Kind: captions
Language: en
So for anybody that doesn't know you're
a former CIA legitimate spy which is
crazy and the reason I find that
interesting is because you would have to
be a master of psychology your own and
others and this also gets into where we
are in the world right now I've heard
you say that we are potentially already
in the beginnings of World War III which
hits a little too close to home in terms
of how I view what's going on but here's
a quote the core element of being able
to control a relationship is
understanding the Pink Matter truth of
feelings what all people feel becomes
their point of view on what reality is
so when you understand it and you learn
how to manipulate how people feel then
you can essentially direct them to feel
any way you want them to feel
woof I mean I sound like a sick bastard
sometimes man hearing my own words back
to me like what kind of evil person came
up with that idea I'll assume that we're
going to use these for good
both as a screenwriter and as an
entrepreneur the idea of being able to
take somebody's perspective to actually
think like they think
is really important so the that the idea
that you capture in that quote is what I
call frame of reference
now in my marriage the biggest arguments
that I have with my wife are always
where I'm I'll be saying to her I'm not
able to penetrate your frame of
reference and people feel a certain way
they see the world a certain way and if
you can't get inside that then you're in
trouble and so what I like about the
quote is basically what I'm taking from
that is if you can see their perspective
the the elements that Cobble it together
that make them feel the things that they
feel then you can steer that
relationship now again I'll assume we're
steering it for good for the purposes of
this conversation but I do really want
to understand more about that one how do
you take somebody's perspective how do
you build something where you can
reasonably I can be able to mind read
but you can reasonably understand where
they're coming from the first big thing
that you hit on uh and I'm actually
gonna I'm gonna tweak what you said
it's not about getting into people's
perspective most people don't have
perspective the average person has no
perspective they live in a world of
perception how they perceive the world
around them most individuals at least
that's what we learn at CIA individuals
live with a frame of reference around
themselves
they're the center of the movie they're
the star of the show they're the center
of the universe
that is an inherently human thing to do
because humans in our evolutionary
process and the Pink Matter that is our
brains we're always worried about
survival
we've never outgrown that the
technological development and the
technological evolution of the world has
happened exponentially faster than the
human evolvement the human evolution of
the world so while you and I are sitting
here in 2023 we our brains work in
essentially the same way as they worked
in 1823 but the world around us is
extremely different we don't need to
worry about Survival anymore now we're
supposed to be worrying about how to
thrive how to meet our objectives how to
meet our goals
if you think about it humans just 200
years ago humans had to worry about how
do I make it to the next day how do I
just survive they were always focused on
the here and now and how do I make it
work today so I can live again tomorrow
you and I don't worry about how to make
it through today most people are
thinking about
what am I gonna do this weekend what am
I going to do next week when is my
upcoming vacation we don't worry about
the Here and Now
but the brain is still wired to live
first and foremost in this survival
mindset the survival process so the Pink
Matter that exists in your brain and
mind and everybody around us is still
very much focused on the self as the
most important element and because of
that it views everything around its
everything around the environment and
around the individual through a lens of
perception
what I perceive is real to me
to hell with what you perceive what I
perceive is the truth my stepdad used to
lecture me about perception is reality
perception is reality Andrew perception
is reality and I disagreed with him from
the time I was 12 years old I was like
no dad reality
is reality if I perceive a car coming
down the road and it is in line to hit
me if I perceive that it's not going to
hit me doesn't make a difference right
reality is reality what CAA taught me
was a better way of explaining what
reality actually is and reality is that
98 of human beings are trapped in their
own perception so the two percent that
live in the real world that have
perspective they are able to manipulate
the perception of everybody else
okay so when you were in training did
you have to like are there
um like five bullet points or whatever
that you begin to go okay people are
they're in survival mode
um they're looking at the world through
their own eyes they have fears like is
is there a framework by which you begin
to understand the other person yes uh
there is it doesn't really boil down to
five bullet points but it does boil down
to essentially like a handful of short
lectures right but walk me through it so
here's here's how I imagine you I don't
know if this is real or not but the very
first thing I wrote down when I started
researching it was how the hell do you
manage your own anxiety when you're in
spy mode and you can't give yourself
away but you have to figure something
out about that person so I imagine you
walk up to them whatever that you know
framework is the rubric that you're
determining who they are by I imagine it
kicks in right away how do you start
categorizing them when you first walk up
so when you first walk up to somebody
you've got to keep in mind that nobody
is what they appear to be nobody every
every human being has three lives it's
what we're taught three lives there's a
uh public life
a secret life and a private life right
so the order is public life private life
Secret Life
the public life is what we're all
presenting to each other it's what we
want to appear as in public
right you want to look cool and Suave
and handsome and you want to sound nice
and you want to surround yourself with
nice things because that's what you want
the public to perceive about you it may
not be real
but it doesn't have to be real if they
perceive it to be true then you have won
because you have just proceed you have
just manipulated their perception that's
why broke ass high school and college
kids will still wear nice name brand
stuff so they don't pers they don't look
like they're broke ass students right I
was one of those students so I remember
then you've got your private life now
your private life is what your closest
confidants know about you so what your
wife might know about you what your
close friends know about you what your
parents know about you so publicly
nobody knows my feet smell bad
privately my wife knows my feet smell
bad right but I'm never going to make
that part of my public Persona because
it goes against what I'm trying to
display as an image so here you've got
these two lives
when you meet a stranger they're
presenting their public life
always most of your connections most of
your friends unless they are in the
private life they are all in the public
life your co-workers your customers
these are all people who you are dealing
with you're interacting with on a public
life to public life level
we haven't even talked about the secret
life right the secret life is the life
that you don't share with anyone it's
that place where your darkest thoughts
your biggest
uh vulnerabilities it's where they live
and convince you every day not to share
them with your spouse not to share them
with your parents the things that make
you feel horrible about yourself the
things that you that you wonder if
they're really true but you're afraid to
even ask the question because what would
they think
they the public life they the private
life how would people judge me we all
have a secret life too for some people
secret life is big for some people's
secret life is quite small
but you've got these three lives so when
I approach somebody in spy mode or in
business mode or in Social mode I know
I'm dealing with a public life first so
are you trying to peel beneath that
sometimes spy mode in spy mode I'm sorry
no no please this is so interesting to
the average person you have no idea like
this is like movie [ __ ] in in spy mode
you have two objectives objective number
one is to get into someone's private
life as quickly as possible because if
you're not unless you're in someone's
private life you'll never get into their
secret life
objective number two once you're in
private life is to become one of the few
people that will ever penetrate their
secret life and there's only one reason
why you want to penetrate someone's
secret life because once you're there
you never leave
once someone has trusted you with a
secret life Secret
their their fealty to you their loyalty
to you is beyond question forever
because they believe that you have
earned that right to their secret life
they believe that you two are inherently
connected
star-crossed lovers Soul matches they
rationalize it however they need to
rationalize it but essentially all they
did is they just in a moment of
vulnerability they let you into one of
their deepest darkest secrets so they
have been leveraged like debt they have
been leveraged now so their deepest
darkest secret hinges on you keeping it
a secret and that is interpreted as
loyalty they interpret that as this is
the most trusted Confidant this is my
most trusted Lieutenant this person gets
me this person understands me I need to
be I need to have I need to do life with
this person so when you're a spy and you
get into someone's secret life that
means you get all the secrets if they're
a general in a nuclear program in a
hostile country you can just ask them a
question hey who are your missiles
pointed at what's the temperature sure
that you guys use or how often do you
enrich your uranium what's your primary
source of uranium you can ask them
anything because they don't even care
about that that's all stuff that they
basically have in their private life
you're in their secret life that stuff's
yours they'll just give it to you the
stuff they really care about is I'm
really not happy I'm I'm trapped in this
marriage that was arranged by my parents
and what I really like is this kinky
thing with this whatever that's going to
get me you know killed in my own country
but I can tell you about it so how do
you how do you get into that mode I'm
guessing you have to understand
something about them first so you have
to know what makes them tick you have to
understand what's going to make them
suspicious what's going to trip them up
are those like generally true or do you
have to tailor them to that specific
person
they you come in
to any operation against a human being
so human intelligence is called human
human operations human intelligence
operations whenever you come into a
human's operation you're using a
generalized dossier of the target set so
if I know I'm talking to an Asian person
who has traveled to Europe maybe
educated in Europe their parents are
well to do they live in China but they
were born in Cambodia you can kind of
come up with a general sense of the
person
walk me through that though so are you
thinking okay if you're born in Chinese
culture it's more collective in nature
so you probably feel a tremendous sense
of pressure from your family and so how
do I leverage that or no you have a
certain reaction to Authority and if I
can position myself like like are you
thinking like that you are exactly
that's exactly how you're thinking so
there's a couple things to keep in mind
so first is that there's three
developmental stages to the human brain
there's three developmental stages to
the human brain there's from birth to
seven years old from birth to seven
years old we're all sponges we don't
differentiate between true and untrue
information there's just information
right this is one of the reasons why my
son when he was four
just fell head over heels in love with
his grandpa his Grandpa's wrong pretty
much all the time he just lies he tells
stories that that never happened he just
makes stuff up right oh the reason this
is happening is because of that and I'm
like no that's that's not true at all my
four-year-old son doesn't care or when
he was four he didn't care but Babu who
he calls his grandpa Babu Babu tells the
best stories so now my son is 10. he has
left that first developmental stage but
because of those years spent with his
grandfather he is now predisposed to
believe his grandfather
the second developmental stage happens
from 7 to 13. in that period of time you
can start to differentiate true and
untrue information
but you choose which information you
want to give more value to so you're
still absorbing it you still retain it
but you might have a preference for one
information for one bit of information
or the other right so now this is the
place where it's like yeah I know I ate
broccoli once and it wasn't terrible but
I don't really want to eat it anymore
before that you're just like and if you
if you give a four-year-old broccoli
they'll put it in their mouth
so 7 to 13 people start to have a
preference for the information but they
still absorb it all
puberty from 13 to 25 nobody thinks
about this puberty lasts until you are
25 years old that period of time
cognitively is characterized by the fact
that you resist
some forms of information so now you
actually have a cognitive capacity to
hear something
and reject it and not even let it come
into your brain at all so 7 to 13 you
hear it you retain it whether you like
it or not zero to seven everything comes
in 13 to 25 you're actually rejecting
information so when we create a dossier
on somebody we're looking at those first
25 years where did they spend the first
seven years oh they spent it in China
lots of stuff we can ask we can high
probability assume a number of things
because they spent the first seven years
in China oh they spent their first seven
years in Alabama they've spent their
first seven years in in New York New
York they spent their first seven years
in Canada lots of stuff you can pull
from the foundation of how they were
programmed
seven to thirteen they did this okay so
they were exposed in some places like
Saudi Arabia North Korea turkey uh Syria
you can assume
that some pieces of information they
were just never exposed to right they
were predominantly exposed to one style
of information and if they were given
other information they may have absorbed
or they would have absorbed it but the
chances are they were never exposed to
it and then you look at them from their
puberty years 13 to 25 where were they
what were they doing what college did
they go to what high school did they go
to what countries were they in because
now you know well what would they have
been exposed to what would they have
rejected based on their predisposition
to these other formative years and now
you're talking them in their 35 or 45
after 25
neuroplasticity is still a thing for the
entirety of your life meaning your brain
can always learn something new but your
world view has been set by 25. so unless
something comes in and challenges your
worldview and you give it permission to
challenge your worldview
you're never going to change the way you
think after the age of 25. so we can
largely assume that every person that
we're talking to especially at their
government engineer super Secret
Squirrel stuff
they probably haven't been challenging
their worldview since the time that they
were 25. so now we have a we have these
different levels that we can use to make
probabilistic assumptions about how they
think and what they believe
when you have that dossier that
generalized dossier then you can go into
a more granular dossier about
what they drink what they eat who they
hang out with are they cheating on their
spouse how often do they use their phone
all the really Nitty Gritty detail stuff
to create a picture of how you want to
talk to this person so that your first
introductory line essentially
predisposes them to want to talk to you
for the entire conversation
and that's so interesting so do you did
you take classes on like okay if you
grew up in an American large city here
are going to be you know some of the
things you would have taken in by the
time you're 13 or
if you grew up in the Middle East then
it's you know you're going to be
probably Islamic culture here like the
main things you're going to need to know
about somebody like that so at CIA it's
organized according to disciplines so
they do a really good job of making sure
that people are compartmentalized in
terms of their skill sets so that no one
person can do everything and they also
