Kind: captions
Language: en
the following is a conversation with
Mark Norman a New York comedian who has
a way with words that is often both dark
and hilarious let there be a warning
dear friends to proceed with caution and
to we protection you may in fact need it
he has a special on his YouTube called
out to lunch and a new special on
Netflix as part of the standup season 3
Series I recommend you watch this is Al
Le Freedman podcast to support it please
check out our sponsor answers in the
description and now here's my
conversation with Mark
Norman I asked Tim Dylan about Bowski
first so let me continue on that
tradition and ask you about something
that Charles Bowski said about love are
we rolling yes oh jeez no hello no
nothing no I thought I was
robotic Bukowski said love is a fog that
burns away with the first daylight of
reality so uh Mark Norman let me first
ask you about love uh what are your
thoughts about love you talk about your
relationships quite a bit do you think
love can last I do but I think it's work
everybody wants love to be this
prepackaged perfect euphoric thing but
it you
gotta it's like a a good body you know
we're all born with a good body but you
got to keep it in shape and it's the
same with a a loving relationship I
think you uh nobody wants to do the work
that's the problem you talked about I
think you told a story about being
unfaithful to a previous girlfriend or
something like that I think the story
goes
that you were like drifting apart who
were you talking to Bert Cher maybe or
something like that yeah High School
sweethearts dated for like 12 years and
then so that wasn't love anymore that
was more like relation that was like it
was Comfort it was routine and uh we
just slipped into that kind of married
life autopilot world and uh
I tried to break up I think and it
didn't take was one of those things our
lives were just so baked in and then I
think I uh cheated and she caught me and
it was ugly and then we went to therapy
to try to work it out but it's it's much
like a car that gets into a wreck the
door just never closed the same you know
what I mean yeah so what are your
thoughts about then um commitment like
outside of Love marriage I think it's an
Antiquated idea I think it's kind of
silly and unrealistic
and I think we're coming out of that as
we get all polyamorous and non-binary
and queefy and all this stuff I think
we're slowly moving away from that but
uh I think a lot of the ladies more
majority women like marriage like the
idea of it like I'm in I'm I'm a fiance
now or whatever you call it I'm engaged
and I mean she is just wo going Hog Wild
she's loving it she's got the dress
thing pick a venue flower and she's
she's deep in where I feel guilty cuz
I'm just like ah
jeez is it planned already when the
wedding you see squid game I'm just
living life uh yeah it's it's uh planned
it's in New Orleans I'm from there and
uh it's next
year are you married no single Virgin of
course yeah I can't imagine I bet you'd
be great in bed you're ripped you got
the best hairline in
podcasting yeah I don't know I haven't
tried yet so we'll have to see all right
well let me know pretty big hog on you
yeah I could see you packing a crazy
crazy tool downtown mhm that matters for
the girls apparently yeah that's all I
hear
about okay New Orleans you grew up in
New Orleans yeah born and
raised T outside the French Quarter you
ever been yeah don't remember it oh you
drink yeah I drink of course I drink I
don't know I can't tell if you have fun
no not really but Russ I mean Russian of
course I drink V all that kind of stuff
Russi yeah yeah yes got to know beer was
just labeled an alcoholic beverage in
2011 fun fact what do you mean in Russia
it was just drinks it was just like
apple juice before it finally got
declared legally as an alcoholic
beverage which means you can regulate it
that kind of thing I guess so yeah see
that's where your brain goes yeah I just
go all these fucking ruskies I didn't
even know there's rules about drinking
this is good I'm learning about Russia
from you so um what's the difficult
memory experience from childhood in New
Orleans that uh made you the man you are
today I don't know if it made me the man
but uh gez I had a lot of uh scuffles in
the neighborhood with I was the white
kid in the neighborhood so I was
automatically the odd man out the
minority the weirdo the Dork the dweeb
The Honky so uh just a lot of memories
of like getting slapped in the face by
guys and just having to take it cuz
there's like five guys there and they'd
be like oh look you not even fight back
and you're like what am I going to do
hit you and then get beat up by these
guys so a lot of that stuff was uh big
bummer growing up got robbed all the
time lost a lot of bicycles had a
bicycle taken from under me that was
pretty brutal uh these kids pulled up
you know they're like 17 and I was 13
and I had a face paint on like I had a
not black face but I was at a summer
camp
and I had a a rainbow face painted on me
we were helping kids that day so I let
them put paint on me and uh so now I'm
riding home what a mark what a what a
goober I am I'm riding home and these
guys see me a mile away I'm a Sitting
Duck and they go we can take his bike
he's got a fucking Rainbo on his cheek
so uh they just go hey you like cut in
front of you they go let me try your
bike I go I'm good I'm good I knew what
they wanted and uh they go let me try
the bike and then they just pushed me
and took the bike so stuff like that was
really shaping the insecurity the
selfworth did it uh cuz I've been mugged
when I was younger too really yeah is it
changes your view of human nature a
little bit for sure you go wow I didn't
know people could be this mean is cool
yeah inconsiderate I'm I'm always
worried about did I fart too much am I
annoying am I pissing this guy off but
what a way to live just I want the bike
I'm taking it fuck his feelings for me
that quickly turned into um realizing
that that's just a temporary phase that
those folks are in like they there's
they have a capacity to be good for some
reason for me that was a motivation to
see can we discover can can we
incentivize them to find like a better
path in life like I I wasn't like all
like I don't know Gandhi about it you
know of course I was pissed and all
those kinds of things but I don't know
it
seemed like just the kind of thing you
might do when you're younger you hope
but this is adult crime obviously yeah I
know but yeah exactly and then it
solidifies and then you're beyond saving
at some point but it's like there's
always there's always an opportunity to
uh to make a better uh life for yourself
to to become a better version of
yourself yeah and I remember coming home
crying with no bike and my mom she's my
parents are like liberal to a fault yeah
you know where they were like oh well
they need it they're poor kids in the
neighborhood you're like all right but I
I also like have a bicycle that uh I
ride around you know and I also like to
live in an area that's not just you know
riddled with uh theft and vandalism but
they were like ah they need it and then
it was a it was a moot point we just
moved on so I remember very young being
like all right I gotta figure my shit
out okay so you said you were beat up
quite a bit like bullying and stuff
pushed around I was never hospitalized
or anything but you know you get a black
guy here and there and a bloody nose
stuff like that and it was just the
outnumbered thing the violence didn't
really bother me because you're just
kids you're boys yeah but it was
the predatory let's get him you know we
can take him down he's you know he's an
easy target that's what kills you yeah
the mental
part yeah you know until you actually
said I didn't realize cuz I've been in
what do you call them scuffles mhm and
uh there's just one that stands out to
me where yeah let's hear it fatty bring
it on and you do jiujitsu and all that
stuff right yeah see the guns through
the suit you like John Wick all right uh
well I used to have now you're going to
start making fun of me I used to have
long hair for for like a couple years I
was in a band playing music and stuff
like that and there's um like most of
the fights I've been in were basically
oneon-one maybe a little bit like a
little extra stuff but not outnumbered
and this one particular particular
time I've learned a lot of lessons but
one of them was I there was a fight
started between me and this other person
and then uh his buddies I guess were
there uhoh and they is opposed to like
breaking it up or letting it happen um
one of them grabbed my hair it's the
first time anybody grabbed like used it
my hair in a fight which I've since then
realized that that's actually a really
powerful grip and a powerful weapon oh
very vulnerable of you in my uh head got
pulled back and they pulled me down to
the like I couldn't do anything it was
so I remember being exceptionally
frustrated yes like that was the feeling
like I can't do anything here I'm like
trapped and then they they were just
like kicking me and hitting me and stuff
like that and the outnumbered part of it
um cuz I always kind of remember the
trapped part because I just hated from a
fighting grappling
perspective how like like the feeling
was this isn't fair yes that's what it
is it's a deep deep unfairness yeah that
you just can't you can't win the mob
wins yeah the mob wins scary stuff and
but it makes a makes a man out of you in
a weird way that it builds character you
realize life isn't fair early and you
you go on from there so there's
something there and look at you today
they're probably uh you know eating out
of a dumpster at a Crispy Cream and
you're here got eight podcast you you're
doing great you're talking to Giant
Titans of the industry no I I I do
remember returning home that night I
mean that you said you were crying
that's really formative like oh yeah
that's the point in which you get to
decide what do I make of this moment I
mean especially when you're younger
maybe it's not presented to you that way
but like some of the greatest people in
history were bullied in these kinds of
ways and they made something of
themselves In This Moment Like bullied
by life in some kind of way it's it's
like an opportunity for growth it's um
it's weird but like hardship even in
small doses is like an opportunity for
growth totally I mean look at Richard
PRI they say he's labeled as the Best
comedian of all time grew up in a horror
house watch his mom get plowed by these
guys and in the middle of Indiana I want
to say and just who had a harder life he
would suck dick for drugs all this stuff
growing up beat
up and uh then the weird thing is oops
sorry that's my birth control alarm and
then the uh the whole world is like
trying to get rid of bullying but we
still do bullying but now it's accepted
bullying it's very strange so you're uh
you're proponent of beating kids up is
that what you say yes and sex with them
all right but no uh I just think it's
part of life and it's horrible it it's
like rain you got to have it look a
rainy day is a bummer you know but you
need it and uh I think it's similar to
that what was your relationship like
with your uh your mom your dad what are
some memorable moments with them what
did you learn from them good parents the
giving thoughtful
uh a little out to lunch you know they
were Workaholics so there was it was
hard to get a lot out of them and my dad
was kind of an angry Dad I think he just
had like a weird childhood and he's just
trying to make it he's trying to provide
but it's hard and we live in this
horrible neighborhood and we're getting
robbed all the
time um so life was kind of coming down
on him all the time so then he'll take
it out on you or whoever he would snap
but great parents they cared they put us
first um but there wasn't a lot
of I don't you see you know you ever go
to a friend's house as a kid and there's
like a picture of a ski trip and you're
like ski trip what the hell is that
about you know it wasn't out of that
and smart very smart people but I don't
know how well they were at uh
socializing so you never like bonded
with them like on a deep human level
some Bonnie but rarely deep yeah it was
just almost coworker hey cold out huh
what it's cold out huh oh yeah like that
kind of stuff yeah yeah gotta get there
a little bit but it my parents would I
hope they never hear this but they would
do a thing where my dad especially would
do a thing where he would uh he knew how
to cut you down right to the Bone and so
after a while you're like I'm not even
going to interact with this guy cuz he
he can get you so well one time we were
at a like a Thanksgiving some kind of
family of event and all the cousins are
there and I remember I was holding Court
I was a young boy finding my comedic
legs in this weird tumultuous sea we
call a family and I was killing and um
my dad comes up when he goes what are
you holding court and I was like ah and
I felt like I was this big I just shrunk
down he just nailed it cuz in my head
I'm like I'm holding CT look at me I got
