generally and how to be both
Artful and genuine in seduction you've
got a shot to help in this effort I'm
joined by best-selling author Robert
Green what should men learn learn from
the fact that women fantasize about
vampires and billionaires seduction
involves the desire to lose control and
Men share this as well which is why men
are often attracted to women who are
slightly dangerous women who are either
a little bit crazy or women who have
this incredible Sexual Energy that can
almost dominate a man so seduction
involves Crossing up closely to that
border of something that's dangerous
where you might be overwhelmed
particularly in the day in in our world
today where things are getting more and
more Puritan and people are more
constrained by political correctness and
all these tenance that we're supposed to
adhere to that we lead rather dull
constricted lives we're not playful
enough we don't things are too ordered
and conventional and regimented in our
world but secretly we want to get out of
that secretly we are drawn to what is
dangerous to what we can't really
control seduction is a sense of I'm
letting go a little bit I'm entering a
world where the other person is leading
me through an adventure and that's the
excitement that's the kind of
transgressive element a dangerous person
is always going to have that a vampire I
can understand billionaire is a
different thing I mean billionaire has
to do with security and comfort and
money and the sense of a man who's made
it you know he must have some quality
that's that got him into that position
kind of thing the fantasy of you can
have any kind of object that you desire
like in a fairy tale because this man
has billions of dollars so he can afford
whatever you want I prefer when I'm
thinking about seduction to deal with
kind of real life situation scenarios I
understand romantic fiction but romantic
fiction isn't isn't what aren't
characters in real life that we're going
to be encountering so it's a little bit
distanced from me it's interesting the
way I look at that and the reason I
found the book a billion Wicked thoughts
so intriguing is I think it is
absolutely revelatory what men and women
spend their time fantasizing about it
certainly gives you a sense of the
underlying algorithm that's running in
all of our brains you know the fact that
male pornography and male pornographic
searches are all around like body parts
and um things like it's basically just
body parts that that really there's not
even an and there it's just that's what
male searches are all about they're
describing the thing they want to see so
it's all like hyper visual whereas the
fact that women um are into a totally
different kind of uh erotic stimulation
to me that was that alone was already
revelatory that they like story based
they want to read that their porn is
read Because what I'm hoping guys will
get out of this episode is an
understanding that there is an art to
seduction you're not being fake by
acknowledging that and the reason I
wanted to start with where people
fantasies lie is because if you
understand that you understand the
algorithm that you're trying to trip
into now of course you're going to do it
in a way that's far more real and
grounded I'm not saying to act like a
vampire but uh to to just address your
work as it relates to both the vampire
and the billionaire at least as I read
it is um you talk a lot about there
there is a type and I forget what which
name it is for the type of Seduction um
archetype but where they're playing with
androgen
and dandy The Dandy okay so the Dandy
Blends the two so there's a familiarity
for the woman of a vamp I think of
vampires as being somewhat androgynous
they're usually Ultra refined there's an
aristocratic air to them and so you have
this the The Dandy portrayal in that
mixing the androgyny but then you need
the like you talk a lot about Errol
Flynn who had flashes of danger and so
to me that's the vampire the vampire is
obviously in the extreme obvious viously
in the abstract it's fiction but it
really does hint at something real and
so getting people to understand this is
the algorithm that's running in a
woman's brain that it is very different
than the algorithm that's running in the
male brain and so your job is going to
be if you if you're going to seduce
somebody again this is me quoting you
you have to be them focused and not you
focused yeah um but then you know it's
what's a little bit tricky here is you
have to think that each woman has their
own separate fantasy so first of all
it's a particular type of woman that's
reading romantic fiction not all women
are reading that kind of thing but each
person that you deal with has their own
particular fantasies right and you want
to be very sensitive to that so if you
come at this with this idea that women
have these preset kind of um ideals then
you're already in trouble because you
want as far as being you oriented you
want to drop everything and you want to
enter their world and look at the signs
that they that they're giving out as to
what their fantasies are if they happen
to be reading that kind of fiction and
they happen to be reading those kinds of
stories then great a little red light
goes on in your head but you want to be
looking at all the other signs that
they're giving out as well you know the
movies that they watch the music that
they listen to the clothes that they
wear you know if a woman seems to be
particularly
repressed that's a sign that they're
going to be attracted to that danger
element right so you want to be pay
paying deep attention to the individual
this is a problem that men have in
general that they need to address
they're thinking in generic terms
they're thinking that they don't
individualize the woman and the worst
thing you can do in seduction is to give
the other person the idea that you are
coming at them and thinking of of
somebody else you're thinking in terms
of stereotypes you're thinking in terms
of your previous girlfriends you're not
looking at them as an individual the
kinds of things that they love the kinds
of things that they that you can Prov
them that they're missing in life so the
game is most the most important game as
opposed to just thinking in terms of of
these categories is dropping all of that
stuff in your head and just looking at
the woman and entering her world and
seeing it for what it is that's half the
game of Seduction because if they feel
that you are individualizing your
attention that is absolutely the key to
any kind of Seduction because we don't
get any kind of individualized attention
in this world we're hungry for it and
particularly women coming from men
because men don't seem to understand the
fantasy element as you say a fantasy is
kind of a story it's like a drama it's
going and and so when you're seducing
someone it's a story that you're
bringing them into you're creating
theater you're creating drama you're
leading them into this world just like
an author will lead a Reader through a
series of steps right but you have to be
very focused on them and who they are in
particular and sedu ction involves a
sense of
vulnerability right a sense of openness
where you're letting the other person
come into you and the word vulnerable
comes from the Latin meaning wound so
vulnerable means the willingness to be
wounded right and the archetypal um
image of love and seduction was Cupid
with an arrow and hitting you with an
arrow and wounding you with love and
creating blood from it it's like there's
pain involved because you're opening
yourself to another person you're
willing for them to hurt you and you
know that you could be hurt and so the
origin of Seduction actually comes from
our relationship to our parents and
often times for a man or a woman Yung
talked about this in terms of an animus
and an anima and speaking as a man you
know anima figures are those kind of
women that inhabit your dreams and I
have dreams all the time of that kind of
anim woman it's usually usually a
certain type A Certain look certain kind
of feel to it okay and that anima figure
for the man comes mostly from these
earliest relationships in childhood like
the mother figure generally could be a
sibling and when you're a boy and you're
facing your mother you're completely
vulnerable you're weak you're dependent
and that sense of being dependent is a
source of a lot of your erotic tension
but also a lot of your fears because men
are afraid afraid of Letting Go afraid
of being dependent afraid of being
overwhelmed right so you carry within
you these images of the anima and the
animos You're vulnerable in those
moments right but what you happen what
happens to you as you get older is you
try and make yourself
invulnerable because life is hard it's
harsh people are coming at you with a
million different things you Retreat
into yourself into your ego into your
little castle you build walls around
yourself and you you're afraid of
letting someone in you're afraid of let
letting go you're afraid of losing your
defenses and in the 2023 it's worse than
ever before because the world is very
very
intrusive people secretly want to be
vulnerable I just wrote a chapter about
this in my Sublime book in in relation
to the idea of love people want to feel
vulnerable they're just afraid and so
it's I think very psychologically
important for people today particular
Ally for young people to be willing to
be vulnerable and to experience what
that's like to experience letting go of
your defenses if you're hurt how do you
deal with that because never you're
going to be hurt that builds life skills
that builds toughness that builds kind
of thickness in your in you where you
can endure being hurt because life
involves in all sorts of hurts and
you're able to function with it and and
and actually invite it in it's almost
good sometimes to invite a little bit of
pain in your life life when you want to
get physically well and you want to
exercise you you realize that getting
well involves pain involves repetitions
it involves running so far that it hurts
a little bit right so you have you want
to be able to welcome a little bit of
that pain so I think where we are in our
culture right now seduction is
incredibly important and I must say that
on all of my social media when I do a um
a little video about seduction I get the
most views of all and the irony is that
more than ever that word seduction has