capture the efficiency of scale by
having some people be really good at one
skill so they can essentially like a
like an industrial revolution uh
as
what is it called uh
assembly line so somebody says we need
to Target
nuclear engineers in Iran
and here is a list of and then a
different person a different discipline
says here's 12 nuclear Engineers that
travel outside of Iran that we think we
can actually get in front of and then
they give those 12 to an analyst team
and now your analytical targeters create
that generalized dossier and then that
those analytical targeters give it to
human targeters who create the
nitty-gritty dossier those human
targeters then give it to actual field
officers or case officers and say here
are the 12 people here's everything we
know about their background here's
everything we know about them
individually here's what we know about
their pattern of life where they hang
out what they like to order at their
favorite restaurants and what days of
the week they're going to be in those
restaurants and then they give it to the
field officer so the field officer can
review the whole case and say
here's how I'm going to do this here's
the day the place here's my opening line
here's where the conversation is going
to go we create our conversation map a
map of how we expect the conversation to
go with all of the different break-off
points where it might go awry and how we
bring it back together and then we go
and we execute and we execute what's
known as a bump or a cold introduction
with a known Target of interest and a
bump is your meat cute it's where you're
gonna bump into them I assume is where
that comes from from their perspective
yeah you're just bumping into them yeah
yeah right from their perception you're
just same place same time and it's
totally by happenstance because they're
living in their world if they actually
lived outside of their world they would
realize an entire team of people just
orchestrated this singular moment where
I say exactly the right thing to you at
exactly the right time to make the
conversation continue Jesus
are humans laughably predictable
laughably predictable
even I am laughably predictable man yeah
like it's you you and your team invited
me here knowing with high confidence
how I was going to react what I was
going to say unpredictable we all are
it's something that makes us human it's
just how you use another human's
predictability that kind of defines
whether you're Typecast as hero or
villain
so rough swags how many like personality
types do we break into there's science
that basically I'm I lean heavily on the
Myers-Briggs type indicator
it's what I was taught at the agency
it's what I've seen work in the field so
that's where I lean on and they break
people into 16 category types would that
be in your dossier that would be in your
dossier your Myers-Briggs would be the
estimated Myers-Briggs type indicator
for you would be in your dossier whoa
the field officer actually meets you
would then be able to tweak it further
because again public life private life
secret life you might we might assume
that you're an introvert and then I meet
you and you seem to act very extroverted
so now are you the introvert that we
assumed or are you the extrovert that
you present yourself to be only way
we're going to find out is by continued
consistent experience with you over time
right if I can get into your private
life and especially if I can get into
your secret life then I'll know then
I'll know whether you're introverted or
extroverted whether you're just playing
an extroverted role for the societal
opinion of you right but yeah it takes
time
so that would be in Udacity so I would
say roughly 16 types but then I would
also double that because every type is
going to have the the true personality
of who they actually are versus that
public life personality of who they're
trying to present themselves to be and
because each type each of those 16
personality types are predisposed to a
certain type of behavior publicly
they're also predisposed to a certain
type of behavior privately so how
different would their Myers-Briggs be
from so they're presenting themselves as
one personality type but in reality not
reality in secret life they're a
different personality type would those
often be very Divergent
sometimes not so sometimes they're very
Divergent it really depends on the
individual let me give you an example
right when we think about personalities
let's talk through a lens of resources
right individual resources so human
beings we're taught that human beings
only have three resources that matter
there is time
energy and money that's it every other
resource boils down to one of those
three resources time energy and money
for you to accomplish anything it takes
a certain balance of time energy and
money
so when it comes time for you or I to
live our public life
we go to a restaurant we go to uh I was
just at Megacon a big comic book
conference right I was there with my
kids and my wife it takes a certain
amount of money to buy the ticket money
to take to invest in the hotel room and
everything else it takes a certain
amount of energy to put up with all
those people and the lines and your kids
going crazy for Megacon and your wife
trying to get in line to meet Beverly
Crusher right from Star Trek so there's
a certain amount of energy that goes
into it and then of course there's a
time element
when you meet with somebody
you have to understand how they're three
those three resources are being used at
any given time so if you meet somebody
at the beginning of the day they're most
likely fully resourced you can reboot
your life your health even your career
anything you want all you need is
discipline I can teach you the tactics
that I learned while growing a billion
dollar business that will allow you to
see your goals through whether you want
better health stronger relationships a
more successful career any of that is
possible with the mindset and business
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today
you meet somebody at the end of the day
the gas tanks are at different levels
energy might be lower time is probably
running on empty uh money might be might
be safe that's it helps to know the
financial status of your client or your
target right so it you have to
understand how people's resources are
different the more a person's resources
are depleted
the closer they get to their true
Myers-Briggs Personality that is
interesting when they're fully resourced
they can fake it
they can act extroverted they can take
extra time to think something through
they can be non-judgmental but when
they're tapped when the end of the day
comes and they're fried that's when you
see who they really are so a big part of
the process of bringing someone from
public life to secret life is to drain
them of their resources systematically
so that you can see who they really are
because it's when they're in that low
point that you can essentially replicate
or mirror their core personality back to
them and then they let you into that
secret life
they're not you're not going to let
someone into your secret life who's
different than you so you have to mirror
back to them what you believe their true
personality to be and then they're like
if you like that let me show you this
other thing
dude that's crazy okay it's not that
different man than what we what you and
I just did off camera when we were
talking about 100 were you folding your
arms on purpose uh no because at one
point I noticed we both had our arms
folded and I was like okay are we
mirroring right now like what are we
doing no I was not I was not mirroring
you there I was not mirroring you there
um I was I'm just a little bit cold
sometimes in uh in these Studios but uh
the fact that we connected on a genuine
common interest and then from there the
I don't know if you noticed how quickly
the conversation turned into very
private conversation right and this was
me predictably responding to your
questions you were the one in control of
that conversation why did you homeschool
your kids why do you do this why did you
leave agent like you were asking the
questions I'm responding you're the one
in control questions are always being
asked by the person in control of the
conversation
I was just responding in a predictable
way because we had just connected over
something that made me bring you into my
private life
man this is really useful so when I
think about this obviously again I
understand how quickly this stuff can be
nefarious but I also understand how this
can be really useful in my marriage
first of all like understanding my wife
being able to take her perspective
understanding her perceptions uh that
stuff is incredibly incredibly helpful
and the times where I'm unable to pierce
her
um her frame of reference in my language
I'm like oh we're derailing because I
can't I can't get you to see that you
have a frame of reference on this and I
often use the David Foster Wallace quote
of this is water it's like your frame of
reference is so ever present you you
don't even realize you have one
and so the thought of there being a
dossier on me somewhere that's like got
their you know an estimate of my
Myers-Briggs and that for sure like so I
think of it not as I present a fake
version but there are I think of my
personality in slices and so every slice
that I present to people is real but I'm
only going to show my wife all of my
slices to your point that consistency is
the most difficult thing
um I I just wouldn't be able to be like
with my wife as long as I've been with
my I've been together 22 years I
wouldn't be able to be fake for that
long like at some point The Jig is going
to be up you're gonna like slip up and
so that like my wife sees all of my
slices everybody else sees some version
thereof
and what's interesting is as you
understand more and more of somebody's
slices two things happen you can you can
begin to predict their behavior and I'm
obsessed with the human brain as a
prediction engine and my whole thing
like we're we're living through a moment
where Thomas Soul has the perfect quote
to sum it up and people have this as a
paraphrase but people have exchanged
what worked for what sounds good and
this goes back to your idea of well you
can say that a truck's not heading
towards you but if a truck is heading
towards you it's heading towards you and
so there is there's what's really
happening and then there is your
perception of what's happening and
in in a desire to look at the world
through a lens of just pure acceptance
no judgment our prediction engines are
breaking and we're no longer dealing
with what I'll call is close to ground
truth as you can get you and I may
disagree a little bit on how much of the
world is objectively true
physics is true but like we don't even
understand physics fully right we're
still able to do like incredible [ __ ]
right so like we're we are existing at
some layer of abstraction all right rain
this back in because I could really
derail on that uh but in my marriage so
my ability to predict the outcome of my
behaviors as they Echo back off of my
wife or just my ability to predict her
native reaction or actions on something
is extraordinarily helpful
but I do a lot of this intuitively and
so hearing it like broken out like I
don't even know my wife's Myers Briggs I
know my own but even I don't even
remember what they mean anymore I did it
so long ago
um
when you think about this stuff and I
know you work with corporate clients
how how much do you really try to get
people to solidify this and how much of
it is just people play by ear
when it comes to how I teach others I
know that it's like uh you called me a
master earlier
and I am not a master I think the the
more you learn about something the more
you become an expert in something the
more you realize how much there is to
learn so I do not consider myself a
master of human psychology or a master
of human behavior I don't consider
myself a master really if anything
except being a masterful student of
continuing to learn more maybe
so when I teach a client my objective as
a service provider is to bring them
maximum Proficiency in the minimum
amount of time
they don't need to learn how to use this
12 different ways they hired me for one
specific purpose what I know being a
business owner is that if you can meet
someone's expectation once they'll come
back and they'll give you a second
chance to meet a different expectation
so when a corporate client comes to me
and says I want to learn how to use
these skills in my human recruiting
process right my my human resource
process
then let's do it right I don't tell I
don't make I don't distract them by
telling them how to incentivize their
High performers I don't distract them by
telling them how to improve their
relationship I don't distract them by
telling them how to improve themselves
you want to use this skill in your human
resource sourcing and Staffing
here's how we do it right and then when
they have success doing that
that's when they come back and they're
like that was amazing
how else can I use this or where else
can I use that or here's my next problem
my c-suite doesn't get along how do I
get my c-suite to get along how do I
increase communication between my
program management team and my budget
and finance team right now they bring
you specific problems and you solve
those specific problems that's how I end
up teaching it because people understand
their problems people don't necessarily
have the consistency or the
self-discipline it takes to master
multiple areas of a certain skill it's
not a luxury many of us have is there a
question so going back to your HR
example
do you think there are Universal
questions that will prompt people to
reveal themselves
in general would be my ideal but we can
limit it to HR if we have to so I would
my instinct is to say yes but I'd have
to think through what those questions
would be and how would I use time to
think about it here's the one that I use
in interviews because this is so culture
is everything to me like you might be
really smart but if you're not a good
cultural fit then we have a problem this
goes back to what I was talking about
we're living through a cultural moment
where people go they're they're not
um
they are so trying not to upset or
offend anybody that they don't realize
that people are predictable like you
were saying that they fall into certain
categories boys and girls is the easiest
one for me as somebody who writes Comics
like I just had to realize oh 12 year
old boys are into this 12 year old girls
are into this and they are wildly
Divergent desires and look that's on
average it's not everybody and of course
they're going to be some 12 year old
boys that prefer the girls comics and
vice versa
um but in an interview the question that
I ask is when was the last time you were
offended okay now that matters to me a
lot what are you hoping to discover from
that question I am trying to figure out
what their
um if they have thick skin
and very specifically what was it that
triggered you because that to me gets me
their frame of reference because I think
everybody's offended by something and
the question is what and if that if what
you give me is something small then I
know okay there's no way like you're
gonna in a business where it's it's just
data like it's either working or it's
not we're not competing against each
other we're competing against the market
and competitors and this is
running a business is the the closest
that most of us will come to a quote
unquote life and death situation where
you can literally go out of business
nobody has a job the company is now dead
uh and as the person you know that
started the company that's like real
stuff like that's really high stress and
so I need to know if in that dog fight
if I'm gonna have to worry about
overly worry about how I say things it's
a fair question
um I would
now that you've given me time to stall
and and think through it I would start
with a question that has more to do with
how they process information I would
start with a question like
how would you plan your ideal vacation
that is a good Universal question for me
because it's going to tell you
how they process information how quickly
they responded to tasking
um the time and resource demands that
we'll go into any future tasking you
give them while they're on the job
and the reason I come up with that is
there's a there's an exercise at CIA
that they put us through called the four
temperaments and they break these four
temperaments down into four different
animal categories basically
so the four animal categories are lions
foxes cheetahs and bears interesting
right tell me more so your lions are
people who have a temperament to
organize
your foxes are people who have a
temperament to create ideas to create
your cheetahs are people who have a
temperament to take action