the whole room and he goes what are you
what are you holding cord here like who
the hell do you think you are and I was
like he's right I shouldn't be holding C
who the fuck am I I'm nobody so uh stuff
like that was he aware of that you think
he was he wasn't I don't think he was
but do do you give um parents a pass
when they're unaware of the destructive
like is it better when they're unaware
because it seems like that's the way
that's true that's way the way parents
often fail is they're not intentionally
malevolent MH they're just like Clueless
yeah it's a Bittersweet thing cuz you're
like well okay he's not malicious he's
not trying to hurt me but
also he doesn't know he hurt me I I
don't know it's it's tough cuz if he was
trying to hurt you I guess that would be
worse so you're the fully baked Mark
Norman cake at this point uh what yeah
it's a shitty cake do you uh fruit salad
you know the sense of self-worth you
mentioned I think in your comedy there's
a sense like you hate yourself you think
when I listen I didn't know if that came
through shit I was trying to hide that
part God damn it I mean when you you
like in the privacy of your
mind are you able to love yourself or is
it mostly
self-hate geez what happened to this
podcast I didn't know I was on Mr or Dr
Phil Dr Phil I thought we were GNA talk
about engineering and and climate change
and Rockets uh we'll get there okay
starts with love goes to Rockets all
right I like that I like that's a
t-shirt
um I mean like what's question
sorry do I feel love no no like I myself
yeah yeah yeah so are you
um like this engine of being
self-critical of just being constantly
anxious about how the world perceives
you these kinds of things is this
something that you just go to for for
comedy or is this who you are as a human
being I think I I don't want to explore
it I think I get around it you know I
tap dance around it but I get it out a
little with my ACT maybe CU I I can't do
it I'm not doing it in real life so I'll
get out this uh no love not loving
myself I don't know who wants to love
themsel everybody always like you got to
love yourself and then when you meet
somebody who does love yourself you're
like I fucking hate this guy don't you
hate the guy who's upset I'm great I'm
awesome life is good like ah this guy
sucks I'd rather an insecure guy so
maybe I want to stay insecure maybe I
don't want to find this love for myself
well okay so self love like just
appreciating who you are or like
appreciating the moment of being
grateful doesn't have to express Itself
by the guy saying I'm awesome true it's
more just like humility just like
walking calmly through the world and
just being grateful to be alive that
kind of thing and just good and like
being appreciative of all the
accomplishments you made so far I say
all this because mostly I'm extremely
self-critical in everything I do and
so uh and I kind of enjoy it I think
it's a nice little engine that it makes
it fun it makes life fun because it's
like if if you hate everything you
do like you've done in the past that
gives you like all right we can do
better yes but that's the key is making
it s critical always trying to get
better I could change this I could tweak
this I can improve this when you just go
I hate that I do this I suck you just
shut down so that's the key is is always
being productive with the uh with the
criticism yeah and the basics of life
I'm just like grateful for it to be
alive that's nice to be couple like
couple that with uh two leg criticism
skin the hairline the hog the muscles
the the the the world you got a good
brain on you I mean you're you're lucky
you're in the top you know most people
are fat as shit at Burger King right now
hitting their kids yeah you're in a in a
rata hotel sitting with the you know a
low-level comedian for the record I ate
McDonald's last night oh all right well
you're human well just so you know this
is not me defending I'm not sponsored by
McDonald's but I mostly eat meat and
there's nothing wrong with with the the
beef they have it's actually one of the
easiest ways late at night I think it's
horse I don't know if it's actually it's
actually rats yeah you're right but hey
it's just meat I'm a meat guy myself uh
they say in 20 years we're going to look
back and go H can you believe people ate
meat it's somebody like
slavery yeah there's some ethical
difficult things with uh factory farming
yeah so let's ride it out now while we
still got
it and now it's on
record Tom weights says something about
New York you like Tom weights I think
he's underrated I think he's got great
he's got a great uh he's great at quips
and quotes he's check him out on on
YouTube he's got some montages and Super
Cuts of him being hilarious what does he
say about
um I'd rather have a bottle in front of
me than a frontal of bottomy that was
the one that was the one that sold me I
was like this guy's awesome yeah but his
music is he's just a genius musician
yeah anyway he was talking about New
York and I was walking around these I'm
in New York right now we're in New York
right now it's still a magical City to
me a lot of people are quite cynical
about it about the state of things
but not not like Michael mice like a lot
of friends of mine they're just a lot of
folks I mean San Francisco New York
there's something about the pandemic
where people have become quite cynical
about the place they are and they tried
to escape it's interesting I mean
they're asking some difficult questions
about what they are in life they're
having like a self-imposed midlife
crisis is is is good I think for
everybody to go through this process but
I think I hope New York
reemerges it will as the flourishing
place for the weirdos anyway the Tom
Wade said New York of course is to be in
Endless surreal
situations where a $50,000 gunmetal
Mercedes pulls up in a puddle of blood
and out steps a 25 karat blond with a $2
wristwatch and he goes he keeps going on
so like it's like um that's like bars
he's like a rapper yeah yeah he's good
um but basically just the absurdity of
it all lots of money lots of
weirdos uh degenerates and dreamers and
the whole the whole mix of it do you
think um you think that's an accurate
description of what New York is today
like is there still place for the
weirdos and just the interesting
artists the the edgy The Comedians the
the Creator
the the the the entrepreneurs like as
opposed to like Wall Street as opposed
to like Rich folk and then like hopeless
folk yeah I think it's definitely
changed a lot there's a there's a tiny
corner for us weirdo artists New York
used to be where you went to make it as
a painter or whatever a comedian or a
singer and there were all these Dives
and shit boxes and all these places you
could go and now there's now it's more
pink berries and Subway sandwiches and
Chase Banks so it's definitely lost a
lot of its uh Creative Edge it's just
money money keeps coming in and now you
see all these comedians move to
Nashville Austin Denver whatever so uh
it doesn't have the the power it used to
have of like you got to be here if you
want to make it that's definitely gone
uh so that hurt the city a lot the city
is is way more soulless when I moved
here in ' 07 I mean not only did I get
mugged three times in the first year but
it was a hub of like it felt like things
were happening here you know it was it
was an energy it was electricity and we
still have the electricity but it's also
maybe just because there's Time Square
there's Soho there's uh Wall Street so
we got the Staples but there is a little
bit of that it's almost like a marriage
like yeah we're in love but it it's not
as passionate as it once was that's how
I would equate New York what gives you
hope you're pretty hopeful about it
though I'm hopeful just because I know
it's magical and I and I think it has to
be I mean it's the epicenter of America
like this is where the immigrants came
and this is where the stock market is
and the entertainment industry a lot of
it is here so I think it it's it's G to
happen but it all something like the
bottom has to fall out and then people
have to move back here and all that so
something the corporations are kind of
fucking us they're just buying
everything well that's true for
everything that's true for it's true for
Austin probably as well people are just
buying out land and all that kind of
stuff you always hear a Hemingway and do
Le and all these guys went to Paris in
the 20s or whatever that was yeah I get
it now I used be like why these guys go
to Paris you know why are these artists
and now I get it because it's like it's
Freer there that's why Austin became
like that Paris where everybody's like I
got to get out of La I'm going there and
uh but we came back from that you know
the 70s were wild and 90s were cool so
maybe it'll come back might just take a
decade well there's always that's how
stories are told there's always pockets
of like Paris within New York right of
there's just an opportunity to let your
weird flourish is there in New York I'm
sure they I mean
um it's there you got to find it before
it was front and center what's your
favorite thing about New York like what
what kind of things just like I mean how
long as it's pod I could go on it's just
it's too much to to put into one hour we
got other questions but I love that one
neighborhood is wildly different than
the next I'm in Little Italy and then
you take four steps now I'm in Chinatown
I mean and then the history there and
then the stories and the food and the
culture and all that and then you go 10
feet over here now you're in Brooklyn
and this is insane it's the whole
another world and it's it's almost like
a little America in
one you know uh City and it's great and
uh just the fact that they pulled it off
like Fifth Avenue goes way up and you're
like there's a Billionaire's house next
to a hobo and then this is a black guy
who's who's fighting with a Cuban guy
and an Asian guy is uh trying to get in
the middle of them and the cabbies from
uh the Middle East and there's so many
beautiful women here and there's so many
Brilliant Minds here and and the pace is
great it keeps people moving I mean it
just you can't beat it I mean the city
will fuck you in the ass too don't get
me wrong you land at JFK and you're like
oh God I got mugged my uh my Uber driver
called me a homo I stepped in and human
shit where the fuck am I um so yeah it's
it's bad news but that bad news it's
almost like the bullying it kills you in
a weird way but it makes you stronger
you build more layers and layers and
layers that's why some new guy some hay
seed from Milwaukee shows up you've been
here 10 years and you go let me let me
help you out because you're you you got
ajust you're going to get your ass
kicked for like six months but I know
the rope's a little and uh I think you
need a little that if the treadmill is
not on
you're not going to run New York the
treadmills on so it just makes you run
and it makes you better and look it
wears on you you probably lose 10 years
of your life living in New York versus
uh you know Indianapolis but it's a you
know it's a better life have you seen
25th
hour been a while um Spike Le joint yeah
Spike Le joint I mean uh at Norton
there's a there's a whole like monologue
there about New York oh that's right
they're talking
about just he he has a like a mix it's
there's like Melancholy music I think or
just a Melancholy feel to the whole
thing but there's an anger and a disgust
with the city but through the anger and
the disgust comes out like a a love for
the city same with was taxi driver in
New York oh yeah SC c yeah so like that
there's something about what is that
what is that that that uh grit of the
city that like pushes you down well
that's the beauty of the city is it's
this tribe
human nature like the sex shops and fist
fights and racism and all tension but
yet it's the epicenter of technology and
finance and sophistication on Fifth
Avenue so you get that ju Bish it's kind
of like in Boston you go to Boston they
got MIT they got Harvard they got all
this shit and then they got the
fisherman the blue collar douchebags the
Irish guys the immigrants you know and
you get that mix of like insanely smart
with Wicked piss and these these two
worlds and that's that's a good thing
it's like when a black guy fucks an
Asian lady that's a good-look kid you
get a mix you know we're mixing two
totally different things are coming
together and it makes it it's like
peanut butter and chocolate peanut
butter and chocolate I've never tried
that what peanut butter maybe I have
about talking about Reese's man like
Reese's yeah and yeah yeah oh it's the
best candy
yeah without the fakeness of La without
the without the kind of um um with the
facade yeah la is
tough what's the difference between LA
comedy and New York comedy
too I think one place you kind of go to
make it and be discovered and be loved
and one place you go you can you can get
all that in New York too but I think in
New York it's more of a a school a boot
camp of Comedy let's make great comedy
let's make original comedy let's watch