like an element of ew I don't like that
I don't want to be seduced oh what an
ugly book oh Robert's really evil but
secretly people are yearning to be
seduced so that's that's my answer to
your question it's a great answer so now
the thing I want to know is all right
vulnerability is about a wound Opening
Our eles up to being wounded in going
through that process we learn a lot
about ourselves and how to be in some
sort of ironic sense uh by being
vulnerable you're able to develop
strength and a willingness to expose
yourself like that why are people so
hungry for it now why as we get more
puritanical as we have to worry about
political correctness why is it that the
desire to let go becomes a thing that
we're crying out for well people are
generally ambivalent I try and make a
case when I talk to people that your
emotions are never singular they're
never one thing we're we're const we
have many moves our emotions are
continually passing like clouds in the
sky they're never set or fixed right so
as Yung points out and a lot of other
psychologists when you have a strong
quality let's say a man who's hyper
masculine who's so tough and rugged you
can bet that underneath it is is an
insecure Purity is a feminine streak
that he is afraid of revealing so when
people reveal a strong quality such as
defensiveness such as resistance such as
puritanical things such as virtue
signaling such as I'm the saint and
everybody else is evil you can bet that
lurking underneath is a deep deep
insecurity of I'm actually the opposite
I'm hiding the opposite and the sense of
being inauthentic of repressing a part
of our s is very painful that secret
self I call it the Lost self it wants to
come out it wants to play it wants to be
like that child and go out and play and
be in the world and so when somebody
enters your life who touches upon that
who has a little bit of that dark energy
and you fall for it it's because you've
been repressing it and it's it's
secretly what you want very much so I
think people secretly want to be seduced
now and I see signs of it in our culture
I've seen signs of it in politics you
find a a uh a what's the word um well
like a a a charismatic politician
there's a word I can't seem to my mind
isn't a little bit slow today um that
has this sort of strong quality like a
demagogue demagogue thank you thank you
God you you have to be my brain today CU
sometimes it's like not clicking there
so the demagogue we're attracted to the
demagogue because secretly we want that
kind of power we want that dark side to
come out into play it's all through our
culture entertainment is wreaking with
this stuff you know you have in movies
if you want to talk about vampires and
going back to your vampire
thing all of the evil characters the
seducers yes in the movie we may
moralize them we may say they're awful
they're horrible we hate them but boy
all of our attention is drawn
immediately to those dark evil
characters to those seducers to those
people who have that dark energy people
are dying for it you know it's been
repressed and it's what I wrote about in
human nature about the Dark Side of our
shadow that we're trying to repress is
seduction necessarily a dark
energy it has to involve some kind of
sense of danger of something that's a
little bit
naughty so if
I want to pick up a woman and I go to a
bar just throwing out a scenario here
and it's so easy I I don't even have to
buy her a drink she follows oh yes of
course Robert I'll go home with you yes
yes you're so attracted blah blah blah
there's no interest there there's no
excitement there's no spark but a bit of
resistance a bit of I'm not so
interested oh you know I already have a
boyfriend blah blah blah whooo my
interest is
going like that so we are by Nature
attracted to what we cannot have and I
explain why that is so in the laws of
human nature on on a chapter on the
nature of our
desire things that we can have or that
we don't have excite our desire more
than anything else so a sense of
resistance a sense that we're not
supposed to have this person or that
they're not supposed to have us is
exactly what entices us into it so if
there's no element of naughtiness if
there's no element of a slight taboo or
transgressive nature it's not going to
get our juices going our erotic our
fantasy juices and all that other stuff
like my wife and I are very much in
another era my opening line to my wife
was um you're not going anywhere sit
your ass down and when I said that I was
her teacher school for adults always
feel important to say that um yeah I was
her teacher and my opening line was
playfully aggressive but aggressive and
it that our courtship was very much like
textbook seduction and it was awesome
and amazing and also now so high risk
that I don't know that I would have made
that move now and so you know look to
your point maybe over enough time this
plays out that people push back against
it and well they already are but what do
you say to people in this moment well
yeah there are boundaries you have to
respect and you and it is a cultural
moment and first of all there is nothing
in The Art of Seduction That ever even
comes close to advocating violence or
rape or or Force ing yourself or
coercion yes some of it's psychological
and I know it it kind of Teeters on that
boundary where you're
psychologically manipulating someone to
a degree but there's never any element
of physical Force right so I understand
personally I don't think that that is
seductive to be forcing yourself on it
to be that um you know overpowering I
think is is not seductive because
seduction is inviting the other person
in it's a gentleness that brings them in
later on the powerful stuff can come in
but you have to be able to to see those
codes and and respect them so there's
nothing in The Art of Seduction That
would ever violate that code I think so
I know there's a a chapter in the in in
the strategy part the second half of the
book that people point out as kind of
evil and I admit it's a little bit
teetering towards that which is about
isolating the other person so
you kind of take them to a place where
their family and their friends there's
nobody around they don't have anybody
else but you right and it could be an
island it could be a place or it could
be just literally where you take get
them away from their familiar
surroundings and when they're in
unfamiliar territory they become much
more vulnerable now I understand there's
an element you would never ever start
out of Seduction with that strategy I
have those in order it's like it's like
strategy number 17 of 24 it's towards
the end it's towards when you've gotten
them you've cast a spell and they're
hooked a little bit toward okay so in
the beginning you're respecting all of
that but as long as there's never any
taint of force of coercion because
that's what the me too movement was
about because men were exploiting and in
a bad way and not in a seductive way
were using their positions of power to
get women to do sexual favors or to
harass them in some way way there's
nothing seductive about that there's
nothing in my book about that so if
you're reading the book you don't have
to be afraid of violating any of me to
uh uh tenants in fact the opposite
because the fifth chapter or so was
enter their spirit it's all about being
incredibly incredibly receptive to who
they are as an individual right and and
knowing how to give the right gifts and
how to how to see them for who they are
etc etc etc so it's it's the reputation
of Seduction That that some people are
like think oh I don't want anything to
do with that in fact the book is banned
my book is banned in Germany they pulled
it off the shelf German people are
writing to me all the time how can I get
a copy of your book specifically The Art
of Seduction yes interesting do you have
any sense of why feminists in Germany
were protesting it feminists in France
were protesting it and I wrote a letter
to my French publisher explaining why
that's ridiculous they published it and
and the whole furer died down because it
is ridiculous did they say why like well
they found it psychologically
manipulative so a man who is who is like
that who who who there's another word
I'm missing but who could be like that
um this is a book that could help him do
figure out the various tactics for for
misleading a woman and leading her into
uh you know like grooming her for some
kind of relationship she's going to
reget reget you know first of all that
makes women seem like these weak little
fragile little dolls from the 19th
century that need all of this protection
from the from the evil man but in fact
if you you know my book explains to you
how a Seducer works and it gives you the
knowledge for how to resist him how to
recognize somebody who might be using
some of these tactics in a way that's
going to be dangerous for you and I've
had women write to me and tell me that
the book has helped them immensely in
understanding that then I'm not weak I
can figure out I can I can identify a
Seducer etc etc I can protect myself I
have the inner strength to be able to do
that so I think the book kind of fed
into this idea that I was giving
instruction but half the book is about
women seducing men which is the
absurdity I have gay seductions I have a
transgender seduction it's not a book
about men seducing women with their dark
energy it's about seduction in general
the whole psychological process it's
part of our culture where we're
infantilizing people well we don't think
that they're adults and I assume that my
readers are adults that they can see use
the book for whatever purpose it can and
a lot of it is to give them knowledge
that will help them defend themselves
against people who have bad
intentions yeah I also think it's
important for people to understand the
way the world works and the reality is
while a lot of the human animal makes us
uncomfortable the human animal is what
the human animal is and while anybody
listening I will tell you it will blow
your hair back but I highly encourage
people to read a billion Wicked thoughts
um it is what people search for when
they're searching for um pornography is
is hair raising it is really pretty eye
opening it is
shocking and that's just who we are so
under the hood is is a a monkey brain
that is worrying and has had you know
millions of years of evolution and we
think that we've escaped all that but we