and your bears are people who have a
temperament to build relationships so
why those animals none of those seem
self-evident I don't know other than the
cheetah the fox is also relatively
clever right I don't know why
um I was just taught and I just do what
I'm told yeah
so what ends up happening is you ask in
in a high performance team
a high performance team is a four block
team right if you can imagine a square
with four blocks inside it and each of
those blocks has is rep is
representative of one of those animal
temperaments you need each of them in a
high performing team you can have a good
team that doesn't have all four but if
you want a truly high performance team
you need all four present somebody to
organize someone to create ideas someone
to build the relationships someone to
execute
when you are looking to Source somebody
into HR you already know who you're
looking for we need bears we need
cheetahs we need Lions we need foxes you
should already know because you can run
the temperament of your existing staff
and if you want to build a high
performance team you need all four
blocks present so you just find the
missing block and then you start
sourcing for that
the questions that you want to ask you
want to ask questions that disarm the
person interviewing because guess what
every person you interview is in what
stage of their life or they're in what
of their three very Public public life I
need this job I want this job I'm super
ex I'm prepared for this job right I'm
prepared for this interview public life
so you need to disarm them if you're
going to find your way into their
private life if you want to see how they
actually behave you can't ask them
questions about the job you also can't
ask them questions that go against HR
policy you know federal policy about
what you do in an interview so you have
to ask these elicitation questions these
parallel questions and a question like
how would you plan your perfect vacation
is completely disarming to somebody so
if they say well
the first thing I would do is I would
make a list of all the places I want to
go and how much it costs to be there and
you know what the high season and low
season is now you know you're talking to
a lion
Lions want to organize right if you talk
to somebody what's your ideal vacation
oh man I'm just going to jump on the
next plane to Fiji you know you're
talking to a cheetah cheetah just wants
to take action what the hell are you
going to do when you get to Fiji I have
no idea but I'm on the next plane right
if you ask somebody what they're going
to do for their ideal vacation and they
come back and they're like you know I've
thought about this a lot and I'm either
going to Antarctica or I'm going to
Africa or I'm going to you know Saudi
Arabia because there's all this cool
stuff going on in all three places and
they've got fantastic reviews you know
you're talking to a fox
because a fox is full of ideas and if
you ask somebody where are you going on
your perfect vacation I'm going to go
anywhere my husband wants to go I'll go
wherever my best friend takes me you
know you're talking to a bear
it's all about the relationship with the
bear Nothing Else Matters right so when
you ask a one-off question you disarm
the person you already know they're
coming in armed up because they're in
their public life so you've got to
disarm them to get into their private
life and then you need to ask something
that's going to give you some insight
into how they're going to react on the
job I don't disagree with your question
about asking somebody the last time they
were offended but you run the risk of
making an assumption that isn't accurate
because you're asking them about
something that that they are publicly
their public life is going to influence
their answer significantly because they
know they're trying to get a job so they
might say oh well I don't really want to
admit that I was offended when my son
you know ate the last bowl of Cheerios
because that's going to sound childish
so I'm going to say something else
instead what can I say that's really
smart yes I hear all of that and I
haven't gotten any of the really cool
like Cheerio answers but one I know ever
asked that question in the beginning so
we're going to be deep in the interview
by the time I pull that one out but when
people speak they cannot help but reveal
themselves and so no matter what lie
they're trying to tell like even the
fact that they stumble in hem and ha is
like already information now maybe it's
because they're not easily offended and
so they're like Jesus wow I really have
to think about that but usually within
the context of the interview it becomes
pretty apparent by the time we get to
that question whether they're stalling
to buy time trying to come up with
something but then other times and I
don't know if people just are they're so
caught off guard that they'll give you a
real answer and it's like whoa uh yeah
it's pretty pretty revelatory the one
that I do along the lines of what's your
vacation is describe your closet how do
you organize your closet or what does
your closet look like right now don't
give me your ideal closet I want to know
what does your closet actually look like
and that will get like if I need
somebody that's super detail-oriented
and they're like okay my closet is
organized by color or designer or it's
like okay cool like this is somebody
that really like there's a method to the
madness
um that can be pretty useful now
bringing this into the world of
relationships
you and your wife both have a CIA
background she wasn't an operative
though so I don't know if you guys are
like constantly trying to evaluate each
other like take each other into the
perfect setting but how do you
um how do you guys deploy these knowing
that they are you have to have
psychological
um awareness Savvy too in my opinion
have a high functioning marriage how
much of this do you bring into your
relationship we bring a lot of it in uh
it's an it's silly to not bring it in we
were both we both joined CIA because we
love this stuff we independently join
the agency we independently were vetted
recruited trained and brought in we
didn't meet each other until we were in
complementary Fields inside CIA right
and then after meeting each other after
building a relationship after falling in
love after getting married then CIA
turned us into a tandem operational
couple because
it was just the perfect cover two two CI
officers married in real life can
basically operate anywhere with very
little outside support
so that was that was our Nexus that's
where we were kind of forged in fire
um now as business owners because my
wife is a co-owner of the business and
parents and spouses outside of CIA we
really lean heavily on the tools and the
language that CIA gave us to understand
human psychology probably the most
impactful
piece of everything they gave us that
plays into our marriage our relationship
now I was telling you about the three
different developmental periods right
zero to seven seven to thirteen thirteen
to twenty five and over
we have this concept of CIA that we call
the Thousand personalities
every everybody has a core personality
that under-resourced drained of all you
know additional all excess time money
and energy this is who a person is
but then you have a thousand
personalities that you can play
depending on what the like what the
scale is of your time energy and money
so this idea of a thousand personalities
has been incredibly valuable in marriage
because it makes it so that you can
be gracious and forgiving to any of the
Thousand personalities that present
themselves at any time that you are also
in one of your thousand personalities
and it really boils down to these for us
my wife and I it boils down to these
three developmental phases sometimes
she's dealing with me
and I am little Andy
Andy zero to seven
sponge Andy hurt child Andy you know my
father died before I was born so
sometimes she's talking to Andy who was
raised by just his mom and his grandma
and when she's talking to that Andy or
when that is the Andy responding to some
disaster in Life or business right she
can call it out she can say hey I'm not
trying to hurt little Andy's feelings
here right I need to talk to
adolescent Andy I need to talk to
puberty Andy right does that wind you up
in the moment like does that annoy you
or are you like oh word thank you that's
exactly what it is now because we speak
the same language because I speak to her
I speak to her little jihi right my
wife's name is G I speak to her little
jihi I speak to her teenage G I speak to
her grown-up G I speak to her c i a g he
I speak to her mom jihi I speak to her
wife jihi I speak to her business jihi
that's
and and now
we're we're not trying to point fingers
and Trigger each other because we're not
saying hey you're being a child we're
saying I need to speak to this
personality right I'm having a problem I
need this problem solved and the best
person that I know to solve this problem
is business jihi right so I understand
that you're in the middle of making a
peanut butter sandwich and I understand
that you didn't get enough sleep last
night and I understand that you're
really hoping that you get your bath
later tonight
all of those things are valid
but for this five minute conversation I
need to talk to business ghee right and
she can do the same thing to me
that's really potent uh it's interesting
how we bring these different frames of
reference you can snap yourself into
actually feeling differently like I can
I would never have used those words
um but I can snap myself out maybe
that's not quite the word I can wildly
diminish my anxiety which has always
been my struggle by I'll say the phrase
remember who you are and what I mean I'm
snapping myself into what you'd probably
refer to as business Tom or entrepreneur
Tom where it's like oh yeah remember the
things I've done what I've accomplished
all the like mental faculties that I
have at my disposal that for whatever
reason right now like don't feel
accessible it's so weird it is that I
can shift into that and I can feel small
and scared and all that and then I just
say that phrase and I'm like my chin
comes down my brow froze and I'm like oh
that's right like I know who I am and
what I can do and so
the Thousand personalities knowing that
you're in one of these different ways
you are those other things too though
brother like I'm not I'm not I'm not
diminishing your
you know remember who you are mantra but
I I want to encourage you also not to
diminish you are all the other things
too you are still the zero to seven
you're still a childhood Tom is that
useful absolutely that's useful despise
those moments and that might be why the
experience happened at all and some part
of that experience shaped who you are
now
so there's a resource in those
experiences when you carte blanche
reject them because you despise them you
use a term like that I'm sure there are
things that happen between zero and
seven that you don't despise oh I didn't
mean the age only that feeling of being
anxious and oh that feeling isn't too
weak for something hate yeah that
feeling sucks but we're talking about a
feeling we're not talking about a
rational frame of reference right we're
talking about a feeling so as an example
in marriage especially your spouse
because your spouse is the closest
person to your secret life perhaps your
spouse is in your secret life which
would be awesome if you have your wife
and your secret life
my wife is very much in my secret life
your spouse understands you
at a very deep level if she's in your
secret life or he's in your secret life
and sometimes they suspect that what
they're dealing with is some sort of
memory trauma Behavior conditioning that
happened when you were a child
zero to seven so they they get the
benefit of being able to call that out
if that's what's happening or if they
suspect that's what's happening when you
engage in that kind of openness and say
this is what I was like as a kid for me
I was always competing for attention my
mom's attention because my mom was a
single mom
she was working two jobs sometimes three
she was going to school I spent a lot of
time with my grandma all I wanted was
mom because what does every child under
the age of seven want mom they say they
want dad sometimes but they want mom
they want that nurturing loving maternal
figure and I didn't have that very often
so I learned very young that I had to
compete to get Mom's attention and that
competing to get Mom's negative
attention was not a good way of doing it
so acting out was not productive instead
I had to excel I had to exceed I had to
be super helpful around the house I had
to be super independent if I could make
myself if I could get up at six o'clock
in the morning on Saturdays I could
watch my cartoons pour a bowl of cereal
be awake and be alert and be fed by 6 30
in the morning when my mom woke up and
she'd be like Andrew
did you feed yourself
good job and what are you watching and
let me sit with you and then I got Mom's
attention
so my wife knows that when I'm showing
that attention-seeking behavior to her
to clients to whatever else she knows
that it's going to drain my resources
very quickly so she'll call it out
she'll be like hey is this little Andy
trying to seek attention
because he sees some sort of opportunity
or is this business Andy cultivating a
client with Biz Dev or whatever and then
I can look back and say oh yeah it's a
great call girl like if I'm putting this
much energy into a client it better be
the right client if I'm putting this
much energy into whatever some the the
neighborhood watch Parent
then it better be for a good reason
because I'm going to drain resources
when I drain those resources who's going
to pay the penalty my wife my kids my
staff so it's really useful to me to
have her be able to communicate to me in
those terms and for me to understand
that there are advantages that come from
zero to seven seven to thirteen I mean
my worst years of my life were from 13
to 25 I was I mean those were hard
horrible years most people those are
hard horrible years right is there
something specific
uh I I was in the military I should have
never been in the military like ROTC I
was an Air Force Academy graduate so um
so 13 to 14 right when I was going into
puberty my dad was my stepdad was a
Vietnam vet and was lived we ran he ran
a very military household as it related
to me the stepson so part of me was
always prepared to go into the military
because my dad told me right you're out
of the house at 18. you're either going
in the military or getting a job you're
not going to college because we don't
have any money for you to go to college
so that was always my rubric right I'm
going to get a job and I'm or I'm going
to go into the military but I don't have
a home
April 18th the day after I turned 18. I
no longer have a home and my dad made it
very clear like this is how it's going
to work were you still in high school I
was my senior year 18 and 18 I was going
to I was going to graduate in May and
April was my birthday so you didn't even
get to finish high school so I'm sure
that they would have I got to finish
high school and but I needed a plan
right right like I had to demonstrate
that I had a plan it wasn't like I was
going to graduate high school and be
able to stay at home right and I kind of
knew that so you know back up 1617 I'm
making this plan for when I turn 18
because I've been conditioned by my
stepdad since I was like 12. you're out
of the house at 18. and college is not
an option so I happen to find that a
military school the Air Force Academy is
a full ride scholarship to a university
and it's also in the military so what is
little Andy zero to seven Andy thinking
well maybe I'll make my stepdad happy if
I go into the military maybe I can erase
all of these years of pain and torment
and trying to impress him if I just show
him that we're the same
and I joined the military should not
have joined the military
it just wasn't a good fit for me it was
a very very difficult time and from
about 16 on all I was doing was trying
to qualify for the Air Force Academy
trying to you know demonstrate my
military discipline in my military
structure and submit to Authority and
everything else you know I was doing
everything through a lens of
you know trying to prove that I'm
successful in this realm that's what so
many of us do without even realizing
that we do it or why we do it I I
wouldn't change any of it for the world
because I now have those experiences to
pull from as I make my own decisions now
but a lot of that came because I was
able to make my own decisions it was it
was me trying to fit into the rubric of
following orders and being Elite that
took me to CIA
on my own volition I don't know that
that would have ever happened so I have
to look back at little Andy and teenage
Andy and Adolescent and Andy and and all