the other guys and gals who are at the
show at the clubs and learn from them
and try to hang out with them and and
absorb some of them and in La it's like
when am I on I'm next get out of my way
I'm the star here I'm a bigger star than
you oh this guy's actually a big star I
gotta outwork you know it's a lot of
that instead of like damn that was funny
I gotta be that funny damn I wish I had
a joke and look I don't want to speak
for La Comics because there you know
Bill Burr Anthony jck the brilliant La
comic but they all cut their teeth in
New York just saying then they moved to
LA it's a good point Ali Wong all these
people Killer Comics but New York
started New York moved to New York there
is something about Comics just stay in
New York for a long time though like
Dave AEL ah you know about Dave yeah
yeah he wants to do this podast he does
yeah I'm a huge fan of David but it's
like he almost like he doesn't want to
make it I don't know I mean you probably
know him but like it feels like you
just maybe it's romanticizing it but
you're you're like you almost just love
the art of comedy of like becoming
funnier crafting the jokes becoming
funnier than the other Comics like
competing with each other kind of thing
not over like money or fame or any of
that just just purely The Comedy of it
totally that's Dave that's him in a nut
he's like that guy in the movies in the
80s action movies where they're like
they go up to a a Creek in Montana and
some guy's living in a cabin and he's
sharpening a stick and they go the
Russians are coming they're invading we
need you you're the best Commando and
he's like like I gave that up man I'm
done with that lifestyle they're like
but you're the best we need you and he
has to suit up eventually you know he
looks at a picture of his dead wife and
he goes fuck it I'm going and then they
you know fight the rookies but uh he's
that guy he just is gifted he's like got
a gift from Allah and he's the best yeah
a lot of comics give him props it's
always surprising to me I didn't CU
surprising to me because he hasn't
really made it like big he he did in the
90s he was huge he had his own TV show
he was the yeah yeah that show was that
show was awesome but I mean like as big
as I think he deserves to be so like
well that's art the mainstream shit is
always the worst it's like McDonald's
versus some hole in the wall I know I'm
shitting on McDonald's again but it's
good and you know certain Comics we can
name are good but the the delicacy is
going to be
less talked about and less uh household
Namy than than the
mainstream hacky shit yeah it's funny
because he hasn't uh I think he was on
uh Joe rugan show once maybe yeah once
or twice and and he was with somebody
else um Jeff Ross yeah he might he might
have Jeff Ross oh yeah cuz they did that
like two mics thing whatever mics yeah
yeah um but he's the quickest guy
there's no one funnier yeah yeah yeah
him and uh you you're super quick your
appearance on recent appearance on Rog
was hilarious oh thanks just so fast
you're on with
Arian Shen Gillis Shen Gillis yeah that
was fun we're going back in January I
don't know when this comes out this is
never come
out neither will
you we're having fun yep all right so
what does it feel like um to bomb in
standup comedy like to fail maybe the
psychology of it first like just take me
through it cuz we're talking about being
uh outnumbered in a fight just being
beat up very
similar uh by the way this is like a no
eye contact off yeah you know both
uncomfortable it's great it's kind of
nice to be with my
people um but yeah you sh a paper to
look at or I'm going I got a good sweet
spot right there yes yeah it's a it's a
nightmare but it's part of it you know
it's it's it's the it's the validation
too is the worst part like cuz you know
whenever you do comedy and kill you can
be a great comic but even David tell
these brilliant guys they feel like
they're getting you feel like you're
getting away with something I don't have
a day job I'm telling jokes for a liit
I'm talking about my dick up here and
they're fucking loving me and they call
me a genius and all this I'm talking
about my sack you know and uh and it's
great it makes people happy and it's
funny but uh that bombing when you bomb
you go your first thought is like yeah
you're right at first you're like fuck
you gu what you don't like this shit and
then you just start going in you're like
n maybe it isn't that good maybe they're
right I do suck I knew I sucked should
become a mailman you know and it stinks
and it feel you feel alone and you feel
like you wasted their time and then
you're like what was I thinking I could
be a comedian what the fuck who am I you
know Eddie Murphy what am I doing here
so uh it's a lot of just spiraling out
of horrible thoughts but I also love
that it hurts so bad bombing fucking
hurts because now now everybody doesn't
do it I think a lot more people could do
comedy probably and figure it out but
the bombing is so brutal that it keeps
uh one time I went to Minneapolis I was
like this is a great City I me sun and
shine why isn't this city like packed
and they're like because the winners are
so bad and we love it because it keeps
everybody out and I feel like the same
about comedy the bombs are so brutal
I've had bombs where I'm in I'm in bed
I'm just staring at the ceiling like
what the fuck was that like you have
PTSD I bombed at an arena once 20,000
people I did 30 minutes to silence I so
it's not just like one joke fails it's
like oh yeah they start piling on like
it's recoverable yes and one joke
failing is very common like a lot of
audience don't even notice like that
bomb because you get you know you got so
many jokes in a row you can sandwich a
good one then a bad one then a good one
but when you bomb it's almost like they
chose we don't like you nothing you say
will redeem yourself and uh it's hard to
get out of it's like being pulled down
by your hair you can't get back I can't
win this fight no matter what can you
like get him back by acknowledging like
the in the room that like that helps but
there're still going to go that was
funny when he made fun of it but he
sucks he still sucks he still sucks
that's the worst part you're going no
this is good you guys just don't like me
just because you don't like me doesn't
mean I'm bad yeah I I like going to open
mics a lot just just listening
because first of all I think the
audience in Open Mic at least the ones
I've been to is U mostly I guess other
comedians it it or like at least people
who don't seem to want to laugh at
anything and so I just love it cuz it's
human nature and perseverance at its
best the here's comedians like
clearly uh this is mostly in Austin they
have a dream like why would you get up
there right like maybe some weird you
know New Year's resolution bullshit but
for the most part it's people who want
to be comedian like a lot of the open
micers are people who clearly have done
this for quite a long time already like
at least a year or two maybe five years
and they're often not very funny
and
um the just bombing in front of an
audience of like 20 where they're just
sitting there like almost like mocking
them with their eyes or maybe and I
don't know and they still push through
they still they still like as if they're
doing an arena and everybody's laughing
they still they still got that energy
trying almost like to an
audience that doesn't exist
like an audience of their dreams cuz I
guess you have to do that to keep the
energy of the ACT going and it's just so
beautiful to watch wow them try it it's
uh and also the what happens Open Mic I
don't know five minutes whatever they do
they you know walk off and that walk
back you know off stage Nightmare and
like you can't what who do they look at
like what do you look do you make eye
contact with people do you you look at
your phone you look at your feet you you
just zone out you kind
of you kind of go white you know you
just hear white noise and go out it's
it's
tough but you got it you need a little a
a little delusion to be a comedian to
get into it it takes a little bit of
delusion like you think you can do this
you know you got 10 years ahead of you
of hell and you're up for this and you
know most Comics we see a horrible crowd
and we see our friend bomb and we go
yeah he's bombing but I'll get him I'll
get him and then you you don't get them
but that's that's human nature too is
like I they don't like him but they'll
like me and you need a little of that to
keep going as a comedian but you don't
want too much delusion because then
you're a psycho but you need a little
well the psycho could be good for a
comedy that's true too lot of psychos I
mentioned to you offline um that I
talked to Elon and we talked about doing
standup that he's thinking maybe do a
few minutes of stand up saying if you
need a coach Elon I got
you uh well maybe you should move to
Austin to coaching fulltime ah hopefully
you can fly him in
so what what advice would you give to
somebody who um who wants to try to do
five minutes like the early
steps of uh trying to go to an open mic
and say something funny well that's the
irony of Comedy is I don't know if it's
irony but it's like the beginning is the
hardest part usually the beginning is
the easy part hey I'm playing this level
of Mario I start I jump over one Koopa
Troopa whatever and then the end is like
Jesus Christ I got 30 guys coming at me
comedy is the opposite the beginning is
like it's a gauntlet it's just obstacles
and it's like you said open mics you I
watch these famous comedians on Netflix
and you go this would all bomb an open
mic they're killing in you know Radio
City those bombing it open mik that's
the weird part so it's almost you have
to go through hell just to get to the
the promised land and uh I would say
rehearse the shit out of it because
you're going to get frazzled up there
everybody thinks oh this this is good
material but you also forget about the
other part of delivering it having
confidence being likable having timing
having a Cadence figuring out who you
are figure out what the audience thinks
you are or how they perceive you because
you can go up there and say all this but
they go why is the guy he's clearly gay
why is he acting like he's not gay you
know that's all they now they're not
listening to the joke so like you got to
know how you look and uh it's just
repetition repetition and bombing is not
failure that's what you got to remember
I mean look if you if you do a a killer
hour and then you take it to Netflix and
bomb you fucked up but bombing is not
failure it's just data it's going ah
okay I gotta re retool that that didn't
work something wrong there they I missed
a word there so you got to treat the uh
the ACT almost like uh like uh like
ingredients in a in a in a cooking in a
dish you know like oh that I put too
many eggs in take an egg out you got to
treat it like that and look when you
pull a a bad cake out of an oven you go
I fucked up but it doesn't hurt your
feelings but when you bomb and fuck up
it hurts your feelings so you got to
factor that in too your feelings going
to be hurt and just almost be a robot
and just keep going towards that open
mic you know how scary an open mic is
bombing sucks but bombing in front of
other comedians is way worse because
they know what just happened and they
could have saved you and they didn't so
it's way worse and that they're going to
be your quote unquote friends for this
for this journey yeah no these are evil
people Twisted fucked up hurt people can
you tell like in those early days let's
just talk about that like at the open
mic level that a joke is going to be
good on paper like I I'll give you my
experience cuz
uh um maybe you can be my coach in this
particular moment so uh Like Larry
Nasser all
right that's fun huh joking everybody I
hope nobody takes it seriously uh
there's I now have an amazing team of uh
of folks who help me with editing and
they're now currently sweating watch
this you got to leave that one in that
was quick yeah that's pretty good I'll
eat that one that was
good all right
so uh you know uh going in front of an
audience just even to give a lecture
terrifies me uh which which I've done
but uh Open Mic I mean that to me
perhaps that's why I like going to open
mics and listening is because I just it
terrifies me so much that idea yeah of
going up there and bombing I mean it's
scary and to do even like one minute to
be honest is scary and five minutes I'm
also watched enough open mics to realize
that five minutes is a long time I mean
depends on your comedy but if you're
doing fast stuff five minutes is a
really long time oh it's eternity um I
guess it was a long
story too is a long time because if the
story is not work you're building up to
something if the story is going to fail
you just spent all that time telling the
story that completely went flat
completely got nothing I guess if you
have a series of jokes you can at least
try to recover and like do the Mitch
Hedberg thing where like all right I'll
cross that
off uh well I'm able to like I've tried