haven't so and I'll I'll contextualize
my own thoughts on this subject by
saying I used to be the nice guy and I'm
very curious to know if you think nice
guys finished last I will say they do uh
I certainly did when I was when I was
playing when I was using the tactics of
a nice guy now nice guy carries weird
connotations today probably rightly so
in that quote unquote nice guys I think
are power less they don't understand the
game uh you actually had a
quote I can get really close if I have
to paraphrase but um the idea being that
um powerlessness yeah corrupts more than
power yeah it's a quote of Malcolm X
actually okay tell me more well um so we
all desire a degree of of power and
control in life and you have to
understand the word power is not just
like about politics or about Elon Musk
or anything I'm talking about in our
day-to-day lives right how we interact
with people the sense that I cannot
influence my boss my colleagues my wife
my children the people around me is
deeply deeply miserable for us right it
makes us feel powerless and when we're
powerless
we either we turn in on ourselves we end
up hating ourselves and we get depressed
or we become passive aggressive and we
start manipulating other people in ways
where which we can justify to ourselves
as oh no I'm not really doing that I'm
actually a good person but it's actually
can be very very harmful so you have to
admit that you want a degree of power
you want the the ability to influence
people and you're not going to be
hypocritical you're going to be honest
with yourself you know
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niceness is okay is a good quality if
it's under control if you understand it
and if you use it and you know how to
use it strategically and it's maybe it's
a part of your personality it's
authentic but it doesn't govern you you
are in control of it and what happens is
if you're the pleasing
type which is your whole strategy in
life is pleasing other people getting
them to like you which is you know a
quality that a lot of people have men
and women right it doesn't come from a
place of security it comes from a place
of deep deep insecurity you're not you
don't understand really who you are and
so you can't control it and so you're
always trying to please people and when
we can sense we can smell people's
insecurities and when it comes to like
seduction with between men and women
women have a sick sense of they can
smell an insecure man right and you can
they can smell it in you they can smell
it in all kinds of ways and trying so
hard to please and trying so hard to be
nice secretly indicates that you're
actually very weak inside and it's very
much a turnoff it's very anti- seductive
and
so you want to be nice but you want to
be strategic about it you want to know
sometimes I don't want to be nice
sometimes I want to show create
boundaries sometimes I want to pull back
I want to play the coet I want the woman
to know she does she can't take me for
granted right I'm not interested in her
the moment you show her that you're not
interested in her she's going to be much
more interested in you you're willing to
play a little bit that tough part of it
you're in control you're strategic you
know when to use absence and when to use
presents when to to text them and call
them and when to disappear for a couple
a week or so and make them feel like
they don't you know they they can't take
you for granted so know when to be nice
and you can use it to to effect but you
also know when I don't want to be nice
in this world and that pertains to all
sort of situations and negotiation Etc
if you're always so nice in business
you're you're going to be a doom you're
not going to survive very long I come at
this from a evolutionary perspective and
so the reason because I was so bad with
women for so long and then figured out
how to quote quot play the game and it
worked literally on a dime from what
literally from one day to the next I
could not be successful with women to I
felt like within my sexual market value
let me not oversell this but within my
sexual market value I could be
successful sort of when I wanted to be
and it it was so it was such a set of
rules that I was following that I
actually had to laugh out loud I was
like I cannot believe it took me this
long to just figure out that oh I have
to present myself a certain way that uh
you don't want to go for the close right
away that you really this is about um a
strategic revealing of your personality
it's about understanding what's going to
get them exciting you might hate this
description but it's marketing once you
understand that you're a brand you have
to establish what your brand means you
have to make them feel some kind of way
about you the way that you're
establishing your B brand better be real
and one of the things I'm sure we'll
talk about today is I take all of this I
I've been married to the same woman for
21 years we've been together for 23 to
me that we had to seduce each other in
the beginning and then at some point
that becomes a a deep long-term pair
bond which is a totally different game
and I really hope everybody can get good
at both games because that's really how
you end up having an amazing love life
that will ride with you through the ups
and downs but seduction is real people
need to stop pretending that it's not
from my perspective this is based on
Evolution that women and it's
interesting cuz I think you push back a
little bit on looking at the 30,000 fo
view of men and women I'll make a case
for it if you hate it tell me you hate
it but here's my case there's a quote I
forget who it's by forgive me whoever
said this this is a paraphrase any
individual woman is a mystery but taken
as a whole they're a mathematical
certainty it was technically said about
men but you get the idea and that makes
sense to me and so I you're right like
ultimately I had to figure out my wife I
didn't just have to figure out women as
a general thing I had to figure out my
wife but every time I think of my wife
as thinking like me I can't predict her
behavior the second I lump her in the
mathematical certainty of women are like
this then I'm way closer to being able
to predict her behaviors and so I think
it's very important to understand the
distinction between how men think and
how women think what we fantasize about
how we approach sex what we think of as
seductive but you're not going to get
get that from a book so you can read all
of the facts about this is how women
think etc etc the best way to do that is
by observing them so if you pay
attention to the person that you're
trying to S if you pay if you start
paying attention to women as young an
ear at the earliest possible age you
will see these qualities in them you
will see the fact that they are
interested more in stories that they
want that they don't want to be feel
like it's just about sex and you're in a
hurry to get them to that point these
aren't great Mysteries that you need to
read from a book it's pretty clear if
you pay attention right so I just want
to get men out of the M because we are
so goddamn analytical it's such a
problem that reading a book reading a
text having algorithms is the only way
we can think get the [ __ ] out of there
and pay attention to the person develop
your your mirror neurons develop your
observational skills develop the human
part of you that observes that feels
what the other person is feeling if you
depend so much on things that you've
learned from The Art of Seduction or
from a book it's going to make you a bad
Seducer but to the degree that you can
click into those human qualities that we
all possess where you sense the
emotional tone of the other person you
sense what they're vulnerable
vulnerabilities you sense what they're
missing in life yes maybe 60% of women
are missing a similar thing that there
are patterns to and maybe reading about
it can kind of click that into you okay
fine I'm not going to say that that's
all bad but the main thing you want is
to be getting out of your head and into
your emotions and into observing and
into feeling what the other person is
feeling and not being so head oriented
not being so analytical you know that I
think is the main problem that a lot of
men face it's really interesting my
experience was I needed to understand it
analytically because I didn't have the
intuition for it and it may be that I
just just didn't look I don't believe
people are born with intuition I think
that it develops over time so for
whatever weird reason the intuition I
developed was that if I wrote poetry and
showed up with flowers on the first date
which I actually did multiple times uh
that that would get me somewhere and it
did not get me anywhere I was actually
once this is where you ask any kids
listening in the car to you turn the
radio down whatever uh but this is a
true story I was in bed with a woman we
were getting naked we were rounding
third base and I managed to mess that up
because I displayed what I will call uh
at a moment where I should have been
confident and uh masculine you might
hate that word but um I displayed what I
will now God I don't even like saying
this out loud but it's true uh I
displayed a more feminine trait and was
like let's not go any farther unless
this means something which isn't what I
was feeling those exact words which
isn't what I was feeling
it was what I thought she wanted to hear
and it was not and it put the breaks on
the whole situation well it's very easy
to explain why that would happen because
that makes her think that oh maybe he's
not so into it maybe I'm not that
attractive women secretly want to feel
that you desire them that you're that
she is so attractive that you're going
to lose control and you didn't lose
control in that moment and you blew it
you [ __ ] it uph so it's very obvious
why that didn't work yeah obvious to you
now where were you back then Robert
Green uh because I still want to punch
myself in the mouth for that entire
evening so yeah lesson learned we've all
made mistakes like that yeah I'm going
to guess that that one's pretty bad uh
so what I had to really begin to
understand was what women actually were
going to respond to and not the terrible
assumptions that I had built up in my
mind yeah and what I began to realize is
that um there are things that women want
that don't they are not the same as what
I want and so when I started realizing