the trauma and all the challenges that
drove me through what what I experienced
because they contributed to why CIA
recruited me yeah
do you think that they contributed to
why you're a high achiever absolutely so
another one of the first lessons that
you get at CIA at least in CIA field
operations one of the first lessons they
tell you is that there's a strong
connection and empirical connection
between childhood trauma and high
achievement
the science is out there that I've
looked it up on my own the the
connection is extraordinary that people
who who experience the right amount of
childhood trauma the right amount being
enough that you had to prove something
but not so much that you had to adopt
external coping mechanisms right whoa
Wells that like drugs correct drugs uh
addictions to pornography uh substance
abuse uh submitting yourself to the
authority of others right like there's a
certain amount of trauma that's the
right amount of trauma that turns you
into this High achiever you always have
to win something because you're trying
to win favor when attention win rewards
win Glory win something so you're always
achieving you're always driving yourself
towards something but it's not because
you were born with drive it's because
some part of your childhood those
formative years taught you
that by achieving you will be rewarded
so that becomes the inherent thought by
achieving I will be rewarded so now all
of a sudden you project that onto a 40
year old a 50 year old a 25 year old
they're going to have all the drive in
the world because they believe they will
be rewarded
this is so fascinating so I love people
that have kids even though I've chosen a
different path how are you going to play
this with your kids like are you up you
turned 18 gotta go or something
completely different yeah you know it's
funny I I have to admit that I haven't
got it figured out yet I don't I don't
have to figure it out 20 years old
already I know and the days just keep on
rolling there are certain things that
I've I've chosen to value and my wife
and I have these these conversations
pretty often Legacy is extremely
important to me the whole reason really
the whole reason I'm running fine Legacy
please so for me Legacy is the legacy of
how my family how my children and my
children's children
remember me and remember my
contributions to the family okay I'm not
I'm not worried about Building Wealth
yeah it'd be great to build wealth but
the truth is when I look back and this
is very much how I was raised right
I don't even know my father
he was murdered oh God yeah he was
killed in a violent crime but I was I
was less than a year old still I know
nothing about it yeah yeah yeah so my
father was killed in a violent crime I
never knew him my stepdad came into my
life when I was four and became my
stepdad when I was five so I never knew
my father my stepdad was not a man that
I had a close relationship with so when
I look back on my family heritage
it gets thin pretty fast I have a
grandma my grandma was married and
divorced I'm pretty sure more than once
my mom has been married and divorced
more than once
my dad's mother and father I don't even
really know like I think I've read about
them I may have met I'm I met my
father's mother once and that was all it
took for me to be like I see why my
father didn't stay with you kind of
thing you know what I mean yeah so for
me Legacy is all about
what is the foundation that you're
giving your children to continue to
progress and achieve more than you did
the big thing that was lacking from my
childhood was love and support I was
fighting for my mom's attention she was
fighting for the survival of her family
I don't I it's that's a pretty low bar
so if I can just give my kids love and
attention and give them an experience
where we're not struggling to survive
that's step one
but I also know empirically
they have to experience some level of
trauma if they're going to be high
achievers
so do I intentionally create whatever
that trauma is or
do I try to be there to help guide them
through it as it happens because maybe
it happens somewhere else or do I accept
that my children might just not be high
achievers
brother I'm holding my breath for the
answer here like don't leave us hanging
yeah so I I don't I don't have it
figured out I know for a fact I want
them to feel loved and I want them to
feel supported I oftentimes question
whether or not they should be high
Achievers why do we value High Achievers
I value High Achievers because I believe
myself to be a high achiever I connect
with other high Achievers life is more
enjoyable because I'm always trying to
achieve something but then I think about
all the creatives out there
the vast majority of the creative people
in the world are not actually High
achievers they're creators right the
people who draw the comic books you and
I love the people who make the music You
and I love
like somebody drives them somebody
creates a schedule for them somebody
creates a production schedule for them
somebody forces them to go on tour
somebody drives them and drives them and
that's why we see so many amazing
artists
turn to coping mechanisms like drug
alcohol and everything else to try to
get through the stress of their life
perhaps they're not
Achievers on their own they're just deep
creators and they're happy to sit in a
dark room somewhere and if someone just
brought them a sandwich every three
hours or so
they would create amazing things so I
don't know I think I have the closest
saying to a solution on this so one I
totally agree on the trauma thing and
this really is one of the reasons that
my wife and I decided not to have kids
because I knew they'd have to go through
something hard and I didn't know if I
could watch my kids go through something
hard without stepping in and solving the
problem for them so I thought I was
going to be the ultimate what do they
call them tiger moms like I thought that
was going to be me I'm just going to be
helicoptering in there solving every
problem I just I wasn't sure so
um the way that I approach this is
through the lens of fulfillment so I
really believe that we are biological
creatures and there are subroutines
running in your pink matter whether you
want them to be or not and a lot of it
has to do with just the 50 of you that's
hardwired and it's become fashionable to
act like we are blank slates we are not
blank slates
the brain works in a certain way and
this is why humans are laughably
predictable and because of that I think
everyone is pushed violently by The
Winds of evolution to pursue fulfillment
which I have a formula for a recipe is
probably the right way to think about it
and the recipe is you have to work
really hard I can go into why but you
have to work really hard to attain a set
of skills that allow you to serve not
only yourself but other people in a way
that you find exciting like that's it if
you're doing that then you will feel
centered in your life it doesn't mean
that you won't go through grief it
doesn't mean that life won't get brutal
at times but it does mean you have an
orienting mechanism in fact I think it
was you that said in fact what what is
life about what's the meaning of life
yeah it's all about self-respect perfect
okay so it definitely was you uh I've
always told people the only thing that
matters is how you feel about yourself
when you're by yourself
self-respect you have to do something
that makes you think you are worthy of
respect no one can give it to you you
can't stare in the mirror and say I love
you I love you I love you it won't work
you have to do something that you
believe is worthy of respect and part of
that I think for people to respect
themselves is they have to do something
that they think is exciting but is also
Honorable in that it helps not only
themselves but other people and so if
you do that then you'll have this core
thing that will see you through the
tumult of the ups and downs of Life lost
love all that good stuff and
the one trick in all of this is that
you're gonna be super driven I think to
to feel good about yourself you're gonna
have to have dominion over your own life
which means when you say you're going to
do something you do it that takes an
insane amount of discipline and drive
so through all of that though you're
going to have to make a decision around
what am I going to Value myself for so
that idea of self-respect you decide
what you think is worthy of of respect
in yourself and other people it is a
decision
and it would be different from culture
to culture there's going to be a lot of
similarities but they will vary right
and in that if people make the mistake
of saying I value myself for the
achievement you're dead you're done your
life is going to suck you're screwed
because there are going to be times
where you nail it and you're going to
feel good but it will be so related to
whether you got the outcome or not it
won't even be fun and so you hear about
all these gold medalists that are like
okay first of all it was a nightmare
trying to win the gold medal and then
once I won it like my life was
completely empty
but if instead of making it about the
outcome you make it about the pursuit
all I value myself for and this is
really me talking this is sincere this
is how I think about myself all I value
myself for is this sincere pursuit of my
goals now my goals need to be exciting
and honorable as explained previously
but I may never achieve it so I'm trying
to build the next Disney the odds of me
succeeding are virtually zero
but
I show up every day I leave it all out
on the field man and so if I fail look
it will be a gut punch there's no doubt
but I won't lose respect for myself
based on whether I do it or don't do it
because then it's like a thing that like
is way off in the Disney I can't respect
myself for the next 50 years while I try
to do this like that doesn't make any
sense to me
so tying your self-esteem to the sincere
pursuit of something
feels like the only way out of a death
trap that is an awesome
that's an awesome formula it's an
awesome formula because it takes the
achievement factor out
that's what makes it so awesome we are
all conditioned at least in American
culture Western culture we are if you're
if if we're speaking English
and you're listening to this in your
native tongue you have been
preconditioned to believe that
achievement is the ultimate goal it's
just how the Western mind works
your formula makes it about working hard
to achieve a set of skills that allows
you to make a contribution that you find
exciting
achievement doesn't have to happen right
and and won't quite frequently like
you'll get wins hopefully along the way
but because I work with so many people
that are trying to build businesses
I'm always telling him look the Success
is Not Guaranteed but the struggle is
this is going to be hard no matter what
you're trying to do you're trying to be
a piano teacher you're trying to be
you're trying to build the next
Microsoft doesn't matter it's all going
to be hard
now the question becomes
will you love the struggle or not yeah
because you may never achieve your goal
and even if you do it's some amount down
the road and so if you're not loving the
difficulty you're gonna have a hard time
yeah and I remember my business partners
my former business partners and I we
used to ask a question that I think it
certainly caused me a lot of suffering I
won't speak for them but the question
was what would we do if we knew we
couldn't fail
and I remember that question was
presented to me like it was the smartest
thing in the world and I just thought um
I don't think that's the right question
because what I found was the success
isn't guaranteed but the struggle is so
I was like what is the right question
and to me the right question is what
would I do and love every day even if I
were failing because that I can
guarantee like there's going to be some
ridiculously long stretch of time a year
can feel like a long time when you're
taking shots to the face oh yeah and in
that year what would you love doing even
if it wasn't working out and then do
that thing right and so that has been an
organizing principle of my life
so unfortunately I chase money for a
decade almost a decade
and that was miserable and the irony of
my life is I don't end up getting
wealthy until I stopped chasing money
and I start chasing purpose now business
Acumen is a huge part of my success
story so I don't want people to get
delusional that like oh it's some
Pollyanna story and once you just love
other people everything works out no
right but once you have another thing
that's going to keep you pushing when
things get hard now you've really got a
shot
um but yeah so many people Orient
themselves around I imagine myself
standing on the podium winning the award
getting the Academy Award making
millions of dollars and and I'm gonna
feel at that moment the way I feel about
the people that I look at when they win
but it's a very different experience to
win the award get the money than it is
to look at the person winning the award
and getting the money you know I love
that idea of embracing the struggle
because it
the closest thing I have found
to espionage the closest thing I found
to spy work
is business I knew you're gonna say that
it's the closest thing all the sense in
the world to me it's the closest thing
out there you have to get in the head of
your client just like you have to get in
the head of your target the the constant
experimentation the constant shots to
the face the constant failure we have
something called a probability curve
that we use at the agency and the
probability curve is basically telling
you that the most probable outcome is
failure
eighty percent of the time you're going
to fail
20 of the time you're going to succeed
so you've got to be ready to fail eight
times before your first success and that
doesn't mean it's going to be an
exponential success it's just not a
failure right right it might take 30 40
50 swings before you actually hit that
home run so what what's going to keep
you swinging what's going to keep you
swinging because you're not going to get
excited when you hit a base hit after
eight swings you're just not gonna get
excited about that right what's going to
keep you coming back day after day after
day
and in business it's the same way I've
gotten to use all of the Spy skills in
business I've gotten to meet amazing
people in business I've gotten to go to
amazing places in business and that's
exactly what Espionage is like and I'm
just in a in a blessed position now
where our business continues to succeed
and continues to thrive and we just
double down on what we know Works keep
holding it keep treating it like it's a
spy operation and keep teaching people
that business is the closest thing to
spying because it works we don't know I
can't say that I know why it works I can
only tell you what I know about
Espionage and why Espionage works and
I'm seeing that the correlation exists
in business as well I have to imagine
that it's because it's psychology
business is entirely psychology when
you're writing a sales letter email
Twitter post whatever it is
you trying to understand what will be
heard not just what is said yeah and
whether I'm interviewing somebody
whether I'm working with one of my
employees it really is a game of
psychology and so I more or less teach
people how to be CEOs inside of what we
call impact Theory University
and uh I did this High ticket thing for
a while we'll probably bring it back at
some point but the problem is the reason
that I'll say maybe at some point even
though it's incredibly lucrative for us
it
what people actually need meaning what
business really is is not what they
think it is yeah and so the the
marketing gap on that I have not figured
out how to get people to understand what
if you want to be a successful
entrepreneur what you have to know how
to do is make good decisions and
what people think they need is a great
marketing funnel and you do need that
yeah but that's like down the road right
and you do need good copywriting skills
and you do need good sales skills uh you
need to make a good product for sure for
sure but at the end of the day you have
to be able to solve novel problems
that's being an entrepreneur and if you
can't solve novel problems well you're
screwed and there really is a way to
think through these problems that
follows a rubric that you really can
teach people and so I've now been in
three different Industries the first
important for me to know the first
industry I started which was in software
I started as an employee but worked my
way up to being a co-owner of the
company
but then the next two were companies I
started from [ __ ] scratch and so
three companies in a row and three
wildly Divergent Industries have built
multi-million dollar companies one we
sold for a billion dollars so it's like
hey this is teachable it's repeatable