to write a few things and I'm able to
tell that it's really
bad well that's better than most most
people's egos kick in they go no this is
good no see I'm able to introspect that
like it seems funny I mean I guess the
thing I'm looking for is original like
there's easy stuff that you think it's
funny but to me originality is the thing
you should be looking for because then
because then that's what's actually
becomes funny like or rather if it's
original even if it bombs that feels
like more a beautiful art creation that
you did like at least you swung for it
like you did something unique cuz there
like even with Open Mic your first 5
minutes there's so many just go to
enough open mics you'll hear like all
the there's like a list of jokes that
you can just go to first of all you can
make fun of the fact that you're an open
mic that you're like doing this for the
first time and so on you could do a lot
of stuff where you make fun of your
appearance in some way and so on but
like yeah you could do that you know
that takes actually that's way harder
than people real Iz to do it in an
original way yes to to present who you
are as a
person very quickly enough to then put
that person down in front of everybody
else so you have to reveal the H just
like that because they go he knows what
we're thinking yeah exactly um but do it
again in an original way and so like
when I'm trying to write stuff uh when
not that I've tried long it's like 30
minutes but as enough to see like oh
shit the to write something original is
really difficult it is what do you you
got a bit anything no you didn't write
any one line or anything for this no
well just in general ever in your life
ever written a joke oh yeah yeah yeah
yeah yeah oh okay no but I don't have
anything in my mind popped up so the the
the jokes that I've written have more to
like for some reason my mind goes to
like dark places so you know like and
not actually dark in the Mark Norman
dark because you go really dark to where
it's like almost absurd yes my natural
inclination is to go to like a dark
historical like place like Hitler and
Stalin yeah and almost so go to that
place and
then talk about something absurd there
mhm so like don't go like
um like all the way I don't know don't
want to give examples because it'll be
clipped but the but the Mark Norman
style look it up he has a special on his
YouTube uh that kind I I want to almost
explore the dark aspects of human nature
more kind of um connected to actual
historical figures that's the that's the
inclination like uh I don't know
Nature's metal the the Instagram channel
that that explores like the darkness of
nature like like something there uh that
see that's good that you already know
that you've kind of gotten to the core
of your comedy already and that that's
interesting that's a step ahead yeah I
can hear I with most things that I do in
life I can like hear the music from a
distance like in myself like okay if you
have anything this is the direction
it'll be without actually knowing
exactly all the steps and that's a nice
motivation to be like all right well if
you do this for a long time maybe you'll
have a chance to get there right but you
have to I that that's where the it's a
feature to be super self-critical I
think yes but then that's why it's
fucking terrifying to walk up to a stage
stand there and probably forget
everything yeah that's the other part
nobody thinks about just goes right out
of your head you go fight or flight it's
ugly my my first years were horrific
bombing horrific stammering horrific not
remembering the punchline like you got
maybe you got a a setup going and
they're kind of on board and you're like
ah how that I can't I camer how it goes
and you just hate yourself it's it's a
nightmare but you've already kind of
maybe if you haven't done standup or
whatever but you kind of know your voice
and that's yeah that's pretty Advanced
so you're not trying to be somebody else
I guess yeah just for having done like
podcast and lecture and so that helps
you I've embarrassed I've already done
some of the work of the stand-ups do
which is embarrass yourself in front of
others for prolonged periods of time yes
yeah so I've done that without actually
developing the funny right right but
maybe the funny just is not that
difficult to develop um no it's super
difficult of course but I mean maybe the
essential work of a standup comedian is
just the embarrassment of like finding
who you are yeah that's a part of it for
sure you know in the beginning you're
like water bottle what's funny about
water bottle I'm a funny guy I can make
this funny but that ain't that's not it
you know it's it's your shit your shit
like your dark stuff for me I tend to
gravitate towards dark but in a weird
way where you know people say like hey
don't objectify women but then they go
Caitlyn Jenner's beautiful
and you're like well wait I know
something's off here why can you
objectify her but not the supermodel so
what's going on there and I like to play
with that so I have this joke where I
say uh Caitlyn
Jenner oh oh women go Caitlin Jenner's
beautiful beautiful woman I go well you
look like her and they go fuck you and
you're like there's a lot of Truth there
but I like exploring that kind of oh
you're trying to get one over on me or
you're lying to yourself or what are we
doing here and I like I like that kind
of
Comedy I don't see color well I'm black
no you're not ah you know that's fun cuz
you're you're
lying uh yeah okay so like big- time
comedians it's just yourself don't like
to think of yourself in this way but
here we go yeah this is like where you
over philos philosophize comedy but yeah
definitely it seems like
comedians don't say important nothing
worse than a thinks they're important
yeah so I was going there I was trying
to find as I was trying to say these
words I realized how cliche it is and
how uninteresting it is so I'm going to
just but there is something uh I'm
worried this whole thing is
uninteresting I'm like who cares about
comedy there's like six comics on the
planet that nobody cares okay this is I
trust you in the in the piloty you know
what you're doing you got you got
listeners they've tuned out long ago oh
we get Dan Carlin on here huh is he
around yeah yeah which going back and
forth on Twitter just now I'm a huge fan
he was on here before he'll be back
great I've been actually really uh
trying to volunteer myself aggressively
with Dan Carlin for for like a Russian
episode where I could speak Russian I
there there's there's certain documents
same I talked with ja about this too
certain
things I mean I just love the challenge
of bringing Russian documents that I can
read in Russian and then can translate
and can try to capture the uh the depth
of the writing in um in the Russian
language and communicate to an American
audience so much is lost and translation
like there's so much pain and poetry in
the Russian language it's just connected
to the culture every language not every
language but many languages are uniquely
able to capture the culture of the
people I mean in some way there the
representation of the culture of the
people and so Russian is definitely that
like represents the full history and
culture of the 20th century with all the
atrocities all the all the broken
promises all those kinds of things Norm
says Uh Russian literature is it's the
most tapped into human existence than
anything else uh Norm McDonald yeah big
big Russian literature guy dooi all that
shit it's funny that there is a gap with
comedians too there's a culture of
Russian comedy uh like standup comedians
that are totally yeah yeah I don't know
these Russians I mean uh I don't know
today I mean more from the ' 80s and
'90s and so there was a yak off that's
all I know that's not so there's like of
course that's that's I've never seen
that offended no no no it's not offend
there's a different
uh uh there's there's a there's like the
Kennison and the there's the edgy is
that
Russian what what do you mean wait I
thought you said there was Russian
Comics yeah Russian com I mean I'm
comparing I'm I'm giving you I'm giving
you like a style a Darkness uh like
that's the kind the people that kind of
challenge uh they they give again this
is to how important comedians are is
they give a voice to people where in the
Soviet Union you really can't like
express your opposition to the
government and so comedians are
exceptionally important there for just
just I don't know channeling the anger
even when sometimes it's not act
opposition to the government they're
just channeling the anger the
frustration with the absurdity of life
like you know when there's a shortage of
food shortage of jobs the the the
absurdity of the bureaucracy like the a
topheavy government just all of that can
only sometimes be expressed with like
dark absurd humor and that actually why
there's a culture of that kind of humor
you know you gather on the table with
VOD
yeah and all you can do is just talk
shit and just be offensive say horrible
shit ball bust I mean scho I make school
shooting jokes and people go how do you
do that I'm like well maybe that's how I
deal with it yeah you know like how come
I gota I
gotta empathize the way you do maybe
we're
different all right so now let's skip
the whole Open Mic thing and crafting
jokes oh yeah that's tough carak said
one day I will find the right words and
they will be
simple when do you know the joke is done
it's perfect you're H somebody that does
like really sharp like
Fast uh jokes well oh thanks so like
there there's somebody I don't know I
don't know who you see yourself in the
same school as like had you're you're
you're darker and faster than hbg I
think in terms of like just I don't know
the turns you take it very thanks I
appreciate it I think I got some nor
McDonald maybe that's right you know
little obviously Norm but uh Chris Rock
was huge for me Chris Ro old like 90s
Chris Rock was like I didn't know you
could do jokes like that I always love
George Carlin and Groucho Marx and Bill
Murray there's so many different types
of Comedy but uh when I saw the bigger
and Blacker bring the pain I was like oh
my God this like it hit me so that was
big and then Norm's just like the
funniest guy on the planet it so him him
being the smartest guy in the room but
acting dumb was great so uh yeah Chris
Rock has that way of cutting to the the
bullshit which I I mentioned earlier I
like that cutting through the bullshit
kind of style of Comedy because you kind
of go oh I'm not crazy that's what I
thought too I was too scared to say it
but I thought that and he's saying and a
room of people are laughing maybe I'm
not an idiot so that helped me so it's
observational but not Jerry s
observational it's like look going to
the darker thing like with great but I
like him too but seeing it doing it
about stuff like in your life Society
yeah race gender government politics all
that kind of stuff exctly exactly sex
human emotions jealousy whatever it is
that that's the good
stuff how' you feel when Norm passed
away ah that was a bummer because uh he
was you know what 61
and I just didn't see it coming and I
just I I watched so many hours of his
stuff and I I've met him and he he's
like he was like this comedic bar like
hey we got Norm you know there's so much
shit comedy then you see norm and you're
like this is next level this is Savant
type shit and then to lose him is like
ah Norm had 20 more years at least of
just content and content and thoughts
and his point of view and that's we'll
never get that that sucks
yeah there is something about artist
like Jimmy Hendricks dying too early
it's like you wonder what was next yeah
what was next but then part of it is
like um you know it all ends for all of
us and it's like walking away
early is
um it's kind of admirable it's almost
like I did a pretty good job yeah I'm uh
I'm I'm good with that and especially
the way he did which is not telling
anybody I know nine years his best
friends didn't even know and in this
world of like victimhood and I need
clicks and I need people to love me he
could have he got you know cancelled and
yelled at in trouble and he could have
pulled that cancer card and he never did
I mean the Integrity on this
motherfucker did you get a chance to
interact with him like what how how
often did you meet him I met him once at
the comedy Celler and we chatted for
five minutes and then he went on and did
the the Letterman set that he did he was
running the Letterman set and uh sweet
guy nice guy didn't know him that well
but I mean he's just brilliant and I
also love a brilliant guy who does
stupid stuff that's a fun fun little
combo there like silly guys who are
actually brilliant also you know like
Louis CK is a brilliant comic and he'll
do a a joke about farting on a kid and
you're like that's great that he still
finds farts funny and he's also this
comedic genius guy I like that and
doesn't really acknowledge the genius
yeah yeah that's yeah I like I like
smart people they're silly yes that's a
good combo like you said Elon is silly