okay making that person my like what you
just said you're losing control making
and that's where I think you get like
the billionaire archetype of okay this
is somebody that has everything that is
normally this you actually talk about
this in your book you say normally men
get completely lost in what I think you
refer to as masculine Pursuits and so I
read that to me Hyper pursuit in
business being myopically focused on
something working yourself to death
which certainly resonates with the life
my wife is living right now where I I
work an obscene amount now if you ask my
wife what does she want she'll say
quality time which is another way of
saying I want this person who's made a
ton of money who's at the top of the
business Heap I want him to stop all of
that because I'm so irresistible that
he's only going to pay attention to me
and the way that makes her feel when I'm
just completely focused on her I'm not
touching ing my phone I'm not my mind
isn't wandering I am locked in on her
I'm making her feel physically
attractive I'm making her feel the truth
which is she is my mental equal like all
of that that she's a woman I have to
contend with that she's captured my
imagination that she has taken this wild
stallion as evidenced in and I don't
mean stallion Studley I just mean this
unbroken cult that is you know off-
running in the world of business she's
gotten a saddle on me slowed me down got
me to pay attention to her I mean this
is the Beauty and the Beast mythology
where she is so special that she has
been able to capture the attention of
the person who's never had their
attention captured before now I've never
thought about this before I've only ever
told my wife uh that I love you I've
never told that to another woman because
I was never in love before so for my
wife it really was the um what in
literary circles they call in erotic
literary circles they call the magic
hoo-ha so for my wife she was the only
one that was able to break me out of
that she's the only person that's ever
gotten me to slow down in my ambition to
pay attention to her and once I could
see it from not just my wife's
perspective but the general that's what
women are looking for perspective and I
was like oh wow like I really get now
why she wants my attention that that
isn't something I should be frustrated
by that yeah this is even now 23 years
in it's a seductive tool that I can play
which is you've completely captured my
attention like if I see my wife and
she's looking good I'm going to stop
whatever I'm doing and tell her and make
sure she knows and feels it viscerally
and all of that required me to
understand just the psychology of the
whole
situation I have no problem with that is
it something that I seem to have
disagreed with no not at all that's just
me um appealing to the nice guys out
there of I get you either may it may be
insecurity which mine was certainly
driven by that or you may think it's a
winning strategy I get that but it isn't
well one thing that I think is very
seductive that I can point out here and
it has a little bit to do with what
you're saying is what I call
generosity generosity is is a very
powerful seductive quality it doesn't
mean money as as you might necessarily
assume it can mean money
but it means that you're generous with
your attention you're generous with with
what you're giving to the other person
right so you know the main thing for a
man who's we tend to be very linear
focused mono focused on this one thing
and there's an evolutionary reason for
that for tens of thousands of years
hunting we had to just focus on one
thing women were focusing on many
different things at the same time you
know they're they're they could
multitask we can't um so getting out of
that mono rail that you're in with your
attention and being able to give to the
other person and give them attention and
in the initial phases shower them with
the attention that they're not getting
from other people although you can go a
little too far with that so you
sometimes you have to step back and kind
of be absent for a little bit so they
they don't feel like it's you're not
like a stalk you're not like it doesn't
come from an insecure place you're in
control of it but the sense of being
generous with your personality with the
time with the attention you get is
incredibly incredibly seductive the
sense that you're not generous and
stingy with money you like take them to
a cheap restaurant you ask them to pay
you're kind of you know you that's a
sign that you're not generous in general
so uh maybe that's part of the the
billionaire appeal where you assume that
that person's going to be very generous
at least with their money so the sense
of being closed inside yourself and
stingy and not wanting to give to the
other person give of your time your
attention your money all these other
things that is deeply deeply
anti-education in a negative way by um
changing gender
Norms I don't know if I want to get into
that
that Hornet's Nest but um you know in
seduction I I I make it clear and I made
it clear in my human nature book that
we're a mix of qualities that nobody is
completely masculine and no woman is
completely feminine men have feminine
qualities women have masculine qualities
some men have more feminine qualities
than masculine some women V we're a mix
it's a chemical thing and there's no way
to predict that right and it's always
been that way but but um there's ways
that kind of element of androgyny for
instance can be very very seductive and
very powerful if you know how to use it
right so I'm not going to say that um
that's overly complicating things in
fact the sense of kind of crossing
boundaries with gender is actually a
sign of some of the periods in history
where thing where things were the most
open to seduction so for centuries women
could not seduce men and I you I can I
can delineate that period I mean going
through all throughout ancient history
and I talk about it in my new book
because to be interested in a
woman so much that you wanted to give
them attention and time meant that you
were feminine right and the men were
masculine they were warriors etc etc
they weren't interested in the inner
worlds of women women were there to
clean the house and and to make babies
essentially so seduction was not
something that really existed in the
ancient world except with some
exceptions like Cleopatra Etc so the
idea that you're interested in a woman
and in her world is already admitting
there's a feminine element within you
and so I look at moments in history and
I just wrote about this like in the
Middle Ages where our whole notion of
Love Came From at least the Western
Ocean or you look in the 18th century
the grand EP of of Seduction with
Casanova and all those characters you
look at the 1920s in America and in
Europe a period of incredible Sexual
Energy freedom and seduction these were
periods where there was a lot of
androgyny going on so I don't
necessarily think that that's something
that's going to limit the the seductive
qualities and the energy that's in the
atmosphere I think what's hindering us
is not the gender Norms it's more our
kind of defensiveness our closed Spirit
our desire to to be completely in
control of of our circumstances by by
withdrawing into our egos and being
afraid of of being hurt being afraid of
being wrong being afraid of of not being
strong etc etc I think that has more a
more inhibiting Factor on on seduction
in the world why do you think young
people are having so much less sex right
now well for men a lot of it has to do
with
porn I mean I'm not sure I'm not a
scientist I'm not a sociologist but that
would be my
estimation where first of all they're
having a lot of sex virtually and second
of all their idea of sex and what is
pleasurable what a what a woman should
be like comes from those ideals in
pornography and the look etc etc and so
it's not as much of a need for them Etc
to to kind of physically we become much
more virtual in how we get pleasure in
life um um also I think there's an
element of fear as I said I mean young
people have grown up in these in these
periods of massive uh economic
instability they've had to deal with the
08 collapse with the pandemic and
everything that's happened there so
they've had to deal with circumstances
that are very powerful and that are
going to make them anxious as well as
all of the helicopter parenting that
many of them had to to live through so
they're filled with much more anxiety
right now than I think in my generation
and that anxiety makes you want to kind
of retreat into your own inner world and
having
sex at least for a man and you can
probably relate to this it's a feeling
of you're almost like it's almost like
too much you're almost like weak
afterwards you're almost like afraid of
it you're afraid of the power that a
woman has over you right you obviously
get over that very quickly and you deal
with it but there's an element of fear
involved and especially when you're an
adolescent especially when it's when
you're younger and so I think the levels
of fear and anxiety that young people
are having in the world and rightly so I
don't condemn that for that is probably
why there's less physical ex sexual and
psychological interactions with members
of the opposite
sex yeah I think it's inevitably going
to be a very complicated issue and like
you I'm not a scientist but um I am
always willing to talk about things that
I know nothing about just to walk people
through how I think about a problem uh
so looking at it I think that a big part
of the problem is what you're talking
about with insecurity I think that the
way the world is set up right now
whether it's um pornography whether it
is uh a society that's really spent the
last several decades telling men that
they their masculine impulses are bad
and for better or worse I think that
sexuality male sexuality is tied up in
power and I think sex itself is uh
dances around power dynamics it's one of
the the main things in female erotica as
power dynamics and it man you want to
dive into a hornets nest like power
dynamics people get real weird about
this subject um but with all of that if
men are either because the economy is
weird and they're not able to get on the
property ladder and they've got you know
$180,000 in debt and they don't feel
like they're going anywhere and they're
lost in a sense of hopelessness they