and it's all psychology you have to
understand your own psychology you have
to understand where you break down you
have to understand when you become
little Tom little Andy little whatever
like you've got to understand that
you've got to understand
how
what is the problem that people are
trying to solve how do you show that you
have the solution to that problem and it
better be real like the thing you
created better actually work because if
it doesn't now you're going to be in
trouble so that means you have to be
able to see your own perspective you
have to be able to break it down so
you're not lying to yourself so that you
recognize what's working and not working
the truth is hitting your career goals
is not easy you have to be willing to go
the extra mile to stand out and do hard
things better than anybody else but
there are 10 steps I want to take you
through that will 100x your efficiency
so you can crush your goals and get back
more time into your day you'll not only
get control of your time you'll learn
how to use that momentum to take on your
next big goal to help you do this I've
created a list of the 10 most impactful
things that any High achiever needs to
dominate and you can download it for
free by clicking the link in today's
description alright my friend back to
today's episode I don't I don't claim to
have the answer here but we have a
similar problem in human intelligence
operations and
and this is this is where I believe the
the public disdain for CIA comes from
CIA recruits us another one of the
lessons they tell us is that they
recruit us for something known as moral
flexibility
that just sounds horrible it just sounds
horrible it sounds like the book you
recommended right uh a billion a billion
wickets that book is so good buy for
anybody that has a strong stomach when
you hear moral flexibility you have the
same reaction right oh that sounds
horrible but it sounds so good so moral
flexibility is essentially the idea that
you can
move you can shift your ethics and your
morals around some other objective
right if you don't have that if you have
strict morals and strict ethics you're
not going to do well in clandestine
operations you're just not you have to
have flexibility to say Here Comes Your
guidepost is it protecting Americans yes
it becomes honestly as as again this is
where people don't like CIA
cia's mission is American Primacy um
that's it right that's the goal it goes
all over the 80s I love American
premises I love it the most I know
that's so out of fashion right now it is
out of fashion I think it's crazy
everybody should want Primacy for their
own country they absolutely should and
if you're an American the fact that we
have the freest country in the world do
we have problems yes are our problems
anywhere like other countries problems
no spoken by somebody who's been in
other countries it's nuts man it's
incredible how people lose perspective
they never gain perspective they're
trapped in their own perception about
how bad America is America's messed up
I'm not saying it's not we're like we're
an adolescent country in the
developmental stages of a country where
just over 250 years old I think we're
just under 250 years old we're freaking
adolescents we're teenagers of course
we're all [ __ ] up right what teenager
do you know that has it all figured out
we've got we've got growing to do but
let's not negate the progress that we've
made just because we're not where we
want to be yet right but either way
moral flexibility is this idea that you
can change your personal ethics to fit a
larger goal ours is American Primacy CIA
believes and the the government of the
United States believes that as long as
America is the strongest country in the
world the world is a safer place to
Americans
if you don't like the way that sounds
then you don't want to work in the
government right we're not worried about
the security of Nigerians we're not
worried about the security of
Australians we're not worried about the
freedom of human rights in you know Sri
Lanka that's not our first goal it might
be somewhere like goal 75 goal number
one keep Americans safe give Americans
every opportunity to succeed in a world
that's dominated by the United States
to be dominated by something it's going
to be dominated by somebody exactly
right so this idea of moral flexibility
is a big part of what CIA recruits us to
do they recruit us because we have moral
flexibility to make that American
Primacy Mission happen and then they
also teach us
that when you are engaging with somebody
a Target and that Target has potential
value to the mission
sometimes you have to Veer from your own
ethics about dealing with people to meet
them where they are so that you can get
into their private and secret life and
guide them to where you need them to be
did that mess with your head or do you
find that easy I found it thrilling I
wouldn't say I found it easy it's a
there's a learning curve there but it
was absolutely thrilling it's like you
said something you enjoy doing right
something that brings you excitement
learning how to manage people like
manage them on I say manage we learned
how to manipulate people that's what CIA
taught us how to do we weren't making
friends with these folks right you're
finding this the most powerful most uh
vulnerable people in the world who have
access to secrets that keep Americans
safe that's not a big population there's
really only a small population that has
that level of access that level of
secret access right you had to find them
you had to befriend them you had to get
into their secret life you had to get
them to commit their their site the
safety of themselves and their family to
you
and then eventually your real goal is to
institutionalize them so that you can
basically leave and a junior officer can
step in to maintain that relationship do
you reveal who you are at some point
sometimes sometimes you reveal who you
are sometimes it's better to leave what
we call a fig Leaf where they think they
know who you are but they're never
really sure because if they were sure
they might self-destruct right right
that's another thing another predictable
human thing
human beings like to self-destruct we
feel like we like to self-destruct what
yeah we all carry this self-destruct
button on our chest that's what we say
right a big red self-destruct button
so when we start to get ourselves into
trouble
you start to lie and then you tell
compounding lies
because you're trying to get yourself
out of the situation that you got
yourself into inevitably you're going to
land on a point where you're like I just
need to come clean
wow that's something that we do right
and then you've got the people out there
who refuse to lie because they're so
afraid of that moment that they only
tell the truth yeah well when you only
tell the truth guess what you do
whoa I'm evaluating myself internally
like crazy right now so uh keep going so
so where why do we like to self-destruct
we like to self-destruct because we in
our in our brains we create this low
probability outcome where all will be
forgiven and we'll be able to reset
what we don't like people can reinvent
you can always reinvent you can never
reset there is no this isn't freaking
Nintendo right there's no hitting select
or start and starting all over again you
just don't get to do that you got to
finish the game
and then you can restart you can
reinvent you can recreate
but you can't go backwards you can't
reset so true we keep thinking and we
keep thinking that we can reset we keep
thinking that we can go back to the
blank slate that you already said never
actually existed
we can't we have to keep playing the
game you have to you can Retreat or you
can advance but you can't restart the
war you're in it you're in it and you've
only got one chance you've only got one
ride on this rock that circles in One
Direction Right Time only goes one way
until we find out how to do it otherwise
this is just where we are you've got to
accept that reality you can't perceive
something different you have to accept
the reality that you're going where
you're going
two things happen when you accept that
reality the first thing is that you
learn that everything that's happened
that you would is that that you would
think that your instincts tells you to
just reset and start over reset and
start over just whitewash it all
reformat the disk and let's start over
again
so we like to self-destruct because we
are misinterpreting the moment right
because we are telling ourselves a lie
in our head right we're telling
ourselves that it's better to start over
than to start Where We Are
wow it's never better to start over you
are this you are a fantastic example
because you accept it you are the sum
total of all of your experiences good
and bad you are zero to seven seven to
thirteen thirteen to whatever age you
are now you are all of that sum of all
of that experience and all of your
learning you you use the Mantra don't
forget who you are or remember who you
are is that what you say remember who I
am what you're really remembering is
everything that brought you to where you
are you can't pick and choose you can't
reset it that is what it is and it's a
[ __ ] superpower
but it's a superpower for everybody
it's a superpower for everybody I'm
nowhere near the financial success that
you are I'm nowhere near the achievement
that you've achieved I'm nowhere near
the notoriety that you have nowhere near
it
but you still invited me to come here
there's something I offer of value that
made this conversation interesting and
relevant to you
we all have that kind of
power what we call wasta wasp is the
Arabic word for influence right we all
have that kind of wasta we just have to
learn to lean into the wasta that we
have and leverage it to achieve what
we're trying to achieve to build what
we're trying to build we can't just
reset it and start over we and we spend
so much time people spend so much time
bemoaning their background instead of
leveraging it into something amazing
turning it into something productive
right and and what ends up happening is
the reason Espionage works the reason
business works is because human beings
laughably predictable human beings are
always unhappy Edgar Allan Poe said
people are never truly happy until
they're unhappy
because you're unhappy
as soon as something makes you happy you
start to worry about when that happiness
is going to be taken away by something
that makes you unhappy
so you can never actually reach
happiness you're you're your average
person is happy as long as they're
unhappy because that's when they're
content they believe well
everything's everything's miserable it
can't really get worse than this that's
so weird so when in Espionage you're
looking for those people you're you're
always looking for the person who has
access to Secrets because once you find
the few people who have access to
Secrets there's a high probability
they're miserable because everybody's
[ __ ] miserable
so then all you have to do is use the
skills to get into this miserable
person's secret life and make them think
that you're doing it because you care
about them as a person when in fact you
just care about their access because
what you really are after is American
Primacy and then once you get that
person to trust you because they bring
you into your secret life you just drain
their secrets feed it back to American
legislators and you prepare this person
to be turned over to a new person that
they never even led into their secret
life in the first place
but now you vouch what we call Advocate
you advocate for this new person who's
coming in which means your trust and
your credibility and their secret life
is automatically carried on to the
person that you introduce them to
they are now what we call
institutionalized assets they don't even
realize that their loyalty is not to Tom
and Andy their loyalty is to CIA and
they don't even realize it
all while keeping their hand off the
self-destruct button and because you're
keeping their hand off the self-destruct
button because you know remember how I
was telling you sometimes we leave them
a fig Leaf I'm sorry I'm just rolling
here man if I'm cutting you off
interrupt me anytime no no that's
amazing when a spy realizes oh [ __ ] I'm
giving away Secrets what they think to
themselves is I need to go self-report I
need to go tell my boss I need to go
tell the police I need to go tell
something because if I'm caught
especially in the countries that we
steal secrets from if I'm caught they're
going to kill me they're going to kill
my wife they're going to kill my kids
they're going to kill my parents they're
going to make us all a public spectacle
to make sure that nobody ever does this
again
so they're stuck between a true rock and
a hard place because they think to
themselves if I self admit what I'm
doing
I might get killed if I keep doing if I
if I get caught doing what I'm doing I
might get killed so the self-destruct
button they have is to pull away from
you to like go into hiding and then
potentially to leak it at some point in
the future so then you lose access to
them immediately two years down the road
they still self-destruct they still tell
somebody man this one time I was talking
to an American and I accidentally gave
him like the codes to our nukes and I
realized that maybe I shouldn't trust
him and then somebody reports them
anyways and families get killed we have
to protect them from their own Natural
Instinct so a big part of what why we
continue to meet with our assets is so
that we can constantly cultivate and
train them to resist that urge right
there's no resetting how do you get them
to resist that urge what you're doing is
good yes I care about you positive
reinforcement what you're doing nobody
spies
nobody spies for the reason they think
they spy just like you were saying
people don't want to know about business
the people don't want to learn
what they need to learn they want to
learn what they want to learn I'm
totally massacre at Massacre
but people don't spy for the reasons
they think they spy people spy for
what's known as a core motivation right
we call it a core motivation and there's
only four core motivations
and they fall into a a uh acronym that
we call Rice r-i-c-e
rewards is a core motivator ideology is
a core motivator coercion is a core
motivator and ego is a core motivator
there we go those are it that's all you
got wow every human being is driven in
every decision by those four things dude
I love these rubrics These are fantastic
so when you when you recruit somebody
when you when you create a spy
it's all based in one of those four
areas you just have to know which of
those four areas is most relevant to
that person and you'll know which of
those four areas based on what you know
about their three stages of life
so this person is ideologically driven
this person is ego driven this person is
reward driven this person won't do
something unless you hold a gun to their
face you just know it right and then you
test it over time
so when you when you are managing and
handling a human asset they're a human
being
they think that they're giving you
Secrets because you're their friend
they think that they're in some kind of
trusting relationship now maybe you're
their friend who also pays them maybe
you're their friend who in who
encourages them to believe in the power
of democracy and they're in a communist
country who knows right so you're
feeding them whatever their core
motivation is
but you're also inside their secret life
so you've got the Loyalty piece covered
the human response to loyalty right the
human response to being in someone's
secret life is that loyalty that that
fealty
you've got that but you're also feeding
them on an incentive basis by hitting
their core motivation so those that's
the magic one-two punch so that's how
you keep someone
resourced and charged so that they don't
ever press the button that's waiting for
them that self-destruct button is always
there just takes one bad day one bad
decision one moment of weakness to press
it
that's all you got to do is prevent
people from doing that do they believe
if they press that button that they'll
get more lenient treatment yes you
believe that too man you've had that
conversation in your own head where
you're like if I just come clean if I
just admit the truth if I just share
whatever right then it'll be less bad
than if I don't there must be something
tru-ish about that
do people actually like I'm I'm trying
to put this on the scale of like they're
gonna kill my family everyone I know and
love like that's so heavy man and humans
can be gnarly in the extreme
do they actually get letter treatment or
is this like a Fool's errand it's a
Fool's errand it's a full when you're in
a place where that's the risk
you've got it like you have to look at
everything through a lens of of cultural
norms right in a country where it's a