yeah yeah that's great yeah CU we we
taught we teach kids like hey put that
down stop that quit cutting up quit
horsing around but maybe that's some
kind of sign of Brilliance there yeah
being like childlike and silly is is a
kind of wisdom I feel like those people
are way wiser than the people that no
offense to me wear a suit and take
themselves way too seriously
no but you got a spark in you little you
got a little uh what's the word not uh
elf imp little Imp in you give that a
goo you know about imp uh mischievous
it's like a little uh is that a a
talkling character imp yeah might an imp
is a European mythological being similar
to a fairy or a de are you call me a
fairy frequently no okay similar to a
fairy or a demon I feel like that's a
big leap big leap yeah that's not great
uh info bio there frequently described
in folklore and Superstition the word
may perhaps derive from the term imp
spell with a Y used to denote a young
grafted tree oh it's a little
mischievous you got a twinkle you're the
serious buttoned up guy but this there's
a twinkle there's a twinkle wow and the
audience can see the twinkle and that's
why you resonate I
think oh Sor right deep analysis by Mark
Norman psychological analysis okay but
then back to the crafting of the joke
you said Chris Rock and nor McDonald
like what for you um how do you know
when the joke is like done are there
some jokes that you like are proud of
like wow that that's uh that's well done
yeah yeah the joke is done it's a tough
question because there's so many
different kinds of jokes there's what we
call a chunk which is a big idea with a
bunch of jokes in the middle of it and
then a big Crescendo at the end or
there's a oneliner or there's a tag of a
joke that's also a joke
so the jokes come in different uh like I
have a joke where I say I met my girl in
that Jewish app what's that Jewish app
called uh PayPal
nice that's hell that's the reaction you
want from the the crowd but it's a fun
turn because you say your thing and then
I hit you with a misdirect and that's
what a joke is a joke is basically me
saying something that makes sense but
you didn't see it coming yeah and that's
a perfect example of that so uh that
joke took forever to figure out by the
way you know and uh you have to go
through different services like PayPal
what's funniest exactly and I figured
PayPal is funny because it has the word
pay in it yeah you know venmo it's also
not really a good word venmo PayPal it
just hits better yeah PayPal is funnier
somehow it's funnier somehow and that's
the beauty of Comedy there's a weird
little magic into it you can get
technical all day and formulaic but
there's still that little bit of a fairy
dust that you don't know why this is
funnier or dust imp dust yes with the
why okay so you know what joke is done
when it kills and it is a roundness to a
joke when you feel like this is buttoned
up this this is done here yeah is
Simplicity the right word there yeah is
it like you're chopping stuff away or
you adding stuff like what does it feel
like Simplicity is always the best angle
I mean you can get real high concept
with a joke and still make it work but
the simpler the better I saw uh Dave
Chappelle on stage once and Chris Rock
and de MRI Martin were in the back
watching in awe and Dave I can't
remember the joke but he said something
about sex or women and Demetri Martin
goes ah it's a little easy and Chris
Rock goes that's why it's good and I
remember hearing that as some young
comic like I'm getting this like you
know comedy lesson right here from these
two Titans and so that was fun simple is
key so the easy is okay that's such a
weird uh I I I think I remember um
reading or hearing Eminem say say
something about maybe the song Some shap
like one of the songs he's like I knew
it was going to be good because it got
like really repetitive and annoying very
quickly or something like that I mean
that's the the sort of the music
equivalent of um it's too easy like if
it's like super catchy as a musician you
might get very quickly bored of it or
like as you're creating it no it's too
it's too easy it's like there needs to
be some more complexity to but I like
complexity but the best guys who are the
ones who make complex shit look simple
like you ever heard that uh Ben Franklin
story where he's talking to his friend
his friend's like I'm gonna start a hat
store so he puts a sign out says hats
for sale $12 and and Ben Frank looks at
it goes uh well you don't need the $12
because you know all they need to know
is that you got hats for sale he's like
all right so he loses the $12 makes a
new sign hats for sale and he goes you
don't you don't really need for sale
because because it's a business people
can put that together so he just goes
all right he makes a new sign it says
hats and then Ben Franklin's like you
know you don't really need the word hat
you can just put a picture of a hat and
he made a new sign which is a picture of
a hat and like helped the business or
something that's like some old wies tale
or whatever but I think about that all
the time when I'm writing I thought this
was going to like there was no sign it
went like super like nistic that could
work
too uh what like as a comedian so I'm
I'm a fan of yours I enjoy I really
enjoy you in conversations like wow now
I'm getting nothing out of here I'm this
is all right I can't tell oh like
emotion you're tough not to read cold
inside I mean just the quickness you
have obviously you also a great stand up
comedian what's your favorite medium to
shine in so you have uh a podcast
yourself an excellent podcast MH um
thanks you're often a podcast guest yeah
um which is always fun to listen to how
you're going to deal with the different
people you're great on Rogan oh thanks
um what what what do you enjoy most
podcasts are great because you can you
can stretch out a little more you can
breathe a little you know with a standup
set I like to be like boom boom boom
boom boom but podcasts are great because
it's conversational so you can be it's
almost like you're being funny with your
friends whereas the stage is like a this
is a piece this is a
presentation uh but I think the the
podcast is great but you don't get the
reaction unless the host is laughing you
can't hear the guy in his car in New
Jersey driving to work going ah every
now then I'll read a comment like I spit
out my coffee when you said this and I'm
like but it's not immediate you want the
immediate so stand up will always be
number one but there's no better feeling
than killing in a room of people who
don't know who you are strangers you're
in the middle of nowhere you left your
wife at home you left your kids you left
your house you're in the middle of bum
fuck dickville and murdering for these
hillbilly nobody whatever it is and
they're slinging their beers and woo
cheering you on and they carry out and
you fuck some fat lady and you leave and
you get back to your hotel and you go
holy shit what was that no one will ever
know about it just lost in The Ether
that's the best feeling yeah killing an
obscurity as Bill Burr would
say yeah this one of the things that
sucks about giving
lectures like at University or giving
lectures in general is when you look
at uh the audience you know several
hundred students they all have a bored
look on their face yeah of course like
even like my my face now probably looks
bored but I'm actually excited to be
talking to you but there's something
about just uh there's something about a
comedy club maybe this the contagion of
laughter but like it gives people the
freedom to just laugh to like to remove
that facade of like you don't have to
you don't have to pretend like you don't
care like if you care you can show it
and have fun with it a lot probably
liquor is helps too yeah it helps for
sure but there is a especially and
that's why comedy I think is so popular
right now because HR is up our ass we're
scared of old tweets that might come
back to haunt us what did I say on that
interview uh even people at offices are
like I put something on Facebook in
1999 that was about fat tits that I
liked should I get rid of that even
people say like there's no cancel
whatever there is something in the air
right now and that wasn't there before
yeah it's the video I'm A Karen I got
caught a Trader Joe whatever it is this
people rat on each other now everybody's
tattle tailing because they want the
clicks it's a horrible Society we've
crafted
but standup comedy gets you to come out
and now people do it at stand-up shows
too sadly but it gets you to come out
and let that inhibition down like cuz
we're all human we've all had the fucked
up thoughts like man that guy fat as
shit it doesn't mean you hate the guy
doesn't mean you hate fat people doesn't
mean you're fat shaming but you can't
say that at the office you can't go Bob
you're fat as shit you'll get fired for
body shaming but at the club you go that
guy's fat as shit The Crowd Goes he is
fat as shit it's this weird cathartic
thing because all we do is Tamp shit
down it's kind of like you ever meet a
girl who's like all prim and proper in
the bedroom she's like put a lamp up my
ass ah you know whatever it is it's CU
we got to get it out we're all repressed
in some way so I guess what you're say
saying is uh comedy's
important yes callback all right well
played sir yeah what do you think about
Austin what do you think about the
comedy scene Austin we talk about LA and
New York what do you think about what
Joe's trying to create there so I I'll I
should say that the reason I moved to
Austin I have this dream of uh it
wouldn't be funny if it said this dream
of becoming a comedian oh
God an audience at least yeah that's
true you know how said you can hear the
music in the distance I you know I have
this dream around Robotics and
artificial intelligence whether it's a
company whether it's something else that
uh was just pulling me to do I actually
wanted to move to San Francisco and then
all my friends in San Francisco said no
it's the wrong place yeah to to uh it's
no it's at this time the the the
cynicism there is just not conducive to
like taking big leaps into the unknown
excited about the future kind of thing
and and Austin was that uh with um for
me in particular with Elon Musk but also
just the energy that everybody had
including Joe the excitement about the
future MH I don't I don't care if Austin
Burns to the ground and it actually just
a complete failure uh being excited
about the future seems to be like
optimism about the future seems to be
the thing uh that actually makes that
future happen makes a great future
happen so it's always cool for me to see
uh like Joe super excited about creating
like um a culture in Austin like a
making it a comedy Hub like I don't want
to overstate it but he I mean I think he
really believes is it'll be a very big
place for comedy in the United States in
general in the world and so just even
believing that that's powerful like you
start to make it you start to make it
happen that energy uh is there anyway so
but that's for me from just an outsider
watching uh the fun I should also
mention for less of an Outsider more
Insider in the martial arts World
partially probably because of Joe I'm
not sure like John Donar uh Gordon Ryan
the B Team all those folks those are
that might be gibberish to you but those
are like some of the greatest Grapplers
and martial artists of all time so it's
also becoming this Hub of martial arts
so the the whole thing is is just
beautiful anyway what uh what are your
thoughts about that scene well there's a
lot lot here a lot of things to
mentioned one I think Joe did do that to
a a degree you know like all these
people seora lives there now a lot of
comics liveed there he's opening clubs
other clubs are opening I think it's
happening that's the other thing is
people go everybody's moving to Austin
Austin's the new Hub and then they look
at their watch and they go five minutes
went by nothing changed it's going to
take years you know but everybody wants
it now now now um what awesome there's
no industry there you know there's no
Netflix whatever and you're like like
yeah I know but it it needs a minute you
can't just do this overnight so people
forget that so it could happen huge just
give it some time I mean he's opening a
club I went and saw it it's incredible
like it's so perfect for comedy it's
every detail it's incredible but uh so
it could happen still I do think where
there's a little biting off more than
they can chew with Austin because it's
not that big so and it's spread out I
mean yeah it's not big and and the the
infrastructure is not quite
to support it but it has a lot of uh me
I'm comparing for my from the tech side
for uh it has a lot of land to expand
into so it might become this helps like
you're basically establishing it's kind
of like in New York you're establishing
these whole neighborhoods and you have
the freedom to do that because there's a
lot of space on all sides yes okay so
that helps so again maybe some time uh I
do agree with this that that new hope