have easy access to pornography um
they're just not feeling powerful and if
they're not feeling powerful then
they're going to uh struggle to feel
confident in the bedroom and I mean just
to really put it all out there um I
think a guy has has to feel confident
and Powerful not in a weird like I'm a
dominant way but strong and confident
rooted in his body and feeling good
about himself to get and maintain an
erection like you're not going to see a
lot of people who are insecure scared uh
sporting erections those are sort of
flip sides the same take a lot of Viagra
or something I guess but do you really
think like I would be surprised it just
that puts you in and also just bodies
right so diet nutrition hour so horrible
that I have to imagine a lot of people
are just physically not in a place where
they're feeling good about themselves uh
you wrap that all up and you get to what
I'm sure is the tip of a very large
iceberg that I've grossly oversimplified
but no no no I think you you touched
upon a point that's very valid I and I
didn't touch upon I think it's very true
is that um it's it's not a good time to
be a man right now it's very confusing
you know our role models are very mixed
up we don't really know what is a
positive virtue for a man we think that
we look at somebody like Andrew Tate as
possibly an icon a lot at least a lot of
young people do which I don't at all I
think that's I think it's really gross
and vulgar and full of all kinds of
insecurities a man like that a kind of
an icon sort of a sense of strength from
either a political figure a leader or an
actor or anything that used to be in the
culture we don't really have that and
men are are seen as something kind of
ugly in our culture you know it seems
like ugly energy that comes from men and
I every time I read the newspaper I I
see that kind of that kind of slant on
things that anytime a man is sort of
revealing a kind of atavistic trait of
being kind of dominant and strong ew
ugly oh he's you know he's awful he's
he's primitive he's not you know etc etc
and so it's very very confusing and I
remember being a young man myself
growing up I'm such an old person that I
can remember like the late 60s you know
and it was kind of confusing then and I
was struggling and I had a good role
model with my father he was very he was
very gentle but he was also quite
masculine Etc and I remember being
confused about it and kind of straining
and trying to find a proper masculine
role model and it was a struggle and and
I found it sometimes with my teachers my
professors in school and other people I
later grab itated to but the sense of
this is what it means to be a man these
are good qualities the quality of being
a leader of being strong of even being
kind of dominant and being able to
dominate a group and dominate a room or
to be so powerful that your voice can
carry these are all positive traits we
wouldn't be here right now Tom Talking
you and I if men didn't have those
traits right if they didn't have the
courage to face you know enemies with
Spears etc etc these are all positive
qualities just have to be channeled in
in socially productive ways which is
what an Andrew Tate doesn't do but if
only we could craft a Frankenstein
monster of what an ideal male figure
would be like it would be very very
helpful for young men and I don't mean
to craft it in a fantasy way it would be
great if there was really people like
that you know in this world today so you
know um to me a masculine quality is a
kind of inner strength a it doesn't need
to yell it doesn't need to scream it
doesn't need to bully people it's just
so strong that people are attracted to
it and it emanates it radiates itself
and people can feel it you know so you
don't have to yell at someone I remember
when I was at uh on the board of
directors of American Apparel and the
CEO um who we ended up firing he was a
good friend of mine he's brilliant in
some things but he could he was yelling
at people left right and Center he
thought that's what power is that's what
being masculine is and I thought it just
showed incredible
weakness the ability to set an example
to tell people this is how you should be
by how I'm behaving Etc taking
responsibility these are that's a
masculine quality not blaming other
people we need to redefine what it means
to be masculine and what are the
positive aspects of it I think is very
very critical for our culture talk to me
about aggression I think men should have
a gear that is aggressive should be a
gear I don't think they should live
there what do you think completely I
mean and you know my wife can attest
this I'm an insanely competitive person
right to the degree that it's almost
maybe unhealthy right so like I'm
bicycling up a hill and people pass me
God damn it you can't pass me I'm going
to pass you even though right now I
can't because I'm physically weaker I'm
still trying to do that on my stupid
recumbent bike Etc I'm very very very
competitive and that competitive energy
I think a lot of men have it's what
directs us towards Sports you know and
I'm I'm a Sports Addict
Etc compet being competitive is aligned
with being
ambitious and getting back to seduction
a man who seems ambitious is very very
seductive and having no ambition is very
unmasculine and very anti- seductive but
we have we see the word ambition as
being kind of ugly as if it's like
egocentric as if it's selfish but damn
it this world was built by people who
are ambitious theyve created it right
you wouldn't be here you wouldn't have
the internet you wouldn't have all your
little tools that you whine and complain
about if it weren't for people who were
incredibly ambitious ambitious people
have created the world so men have
aggressive energy it's the testosterone
flowing through us right you can't you
can't repress it you can't get rid of it
it's there there and how you Channel it
is the key you can become very
self-destructive you can Channel it
towards violence you can Channel it
towards pushing people
around or you could say I'm going to I'm
going to channel towards being
competitive to towards being the best
person at what I'm doing we talked I
think last time I was here when I was
talking about the human nature we talked
about Kobe Bryant a man who had a dark
side he is so competitive to a degree
would could have killed him it was just
awful and he ack knowledges it he
channeled it into the basketball court
and it made him Fant made him the one of
the greatest players ever it's how you
take that energy that testosterone that
aggression and what you do with it
that's the critical factor and that's
where I think a lot of men are confused
about it you can reboot your life your
health even your career anything you
want all you need is discipline I can
teach you the tactics that I learned
while growing a billion- Dollar business
that will allow you to see your goals
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today I think that um if you want to do
something extraordinary with your life
you are going to have to find that
aggressive gear you certainly in the
business world if you want to do
something uh you are going to have to be
able to create momentum and creating
momentum requires you to overcome the
universe's tendency towards chaos
everything is working against you um it
just it's I mean it's the second law
thermodynamics that everything moves
towards chaos and when you think about
that chaos being your competitors trying
to outperform you uh one thing if you're
in the game long enough that um
Generations change wildly and so what
worked 10 years ago just psychologically
is not the right move anymore and you
have to constantly reposition yourself
and so things are always fighting
against you and the only way to overcome
that I have found is to have a sort of
manal aggressive quality and you know
look I'm well aware that Elon Musk is a
very controversial figure but he's
somebody that understands how to channel
the aggression to get things done and if
you read the biography written about him
uh from Walter isix and that's one thing
that comes through real clear is he's
got that gear where he is aggressive
he's biting he's going to uh fire people
torture room like whatever it takes to
get on the other side of that and
there's an awesome quote by George
Bernard Shaw which is the reasonable man
conforms to the
world the Unreasonable Man insists on
trying to get the world to conform to
him therefore all progress depends on
the unreasonable man and that quote is
exactly what I mean when I say people
need to be aggressive like you're going
to have to be unreasonable and you're
going to have to find a gear in you to
actually see it come true because you
can't just like you were talking about
with the CEO of American Apparel you
can't just run around yelling that's not
what it is yelling is a tool and I would
keep it in Your Arsenal because there
are times but just the ferocity in fact
ferocity that that is the word that
sings most clearly to my heart men have
to be able to channel that ferocity and
it has to be under control so in life
you have to be a strategist you can't
just you you can't just depend on energy
and domineering and and aggression it
has to be something that you can control
and that to channel it means that you
have the willpower and the ability the
self-awareness to know I need to channel
it I need to put it into into this
direction or that direction sometimes in
life I need to step back and do a kind
of Chinese strategy of of no of uh I
forget what the word is but doing taking
no action at all sometimes you have to
be like Bruce Lee and be formless Etc
other times you need to have a form and
be aggressive the great leaders and a
great masculine quality and it comes
from Warfare is being strategic and is
knowing what it fits the
circumstance so aggression has to be not
just physical it has to be intellectual
it has to be mental and you have to and
part of that mental part process is I
have all of this energy it's very
powerful I'm aware of it how can I use
it to best effect you have to have some
self-d
Detachment some of these leaders like
the man at American perel and even Milan
musk to some degree are not self-aware
and it can be there a killy's heel they
can go too far they don't know when to
step back they don't know how to put
that that Iron Fist inside of a velvet
glove and be a little you know
strategically not in a weak sense so to