norm to make a public statement through
the mass execution of a family line
which is that's a country where family
name carries a lot of weight Asian
families family names in Asia carry an
incredible amount of weight Japan we
were just talking what is Japan all
about honoring what ancestors
everything so to bring dishonor to the
family name
is such a heavy thing that the
self-destruct button those people might
press is execution is just suicide
you know what happens if your asset
kills themselves they stay secure but
you lose a source of information so you
can't let that happen right there's lots
of different versions of a self-destruct
button
the trick is the the mission is to make
sure that they never think that
self-destruct is the best option it's
always an option they always remember
that it's an option right I certainly
went through a phase in my life where I
was thinking dark Suicidal Thoughts
really many people do uh in in Seattle
in that in that 13 to 25 year old
pubescent Andy okay there was absolutely
like dark nail polish like my I don't
like my stepdad my mom doesn't pay
attention my sisters are the favorites
you know I was running into racial
issues at school
like there's all sorts of stuff there
and you certainly have those thoughts
where you're like what's the [ __ ]
point like is this really work no one's
even gonna miss me right like the the
amount of people who have had those
thoughts is is surprisingly large it
doesn't mean we take action on it right
it's an option
right it's not really a reset
it's not you're not starting all over
again you're just ending what you have
when people are thinking about smashing
the self-destruct button do is it
normally to confess or is it do people
kill themselves it's normally to confess
confession is confession is
again this makes me sound like a just an
incredibly horrible person confession is
the worst of the two options
from the point of view of an
intelligence officer because if someone
confesses then they're no longer
providing access to information but
they're also potentially admitting that
you were the one handling them so now
that brings a whole world of pain on you
plus if someone starts to investigate
you then how long before they start to
take apart the network that supported
you in that country or in the field
right now all of a sudden there's like
secondary and tertiary levels of of risk
exposure so confession is our worst case
scenario we would rather an asset
self-destruct or just go dark go dark
meaning they just shut themselves off
from the world and I mean it's still
scary if they shut themselves off in the
world because you don't know who they're
telling what to
but we can control suicide we the
blowback from suicide we can't really
control the blowback from somebody who
confesses
do agents and I don't know if this is
something that you can talk about but
when that happens like the person goes
dark do agents like get me out of here
like is it extraction time usually it's
extraction time is what we would call a
non-emergency extraction
an emergency extraction is like no [ __ ]
black airplanes are going into the sky
with boxes that have oxygen tanks and
you're like getting extracted right
that's we think that that your threat to
life or threat to survival is imminent
so we need you out ASAP right we don't
have time to tell borders and custom
that you're going to be leaving we don't
have time to tell anybody we're just
getting you out
that's an emergency uh x-fill
exfiltration
when we have a non-emergency evacuation
or a non-emergency exfiltration then you
can usually you can go through the
established lines it's a race against
the clock
because the question becomes can you get
across the border
faster than the person who went dark can
turn themselves in submit your name and
the bureaucrat the bureaucracy of the
local police force can get your name to
the border crossing agents right and
sometimes I mean if someone goes dark if
if someone goes dark and you've in 12
hours or less you can get yourself
across the border you're safe right
sometimes it can be three days sometimes
it can be two weeks and sometimes you're
you're on a mission that's so sensitive
that it's actually better to wait until
you see signs that people are coming for
you and then trigger the emergency Expo
whoa right so how so let's say that
moment happens
um do you have like booby traps or
something that you set on the door I
mean this is like straight up movie
stuff are you like paper in the door and
if it falls out you know somebody's been
in like what signs do you look for that
somebody's coming after you yeah so
um I'm gonna stick to the unclassified
version of course
um so generally speaking when you think
that you're under scrutiny what we call
scrutiny or Advanced scrutiny
you are looking first for some sort of
active surveillance because the dude who
lingers too long outside your apartment
if they're if what if they're what we
would call a bumbling surveillance then
yes a bumbling and bumbling surveillance
exists right there's there's different
levels of surveillance
so let's reverse engineer you've got an
asset the asset knows that you are
getting their secrets asset turns you in
well now the question for the local
police force or the local intelligence
service is do we wrap up the person that
we know is collecting Secrets or do we
observe the person who's collecting
secrets to see who else are they
collecting secrets from and who else are
they meeting with to report their
secrets to because now you have the
opportunity to unfold an entire network
it's a very similar problem to what the
police have do you take out one drug
dealer or do you follow the drug dealer
to find you know the larger Kingpin so
the first thing that we do when we
suspect that we might be under scrutiny
is amp up our situational awareness to
observe whether or not we think we're
being observed so yes bumbling
surveillance would be a potential that
you're being observed usually bumbling
surveillance exists
naturally like there are countries where
you just being a tall wealthy white guy
as soon as you walk into that country
there's going to be some bumbling person
who's always like 17 feet behind you
with a newspaper walking around just
keeping an eye on you right for anyone
for any number of reasons
we would expect to see more refined
sophisticated surveillance so we would
look for a team we're trained to see
teams of surveillance foot surveillance
vehicle surveillance we're trained to
know when and how to look for closed
closed television closer to TV and or
aerial drones we know when we can spot
them at the right time to confirm if
they're after us
right and if we see sophisticated
surveillance then we can trigger The
Next Step so that's one way that we
would go about doing it the other thing
we would look for is electronic
signatures that were being
electronically surveilled there are
certain signatures there are certain
behaviors that you can look for in your
cell phone in your computer in your
laptop in your smart TV you know on your
smart devices there's certain things
that you can keep an eye out for that
that demonstrate that you might be
tapped or you might be under any of
those unclassified that you can tell me
about
um
I'm pretty sure that it's unclassified
to talk about
um gaps like delays if you start to see
performance delays in a device that is
performing normally that's a good sign
that it's being it's got an additional
drag on its internal CPU or its internal
memory you're gonna be so paranoid now
so if your smart watch is always working
and then all of a sudden your smartwatch
has this delay It's not catching the
right time it's not catching it's not
connecting the Wi-Fi it's got some kind
of Gap some sort of digital Gap right
that's usually a sign that's something
in the internal unit is draining it of
its processing power when a hack happens
when an information or a data hack
happens they're not usually very clean
and they're not efficient
so they are very energy intensive so for
your watch or for your phone or for your
smart TV to be sending your signal out
to another location
all the time right is going to
constantly fill up it's going to take
all the demand on your RAM that's being
carried in your smart device so when you
see that it's an indicator does that
mean you run and hide not necessarily
it's just an indicator oftentimes we
find indicators as very comfortable
things because if there's an indicator
that we're being surveilled then that
means it's not an indicator that as soon
as we step outside we're going to get
wrapped up into a van
now we have time we have time to get off
the X as long as we don't [ __ ] melt
down right right
so and that's the big thing too when you
see surveillance on your Smartwatch or
surveillance on your smartphone your TV
starts to your smart TV starts to [ __ ]
and then you also see surveillance on
the street guess what every fiber in
your body wants you to do run run and
hit that self-destruct button right just
run I'm out of here as fast as I can
maybe if I get on a tuk-tuk and it takes
me to a local airport and I pay some
local pilot 300 US Dollars she'll just
fly me to Cambodia Maybe
no it's not going to work that way
you're going to get intercepted 15
minutes after you start the Run
like the the way the human brain can
rationalize through a dangerous
situation and come to the wrong
conclusion it's incredible what tools do
you use to keep control of your mind I
can't fathom being a spy and having to
manage my anxiety like that'd be nuts no
way I would not excel at this
so I mean anxiety is a challenge anxiety
is a challenge but I will also tell you
that CIA recruits heavily for people
that have anxiety for people that have
examples that have what so what what are
some of the superpowers about having
anxiety you're paranoid all the time
yeah huge Advantage dude damn I worry
that I would give myself away so here's
what's what the other nice thing about
people with anxiety is that they have a
very real idea of where their true
limits are because their true limits are
tied oftentimes to their level of
comfort
so you're like I would never do these
things you can fathom Espionage because
we've been talking this whole time and
you clearly have a very strong line of
sight into how it works right it's just
psychology you said it yourself so
absolutely you can fathom it so it's
really just a question of whether or not
you have the competency and the skills
to execute it today you might not well
guess what we spend three four five
weeks together even doing just
superficial training and all of a sudden
you're going to be like I think I could
do this like I've got anxiety but I
think I could do this my wife is
deployed all over the world she is
general anxiety disorder
what's it called when you're diagnosed
and she has been medicated for her own
anxiety disorders
she's operated all over the world right
because she learned the skills
another lesson that I think is really
important that the agency gives us
yeah and I apologize if I'm stepping on
your toes in any way step away
people sell confidence right there's
books out there about how to be
confident there's [ __ ] TED talks
about all you got to do is stand like
this and you're going to be confident
right confidence is a perception
not a real thing confidence is how you
perceive your own emotional reaction or
your own emotional relationship with the
environment around you confidence
doesn't exist it can't be measured it
can't be improved or or reduced
confidence is a non-sequitur it's an
empty word
what we mean when we say confidence is
competence
we want competence in what we're doing
because the more competent you are the
more comfortable you are executing right
the more comfortable you are executing
the more comfortable you are taking
risks which is when you take a risk it's
called courage right so there's this
relationship between confidence
competence and courage
that we just because of all the
unethical business owners out there they
just summarize it all as confidence and
they try to sell you some course that
tells it if you look in yourself look at
yourself in the mirror and say you know
you're worth it you're worth it you
deserve to succeed somehow you're going
to have more confidence or if you stand
like this you're going to have more
confidence
confidence is tied directly to
competence if you increase your
knowledge in something you increase your
competence you you are able to give your
uh rational logic side of your brain the
left side of your brain you're able to
give it more accurate information from
which it can use to process a
probability Matrix of your successful
outcome right it's all about making good
decisions another another bill you quote
right it's all about making good
decisions you make good decisions when
you have Superior information you have
Superior information when you have
Superior competence the more competent
you are in a skill the more courageous
you are to take risks revolving around
that skill
that's that's all there is to it so CIA
can take anybody off the street anybody
teach them the competence Mass increase
their competence in the right skills and
then deploy them to execute an operation
they have to be able to do that because
the diversity of the targets that you
need to talk to are as diverse as the
gene pool in the United States sometimes
you need somebody who
is on the Spectrum
sometimes you need somebody who's on the
a
non-neurotypical person to go out there
and execute an operation so you have to
be able to teach them the competent
skills to go do it sometimes you need
somebody who's handicapped sometimes you
need somebody who's obese sometimes you
need somebody who's old sometimes you
need somebody who's
like surprisingly young you need all
sorts of people because the the
individual who executes the operation is
tailored to fit the operation because
they need to get through the public life
and the private life into the Secret
Life as quickly as possible
do you know what stocks and that is yeah
okay so give people a quick primer in in
the context of
that was the moment that I realized oh
there's a whole world happening that I
just didn't realize was real I thought
it was only in movies but like this
whole Espionage game is deep is deep
yeah so and I would love to go more into
that too but so stuxnet quick primer uh
stuxnet was a was a piece of code that
was developed specifically to
interact with what we knew at the time
to be the Software System running
Iranian uranium enrichment
um facilities yeah there was a very
specific tool it was reactor
um no uh oh it's going to come back to
me here the the what is it when
something the centrifuge word that's the
word one whatever game we're playing
so stuxnet was a piece of code that was
designed specifically to interact with
the centrifuge that was used to enrich
uranium and Iranian facilities that's
what it was designed to do it was
deployed it was successful and then
the Iranian facility connected those
centrifuges with the larger internet and
when that happened stuxnet carried out
continued to propagate out of the
Iranian facility and into the entire
Digital Universe so depending on Whose
story you read right now essentially
every digital device that's been
connected to the internet at any point
since like 2007
is infected with stuxnet that's crazy
but stuxnet was so well designed that it
only has a negative effect on B
centrifuge operating system that was
used by the Iranian nuclear facility at
the time
so bananas okay so how deep does a
rabbit hole goal like there's like a
whole battle being fought Ray dalio
talks about the five types of War one of
them is technological
um how deep is that war
the Espionage War the technological War
the Espionage War so let's let's start
with the Espionage War because this is
this is a point that I love making that
not everybody understands right
2016.
the the election where Trump became
president
it became mainstream news that the
Russians were suspected to be
interfering with the election and the
World Went Crazy
right the American people went bananas
FBI Secret Service Facebook had to
change their algorithms Twitter was on
The Chopping Block for for contributing
to Russian covert influence operations
right you remember oh yes why the hell
do we think 2016 was the first time that
happened
why would we think that because we
caught them in 2016
I mean if we caught them in 2016 how
many elections did they influence
successfully before that where we never
caught them and that's just one country
what about China
what about France what about Israel what
about Germany what about Brazil what
about India I mean this there's as many
countries out there there's 160 what 64
I think countries right now
every one of them has something to gain
by influencing the outcome of the
American election why would we think
that nothing ever happened prior to
2016.