that's kind of buil into human beings of
like let's go to America let's go to
Utopia we even have it with space let's
go to Mars we got to see what's over
there and it's just red Dusty bullshit
but you still got to go so I I'm with
you on that about this new hope this new
land uh and I think that is beautiful
and I think there's a lot of haters I
think there's a lot of naysayers who
hate change who hate anything new and
then I think you got to go hey that
hurts that sucks but blow me dickas I'm
trying something you're a loser stop
hating on me I mean how many people hate
Elon Musk you know yeah it's hilarious I
mean there's uh some of the criticism on
Austin would be it's like a fad like a
lot of people are really are really
people are excited about Austin and
somehow that's like uh it's like when
Green Day became famous you no longer
want to be a fan of green day but to me
like that's uh Austin was already a cool
town like every comic five years ago was
like oh I I got Austin this weekend I
can't wait yeah so it already had a buzz
but some people think maybe the buzz was
the cool part the fact that it was like
this off the beaten path City and now I
get to visit it and then leave but I
think it could still be this comedy Tech
booming place it just will take some
time and people want it right now well
on the tech side it's uh it's already
there it's it's it's getting there very
fast so I mean elon's really pushing
that with the factory it's just like
huge number of people are moving there
with jobs like you're already starting
and then the opportunities to launch new
companies is just incredible I guess
it's not right now it's like within
months within a year that kind of thing
but like it's an opportunity to just
start to build shit in a new place and
it's cool it's kind of like you know go
to Mars it's like we get to start over
yeah and I like the Hope aspect I think
that's huge for people and uh I'm I'm
all for it I hope it works out I don't
know if it will but I don't know
anything about economies and City SC
planning and all that shit so it might
be too early to say but I hope it works
you still talking about Austin or Mars
Austin Mars is H there's nothing there
there's no vagina there there's no food
there there's no water there I don't
know it seems I get space travel I think
it's important but I I don't know Mars
is really going to move the needle
so what are your thoughts about Elon
Musk and SpaceX and launching Rockets
into space I think it's all good because
you could say hey we could just feed
everybody and I like yeah that's true by
the way these guys give a ton of money
to like philanthropy shit that nobody
cares about by the way you know it's
weird like he could feed the N Nigeria
and with pocket change of his and you're
like well maybe he has you know like I
heard Bill Gates gave back so much money
to save Six Million Lives yeah but
that's a reverse Holocaust by the way
that's pretty good what have you done
you're a barista so uh you know I I just
think uh I think space travel is good
because you learn about the place you're
living in from going to space it kind of
helps you learn about this more you
could say what's the point of going
there's nothing there but it it it does
help I think yeah doing difficult things
in the engineering space seems to be a
way to develop like as a as almost like
an accident as a side of effect of doing
a really difficult thing in a team of
brilliant people you develop things like
the internet and you could argue that
the internet maybe is not so good for
societ no I'm just kidding that's good
and bad yeah but but it's like a pull-up
you're trying to get your bicep going
but hey but before you know you got
decent forarms but you weren't working
on the forearms you wanted to buy but
you got the four and I think that's kind
of what space travel is I like how this
like pivoted into uh to a workout
routine advice trying to get an analogy
going here all right right they work
pretty well I'll take it all right what
are your thoughts about since I'm a
robotics person i'' be curious to see
like what
um do you think about the space at all
about first of all autonomous vehicles
with uh Tesla autopilot and uh
wayo self-driving car I'm not sure if
you're familiar with all the autonomous
vehicles and so on so those are robots
on Wheels and then there's also legged
robots so next time you're in Austin you
get to me some of the leged
robots uh been working on and I I find
those kind of um a fascinating way to
explore the nature of intelligence in
our computers but also explore our own
intelligence and also explore our own um
like what makes us connect to other
living beings whether it's dogs cats or
other humans like there's some magic
there that's beyond just intelligence
and I like when I have the robot dog
there's some aspect to it that I don't
know brings me joy in a way that a dog
does in a way that a good friend does
yeah that's interesting and I'm not sure
if that's some kind of anthropomorphism
like where I'm projecting right my hopes
for this what this thing is but maybe a
little that but it's kind of built in I
mean it's just a source of Joy maybe it
it's connected to the fact that there's
just a a loneliness within all of us MH
within me and it's just nice to have
other things in your life that move that
recognize you that kind of thing I mean
I I suppose it's nice to even just have
a plant yeah it is plant goes a long way
you see a guy with plants in his
apartment it changes the apartment
because they're alive you got to water
them you got to put sun on them so yeah
I think there's something there and I
think you can see people's reactions
when you show them advanced technology
like these dog robots or these robots
that dance and shit people are like what
the fuck like it hits home in some way
whether it's fear or or you want to fuck
him clearly whatever it is but it does
connect with you in some way so uh I'm
with you and I think this this is why I
don't think robots will take over you
always say that robot they're making
them too Advan they're going to wipe us
out blah blah
blah if robots get at human
emotions that is scary because they
could they could get mad at us and kill
us and they're stronger and they don't
need sleep they don't need food they
don't need water
they don't get jealous they don't you
know but if they have emotions then I
think we can dominate them because who's
had emotion who knows emotions better
than us we've got thousands of years of
evolutionary emotional bullshit we can
go hey robot I heard you uh your wife
fucked that Black and Decker huh they're
going to crumble we can bully them
emotionally manipulate robots yes that's
when we'll
win right now they could kill us they
could just we'd all die then we shoot
them back bing bing bing bing that's no
good but if they do get emotions then we
can go hey you look like hell what is
that a rusty bolt hey you're dropping
some oil there you know you loser I
think we can win if we if they do get
emotions this this goes back to your
father being able to undercut you with a
single word you're right yeah so we're
the creators of the robots and then the
robots will just you you'll say the the
exact thing yeah where the robot would
be like that's son of a bitch and then
he goes back to his hole and just sits
there miserable right yeah Hardware
looks more like to me he can't get it up
yada yada yada yeah but I'm not worried
about robots and I think self what do
you think about the self-driving cars is
that just wiping out the horse and buggy
isn't that just progression of
Technology yeah so I don't know if
you've driven in a Tesla for example I
have I wrote in the uh the past drive it
yeah there's several stages in that I
think it's the problem is way harder
than people realize and for quite a
while it'll just make driving more
pleasant it'll make it less stressful
it'll take over some of the boring bits
for you it'll make it easier like
there's something that happens actually
when the car is driving for you in the
following way like it's it's staying in
the lane it's keeping distance to the
car in front of you maybe it's changing
lanes it allows you to relax a little
bit like you become you still have to be
alert but you become like a passenger
and you get to like take in the world I
mean somehow that's more relaxing
without making you necess
neily like bored more it it's energizes
you more so I just think it makes the
Driving Experience more pleasant but
when you actually fully autom make cars
when you can just completely tune out
and start reading a book or go to sleep
that might
change uh Society like in ways we don't
even understand because you'll
have I mean the it'll probably change
the nature of Roads because the cars cuz
now you can be super productive yeah ah
and so it no longer quite matters to you
as much how long it takes to get from
point A to point B because you're not
wasting that time you're just continue
working yeah uh it's like public transit
that comes to you exactly and so they
there will be maybe less roads and
bigger roads and it will just change the
nature of how we get from point A to
point B I think you're right but that
then couple that also with the fact that
we seem to be more and more comfortable
existing in the digital world
yeah so like maybe we won't want to go
outside more and more we'll just
interact with each other virtually and I
don't mean Zoom meetings I mean just in
other ways that's uh that's that's more
fulfilling than a zoom meeting there's
but then maybe not because like there's
something deeply uncompelling about
about Zoom meetings like podcasts that
are
remote unless they're super information
dense at least to me as a podcast fan
kind of suck they suck there's no
connect it goes back to the dog thing
with the zoom there's no connection yeah
and we're not you know I I don't
understand why they we're not even
making eye contact no but it's something
there it's in the room there's
pheromones and that's like out of our
understanding probably just some kind of
weird biological you know you ever have
Cheerios in a bowl the Cheerios tend to
they tend to go together you see a
cluster of Cheerios they're never really
hanging out on the other side and that's
kind of how people are in in real life I
wonder what the physics of that is so
they they come together and they stick
it's something with molecules yeah I
don't I can't remember what it was but
it was fascinating I think that's how
people are and I think you try to write
a TV show or or craft a movie with your
team zoom not nothing there it's like
phone sex versus
penetration one day you'll learn that I
I I know nothing of either the I look
forward because I think there's a phone
sex Netflix documentary that yeah
there's a show or something like that
that uh is really popular that I want to
go watch so at least I can learn about
that okay I could send you some links
that really on the internet yeah yeah
yeah but yeah self-driving car I think
it's just inevitable it's coming and
these truckers are going to have to
figure something
out yeah I mean that's that's an under
understood industry actually because
there's not uh there's a lot of trucking
jobs and and people don't want to well
people don't want to actually take them
anymore because it's such difficult job
so it won't have or a lot of people
believe it won't have as big of a
negative impact as folks anticipate oh
good there'll be other automation I
think they'll have a huge impact yeah
for sure I mean you already see it in
McDonald's you go to the beep beep why
do you want to get yelled at by the
heavy set woman of color you know for
making a bad order when you can just you
know hit the
screen but those interactions I think
are human I mean that's part of life so
it it is scary taking away everything
how long till we're not fucking that's
common too yeah then there's going to
have two two types of people are you a
fuck in real life or you a digital fuck
person I'm a digital I like real fucking
sorry we can't date that's coming well
there's also the uh the reproduction
side of sex which is like with genetic
engineering you'll be able to specify a
little bit of details I talked to uh
Jamie mutzel about that like where you
can
um specify like what you know uh
it it'll start with like I want my child
not to have like a high likelihood of
diabetes or something like that and then
you get to specify like intelligence you
get to specify those kinds of parameters
until you're like basically trying to
create a perfect human and you lose some
of the magic of the flaws that make us
who we are yes and you know I I'm pretty
sure in the full lineup of
humans like the so let let me uh give
you some information
break it down I'm sure I'm sure you
researched uh this thoroughly but uh a
uh a male of the human species of the
homo sapien M uh produces 500 billion uh
sperm cells in a lifetime so that's all
uh some more than
others that's
all uniquely genetically unique humans
that you could produce so even across
those 500 billion you can select H so
what do you mean like aort some or no