me a if I were to create that masculine
virtue that Frankenstein that I alluded
to it's a man who also knows how to be
incredibly strategic about life and
knows when to hit and when to pull back
and when to be ferocious and when to be
gentle and sweet Etc and in control in
control of your energy that is the key
you have it so I compare it to a person
who's riding a horse I've I've done this
metaphor I even know on this show before
right you are like a rider on top of a
horse the horse is your energy is that
aggressive masculine energy and horses
are incredibly powerful animals right um
they have they can they can they can go
faster than any almost any other animal
they're incredibly strong and
powerful you are the rider if you let
the horse just go anywhere it's going to
run off a cliff it's going to throw you
it's going to kill you but if you hold
the rins too tight and you try and
control everything that it does the
horse senses that you're weak and it
won't follow you and it just will sit
down become stubborn like a mule but if
you know how to hold it kind of and I
used to ride horses if you know how to
hold it kind of firmly but not too
firmly you know how to keep your thigh
so it sense the horse knows that you're
they're directing it then you have the
power to guide it and that is what I'm
talking about you have this energy this
strength this ambition this competitive
desire if you don't control it it's
going to run you into all kinds of
problems and Makia my mentor talks about
this a lot what brings a man to power is
often that that ID that incredible
undirected energy is so strong it makes
makes him a prince it brings makes him a
CEO but then once he arrives there and
circumstances change and now he has to
be a manager or now the world has
changed he can't shift he only knows
that one gear and it ends up destroying
him makaveli's ideal in mind as well is
a man man who understands how to shift
with the times knows that what I was my
aggressive energy isn't going to always
work and I need to be able to take it a
step back etc etc and that was what was
wrong with the American Apparel CEO he
only had one gear he only had to go One
Direction he didn't know how to kind of
deviate and how to move with the times
it wasn't 2006 anymore where everything
was about sexy clothes and shorts in the
80s things were moving and changing
adapt with the times being fluid and
formless and having that water quality
that Bruce Lee talks about I mean
martial artists have an have probably
the best way of channeling that that
aggressive energy to me that's almost
perhaps in some ways the perfect
metaphor here for it because you can't
be a master in martial arts if you
haven't mastered yourself and your brain
and your energy you have to master
yourself and then you can you can kick
butt in any kind of encounter or battle
that's one thing I like about the Bruce
Lee quote his whole quote is well the
ending part of the quote that people
often quote they truncate it and they
just say be like water but what he says
was be like water it can flow or crash
and so the idea that yeah there are
times where you need to be gentle and
then there are times where you really do
need to be
forceful and we have there's a cultural
message that says being forceful like
you said is Icky it's gross um that the
natural tendencies that men have are bad
and they need to back off um I yeah
Public Service Announcement don't do
that now don't be a [ __ ] don't lose
control as you're saying you really do
have to know when to yield what weapon
and I'll quote something that um Jordan
Peterson said I think this is really
smart even if it doesn't end up being
the literal translation but he said uh
the Bible says the meek shall inherit
the earth and he could never wrap his
head around that as neither could die if
you interpret Meek as weak it's like
that's just not how life works the weak
will suffer as they must and the strong
will do what they will
and he said there's an ancient Greek
translation of the word meek that
basically means the person who is good
with a sword but keeps it sheathed so uh
and this is something that uh an MMA
trainer FAS zahabi who used to train
George St Pierre may still train him um
he said to me was you know I I wanted to
get good at fighting so that if I ever
back down from a fight it was my choice
and I wasn't doing it out of cowardice
yeah yeah and I was like whoa so yeah if
you are good with a sword can defend
yourself have that aggressive killer
inside but keep it tamed keep it under
wraps uh then you've really got a shot
but even just looking at I don't know if
you watched any of the footage and I am
certainly not encouraging people to but
I saw some of the footage of um October
7th and bro like just realizing death is
violent death is a tearing of the body
like it there there is just a moment
where you may encounter violence of such
high consequence such Terror such
violent ending of life that if you don't
have a gear of like I'm here to [ __ ]
[ __ ] up like you you are in real trouble
they're there're unfortunately we are
not at the end of history and it is
entirely possible that someone bad comes
for you and you better be ready yeah I
mean um gez I mean I couldn't look at
that footage and you know being Jewish
and all that it's just it's I can't even
go there I get it um but um more likely
I go back to the 48 Laws of Power in
that most of us aren't going to face
that kind of flight 91 type scenario
where we're in in confronting although
in America now with all the guns you
never know but most of us aren't going
to confront that what you're going to
confront is that ugly energy that you
find in the office that you find in
business where you find people who are
duplicitous who have bad intentions who
want to [ __ ] you over in some way or
other right but they're smiling they
seem to be on your side they've got
money they've got funding they seem like
a legitimate person and then you find
out that they're that they're not what
you thought they were and so if you ENT
enter life being naive thinking that PE
appearances are what people are that
people aren't necessarily so tricky if
you're not willing to look behind and
see what's behind the mask then you are
in for a life of pain and so the
violence that we're facing in the world
today is not the violence that ancient
Romans faced on the battlefield you know
with KN with swords going directly into
your chest I mean come come on who could
face that now but we Face veiled
violence we Face people who don't who
don't want to hurt you physically but
they're going to hurt you mentally
they're going to play with you right and
so you have to be strong strategic you
have to understand the game you have to
understand the laws of power you have to
understand that there are some people
who have bad intentions and I I say the
percentage of them are like 5% they're
certainly not 95% most people are decent
are Meek in in a way you know they're
not they're not Lions they're more like
sheep but those 5% can ruin your life
and they're everywhere around you and
you know have you have to be strong you
have to how to defend yourself so you're
not going to maybe face the terror but
you're going to face a kind of
psychological Terror that if you enter
the world and you're 22 and you're not
prepared for it and you think everything
is just sweet and nice because that's
how you've been brought up you know
everyone is if they appear appear to be
virtuous they are virtuous which is
[ __ ] you're going to you're going to
be in a lot of pain and you're going to
suffer for it and you're going to be
fired and you're going to end up being
35 and you don't know where your career
is going you don't realize you took a
wrong turn because you were naive so to
me it's more the psychological Terror
and dangers that we face more than the
physical ones it's interesting to me it
is a similar part of the psyche you said
that who could deal with that now the
getting stabbed in the chest
I very grateful that at least here
that's so rare that we effectively just
don't think about it but I do worry that
that is a void that will be exploited by
people that are more than prepared to
come and actually stab you in the chest
how do you think about that do you do
you ever allow yourself to think on the
darker side of things and say men really
need to get back to that kind of core
strength or um are you glad that that
has quote unquote
passed well um you know it's easy to say
because I don't have to go on a
battlefield with the Roman Legions and
face that even though I'm wearing some
degree of armor you know so I can write
about Napoleon and I can fantasize about
all the drama because Napoleon is a
figure that I think is extremely
exciting and interesting from a
strategic point of view and bullets are
flying and people are dying and horses
are there and it's blood everywhere it's
chaos and smoke you know it's easy for
me to say sitting in my comfortable
chair you know to ride about that it's
one thing what would I be like and I
often ask
myself would I be one of those cowards
or would I be someone who would face the
bullets and I I'm under the
illusion that I would be relatively
Brave on a battlefield like that because
in life when I have faced people who are
dicks who are trying to hurt me I've
been very I know how to push back I've
been strong it's not the same as a
battlefield but I feel like I have a
degree of fearlessness in that I don't
care what happens in fact I'm willing to
die you know I don't care so you know
when I was writing the laws of human
nature I had a feeling like I'm killing
myself writing this book because it's
too much I can't make it and in the end
I nearly did I practi ially killed
myself I came this close to dying right
but I did I didn't pull back I didn't
follow my doctor's advice didn't follow
my wife's advice because damn it I have
to do this and I don't care so I have an
element of I don't care and I think
that's an important part of of courage
in life where you're willing to you
don't really care about the con
consequences you have to do something
and it's important that you do it and if
it hurts you physically so be it that's
that's the nature nature of it
but I I can romanticize that Battlefield
aspect of it and I can think that really
you know facing that physically really
would strengthen you it would be an
insane