why would we think that the president's
we've elected even in just years in
Mayan timeline why do we think Bush was
chosen by the American people why do we
think Obama was chosen by the American
people why do we think these people came
to power of their own independence
uninfluenced no foreign activity
hard work
it's probability wise it's extremely
unprobable like it's it's improbable
that these people came to power and
there wasn't also some country engaging
in covert influence that was
contributing to the outcome of the
election Jesus that's how deep it goes
it's silly for us to think that just
because we see it
that means that it started then it's
like seeing a roach in your apartment
right if you see a roach in your
apartment that's not the only Roach
the walls are disgusting with roaches
right we saw it in 2016. that means it's
been there for a long long time
our why do we think George Washington
became the first president of the United
States because he earned it and the
American people voted for him
France was the reason we won the
American Revolution you don't think that
had something to do with you don't think
France had a say in who became the
leader of the new United States
now I'm not saying that all of our
presidents have been given to us by
foreign powers that's not what I'm
saying but what I am part of the
equation it's a part of the equation and
you can't ignore that part of the
equation right so now we have our entire
political system is constantly in some
embroiled in some sort of battle with
Espionage and that's just our political
system our DOD I don't know how much you
keep up with Espionage news
um Russia has penetrated the Army's
medical Corps
two army officers were arrested just
three months ago whoa recruited spies
recruited by the Russians
yeah we've had nuclear nuclear Naval
Engineers recruited by the Chinese who
have also been arrested in the last
three to four months I heard about that
one like we are heavily penetrated
heavily targeted heavily penetrated by
all the services in the world and there
there's a famous quote out there in the
world of foreign policy that says there
are no permanent friends or enemies just
permanent interests whoa that's good so
why do we think anybody is a friend why
do we think an ally is a friend if you
recall there was a major issue I think
it was two thousand
10 maybe 2011 where the German
Chancellor was notified that the
American NSA was spying on the Germans
wow we have had people go to jail from
our Navy who were recruited and working
as spies for the Israelis what
like this history tells you the story
it's just that nobody really spends time
researching Espionage history so we have
to understand how laughably predictable
are human beings we are so laughably
predictable that we
you and I can predict that people aren't
even aware that arrests are happening
every few months
of spies in the United States in the
military in politics
right in the Department of State in the
Department of Commerce in the White
House like it's not surprising unless
you let yourself be surprised which
again it's a predictable human thing to
just if we don't know about it then it
must not exist
and then it's also
predictably human
to assume that a friend is a friend
there are no permanent friends right
that's there are people from my life 13
to 25 that are not my friend anymore
because our interests diverged
and that's normal and that's natural and
it's also normal and natural to feel
pain when it comes when you outgrow
somebody or when you have to leave
somebody behind because your interests
have diverged and the saddest thing to
me is the people who when they feel that
pain when they feel that dissonance of
leaving behind something from the past
they instead choose to give up on the
ambition and double down on the anchor
yeah getting trapped by these are my
friends I don't want to leave them
behind that's crazy I don't want to
um get off this topic though this is uh
never in a million years did I think
that this kind of thing would interest
me but also never in a million years
that I think that we'd be living through
a transitional moment where the US is a
declining superpower against a rising
superpower in China
um that as of the recording of this
the brics Nations Brazil Russia India
China and South Africa are making moves
to create their own currency to stop
trading in the US dollar so the dollar
hegemony is it's been under attack for a
very very long time so I don't want to
make this a headline that people panic
about but it certainly does feel like
there's there's a lot happening right
now
um that is super unnerving and if it's
got my attention
um which this is really something that
I'm slow to react to but if it's got my
attention I think that it's reaching a
certain level now it could just be
social media makes things like this
visible to even me
um but everybody I talk to Ray dalio who
I pay very very close attention to for
people that don't know him he's runs ran
he just recently sort of retired the
largest hedge fund in the world so
nobody's made more money off of being
right about what's happening in
geopolitics than this guy uh and he he's
like yeah we're we're at the four types
there's five types of war that I
mentioned earlier we're in four of them
with China already the only one we're
not in is an actual Hot War where people
are shooting guns
what's your take on the global stability
right now
oh so unfortunately I would say that the
the world the globe
is fairly stable
the question is what's the foundation of
that stability the foundation for the
stability of the world for a long time
has been the United States
we are seeing that transition just like
you said right it's uh it's that place
where you where you slide the pizza off
the pizza pan and onto the cutting board
right who we've been the pizza pan for a
long time and now it's sliding to
someone else the pizza's still very
stable
but what's the platform what's the
foundation
I am always optimistic
that the United States will recover it
will change its ways we'll find a way to
reunify the incredible by like the
incredible polarity that we're in right
now and get focused on the one true goal
American Primacy
do you think that's possible in a world
where I know you know just saying
American Primacy it like puts you at
risk of being canceled like people just
there there is a contingent I won't even
say how big it is but they're [ __ ]
loud there's a contingent of people and
it could be large that just that's
offensive I understand it I I do I
understand it and that's that's okay I I
hope that doesn't happen on your show
right but it's some of it to be sure no
I'm not worried about it happening to me
I just hope nobody cancels your show um
but uh
but the truth is
um um
American survival is not being
threatened we don't have an existential
threat to the United States
existential threats are the threats that
make people move we talk about
existential threats more likely other
countries talk about existential threats
and then exit what is an existential
threat a true existential threat is a
threat that challenges your very
existence
the existence of the United States is is
contingent upon the existence of the
United States government not Americans
like we sometimes think that Americans
make the United States the United States
is a is a representative republic
government that has never existed before
that now exists so if that government
Falls or if that government cracks or
breaks all the people will still be here
right but America will be gone
so the existential threat to the United
States is the one that would trigger
Americans to react now we've come close
to those moments 9 11 is one of those
times when all America felt awesome for
a hot minute it felt so good the unity
like yeah yeah all of a sudden all of
our differences melted away
right the same thing happened to Pearl
Harbor all of our differences melted
away because we had a common enemy and
we could
individually see the existential threat
posed to our country yeah and our
livelihood
since 9 11 we have not had that kind of
a threat
countries around us have woken up to the
fact just like Emperor uh Hirohito in
World War II said I fear we have woke a
sleeping dragon
our enemies have learned that Americans
are slow to react
but when they react they react in full
force there's no way
a Savvy intelligent
super power competitor GPC Global power
competitor is going to trigger an
existential threat to the United States
because they know that as long as they
basically let us
uh
segment ourselves separately as long as
we insulate ourselves separately we're
going to eat ourselves to death with our
own stupid little bitter squabbles about
American Primacy yeah right or about
woke culture or about representation or
about who knows what we're gonna we're
gonna just waste our time bickering in
our little room and we're not going to
wake up to what's happening in the
entire building
that's the strategy of the future that's
is the keep us divided it's not it's a
an influence campaign is always cheaper
easier and more success and has a higher
probability of success than a military
campaign so an influence campaign is
basically like hey don't forget that you
have race issues hey don't forget that
there's a socioeconomic divide hey don't
forget that the South you tried to
secede from the union one like like just
they're just picking they're just poking
and throwing salt on a wound and then we
are fighting over it right and we fill
our days worrying about this garbage
blind to what's happening on the larger
scale blind the fact that the Fantastic
example is the global war on terrorism
the United States led the global war on
terrorism following 911 right and it
felt good for a hot minute like you said
we were all on the same page and we were
all in this fight then that fight lasted
10 years and then that fight lasted 20
years also it became so dodgy like what
we were like if we had just been
Relentless about Osama Bin Laden that's
like when I heard how we caught him in
like the size of a shadow I don't know
if that's true but like it sounded dope
and I was just like dude we're ninjas
this is amazing yeah but that was after
like a lot of and look I'm I'm not super
engaged in this stuff so I'm definitely
popping off ignorantly but
it did not feel good as a casual
Observer where we ended up going and how
we ended up fighting and all that and it
just seemed like wait what are we doing
right so that felt like a squandered
opportunity well during those 20 years
while we were mastering the art of
hunting terrorism and hunting terrorists
in mountains in Pakistan and Afghanistan
what were our Global power competitors
doing was Russia engaged in the global
war on terror
was China involved in the global war on
terror so all the hundreds of billions
of dollars that we spent in that war
we spent in a war that was a giant
distraction for us that gave our closest
near-pier competitors 20 years to invest
their money and grow to become a larger
threat than we were even aware they were
becoming right and then China all of a
sudden China has multiple aircraft
carriers and they're launching aircraft
from aircraft carriers and they can
project power into the South Asian Seas
that's insane right all of a sudden like
the the Russian Federation is in close
relationships with the Chinese and the
syrians and the North Koreans and the
Iranians how do we just wake up to this
and that's that's what happens it
happens because we are still an
adolescent country
so we get very myopic and we become very
focused on the thing that we're playing
with right now and we lose the larger
site the larger vision
the the world has watched us do this for
too long and they don't make the same
mistake twice especially not
authoritarian countries because
authoritarian countries have the benefit
of authoritarian rulers that sit in an
office or sit in a place in a chair for
15 20 30 years right they don't deal
with the kind of tumult and transition
that we have in the United States I
believe our constant change of
leadership is part of what makes us
strong
but we haven't yet learned how to have a
change in leadership without a change in
focus
that's what we haven't quite learned to
do yet so we're giving our authoritarian
enemies an opportunity to have Focus for
a long period of time against us while
we don't have that against them
okay so why why were we able to be so
strong
and now we're not before you even answer
that question let me frame it for people
and if I go wrong on any of this let me
know but this this to me is goes back to
what I did not expect to be the theme of
this conversation but how hilariously
predictable humans are
so Ray dalio takes a very economic view
of the world and he's like oh hey by the
way what he calls the big cycle is so
predictable that he broke it down into
six phases
and every Empire has gone through these
six phases they last for roughly like
100 to 150 years America is basically at
the end of The 100 year cycle
um and phase six is total collapse War
basically and the old world order falls
apart there is usually a violent war and
then a new world order is established
and
we're like clockwork on the cycle from a
money perspective from a division
perspective like everything just lines
up so you have to have an internal
populace that is divided uh you need to
get yourself over your skis from a debt
perspective which we've done you have to
start printing money like crazy and
there has to be a new superpower on the
rise like it's the the stage is set and
the stage was set in World War II which
is how we became the dominant power to
your point about waking a sleeping
dragon
sleeping Dragon woke up but now uh we're
in trouble so that's my overly
simplistic view of why this worked it
was sort of a fluke uh not a fluke but
it was we we hit the cycle at just the
right moment when the British Empire
collapsed at the end of World War II
um because of our geography we weren't
destroyed by bombs so we come out of the
war pretty much unscathed so we ramp up
all of our production capabilities we
absolutely crush it we help win we
create the nuclear bomb like just a lot
of things come together and so then
we're established as a world Reserve
currency
um
because it's not like we weren't divided
before then but we got to really enjoy
uh a hot minute of prosperity does that
seem like the right breakdown of why we
could overcome our differences
previously and now we can't like how do
you yeah I don't think it's wrong I
don't think it's wrong at all I think
that it's interesting to me because it
sounds like Ray dalio one of the reasons
you respect him so much is because his
analysis is based in economics and he
he's put his money where his mouth is
economics and economists have long been
viewed as the true predictors of future
Prosperity CIA we lean heavily into
economic studies economic experts
economic analysis the law of Economics
because the law of Economics is that of
the law of scarcity
one of the first and most underrated
economists out there was actually a
Soviet Economist a guy named kondratiev
have created what's known as the
chandrati of wave the quadratic
chondrothy of cycle that cycle
essentially puts us it explains the
pattern of Interstate conflict or intra
State conflict where where countries
compete actually go to war with each
other
and and it puts it on about a 25-year
cycle 25 years to a peak in Conflict 25
years to A Drop In conflict and then as
the wave continues like most waves the
actual uh peak of the Waves expands so
it goes from being 25 years to 25 years
to then 32 years to 32 years and you
start to see this longer slower wave
right but it's still a wave it's still a
waveform the next peak of conflict
according to chondroziev's wave against
the United States's point of view
happens in about 2024-2025. oh great
so we now have multiple economists
basically saying that there's a peak
coming a peak of conflict coming and
that Conflict for the chondrozia wave is
a peak of popular conflict and unpopular
conflicts so we're coming off of an
unpopular conflict right Afghanistan and
Iraq largely turned into an unpopular
Conflict at the end right and the wave
between when that started and when the
next wave is coming is right in that
25-year Mark right so according to
congrats you have we are very we are not
only coming up on a period of conflict
but it will be popular
inside the United States so people will
rally behind that conflict that doesn't
mean we're going to win that doesn't
necessarily mean it's going to be in our
best interest but it does mean to your
point earlier that we might see that
moment where everybody kind of comes
together again
I think part of the reason that we were
able to be successful was because of the
same rules of Economics that you laid
out from World War II
our country
hugely unpopular western expansion was
hugely unpopular at the time the Civil
War nobody wants to see the Civil War
again most people would say the Civil
War was a traumatic and horrible you
know loss of life
at the time there was no other option
Abraham Lincoln had no option except to
pursue Civil War because he knew that
the presidents before him had been
working to create a single solitary
nation that had National Security from
coast to coast
we can say it was a fight for states
rights we can say it was a fight for
slavery we can say it was a fight for
lots of things and those are also true
but they may not be the number one
reason why the why the Civil War was so
important the Civil War was so important
because we needed to remain one unified
country from coast to coast to have
American Primacy in the long run
American Primacy is a concept that was
created by Alexander Hamilton really
American privacy is not new there's an
entire Society out there called the
Alexander Hamilton Society that's
focused on preserving the ideals of
Alexander Hamilton and the founding
fathers who all believed that a strong
United States meant a strong world
because they saw and lived through the
oppression of living under a monarchy
right if you look at the top five
wealthiest countries in the world right
now the top five wealthiest countries in
the world
two of them are democracies the other
three are monarchies right
so the idea that democracy is the
solution to all wealth and success
hasn't really been proven yet we're
still outnumbered by monarchies right
so what does the future hold the future
will be will be conflict is coming
multiple economists have pointed to it
you can see the writing on the wall what
my wife and I call the writing on the
wall
conflict is coming what will that
conflict look like is the bigger
question
you talked earlier about how you know
you and I might be of the same ilk when
it comes to are we already engaged in
World War III is world war three coming
up what will that world war look like
there is conflict coming there is no
reason for us to think it will look like
it looked in World War II if anything
conflict has proven to us that it
evolves and changes just like technology
and just like human thinking right but
it's still predictable because it takes
human beings to wage war
I don't think I'm answering your
question very well here but these are
all this is where my brain goes so my
question is do you see this
uh as a a conflict with China does it
become open Warfare is this going to be
over Taiwan like or the Russia Ukraine
thing spills over into something how do
you see this playing out
so my honest my honest anticipation what
I expect will happen is that China will
make a legal move on Taiwan what China
did in Hong Kong was legal first they
changed the laws in Hong Kong they
changed the laws in China which then
changed laws in Hong Kong which made it
legal for them to go in and this and
take Hong Kong by force in 2019 right
before covet hit the whole world watched
and it happened and the whole world
complained and threw a fit and leveraged
sanctions and said it was unfair and
unjust and everything else and then the
Chinese did it anyways and now here it