you can choose which of them you want I
mean just imagine all the Gen genetic
possibilities that are there like all
the possible like you won the race yes
uh that shocking this all the 500
billion you have to imagine what the
competition was oh just tards all day
long handicap well so it's not actually
the the fastest sperm or like it's I I
think a lot of his timing and luck is
what it seems like there's actual papers
on this and I've actually been reading
them I hope so so it's not just like the
fastest sperm to the egg okay there's a
timing thing so you're were just lucky
all right I believe that so it's
interesting to think about like once
you're able to
specify some parameters of what your
child is like how that changes the
nature of
um even just like
the intimacy of two humans getting
together and making creating together a
child yeah I mean CH it changes it it's
it's almost like a I don't know it
becomes like a
factory line of some kind if you don't
meet naturally yeah if you don't meet
naturally and then you don't and you get
get to optimize your child then it's
yeah then it's some like you have to
consider utilitarian type of things like
what's good for society and it'll
probably be regulation about what kind
of children you can have or not like
your child cannot have an IQ below this
or above this or something like that
your child cannot we already kind of do
that with you know VIP clubs like ah
you're kind of ugly or women go hey he's
not tall enough we kind of do it a
little yeah especially sexually yeah we
do can't get on the roller coaster if
you're this short whatever it is you
know we do it in some capacity but here
this would be like
fully transparent and to a degree that
uh it's hard to imagine like the the way
we currently do it you can at least get
around it yes you can at least like
trick your way onto the roller coaster
even if you're short right or the fat
guy can get rich so he can get laid you
know there's other
ways at the risk of asking the totally
wrong person this question uh what
advice would you give to young people
today in high school and college about
how to um have a successful career or
career they're they're proud of or maybe
have a life that they're proud of oo
well first of all you got to be you got
to want a life you're proud of not
everybody has any Integrity people just
a lot of people just want short money I
want to feel good look good right now I
want to do Molly boom I'll feel good you
know but you should space it out you
should it's almost like saving money so
you can use it later nobody wants to
save money what do they say like 11% of
America actually has money saved $1,000
or some shit it's wildly low everybody
wants it now now what do you call
immediate gratification I think the key
to happiness and satisfaction is working
for something even if it's uh it's like
a baby if you could have a baby in five
minutes if a woman you got you jizzed in
her and she had a baby five minutes boom
newborn healthy I think he'd be more
likely to to throw it away if you could
make it that quick it's the fact that
you spent nine months the back breaking
the labor the lactating The Ripped
placenta and the Heyman or whatever the
fuck that's what makes you love it and I
think it's the same with comedy or or
making money or whatever look at these
kids who who like child stars they all
become heroin addicts at like 22 because
they've just their sensors are burned
out they're pleasure sensors you didn't
have to earn it I think earning it is a
big part of life and uh always try to do
better try to do more try to learn new
things hey I'm bored I life sucks Life
play the piano then you Chooch but you
you won't do it because it takes effort
and and failure and all that but that's
the good part and I know it's hard to
see so I think that's uh that's a good
good key to life is work hard at
something you care about and then love
the result the the hard work the journey
is actually way more important than just
getting something everybody to go on
Amazon I got a package then you feel
good for 10 seconds and all right let's
go on Amazon again and then you're just
it's just a dumb cycle of you being
disgusting and gluttonous so work for it
everybody wants to take steroids and
just boop I'm buff why' you point at me
I'm Russian or what well I saw the The
Icarus yeah but no I'm not saying you're
on roids I'm just you'd be way bigger
but uh I'm just saying you know work for
something and then I would also Young
people eat shit early eat shit early I
know a guy who kind of got cancelled or
whatever and he had an out early but he
tried to get by and he tried to ride it
and it all came crumbling down but if he
had eaten it early like yeah I fucked up
I did that whatever it was he would have
he would have just kind of been been
shit on for a month and then it would
have gone away but now it's his whole
identity and that sucks so eat shit
early and I know it's hard to see what
do you mean early I'm in the present but
look ahead look back this time will pass
we look at high school high school is
the biggest thing in our lives oh my God
this exam Suzie Q hates me the football
player beat me up oh I'll never recover
now you don't even think about high
school it's just a blip in your dumb
life you know and that's what this is
now this will just be a blip so remember
that and work towards something and uh
work hard and care about the result if
the result isn't good try it again and
failure is not always bad failure look
at failure is this end all be all my
life's over I failed but failure is
really just learning so that's something
so in summary eat shit early and eat
shit often yes all right Mark Norman eat
s that's the escalated quickly all right
I have a list of random questions for
you um what activities make you lose
track of time oh
just um have that go into that zone you
have this happiness contentment about
you that you just truly enjoy yeah I
think uh good conversation like I'll sit
at the comedy seller with friends maybe
a little whisky flowing and when you're
really just vibing and and inhib inhib
in inhabit you can do it what is it
inhibited inhibited uninhibited
uninhibited when you're just vibing
you're uninhibited you're saying crazy
shit and you're laughing and you're not
worried am I seeming cool right now am I
seeming likable when you're just you
100% % and it's all coming out of you
and then they're saying stuff and you go
back and forth and you feel that
excitement oh they're talking but I want
to say my thing and you know you get all
keyed up I love that and and I look at
my watch I'm like fuck it's three in the
morning this we've been talking for five
hours so I love that that makes the time
fly by also I bought a speaking of
self-driving cars I bought a 1973
BMW car and it's classic and it's stick
shift and it's Grizzly and gritty and
Rusty and it's a bucket of bolts but I
love driving it bucket of bolts you and
Tom waights are poets have you uh have
you taken like a long trip inwhere like
road trip in your life or with this BMW
not with this it's pretty new but I will
it's it's a new 197 yeah yeah it's new
to me and it just it it it goes in the
phase of everything we're doing now
everything is digital everything is
automated everything is hands off
everything is delivered and this is the
most Hands-On thing in the world and I
am dialed in man I got the tachometer I
keep an eye on that oh I made I put the
wrong gear in shit oh it's about to
stall put some gas put some clutch and
it's all just brain power and and and
staying in focus and all that and it's
the opposite of tweeting and texting and
uh watching porn or whatever so I almost
needed that in my life so I bought this
car just to have this little
exercise I hope you don't mind that I'm
just trying out random questions I wrote
on you that are completely they're like
completely insane I'm a guinea pig jizz
in my face bring it on
baby this would be edited down to five
minutes oh if everyone on Earth
disappeared and it was just you left
what what would your days look like what
would you do that's tough because uh I'm
already an introvert and I try to avoid
people mostly like I I like a one-on-one
but uh crowds and all that it's tough so
so basically unchanged yeah that's what
I was going to say but then that's the
irony is I would be so sad and not talk
to anybody so it's this weird uh
Bittersweet thing but I don't know what
I would do man I guess it's kind of like
when you're hung over you just go into
the Primal survival mode I got to get
food I need water I'm horny jerk off you
know you just go you're you're not like
playing the piano or or painting or at
the gym so I think I would just go in
urges man Primal urges find food store
food am I safe make weapons build a
shelter that I can't get attacked in I
would go all survival mode and then once
I maybe realize if I was safe or not
there's no wild roaming dogs I would
start
exploring and uh you know maybe somehow
get a vehicle and I would try to expand
and that would be it and I maybe had
Journal exploring to what to to try to
find new experiences new new life if
there's other maybe there is another guy
out there oh always the there's the
possibility yeah hope hope and then
maybe there's a better place I could
live let's find that and then moving on
maybe there's more food over here so
yeah the hope would drive me but it
would be Bleak and sad and horrible also
so what you're saying is you really want
other people to be there so you can hide
from them as an yes yes well said all
right what uh what's an item on your
bucket list that you haven't done yet
think about something you'd be very
upset if you died and you haven't done
well I'm terrified of having kids you
know just cuz I'm a child myself and I'm
I'm selfish and lazy in a way so kids
are like this is your whole life now
this is it you got to not let this thing
die you got to love it you got to raise
it so kids scare the shit out of me but
I also feel like if I don't have them
I'll I'll I'll regret it well you've
seen so many people like you who are
fundamentally Changed by kids like like
it's a
source it's it's a source of like a deep
source of happiness even though you
didn't anticipate it yeah so you like
you penciled it into your bucket yes yes
you're it might be on there okay you
have you want kids yeah well I want kids
I want to get married um I want to have
kids I kind of
u i I don't like choice so in the
following way like I I appreciate the
value of scarcity and the power of
scarcity like I don't like the the
modern dating culture it's not some
religious thing whatever I just like one
girl for a long time uh or at least
swinging for that always like swinging
for the fences you could be swinging
right now I mean you're that's a
different use of the word swinging sure
sure but I'm saying you could be you
look great you're handsome muscular you
you get the job done so I feel like you
wouldn't leave without an orgasm on her
yeah I just like to you know about
furries I like to dress up as animals
and and I just have trouble finding
others who like they're out there I
could show you some chat rooms you're
you're also my coach for the
okay uh what are you most afraid
of I guess on unlived life uh I I'm a
I'm was a big fan growing up of like
wild guys you know like these Teddy
Roosevelts who would go out and hunt
lions and uh like bar fighting guys I
was obsessed with the Hunter S Thompson
types and look this is what I love about
uh guys like who's a good example like
Hemingway Hemingway was the manliest guy
he had the rifle and the elephant gun
and the whiskey and the riding and the
women and the fist fights but people
forget it the other side of that coin is
I'm sure he was in a lot of hotel rooms
weeping I'm sure he was lonely as fuck
I'm sure he had some Wicked hangovers I
mean he killed himself for Christ's sake
so obviously he was dealing with
something so the key to me is having
this adventurous life living to the
fullest doing crazy shit scaring
yourself but also not killing yourself
like also not hating cuz I used to party
a lot hard I used to bang a lot of gals
and this the flip side is like this girl
hates you now or you got herpes or
you're hung over or your mom is like
where where are you you never call me
anymore and you're like oh my mom I let
let ties go with my mom I got to connect
so there's horrible there's a horrible
side of the party animal the Keith
Richards we don't see is not pretty I
mean he's already weird looking but he's
partying he's smoking he's living but
there's another side of that coin and I
think the key to life is living that
fucking crazy awesome badass life and
also having
some you know meaning and and a little
bit of uh what's the word not just not
killing yourself not going sad not being
depressed there's a medium there a sweet
spot does that make sense yeah yeah yeah
so taking big leaps and uh Heming way
grabbing Life by the balls but at the
same time not crushing the balls that
metaphor work at all perfect look evil
coneval we all know him what a badass
Fearless oh man what a cool dude he's