experience but I think of it like the
the toughness the mental aspect is to me
the most important part of it you know
so I'm very interested in sports kind of
takes up a lot of my free time as
watching sports because it's pure
strategy and I'm just love strategy and
I love watching football and I love the
violence of it and I love getting my
neon miror neurons H and oh wow I just
got tackled and I love the Strategic
part of it you know and these men are
facing the almost the equivalent of what
a Roman legion is because one wrong hit
and there they could be paralyzed for
life you know
but what I love about sports is it's the
mental aspect that makes you a great
athlete right yes there's so many people
in this country who have incredible
physical talents but it's the mental
part that separates you the ability to
learn the ability to deal with failure
to develop kind of toughness to know how
to channel those competitive instincts
to know how to always bring full energy
and focus to each moment right and
so I may not be able to identify with
the legionnaires of Caesar but I
identify with football players and the
fact that they have to be very attuned
to the moment in the flow thinking like
a quarterback I mean if you put yourself
in the shoes of Patrick Mahomes in that
moment and the amazing things he does
because he's absolutely like a wizard on
the football field he's thinking but
he's thinking so quickly these are the
kind of qualities that I think are are
amazing and I and I really admire and I
really Envy I wish I I had that it's
interesting a lot of what we just talked
about goes back to what you said about
ambition is
seductive why why do women find ambition
seductive I think you'd have to go to
evolutionary reasons I think it goes
back to something biological almost it
shows that a man can
provide he's he's going to be someone
who's going to make a good living he can
provide for me he can take care of me
you know um I don't know how much of
that is still alive in in human
psychology but I believe that is the
root of it that a man who doesn't have
ambition H you know I can't lean on him
for support phys materially and
psychologically but an ambitious man he
you know he may be uncontrollable he may
be a little bit dangerous but damn it
he's going to be able to to survive in a
very tough world and women know it's a
tough world and you know they need
sometimes they need that kind of
powerful figur as of support in their
life even though they're they're often
the Breadwinners now and they're they
still have that desire for a man that
shows that he can take care of himself
he can take care of his world he can
provide for them if they need it
Etc what's the difference between the
way that a man would seduce a woman and
the way that a woman would seduce a
man well it's it's it's very Elemental I
mean it's of course it depends on the
circumstances but as I outline in The
Art of Seduction women will use the
visual sense factors the senses that men
are so vulnerable to you know how they
dress how their body looks their perfume
the uh the sound of their voice I say in
The Art of Seduction that a woman's
voice is perhaps one of the greatest
Under undervalued tools that a woman
possesses men don't realize it they
don't think about it because they so
think that only are looking at like the
physical component but a woman's voice
is very very powerful and I relate it to
the voice of the mother in a kind of a
sing song equality and I've have known
women in my life who's go wow that woman
has an incredibly seductive voice it's
very powerful tool so men are drawn to
those sense cues and and and they're
very they're almost like you can't
control them and women have learned over
centuries how to appeal to that they
also
know that men have a desire to pursue to
hunt to to to go after something if
that's the kind of man all some men are
not like that and so they know how to
play the coet the coet was a feminine
invention there are now men who are
coets for sure
but the original CSH is a female quality
of I'm I I'm I make the man interested
and then I pull back he has to chase me
because they know men love to Chase and
if I show that I'm not interested in him
that excites his interest so those are
the ways that women will seduce a man a
man a man will seduce a woman by things
we've already talked
about the quintessential male Seducer is
The Rake doesn't seem like he'd be very
very uh attractive because he he he can
only have as many women as he can find
in his life right he's not willing to
settle down but when a rake is is
interested in a woman he's 100% attend
attuned to them he's in their world he's
listening to them for the one month or
two month that he's with that woman she
is his whole life right and not in a
scary sense but in a very interesting
poetic sense he knows how to give the
right kind of gifts he knows to take her
to the the right places he's very
attentive his energy is focused on her
and um and he knows how to lead so
leading is not just forcing someone it's
like I'm leading you into the story that
I'm creating I'm taking you to certain
places even literally to certain places
but I'm leading you down a path and
you're excited by the adventure and the
Mystery of where is this is going and so
you know those are those are two
different kind of stereotypical
strategies that men versus women will
will utilize I want to go back to what
you were saying about the female voice
so this twice now at least twice where
you've made reference to they do
something that is modeled after the mom
or like the mom obviously there's the
old phrase that men marry their mothers
and women marry their fathers I've never
really liked that um it I've always
thought it might be closer to something
something like men marry women who make
them feel the way their mom made them
feel see that uh but what is it about
the mom why would that be a positive
seductive trigger well it's not
necessarily
positive um but it's
uncontrollable
so a lot of our erotic desires what
we're interested in are things we cannot
controled they go back to our first
years in life right and we're not even
aware of it we're not even con ious of
it and so the mother figure for a boy
for the for a male is extremely powerful
it's extremely great because if you
think about it unlike a girl our first
years of our lives are completely
involved dependent on a woman the
opposite sex right and so that has an
extremely powerful impact on our
personality and we internalize Her Image
in our head and that turns into what we
what Yong called the anim and animos you
might believe that it's just nonsense
but I happen to believe it's very very
real it's very amazing Theory okay so
that female figure from your mother gets
under your skin and sometimes mothers
are not good necessarily good figures
maybe they're narcissists maybe they
were so much involved in their own looks
that they didn't pay you much attention
so it's not always that they're a POS
it's a positive thing but because that
got under your skin in a way you're not
even aware of you're attracted to women
who have that narcissistic quality
because you want to repay a lot of that
drama that occurred in those earliest
years um I know people are going go
though that's such [ __ ] I can't
you're not even aware that's happening
I'm I'm sorry to say because it's
occurring in your unconscious but if you
look at it if you see the patterns in
your love life and you see the kinds of
women that you are attracted to you will
will inevitably see an element of what
I'm talking about right sometimes it's a
woman that has a physical resemblance to
your mother and that's an extremely
common pattern believe me but sometimes
it's more a psychological quality the
fact that she
was very solicitous with attention and
showered you and made you feel special
man I've never gotten that feeling again
since I had with my mother you're not
aware of that but you're looking for the
for the woman that will give you that
feeling again or as I said your mother
was a narcissist she was just completely
involved in herself and her clothes and
her look I want to find a woman who's
like that because maybe this time I can
get that woman to really love me and
give me the attention I never really got
from my mother so these early early
years have such a powerful impact on you
you're not even aware and the flips side
is the same for women with the father
figure and um I think a lot of women
will admit that the Father Figure had a
very very powerful impact on what
they're attracted to they're usually
more honest about it because
men um find the the whole issue of the
mother kind of creepy the sense of being
so dependent on a woman being so weak
that I'm after my mother oh it's like a
Freudian edle thing oh my God that's
disgusting I don't want to even admit it
but it's very true it's very
real yeah that one's uh that one's
tricky all right you I didn't convince
you um no that one I'm really just
trying to sponge I've never quite
understood it so you've given me another
brick of information to lay down in my
desperate attempts to map how this stuff
all really works okay um like you and
you said this at the beginning really
the thing you want to get to is what
really works like where does a rubber
meet the road on all this stuff not not
in fantasy land but like for real for
real um somebody's going on a date they
met them online never met them before
there's like a screen check process you
guys have had to do this sort of dumb
some of the guys here will show me the
way that they have to flirt on the apps
in order to get to the first date so how
one how do you set it up in the
flirtation to get to the date and then
how do we be maximally seductive on that
date well you know I didn't grow up in
the era of Tinder so it's um you know
it's I don't really know I've never had
to deal with it right do you think it's
going to be a different set of rules I
have a feeling it's going to be the same
set of rules but it's a different
playing field I will give you that but
well the the main thing is that I would
say in in a in a kind of macro sense of
is pay attention to the
nonverbals so seduction is a language
that does not involve words it involves
what is not spoken it involves your body
body language your eyes your smile your
face how you compose your face how you
walk how you present
yourself the um the places you take the