is 2023 and most people don't even
remember what happened in Hong Kong just
four years ago
now they're watching what's happening in
Ukraine now in Ukraine
some people say that what happened in
Ukraine is that the world rallied behind
Ukraine by giving them weapons and
giving them training and giving them
resources
the most limited resource in Ukraine is
Ukrainian soldiers
it's not tanks or guns or howitzers the
thing that will run out first is
Ukrainian Fighters that's like it's been
it's a shame to me to watch what's
happening because the Ukrainian fighting
force is putting up such a valiant fight
they're doing everything they possibly
can to equip every Warfighter to be
worth 10 20 30 50 Russian Fighters right
but that's their most limited resource
they're not going to be able to create
more Russian fighters in the next three
to five years
you just can't you can't turn a
five-year-old into an 18 year old
so that's the resource that's the the
clock that zielinski knows he's fighting
against he's racing against is not a
clock of fighter jets or or missile
defense systems it's how am I going to
find enough Fighters
and NATO and the West know that they
don't want to put their boots in Ukraine
fighting the Russians because that's all
it would take for the Russians to
basically say hey NATO allies are
killing Russians so now Russia can kill
NATO allies and because Russia is a
nuclear power
they essentially have the same
Pawn like the same trump card that we
had in World War II
so nobody in NATO wants to mess with
that trump card because when you have an
animal cornered yeah it does amazing
things right so what I see happening is
China will make a legal move on Taiwan
what legal play do they have with Taiwan
though they have a number of legal plays
first of all do you know what the
American official American stance is on
Taiwan
something like
um we're we're not going to do anything
but don't like touch them it's so like
bizarrely vague yeah it's called The One
China two systems policy
essentially in the eyes of American
policy Taiwan already belongs to China
interesting so then China also has
acknowledged with Taiwan you have your
own system but you're still part of the
mother country this is Hong Kong 2.0
Hong Kong 2.0 and over the stretch of
like what is it 80 miles from coast to
coast between between Southeastern China
and Taiwan so it's it's sticky man if if
China makes a legislative move that
basically forces the Taiwanese system to
then say you are now communist right
they could have the Legal Foundation to
do that and then a legal attack is very
similar to what they did in Hong Kong
that goes to court systems that doesn't
go to bullets right and then when the
legal system starts to go in their best
interest or in their favor now China has
legal grounds to basically have Chinese
police officers enforce Chinese law
inside Taiwan this whole process what
the hell is the United States going to
do there's no missiles there's no guns
you can drive through the Straits all
you want
it's a legal issue it's not a military
issue
so I anticipate China making a legal
move on Taiwan that will be supported by
key members in the U.N why because how
many of the bricks are in the the
leading countries in the U.N all of them
right if you look at the Ukrainian
conflict now the news media
oversimplifies everything so media says
that the UN passes resolutions that
condemn Russia that's true and the U and
the U.N passes resolutions with a large
majority 140 countries you know condemn
Russia that is also true what they're
not telling you is that the countries
who are not condemning Russia are the
largest wealthiest countries in the U.N
China is not condemning Russia South
Africa is not condemning Russia India is
not condemning Russia right even inside
NATO you have Belgium and Hungary who
are not condemning Russia really so even
NATO is not unified on this whoa right
China's seeing all of this and China's
seeing it for what it really is not for
what American Media is telling the
American people it is the American Media
isn't they're not trying to you know
they're not trying to lead us astray
they're just trying to run a business
they're trying to get people to read
their newspaper click their links see
their ads so that they can have they can
pay their employees the next pay cycle
it's all the media is trying to do it's
not they're not trying to lead us
throwing them down the wrong path so
once there's an administrative Takeover
in Taiwan China has all the rules that
it like all the cover it needs to
basically just shipping to start
shipping National Guard troops uh police
officers even military units over to
Taiwan and now Taiwan belongs to China
in a bloodless War very similar to the
bloodless coups that we've seen multiple
times in places like Thailand or all
over southeast Asia right
that's how I see it happening and I see
it largely happening in the lead up to
the 2024 election because China is going
to benefit from a very confused American
base division during Peak Division and
an electoral cycle wow that's so
distressing because that feels very
plausible
uh uh okay so we have a lot of business
interests there
so what will our reaction be because my
first thought was our reaction will be
oh maybe that's the best way for this to
happen we can be like ah we don't have
to go and commit our American lives to
it uh they did it just like Taiwan or
sorry just like Hong Kong where we'll
you know rant and Rave and say this is a
problem and how dare you and sanctions
But ultimately be glad that we're not
sending people to die but do we have
enough business interests there that
especially in in you know sensitive
areas like chip manufacturing where we
can't let it go our business interests
with China
are significantly bigger than our
business interests with Taiwan wow
Taiwan has the market cornered on
semiconductors but that's not just for
the United States they have the mark
they have like 98 of the market share in
semiconductor manufacturing who designs
the semiconductors
we do we have all the IP they just have
the plants that's why one of the big
initiatives in Biden's chip Act is to
actually bring
tsmc tmsc forget the name of the country
or after the name of the company the
main manufacturer in Taiwan to actually
bring them to the United States so
they're trying to build manufacturing
plants for the Taiwanese company
here in the flyover states in the United
States so that we can just bring that
tool God this is going to be a
fascinating Stateside 10 to 20 year
period absolutely you just nailed it
right there it is going to be a
fascinating decade to two decades in the
future so that's what I want to focus on
that's what I encourage my clients to
focus on it's not about what happens now
or in the next two years it's about what
are you going to do
so that your family your business your
financial Legacy your individual Legacy
is safeguarded
for what the world could look like 10 to
20 years from now the world could look
like the United States is still the
economic and Military superpower it
could look like that so you may not have
to change much
but according to economists by 2033
China will be the economic superpower
that's not far away
if we print money like crazy then we
could not go to zero but like every
other superpower before us you you
really get knocked for six it is not a
minor thing that happens right
and then you lose your ability to print
your way out of things which then you go
into austerity now you look like England
post World War II which hey England's
amazing but they definitely had some
rough years and they're certainly not
the global superpower that we are now
but I've sort of always imagined us
falling into the number two position
where we still maintain some real might
that we have massive influence in other
parts of the world that there will
almost certainly be Parts like Europe
and look they're an economic mess but
Parts like Europe that are going to be
far more aligned most likely certainly
culturally with America than they would
be with China
and so you get
sort of a more like cold worry Vibe
where America's Russia was a huge player
for anybody that's too young to remember
Russia was a beast when I was a kid now
we didn't know that it was a bit of a
paper Tiger but like they really uh they
mattered on the global stage and I
imagine will still matter I think you're
asking yourself the right questions
right
what knowing that humans are laughably
predictable
if China becomes the next Global
superpower what is the laughably
predictable thing that would happen next
right the most predictable outcome is
that China would take the number one
spot we would fall as the number two
spot
who's always everyone's Target
the guy in the lead so right now the
world is Unified that the United States
is Enemy Number One even if there are
allies we're still Enemy Number One you
think NATO likes the United States no
France and Germany have both come out to
say that they don't want the United
States in NATO anymore what absolutely
the chancellor of Germany has said he
wants Germany to have the largest army
in Europe specifically so that they
can't be bossed around anymore by the
United States because everybody's over
dependent on the United States military
huh right the president of France early
in the invasion with Ukraine shut Biden
down and said you are actually you are
exacerbating this conflict with the
rhetoric that you're spitting in Poland
in the United States when you don't even
have the United States isn't even within
the firing range of Russia right right
so France and Germany have had something
to say Biden has been so successful with
his policy in in Poland because Poland
has long had history uh against Russia
so it's a natural like it's a natural
way in Poland already hates Russia and
Poland will take any help it can get
from anybody in NATO and so the United
States comes in and says hey we'll help
you Poland we'll back you up and pull in
back to the United States up but Canada
and France and Russia and Germany and
the UK they have a very different story
there well we have to talk about France
so I was scandalized in my research to
hear you say that when you think about
like the most hardcore uh intelligence
agencies that France of all places is
like brutal the
d-s-g-e-d-g-s-e-s dgse yep uh what's
their stick why France so there's a
couple reasons why France um so one of
the biggest reasons why France is
because in the late 90s
the United States CIA was caught spying
on the French government just like in
the early 2010s we were caught we were
caught spying on the German
government right unlike Germany
France holds a grudge so is France not
spying on us of course they are yeah
yeah of course they are so but it's like
we got caught and so now they get to be
mad no it's more like something changed
prior to the 90s prior to the late 90s
France wasn't so interested in the
United States they were interested in
more direct threats to France well now
in the late 90s there's this giant flap
inside France and now France is like
[ __ ] the Americans right so they start
to dedicate resources to building up in
intelligence service and a skill set
that makes sure that they will never be
penetrated by the Americans again
right the dgse becomes one of the and
Still Remains one of the best funded
most technically capable intelligence
services in the world
why does French why does France have
enough money to put all of their
resources into their intelligence
operations because guess what they don't
have to worry about
military industrial complex because
they're part of NATO and the United
States wants to keep sending weapons and
troops into the European countries so
the United States has basically bought
its influence in NATO
by forcing Europe to prioritize or
giving Europe the opportunity to
prioritize their economic
growth in other avenues besides military
Industrial Development that's why most
of the militaries in Europe are very
weak and very small now there are some
that are modernized which is why
everybody's so excited about Sweden and
Finland coming into NATO but most other
countries are outdated and underfunded
they don't need to be funded because if
something happens in Poland Article 5 of
the NATO alliance means that the United
States military is going to come save
the day so they're okay with that and of
course the United States is okay with
that too because it means there's never
going to be a military competitor in
Northern in the North Atlantic Treaty
Organization
as a result what does get to happen is
those countries can take all the money
that they would spend on military
defense and channel it into intelligence
operations
now when they Channel it into
intelligence operations against China
North Korea Iran terrorism they share
that information back and forth with the
United States selectively and they build
that Alliance but they also spend those
resources spying against the United
States that's so funny and because
France specifically is so well funded
and holds a grudge and is so Adept
specifically at targeting Americans they
have made a huge impact in the space of
Economic and Industrial Espionage
against the United States there there
are if you talk to an intelligence
professional like I'm sure you have
friends in your network and you're like
hey is France really that big a deal you
will hear the same thing over and over
again [ __ ] France wow you will hear
those two words from every intelligence
professional out there because we have
all been bested at some point in time by
the dgse they either stumbled into one
of our cases they false flagged and
pretended to be CIA and recruited NASA
from underneath us or who knows what
right but they know how how to Target
Americans whoa and nobody knows they
even exist it's the perfect kind of
clandestine operation nobody even knows
the threat is there
the way that information Warfare works
leveraging the human animal against
itself I am waking up to a reality that
I've been so focused in my life on my
businesses and my loves and passions and
my wife oh my God that I just I've
totally I'm totally blind all this and
that I have an outdated Vision like I
think of France from the 80s and 90s
when I was a kid and like real made fun
of them exactly they don't even fight
back a hundred percent and so my vision
I'm sure on a lot of these countries is
really skewed in terms of what they
actually think about us because I
remember there was a lot of that
grumbling when the World Trade Center
first not not 911 but in the 90s yeah
when they first bombed it where it was
like uh there are people in the world
that hate Americans I was like say what
like I had
completely you know my own sort of
insulated vision of America and just we
export culture and America's so great
and who wouldn't love democracy yeah
that was the first time I was like whoa
wait a second like people don't actually
want this
and that is so
in recent years I've been reading a lot
about
um totalitarian States uh communism and
like what that really looks like in
practice
and it gets real scary real fast and so
looking at Mao's China which is like the
anybody that wants to have their brain
absolutely melted there are three books
that I recommend that you read where you
can see just how terrifying humans can
be and that is Mao the unknown story The
Untold Story I can never remember the
exact but that the gulag archipelago
about the gulag system in Russia and
then the red famine which is about the
Ukrainian famine uh those three books
will show you that the depths of human
evil like I don't know how like it
that's really really
unbelievable like what went down and
then when I was thinking about China and
it's like
But ultimately like that is born of the
people like that that is the the natural
outcropping now look at me come and go
and maybe it's just born of the people
right now in this moment and maybe that
you know won't last but
who like it it is the system that they
don't overthrow that would be the right
way to say it because they could yeah at
any moment like if the people really
don't want it they could overthrow it
and they don't and so that was the
eye-opening where I was like oh wow like
the rest of the world does not think of
democracy just to keep it simple the way
that I do yeah and
honestly now I'm beginning to wonder if
even kids growing up now think of
democracy the way that I do and if
um demographics are Destiny I get a
little unnerved because I'm
man I don't I I am in the process of
formulating my opinion about this so a
lot of what I have is emotion so going
back to your early things that we are
emotional creatures in the way that we
feel determines what we see
um a lot of the emotion that I have that
I have not solidified into an updated
world view
is I'm very unnerved by the amount of
division in the country and I don't see
knowing what I know about humans I don't
see how we get back on to coming
together without massive suffering now
with enough suffering we will but I
don't see how we'll come back together
without just a tremendous amount of
suffering I I wish I could disagree with
you but I I agree with you I Not only
would it take a tremendous amount of
suffering for us to reunite
but our biggest threats right now are
also aware that as long as we don't
suffer we're not really going to unite
so they can just execute as long as they
can execute cleanly on a consistent
vision
they will because you know what we
cannot do we cannot execute cleanly on a
consistent vision
and we
[Music]
I believe in the American experiment and
I believe that the world is safer with
the United States
being the global superpower
but I also think that the world has the
world hasn't come to that conclusion on
its own
so maybe what we need is a different
Global superpower for a while before the
world is like you know what maybe we
don't like this right maybe we want to
return to another system
God I hope it doesn't come to that I
hope it doesn't come to that either
because I won't you and I won't be here
for that my kids will be um right my
grandkids will be the ones going through
that transition and that's not going to
be a pretty transition
and who knows it's the the thing is that
again
knowing how people work
we are hardwired human beings are wired
to survive we are not wired to thrive
we are wired to survive ouch
yeah the human brain
the whole the processing that goes
between the amygdala and the sensory
codecs and all the different parts of
your left and right brain that help you
reach conclusions they were all built
and they have all evolved around the
idea of individual survival
so whatever happens human beings Will
Survive will adapt and Will Survive we
might suffer along the way but Buddhism
says suffering is part of the experience
right so to avoid suffering is almost
contrary to the in to the faith-based
dominant faith-based uh religions in the
world right Islam Christianity Buddhism
Hinduism they all agree suffering is
unavoidable
but human beings still find a way to
persevere
I would love to not have that happen
but if I was in charge of any country
that didn't want the United States to be
the new Global superpower I would just
let the United States
continue to
pick at its toenails like it does right
now right we're the fat dude in the
corner
picking at our hangnail while the rest
of the world is working out exercising
getting smart and getting ready to go to
go to war right
on that uplifting note
Andrew this was amazing and if we
weren't out of time I would keep going
and going and going I have thoroughly
enjoyed this where can people keep up
with you I've had a blast here Tom too
you can find me anytime at my website
everydayspy.com if you go there it'll
have links to everything else I love it
the most everybody if you haven't
already be sure to subscribe and until
next time my friends be legendary take
care peace
if you want to learn how the future of
our economy will shape up in the next 12
to 18 months check out this interview
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collapsing US Dollars on