got balls of steel but he's also lived
like the back half of his life in a
fucking uh you know Barka lounger where
his legs were made a steel and he
couldn't see straight and his dick
didn't work so you know what I mean you
got to have a balance but you still want
the balance I'm willing to take a little
bit of shit for a little bit of fun but
you don't want to go too hard cuz you
got to still risk it I mean Hunters
Thompson it didn't n well but it's quite
a ride quite a
ride what small act of kindness were you
once shown that you will never
forget wow that's a great
question you're you're you're I just
wrote These for the the guinea pig
you're the guinea P that's great that's
keeper this is where like workshopping
questions here all right I'll take it
now now you're open biking yeah this is
your version
um let's see there's a couple ladies in
high school who were kind enough to hand
job me that was nice which I really
appre I don't think women know how much
that means to us you know women are like
ah I'm not a piece of meat or whatever
and you're like I know but if you just
gave me a hand job yeah I would it would
make my world it's like telling a kid
he's smart or loved see most people
mention like a math teacher Middle
School that that would inspired them to
get into science you you it's give a
shout out to the well that's part of
that's not the nicest but I'm just just
saying that goes a long way all right uh
let's see kindness that's a great
question H I want to give you a good
answer I uh I got lost when I was like
six I was was walking around my dad and
I zoned out and went away and next thing
you know I don't know where I am I'm in
a neighborhood this old guy finds me
crying on a lawn somewhere and he goes
uh C come inside and he tried to call my
parents and nothing came of it
eventually they found me after like 9
hours cops were there the FBI's out
there fucking helicopters and I guess
you know that's nice this old guy took
me in for a couple hours and just sat me
down and kept me safe that's something
yeah oh how about enus my trans Vesti
Nanny very
kind he uh did you hear about this no
okay we had this transvesti nanny he was
like a drag queen but it was in the 90s
so it was weird it was new and uh my
bike got stole
and he you know my parents like he what
are you going to do they're poor kids
you know and he was like fuck it let's
we're going to go get that bike and I
was like this guy's in a wig at high
heels big black guy and I'm like uh ah
what are you gonna do you know it's gone
and he's like no we're going to go get
it so we got in the van and drove around
my neighborhood saw the kids fucking
with the bike you know five Street
toughs and uh he goes all right you want
to come out or should I just do this and
I was like you do it I'm terrified what
are you crazy and he got out of the van
in full you know heels and wig and he
went up to these guys and they went off
oh my God look at this fucking guy homo
faggot all this shit you know it's the
90s and he just stared at him long
enough to where they were kind of like
all right well I guess we're going to
fight you now and he goes uh that's not
your bike and they go what are you going
to do about it and he puts his hand on
the middle of the bike and they didn't
do anything and he just picked it up and
said that's what I thought put the bike
over shoulder slid the van door open
threw the bike in and we drove
off somebody stuck up for you yeah and
in know I mean he could have got I mean
they they're tools they could have
fucking tuned him up two
seconds that actually like takes courage
oh yeah real courage and then that the
the the reason you do an act like that
is that makes a kid like you feel like
there's somebody on your side that's
powerful someone on your side is big is
big that goes a long
way especially when they have the risk
of getting their ass kicked or their job
taken away or whatever it is now we're
going to get uh philosophical maybe a
little bit
emotional would you rather lose all your
old memories or never be able to make
new
ones it's a tough one but I'd go easy
answer make new ones but don't you think
all the shitty things that happened to
you kind of oh so my hard drive is wiped
clean it's
not is it memories or is it how every
memory affected me too I mean this is a
very what do they go hand in hand I I
think the reality about memories is you
replay them often you go back to them
even when you're not aware of it you
really go you go back often like that um
and they change you change them too yeah
you Chang them to suit your
understanding of the world yes and so
uh the the dark view you have both the
hope and the cynicism you have about the
world is so deeply grounded in the um in
the memories that you're basically I
would say if you erase all
memories I think you're really starting
over with maybe the wisdom of how the
world works but not your so much your
personality is gone you would
really um I it'd be interesting how your
comedy would change maybe you would have
a good sense of timing you would have a
good sense of like the writing process
maybe mhm but like no you're making some
good points but let me ask you this
let's say I go to Lake Cuomo with my
girlfriend now like I wipe the memory or
I keep my old memories let's say I go to
you know the Tuscany with the lady yeah
I just won't remember that yeah but you
get to experience it in the moment okay
you get to enjoy it can I look at a
photo of it
yes but I was what the hell is this yeah
exactly oh fascinating it's exactly the
rules are pretty simple I think everyone
knows how the rules go so but you you
would uh yeah so what uh well I was
going to say start new ones but then I
realized I wouldn't be who I was without
them that's what you're saying so I
guess I'd keep them because I am 38 so
I've gotten a good chunk out of life
yeah and let's be honest how many years
do you have left I know right I got AIDS
is it better to have loved okay this
question is ridiculous is it better to
have loved and lost or to have never
loved at all the the it sounds cliche
but there's a question definitely better
to loss so you enjoy the ups and downs
they're all yeah that's what's that's
life for Sun and Rain
baby I kind of like both the whole thing
the the loss every time you lose
something it really makes you distinctly
realize how much valued it yes like am I
when I'm
sad like when I'm feeling
alone and I'm sitting there alone at
home and I wish I could hang out with
somebody that's like a realization how
awesome people are yeah so it's like the
missing the yeah uh we don't have a lot
of that in life anymore because we can
have anything we want immediately so the
missing has gone away which again drives
down the Joy of having it so uh I uh I
think you're right you need both uh so
like you said you have a condition that
a terminal condition not much many years
left do you think about your mortality
you think about
that all day every day are you
afraid not afraid because it's
inevitable so it's more like what how we
going to handle this it's like the
winner is coming let's stock up on some
fucking nuts but the existential nature
of it like the fact that this rid ends
like what the hell are you doing any of
this for like cuz it you're satisfaction
happiness short term but like the that
there is a presumption there that it
kind of goes on forever I think if you
truly think about the fact that it
ends um your brain almost shuts shuts it
down yeah there's some kind of like
protective like uh switch that just goes
off I mean that's why the
stoics you know encourage people to
meditate on death cuz it somehow
reorganizes your priorities it helps you
like holy shit this ends make the most
of the day yes it's just a nice thing
but still you can't quite comprehend the
thing ends uh little things too you know
people go like oh we got a layover
between our flights it's an hour what
are we going to do for an hour it's like
what do you mean what are you going to
do for an hour you're GNA kill an let's
kill how we going to kill this hour this
is part of your life you're just trying
to get rid of it you're just trying to
kill it that that always blew my mind
like hey fuck it let's go hit the the
airport bar let's get a you know a candy
bar something anything with bar but uh
it's just you got to live I hate this
like how are we going to burn oh the the
bar done open for 15 minutes what are we
going to do well we got 15 minutes we
got the world is our oyster yeah make
the most of it and like the like you
said in modern day actually the boredom
is a gift like the when you're waiting
for something that's that's that's a
gift you get to be with your thoughts
yeah th those are the same thoughts
you'll have when you're on your deathbed
there won't be
a uh you won't be scrolling Tik Tok on
your deathbed I hope not Jesus you'll be
a well actually maybe you would be what
a sad existence because it would be a
good uh like content creators would be
like oo I'm dying this would be good
content yeah I want to be able to sure
film the exact moment it goes like last
words I wonder what my last words will
be be a good way to like end the the
account with a bang yep I like that well
you know you ever seen that Meme where
the old guy in bed goes I wish I had
tweeted more you know and then he dies
it's so true could be the future uh what
do you think is the meaning of
life I don't think there is one
everybody always throws that out there
there isn't a meaning I think we're here
we're lucky to be here I think there's
no afterlife there's no Heaven that's
that's all shit we tell ourselves to
feel better and I think you got to just
it's like saying what is the meaning of
this uh food I made well it's just you
enjoy the food you try to get the most
out of it you you built the food you you
prepared it so just get what you can out
of it don't
die and try to make it last as long as
possible yeah but you look at Earth it's
like 4 billion years old and uh life
started early on like like simple cell
bacteria life like a 1 billion years in
and then it started like having lots of
uh aggressive interaction eventually
there's predator and prey and there's
sex lots of sex lots of sex lots of
violence oh yeah uh and then you know
through natural selection there's just a
whole evolutionary process of of animals
that have loved and lost and murdered
and gotten murdered and all that kind of
stuff and it's somehow L the human
civilization we're super busy trying to
create things and creating beautiful art
creating beautiful comedy yeah um just
always creating something you it feels
like it's tending towards something like
it's it's a not dying if you die
tomorrow you still have all these hours
of PODS so it's kind of you think you're
cheating death in a subconscious way I
think right you know who Ernest Becker
is and I've heard the name um it's book
called denal of death this idea that oh
yeah that uh if you don't acknowledge
books on my
shelf girls love it like dski uh no I'm
just I'm saying you want to bring Toll
story D Russian literature it's the back
to Norm it's good to bring to uh cuz cuz
uh no American has read any Russian
literature but they all appreciate it if
you bring it and it's not like they're
going to ask you any legitimate
questions because they haven't read it
so you can always pretend like you've
read it so it's a little dense can we
get a shorten version Cliff Notes yes or
make a movie with uh you know Ben
Stiller that I that I can just go oh
this is based on what is it uh life and
death no what's the one war in peace war
in peace yeah yeah yeah so Ernest
Becker's Theory and there's this whole
Terror management theory that basically
says that like our Terror of death our
fear of death is one of the central
creative forces The Human Condition it's
the reason we're trying to yeah cheat
death we're trying to uh delude oursel
that somehow we can become immortal
through our art it's why you've uploaded
your special to YouTube cuz you think
you think your special will outlive all
of human civilization you think YouTube
will outlive all of human civilization
that can go away tomorrow that can go
away tomorrow all of this can go away so
I'm truly grateful Mr Mark Norman that
you would spend your uh very valuable
time with me today even though it could
all go away this could be the the last
day of our lives and won't you be quite
upset this is how you spent it ah yeah
and you're a hotel room what am I you're
like Harvey Weinstein here you led me up
and now I feel fucked
just wait what we uh have ready for you
after the podcast is over all right
brother thanks so much for talking today
thank you it was great
comedy thanks for listening to this
conversation with Mark Norman to support
this podcast please check out our
sponsors in the description and now let
me leave you with some words from Mark
Norman himself on his Twitter which you
should definitely follow because it's
hilarious the worst thing about getting
Omicron for Christmas is you know it was
gifted thank you for listening and hope
to see you next time