woman to reveal who you are if you take
her to a a pizza and beer joint that
probably that says something as opposed
to an elegant restaurant how you dress
is part of that language are you just
wearing your shorts and t-shirt or do
you present yourself in a nice maybe
those shorts and t-shirt for some would
work but for a lot of women it shows you
don't really
care so pay attention to all the
non-verbal things to the little signs
that the woman is very very attentive to
and be able to control that to some
degree so you want to present yourself
as they say the most anti- seductive
quality is
insecurity so it's hard to fake the
nonverbal secure cues that are in the
world
and a lot of that centers around the
eyes and the face and the mouth and how
you smile Etc and there are weak ways of
looking kind of and there are aggressive
ways and confident ways that are
directed Through The Eyes but if you
don't feel it it's very hard to fake it
so you have to put yourself in a
mindset a kind of an as if strategy as
William James said where you feel
confident where you feel strong you talk
yourself into that mood etc etc and you
let the nonverbals kind of communicate
themselves so you're
strong you're taking them to a place but
you're also attentive sensitive you're a
you're willing to reveal that slight
feminine streak in you but you're in
control you know what you're going to do
you know the exactly where you want to
take them and you of course you're
you're going to let see how things play
out you don't have everything plan that
would be very anti- seductive as well
but you have a sense of this is who I am
and this is how I'm going to present
myself the
flirtation is not in the words that you
say but it's in the looks that you give
in the energy that you that you radiate
right and the strength that you show and
and the fact that you're looking them in
the eye but not in a scary way kind of
thing and then mirroring Behavior is is
extremely uh a sign of of the other
person is follow falling under your
spell so you you smile in a certain way
and you see if she responds in the same
way right and you kind of learn how to
kind of go with her energy in the moment
as well
but one thing you have to be careful of
is you have to use who you are so what's
flirtatious for one guy is going to work
for the other guy you know so if you
happen to be good with
words you know I I have to admit I'm I'm
weak at a lot of things you know I
wasn't that quarterback in high school
Etc and all that stuff but I had a way
with words you know and I had a way of
kind of
weaving a world with the words that I
said with the metaphors with the things
that I said and so I would kind of use
my flirtatious style was to kind of
envelop them in these kind of images
that I would create and that worked for
me sometimes it didn't work because some
women weren't interested in that they
wanted the quarterback but for a lot of
women that that was my style what is
your style I don't know what it is but
it has to fit who you are I think that
is very good advice um the thing that I
would put out there is there the big
click for me was when I realized that I
needed to have absolutely no fear of
loss and so going into uh a situation
you met them online you guys have had
some FLIR flirtatious exchanges they one
of the things that's really
anti-education is Wilt at that moment
you you you cut it off and you go oh
this isn't going to work man they are so
stupid you are such a bad Seducer women
are testing you often and by they're
showing you that maybe they're not
interested they might actually be
interested but they want to see are you
willing to pursue them are you willing
to deal with some obstacles in the way
you know are you willing to like you
know move past their resistance not
physically forcing them but if they
don't seem so receptive to you on that
first date that doesn't mean you have to
give up it just means give it a second
date and and show that you're you're
still interested in them is a very
powerful message it means I can deal
with maybe your kind of somewhat pissy
side or your sort of negative side or
your kind of pickiness you know I'm
still there I'm still interested okay
that shows that you're willing to jump
over this one hoop that I've set for you
so just immediately wilting is a bad
sign no agreed my advice would be if
somebody is in that situation somebody's
displaying something they don't like I
mean look I'm not going to say it at
everything that comes up but for the
most part I would try to be playful with
that yeah and if you if you can really
stay centered if you can be somewhat
unflappable and what I always uh have
said about the way that I was with Lisa
was I was aggressively myself and so I
wasn't afraid of losing her now I still
strategic about the way that I packaged
myself like I said this is a game of
marketing you are going to be who you
really are but you need to bundle that
in a way that's going to communicate who
you are well and if I know that one of
the things that people are going to be
most attracted to is somebody that is
confident cool then I'm I need to be
confident in who I am and also if you
really want to get people's
attention be counterintuitive be be
interesting like say things that they
couldn't have predicted that are real
they're true to who you are but if you
can find those things where it's like oh
wow I never thought about that that's
you're coming at something from an
oblique angle then it's like okay you're
not exchangeable I can't this isn't just
I'm trying on somebody that looks
different but is exactly the same as
everybody else it's like you're you one
have the confidence to say something
you're like I don't know how this is
going to land but it is true and
therefore I'm going to say it and the
way that I see dating is is you're
throwing the bat symbol up in the sky
you're not trying to win the person over
I mean you're trying to seduce don't get
me wrong there's there's an agenda there
but you want to make sure you're
seducing the right person and so in the
beginning of this I'm just going to be
this is who I am packaged in a way that
is meant
to uh elicit a response from the right
person so I'm not going to make it hard
to be interested in who I am and all of
that but I'm going to be myself I'm
going to say things that are expected
this was the same Discovery I had with
interviewing was uh in the early early
days I did it was like my maybe fifth
interview and I did the whole interview
and at the end of the interview I said
uh hey do you mind if we start over I
want to film this again because I'm
either going to quit doing this because
I was bored out of my mind because I
wasn't asking the questions I really
wanted to ask I was asking the questions
I thought I was supposed to ask and now
I want to ask what I really care about
and he was a game and so we refilmed it
it and that was the beginning of me
actually having a career as an
interviewer was when I was like I don't
care if this is the question people want
me to ask I'm going to ask the question
I'm actually interested in and bringing
out that kind of intrigue especially if
you can focus it on them so if I'm
asking you questions maybe other people
haven't asked from an angle people
haven't asked it or I have a follow-up
question that is surprising and shows
I'm really paying attention I actually
care it'll get pretty interesting pretty
fast yeah I mean um a couple things that
I would add to that first of all as I
say in The Art of Seduction any kind of
moralizing judging quality is very anti-
seductive so you're very tolerant you're
very open you're not you're not there to
judge the other person and if they make
a comment you don't want to go touch
upon politics Etc but just the sense
that you're it's a non-judgmental
environment is is very St because we
live in a world that's so partisan but
the other thing is so when we talk about
interviews I've
done hundreds of these over the years
podcaster including yourself you're one
of my favorites thank you sir and I
could notice a difference between
interviewers the ones that come with a
preset agenda of questions not just an
opening question but a whole scent of
questions and they're not really paying
attention to you and your answers and
they're they're kind of in their heads
and they're thinking about their next
question Etc they make me uncomfortable
and I don't do as well but if the person
is interviewing me is in the moment
they're kind of responding they're alive
they're giving me you know body language
verbal accus their eyes and we're
interacting then I open up to them and
then then there's a nice flow it's a
similar thing between a man and a woman
you're in the moment I can't say that
enough you're in the moment you're not
in your head going does she like me am I
going to have sex with her tonight you
know do I find her that attractive
you're in the goddamn moment you're
alive you're attuned you're listening
and I can tell you um my wife has said
this and I've known it from other women
before I met her is I would listen very
deeply and then I would hear something
that kind of signaled to me a sign of
something that they were interested in
or something that said something about
who they are and then four hours later
or the next day I would bring it up
again wrapped in my own little way of
wrapping things up and they whoa you
don't have no idea how much that
impresses a woman because it says I was
paying attention I was listening to them
and I and I brought back what they said
later is very powerful so be in the
moment don't be thinking about your next
question your next step how you're going
to you know what you're going to be
doing next but be alive and be attentive
and be in the flow I love that Robert
where can people follow you they can
follow me everywhere uh I have my
website po sedu C
and.com I have uh in my Instagram at
Robert Green official I also have a
YouTube channel you can subscribe to
that well boys and girls it will be time
well spent so make sure you do go give a
follow and speaking of places that will
be well worth your time if you haven't
already be sure to subscribe and until
next time my friends be legendary take
care peace to learn more about these
complex topics check out this episode
with Jordan Peterson identity to me is
something that's practical your identity
is a uh it's like a dramatic role that
you play out in the
world
and